Is this a clean hit?

[Rack Bauer]

Have a "discussion" going on at another board regarding this hit.

Does this look like a clean hit to you?

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3POT8n2Qk3g)

[TheKey]

I voted No simply because it was late. Other than that it looked like Wilfork was tripped up and tried to roll over to avoid contact but he was moving too fast.

[cowboybacker4life]

you can most definitely see wilfork throwing the elbow right at losmans knee

[BoysRule2]

Wilfork was obviously pushed into Losman on the play.

Really, who cares? The Bills are 3-1 after the QB change, with their only loss coming against us, and an impressive W over a good Ravens team.

[cowboybacker4life]

late or not he hit him with an elbow, that was planned

[Rack Bauer]

Wilfork was obviously pushed into Losman on the play.

Really, who cares? The Bills are 3-1 after the QB change, with their only loss coming against us, and an impressive W over a good Ravens team.

1. They changed back to Losman this week.

2. He was pushed, but that doesn't make it ok for him to raise the forearm then thrust it into Losman's knee.

3. Who really cares? You. Since you replied to the thread.

4. As I stated in the first post in this thread, I'm having a discussion with a Pats fan on another board and I wanted input. That should of answered your "Who really cares" question.

[Hostile]

Uh, hell no.

[sillycon]

Yes, he was falling but at the end, you can clearly see him deliberately throwing his elbow into the knee area. They better watch it with their not so clean play because some team might think to try it at Brady....

[SultanOfSix]

Absolutely not. He blatantly swung his elbow right at his knee with what really does seem like an intent to injure. No one tackles with their elbow. He should be suspended.

[LowTech]

that was suppose to be a no vote


:o:

[Daudr]

Late and went for the QB's knees. Per the rules that is a penalty and probably a NFL fine later.

[NorthTexan95]

Of course it's not legal. In the NFL if you even THINK about hitting the QB it's a flag.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not a chance in hell. Yeah, he was pushed but he definatly chicken winged him right to the joint. He could have easily delivered that blow to the hip or thigh. He intentionally targeted the joint. It's not even close.

Hate to see it but it happens in the NFL.

[DragonCowboy]

there is NO way that's a clean hit.

dirty, dirty pats.

[DallasDomination]

What a freaking cheap shot...I hope someone breaks his face.

[silverbear]

Have a "discussion" going on at another board regarding this hit.

Does this look like a clean hit to you?

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3POT8n2Qk3g)

Aw, what's dirty about driving your elbow into somebody else's knee?? :D

[big dog cowboy]

A clean hit? No.

Am I surprised? No.

[Sarge]

I saw this play as it happened on TV and could not believe a penalty was not called. He was tripped, yes, but that elbow didn't need to leave his body and go directly for Losman's knee.

[REDVOLUTION]

Very disturbing.

To me it looked like he took a "spearing" dive. Tighted up his body and put all the power into the elbow. Downright Low!

[Hostile]

Two of you voted that was clean? Are you kidding me?

[03EBZ06]

That was a dirty play, but not surprised with patsies.

[peplaw06]

Wasn't he fined by the league?

That would suggest it's not a clean hit.

[Clove]

Someone may do that to Brady. People are pushed all the time, but you don't extend your elbow directly into someone's knee.

[Nors]

You can see the Center after being beat pushing Wilfork from behind. Looks like he instinctually as going down tried to hit qb. If not pushed thats a 15 yard penalty for a low hit to QB.

he was fined for it but no flag called I believe.

[Rack Bauer]

You can see the Center after being beat pushing Wilfork from behind. Looks like he instinctually as going down tried to hit qb. If not pushed thats a 15 yard penalty for a low hit to QB.

he was fined for it but no flag called I believe.

:rolleyes:

[tomson75]

You can see the Center after being beat pushing Wilfork from behind. Looks like he instinctually as going down tried to hit qb. If not pushed thats a 15 yard penalty for a low hit to QB.

he was fined for it but no flag called I believe.

