Mort

[lshaver22]

Hi,
I usually read the boards and don't post very often, but I saw something on Countdown that surprisingly hadn't been mentioned on here (to the best of my knowledge).
Mort was asked about Dallas and he said this year's defense finally convinced Parcells that he needed to use Jerry's money and get some bigger defenders. Though Mort didn't necessarily say it, the implication was that Parcells originally planned to do this last offseason, but last year's number one ranking convinced him to keep the statuts quo on D.
The follow up question was about Parcells leaving this offseason. Mort said that would only happen if Jerry wouldn't spend money for free agents.
I don't know what Mort's access is, so this could all be idle speculation, but I thought it was worth posting.

[Juke99]

Thanks for the post...I wonder what goes on behind the scenes with those two...I'll be glad if Jerry gets into the FA game during this off season..

Detroit has 6 FA starters on their team, acquired this offseason...money well spent...

[BulletBob]

Thanks for the post...I wonder what goes on behind the scenes with those two...I'll be glad if Jerry gets into the FA game during this off season..

Detroit has 6 FA starters on their team, acquired this offseason...money well spent...

Seems like the Iggles got some great buys at the mall this year too!

[Waffle]

Hi,
I usually read the boards and don't post very often, but I saw something on Countdown that surprisingly hadn't been mentioned on here (to the best of my knowledge).
Mort was asked about Dallas and he said this year's defense finally convinced Parcells that he needed to use Jerry's money and get some bigger defenders. Though Mort didn't necessarily say it, the implication was that Parcells originally planned to do this last offseason, but last year's number one ranking convinced him to keep the statuts quo on D.
The follow up question was about Parcells leaving this offseason. Mort said that would only happen if Jerry wouldn't spend money for free agents.
I don't know what Mort's access is, so this could all be idle speculation, but I thought it was worth posting.
Actually, I'm shocked Nors hasn't been all over this tonight. I saw the same segment with Mortenson and basically what lshaver22 says is accurate. Mort also said that Parcells believes smaller defensive players wear down quicker and wants bigger defenders who are still fast. It sounded to me like Mort has talked to Parcells, although he didn't say that he did. Remember they are friends and worked together at ESPN.

Also on DallasCowboys.com Lunch Break today, Derek Eagleton had already made similar comments to the same effect as Mort did, but he went further and said that he thinks Parcells is regretting not phasing out the undersized players starting last year and he believes he wants to run some 3-4 like he tried in pre-season but doesn't have the personnel. He then went on to say that he wouldn't be surprised to see Coakley gone after this season.

Neither guy mentioned anything about Parcells wanting to get rid of Zimmer though. Sorry GROZers! :)

[2much2soon]

So if thats the case, what undersized guys go after this season?

Coakley? Gotta think he'd be gone anyway

Nguyen? Definetley falls into the undersized category at 5'11" 238

Glover? Still a big motor guy but doesn't seem as affective this year

Singleton? Not miniature at 6'2" but sorta light at 236. He has been so invisible this season I almost forgot he was on the team.

Who else?

[junk]

So if thats the case, what undersized guys go after this season?

Coakley? Gotta think he'd be gone anyway

Nguyen? Definetley falls into the undersized category at 5'11" 238

Glover? Still a big motor guy but doesn't seem as affective this year

Singleton? Not miniature at 6'2" but sorta light at 236. He has been so invisible this season I almost forgot he was on the team.

Who else?

Bradie James is bigger, but that guy has been at the root of every major gain this year by a RB. Bigger doesn't mean better. James is a liability in the run game right now.

[Yakuza Rich]

I saw that last night and I took the part where Parcells may leave with a grain of salt. I think the lack of spending in this offseason had a lot to do with the FA pool being a bit thin, thus a lot of FA’s were overpaid since the market was in their favor.

