Has Vinny really looked all that bad?

[Aikmaniac]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously.

[Juke99]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously.

I don't disagree...

I think people want to see Henson because we want to have SOME hope about the future..and because he does bring a reputation for being a playmaker....

Also, we want to see YOUTH...but the problem is, this team is sorely lacking in young talent...so the default is Henson.

[crazylegs]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously.

VT throws are as slow as molasses add to that a non-existing running game well you have a prescribed lose on most given Sundays.

[ibis]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously....a small point..6 games 4 picks...3 in one game and the hail mary...you want a scapegoat,have at it...6 games...3/300 yard efforts...playing today without Glenn,with a guy who showed up when,Tuesday?...he gave you 20 points on 4 scoring possessions...and unlike some of the turkeys employed on Defense....HE DIDN'T QUIT...

[DanteEXT]

The only thing I wish is that VT had QC's legs. Not saying QC is a great runner, but a few times VT could have ran for some yards this season if had that ability.

So far, he's ok in my book.

[DCowboysGal]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously.

Don't forget Vinny only has 4 INT's which is solid considering the amount of times he has thrown the ball and the fact that he often faces nickel and dime defenses because opposing teams know they don't face any threat from the running game.

That said, I wish we had landed a more mobile starting/backup QB who could scramble away from pressure in case the line collapsed. That way we wouldn't have to keep the TE back so often for protection. There also wouldn't be as much pressure on our inexperienced OL'men like Gurode, Johnson, and Tucker to maintain the pocket. Considering the inexperience of the right side of the OL, it's impressive that V-Verde has only been sacked 11 times. Anyways, Kurt Warner would have been nice, but the timing to sign him was off. If Carter had been released before Warner signed with the Giants, he might have viewed the potential for starting in DAL as greater than that of starting in NY as we were only left with two developmental projects in Romo and Henson while NY had a 1st-round draft-pick in E. Manning as competition for the starting job. Anyways, blah blah hindsight....

[Kangaroo]

Have we also forgotten this

We still only scored 20 points once this season in 6 games not great we are below last years average

Vinny has fumbled in every game so far no he has not lost them all but he has fumbled several snaps from center killing drives

He has been lucky on some really horrid throws to the wrong jersey that smacks of QC type play (big bone head play)

So yes he put up some yards but he has still been ok

[ibis]

The only thing I wish is that VT had QC's legs. Not saying QC is a great runner, but a few times VT could have ran for some yards this season if had that ability.

So far, he's ok in my book....he had Q's legs...........in 85 against Oklahoma... :)

[MikeD17]

FIRST OFF VINNY HAD NO HAIL MARY PICKS . THE ONE AGAINST THE GIANTS WAS A DEEP BOMB TO BRYANT , AN AWFUL THROW.

SECONDLY ALL FOUR PICKS HAVE BEEN INSIDE THE OTHER TEAMS REDZONE. HIS ONE FUMBLE COST US A GAME BY ITSELF. VINNY CAN ONLY BE EFFECTIVE IF HE HAS ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL AND HAS PERFECT PROTECTION. WHO WOULDNT BE IN THE NFl?

the guy has also had about 6 interceptions dropped this season , so hes LUCKY hes got only 4 ints.

but the biggest reasons WHY VINNY STINKS, is because hes the qb of a 2-4 team and HES THE GREATEST LOSING QB OF ALL TIME NFL HISTORY.


DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS? BECAUSE HE STINKS AND COULDNT MAKE A BIG THROW FOR HIS LIFE

[ibis]

Have we also forgotten this

We still only scored 20 points once this season in 6 games not great we are below last years average

Vinny has fumbled in every game so far no he has not lost them all but he has fumbled several snaps from center killing drives

He has been lucky on some really horrid throws to the wrong jersey that smacks of QC type play (big bone head play)

So yes he put up some yards but he has still been ok...yeah,he will occasionally fumble...but guys today were complaining that he didn't field that ground ball snap and do something with it...well,at 41,no,he's not going to make that play...he is at heart,like most great passers,a gunslinger,he'll throw into coverage...I know people are pissed at the losses but just consider for a moment the last three touchdown passes...two to Key and one to the tight end...they were some beautiful throws...

[Hostile]

FIRST OFF VINNY HAD NO HAIL MARY PICKS . THE ONE AGAINST THE GIANTS WAS A DEEP BOMB TO BRYANT , AN AWFUL THROW.

SECONDLY ALL FOUR PICKS HAVE BEEN INSIDE THE OTHER TEAMS REDZONE. HIS ONE FUMBLE COST US A GAME BY ITSELF. VINNY CAN ONLY BE EFFECTIVE IF HE HAS ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL AND HAS PERFECT PROTECTION. WHO WOULDNT BE IN THE NFl?

the guy has also had about 6 interceptions dropped this season , so hes LUCKY hes got only 4 ints.

but the biggest reasons WHY VINNY STINKS, is because hes the qb of a 2-4 team and HES THE GREATEST LOSING QB OF ALL TIME NFL HISTORY.


DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS? BECAUSE HE STINKS AND COULDNT MAKE A BIG THROW FOR HIS LIFE
Another defective keyboard. All caps posts are never worth reading. Proof is in the pudding.

[Dale]

Vinny's not bad, but he's not of the Manning/Culpepper variety (clearly, few are) who is going to single handedly take his team on his back and lead them to victory. Unfortunately, with the way our running game and defense are performing, that's what we currently need out of a quarterback.

Vinny hasn't performed poorly at all. But he also hasn't been an impetus for winning. Given the circumstances, and what he was originally brought in to do, I think he's doing a tremendous job. Given that he took over a playoff team and has currently led them to a 2-4 record, and that quarterbacks do often shoulder the blame, it's hard to say he's doing a great job.

His stats are quite impressive, but I would argue he has racked up a majority of those statistics in rather meaningless fashion. Granted, he was "on" during the first half today, and during the first half of the Vikings game, but ultimately his performance didn't garner enough points to keep pace with the opposing team in either game. While it's not all his fault, ultimately, he failed to get the team into the end zone.

But he's completed 61% of his passes for 1609 yards, 6 TDs and only 4 INTs for an 86.4 QB Rating, which certainly isn't bad.

He hasn't been our main problem, but since he's not part of our future, it doesn't do us much good long term -- nor short term, given our team's record.