I find it odd that you're openly critical of Cowboys players, and yet find ample time each day to defend every damn thing a Patriots player does. I can understand rooting for two teams, but the consistency isn't there. I wonder.

There was nothing "instinctual" about that hit. He clearly went out of his way to throw his elbow at Losman's knee. It is a dirty hit. Period. Regardless of whether or not he was pushed by the center. What was his fine? Anything less than $15,000 would be a joke.

[REDVOLUTION]

You can see the Center after being beat pushing Wilfork from behind. Looks like he instinctually as going down tried to hit qb. If not pushed thats a 15 yard penalty for a low hit to QB.


His instinct was to hit the QB low? Ok I agree. Thats bad too if it was instinctual.


I find it odd that you're openly critical of Cowboys players, and yet find ample time each day to defend every damn thing a Patriots player does.

There was nothing "instinctual" about that hit. He clearly went out of his way to throw his elbow at Losman's knee. It is a dirty hit. Period.

I dunno Tom... seems like he called him out on it.


You BOTH confused me :laugh1:

[Rack Bauer]

I find it odd that you're openly critical of Cowboys players, and yet find ample time each day to defend every damn thing a Patriots player does. I can understand rooting for two teams, but the consistency isn't there. I wonder.

There was nothing "instinctual" about that hit. He clearly went out of his way to throw his elbow at Losman's knee. It is a dirty hit. Period. Regardless of whether or not he was pushed by the center. What was his fine? Anything less than $15,000 would be a joke.

He's a patriots fan that also follows the cowboys... what did you expect?

And Wilfork was fined $12,500 for intentionally injuring Losman.

[REDVOLUTION]

He's a patriots fan that also follows the cowboys... what did you expect?

And Wilfork was fined $12,500 for intentionally injuring Losman.

"Torn between two lovers... feeling like a fool.... loving you both IS BREAKING ALL THE RULES"


I think that if you "intentionally" try to or do injure a player that you should have a game or two suspension.

[Rackat]

It was a crap play by a player that clearly went after the knee of the QB. I think he should have lost more than the money, definately a couple game suspension plus the fine. I guess the Pats will have to pull an Albert Haynesworth for anything to be done about it.

[TheCount]

What fool can possibly think that is a clean hit? Even if it was an accident, it was dirty. My first reaction when falling is to put my hands in front of me to slow my fall, not to lead with my elbow. A blow like that can easily end a guys season, much less his career.

[Big Dakota]

He should have been suspended 1 game for that cheap shot.

[koolaid]

hit wasn't "dirty", a big guy moving that fast can't just stop folks, leading with his arm was much better than a helmet

i feel bad for you nors, everything you post is obsessively overanalyzed

[rcaldw]

Dirty hit, no question, the video tape doesn't lie.

[Big Dakota]

hit wasn't "dirty", a big guy moving that fast can't just stop folks, leading with his arm was much better than a helmet

i feel bad for you nors, everything you post is obsessively overanalyzed


Thank you momma Nors

[tomson75]

hit wasn't "dirty", a big guy moving that fast can't just stop folks,

That's true, but a guy moving that fast doesn't need to extend his body and his arm to deliberately hit another player.

leading with his arm was much better than a helmet

Ummmm.....duh. Does that make it OK to do? No.

i feel bad for you nors, everything you post is obsessively overanalyzed

lmao..."obsessively" and "Nors" in the same sentence...and it wasn't referring to him. 96% disagree with you and Nors. Analyze that.

[5Stars]

That was totally wrong! I cannot believe some people think that was accidental or not a dirty play! The guy went for his knee plain as day when he could have just went down because he was not going to get the QB anyway!

Nors, I cannot believe you sometimes! And koolaid thinks it's OK?

:cool:

[REDVOLUTION]

leading with his arm was much better than a helmet



I think in the case of hitting the knee that the helmet would do less damage.

[Big D]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with that hit... if you're a Patriots fan.

[JPM]

Uh, hell no.

Really ? The part that got to me is that he threw an elbow.