One of the things that has been obvious to me is that Parcells wants bigger players. Almost every one of the defensive players is pretty large for their position:

Willie Blade – 325 lb NT

Kenyon Coleman 6’5” 285 lb DE

Marcellus Wiley 6’4” 278 lb DE

Chris Cooper 6’5” 285 lb DE

Chad Eaton 6’5” 303 DT

Ryan Fowler 6’3” 243 lbs LB

Bradie James 6’2” 245 lbs LB

Scott Shanle 6’2” 237 lbs LB

Al Singleton 6’2” 235 lbs LB


I’d say your average DE weight is around 260-265 lbs. So Coleman, Wiley, and Cooper are quite large.

The one thing about sports is that weight and height measurements are typically grossly erroneous. In football, I think they screw up the weight measurement more than the height measurement. I’ve helped host charity golf events and there’s no way that Junior Seau weighs 250 lbs and there’s no way that Jason Taylor weighs 255 lbs.

So I tend to look at height for LB’s and I think anything above 6’0” tall is above average and that probably means that they are actually bigger than somebody who supposedly is shorter than them, but weighs the same amount.


Rich………………………

[lshaver22]

Actually, my thoughts are similar to 2much2soons. If getting bigger means going to a 3-4, there may be some fairly drastic changes. If you look at the rosters of 3-4 teams (which I did because I couldn't really get get motivated to do anything else at work yesterday. Don't tell my boss!), you'll notice at a minimum most of the Ends are at a minimum 6-3 285 lbs. It seems most 3-4 teams like to go about 300 lbs across the defensive line. My question is: What do you do with Ellis? On most rosters I've seen him at about 6-6 at anywhere from 265 to 275. Do you bulk him up and play him at End? Do you just leave him the way he is (since he has been a strongside End most of his career anyway)? Or (and this one is out there) do you have him drop some weight and play him at OLB (like Atlanta tried to do with Kerney)?
Glover is in a similar situation. He may become a rotation player in the 3-4. The change could mean the end of Coakley here (though Pittsburgh did make a play for him as an ILB in free agency a few years ago). I would think Nguyen could probably stick as a 3-4 ILB, just looking at the numbers, though that's really all I am going off of here (Since I don't really know how actual skills in the 4-3 translate to the 3-4 for linemen and linebackers).

[Hollywood Henderson]

Junk: I disagree, its lil dat the nat who is at fault for most of our woes in the running game...As a MLB in our wussified scheme, everything funnels to him...However, He is easily blocked...A forearm is often enough to shove him past the hole...He can't ever rush the QB and even the smallest of RB's run him over...

James is our ONLY LBer who can bring the pain...

Lil dat would start on NO other team in the NFL...Nor would Dex...

Sorry, but thats the truth...

[Kittymama]

When he came in last year, many of the comments from sportswriters expressed surprise that he had kept so much of the defense. Since his days with the Giants, he's been known for being in love with big defensive players. (Belichick follows that mold--Ted Washington, & their rookie draft pick this year--can't remember his name.) He kinda bowed to Jerry last year & gave in on some things, including seeing what he had on defense. Over the years, Dallas featured speedy (but small) defenders, but those guys do wear down--especially if they're on the field all the time. He clearly was pleasantly surprised with what he saw & may have been more sold on them than he should have this year. Jerry has consistently shown that he's willing to (over)spend with the best of them, so I wouldn't doubt that they go looking for some big guys this coming year. Don't be surprised in the draft to see some possible trading down if necessary to pick up lots of big guys as opposed to some of the flashier positions some people would like to see.

[Kittymama]

I don't have a horse in it either way, but I'll say this in defense of Zimmer. He's had to deal with primarily small players these past years. He's done what he could with them--at times pretty effectively. If he gets some bigger guys, there's no telling what he could do with them. I wouldn't write him off just yet--he could be another budding Belichick or Crennel.

(It's interesting that Greg Williams is this year's Don Zimmer. Everyone keeps praising his swarming defense--which is a nice way of saying "little." I'd be curious to see where they are next year.)