[ibis]

FIRST OFF VINNY HAD NO HAIL MARY PICKS . THE ONE AGAINST THE GIANTS WAS A DEEP BOMB TO BRYANT , AN AWFUL THROW.

SECONDLY ALL FOUR PICKS HAVE BEEN INSIDE THE OTHER TEAMS REDZONE. HIS ONE FUMBLE COST US A GAME BY ITSELF. VINNY CAN ONLY BE EFFECTIVE IF HE HAS ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL AND HAS PERFECT PROTECTION. WHO WOULDNT BE IN THE NFl?

the guy has also had about 6 interceptions dropped this season , so hes LUCKY hes got only 4 ints.

but the biggest reasons WHY VINNY STINKS, is because hes the qb of a 2-4 team and HES THE GREATEST LOSING QB OF ALL TIME NFL HISTORY.


DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS? BECAUSE HE STINKS AND COULDNT MAKE A BIG THROW FOR HIS LIFE...aahh...you just come from the Jets GANGGREEN site?

[Hostile]

Vinny's not bad, but he's not of the Manning/Culpepper variety (clearly, few are) who is going to single handedly take his team on his back and lead them to victory. Unfortunately, with the way our running game and defense are performing, that's what we currently need out of a quarterback.

Vinny hasn't performed poorly at all. But he also hasn't been an impetus for winning. Given the circumstances, and what he was originally brought in to do, I think he's doing a tremendous job. Given that he took over a playoff team and has currently led them to a 2-4 record, and that quarterbacks do often shoulder the blame, it's hard to say he's doing a great job.

His stats are quite impressive, but I would argue he has racked up a majority of those statistics in rather meaningless fashion. Granted, he was "on" during the first half today, and during the first half of the Vikings game, but ultimately his performance didn't garner enough points to keep pace with the opposing team in either game. While it's not all his fault, ultimately, he failed to get the team into the end zone.

But he's completed 61% of his passes for 1609 yards, 6 TDs and only 4 INTs for an 86.4 QB Rating, which certainly isn't bad.

He hasn't been our main problem, but since he's not part of our future, it doesn't do us much good long term -- nor short term, given our team's record.
Outstanding post. Couldn't agree more.

[MikeD17]

Hey Hostile I Use The Caps For People Who Are Around Vinnys Age Like Your Self , This Way You Can Read What I Write Alittle Bit Easier.

[Hostile]

Hey Hostile I Use The Caps For People Who Are Around Vinnys Age Like Your Self , This Way You Can Read What I Write Alittle Bit Easier.
No, you use it's because you are a troll. It's what you do.

All caps posts are never worth reading.

[ibis]

Vinny's not bad, but he's not of the Manning/Culpepper variety (clearly, few are) who is going to single handedly take his team on his back and lead them to victory. Unfortunately, with the way our running game and defense are performing, that's what we currently need out of a quarterback.

Vinny hasn't performed poorly at all. But he also hasn't been an impetus for winning. Given the circumstances, and what he was originally brought in to do, I think he's doing a tremendous job. Given that he took over a playoff team and has currently led them to a 2-4 record, and that quarterbacks do often shoulder the blame, it's hard to say he's doing a great job.

His stats are quite impressive, but I would argue he has racked up a majority of those statistics in rather meaningless fashion. Granted, he was "on" during the first half today, and during the first half of the Vikings game, but ultimately his performance didn't garner enough points to keep pace with the opposing team in either game. While it's not all his fault, ultimately, he failed to get the team into the end zone.

But he's completed 61% of his passes for 1609 yards, 6 TDs and only 4 INTs for an 86.4 QB Rating, which certainly isn't bad.

He hasn't been our main problem, but since he's not part of our future, it doesn't do us much good long term -- nor short term, given our team's record....look,as a Vinny fan,I'm happy he's found work...those last two years in NY were brutal...the coach there was going to put him in for a quarter so he could get to 40,000 yards...the inference there was that he was shot...well,he's not shot,but,he is 41....in my gut,I just happy for every snap he's gotten...if it ends next week...or the end of the season,I got or will get to see him play one last time...

[Tobal]

Vinny has been terrible in the nickel defense. I've yet to see him make a play.

:)

[Dale]

Vinny has been terrible in the nickel defense. I've yet to see him make a play.

:)

Which matches the plays made by all the other nickel corners combined. :p

[Tobal]

:)

You got me on that one, now get too bed. It's too damn late to be up dwelling this loss.

[The Major]

Hello All,

Imho, VT`s been excellent on a team that`s been horrible in almost every phase of the game much of the yr.!

To begin with, far too many times, he`s had no running game, the def. has STUNK against the run allowing BIG plays and keeping the off. off the field, the def. has STUNK against the pass allowing BIG plays and has also kept the off. off the field, there`s been some bad coaching, there`s been poor game-plans, there`s been bad coaching adjustments, there`s been bad play-calls, etc., etc., etc.!!!

Regardless, VT`s still comp. 61% of his passes for 1609 yds., including 3 300 yd. games out of 6, with 6 TD`s and only 4 picks for an 86.4 QB rating overall with a 103 rating against GB and 97.5 against the Steelers! This is very good, especially considering ALL the things mentioned in the paragraph above.

VT`s also thrown 6 TD`s to only 4 picks but 3 of those came in the only bad qt. he`s had! Outside of that one bad qt., VT`s QB rating is about the same as it was in 98, (when he won the passing title), for the other 23 qts. or most of the season in other words! Often times, he`s played like he did in 98. This is especially true on scoring drives where STUPID penalties, etc., etc., etc., didn`t kill the drive!

The ave. pts./gm. is a bit low but this is only because of ALL the STUPID penalties, mistakes, complete lack of a running game, bad play-calls, etc., which have killed a lot of promising scoring drives!

Although it`s true that Dal. is 2-4 right now, imho, this is much more a team stat since it`s a team sport, etc. That being said, Dal. could just as easily be 3-3 or 4-2 if not for 1 FLUKISH, FREAKISH play and some very questionable coaching, etc., against the Giants!!!

"...We still only scored 20 points once this season in 6 games..."

Actually, Dal. has scored 20 pts. twice and 21 pts. once but you`re right! That`s not great. But Please just keep in mind that the average would be much higher if not for ALL the drives stopped by STUPID penalties, etc., etc., etc.

"...no he has not lost them all but he has fumbled several snaps from center killing drives..."

Although he`s probably done this more than most QB`s in the NFL SO FAR this yr., he`s actually done these kinds of things less frequently than most QB`s since 92!!! Btw, I expect to see this happen far less often, if at all, as the season goes on!