[Rackat]

Rack, did you post this at any other team forums? I wonder what their take on it may be? Perhaps Nors and his koolaid are right and we're all wrong. I mean really, only 95% think it was a dirty hit. Maybe that 5% is right? LOL!

[Rampage]

Wilfork was obviously pushed into Losman on the play.

Really, who cares? The Bills are 3-1 after the QB change, with their only loss coming against us, and an impressive W over a good Ravens team.
watch it again. he wasn't pushed into him

[03EBZ06]

Really ? The part that got to me is that he threw an elbow.
I think you've mis-read Hos' response.

The question was:
Is this a clean hit?
Hos replied, um, hell no. Which means he does not believe it was a clean hit.

[Hostile]

I think you've mis-read Hos' response.

The question was:

Hos replied, um, hell no. Which means he does not believe it was a clean hit.
Yep. Anyone who thinks that was clean is a fool.

[Crown Royal]

The elbow is what makes it dirty. Had he just tried to grab at the legs it would have been fine.

[Q_the_man]

I put yes for the simple fact that Wilfolk was tackle from behind by the OL and while breaking his fall he stuck his elbow out and unfortunately he hit Losman knee.....

[5Stars]

I put yes for the simple fact that Wilfolk was tackle from behind by the OL and while breaking his fall he stuck his elbow out and unfortunately he hit Losman knee.....


Well, you are a Quincy Carter fan...so I'll just have to consider the source!

:cool:

[Jammer]

It's real easy to say this was a cheap hit when the video is in super-slow motion, but in game speed there is a change of perspective.

[tomson75]

I put yes for the simple fact that Wilfolk was tackle from behind by the OL and while breaking his fall he stuck his elbow out and unfortunately he hit Losman knee.....

How often do you "break your fall" by extending your arm or elbow out horizontally to the ground? I fall down a lot, and let me tell you, that doesn't work very well.

[Q_the_man]

Well, you are a Quincy Carter fan...so I'll just have to consider the source!

:cool:

actually my nickname is Q, and while he was on the team, I was a fan as I am to every Cowboy on the team today. at least I have a source, lol.

[tomson75]

It's real easy to say this was a cheap hit when the video is in super-slow motion, but in game speed there is a change of perspective.

Yep. It's 95% easier.

[Q_the_man]

How often do you "break your fall" by extending your arm or elbow out horizontally to the ground? I fall down a lot, and let me tell you, that doesn't work very well.

he was breaking his fall but he still had to make a play on the QB and like i said it was unfortunate that it hit his knee.if he never get tackled from behind he never hits Losman's knee, plain and simple

[AsthmaField]

I do think it's undoubtably a cheap shot. It's so clearly a cheap shot, as a matter of fact... that it took me a second to realize you were serious, Rack. I was like.. "Ok. What's the catch?"

I played defense for years and years and you can avoid that kind of hit if you want to. No doubt about it. You don't accidentally aim your elbow at the side of a players knee. Fall into his knee, maybe... but that kind of stuff you can avoid if you want to.

[AsthmaField]

I fall down a lot, and let me tell you, that doesn't work very well.

:laugh2:

I don't know why that struck me as so funny... but it did.

Thanks for the laugh, Mr. Mech-Dolphin.

[Cajuncowboy]

It sure looks obvious to me that he wanted to try and take out his knee. Falling or not, when you thrust out your forearm at the QB's knee, you are trying to injure him. But is this that big of a shock coming from one of the dirtiest teams who don't get punished for the things they do?

So no, it wasn't a clean hit. Did he get a penalty on the play?

[davidyee]

hit wasn't "dirty", a big guy moving that fast can't just stop folks, leading with his arm was much better than a helmet

i feel bad for you nors, everything you post is obsessively overanalyzed

...the penalty wasn't called because he was tripped.

Second league looks at intent to be a determining factor to the severity of the fine. A fine was a guarantee and imposed after the fact because those are the types of plays the league is trying to avoid at all costs so they have a "no tolerance" policy.

