No link, this was emailed to me.

[Jarv]

This is what being a democrat means. Official vote of Senate to make English the Official
Language for America. Remember this on election day.






All that voted here were Democrats with the exception of one Republican!!

Subject: Official Language Vote

Be sure to read the last quote!

33 Senators Voted Against English as America 's Official Language June 6,

2007

On Wed, 6 June 2007 23:35:23 -0500, "Colonel Harry Riley USA ret" wrote:

Senators,



Your vote against an amendment to the Immigration Bill 1348, to make

English America's official language is astounding. On D-Day no less when we

honor those that sacrificed in order to secure the bedrock character and

principles of America . I can only surmise your vote reflects a loyalty to

illegal aliens.

I don't much care where you come from, what your religion is, whether

you're black, white or some other color, male or female, democrat,

republican or independent, but I do care when you're a United States

Senator, representing citizens of America and vote against English as the

official language of the United States

Your vote reflects betrayal, political surrender, violates your pledge of

allegiance, dishonors historical principle, rejects patriotism, borders on

traitorous action and, in my opinion, makes you unfit to serve as a United

States Senator... impeachment, recall, or other appropriate action is

warranted.

Worse, 4 of you voting against English as America 's official language are

presidential candidates: Senator Biden, Senator Clinton, Senator Dodd, and

Senator Obama.

Those 4 Senators vying to lead America but won't, or don't have the

courage, to cast a vote in favor of English as America's official language

when 91% of American citizens want English officially designated as our

language. This is the second time in the last several months this list of Senators have disgraced themselves as political hacks... unworthy as Senators and certainly unqualified to serve as President of the United States.

If America is as angry as I am, you will realize a back-lash so stunning it

will literally rock you out of your panties... and preferably, totally out

of the United States Senate.

The entire immigration bill is a farce... your action only confirms this

really isn't about America ; it's about self-serving politics... despicable

at best.

Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you

with experience." ~ anonymous





The following senators voted against making English the official language

of America :

Akaka (D-HI)

Bayh (D-IN)

Biden (D-DE) Wants to be President?

Bingaman (D-NM)

Boxer (D-CA)

Cantwell (D-WA)

Clinton (D-NY) Wants to be President?

Dayton (D-MN)

Dodd (D-CT) Wants to be President?

Domenici (R-NM) Coward, protecting his Senate seat..

Durbin (D-IL)

Feingold (D-WI) Not unusual for him

Feinstein (D-CA)

Harkin (D-IA)

Inouye (D-HI)

Jeffo rds (I-VT)

Kennedy (D-MA)

Kerry (D-MA) Wanted to be President

Kohl (D-WI)

Lautenberg (D-NJ)

Leahy (D-VT)

Levin (D-MI)

Lieberman (D-CT) Disappointment here.....

Menendez (D-NJ)

Mikulski (D-MD)

Murray (D-WA)

Obama (D-IL) Wants to be President?

Reed (D-RI)

Reid (D-NV) Senate Majority Leader

Salazar (D-CO)

Sarbanes (D-MD)

Schumer (D-NY)

Stabenow (D-M)



"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale,

and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or

hanged."

President Abraham Lincoln " Amen "

Please forward to as many people as you know. WE NEED THIS INFORMATION

PASSED ON TO EVERY RED-BLOODED AMERICAN!!!!!!

[burmafrd]

What do you expect from Liberals? They mostly hate America, our culture, our military, etc. Of course they hate English as well. It would SHOCK me if they had acted in any other way.

[Rackat]

Has this passed the snopes test?

[jterrell]

Has this passed the snopes test?

Its completely true.
Senate votes are easily verified.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00131

Those who voted against it did so because they represent states where civil services are offered in Spanish.

There was a second, competing bill passed at the same time calling for some differences and thus making English the official language was kind of a mess.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/washington/19immig.html


WASHINGTON, May 18 — The Senate voted on Thursday to designate English as the national language. In a charged debate, Republican backers of the proposal, which was added to the Senate's immigration measure on a 63-to-34 vote, said that it was equivalent to establishing a formal national anthem or motto and that it would simply affirm the pre-eminence of English without overturning laws or rules on bilingualism.

"We're free to say what we want, speak what we want, but it is our national language," said Senator Lamar Alexander, Republican of Tennessee. The amendment was proposed by Senator James M. Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma.