"...He has been lucky on some really horrid throws to the wrong jersey that smacks of QC type play (big bone head play)..."

Anyone who pays close enough attention to this in other games finds out like I did that ALL QB`s do this in the majority of games. For ex., even Farve, as good as he also was, had a couple of INTS. dropped today!

"...FIRST OFF VINNY HAD NO HAIL MARY PICKS . THE ONE AGAINST THE GIANTS WAS A DEEP BOMB TO BRYANT , AN AWFUL THROW..."

Imho, that was a Hail Mary Pick and a good throw. It was a deep bomb but the receiver fell down. This quite possibly made it look like a bad throw to fans like you for ex., etc.!!!

"...HIS ONE FUMBLE COST US A GAME BY ITSELF..."

But according to numerous very reliable sources, he didn`t cause that fumble! Therefore, VT didn`t cost Dal. that game ALL by himself!!!

"...VINNY CAN ONLY BE EFFECTIVE IF HE HAS ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL AND HAS PERFECT PROTECTION..."

This isn`t true! VT has BURNED defs. plenty of times throughout his career when they blitzed him, giving him almost no time to throw!!!

"...the guy has also had about 6 interceptions dropped this season , so hes LUCKY hes got only 4 ints..."

Imho, 6 dropped picks in 6 games isn`t that many at all and is most likely less than most QB`s in the NFL right now! So luck most likely has nothing to do with it!!!

"...but the biggest reasons WHY VINNY STINKS, is because hes the qb of a 2-4 team..."

No. VT`s QBing a team that STINKS right now with a 2-4 record!!!

"...HES THE GREATEST LOSING QB OF ALL TIME NFL HISTORY..."

This is pure BS and needless, uncalled for VT-Bashing!!!

"...DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS? BECAUSE HE STINKS AND COULDNT MAKE A BIG THROW FOR HIS LIFE..."

Once again, this is pure BS and needless, uncalled for VT-Bashing!!!

[Sarge]

I don't disagree...

I think people want to see Henson because we want to have SOME hope about the future..and because he does bring a reputation for being a playmaker....

Also, we want to see YOUTH...but the problem is, this team is sorely lacking in young talent...so the default is Henson.

The team is so bad, in so many areas, a point can be made both ways for putting in Henson.

We're going to have to do it sooner or later.

The longer they wait, the longer it will ultimately take to get back to the top.

That said, we don't want to see Henson get killed in there.

....and just wait 2-3 years when Greg Ellis, L'Roi Glover, Larry Allen, Flozell Adams and the like are all ready for retirement. :eek:

We have a LOT of work to do.

[Charles]

Vinny hasn't looked that bad. He just doesn't have the talent or skills to win ugly.

He is one dimensional. A pure classic drop back passer.

[Juke99]

The team is so bad, in so many areas, a point can be made both ways for putting in Henson.

We're going to have to do it sooner or later.

The longer they wait, the longer it will ultimately take to get back to the top.

That said, we don't want to see Henson get killed in there.

....and just wait 2-3 years when Greg Ellis, L'Roi Glover, Larry Allen, Flozell Adams and the like are all ready for retirement. :eek:

We have a LOT of work to do.


Well, just imagine how bad this roster will look if Henson and Julius Jones prove they can't do the job... :eek:

A fat guy should never be allowed to shop for the groceries...they'll buy anything off the shelves...

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, just imagine how bad this roster will look if Henson and Julius Jones prove they can't do the job... :eek:

A fat guy should never be allowed to shop for the groceries...they'll buy anything off the shelves...


I think he's been buying them at a his local dollar store... in the closeout bin.

[SA_Gunslinger]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously.




i totally agree vinny is not the problem...but given the state of the team....let's get romo or henson in there. we have to plan for the future. this year is lost.

[Gah]

Vinny's not bad, but he's not of the Manning/Culpepper variety (clearly, few are) who is going to single handedly take his team on his back and lead them to victory. Unfortunately, with the way our running game and defense are performing, that's what we currently need out of a quarterback.

Vinny hasn't performed poorly at all. But he also hasn't been an impetus for winning. Given the circumstances, and what he was originally brought in to do, I think he's doing a tremendous job. Given that he took over a playoff team and has currently led them to a 2-4 record, and that quarterbacks do often shoulder the blame, it's hard to say he's doing a great job.

His stats are quite impressive, but I would argue he has racked up a majority of those statistics in rather meaningless fashion. Granted, he was "on" during the first half today, and during the first half of the Vikings game, but ultimately his performance didn't garner enough points to keep pace with the opposing team in either game. While it's not all his fault, ultimately, he failed to get the team into the end zone.

But he's completed 61% of his passes for 1609 yards, 6 TDs and only 4 INTs for an 86.4 QB Rating, which certainly isn't bad.

He hasn't been our main problem, but since he's not part of our future, it doesn't do us much good long term -- nor short term, given our team's record.

The problem with Vinny is that he can't move us inside the other team's 20 yard line. Great, Vinny racks up yards between the 20s but as soon as we get near the redzone, he sticks his head up his rear. This team is actually scoring LESS than Carter's-led offense did last season, despite better WR play and an improved running game (4.2 yards per carry, too bad we don't use it more often). We have the 10th rated offense in the NFL, and the 6th rated pass game. And can only muster 17.4 points per game. That's pathetic, and the two biggest culprits are Vinny and the offensive play-calling. Just look at his last year with the Jets...7 tds, 2 ints, 90-something rating, but only a 2-7 record. He'll put up the numbers but when it comes down to it he won't help you score tds when needed and you won't win.

As for some of the vinny-love from what i assume are vinny fans that have come to this board....the guy's had maybe 4 or 5 good seasons out of 16. The rest of them, he was either dreadfully average or just dreadful. Vinny would be a good backup or a decent average guy on a team with a strong running attack, but he's being asked to air it out here and he's just not that kind of QB. Expect more of the same (not scoring TDs) for the rest of the season.

[Boom]

Have we also forgotten this

We still only scored 20 points once this season in 6 games not great we are below last years average

Vinny has fumbled in every game so far no he has not lost them all but he has fumbled several snaps from center killing drives

He has been lucky on some really horrid throws to the wrong jersey that smacks of QC type play (big bone head play)

So yes he put up some yards but he has still been ok

While VT hasn't been outstanding, I don't see him as being the problem.