I believe the very first instance of this type of fine was based on Mike Singletary's hit on Troy Aikman when he led with his elbow causing Troy to gain his first serious concussion and also splitting his chin wide open so Troy could stick his tongue through the hole.

To defend Wilfork and the push you have to look at the video tape and believe that he had a total loss of control of his body and what he was doing was not in his power to prevent.

If he was pushed from behind there should be an attempt to regain balance and make a "football play".

The league is clear about the use of the helmet, elbows forearms, launching, leg whips, clothes lines, etc. to realize that those are not "football plays" and most of those moves are deliberate or can be stopped.

Based on the video could Wilfork have used any other part of his arm other than the elbow? Was he completely caught unaware with his vision blinded that he could not see he was getting to Losman with his elbow?

Being able to see the target and what part of your body is coming in contact is a good setup to avoid an illegal hit.

I guess you can decide if he had all those options at his disposal.

From what I could see I believe Wilfork realize he was losing his footing, he could see that Losman was within his reach and he extended his elbow, possibly out of frustration for the push, to get to Losman when he knew he was going to the turf.

Was it clear intent from the snap? Most likely not. Was it an illegal hit? IMO , yes. Another change the league has to clear through.

They should make these types of plays a instant penalty regardless. Some innocent players will get the short end of the stick, but fans won't have to witness players going down in terrible circumstances.

[tomson75]

he was breaking his fall

No, he wasn't. He was attempting to "break" something entirely different.

but he still had to make a play on the QB

Yeah, by using the ever so efficient "elbow to the knee tackle". :cool:

and like i said it was unfortunate that it hit his knee.

Yeah, "unfortunate". Riiiiiiight. :rolleyes:

if he never get tackled from behind he never hits Losman's knee, plain and simple

What's your point?

First off, he wasn't tackled, he was pushed and/or held by the center. Second, even if he was, that doesn't justify a cheap shot at the QB.

If it was so "plain and simple", then why did the NFL (and 90+% of the posters on this board) disagree with you? Hmmmmmm....

[tomson75]

:laugh2:

I don't know why that struck me as so funny... but it did.

Thanks for the laugh, Mr. Mech-Dolphin.

I aim to please. ;) :D

[sacase]

He wasn't pushed it looked like the center was almot tackling him. To be honest it appeared he lunged elbow first right at the knee. He could have easily avoided hitting the QB at all. Should have been a penalty and a HUGE fine like 75k+. Hell Woodson got fined 75k for a LEGAL hit.

[davidyee]

he was breaking his fall but he still had to make a play on the QB and like i said it was unfortunate that it hit his knee.if he never get tackled from behind he never hits Losman's knee, plain and simple

...the game of football is not accomplished with the elbow. They are professionals who have had at least more than average training in how to play the game.

In Wilfork's case he has been playing the game since high school so the tally is 10 years of experience at least. (3 years in HS, 3 at college and 4 as a pro.)

He has enough experience to know that what he did was an illegal move. Is he a dirty player, probably not, but what it an illegal move, yes.

[jimmy40]

Have a "discussion" going on at another board regarding this hit.

Does this look like a clean hit to you?

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3POT8n2Qk3g)
I didn't watch it but I'd say a clean hit because nobody would want Losman taken out of a game.

[Doomsday]

Looked like a Buffalo Olinemen grabbed Wilfork's legs which tripped him into Losman's legs. Also looks like I am in the minority in my thinking.

[Nors]

Looked like a Buffalo Olinemen grabbed Wilfork's legs which tripped him into Losman's legs. Also looks like I am in the minority in my thinking.

No thats what happened, Oline tripped up and pushed Wilfork into Losman. It happens real fast and its tough to see Wilforks real intention. Probably a combination of instincts to break fall and hit QB at same time. No flag thrown but a fine.

Its a borderline hit, now had he not been pushed into Losman its a clear cheap shot.

[kbman]

That looked dirty to me.....