[wileedog]

When he came in last year, many of the comments from sportswriters expressed surprise that he had kept so much of the defense. Since his days with the Giants, he's been known for being in love with big defensive players. (Belichick follows that mold--Ted Washington, & their rookie draft pick this year--can't remember his name.) He kinda bowed to Jerry last year & gave in on some things, including seeing what he had on defense. Over the years, Dallas featured speedy (but small) defenders, but those guys do wear down--especially if they're on the field all the time. He clearly was pleasantly surprised with what he saw & may have been more sold on them than he should have this year. Jerry has consistently shown that he's willing to (over)spend with the best of them, so I wouldn't doubt that they go looking for some big guys this coming year. Don't be surprised in the draft to see some possible trading down if necessary to pick up lots of big guys as opposed to some of the flashier positions some people would like to see.


I really get the feeling that Bill just genuinely liked last years team. I think guys like Dat and Dex impressed him with their work ethic, and it was tough to argue with the results - even if they weren't truly indicative of our real talent level.

IMO sentimentality played a large part in our FA inactivity. Probably about the only bright side to our sucking it up so bad this season is that he's unlikely to make the same mistake this offseason.

[dbair1967]

Seems like the Iggles got some great buys at the mall this year too!

20 mil signing bonus for 3 sacks was "good buy"???

:rolleyes:

David

[BulletBob]

20 mil signing bonus for 3 sacks was "good buy"???

:rolleyes:

David

David, have you been watching the Eagles? I live just outside of Philly, so not only do I hear about it all day long on talk radio, but I read it in the papers.

Kearse actually has 4 sacks (and 1 fumble recovery) which is 4 more than "Dat Dude" we got. Kearse is consistently pulling double-teams. In spite of that, he seems to be in the backfield applying pressure on a pretty consistent basis.

Personally, I would have gone after Ogunleye (younger talent, larger upside). This was the one glaring position that could have made all of the difference on D. Consistent pressure on the opposing QB is inversely proportional to the pressure on your CBs to cover effectively. If we had gotten a monster in here, Glover & Ellis would be wreaking havoc right now, giving opposing QBs little time to adjust and throw accurately.

DE was the one position on this team that could have created the maximum impact ... and we went bargain-hunting.

[Duane]

20 mil signing bonus for 3 sacks was "good buy"???

:rolleyes:

David
I'll agree with you on that one. Add that to the fact that he has injury concerns and passing on Kerse didn't bother me.

[Mike 1967]

I don't have a horse in it either way, but I'll say this in defense of Zimmer. He's had to deal with primarily small players these past years. He's done what he could with them--at times pretty effectively. If he gets some bigger guys, there's no telling what he could do with them. I wouldn't write him off just yet--he could be another budding Belichick or Crennel.

(It's interesting that Greg Williams is this year's Don Zimmer. Everyone keeps praising his swarming defense--which is a nice way of saying "little." I'd be curious to see where they are next year.)


The praise for Greg Williams defense is not a new phenomena. He was doing the exact same thing as Buffalo's head coach. They had the #2 rated defense even though they fielded the 30th rated offense.

And he has now taken last years 25th ranked defense and turned it into the #1 rated defense this year.

It's hard not to get excited about Greg Williams.

[dbair1967]

David, have you been watching the Eagles? I live just outside of Philly, so not only do I hear about it all day long on talk radio, but I read it in the papers.

Kearse actually has 4 sacks (and 1 fumble recovery) which is 4 more than "Dat Dude" we got. Kearse is consistently pulling double-teams. In spite of that, he seems to be in the backfield applying pressure on a pretty consistent basis.

Personally, I would have gone after Ogunleye (younger talent, larger upside). This was the one glaring position that could have made all of the difference on D. Consistent pressure on the opposing QB is inversely proportional to the pressure on your CBs to cover effectively. If we had gotten a monster in here, Glover & Ellis would be wreaking havoc right now, giving opposing QBs little time to adjust and throw accurately.

