Why is Tiger Woods so classless?

[InmanRoshi]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

[theogt]

There are good analogies and bad analogies.

[Doomsday]

Tiger isnt playing against other players he is playing against the course. But I do think you should get a prize for stupid post of the day.

[ajk23az]

There are good analogies and bad analogies.

And this is BY FAR the latter of the 2.

A lot of the professional golfers dont even look at the leaderboard if they think they are close to the top.

[InmanRoshi]

Tiger isnt playing against other players he is playing against the course. But I do think you should get a prize for stupi.d post of the day.

I've never played competitive golf, but I'm pretty sure the goal is to have a lower stroke total than your competitors. I don't believe they hand out money prizes in the PGA for having your "personal best' day on on that particular course.

[Royal Laegotti]

Tiger isnt playing against other players he is playing against the course. But I do think you should get a prize for stupid post of the day.


Really, do they award the course a trophy if it beats Tiger??;)

[D-TownRadio]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? Is it because he wants to show up the other players?
HAHAHAHAHA I have never heard anything dumber then this!!! You have to be kidding me!?!?!? You must not be a golfer because in golf it isn't all on one game you add up your scores throughout the tourney and thats how ya win so you are not supposed to stop trying and also you are not playing one on one there are lots of players and you don't get to see how well everyone is doing all the time and finally in golf the gam can ghange in a matter of minutes where as football when you have a 40 point lead and are place to make another 3 there is no need to go for it on 4th down just to get another 7. It was classless and you my friend are not to bright... LOL stupid people make me laugh.

[ajk23az]

I've never played competitive golf, but I'm pretty sure the goal is to have a lower stroke total than your competitors.

I actually have attend the San Diego Golf Academy, a 2 year associates degree school where they teach you to run/manage a golf course and how to play better mentally and physically. Trust me, you aren't playing against your competitors and if you are, you are going to most likely lose. You are playing solely against the golf course.

[theogt]

I've never played competitive golf, but I'm pretty sure the goal is to have a lower stroke total than your competitors. I don't believe they hand out money prizes in the PGA for having your "personal best' day on on that particular course.Yes, intentionally shanking a drive is very much similar to going for it on 4th & 2, up by 38 points in the 4th quarter.

IR, you're a smart guy, but this is a really dumb thread.

[Dallas]

I honestly can't believe IR started this thread.

Ouch ! :eek:

[Doomsday]

Really, do they award the course a trophy if it beats Tiger??;)

LOL, yea but it hasnt happened yet.

[InmanRoshi]

HAHAHAHAHA I have never heard anything dumber then this!!! You have to be kidding me!?!?!? You must not be a golfer because in golf it isn't all on one game you add up your scores throughout the tourney and thats how ya win so you are not supposed to stop trying and also you are not playing one on one there are lots of players and you don't get to see how well everyone is doing all the time and finally in golf the gam can ghange in a matter of minutes where as football when you have a 40 point lead and are place to make another 3 there is no need to go for it on 4th down just to get another 7. It was classless and you my friend are not to bright... LOL stupid people make me laugh.

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point must be trying to show up your opponent because it really serves no other purpose other than some people think a competitor should give it their all at all times

[CaptainAmerica]

I agree with your point, but I don't think golf is a good comparison. A sport that is timed like basketball is a better comparison than a sport like, tennis, golf or baseball that doesn't have a clock. The clock has a lot to say about whether a team has a realistic chance of coming back to win.

Also, Jordan sat the bench in many games when his team had a big lead.

[ajk23az]

Really, do they award the course a trophy if it beats Tiger??;)

I saw this thread and I had to come back.

I for some reason would not doubt that if Tiger shot a 80+ at a course, the employees would put up a poster or something of the kind that "Tiger shot and 80 here."

:banghead:

[InmanRoshi]

Yes, intentionally shanking a drive is very much similar to going for it on 4th & 2, up by 38 points in the 4th quarter.

IR, you're a smart guy, but this is a really dumb thread.

I didn't say purposely shanking a drive ... I said going for birdie on the final hole when you already have a 12 stroke lead. Your analogy is stupid.

[D-TownRadio]

hy in nascar when Jeff has the lead why doesn't he just pull over and rest for a few seconds... LOL

[ajk23az]

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point is clearly trying to show up your opponent

A lot of players who have a 12 stroke lead dont try to birdie the last hole. They play conservatively and try to hit the middle of the fairway, get on the green in regulation, and lag the ball up to the hole and have a really easy putt for the win.

[ajk23az]

hy in nascar when Jeff has the lead why doesn't he just pull over and rest for a few seconds... LOL

Actually it should be Jimmie J. :D

[theogt]

I didn't say purposely shanking a drive ... I said going for birdie on the final hole when you already have a 12 stroke lead. Your analogy is stupid.What's the difference between intentionally shanking a drive and intentionally shanking a putt?

Also, part of the purpose of running out the clock by only rushing is to END the game quickly. How would taking more strokes end the tournament more quickly?

Again, stupid analogy. Give it up.

[Zman5]

Hey,everyone is allowed a mulligan. I'd recommend IR take one.

[InmanRoshi]

What's the difference between intentionally shanking a drive and intentionally shanking a putt

I don't know ... you tell me. If Tiger has a shot at birdie at the final hole and has a 12 stroke lead, should he purposely shank the final putt to keep the rest of the golfers from looking bad? I happen to think that a (highly paid) competitor should try his best at all times? Some people think that other people's feelings and their self esteem are more important. What if sinking that final putt made Mickelson cry or not feel good about himself? Maybe that's why he's fat and has manboobs .. he's an emotional eater. He's going to die an early death from heart disease, and it's all Tiger's fault.



Also, part of the purpose of running out the score by only rushing is to END the game quickly.

What if the opponent can't stop your running game because they're worn down at the end of thegame, and you're immasculating them by pushing them backwards and collecting 8-12 yard per carry? It may embarrass them if you keep running the ball. And if the entire objective at that point of the game is to keep the clock running, why is Gibbs throwing and attempting onside kicks? Kind of defeats the purpose.

[D-TownRadio]

I saw this thread and I had to come back.

I for some reason would not doubt that if Tiger shot a 80+ at a course, the employees would put up a poster or something of the kind that "Tiger shot and 80 here."

:banghead:
What? Shot an 80+? On what course? Maybe when he was 3... The point in golf is to have the lowest score! so no he never runs up the score and as far as basketball goes YOU HAVE TO KEEP SCORING! if you just stand around with the ball to long you have to give it to the other team! Football you can let the time run out tke the 3 instead of going for it when you are up 40 and the other team has no chance. No matter how hard you try you can not make this into a good thing it was classless and just makes them look even more guilty as cheaters because they need to defend them selves like this. And don't give me that stuff that well they are still winning without the tapes because now they have Stallworth Welker and Moss! and thats just the O come on people they are skum.

[theogt]

I don't know ... you tell me. If Tiger has a shot at birdie at the final hole and has a 12 stroke lead, should he purposely shank the final putt to keep the rest of the golfers from looking bad. I happen to think that a (highly paid) competitor should try his best at all times. Some people think that other people's feelings and their self esteem is more important.You seem to be missing the point. The stupidity in him intentionally shanking the putt is what makes the analogy dumb.

[ajk23az]

What? Shot an 80+? On what course? Maybe when he was 3... The point in golf is to have the lowest score! so no he never runs up the score and as far as basketball goes YOU HAVE TO KEEP SCORING! if you just stand around with the ball to long you have to give it to the other team! Football you can let the time run out tke the 3 instead of going for it when you are up 40 and the other team has no chance. No matter how hard you try you can not make this into a good thing it was classless and just makes them look even more guilty as cheaters because they need to defend them selves like this. And don't give me that stuff that well they are still winning without the tapes because now they have Stallworth Welker and Moss! and thats just the O come on people they are skum.

Ummmmmm, i actually have no idea what you are talking about.

Me. I have been arguing all night it has been classless of the Pats.

And please note the "ifs" in my post.

Im really confused by you here.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[D-TownRadio]

I don't know ... you tell me. If Tiger has a shot at birdie at the final hole and has a 12 stroke lead, should he purposely shank the final putt to keep the rest of the golfers from looking bad. I happen to think that a (highly paid) competitor should try his best at all times? Some people think that other people's feelings and their self esteem are more important. What if sinking that final putt made Mickelson cry or not feel good about himself? Maybe that's why he's fat and has manboobs .. he's an emotional eater. He's going to die an early death from heart disease, and it's all Tiger's fault.
DUDE JUST STOP! You are embarassing your self! Give it a rest! Let me explain something to you by tiger not doing well or purposly shanking a put it effects his score possibly giving the other players a lead in football running out the clock or kicking a FG when your up 40 does not take points away from them.