[Hoofbite]

the question isn't if wilfork purposely dove into the knees. he had some help no doubt but his blatantly obvious and perfectly placed elbow is what makes the hit cheap.

just about as cheap as they come IMO. pretty sure he was fined wasn't he?

[tomson75]

No thats what happened, Oline tripped up and pushed Wilfork into Losman. It happens real fast and its tough to see Wilforks real intention. Probably a combination of instincts to break fall and hit QB at same time. No flag thrown but a fine.

Its a borderline hit, now had he not been pushed into Losman its a clear cheap shot.

lmao....so now Olinemen are deliberately pushing defenders INTO their Qb's...brilliant!

[Hostile]

That looked dirty to me.....It was. Anyone who thinks differently should be hit the same way themselves.

[Doomsday]

lmao....so now Olinemen are deliberately pushing defenders INTO their Qb's...brilliant!

Come on thats not what he is saying. If you look at Wilfork's feet as he is falling you can clearly see the Oline is tackling him.

[Nors]

lmao....so now Olinemen are deliberately pushing defenders INTO their Qb's...brilliant!

rewatch it he pushed Wilfork right at Losman

[Hoofbite]

No thats what happened, Oline tripped up and pushed Wilfork into Losman. It happens real fast and its tough to see Wilforks real intention. Probably a combination of instincts to break fall and hit QB at same time. No flag thrown but a fine.

Its a borderline hit, now had he not been pushed into Losman its a clear cheap shot.


who tries to break their fall with their elbows?

and who in the world tries to make a play on a QB with their elbow?

[5Stars]

Come on thats not what he is saying. If you look at Wilfork's feet as he is falling you can clearly see the Oline is tackling him.


So what, he's getting tackled?!! Why did he extend his elbow RIGHT TOWARDS the knee of Losman?

He did not try to "grab" the knee with his hand, he "elbowed" the friggen knee...plain as day!

I cannot believe how anyone can say this was a clean hit, or not an intentional hit.

Why didn't he try and grab the feet of Losman if he wanted to make a play? No, he aimed for the knee...open your eyes for once.

:cool:

[ABQCOWBOY]

No thats what happened, Oline tripped up and pushed Wilfork into Losman. It happens real fast and its tough to see Wilforks real intention. Probably a combination of instincts to break fall and hit QB at same time. No flag thrown but a fine.

Its a borderline hit, now had he not been pushed into Losman its a clear cheap shot.

I don't agree with this. Nothing boarderline about it. He didn't have to stick his arm out at all. In fact, when you are falling with people around you like that, you try not to extend your arm because it's real easy to get it broken or get a shoulder hurt. It's something you learn when playing in the line or playing RB. IMO, there was nothing boarderline about this. IMO, he extended his arm in an akward angle, and rather then reaching for the closest point of contact to try and balance himself or break his fall. He didn't do that. He extended to impact the most vulnerable point (knee joint). Calling this anything other then intentional is just not a realistic representation of what the video shows IMO.

[5Stars]

rewatch it he pushed Wilfork right at Losman


So what? He got pushed? Does that make any difference to why he extened his elbow towards Losman's knee?


Sheesshhhh....freaking amazing.


:cool:

[tomson75]

Come on thats not what he is saying. If you look at Wilfork's feet as he is falling you can clearly see the Oline is tackling him.

Correct...as I have clearly agreed with in my previous posts.

However, Nors' ability to put the blame on the center is laughable. He clearly states that he pushed Wilfork INTO the QB...which simply isn't the case. He was trying to get him to the ground. I'm not saying that the center's actions were without consequence, as he was holding Wilfork badly, but that he wasn't doing anything that doesn't occur mutiple times in every football game...only in this case, the defender felt it necessary to throw his elbow into the mix. If he had just fallen into the QB with his body it isn't a cheap shot, but he didn't...and that is inexcusable.

[LeonDixson]

We debated that on this board right after that game. You can see him lunge and deliberately drive his elbow into the knee. Look at it this way; if he was trying to make a tackle he would have reached out with his hands. You can reach further with your hands than you can with your elbow. He was trying to take him out of the game.