Just like last year, we've thrown for 7 TDs and rushed for 5 TDs through 6 games. Last year we did have 7 more FGs and 23 more points from ST/DEF. So it looks like we are scoring less, but definitely not getting into the endzone less, offensively.

Dallas has thrown less INTs (4 to 5), but hasn't taken care of the ball (5 fum lost to 2 last year). The offensive yardage production looks like a wash with ~40ypg more through the air, but ~40ypg less on the ground.

The defense is really what set us apart last year in this span with 8 ints and 5 fumble recoveries for a +6 turnover ratio. This year, 3 ints and 1 fumble recovery for a -5 turnover ratio.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Vinny's not bad, but he's not of the Manning/Culpepper variety (clearly, few are) who is going to single handedly take his team on his back and lead them to victory. Unfortunately, with the way our running game and defense are performing, that's what we currently need out of a quarterback.

Vinny hasn't performed poorly at all. But he also hasn't been an impetus for winning. Given the circumstances, and what he was originally brought in to do, I think he's doing a tremendous job. Given that he took over a playoff team and has currently led them to a 2-4 record, and that quarterbacks do often shoulder the blame, it's hard to say he's doing a great job.

His stats are quite impressive, but I would argue he has racked up a majority of those statistics in rather meaningless fashion. Granted, he was "on" during the first half today, and during the first half of the Vikings game, but ultimately his performance didn't garner enough points to keep pace with the opposing team in either game. While it's not all his fault, ultimately, he failed to get the team into the end zone.

But he's completed 61% of his passes for 1609 yards, 6 TDs and only 4 INTs for an 86.4 QB Rating, which certainly isn't bad.

He hasn't been our main problem, but since he's not part of our future, it doesn't do us much good long term -- nor short term, given our team's record.

Nice to see that writting career is coming along.

Good post and I agree.

Bravo.

[The Major]

Hello All,

"...The problem with Vinny is that he can't move us inside the other team's 20 yard line..."

VT`s not the problem here! To start with, the team has simply committed too many DUMB penalties, mistakes, etc., killing very promising TD drives.

And when penalties, etc., aren`t killing TD drives in the red zone, having no running game is!!! When the off. gets into the red zone, the field becomes much shorter! This makes it that much harder to score a TD, especially if the other team knows you`re throwing because you can`t run the ball!!!

Adding to these things, the play-calling has been very questionable in the red zone. VT simply hasn`t thrown it into the end zone that often so far this season. This is either because the play-calling STINKS in the red zone or his receivers simply can`t get open when the other team knows that a pass is coming.

We also know it`s not VT`s fault because of the times he`s thrown into the end zone, TD passes often resulted! But then, this also only goes to show just how infrequently the off. has taken shots at the end-zone since VT has only 6 TD passes!

We also know it`s not VT`s fault because, he`s been among the best red zone QB`s in the league since 92, especially in 93, 95, 96, 98, etc., etc., etc.

A combination of ALL these problems is why Dal. can`t score a lot of TD`s so far in the red zone!!!

"...an improved running game (4.2 yards per carry, too bad we don't use it more often)..."

This is NOT an improved running game yet. After ALL the 1-yd. gains and losses we`ve ALL seen from this running game, (someone will break a run for 10 + yds. now and then and just enough times for the ave. to be 4.2 yds./carry), I guarantee that if the RB`s run like they have up to now that, with more carries, that average is much lower!!!

"...Just look at his last year with the Jets...7 tds, 2 ints, 90-something rating, but only a 2-7 record..."

His record was 2-4 as a starter last yr. in games that he started and finished! But he had virtually no pre-season!!! Therefore, the 2 wins came back-to-back after VT started the yr. rusty and the Jets started 0-4! Regardless, VT was in the middle of passing the Jet season around when Pennington returned in the middle of the 7th game against the Eagles, only to blow the game with a very costly INT. and destroy the new-found chemistry the team had with VT!!!

Considering ALL this, VT should actually be commended for being able to play as well as he did!!!

"...He'll put up the numbers but when it comes down to it he won't help you score tds when needed and you won't win..."

Without ALL the problems pointed out above, VT not only put up the nos. several yrs. but also helped his offs. score TD`s when needed by throwing numerous TD passes to lead the league and by being among the best red zone QB`s!!! This helped his teams win enormously in 93, 94, 96, (led league in TD passes), 98, (led league in TD passes for 2nd time in 3 yrs.), 00, 01, etc.

"...the guy's had maybe 4 or 5 good seasons out of 16..."

No. He`s had 8 good seasons going either by W-L records, high QB Efficiency ratings, both, etc., etc., etc.! All have come since 92 and since getting out of TB. He was on such bad teams those 1st 6 yrs. in TB that no QB could`ve had good yrs. with them, including Steve Young and every QB that followed VT there for yrs. to come!!! That`s how bad those TB teams were!

All since 92, he`s been a 3 Time Playoff - 2 Time Pro Bowl QB whose tied or set several team and NFL records and that`s DARN good and better than most QB`s who`ve ever played the game!!! Making this even more impressive is the fact that many of the teams VT played on since 92 weren`t that much better than those TB teams!

"...Vinny would be a good backup or a decent average guy on a team with a strong running attack..."

He`s PROVEN that he`s can be a good starting QB even without a strong running game but those teams didn`t kill promising scoring drives with DUMB penalties, etc., etc., etc.! The best ex. of this was in 96 when he made the Pro Bowl, tied or set several team and NFL records, etc., etc., etc.!!! Exs. of him being a good to great starting QB with a running game are 93 when he finished with the 3rd highest QB rating in the league and set the comp.% record for a game, etc., 94 where he led the Browns to the playoffs and won there, etc., 95 where he again finished with the 3rd highest QB rating in the league, despite being on a team that quit after starting out 3-1 and then finding out that they were about to move, etc., 98 where he led the Jets to within a half of the SB, etc., etc., etc., 00, 01, etc.!!!

"...he's being asked to air it out here and he's just not that kind of QB..."

He is that kind of QB as proven in 96 for ex. In fact, this kind of system fits VT`s strength the best! In fact, he`s had his best yrs. in such systems which called for him to air it out, with or without a good running game as in 93, 94, 95, 96, 98, 00, 01, etc. Parcells witnessed this fact in 98 and may be only one reason why he`s had VT pass so often!!!

"...Expect more of the same (not scoring TDs) for the rest of the season."