It is not clear, though, that the measure will be included in any final bill after negotiations with the House. Shortly after the Inhofe amendment was approved, the Senate also approved a weaker, less-binding alternative declaring English the "common and unifying" language of the nation, on a 58-to-39 vote. The question of which version survives would be decided in negotiations with the House.

The second amendment was proposed by Senator Ken Salazar of Colorado, one of several Democrats who said the Inhofe measure was needlessly divisive and would reduce multilingual government programs.

"We are taking a step backward from the progress America has made," Mr. Salazar said.

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic leader, said the Inhofe amendment was racist.

"Everybody who speaks with an accent knows that they need to learn English just as fast as they can," he said.

Under the Inhofe proposal, the federal government is directed to "preserve and enhance the role of English as the national language of the United States of America." It does not go as far as proposals to designate English the nation's official language, which would require all government publications and business to be in English.

Instead, it says government services and publications now offered in other languages would be unaffected. But the proposal declares that no one has "a right, entitlement or claim to have the government of the United States or any of its officials or representatives act, communicate, perform or provide services or provide materials in any language other than English."

Critics said they fear the directive could lead government agencies to scale back their bilingual efforts, cause discrimination against people who do not speak English, disrupt emergency operations in communities with populations of immigrants and have other unintended consequences.

Mr. Inhofe, who is proficient in Spanish from his days as a pilot in Mexico, said critics were exaggerating the potential effects of his plan. His plan would also stiffen the language rules for immigrants seeking to qualify for citizenship under the new legislation, requiring them to demonstrate English proficiency and understanding of American history and government rather than simply to enroll in a language class.

President Bush, speaking about immigration on Thursday on a trip to Arizona, reiterated that under his proposal illegal immigrants would have to learn English. "If you learn English, and you're a hard worker, and you have a dream, you have the capacity from going from picking crops to owning the store, or from sweeping office floors to being an office manager," Mr. Bush said.

The House did not include a similar provision on English in the legislation it passed in December, but there is strong support among House Republicans for such a move.

Despite the clash over language, advocates of a broad immigration measure combining border protection with the possibility of citizenship for qualifying illegal immigrants successfully fought off repeated efforts to alter the measure.

In a crucial showdown, the Senate voted, 58 to 35, late Thursday to reject an amendment that authors of the legislation said would gut their bill by prohibiting temporary workers and many illegal immigrants from seeking permanent residency.

The Senate reversed a decision it made on Wednesday about how temporary workers could apply for permanent residency. The Senate initially voted to require that such applications come just from employers. But some senators said they had misgivings that the requirement would give employers too much power over workers. On Thursday, senators voted to give workers the ability to apply for permanent residency on their own if they have been working in the country for at least four years.

The Senate retained a requirement that a green card be granted only if the Labor Department certified a need for workers.

Immigrant groups praised the reversal. But some advocates for immigrants retained grave concerns about the emerging legislation.

Mary Bauer, director of the immigrant justice project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, said immigrants who participated in existing guest worker programs were frequently exploited. She said the programs failed to ensure that employers offered fair pay and housing.

[jterrell]

the irony here of course is that harry riley runs presidentbushblog.com
and that his heated op-ed moment was over a year after the actual votes.

votes which were meaningless btw because of the competing bills but also because the House never even considered the bill.

[jterrell]

Jarv,

You need to get on different email lists:)
That's plain old Tom DeLay nonsense there.

[BrAinPaiNt]

A law to say English is the official language is not needed IMO.

No not because I think other areas need to stay open to spanish language or any liberal program.

It is just not needed IMO.

It is nothing more than a political stunt that is not needed.

I don't think we need a law to have an OFFICIAL language.

By the same token i don't think any business or service should be required by law to offer itself with other languages and signs.

That should be purely up to the businesses and services.

[iceberg]

A law to say English is the official language is not needed IMO.

No not because I think other areas need to stay open to spanish language or any liberal program.

It is just not needed IMO.

It is nothing more than a political stunt that is not needed.

I don't think we need a law to have an OFFICIAL language.

By the same token i don't think any business or service should be required by law to offer itself with other languages and signs.

That should be purely up to the businesses and services.

granted - if it ever gets to be a big enough issue, they could be enough minority votes to overturn it anyway. my question for now is how many countries *do* have an official language?

[ConcordCowboy]

A law to say English is the official language is not needed IMO.

No not because I think other areas need to stay open to spanish language or any liberal program.

It is just not needed IMO.

It is nothing more than a political stunt that is not needed.