[tomson75]

rewatch it he pushed Wilfork right at Losman

I'll watch this a thousand times, and still know that he didn't deliberately push his QB into Losman.


Was he pushed? Yes. Was he held? Yes. Was the center trying to keep Wilfork away from Losman? Yes. Would he then push a defender at Losman? No. Did he create a situation where the defender was falling towards his QB? Yes. Does this justify the defender sticking his elbow into the QB's knee? No.

These aren't difficult questions to answer.

[Doomsday]

Guess I didnt notice his elbow the first few times I watched. It does look like he was looking at Losman and then stuck his elbow up at Losman's knee.

[jimmy40]

Have a "discussion" going on at another board regarding this hit.

Does this look like a clean hit to you?

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3POT8n2Qk3g)
Are you running this same poll on that board?

[DallasCowboysRule!]

I'm gonna give Wilfork the benefit of the doubt on this one. It looked like a lineman tripped him up at the line and he fell into Losman's knee. There's not much you can do about that.

[Nors]

The same as being blocked into the punter is not a foul.

Player was pushed and tackled towards QB. His instinct is also to hit QB and or brace for fall, It was not flagged and I doubt in that 1/10 of a second he was trying to take out his knee but made a football move.

[BoysRule2]

Guess I didnt notice his elbow the first few times I watched. It does look like he was looking at Losman and then stuck his elbow up at Losman's knee.

:confused: You mean when you go try to sack a QB, you have to turn your head and look somewhere else?

[Doomsday]

:confused: You mean when you go try to sack a QB, you have to turn your head and look somewhere else?

No what I am saying is that at first I just noticed that Wilfork was being tackled by the Olinemen and it looked like he was just off balance and fell into Losman's knees. Upon further review it looks like he knew exactly where he was falling and purposely stuck out his elbow in the direction of Losman's knees.

[Nors]

No what I am saying is that at first I just noticed that Wilfork was being tackled by the Olinemen and it looked like he was just off balance and fell into Losman's knees. Upon further review it looks like he knew exactly where he was falling and purposely stuck out his elbow in the direction of Losman's knees.

This could go either way - only Wilfork knows what his intentions were.

[Rack Bauer]

I didn't watch it but I'd say a clean hit because nobody would want Losman taken out of a game.

:laugh2:

No thats what happened, Oline tripped up and pushed Wilfork into Losman. It happens real fast and its tough to see Wilforks real intention. Probably a combination of instincts to break fall and hit QB at same time. No flag thrown but a fine.

Its a borderline hit, now had he not been pushed into Losman its a clear cheap shot.

:rolleyes:

It's official... Nors is a Pats fan. Now there's absolutely no doubt about it.

It was. Anyone who thinks differently should be hit the same way themselves.

:hammer:

Come on thats not what he is saying. If you look at Wilfork's feet as he is falling you can clearly see the Oline is tackling him.

He did get pushed/held but at the last second he lunges forward. If his intent were to "make a football play" then he would of reached out with his hands. He stuck an elbow out and aimed it at Losman's knee. That's the dirty part.

Guess I didnt notice his elbow the first few times I watched. It does look like he was looking at Losman and then stuck his elbow up at Losman's knee.

:hammer:

Are you running this same poll on that board?

No but I will.

The same as being blocked into the punter is not a foul.

Player was pushed and tackled towards QB. His instinct is also to hit QB and or brace for fall, It was not flagged and I doubt in that 1/10 of a second he was trying to take out his knee but made a football move.


It's funny (not really) how Nors keeps disregarding (*see "Ignoring") the elbow being lunged out at Losman's knee at the end of the play.


I wish I'd made this a poll so we can see what fools actually think this is a clean play.

[Rack Bauer]

This could go either way - only Wilfork knows what his intentions were.

Wilfork's intentions are obvious to almost everyone.

Not expecting a Pats fan (that's YOU, Nors) to see it any other way.