That`s only if penalties, etc., etc., etc., continue to kill drives and ALL the other problems listed above continue!!! Otherwise, expect far more TD`s!

[Chuck 54]

Watching the poor performance of our favorite football team the past couple weeks, I've come to realize that the silver lining is Vinny Testaverde.

Now...before you string me up by my toenails, think about it for a moment. It's not a new development that the Cowboys can't run the ball to save their lives so you have to believe that they (opposing defenses) drop at least 4, maybe 5, into coverage begging the Cowboys to beat them on the run.

Obviously the deck has been stacked against Vinny game in and out. To be able to put up numbers the way he has, being one dimensional, is somewhat amazing.

I read many posts asking for Vinny to be benched in favor of Romo/Henson, but...is Vinny really the problem? The OL is doing an excellent job protecting the statue that is VT and he is being very successful. The reason this team struggles inside the red zone is the SEVERE LACK OF RUNNING GAME, obviously.
The thing that bugs me most about Vinny is that he has almost as little pocket awareness or idea about what to do in the face of the rush and blitz as Chad had (yes, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a little), but he never throws the ball away and almost never gets it out to a hot receiver to make the defense pay...he's a deer in the headlights.

Otherwise, he's playing as well as a 40 year old QB can be expected to play.

I don't think I'd call him "very successful"....if he was very successful, he might have more than 1 td pass per game.

[jay cee]

Vinny's not bad, but he's not of the Manning/Culpepper variety (clearly, few are) who is going to single handedly take his team on his back and lead them to victory. Unfortunately, with the way our running game and defense are performing, that's what we currently need out of a quarterback.

Vinny hasn't performed poorly at all. But he also hasn't been an impetus for winning. Given the circumstances, and what he was originally brought in to do, I think he's doing a tremendous job. Given that he took over a playoff team and has currently led them to a 2-4 record, and that quarterbacks do often shoulder the blame, it's hard to say he's doing a great job.

His stats are quite impressive, but I would argue he has racked up a majority of those statistics in rather meaningless fashion. Granted, he was "on" during the first half today, and during the first half of the Vikings game, but ultimately his performance didn't garner enough points to keep pace with the opposing team in either game. While it's not all his fault, ultimately, he failed to get the team into the end zone.

But he's completed 61% of his passes for 1609 yards, 6 TDs and only 4 INTs for an 86.4 QB Rating, which certainly isn't bad.

He hasn't been our main problem, but since he's not part of our future, it doesn't do us much good long term -- nor short term, given our team's record.


that pretty much sums it up. Although it's not Testeverde's fault that Jones got hurt and the defense really fell off, but that is the case.

He probably won't be with Dallas next year, so all he's really doing is padding his career stats. But I'm still not in a hurry to see Henson.

[The Major]

Hello All,

"The thing that bugs me most about Vinny is that he has almost as little pocket awareness or idea about what to do in the face of the rush and blitz as Chad had (yes, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a little..."

NO. VT`s burned the blitz numerous times throughout his career, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells off.!!!

"...he never throws the ball away..."

Yes he does. He throws it away as much as any other good QB in the NFL, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells off.!!!

"...and almost never gets it out to a hot receiver to make the defense pay..."

He`s done this numerous times throughout his career too, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells off.!!!

Again, this team currently has many severe problems but one of them is not VT.

[hockix]

The problem with Vinny is that he can't move us inside the other team's 20 yard line. Great, Vinny racks up yards between the 20s but as soon as we get near the redzone, he sticks his head up his rear. This team is actually scoring LESS than Carter's-led offense did last season, despite better WR play and an improved running game (4.2 yards per carry, too bad we don't use it more often). We have the 10th rated offense in the NFL, and the 6th rated pass game. And can only muster 17.4 points per game. That's pathetic, and the two biggest culprits are Vinny and the offensive play-calling. Just look at his last year with the Jets...7 tds, 2 ints, 90-something rating, but only a 2-7 record. He'll put up the numbers but when it comes down to it he won't help you score tds when needed and you won't win.

As for some of the vinny-love from what i assume are vinny fans that have come to this board....the guy's had maybe 4 or 5 good seasons out of 16. The rest of them, he was either dreadfully average or just dreadful. Vinny would be a good backup or a decent average guy on a team with a strong running attack, but he's being asked to air it out here and he's just not that kind of QB. Expect more of the same (not scoring TDs) for the rest of the season.

For a first post, not bad.

Welcome aboard.

[DCowboysGal]

But wasn't T-Verde signed to be a stopgap backup and was only thrust into the starting role because of Q. Carter's extracurricular activities?

[Chuck 54]

Hello All,

"The thing that bugs me most about Vinny is that he has almost as little pocket awareness or idea about what to do in the face of the rush and blitz as Chad had (yes, I'm sure I'm exaggerating a little..."

NO. VT`s burned the blitz numerous times throughout his career, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells off.!!!

"...he never throws the ball away..."

Yes he does. He throws it away as much as any other good QB in the NFL, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells off.!!!

"...and almost never gets it out to a hot receiver to make the defense pay..."

He`s done this numerous times throughout his career too, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells off.!!!

Again, this team currently has many severe problems but one of them is not VT.
NO offense, but you're arguing your point after 6 games this season by talking about what Vinny has done in the past in a Parcells' offense? Enough said....he's not doing it this year with this team.

[Hiero]

Vinny, IMO, hasnt really been that bad. He has however been at best decent, with a few flashes. If were talking about a rookie or a young guy, its promising. If its a 41 year old man on a team with a 25% chance at best to make the playoffs, theres absolutely NO EXCUSE not to start Henson.

[notherbob]

I, too, would like to see some of Romo/Henson because they need the experience, but not under the circumstances of the last three weeks. I don't know anything about Vinnie's past stuff, I only see what he is doing with the Boys this year and he's doing OK. This team has far greater problems to deal with, like coming together and getting their Schtick (?sp?) together.

This team has shown just as many flashes of idiocy as it has of excellence, not to mention clumsiness and ineptitude. Did they get the big head over last year's record and think that all they had to do was show up and things would automatically work out without any special effort on their part? The NFL doesn't work that way these days.

This team is playing tense and afraid of making mistakes, not relaxed and confident. It's not just the secondary either, it's widespread and needs to be dealt with. These people need to have a teamwide meeting and get their act together.

'notherBob

[The Major]

Hello All,

NO offense, but you're arguing your point after 6 games this season by talking about what Vinny has done in the past in a Parcells' offense? Enough said....he's not doing it this year with this team.