DE was the one position on this team that could have created the maximum impact ... and we went bargain-hunting.

yeah I've been watching them, they remind me alot of the choke team from last yr except their passing game is better...the defense is pretty lousy, and so far Kearse is proving me right about him, he isnt worth anywhere near the money he got...Ellis gets double and triple teamed all the time, he has 6 sacks, and we didnt pay him a 20 million signing bonus

David

[MichaelWinicki]

I'll agree with you on that one. Add that to the fact that he has injury concerns and passing on Kerse didn't bother me.


Exactly.

And he hasn't done a lot for the Eagles rush defense either.

[junk]

Junk: I disagree, its lil dat the nat who is at fault for most of our woes in the running game...As a MLB in our wussified scheme, everything funnels to him...However, He is easily blocked...A forearm is often enough to shove him past the hole...He can't ever rush the QB and even the smallest of RB's run him over...

James is our ONLY LBer who can bring the pain...

Lil dat would start on NO other team in the NFL...Nor would Dex...

Sorry, but thats the truth...


Watch the games closely. James has been blown up on some big running plays this year.

[Chocolate Lab]

Watch the games closely. James has been blown up on some big running plays this year.
And the two long TD runs by Barber and Green were almost identical... Both times he failed to get over and fill that hole.

Not to pin it all on him, but bigger isn't always better.

[jterrell]

Actually, my thoughts are similar to 2much2soons. If getting bigger means going to a 3-4, there may be some fairly drastic changes. If you look at the rosters of 3-4 teams (which I did because I couldn't really get get motivated to do anything else at work yesterday. Don't tell my boss!), you'll notice at a minimum most of the Ends are at a minimum 6-3 285 lbs. It seems most 3-4 teams like to go about 300 lbs across the defensive line. My question is: What do you do with Ellis? On most rosters I've seen him at about 6-6 at anywhere from 265 to 275. Do you bulk him up and play him at End? Do you just leave him the way he is (since he has been a strongside End most of his career anyway)? Or (and this one is out there) do you have him drop some weight and play him at OLB (like Atlanta tried to do with Kerney)?
Glover is in a similar situation. He may become a rotation player in the 3-4. The change could mean the end of Coakley here (though Pittsburgh did make a play for him as an ILB in free agency a few years ago). I would think Nguyen could probably stick as a 3-4 ILB, just looking at the numbers, though that's really all I am going off of here (Since I don't really know how actual skills in the 4-3 translate to the 3-4 for linemen and linebackers).


Greg Ellis is 280 pounds or so. He hasn't been less than 270 since his rookie year if he even was then. He's a prototype 3-4 DE.

Wiley might can even be a 3-4 DE. The question is what od you do with Glover? He ISNT a 3-4 DT. We also need OLB to run the 3-4.

Dat also isn't small, he's short. He weighs about 250 which is huge for a guy 5'9" at most. His arms are as big as most peoples legs.

We need a quality NT and a good pass rushing OLB.
I think going after Joey Porter in free agency and drafting Rod Wright or Antajj Hawthorne would be a heck of a start on running at least some 3-4.

[Yakuza Rich]

Shaun Rogers and Jason Ferguson should be two guys to look at for FA. The problem I have with drafting a DT is it's such a difficult and unappeasing position that it usually takes a few years for a DT to develop.

Rich..................

[lshaver22]

I went back to NFL.com in search of the prototype 3-4 end. To the best of my somewhat limited knowledge, five teams run the 3-4 (Baltimore, Houston, New England, Pittsburgh, and Oakland). All of their starting 3-4 ends weighs more than Ellis.

Before I step up on my rickety soapbox, some thoughts:
1) I don't know how accurate these figures are. In the NBA, for instance, heights are often padded by the teams. So, jterrell, may be privy to more accurate information than what's available on the web. If that's the case, the point of this reply is even more meaningless than I envisioned when I started copying and pasting 10 minutes ago.
2) Even if these figures are correct, at 6-6, Ellis could probably add the 15-20 lbs to make himself a prototype end.
3) Glover is very similar in size to guys like Douglas. So maybe he could be serviceable as an end in this defense.