[TheCount]

I agree with your point, but I don't think golf is a good comparison. A sport that is timed like basketball is a better comparison than a sport like, tennis, golf or baseball that doesn't have a clock. The clock has a lot to say about whether a team has a realistic chance of coming back to win.

Also, Jordan sat the bench in many games when his team had a big lead.

It's not even close to Basketball. In basketball you have a shot clock, so you either take the shot or just give the ball to the other team. In football, you've got a huge lead and are imposing your will, you can grind minutes off that clock without giving the other team a chance to try and catch up.

[Dallas]

DUDE JUST STOP! You are embarassing your self! Give it a rest! Let me explain something to you by tiger not doing well or purposly shanking a put it effects his score possibly giving the other players a lead in football running out the clock or kicking a FG when your up 40 does not take points away from them.


Don't listen to him IR.


Please continue. :laugh2:

[D-TownRadio]

Ummmmmm, i actually have no idea what you are talking about.

Me. I have been arguing all night it has been classless of the Pats.

And please note the "ifs" in my post.

Im really confused by you here.:confused: :confused: :confused:
Oh sorry bout that... I just can't believe that these people are defending this guy. I mean I hate the skins and all but come on.

[D-TownRadio]

Don't listen to him IR.


Please continue. :laugh2:
You are just mean! We shouldn't make fun of the kids on the short buss! LOL :laugh2:

[InmanRoshi]

It's not even close to Basketball. In basketball you have a shot clock, so you either take the shot or just give the ball to the other team. In football, you've got a huge lead and are imposing your will, you can grind minutes off that clock without giving the other team a chance to try and catch up.

If Gibbs is calling timeouts, throwing the ball, in the hurry up offense and calling onside kicks ... obviously he doesn't want the clock to wind down. Why is it "classy" or merciful to force something on the opponent when they clearly don't want it?

[Royal Laegotti]

I saw this thread and I had to come back.

I for some reason would not doubt that if Tiger shot a 80+ at a course, the employees would put up a poster or something of the kind that "Tiger shot and 80 here."

:banghead:
I was being sarcastic, I agree, my arguement was that golfers compete against each other.

[InmanRoshi]

You seem to be missing the point. The stupidity in him intentionally shanking the putt is what makes the analogy dumb.

Either you're trying your hardest and giving your best effort or you're not. People don't have a problem when Tiger is trying his hardest until the very end, even when the outcome is decided and the rest of the field is in the clubhouse, but they expect the Patriots to quit trying their hardest 3/4 into the mach for the sake of sparing someone's feelings. Highly paid professional's feelings.

[Hostile]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?Hmm. I have never heard of this in golf.

Football on the other hand...

[theogt]

Either you're trying your hardest and giving your best effort or you're not. People don't have a problem when Tiger is trying his hardest until the very end, even when the outcome is decided and the rest of the field is in the clubhouse, but they expect the Patriots to quit trying their hardest for the sake 3/4 into the mach for the sake of sparing someone's feelings.Here's the difference in the simplest of terms:

In golf, there's no merciful way for Tiger to end the tournament quickly.

In football, there is a merciful way for the Patriots to end the game quickly.

Having the option to be merciful and not taking it is classless. Not having the option and not taking it, is not.

[InmanRoshi]

Here's the difference in simplest terms:

In golf, there's no merciful way for Tiger to end the tournament quickly.

In football, there is a merciful way for the Patriots to end the game quickly.

Having the option to be merciful and not taking it is classless. Not having the option and not taking it, is not.

But if the other team is in the hurry up, calling time outs and throwing the ball ... they don't want the game ended quickly. They obviously want to keep playing for as long as possible. So how is it merciful to force something on them that they obviously don't want?

[Doomsday]

In golf you are fighting the course to put up the best score you can over a 4 day period. Yes you are competing against other players but really all you can do is control is your own play. The anagoly makes no sense at all compared to a team sport where you are directly competing against another team in a timed game.

[theogt]

But if the other team is in the hurry up, calling time outs and throwing the ball ... they don't want the game ended quickly. They obviously want to keep playing for as long as possible. So how is it merciful to force something on them that they obviously don't want?They simply do not want to appear spineless. One has nothing to do with the other.

[InmanRoshi]

They simply do not want to appear spineless. One has nothing to do with the other.

In baseball, wouldn't the most merciful and quickest way to end a blowout be to purposely bunt the ball to the pitcher on the first pitch every at bat so he could promptly throw you out? Or at least swing wildly at the first three pitches for a quick strikeout. Why do batters continue to take pitches, draw walks, make hits and drive in runs?

[gbrittain]

1. I do not care if the Pats run up the score.

2. The Pats are running up the score.

3. It is classless, I just do not care.

4. It will come back around.

5. Making an anology between football and golf does not work.

6. Tiger Wood fans do not scream when Mickelson is in mid swing...Patriot fans should not scream when Campbell is about to throw.

[Hostile]

In baseball, wouldn't the most merciful and quickest way to end a game when you're up by 9 runs be to purposely bunt the ball to the pitcher on the first pitch every at bat so he could promptly throw you out? Why do batters continue to take pitches, draw walks, make hits and drive in runs?They quit trying to steal bases, bunt runners over, etc.

Your analogy is really poor.

[theogt]

In baseball, wouldn't the most mercifull and quickest way to end a game when you're up by 9 runs be to purposely bunt the ball to the pitcher on the first pitch every play so he could quickly throw you out? Why do baseball players continue to take pitches, draw walks, make hits and drive in runs? Is it because they lack class?Now that's a better analogy.

They don't have to bunt, but you rarely see baseball teams running up double digit leads.

And as Hos pointed out, they certainly stop doing things like stealing bases. That'd be the equivalent of going for it on 4th and 2.

[InmanRoshi]

They quit trying to steal bases, bunt runners over, etc.

Your analogy is really poor.

They may cut some unconventional things out, just like the Patriots cut some things out because they could have won by 70+ today if they really wanted to: onside kicks, two point conversions, throwing it in short yardage situations ... but baseball players still try to score runs by conventional means. When they're thrown a fastball down the middle, they swing just as hard as they did in the first inning. They're clearly not expected to end the game in the most merciful and quickest means possible.

[Hostile]

They may cut some unconventional things out, just like the Patriots cut some things out because they could have won by 70+ today if they really wanted to do onside kicks and two point conversions and throwing it in short yardage situations, but they still try to score by conventional means. They're clearly not expected to end the game in the most merciful and quickest means necessary like football is.Going for it on 4th down with a huge lead is just wrong. Kick the FG or punt.

It's an unwritten rule in football. Sorry if you're unaware of it. You don't show up the other team.

[Doomsday]

They may cut some unconventional things out, just like the Patriots cut some things out because they could have won by 70+ today if they really wanted to do onside kicks and two point conversions and throwing it in short yardage situations, but they still try to score by conventional means. When they're thrown a fastball down the middle, they swing just as hard as they did in the first inning. They're clearly not expected to end the game in the most merciful and quickest means possible.

Are you just drunk and bored? I see no logic reasoning behind this thread at all.

[theogt]

They may cut some unconventional things out, just like the Patriots cut some things out because they could have won by 70+ today if they really wanted to do onside kicks and two point conversions and throwing it in short yardage situations, but they still try to score by conventional means. They're clearly not expected to end the game in the most merciful and quickest means necessary like football is.They didn't cut out the unconventional things, though. That's what people are *****ing about. It's going for it on 4th and 2. It's throwing bombs on first down. Those are the classless acts that people are complaining about.

[VietCowboy]

In golf you are fighting the course to put up the best score you can over a 4 day period. Yes you are competing against other players but really all you can do is control is your own play. The anagoly makes no sense at all compared to a team sport where you are directly competing against another team in a timed game.


agreed. in golf, the players are not competing against each other where their actions would adversely affect their opponents. they are each trying to do their own individual best to win.

if you want to compare golf, compare it to ice skating or diving (not directly competing against each other).

a player in ice skating is considered classless if she purposely sabotages her opponents chance of winning not when she scores 6.0 when she only need a 4.0 for example.

[InmanRoshi]

Are you just drunk and bored? I see no logic reasoning behind this thread at all.
I just want to know when it's okay to tell my kids to quit trying to do their best. Evidently there comes a time when you should stop trying to do your best. I want to know when its okay to sacrifice your own personal pursuit of excellence to spare the "feelings" of others.