When I stated that VT`s been doing it throughout his career, especially with Parcells as his coach in a Parcells system, that includes this yr. as well. I`m sorry if you just haven`t seen the plays or simply don`t remember them all!

[Gah]

Wow. Is "The Major" Vinny's mother or something?

"No. He`s had 8 good seasons going either by W-L records, high QB Efficiency ratings, both, etc., etc., etc.! All have come since 92 and since getting out of TB. He was on such bad teams those 1st 6 yrs. in TB that no QB could`ve had good yrs. with them, including Steve Young and every QB that followed VT there for yrs. to come!!! That`s how bad those TB teams were!"

In all his years as a full-time starter, Vinny has only thrown more TDs than INTs 5 times. And 2 of those years, he barely threw more tds than picks. So, in reality, he's only had about 4 good seasons as a starter in the NFL. Counting all the years where he was NEAR the 50-50 TD/INT mark, i count 7. That's 7 average seasons. 3 years with a good bit more INTs (4+) than TDs. 3 more years where he didn't really play that much, and this year make 18 total NFL season. So, thats 10+ years of being bad or mediocre, 4 good seasons, 3 as a part-time player, and 1 season still to be determined (this year). This pretty much proves what I said earlier. Vinny's no great shakes and has MORE than had his share of problems as a QB, and now he's on the wrong side of 40. No thank you. I sure wish we would have made a run at Warner instead.

[SuspectCorner]

vinny is an old QB. he has some smarts but lacks a leaders' charisma. he still has a solid arm but is about as immobile a QB as you can find in the league. he reads coverages okay but lacks pocket awareness. he can fit the ball in some tight spaces but locks onto receivers. in a nutshell he is of the ordinary servicable variety. he hurts you in as many areas as he helps you. i'm not down on him. he is not the problem with this team. the defense is.

[Hostile]

vinny is an old QB. he has some smarts but lacks a leaders' charisma. he still has a solid arm but is about as immobile a QB as you can find in the league. he reads coverages okay but lacks pocket awareness. he can fit the ball in some tight spaces but locks onto receivers. in a nutshell he is of the ordinary servicable variety. he hurts you in as many areas as he helps you. i'm not down on him. he is not the problem with this team. the defense is.
The immobility isn't killing us. Right now I'd take Dan Marino for thsi team and he was a statue.

We get into the redzone and VT's release is not fast enough to help us. We get conservative and quit doing what does move the ball for this team.

I do put some blame on him because he still has to get it done and he hasn't.

[T-New41]

I think most people on this board want Vinny benched, not because of anything Vinny has done (he has been decent) but because we want to see the future of our team. In all honesty, if iwe cant make the playoffs what is the point of holding back the Henson era?

Even if we split the rest of the way, all that will happen is that we will finish run of the mill, have a mediocre 1st round pick and NOT be in the playoffs. Next year we will still have the same questions if we have our future QB or not.

I would like to believe that we can still make the playoffs, but our defense is obviously not the same D we had last year. Our offense is OK enough to move the ball and score some points, but it is not good enough to win a shootout or come from behind.

That is the only reason I want to see what Henson's got. Trial by fire, either he's got it or he doesnt. Sure he will struggle, but if he has "it" we will see the glimpses. If he doesnt, we will be in a pretty good position to get a QB in the draft with a high pick, (if there are any worth taking)

[mr.jameswoods]

How can anyone blame Vinny? I'm amazed he has played this well despite having even less of a running game than we had last season with Hambrick. I do blame Parcells for starting and sticking with Eddie George. That was a "Parcells' guys" type of move if I had ever seen one. That was foolish. Anyone with common sense could tell Eddie was done. There is a reason why Tennessee had no interest in resigning him; it's too bad we couldn't catch on.

One dimensional teams have a tough time in the red zone because there is less field to work with the pass. If you lack a running game, you won't score TD's in the NFL. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with Vinny's arm. Defenses today are too talented and too smart to allow a one dimensional team to score like what happened in the 80's. That won't work anylonger. If you can't run then you can't score.

Everyone wants to see our future QB start. No Cowboy fan is thrilled witha 41 year old QB starting despite how well he is playing. The problem is where do you get a QB like that? You only have two options, you draft and groom a rookie or you sign a great free agent. And no team is going to let a QB who is worth a damn leave in free agency. If a team lets him go, it's usually because the QB is old or he was a backup. No team will ever let a young and talented QB leave in free agency. So the reality is that we need time to let Henson learn. We are just lucky that a filler QB like Testaverde has done such an amazing job.

[SuspectCorner]

There is a reason why Tennessee had no interest in resigning him; it's too bad we couldn't catch on.
the reason EG was cut by tennessee is the same reason that punked roy williams before a national TV audience during the preseason. chris brown. we don't have the luxury of a chris brown. we don't have the luxury of a julius jones. i'm glad EG is here. now let's see the team use him.

[mr.jameswoods]

the reason EG was cut by tennessee is the same reason that punked roy williams before a national TV audience during the preseason. chris brown. we don't have the luxury of a chris brown. we don't have the luxury of a julius jones. i'm glad EG is here. now let's see the team use him.

Then why not take a chance on younger RB? If you know Eddie George is old and slow then why use him? I would much rather take my chances with a young RB than go with Eddie. And RB is a poisition you can get lucky with in regards late round talent. Our offensive line is good enough that a young RB could have thrived in this offense. Insteead we go with a confirmed dud like Eddie George who everyone knows is slow as hell. Bad decision Parcells

[SuspectCorner]

Then why not take a chance on younger RB? If you know Eddie George is old and slow then why use him? I would much rather take my chances with a young RB than go with Eddie. And RB is a poisition you can get lucky with in regards late round talent. Our offensive line is good enough that a young RB could have thrived in this offense. Insteead we go with a confirmed dud like Eddie George who everyone knows is slow as hell. Bad decision Parcells
i have wanted reshard lee to get more carries. i now realize they are not forthcoming. coach parcells has a case of reshardophobia. so maybe my wish for more rungame will be granted if i change the subject of the wish. dallas can't stop the opposition from scoring so they must play clock-munching keepaway. and EG just doesn't fumble.

[mr.jameswoods]

i have wanted reshard lee to get more carries. i now realize they are not forthcoming. coach parcells has a case of reshardophobia. so maybe my wish for more rungame will be granted if i change the subject of the wish. dallas can't stop the opposition from scoring so they must play clock-munching keepaway. and EG just doesn't fumble.