I don't think we need a law to have an OFFICIAL language.

By the same token i don't think any business or service should be required by law to offer itself with other languages and signs.

That should be purely up to the businesses and services.

Agreed...but that's not the case.

You see Spanish signs everywhere.

Sorry but you're in the U.S....we speak English here and so should you if you want to live here.

I wouldn't go to Mexico and expect them to put every sign or whatever in English as well as Spanish.

Except in the tourist areas.:D

[iceberg]

Agreed...but that's not the case.

You see Spanish signs everywhere.

Sorry but you're in the U.S....we speak English here and so should you if you want to live here.

I wouldn't go to Mexico and expect them to put every sign or whatever in English as well as Spanish.

Except in the tourist areas.:D

this was my point when i got into it about "merry christmas". you come to america, expect to see american traditionas. a concept so hard to understand by those who think they can appease everyone.

[ConcordCowboy]

this was my point when i got into it about "merry christmas". you come to america, expect to see american traditionas. a concept so hard to understand by those who think they can appease everyone.

Not saying Merry Christmas is stupid and should have NEVER ever been allowed to happen.


Oh and by the way...

MERRY CHRISTMAS Ice!

:D

[iceberg]

Not saying Merry Christmas is stupid and should have NEVER ever been allowed to happen.


Oh and by the way...

MERRY CHRISTMAS Ice!

:D

you have offended my roman catholic upbringing. wait, no you didn't. DOH!

you go to a country, you expect to see that countrys culture. if it bugs you, don't go. simple really.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Agreed...but that's not the case.

You see Spanish signs everywhere.

Sorry but you're in the U.S....we speak English here and so should you if you want to live here.

I wouldn't go to Mexico and expect them to put every sign or whatever in English as well as Spanish.

Except in the tourist areas.:D

Are those signs REQUIRED BY LAW? If so than I don't like that, however if the business just decides to do it, that is their prerogative.


Now there may be some rare exceptions, like in immigration offices to help process immigrants into the US.

[iceberg]

Are those signs REQUIRED BY LAW? If so than I don't like that, however if the business just decides to do it, that is their prerogative.

Now there may be some rare exceptions, like in immigration offices to help process immigrants into the US.

i'm with you on this one. seattle's airport has signs up in many asian languages as well. in places where so many cultures do come through you can either put up signs and hope they read or you can hire people to do nothing but translate. business call 100%

[burmafrd]

Actually most countries DO have an official language (some more then one).


http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0855611.html

[silverbear]

Another totally stupid "issue"...

Whether or not English is the official language of this country, I've lived here for 50 years (I spent 5 years in Germany, in 2 different stretches), and not once in those 50 years have I had a problem communicating using English...

If that ever becomes a problem, I might revisit this "issue", but until then, I really don't give a bleep... I didn't even bother looking at the list of those who voted against the bill, simply because how anybody voted on this one will never, ever factor into my decision regarding who to vote for...

Just like I won't vote for anybody based on their position on gay rights, or flag burning, all those wedge issues... I simply don't care about these issues, and resent my government wasting their time on them when they should be concentrating on the critical issues facing this country...

I have a list of issues that I do consider important, and my vote will be for those candidates whose positions most closely align with my own on those issues...

[jterrell]

we made it 100 years without an official language.

In fact we edited and altered English.

I say screw calling our official language English and call it Americanese!!!
Please make sure my point is emailed to every hot-blooded american....
hahaha.

Jarv, email like this is called spam:)

[ConcordCowboy]

you have offended my roman catholic upbringing. wait, no you didn't. DOH!

you go to a country, you expect to see that countrys culture. if it bugs you, don't go. simple really.


Since you were offended.:D


http://lloydyweb.com/blog/_gfx/061224_merrychristmas.jpg

[ConcordCowboy]

Are those signs REQUIRED BY LAW? If so than I don't like that, however if the business just decides to do it, that is their prerogative.


Now there may be some rare exceptions, like in immigration offices to help process immigrants into the US.

I don't know if all of them are required by Law...but some would seem to be.

In Florida who has a large Spanish speaking population...OK there are signs...But here in Northeast Ohio?

We hardly have a large Spanish speaking population here.

Honestly...even in Florida I thinks it's BS.

[jterrell]

I don't know if all of them are required by Law...but some would seem to be.

In Florida who has a large Spanish speaking population...OK there are signs...But here in Northeast Ohio?