[Hostile]

I just want to know when it's okay to tell my kids to quit trying to do their best. Evidently there comes a time when you should stop trying to do your best. I want to know when its okay to sacrifice your own personal pursuit of excellence to spare the "feelings" of others.Never. Tell your kids to keep punching until the breathing stops.

Judas Priest.

[D-TownRadio]

In baseball, wouldn't the most merciful and quickest way to end a blowout be to purposely bunt the ball to the pitcher on the first pitch every at bat so he could promptly throw you out? Or at least swing wildly at the first three pitches for a quick strikeout. Why do batters continue to take pitches, draw walks, make hits and drive in runs?
In baseball if you are winning at the buttom of the 9th you end the game you don't try to run up the score... Again you are wrong... Sorry. LOL

[D-TownRadio]

I just want to know when it's okay to tell my kids to quit trying to do their best. Evidently there comes a time when you should stop trying to do your best. I want to know when its okay to sacrifice your own personal pursuit of excellence to spare the "feelings" of others.
HAHAHAHA you realy don't get it do you? Look it has nothing to do with not doing your best. The pats did their best and had the game won there are just things you don't do when you have the lead and game in hand.

[InmanRoshi]

Never. Tell your kids to keep punching until the breathing stops.

Judas Priest.

Okay, I'll just prepare him for the business world by telling him that when his competitors are kicking his arse that it's okay to just take it ... they'll just give you a piece of the marketshare and wait until you get back on your feet, because they'll feel bad if your company goes under and they get the whole pie to themselves.

This is what we're talking about here ... professional athletes. The Redskins are paid just as much as the Patriots for doing the same job.

[Hostile]

Okay, I'll just prepare him for the business world by telling him that when his competitors are kicking his arse that it's okay to just take it ... they'll just give you a piece of the marketshare and wait until you get back on your feet, because they'll feel bad if your company goes under and they get the whole pie to themselves.

This is what we're talking about here ... professional athletes. The Redskins are paid just as much as the Patriots for doing the same job.The Redskins just took it?

No way. Another bad analogy.

Going for a trifecta?

[Faerluna]

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

I would hope that we teach our kids that in competition, there are winners and there are losers.

There are also good sportsmen and bad sportsmen, and these qualities have zero to do with winning and losing.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best, or achieving it. There is a problem when kids can't understand when enough is enough.

If we teach our children that they should never care how bad they make another person/team look, we're basically telling them that this is acceptable behavior. This will then evolve in how they deal with everyday relationships. Nobody likes the kid that bests you and then rubs your nose in it.

[smarta5150]

Wow, just wow.

[bbgun]

Hmm. Never thought of it like that. Much to ponder (although many are quick to dsimiss).

[InmanRoshi]

In baseball if you are winning at the buttom of the 9th you end the game you don't try to run up the score... Again you are wrong... Sorry. LOL


Actually that is the end of the game, because the losing team has utilized all 27 outs. Nothing has changed. The winning team still swings just as hard at meatballs in the 8th inning as they do in the 1st inning. They're not expected to purposely strike out to save the other team humiliation.

[Bob Sacamano]

*sigh* this is why I hate the bye week

[Doomsday]

Maybe you should just teach your kids to use common sense then they will be able to do what you dont seem able to decide when it makes sense to show compassion and respect for thier opposition.

[InmanRoshi]

Maybe you should just teach your kids to use common sense then they will be able to do what you dont seem able to decide when it makes sense to show compassion and respect for thier opposition.

Yeah, that's the way the world works. Apple feels sorry for Microsoft because their IPod is wiping the floor with the Zune. So, for the sake of fairness, Apple is going to stop marketing the Ipod, stop trying to improve it with new features, stop introducing it to new markets until Zune gets on it's feet.

[Doomsday]

Yeah, that's the way the world works. Apple feels sorry for Microsoft because their IPod is wiping the floor with the Zune. So, for the sake of fairness, Apple is going to stop marketing the Ipod, stop trying to improve it with new features, stop introducing it to new markets and until Zune gets on it's feet.

Common sense would tell you when it comes to business there is no reason to take it easy on your competition. Maybe you should have someone else teach your kids common sense you seem to be lacking in that area.

[InmanRoshi]

Common sense would tell you when it comes to making money and business there is no reason to take it easy on your competition. Maybe you should have someone else teach your kids common sense you seem to be lacking in that area.

And professional sports isn't about business or money. They're playing for charity and bragging rights.

[Doomsday]

And professional sports isn't about business or money. They're playing for charity and bragging rights.

Like I said before you are either really drunk or just really thick headed. Your analogies make absolutely no sense at all. You arent comparing apples to apples, your not even comparing apples to oranges its more like apples to peanuts.

[D-TownRadio]

Common sense would tell you when it comes to business there is no reason to take it easy on your competition. Maybe you should have someone else teach your kids common sense you seem to be lacking in that area.
I just woke my wife and kid up I am laughing so hard... I am not even joking! aww man this guy is funny. Hey IR do you think a ref shouldn't stop a fight as well? Should one boxer beat the other one to death?

[InmanRoshi]

I just woke my wife and kid up I am laughing so hard... I am not even joking! aww man this guy is funny. Hey IR do you think a ref shouldn't stop a fight as well? Should one boxer beat the other one to death?

Managers and boxers call the fight all the time. It's called throwing in the towel. Gibbs was still calling time outs, kicking onside kicks and throwing into the endzone. Looks like he was still wanting to fight to me.

But if you want to accuse me of bad analogies, please expand more on how the Patriots going for it on 4th and 2 is the equivalent of Duk Koo Kim dying of brain damage.

[VietCowboy]

Like I said before you are either really drunk or just really thick headed. Your anagolies make absolutely no sense at all. You arent comparing apples to apples, your not even comparing apples to oranges its more like apples to peanuts.


everything comes down to money anyway. the point is, there are different norms in every sport, every profession, etc. a police officer who is racial profiling, an advisor taking credit for his/her student's work, etc. is generally frowned upon. so is running up the score in football.

[TheCount]

Managers and boxers call the fight all the time. It's called throwing in the towel. Gibbs was still calling time outs, kicking onside kicks and throwing into the endzone. Looks like he was still wanting to fight to me.

But if you want to accuse me of bad analogies, please expand more on how the Patriots going for it on 4th and 2 is the equivalent of Duk Koo Kim dying of brain damage.

You're going to ride this horse into the gates of hell, aren't you? Good luck to you man, god speed.

You go ahead and teach your kids whatever you want. I have a feeling you'll be one of those fathers calling your son a failure for coming home with an A- instead of an A+.

[D-TownRadio]

Managers and boxers call the fight all the time. It's called throwing in the towel. Gibbs was still calling time outs, kicking onside kicks and throwing into the endzone. Looks like he was still wanting to fight to me.

But if you want to accuse me of bad analogies, please expand more on how the Patriots going for it on 4th and 2 is the equivalent of Duk Koo Kim dying of brain damage.
So you so how my analogy is bad? Then you can see how yours are to right? LOL you just proved my point for me.

[D-TownRadio]

I give up on this guy... But I will continue to read because he is funny. If I didn't know better I would think was a Pats fan... LOL this guy is great.

[Chocolate Lab]

Wow, just wow.

:hammer:

Obviously, someone isn't a golfer.

And the MP3 player analogies aren't much, if any, better.

If nothing else, today's Skins game shows that it isn't just bitter Cowboys fans who are talking about Belichick being a jerk. It's the whole league. I heard it on several national talk shows today, and guess what, none of them rooted for the Cowboys.

But back to the thread, I'm amazed that even some smart people cannot see that trying your best to win and having class are entirely separate matters that have nothing to do with each other.

[Idgit]

I'm with you, IR. Bad metaphors and all.

It's a game. You play to win. There's no other point in playing. Any team that blows an o-ring because they can't play as well as another, well, I have no sympathy for them. In fact, I'm embarrased for Randall Godfrey.

And beating a team badly is not a show of disrespect. The opposite, in fact. Not respecting me enough to play your best the whole time is patronizing and insulting.

[Idgit]

I just woke my wife and kid up I am laughing so hard... I am not even joking! aww man this guy is funny. Hey IR do you think a ref shouldn't stop a fight as well? Should one boxer beat the other one to death?

IR, this guy's coming for your Worst Metaphor in a Thread belt.

[Achilleslastand]

Who even said Tiger Woods is an athlete?