Yeah, I know why Parcells is starting EG; I just don't agree with it. I like being proactive instead of trying to be safe.

[SuspectCorner]

Yeah, I know why Parcells is starting EG; I just don't agree with it. I like being proactive instead of trying to be safe.
look what "safe" has gotten him so far...

[mr.jameswoods]

look what "safe" has gotten him so far...

Well, we don't have a defense in which "safe" works like it did in 91. Maybe if we had LT and a Hall of Fame defense, I would be okay with starting EG and only scoring 10 points a contest.

[Clay_Allison]

Most of the "Bench Vinny" calls are from those who thing (maybe rightly) that we are not going to the Super Bowl with this team, and that since he has a limited upside, we might as well figure out what Henson can do, while giving him live-fire experience.

I think he should see one series a game, get his head in it, get him throwing a few passes, let him see the speed of a real NFL game, rather than practice, give the D a different look. Also limited action might insulate him against people getting too seriously down on him based on that performance. You know if he starts and sucks there will be instant Henson-haters.

In any case, I think most of us know that VT is at least not THE problem.

I'm looking forward on Tom Brady being asked about what he thinks of Henson's future at QB

[The Major]

Hello All,

Wow. Is "The Major" Vinny's mother or something?

"No. He`s had 8 good seasons going either by W-L records, high QB Efficiency ratings, both, etc., etc., etc.! All have come since 92 and since getting out of TB. He was on such bad teams those 1st 6 yrs. in TB that no QB could`ve had good yrs. with them, including Steve Young and every QB that followed VT there for yrs. to come!!! That`s how bad those TB teams were!"

In all his years as a full-time starter, Vinny has only thrown more TDs than INTs 5 times. And 2 of those years, he barely threw more tds than picks. So, in reality, he's only had about 4 good seasons as a starter in the NFL. Counting all the years where he was NEAR the 50-50 TD/INT mark, i count 7. That's 7 average seasons. 3 years with a good bit more INTs (4+) than TDs. 3 more years where he didn't really play that much, and this year make 18 total NFL season. So, thats 10+ years of being bad or mediocre, 4 good seasons, 3 as a part-time player, and 1 season still to be determined (this year). This pretty much proves what I said earlier. Vinny's no great shakes and has MORE than had his share of problems as a QB, and now he's on the wrong side of 40. No thank you. I sure wish we would have made a run at Warner instead.

I`m reposting this for Gah`s, etc., sake,

Since I also don`t believe in giving QB`s W-L records, I tried to stay away from this thread. But I`ve just read too many VT-Myths, too much VT-Bashing, just way too much pure BS, etc., to remain silent any longer.

1st, VT was on horrible, LOSING TB teams the 1st 6 yrs. of his career! He may not have succeeded there but neither did any other QB for yrs. after VT left. Even Steve Young didn`t make it there but he fortunately got out before his career was almost ruined like VT`s almost was there!!!

It`s no coincidence then that in his 1st yr. out of TB in 93, VT had his 1st .500 or better record, going 4-4 in 8 starts on a less than average Browns team. For the 1st time, he also threw more TD`s than picks, 14-9. For the 1st time, he also finished with a QB rating above 80 - 85.7! This was good enough for 3rd in the league! He also celebrated his departure from TB by setting the comp. % record for a game, comp. 21-23 for 216 yds. with 2 TD`s and 0 picks against the Rams. That`s outstanding enough to be a 91.3 comp.% with a QB rating of 134.8 in a 42-14 blow-out!

In 94, VT led an above average Browns team to a 9-4 record in 13 starts, (injured other 3 games). He also passed them to a win over Parcell`s Pats in the PRESSURE-PACKED Playoffs where VT had, considering the PRESSURE, importance, etc., the best game of his career up to that point! That yr., he also led his off. to well over 22 pts./game!

In 95, he passed the Browns to a 3-1 start. Then news of the team moving leaked out and the entire team, except for VT it seemed, quit and was terrible from that point on! Despite this, VT still somehow managed to throw 17 TD`s to only 10 picks and finish as the 3rd-rated QB in the league again with an 87.8 QB rating!

In 96, on a horrible Balt. team, VT passed his off. to about 28 pts./game, threw 33 TD passes to lead the league and only 19 picks and finished as the 3rd-rated passer once again, ahead of Marino, Bledsoe, etc., with an 88.7 QB rating! He became just 1 of a few QB`s in NFL history to have a 30+ TD - 4000+ YD. season, made the Pro Bowl despite his horrible team, was among best red zone QB`s in the league, had 5 games of 300+ yds. passing, had 1 game of 400+ yds. passing, set or tied several team and NFL records, etc., etc., etc. which still stand today!!!

In 97, on a HORRIBLE Balt. team, in 13 starts, (injured last 3), he still somehow managed to throw 18 TD`s to only 15 picks. Since the team was so HORRIBLE, they decided to get rid of VT and go with a youth movement at the end of the season. However, here too, for yrs. afterwards, ALL the QB`s following VT STUNK!!!

In 98, he led the Jets to a 12-1, (that`s right...that`s no typo...I repeat...a 12-1 record), record and the Jets finished 12-4 overall for their best record and most WINS ever!!! He also led his off. to well over 24 pts./game and threw 29 TD passes to lead the AFC once again - the 2nd time in 3 yrs. - and he threw only 7 picks for the 4th best TD-INT% in NFL history of ALL QB`s with the required no. of pass atts. Thus, he won the AFC passing title with a 101.6 QB rating ahead of QB`s like Elway and had a rating higher than Young, Aikman, Farve and ALL of the other great QB`s in the AFC and NFC except Cunningham!!! In a PRESSURE-PACKED game against Mia., he passed the Jets to a 21-16 win and a Playoff birth! The folowing week, in another PRESSURE-PACKED game, VT came thru once again BIG TIME, throwing the WINNING TD pass to Ward on a long bomb in the 3rd qt. to beat Buf. 17-10. This WIN gave the Jets their 1st div. crown ever! He was also the best 3rd-down QB in the league, the best 4th qt. QB in the league, among the best red zone QB`s in the league, voted team MVP, voted to the Pro Bowl by his peers, many of whom were on defs. which he shredded, set or tied numerous team and NFL records, etc., etc., etc.!!! He went on to lead the Jets to within less than a half from going to the Super Bowl!