We hardly have a large Spanish speaking population here.

Honestly...even in Florida I thinks it's BS.

I know the stop signs need to be in Spanish....

I grew up in the inner city and there were small neighborhoods I was scared to drive through because stop signs were optionally obeyed, lol.

and Basura means trash. might wanna keep those in spanish too unless you don't want your stuff picked up after hours.

[zrinkill]

Merry Christmas everyone.

[03EBZ06]

I simply don't care about these issues, and resent my government wasting their time on them when they should be concentrating on the critical issues facing this country...
But if enough of people did care about those issues then it becomes politician's issues

So, I gather enough of people believes it (english language) is an issue, therefore a bill was introduced and politicians had to vote on it.

What might not be a non-issue to you, may be an issue to others.

[AbeBeta]

"If the King's English was good enough for , it's good enough for the children of Texas!"

[iceberg]

Another totally stupid "issue"...

Whether or not English is the official language of this country, I've lived here for 50 years (I spent 5 years in Germany, in 2 different stretches), and not once in those 50 years have I had a problem communicating using English...

If that ever becomes a problem, I might revisit this "issue", but until then, I really don't give a bleep... I didn't even bother looking at the list of those who voted against the bill, simply because how anybody voted on this one will never, ever factor into my decision regarding who to vote for...

Just like I won't vote for anybody based on their position on gay rights, or flag burning, all those wedge issues... I simply don't care about these issues, and resent my government wasting their time on them when they should be concentrating on the critical issues facing this country...

I have a list of issues that I do consider important, and my vote will be for those candidates whose positions most closely align with my own on those issues...

so what harm would it do to make it official?

[iceberg]

I know the stop signs need to be in Spanish....

I grew up in the inner city and there were small neighborhoods I was scared to drive through because stop signs were optionally obeyed, lol.

and Basura means trash. might wanna keep those in spanish too unless you don't want your stuff picked up after hours.

i've seen all creeds, races, genders, sexual orientations and so on ignore them. it's like everyone is taught stop signs mean slow down "some" and if they have a white border, they're optional anyway.

[arglebargle]

As I recall, at its inception the USA was two votes away from having German as its 'official language'. Not exactly mandated from heaven.....

I have heard the arguement that a single language does tie a country's people tighter together. And that the language/cultural divide is part of the thing that can foment trouble and even civil war. Which have to be considered seriously. But the circumstances that really lead to second generation assimilation of immigrants in the past are just not there for a lot of hispanic immigration, and that has nothing to do with any official adaptions to other languages.

[iceberg]

As I recall, at its inception the USA was two votes away from having German as its 'official language'. Not exactly mandated from heaven.....

I have heard the arguement that a single language does tie a country's people tighter together. And that the language/cultural divide is part of the thing that can foment trouble and even civil war. Which have to be considered seriously. But the circumstances that really lead to second generation assimilation of immigrants in the past are just not there for a lot of hispanic immigration, and that has nothing to do with any official adaptions to other languages.

really? did not know that. were there that many germans alone that migrated here initially?

i think the division is fine *if* people respected each other's rights. instead, we get to thinking my way is better than yours.

i deserve more than what i have and the man next to me so i'll take it.

cater to the main or demand it caters to you? which will likely cause more problems?

[BrAinPaiNt]

"If the King's English was good enough for , it's good enough for the children of Texas!"

I thought he spoke a different language.;)

[silverbear]

But if enough of people did care about those issues then it becomes politician's issues

So, I gather enough of people believes it (english language) is an issue, therefore a bill was introduced and politicians had to vote on it.

What might not be a non-issue to you, may be an issue to others.

The Republican party, knowing that it is always in the minority when it comes to registered voters, has long pushed such wedge issues... they figure if they get all the reactionaries who care about what our official language is, who care about the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, who care about prayer in schools, who care about the burning of flags, then eventually they'll line up enough people to win an election...

This is the ONLY reason they keep bringing up such wedge issues, and is yet another reason why I have a problem with the GOP these days... Congress should not be wasting their time on such frivolous debates...

Like I said, gimme the guys who worry more about the war, terrorism, the economy, the environment... those are the legislators who have their priorities in order...

Yes, some MORONS care about the weirdest crapola... that doesn't mean our government should be wasting their time on it...

[silverbear]

so what harm would it do to make it official?

No "harm" at all... but why in God's name is Congress wasting their time on such a silly "issue"??