[Rack Bauer]

http://www.waterfootprint.org/images/gallery/original/apple.jpg


Meet...


http://www.freedigitalphotos.net/image/s_orange.jpg

[D-TownRadio]

IR, this guy's coming for your Worst Metaphor in a Thread belt.
First off let me just say this. No one said you pitty anyone but you just don't rub their face in it. Like it or not it is an unwritten rule. And us as fans are supposed to love when our team kills another team. But as a coach and as a team you are supposed to have respect for a team. You don't humiliate a team because you have a personal problem with the league because you got cought cheating. This is classless, playing till the end is one thing no one ever said you are supposed to quit playing in over time or kick a field goal when your down by 4 with 3 seconds left but when you have the win in hand you don't disrespect a team and treat them like sh*t.
Second you are not a coach or a player so you have no right to say you are ashamed of anything or that something is not disrespectfull. Obviously they are doing something wrong if coaches refuse to shake this guys hand and players call them dirty and underhanded. The media also talks about it and they love New England. The facts are this team is dirty this team cheats and this team has no class what so ever. Explain to me why every other team in the NFL lets up when the game is in hand? Is it because they are quiters? Okay then you have no idea what your talking about and are embarassing yourself by talking.
Third I wasn't making a serious comparison I was trying to show him how stupid his was. I have a feeling that both of you are like 13 15 tops and have no respect for anything or anyone. But when you get a little older you will understand but for now go whipe the brest milk from your lips and leave the conversing to the adults.

[Idgit]

First off let me just say this. No one said you pitty anyone but you just don't rub their face in it. Like it or not it is an unwritten rule. And us as fans are supposed to love when our team kills another team. But as a coach and as a team you are supposed to have respect for a team. You don't humiliate a team because you have a personal problem with the league because you got cought cheating. This is classless, playing till the end is one thing no one ever said you are supposed to quit playing in over time or kick a field goal when your down by 4 with 3 seconds left but when you have the win in hand you don't disrespect a team and treat them like sh*t.

Again, you can respect an opponent and also not let up on an opponent. I guess I'm not clear where the face-rubbing comes in. Your offensive team tries to score. Your defense tries to stop it. It's pretty simple.

I also don't buy that it's particularly humiliating to get beat badly. Anyone who's ever competed at any level understands that sometimes you get beat badly. It's much more embarrassing to get beat physically *and* mentally. It's obvious you're beat mentally when you complain in the press after a game that the other team tried too hard and did not lay off when you expected them to.

Second you are not a coach or a player so you have no right to say you are ashamed of anything or that something is not disrespectfull.........Okay then you have no idea what your talking about and are embarassing yourself by talking.

How about I reserve my right to common human emotions like sympathetic embarrassment, and you reserve your right to barely squeeze out a readable sentence? For the record, you won't catch me condoning the things that the Pats do that actually *are* classless. There are many of them.

As for why other teams don't play the way the Pats do, first off, I don't know that there are any that even have that option. There are certainly blowouts each and every week, though. I could make the argument that it's the Pats mindset of going full-throttle that makes them so good.

Third I wasn't making a serious comparison I was trying to show him how stupid his was. I have a feeling that both of you are like 13 15 tops and have no respect for anything or anyone. But when you get a little older you will understand but for now go whipe the brest milk from your lips and leave the conversing to the adults.

Oh, it was very clear that you weren't making a serious comparison.

You're wrong about my age, but it creeps me out that you knew I was drinking breast milk. It's like you have a camera and you're watching me. If you're looking now, notice how my lips don't actually move when I type and I'm using more than one finger at a time on the keyboard. It's magic!

[D-TownRadio]

Ummm? Cowboys have had plenty of chances to run up scores but instead they put their second stringers in and run the clock down and kick fieldgoals and punts on 4th down. As do the colts. Alot of teams have chances to do what the pats do maybe not every week but it does happen and they are classy about it. I am not just judging your age on this post but on your tasteless sig as well.

[Rack Bauer]

Your offensive team tries to score. Your defense tries to stop it. It's pretty simple.

That's not the problem IMO.


The problem is leaving your starters in the game when the game is completely in hand.


Not only is that bad sportsmanship (if it isn't bad sportsmanship, then NOTHING is bad sportsmanship), but it's also completely stupid.

And it's not just the running up the score that makes the Pats classless. There's plenty of other things they've done that makes them deserving of the "Classless" label.

[Idgit]

That's not the problem IMO.


The problem is leaving your starters in the game when the game is completely in hand.


Not only is that bad sportsmanship (if it isn't bad sportsmanship, then NOTHING is bad sportsmanship), but it's also completely stupid.

And it's not just the running up the score that makes the Pats classless. There's plenty of other things they've done that makes them deserving of the "Classless" label.

I agree completely that the Pats are classless. And I agree that it's stupid to risk a player like Brady or Moss any longer than you have to. My point is that it's fair game for an offense to try to score whenever it's on the field, regardless of what players are in at the time.

Whatever else he may be, though, BB is a smart guy. I think he's probably
leaving his starters in longer to establish the psychology he wants for this team. The blowback in the press this week alone is going to go a long way to keep an us-against-them vibe in the NE locker room. BB will say the right things in the press, and then continue to blow teams out mercilessly and then goad his team into chaffing at the criticism. If that's what he does, it's smart and not necessarily classless in my book.

[D-TownRadio]

Oh please the reason he is doing it is to prove that they can win without the tapes but it proves nothing because they didn't have the stars they have now and they won all their championships by 3 points so even if he only got a small advantage it was still enough for 3 points at the least...

[Clove]

They may cut some unconventional things out, just like the Patriots cut some things out because they could have won by 70+ today if they really wanted to: onside kicks, two point conversions, throwing it in short yardage situations ... but baseball players still try to score runs by conventional means. When they're thrown a fastball down the middle, they swing just as hard as they did in the first inning. They're clearly not expected to end the game in the most merciful and quickest means possible.Your sig line is funny.:laugh2:

[Danny White]

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point must be trying to show up your opponent because it really serves no other purpose other than some people think a competitor should give it their all at all times

I haven't read every post in this thread, so someone may have already brought this up...

But it isn't uncommon at all for a player who has a large lead in the final round of a tournament to "play it safe" and just try to par their final hole or holes to avoid catastrophe (see Jean Van De Velde).

[03EBZ06]

Not a good comparison. The golfers are playing the course and their job is to beat the course, it's you against the course. Even if you have six shot lead, which is a very big lead, that six shots can go wayside, real fast, you could lose it in two holes with some bad shots. The golfer must maintain their swing, any deviations (or relaxation, if you like) from swing can cause miss-hits, same with putting, consistancy is the key to golfers success. This is why golfers cannot relax and ease up from what they were doing in order to beat the courses.

[Sam I Am]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

As theebs had the nerve :rolleyes: to say to me once. No offense, but you've lost some credibility. :lmao2: :lmao:

[notherbob]

Individual competitors like swimmers and runners compete against the clock while golfers compete against par. You don't slow down just because you're ahead, you try your best to break the record. It's not done for social reasons, it's done for personal reasons. You want to be the best ever and if you slow down your times will not be good enough.

[burmafrd]

Why so much effort to defend the Pats? hmmmmm

[THUMPER]

I actually have attend the San Diego Golf Academy, a 2 year associates degree school where they teach you to run/manage a golf course and how to play better mentally and physically. Trust me, you aren't playing against your competitors and if you are, you are going to most likely lose. You are playing solely against the golf course.

"I'm drinkin beer in the hot sun. I fought the course and the course won. I fought the course and the course won."

:laugh2:

[GimmeTheBall!]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

Of all the athletes on the planet, I could think of better ones for the "no class" fille.
Tiger Woods is the highest paid athletete in the U.S., I think. He has a beautiful wife and no where to go but up.
I guess that would make him a target.
Aside from his success, I am sure his fellow golfers like him just fine.

[Vtwin]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?


It's very obvious to anyone without an agenda.

Golf is not a timed sport and you are competing against the course.

I remember Jordan and the Bulls milking every second off the shot clock before taking the shot.

You really don't see the difference?

Really?

[AsthmaField]

All of these analogies and making fun of analogies... they just don't matter. Fact is, Belichick knows what he's doing. He knows he's running up the score and he doesn't care. It's his way and the Partiot's way of punishing the rest of the NFL for his "spy-gate" escapade.

They're simply taking an "Us against the World" view of their cheating and they're trying to run up the score. It's almost like they feel like they're losing money and a #1 pick... so they want to take that value back from the teams they whoop.

[baj1dallas]

Didn't they take Brady out anyway, at the very end of the game? Not that I was even watching at that point.