In 99, he was injured in the 1st game and missed the rest of season.

In 00, on a less than average team with numerous problems, he passed the Jets to a 9-7 record. 4 of the 9 WINS came almost solely courtesy of VT`s arm after the team fell way behind. It never mattered how or why they were way behind or if VT was partially to blame, he more than made up for it by passing the team back to, yet, another PRESSURE-PACKED VT-Comeback WIN!!! That yr., this included the now-famous, "Miracle at Midnight", game, which was recently voted by the fans as the best Mon. Night football game ever!!!

In 01, on an average team with many problems, VT was put into an off. which didn`t fit his strengths at all! This was Hackette`s version of the wco and VT`s 1st yr. in it. It didn`t matter. VT STILL led the Jets to a 10-6 record which is a very good WON-loss record for any QB in the 1st yr. of such a system and he threw 15 TD passes to 14 picks! In fact, regardless of everything else, VT still played well enough for the Jets to WIN 10 times and lose 6 times and that`s DARN good! Again, there were 3, (30% of the Jet WINS), more PRESSURE-PACKED games where the Jets fell way behind with VT passing them back to WINS in ALL 3 of these PRESSURE-PACKED games!!! In fact, 7 of these PRESSURE-PACKED VT-Comeback WINS out of the Jet 19 WINS, (nearly 40%), in 00 and 01 combined came courtesy of VT`s right arm in VT-Comeback WINS!!! VT then had another outstanding game in the PRESSURE-PACKED, SUDDEN DEATH Playoffs, playing well enough to WIN once again, comp. 27-41, (65.9%), for 277 yds. with 3 TD`s and 0 picks for a QB rating of 109.5!!! It should be pointed out that VT played best after the Jets fell way behind and Hackette was forced to take the chains off! This is worth pointing out because this is ultimately what allowed VT to play well enough to pass the Jets to 3 PRESSURE-PACKED VT-Comeback WINS that yr., etc., etc., etc., and to play SO WELL in the PRESSURE-PACKED Playoffs!!!

In 02, at the start of the season, the Jets were horrible!!! They had several new players who hadn`t learned the system or how to play as units, etc., etc., etc., yet. This caused a terrible start to the season which VT became the scapegoat for and was eventually replaced by Chad Pennington.

In 03, on a horrible Jet team, VT went 2-5 starting but virtually without a pre-season! Therefore, VT never actually looked ready for the season until around the 5th game or so! Regardless, VT was only one of just a few Jets that were playing well, comp. numerous passes downfield including a lot of 20+ yders. and throwing 7 TD`s to only 2 picks for a QB rating of 90.6! It`s worth noting here that VT could`ve easily had this team at 4-2 or better before the Eagle game if not for the facts that the Jets didn`t play him much at all in the pre-season, the team was absolutely lousy in most phases of the game the 1st 4 games, VT had several TD passes DROPPED, etc., etc., etc.! It`s no coincidence then that VT started playing even better from the 4th game on and led the Jets to 2 straight WINS and, therefore, was in the middle of turning the Jet season around just like he had in 98! But the nice chemistry VT had just developed with the rest of the team was completely shattered when he was replaced by Pennington in the Eagles game, who promptly threw an INT. to blow the Eagles game and he went on to lead the Jets to a 6-10 record.

In 04, Dal. started out the yr. with numerous problems but seem to have improved in many of these areas since being blown-out by Minn. With Parcells as his coach again, VT, who kept himself in excellent physical condition and can still fling it a good 65 yds. in the air, is in an off. system which fits his strengths and at times, he looks much more like a 30-35 yr. old! He`s playing much like he did in 98 except for only 1 bad qt. against the Browns! The team is 2-3 but could just as easily be 3-2 or 4-1 while VT has thrown 5 TD`s and 4 picks - 3 in that qt. against the Browns - for a QB rating of 83! In fact, his QB rating would be around the same as it was in 98 except for that one qt. The difference is that the rest of that 98 Jet team played well also while Dal. hasn`t played that well so far!!!

So, ALL since 92, VT`s a 3 Time Playoff - 2 Time Pro Bowl QB! He`s set and tied numerous team and NFL records and this is better than most QB`s who`ve played the game!

Since 92, he has an above .500 record as a starter, has thrown many more TD`s than picks for one of the best TD-INT% in the NFL, etc., etc., etc.!!!

Since 92, VT`s been on mostly average or worse teams but has still played well enough to WIN most of the time as SHOWN above! He`s played on so many bad teams that it seems he`s actually learned to play well on them!

Any QB can play well on a good team but you show me one who plays well on a bad team and I`ll show you a good QB every time!

So, since 92, VT`s played well and has WON the few times there has been at least a bit of talent around him just like any other good QB! But he`s also played well without talent, (no QB can raise the level of play if no talent is there to be raised), around him just like a good QB would and none of this fits the definition of a loser! In fact, ALL this fits the definition of a true WINNER!!!

Anyone can see from ALL this that I`m right, that Gah`s only making the nos. say what he wants them to say and that Motley is just plain wrong!!!

[Gah]

I read that all earlier, major, and honestly it just sounds like an excuse. When you boil it down, Vinny has not been an exceptional or even a GOOD qb. He's been OK. That's all he ever was. And at age 41, its apparent that he cannot lead an offense to do what all offenses must - and that's score Touchdowns. I don't want to hear the excuse of how our running game isn't as good as it was last year, blah blah. We are 10th in the NFL in yards per carry, at 4.2. Last year we were 24th, at 3.8 or 3.9 per. The running game IS working this year, we just aren't using it. We pass way too much; which is why I said this isn't ALL vinny's fault, the playcalling shoulders some blame as well. But in the end, the offense isn't scoring, and Vinny is its caretaker.

[Hollywood Henderson]

Vinny has been very good, so much better then last years poor excuse for a NFL QB...Lets all focus on the major idiot (Major reason why we lose) of the team...That goof ball zimmy/squiggy WUSS!

[Gah]

Vinny has been very good, so much better then last years poor excuse for a NFL QB...Lets all focus on the major idiot (Major reason why we lose) of the team...That goof ball zimmy/squiggy WUSS!

No argument there about zimmer. But that poor excuse for an NFL qb from last year did a better job of getting the offense into the endzone, AND he didn't have Key to work with and was saddled with THam's 2-yards-and-a-cloud-of-suck to deal with. I'll be so glad when Henson hits the field as a starter next year.