[iceberg]

No "harm" at all... but why in God's name is Congress wasting their time on such a silly "issue"??

to keep them from passing stupid bills to give away our money.

[burmafrd]

Ihave been in several parts of the US, not just florida, where there was no one in a shop or store that spoke english that was recognizeable. Silver, you must really lead a sheltered life to have never run into that. The reason English should be the official language is that we need to FORCE a lot of the newer illegals and legals to LEARN english. Too many cities are making it easy for them to not do so- which is WRONG. You come here, you obey our laws, you speak our language.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Ihave been in several parts of the US, not just florida, where there was no one in a shop or store that spoke english that was recognizeable. Silver, you must really lead a sheltered life to have never run into that. The reason English should be the official language is that we need to FORCE a lot of the newer illegals and legals to LEARN english. Too many cities are making it easy for them to not do so- which is WRONG. You come here, you obey our laws, you speak our language.

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You think making english the official language is going to force others to speak it.

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[AbeBeta]

Ihave been in several parts of the US, not just florida, where there was no one in a shop or store that spoke english that was recognizeable. Silver, you must really lead a sheltered life to have never run into that. The reason English should be the official language is that we need to FORCE a lot of the newer illegals and legals to LEARN english. Too many cities are making it easy for them to not do so- which is WRONG. You come here, you obey our laws, you speak our language.

I think it is incredible ignorant to believe that every single person who comes here CAN learn the language to a level that you would find acceptable. Language learning gets harder and harder as you get older and if you don't have much formal education in your own language, you are going to have an even harder time learning English. Kids usually do fine in picking up the language but adults are going to have a hell of a time.

Another FACT is that English is a very complex language when compared to Spanish -- different structure, different rules, and very few similarities in grammar. German immigrants didn't have as hard a time as English more closely related to German.

I know that folks are going to say "well they need to work harder to learn" -- but that simply isn't a realistic solution. The fact is that most immigrants WANT to speak and understand English better. Do you really think that folks want to have to call their kids to help them read instructions or to help them fill out forms? Do you have any clue as to how humiliating that is for non-English speakers and how scary it is to live in a world where you don't know *** is going on half the time because you don't grasp the language?

[arglebargle]

Army Language School said that English was the second hardest language to learn. 'Chinese in a year or English in six months' was the quote I heard.

And I think it has always been the children and the second generation that really picks things up. I had a friend who taught English to Vietnamese refugees in the aftermath of the Vietnam war. He said he classes were mostly filled with the kids, not the elders, and the kids did all the translation for their parents, etc.

I am not sure how making English the 'official language' will actually do much. The elders aren't going to learn it that well, and the kids will. It is not a speedy process, but it is what it is....

[iceberg]

I think it is incredible ignorant to believe that every single person who comes here CAN learn the language to a level that you would find acceptable. Language learning gets harder and harder as you get older and if you don't have much formal education in your own language, you are going to have an even harder time learning English. Kids usually do fine in picking up the language but adults are going to have a hell of a time.

Another FACT is that English is a very complex language when compared to Spanish -- different structure, different rules, and very few similarities in grammar. German immigrants didn't have as hard a time as English more closely related to German.

I know that folks are going to say "well they need to work harder to learn" -- but that simply isn't a realistic solution. The fact is that most immigrants WANT to speak and understand English better. Do you really think that folks want to have to call their kids to help them read instructions or to help them fill out forms? Do you have any clue as to how humiliating that is for non-English speakers and how scary it is to live in a world where you don't know *** is going on half the time because you don't grasp the language?

one of my favorite things to tell people in life is to NOT put yourself in a situation you can't handle. don't pull your car into a crowded intersection and HOPE things clear up for you and the light changes so you can get out and not be in the way.

don't drink too much and drive and then use "well i drank too much" as an excuse. YOUR CHOICE.

so why do they come here and put themselves in a situation as you describe KNOWING this is a predominately English speaking nation?

I've asked this of you before but you stayed true to your way of just saying *we* must change - name me another country in this world who will cater to those not from there in such a manner?

mexico?
russia?
china?
japan?
germany?

if *I CHOOSE TO GO* to another country it is simply NOT out of line to expect to learn their ways, language and customs. it would NOT be realistic to expect the country to cater to me.

when i see a stupid head up the arse driver who's on the phone and is about to miss their exit come flying over 2-3 lanes, is it my responsibility to look out for them and have to stop? the lane is ending in a merge and people are leap-frogging over a few cars hoping to wedge in at the last minute. my responsibility to let them in?