[BLEU3ASY]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?


why would they train hard to play weak? thats nonsense. you don't want to feel bad? PLAY BETTER!!!!

[da_whiz_kid]

This is dumb...like it's been stated, you play against the course, and you play against yourself...the whole point of the game is to get as low a score as you possibly can...

[InmanRoshi]

This is dumb...like it's been stated, you play against the course, and you play against yourself...the whole point of the game is to get as low a score as you possibly can...

So, if I play in the PGA and I shoot my personal best of 83, they're going to give me a trophy and a check because I broke my all time highest score? Wow, that's pretty generous of them. I thought they handed the checks to the people who shoot the lowest out of a competitive field.

[Hostile]

So, if I play in the PGA and I shoot my personal best of 83, they're going to give me a trophy and a check because I broke my all time highest score? Wow, that's pretty generous of them. I thought they handed the checks to the people who shoot the lowest out of a competitive field.LOL

You've never played golf in your life have you?

[InmanRoshi]

LOL

You've never played golf in your life have you?

Plenty, but not on the professional level. I know people who at the collegiate level, and they say it's pretty much nothing like your average Sunday Morning on the links. Its not just you and the course. You have to keep an eye on the leaderboard and adapt your play to how others are playing. If you're behind, sometimes you're forced to play more aggressive than you normally would.

Have you played on the PGA?

[03EBZ06]

So they give out checks to players who do their personal best on that particular course in the PGA? I thought they gave checks to the person who had the lowest scores out of the competitive field.
Dude, you picked a wrong sport and wrong person to make your point. You simply can't compare golf rules and scoring to Football rules and scoring.

Start a poll and ask if Tiger or any other golfer if he/others are classless because they are doing what he suppose to do and that is go lowest as possible and hope you are lower than the field at end of 72nd hole.

The golfers cannot let up because they will lose their swing and putting, which will cause them to lose strokes real fast, faster than you think. The golfers must maintain their swing and putting strokes in order to maintain their score or go lower.

Your attempt at this ridiculous comparison between Tiger and Belicheat is absolutely laughable.

[Hostile]

Plenty, but not on the professional level. I know people who at the collegiate level, and they say it's pretty much nothing like your average Sunday Morning on the links.

Have you played on the PGA?Not even close, but at least I understand the game. I am convinced after thsi thread that you have no earthly clue about it.

[Hoofbite]

There are good analogies and bad analogies.

Im not sure you could hit the nail any more squarely on the head

[InmanRoshi]

The golfers cannot let up because they will lose their swing and putting, which will cause them to lose strokes real fast, faster than you think. The golfers must maintain their swing and putting strokes in order to maintain their score or go lower.


And if Belichick made his players stop going all out every time they have a big lead ... which is pretty much halftime of every game they've played this year, barring the Cowboys matchup ... there wouldn't be any effects on the team?

Interesting.

The only difference is that someone drew an arbitrary line in the sand and said it's okay to try your best on every stroke in golf, but it's not okay in football. Some choose to follow outdated heuristics, and others question them. No biggie.

[CrazyCowboy]

I just believe Tiger is trying to beat the course and not show up his opponent....but, I am not sure.

[Hostile]

I just believe Tiger is trying to beat the course and not show up his opponent....but, I am not sure.There is no "showing up an opponent" in golf. That's why this analogy is so poor.

It's not like they are defending against his shots, or him against theirs. And anyone who does not realize that guys who have a tournament wrapped up "lay up" their shots at the end just are clueless. That includes Tiger. I've seen several torunaments where he has birdied a hole 3 days in a row and played it safe the last day.

[mkelly71]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

its not classless its called killer instinct :). if they dont want him so far ahead maybe they should step there games up. its not tigers fault they cant keep up he wants to do the best possible. some of the best just know how to play one way all out and dont pay attention to wear the other players are. take every shot like its your last shot and your behind

[Arch Stanton]

It's very obvious to anyone without an agenda.

Golf is not a timed sport and you are competing against the course.

I remember Jordan and the Bulls milking every second off the shot clock before taking the shot.

You really don't see the difference?

Really?

Actually there is a "timed" element to golf. You can go "on the clock" for slow play and subsequently be fined by the officials. It has been known in the past for some golfers to play slowly to upset a fellow player who would prefer a speedier round. I'd say that 99.99% of golfers show respect to their fellow golfers as well as the game of golf. I'm guessing Bill Belichek doesn't play golf.

[peplaw06]

I really can't believe this thread is still going.... but since it is, I wanted to clarify or repeat something if you will.

Someone in one of these threads was talking about how golfers indeed do take it easy with big leads at the end of rounds. I wanna say it was theo, but I couldn't find it, so I can't be sure on the attribution. If it was someone else, I apologize.

I didn't see IR's response either, so I'd like to see it, if there is one.

One of the most famous (or infamous) collapses in the long history of golf is Jan Van de Velde, who with a three shot lead in the 1999 British Open on the 18th tee, hit into the burm twice. He took a triple bogey and lost in the playoff, mainly because he didn't play it safe on the last hole when he had the Open won.

That's why on the last hole or 4 when you have a big lead, you have golfers hitting irons off the tee, hitting to the center of the green instead of at tough pins, and generally taking less chances on the course.

When Tiger won his first Masters in 1997, and shot the lowest 4 round total in history, he shot 70-66-65-69. So his last round, you can see he didn't shoot as well as he did in the middle 2.

That is the norm for golfers. Play it safe when they have a big lead at the end. That's not what the Pats did yesterday.

[Dallas]

THIS THREAD IS SUTPID !!



Almost 8 pages now. Comedy ? I think so.


nyuk...nyuk...:laugh1:

[Danny White]

I really can't believe this thread is still going.... but since it is, I wanted to clarify or repeat something if you will.

Someone in one of these threads was talking about how golfers indeed do take it easy with big leads at the end of rounds. I wanna say it was theo, but I couldn't find it, so I can't be sure on the attribution. If it was someone else, I apologize.

I didn't see IR's response either, so I'd like to see it, if there is one.

One of the most famous (or infamous) collapses in the long history of golf is Jan Van de Velde, who with a three shot lead in the 1999 British Open on the 18th tee, hit into the burm twice. He took a triple bogey and lost in the playoff, mainly because he didn't play it safe on the last hole when he had the Open won.

That's why on the last hole or 4 when you have a big lead, you have golfers hitting irons off the tee, hitting to the center of the green instead of at tough pins, and generally taking less chances on the course.

When Tiger won his first Masters in 1997, and shot the lowest 4 round total in history, he shot 70-66-65-69. So his last round, you can see he didn't shoot as well as he did in the middle 2.

That is the norm for golfers. Play it safe when they have a big lead at the end. That's not what the Pats did yesterday.

That was my post.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1734525&postcount=81


Another thing... I'm the farthest thing from a golf pro, but I will undertake a friendly wager with my playing partners when I do tee it up.

Once play is underway, the last thing in the world I'd expect from my opponent is for them to "ease up" on me if they were trouncing me. If I'm playing horribly, and my "opponent" is playing the round of their life, you're happy for them. In golf, the way your opponent is playing has nothing to do with you, so them letting up means nothing.

[gbrittain]

And if Belichick made his players stop going all out every time they have a big lead ... which is pretty much halftime of every game they've played this year, barring the Cowboys matchup ... there wouldn't be any effects on the team?

Interesting.

The only difference is that someone drew an arbitrary line in the sand and said it's okay to try your best on every stroke in golf, but it's not okay in football. Some choose to follow outdated heuristics, and others question them. No biggie.

You are confusing "playing your best" with playing an aggresive game plan. No one is asking a player "to mail it in".


Example:

If a coach were to know for a fact that the best play he has right now is a fake punt as opposed to punting. All indications are that the fake punt would work because the opponent is not covering the fake at all. Your theory suggest that the coach is obligated to run his best play, because anything less would be to stop playing your best. The reality is you show some respect for your opponent and punt the ball.

If a player is in the game he should give it 100% and never stop.

You can however, play a more conservative game and that should not be confused with "not trying your best".

[Daudr]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

See? Now you are acting like Belicheat. Pretending to do nothing wrong, and then trying to spite people. Do you really believe that the way Tiger Woods plays is the equivalent to the way Belicheat plays? If so, then you are more clueless than even I give you credit for.

[Chuck 54]

I don't think the analogy works either, but then...I don't think that was the point.

The point is we don't care that players and coaches are still trying in blowouts in baseball, basketball, or hockey....we don't care about blowouts in golf, and we don't seem to have a problem with the best in tennis humiliating someone 6-1, 6-1, 6-0....no one says, "Gee, he's got the thing won; he could at least let the other guy hold his serve a couple of times, knowing he'll win the set on his own next serve."