[CowboyFan74]

Dirtier than a truck stop bath room. Reminds me of how the steAlers got to the super bowl over Carson Palmer..

[silverbear]

Two of you voted that was clean? Are you kidding me?


Pats trolls... apparently, we have 13 of 'em... ;)

[silverbear]

He's a patriots fan that also follows the cowboys... what did you expect?

And Wilfork was fined $12,500 for intentionally injuring Losman.

The NFL needs a new rule-- if you're flagged for a personal foul and your foul injures a player, you are suspended until such time as the player you hurt is ready to return to action...

[silverbear]

hit wasn't "dirty", a big guy moving that fast can't just stop folks, leading with his arm was much better than a helmet

i feel bad for you nors, everything you post is obsessively overanalyzed


Maybe you can go kiss his boo-boo, make it all better... :cool:

[silverbear]

Rack, did you post this at any other team forums? I wonder what their take on it may be? Perhaps Nors and his koolaid are right and we're all wrong. I mean really, only 95% think it was a dirty hit.

Actually, 90.2 per cent... let's not exaggerate here... LOL...

[silverbear]

Yep. Anyone who thinks that was clean is a fool.

That's simply not true...

I'm a fool, and I KNOW it was a dirty hit...

You owe us fools an apology... I'm thinking of getting hold of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, and organizing a protest against your biased slurs...

I'm thinking we can hold it the Cat House... :p:

[silverbear]

No thats what happened, Oline tripped up and pushed Wilfork into Losman. It happens real fast and its tough to see Wilforks real intention. Probably a combination of instincts to break fall and hit QB at same time. No flag thrown but a fine.

Its a borderline hit, now had he not been pushed into Losman its a clear cheap shot.

Nors, that's just ASININE... as another poster comically said, I've done my fair share of falling (or getting knocked) down... not once in all those times did I extend my freaking ELBOW to break the fall... those who do that wind up with broken elbows...

What clearly happened was the guy DELIBERATELY threw an elbow as he was going down, and that is nothing but a cheap shot...

[silverbear]

The same as being blocked into the punter is not a foul.

Player was pushed and tackled towards QB. His instinct is also to hit QB

With his ELBOW??

Somehow, I don't think he was ever taught THAT technique...

And you wonder why some in here are completely certain that you're a Pats fan masquerading as a Cowboys fan... even I'm startin' to doubt your bona fides on this one...

[silverbear]

No what I am saying is that at first I just noticed that Wilfork was being tackled by the Olinemen and it looked like he was just off balance and fell into Losman's knees. Upon further review it looks like he knew exactly where he was falling and purposely stuck out his elbow in the direction of Losman's knees.


There ya go-- he WAS taken down by the blocker, but that in no way explains hitting Losman squarely on the side of the knee (the most vulnerable part of the knee) with his frickin' elbow...

The intent there was to injure the QB, period...

[davidyee]

...but take a look at the Eagles game at the 51 second mark of the third quarter.


Ware beats his man around the edge, but is pushed from behind. As he is struggling to hold his balance 4 inches from the ground he wraps up McNabb's ankles.

McNabb tries to get away, but was eventually called "in the grasp" and the play blown dead as a sack.

Ware was just as off balance as Wilfork ever was and we all know that Ware moves as fast as Vince ever will, but he was able to control enough of his body not to use anything else but his arms in a safe and legal manner.

[Hostile]

...but take a look at the Eagles game at the 51 second mark of the third quarter.


Ware beats his man around the edge, but is pushed from behind. As he is struggling to hold his balance 4 inches from the ground he wraps up McNabb's ankles.

McNabb tries to get away, but was eventually called "in the grasp" and the play blown dead as a sack.

Ware was just as off balance as Wilfork ever was and we all know that Ware moves as fast as Vince ever will, but he was able to control enough of his body not to use anything else but his arms in a safe and legal manner.Did he dive forward at his knees or raise his elbow?

When you fall do you put your hands down automatically in a vain attempt to cushion your fall, or do you raise your elbows to keep them from getting scraped?