DON'T MAKE YOUR SELF-INFLICTED PROBLEM MINE.

the immigrants chose to come here - maybe i'm the bad guy here but yes, i expect them to work towards OUR culture, not us back into their own.

i understand their situation ab and yes, there are likely things we can and will do to help. but that doesn't mean we suddenly become a 6 language country. when i go into 7-11 i shouldn't have to order in spanish or ask for someone's help to read what something is because the store is all in spanish now, should i? do you have any idea how humiliating it would be for me to have to have help figuring out the price of something in my own town?

i'm sorry they're having a hard time here. i'll be glad to help some people find the proper avenues of getting help to learn to read. and before you pop off and say something insulting, understand my mother spent 35+ years of her own life doing volunteer and modest pay tutoring to hispanics and minorities and *anyone* who simply needed help reading and with basic english skills. but they had to want that help or what good will it do? she was an incredible lady who was selfless in so many aspects and each day i hope i still learn more and more from her even with her now gone. i will be glad to help these people learn to not be so embarassed or upset.

i'll help them or help them find proper help if i can't.

but i'm not out of line, to me, to expect people who CHOOSE OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL to come to this country to learn how to function here.

if we make everything *easy* on them maybe we're being the nice guy and can pat ourselves on the back with love. or maybe we're putting away our own culture so people don't have to learn it despite coming here.

[iceberg]

Army Language School said that English was the second hardest language to learn. 'Chinese in a year or English in six months' was the quote I heard.

And I think it has always been the children and the second generation that really picks things up. I had a friend who taught English to Vietnamese refugees in the aftermath of the Vietnam war. He said he classes were mostly filled with the kids, not the elders, and the kids did all the translation for their parents, etc.

I am not sure how making English the 'official language' will actually do much. The elders aren't going to learn it that well, and the kids will. It is not a speedy process, but it is what it is....

it won't do much but put something next to that checkbox.

i think a bulk of the people who come here *do* expect to learn how to function in the country as we have it. i'm also sure there are some that will have a rough go of it. but we can't make employers put up applications in several languages. i'd hate to think how much it would cost the taxpayer to make every government form available in 12 languages.

help is there. they made it this far, keep going and find that help.

[AbeBeta]

one of my favorite things to tell people in life is to NOT put yourself in a situation you can't handle. don't pull your car into a crowded intersection and HOPE things clear up for you and the light changes so you can get out and not be in the way.

But let's keep in mind the terrible situations in their home countries that they are coming here to get away from. The idea that they came on their own free will is nice and philosophical and all but it is overly simplistic.

The difference between our views seems simple to me -- I see poor folks coming here so that their kids can have a better life. They know that they are going to be in a tough situation and will suffer for it and have to make serious sacrifices. I don't see immigrants demanding accommodation so much as I see the "English only" folks pushing for exclusion.

[iceberg]

But let's keep in mind the terrible situations in their home countries that they are coming here to get away from. The idea that they came on their own free will is nice and philosophical and all but it is overly simplistic.

The difference between our views seems simple to me -- I see poor folks coming here so that their kids can have a better life. They know that they are going to be in a tough situation and will suffer for it and have to make serious sacrifices. I don't see immigrants demanding accommodation so much as I see the "English only" folks pushing for exclusion.

and i welcome them. the difference in our views is i expect them to take the responsility for their education on our system, not us change it to make it simple for them.

who's excluding them, btw? i've not seen anyone say GO AWAY! i have seen them say "learn english". is this exclusion or asking them to take personal responsibility about the country they chose to move to?

again, my mom spent a bulk of her adult life teaching english to "illiterate" either immigrants, indian, or whatever - she never once cared in her life *who* came to her for help - she just did what she could to help. for awhile i also did some with her but nowhere near to the extend she did. there *is* help and there *are* plenty of people capable and willing to provide it.

if i moved to iceland as i keep saying one day i will, *that* is likely the hardest language to learn but i'd expect to have to. i'd appreciate places that encourage *self-help* and provides it as well - but in no way would i expect the government to change for me.

so again - who's excluding them? i've not seen anyone do it and i've already said i can and tried to help before personally and have had family do it long term.

[AbeBeta]

if i moved to iceland as i keep saying one day i will, *that* is likely the hardest language to learn but i'd expect to have to. i'd appreciate places that encourage *self-help* and provides it as well - but in no way would i expect the government to change for me.