Maybe it's because football is such a physical sport that we think the best teams should ease up a little and just coast with big leads. I'm not really sure where this idea comes from, but I'm guessing more coaches stop throwing the ball more to keep the clock running and avoid making goofy mistakes or risking injury to their skill players than they do so out of pity for their opponents.

Let's face it....it used to be thought humiliating, regardless of the score, when team was so superior that they quit passing and just ran the ball down your throat all during the second half, grinding down your defense and never letting your offense on the field...that was painful to watch, unless you were loving your team that was doing it. Now, we actually want the superior team to just kneel down on 4th down instead of kicking a FG, and we certainly don't want them running the ball, a play that used to be considered merciful.

You know what....I just have no sympathy for a team that can't even stop the run when they know it's coming, and I don't condone my team kneeling down to avoid another first down or score.

[Doomsday101]

I don't think the analogy works either, but then...I don't think that was the point.

The point is we don't care that players and coaches are still trying in blowouts in baseball, basketball, or hockey....we don't care about blowouts in golf, and we don't seem to have a problem with the best in tennis humiliating someone 6-1, 6-1, 6-0....no one says, "Gee, he's got the thing won; he could at least let the other guy hold his serve a couple of times, knowing he'll win the set on his own next serve."

Maybe it's because football is such a physical sport that we think the best teams should ease up a little and just coast with big leads. I'm not really sure where this idea comes from, but I'm guessing more coaches stop throwing the ball more to keep the clock running and avoid making goofy mistakes or risking injury to their skill players than they do so out of pity for their opponents.

Let's face it....it used to be thought humiliating, regardless of the score, when team was so superior that they quit passing and just ran the ball down your throat all during the second half, grinding down your defense and never letting your offense on the field...that was painful to watch, unless you were loving your team that was doing it. Now, we actually want the superior team to just kneel down on 4th down instead of kicking a FG, and we certainly don't want them running the ball, a play that used to be considered merciful.

You know what....I just have no sympathy for a team that can't even stop the run when they know it's coming, and I don't condone my team kneeling down to avoid another first down or score.

I agree and frankly the only chance you have to make it respectable is if the other team keeps playing. If they are still throwing passes I have a chance to get the sack and fumble or the int. As far as yesterdays game the Pats pulled many key staters with over 8 min left in the game so I really don't see why many are upset. Is it because the backups for NE put points on the board as well?

[peplaw06]

The point is we don't care that players and coaches are still trying in blowouts in baseball, basketball, or hockey....we don't care about blowouts in golf, and we don't seem to have a problem with the best in tennis humiliating someone 6-1, 6-1, 6-0....no one says, "Gee, he's got the thing won; he could at least let the other guy hold his serve a couple of times, knowing he'll win the set on his own next serve."

You can basically throw out baseball, golf, and tennis in this discussion. The reason being that there is no clock. In baseball you have 27 outs. In golf you have 72 holes. In tennis you have 3-5 sets.

No amount of lead is ever safe in those sports, until the last hole/inning/point has been played.

I played a lot of tennis, and was often told by coaches, "Just win the last point." As long as you do that, you will win. In baseball, you don't run out of time, if you have the last at bat, you have the advantage, because any amount of runs can be scored in 3 outs. In golf, a three shot lead is not safe in the last hole, as we have seen.

Basketball teams absolutely take it easier when there's a big lead in the 4th. They run the shot clock down to single digits before taking shots, they make a conscious effort not to foul when a guy drives the lane, they sit their starters, and let the crowd give them ovations as they leave the court.

Hockey teams the same thing. When they're up big, they will just dump the puck in the offensive zone and leave it. They'll pull starting goalies.

If there's a clock, and you have a definite time frame for when the game will be over, you can "call off the dogs," and not have it hurt you.

[InmanRoshi]

I'm not really sure where this idea comes from, but I'm guessing more coaches stop throwing the ball more to keep the clock running and avoid making goofy mistakes or risking injury to their skill players than they do so out of pity for their opponents.

Which is really kind of silly, since injuries are far more likely to happen on running plays when bodies and legs and limbs get caught in pile ups. If you go to a training camp practice the fundamental rule is that they don't want bodies on the ground.

And there are ways you can "show up" an opponent in other sports that don't include running up the score. What about Jordan shooting free throws with his eyes shut? What about Sugar Ray throwing bolo punches? What about Ali shuffling his feet? They served no purpose for the pure sake of competition. They did it to make a statement, intimidate the opponent and prove a point. I guess they're classless too.

[Q_the_man]

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point must be trying to show up your opponent because it really serves no other purpose other than some people think a competitor should give it their all at all times
what should he do, don't play the final hole and ff the tourney..... he has to play all the holes, it's not like he can kneel down and take a knee..... than u say MJ, I bet if the Bulls were winning by 40 in the 4th MJ wouldn't sniff the court so there goes that theory, come on IR be better than that......

[scottsp]

IR: Without commenting on anything but the premise, I would be offended far more by what the Redskins threw out there yesterday than anything the Patriots of Bill Belichick.

If we are so sensitive as to getting our feathers ruffled by 40-point margin as opposed to a mere four-touchdown spread, the Randall Godfreys among us might want to unbunch and do something about it.

Otherwise, I would expect another ripping.

[Q_the_man]

I didn't say purposely shanking a drive ... I said going for birdie on the final hole when you already have a 12 stroke lead. Your analogy is stupid.
What should he do miss on purpose and take a par???? just asking......

[L-O-Jete]

LOLOL I know a sign of brightness is omitting punctuation so Ill try to be bright and explain it to you that when you have a 12 stroke lead heading into the final hole then trying to score birdie on a hole that is completely irrelevant at that point must be trying to show up your opponent because it really serves no other purpose other than some people think a competitor should give it their all at all times

Actually he does ease off when he has a large lead you'll notice his play goes way more conservative (not taking out the driver, not pushing to get to the green, aiming for the center of the green, etc.), but the others know he'll probably at least make par (he is so good he'll still fall into a couple of birdies, probably no eagles though) that THEY start pushing and pressing (which is not good in golf) and fall off.

I really don't understand why it rattles you so much that some consider BB classless...

[Bizwah]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread.

But the comparison is ridiculous. There really are few similarities between football and golf.

In golf, it's not really you vs an opponent.

It's you vs the course.

I play all the time with a scratch golfer. He's won a number of local tournaments. When we play, it's normal for him to score 20+ strokes better than me.

Is he running it up?

No.

He's simply trying to do his best vs his opponent.....THE COURSE.

Same with me.....I'm trying to score my best against the COURSE.

He helps me with my game, he gives me high fives when I do well. Same with me.

In football, your opponents are other men. And, if you want to run up the score.....you can. I don't know what the Patriots should do. You don't want to tell your players not to play hard. That causes injury. But there's also a time where you should show your opponent you respect them.

I remember when I used to coach jr high basketball. My team had a pretty deadly press. I remember getting caught up in the action one game, seeing my team get steal after steal...layup after layup.

I wasn't intending to run up the score, I was just pleased to see how hard my guys were playing. I heard the other coach yell at me, "you think your up by enough?"

I honestly felt terrible......I looked up at the scoreboard and saw that we had a HUGE lead. I called off the dogs and began to substitute. Of course, I had my subs play hard still. After the game, I apologized to the coach. Sometimes in games, you get so caught up, you don't really realize what's going on.

[dallasfaniac]

These guys are grown men, I have no problem with running up the score, especially when we do against them in the Superbowl. :D

I was hoping they'd score a more and prevent Washington from scoring at all honestly.

That said, when you do run the score up, you're creating a monster you'll have to deal with. When a guy like Haynesworth can rip off a helmet and rake his cleats against someone's face, grab nuts and twist in a dogpile, etc. it wouldn't be a stretch to see them purposely going at Brady's knees when they try to run up the score. Heck, another AFC team in contention could send in a scrub to get some 'playing time' in a blowout loss just to take Brady out for their post season rematch.

[utrunner07]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?

I can't believe you tried to defend this post, should have just realized it was bad and moved on, if you honestly think you can compare one to the other then you've never watched one of those sports...ive seen some bad posts this season, probably made a few myself, but this is by FAR one of the worst posts of the season...

but, I can't believe so many of ya'll are defending the patriots...seems like its pretty black and white to me, the patriots are egomaniacs, cheaters, they video tape, mess with equipment of other teams, take steroids, play dirty, and run up the score, its all proven...seems like its pretty obvious to me who is in the wrong...guess im just out of the loop, guess all this stuff is fine to do...sure...ya'll keep defending them.

[jimmy40]

Tiger isnt playing against other players he is playing against the course. But I do think you should get a prize for stupid post of the day.Jack Nicklaus was asked what would happen if he was in his prime and played against Tiger and he said "I would beat his brains out and I'm sure Tiger would say the same about me". I didn't hear him say anything about the course.

[Bob Sacamano]

I just want to ask one thing? if BIll decided to kick that FG instead of going for the 1st on 4th and whatever, but still had his team play hard, would he still be classless?

even though IR's analogy was bad, he does have a point, teams shouldn't give themselves the option to turn it on and off like a faucet in games, because the Pats are going to get some tough games later in the season, this week in fact, so they'll need to be conditioned to finish games, but BB could have done w/o going for it on 4th and 1, he had the option to come away w/ points by kicking the FG, he didn't need the 7, but other than that, I didn't have a problem w/ what Bill did

calling off the dogs after just a half and half a quarter, for 6 games, they needed 3 quarters against us ;) isn't good conditioning

[Hostile]

Jack Nicklaus was asked what would happen if he was in his prime and played against Tiger and he said "I would beat his brains out and I'm sure Tiger would say the same about me". I didn't hear him say anything about the course.Are you maintaining that they don't play the course?

[jimmy40]

Are you maintaining that they don't play the course?I'm maintaining you play to beat the other guy and Tiger and Jack want to dominate, not just win. Why do you think Jack never cared about seniors golf? They play courses too don't they? Why did Jack retire? Because he couldn't win anymore.

[Hostile]

I'm maintaining you play to beat the other guy and Tiger and Jack want to dominate, not just win. Why do you think Jack never cared about seniors golf? They play courses too don't they? Why did Jack retire? Because he couldn't win anymore.Auntie Em, Auntie Em, it's a twister! Its a twister!

[Bob Sacamano]

I got the Downey

[Nors]

I played a lot of competitive golf. We had a city tournament and club championship that were MATCH play format. That is where you are mano mano up against opponent and course. That format is a lot of player on player competition. And intimidation and gamesmanship is part of that. Watch Tiger control tempo, match play you make a birdie, have honors next tee. Rip ball out of hole and march to next tee fast paced and rip a 300 yarder down fairway, opponent is now in a defensive mentality and senses he has lost control.

Tiger does that all the time - even though its not match play. He is imposing HIS will on who he is playing that day. Another Tiger trick I liked to use. Knowing you can bomp it past your opponent, pull out a 1 iron when opponent is hitting driver. You drill it center of fairway 250 and opponents driver starts to get wild, what is this guy doing?

Ironically, Nicklaus won the US amateur which was then a Major. Match Play.

Tiger won 3 straight Jr Amateurs and the 3 straight US Amatuers. Again, Match Play.

I 100% Believe Tiger like Jack, was not only attacking course but going after their opponents. It was how they were trained in Match play. Only takes one 5 up with 5 to go collapse to realize a match is never over.

The tour plays a "72 score" format which does make course mgmt more important. But the greats have that killer instinct and are going after opponents. It's human nature and what made Jack and Tiger so great. They were trying to bury opponents.

And did.

[jimmy40]

Auntie Em, Auntie Em, it's a twister! Its a twister!That's what I thought.

[03EBZ06]

Jack Nicklaus was asked what would happen if he was in his prime and played against Tiger and he said "I would beat his brains out and I'm sure Tiger would say the same about me". I didn't hear him say anything about the course.
And how do they beat eachother's brains out? They can't stop other player from doing whatever they doing, there is no defense, they can only play the course and hope that your score is lower that other players.

[Nors]

I'm maintaining you play to beat the other guy and Tiger and Jack want to dominate, not just win. Why do you think Jack never cared about seniors golf? They play courses too don't they? Why did Jack retire? Because he couldn't win anymore.

I agree - He won masters at what 47 and was in Contention Sunday at masters at age 57.

I tell you what, with same equipment. I'd love to see those two at their prime go at it. I think if they played 100 times the outcome would hover near 50 - 50

Both won because they could hit the ball so far and HIGH. You are hitting a 7 iron in and opponent a 4 iron they are in trouble. Both great clutch putters. Both dominated the competition.

[Hostile]

That's what I thought.Me too. I knew you couldn't answer a simple yes or no without spin control.

[Nors]

And how do they beat eachother's brains out? They can't stop other player from doing whatever they doing, there is no defense, they can only play the course and hope that your score is lower that other players.


Most of the time by Sunday, the two leaders are paired together and it subtly becomes match play. Tiger has a crazy record when winning with lead after 3rd round. He attacks with a match play attack. That is attacking who you are playing in twosome.

The Tiger roars take care of the rest of field.

[03EBZ06]

I'm maintaining you play to beat the other guy and Tiger and Jack want to dominate, not just win. Why do you think Jack never cared about seniors golf? They play courses too don't they? Why did Jack retire? Because he couldn't win anymore.
Jack cared enough to win 10 Senior majors and many other events.

[03EBZ06]

Most of the time by Sunday, the two leaders are paired together and it subtly becomes match play. Tiger has a crazy record when winning with lead after 3rd round. He attacks with a match play attack. That is attacking who you are playing in twosome.

The Tiger roars take care of the rest of field.
I know all about the final pairing. Again, where is the defense in golf? Where is any physical contact between the last two in final pairing.

I also follow Tiger and he is 12-0 when leading after 54 holes in majors.

As for intimidation, it's in other players head, Tiger can't physically hurt them, they are intimidated because they believe they can't beat Tiger when he is in the lead.

[Hostile]

I know all about the final pairing. Again, where is the defense in golf? Where is any physical contact between the last two in final pairing.

I also follow Tiger and he is 12-0 when leading after 54 holes in majors.

As for intimidation, it's in other players head, Tiger can't physically hurt them, they are intimidated because they believe they can't beat Tiger when he is in the lead.They'll never get it. We're wasting our time.

[Dallas]

They'll never get it. We're wasting our time.

You think?

What is amazing to me is people keep replying to this rediculous thread and trying to argue IR's point.

Yes - It bothers me seeing what I thought were sane people do this kind of stuff. Is it really that entertaining to keep riding the glue out of the horse?


JEEEBUS !! There I go again.

[D-TownRadio]

Plenty, but not on the professional level. I know people who at the collegiate level, and they say it's pretty much nothing like your average Sunday Morning on the links. Its not just you and the course. You have to keep an eye on the leaderboard and adapt your play to how others are playing. If you're behind, sometimes you're forced to play more aggressive than you normally would.

Have you played on the PGA?
No I haven't but I did place top ten in the UWGT and top 5 in the CEGT I have been top twenty in several Tournys the past 6 years and have also placed in team play. In golf you are playing against alot of things. You are playing against the course and the other players and previous records on the course and individual holes. You are right and wrong because it all depends on how far behind you are and how many holes are left. You don't start playing stupidly to get in first place when 2nd place also pays off and gains you a spot at another tour. Your freinds are either lieing to you or are the dumbest and worst golfers in history. Are you telling me if you have $250,000 in your hand and all you have to do is lay up chip green and then gimme a par three hole to walk away with that kinda money you would risk shanking a ball into the woods for a -2 and lossing out on any kinda pay day? Nope ya don't and even if you where right it wouldn't hold water in this convo because the pats where not comming from behind and going for it all they had a 40 point lead and went for it on forth down. The continued to rush to the line so you can't argue that they where trying to keep the ball to run the time out.

[bbgun]

Why did you have to make a golfing analogy? Now this thread is beset by the Johnny Scratch Golfers.

[03EBZ06]

They'll never get it. We're wasting our time.
Yeah, you are right, I give up.

My last word is, Belicheat couldn't carry Tiger's jock when it comes to integrity and following the rules.

[D-TownRadio]

And if Belichick made his players stop going all out every time they have a big lead ... which is pretty much halftime of every game they've played this year, barring the Cowboys matchup ... there wouldn't be any effects on the team?

Interesting.

The only difference is that someone drew an arbitrary line in the sand and said it's okay to try your best on every stroke in golf, but it's not okay in football. Some choose to follow outdated heuristics, and others question them. No biggie.
What are you talking about? Cowboys where not getting blown out at the half... This makes no sence. It was a tight game right to the end of the 4th and at that point they didn't have to run the ball into the endzone they could have taken a knee and ended the game. Okay I am guessing your argument will be well Wade was taking time outs. Uh yeah because for one he wasn't the one with the lead and two if he just stands there with timeouts what will JJ have to say? come on this is a guy who has fired 3 hall of fame coaches. Damn right he was calling timeouts but he wasn't comming with all out blitzes or anything.