The people of Iceland speak English in addition to Icelandic and study it in school. In fact, many of them speak English as well if not better than native speakers. You could easily get by in Iceland without knowing Icelandic.

[AbeBeta]

so again - who's excluding them? i've not seen anyone do it and i've already said i can and tried to help before personally and have had family do it long term.

And as I've noted above - it is difficult if not nearly impossible for some people to learn a new language. The "you must learn English" plan may exclude many people who might have received less education in their home countries (i.e., those who are more likely to come here).

Honestly, I can see why folks might be upset if the children of immigrants don't learn the language - but to expect a 40 year old man with a limited education in his home country that is working 60-70 hour weeks of backbreaking labor to pick up the language starts to get a bit unreasonable.

[iceberg]

The people of Iceland speak English in addition to Icelandic and study it in school. In fact, many of them speak English as well if not better than native speakers. You could easily get by in Iceland without knowing Icelandic.

true - but i'd still want to learn their language. : ) overall though not the best of examples.

there are always going to be the exceptions, the extremes. the ones who have a harder time. i can understand and appreciate the guy who's having a hard time learning the language but he still has choices.

get someone to read for him when needed
learn to do it on his own.

the people who mow my yard for me twice a month - 1 speaks english and other 2 do not. i don't care i talk to the one who can and if i go out and try to talk to one of the others, it's not easy no. i can learn spanish for this or find the guy. they could learn english, or find the guy also. : ) either way my yard looks great and i owe them $30 right now...

you cite the extreme cases to be sure - but then you turn around and ask a culture to change for that extreme case. i find that a but unreasonable as well.

[AbeBeta]

you cite the extreme cases to be sure - but then you turn around and ask a culture to change for that extreme case. i find that a but unreasonable as well.

How am I asking a culture to change? Wasn't this thread about moving from a country that does not have an official language to one that does? That would be a change.

[jterrell]

Ihave been in several parts of the US, not just florida, where there was no one in a shop or store that spoke english that was recognizeable. Silver, you must really lead a sheltered life to have never run into that. The reason English should be the official language is that we need to FORCE a lot of the newer illegals and legals to LEARN english. Too many cities are making it easy for them to not do so- which is WRONG. You come here, you obey our laws, you speak our language.

We can't get our President to speak English but we can recent immigrants???

:laugh2:

[L-O-Jete]

I thought "America" was the big melting pot, taking from all the cultures that came looking for a better live, latinos are now the biggest minority and growing, a large portion of the US was "latino" in it's origin, or do you think florida, colorado, San "fill in the spanish name", Los/Las "fill in spanish word", nevada, etc. are all words coming from "Auld English". In a way they are going back to their "roots", and most people tender to their clientel, if most of my customers are more comfortable speaking swahili, I'll use swahili, "official language be damned.

[iceberg]

How am I asking a culture to change? Wasn't this thread about moving from a country that does not have an official language to one that does? That would be a change.

and how would it change if we did have english as an official language? they'd still have the responsibility to learn it. right?

at this point i'm no longer positive of the point of the discussion. regardless of having an official language or not, when you come to this country, learn our customs and so forth. that was my argument. i don't think we should cater to all minorities that come here to such a minute degree.

[AbeBeta]

at this point i'm no longer positive of the point of the discussion. regardless of having an official language or not, when you come to this country, learn our customs and so forth. that was my argument. i don't think we should cater to all minorities that come here to such a minute degree.

So our "customs" haven't changed since 1776? We aren't catering, just recognizing that new people come here and that the country is transformed into something different because of it.

[iceberg]

So our "customs" haven't changed since 1776? We aren't catering, just recognizing that new people come here and that the country is transformed into something different because of it.

"to such a minute degree".

you cite extreme examples and while valid, still extreme. if enough hispanics swim over here and is the dominate race, do we all learn spanish now? how realistic is that for us?

the running theme i get from you is to cite extreme natures of an issue and try to resolve that extreme. i don't find that realistic. this isn't to say we shouldn't address what is a legitimate problem, you just seem to want to make everyone happy and i don't think that's ever possible. there's give and take in everything and yes - help them adapt and understand how to function in our society. if society on it's own changes then fine. maybe you're right.

maybe we are "changing". but those of us here have a right even "moreso" than those just now coming in to say how we can and should change.

again - i'm all for people having rights. *all* people. i'm against me having to forgo my rights because someone "less fortunate" needed them.