[Nors]

I know all about the final pairing. Again, where is the defense in golf? Where is any physical contact between the last two in final pairing.

I also follow Tiger and he is 12-0 when leading after 54 holes in majors.

As for intimidation, it's in other players head, Tiger can't physically hurt them, they are intimidated because they believe they can't beat Tiger when he is in the lead.


You ever golf at a high level? You can mentally dominate and impose will on your opponent/field. Its a very mental game. Mentally tough players have an advantage.

[Bob Sacamano]

No I haven't but I did place top ten in the UWGT and top 5 in the CEGT I have been top twenty in several Tournys the past 6 years and have also placed in team play. In golf you are playing against alot of things. You are playing against the course and the other players and previous records on the course and individual holes. You are right and wrong because it all depends on how far behind you are and how many holes are left. You don't start playing stupidly to get in first place when 2nd place also pays off and gains you a spot at another tour. Your freinds are either lieing to you or are the dumbest and worst golfers in history. Are you telling me if you have $250,000 in your hand and all you have to do is lay up chip green and then gimme a par three hole to walk away with that kinda money you would risk shanking a ball into the woods for a -2 and lossing out on any kinda pay day? Nope ya don't and even if you where right it wouldn't hold water in this convo because the pats where not comming from behind and going for it all they had a 40 point lead and went for it on forth down. The continued to rush to the line so you can't argue that they where trying to keep the ball to run the time out.

I love you Inman, but you just got owned w/ a capitol O

[Bob Sacamano]

You ever golf at a high level? You can mentally dominate and impose will on your opponent/field. Its a very mental game. Mentally tough players have an advantage.

how so? by scrunching your nose and furrowing your brow at the competition, and sending them nasty text messages right before shots? oh, I know, you flex your muscles before getting off a 560 yard drive, then throw your club down

[Nors]

No I haven't but I did place top ten in the UWGT and top 5 in the CEGT I have been top twenty in several Tournys the past 6 years and have also placed in team play. In golf you are playing against alot of things. You are playing against the course and the other players and previous records on the course and individual holes. You are right and wrong because it all depends on how far behind you are and how many holes are left. You don't start playing stupidly to get in first place when 2nd place also pays off and gains you a spot at another tour. Your freinds are either lieing to you or are the dumbest and worst golfers in history. Are you telling me if you have $250,000 in your hand and all you have to do is lay up chip green and then gimme a par three hole to walk away with that kinda money you would risk shanking a ball into the woods for a -2 and lossing out on any kinda pay day? Nope ya don't and even if you where right it wouldn't hold water in this convo because the pats where not comming from behind and going for it all they had a 40 point lead and went for it on forth down. The continued to rush to the line so you can't argue that they where trying to keep the ball to run the time out.


You have a classic passive golf mentality that may have done well to keep you in the pack in a stroke play format. But I concede players are also playing course to some sense depending on lead.

Tiger and Nicklaus are attacking the course and their opponents in match play mode. In your defense, I could beat many far superior golfers in match play with mental toughness, clutch shots under PRESSURE and gamesmanship but over 72 holes would lose 9 out of 10 times.

There is an element in stroke play to attack but be smart too. I just don't dismiss the impact that Tiger has on his opponent and that he's trying to personally bury him. I think he is.

[JerryFan]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?


I always appreciate your recaps, but WOW. I can't even believe someone who even compare these specific things to what NE does. LOL.

[Hoov]

I was kind of bothered by NE running up the score but now i am just resigned to the fact that they are going to do that. At one point i was actually curious to see just how many they could score.

It will be fun to watch them do that to the eagles. Actually i was talking with a friend who said, let them keep doing it, someone is going to get pissed and take a cheap shot at Brady. Wouldnt be suprised to see a defensive player get upset and take his knee out. How smart wiould bellicheat feel then, having his star QB get hurt when up by 30 plus points.

[Da Hammer]

In tournaments where he has a double digit stroke lead, why is he still trying to make birdie on the final hole? He's obviously trying to show up the other playesrs.

I also noticed Michael Jordan intentionally tried to make his shots when the Bulls were clearly the better team and winning by large margins.

What are we teaching our children? That it's okay to be a whole lot better than the other kids? What about the other kids self esteem? Why can't they all get first place trophies?
this might the dumbest attempt i have ever seen at someone tryin to be a smart-a*s...

[D-TownRadio]

You have a classic passive golf mentality that may have done well to keep you in the pack in a stroke play format. But I concede players are also playing course to some sense depending on lead.

Tiger and Nicklaus are attacking the course and their opponents in match play mode. In your defense, I could beat many far superior golfers in match play with mental toughness, clutch shots under PRESSURE and gamesmanship but over 72 holes would lose 9 out of 10 times.

There is an element in stroke play to attack but be smart too. I just don't dismiss the impact that Tiger has on his opponent and that he's trying to personally bury him. I think he is.
You don't understand, By playing smart you can beat better players when they try stupid things like IR is talking about. They know that as well as you and wouldn't risk it. The point of this isn't golf though I could talk golf all day the point is that it is in no way near the same thing as what Bill and the cheats have been doing. And it's not just running up the points and going for it on 4th with a 40 point lead that pisses people off. It is the fact that the pats cheat take cheap shots they are rude arogant f*cks and have no morals or class what so ever and like LT said it starts at the top with the coach. What kinda person has an afair with a woman then calls and thretens the life of her husband? What kinda person pushes camera men to the ground? What kinda person lies cheats and steals? What kinda person shows a total lack of respect for teams coaches and the NFL as a whole hell the sport of footballl even. What kinda team takes cheap shots? What kinda team takes roids (harison)? This team is trash from top to bottum.

[skinsfunguy]

Either you're trying your hardest and giving your best effort or you're not. People don't have a problem when Tiger is trying his hardest until the very end, even when the outcome is decided and the rest of the field is in the clubhouse, but they expect the Patriots to quit trying their hardest 3/4 into the mach for the sake of sparing someone's feelings. Highly paid professional's feelings.

Golf is an individual sport. It is not like Tiger can pull himself for his backup. The Pats could have put in their backups or at the very least pulled Tom Brady.

[Doomsday101]

Golf is an individual sport. It is not like Tiger can pull himself for his backup. The Pats could have put in their backups or at the very least pulled Tom Brady.

They did with over 8 min left Brady and Moss were both out of the game.

[skinsfunguy]

They did with over 8 min left Brady and Moss were both out of the game.


I'm aware of this but it could have been done much earlier. Brady didnt come out of the game until it was 44-0

[InmanRoshi]

I'm aware of this but it could have been done much earlier. Brady didnt come out of the game until it was 44-0

If you got the Colts coming up the next week, maybe its not a real good idea to get your starters acclimated to playing half a game. Maybe they wanted to use the Skins as practice for the next week. Especially since Greg Williams was playing a lot of Tampa 2, which is what Dungy is known for. If the poor Skins players (or any professional football player) doesn't like being treated as practice fodder, they can get in their Hummers, drive home to their mansions and cry themselves to sleep after the game comforted by the thought that you guys are holding a 24 hour candlelight vigil for them.

[Vtwin]

The problem with a discussion on class and respect is that the people with none cannot understand the concept.Sorta like speaking in foreign language when nobody else in the discussion knows that language.

[Doomsday101]

I'm aware of this but it could have been done much earlier. Brady didnt come out of the game until it was 44-0

He started the drive in the 4th qrt after that drive he came out. So in your view the Pats should have pulled the starters before the 4th qrt? I don't see any team doing that.

[InmanRoshi]

The problem with a discussion on class and respect is that the people with none cannot understand the concept.Sorta like speaking in foreign language when nobody else in the discussion knows that language.

I love it when people lecture about class and respect, while simultaneously throwing personal insults at strangers on an anonymous internet messsageboard. I'm sure the irony was unintentional, but it's still a nice touch.

[Hoofbite]

this thread will never end.....ever...

[redfog]

hahaha what an idiotic analogy


you failed miserably


In football, you switch back and forth on offense. In the other sports you dont, so there's nothing wrong with trying to score in those sports. If Michael Jordan keep busting up threes when theyre up by like 30 points in the 4th then talk to me.

What Bellicheck doing is extremely stupid, he's obviously pimping out the his own team. It's a big F U to the rest of the league and Brady will get owned one day because of this Billicheat guy.