My main point is: So far this year Ellis has arguably been the best performer in a very mediocre defense. In addition, the team may have the longest term financial commitment to him of anyone on the defense. If it isn't the longest, it has to be in the top two or three. So by switching to the 3-4, you're going to a defense where your best player (at this time) doesn’t really fit, according to his physical specifications. So, you bulk him up, make him take on more blockers, and negate his suddenly polished pass rushing skills (if he doesn’t touch a QB in the next three weeks, though, this argument suddenly becomes much shakier). Add in the difficulty of transitioning Glover, Singleton, and Coakley to the 3-4 and this task becomes a much bigger challenge. It’s not insurmountable (especially with guys like James, Shanle, Coleman, etc., waiting in the wings), but bigger.

Borrowed from NFL.com:
# 98 Greg Ellis
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 271
Born: 08/14/1975
College: North Carolina
NFL Experience: 7


Other starting 3-4 Ends
Baltimore:
# 98 Tony Weaver
Position: DE
Height: 6-3
Weight: 290
Born: 07/28/1980
College: Notre Dame
NFL Experience: 3

Marques Douglas
Position: DE
Height: 6-2
Weight: 290
Born: 03/05/1977
College: Howard
NFL Experience: 5

Houston:
# 96 Gary Walker
Position: DE
Height: 6-2
Weight: 324
Born: 02/28/1973
College: Auburn
NFL Experience: 10

# 99 Robaire Smith
Position: DE
Height: 6-4
Weight: 328
Born: 11/15/1977
College: Michigan State
NFL Experience: 5

New England:
# 94 Ty Warren
Position: DE
Height: 6-5
Weight: 300
Born: 02/06/1981
College: Texas A&M
NFL Experience: 2

93 Richard Seymour
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 310
Born: 10/06/1979
College: Georgia
NFL Experience: 4

Pittsburgh:
# 91 Aaron Smith
Position: DE
Height: 6-5
Weight: 298
Born: 04/09/1976
College: Northern Colorado
NFL Experience: 6

# 67 Kimo von Oelhoffen
Position: DE
Height: 6-4
Weight: 299
Born: 01/30/1971
College: Boise State
NFL Experience: 11

Oakland:
# 91 Tyler Brayton
Position: DE
Height: 6-6
Weight: 280
Born: 11/20/1979
College: Colorado
NFL Experience: 2

# 99 Warren Sapp
Position: DT
Height: 6-2
Weight: 300
Born: 12/19/1972
College: Miami (Fla.)
NFL Experience: 10

Whew, this is fun! And, yes, I do probably need to find other forms of entertainment.

[Derinyar]

To switch to a base 3-4, we have to pretty much blow up everyone on the defense. Ellis and Glover really aren't 3-4 players, both are way too light for their respective positions, and more of speed players than power players. 3-4 linemen are basically supposed to be big space filling beasts that don't necessarily sniff the QB.

To compensate for the greater likelyhood of a OL reaching the LB corps, the ILB in a 3-4 need to be large, in the 250+ range. Then you have the olb which usually are more speed guys with less need given to big size.

For next year, Wiley's gone, his cap hit and contract for next year should be about even, so hes gone. We will probably try to get a couple of players in to shore up the line, probably a DT through FA and a DE through the draft. DE tends to cost too much in FA for what you get.

[Cheap Shot Artist]

yeah I've been watching them, they remind me alot of the choke team from last yr except their passing game is better...the defense is pretty lousy, and so far Kearse is proving me right about him, he isnt worth anywhere near the money he got...Ellis gets double and triple teamed all the time, he has 6 sacks, and we didnt pay him a 20 million signing bonus

David

I'll stand by my hopes and say Glover gets traded this off season and we get 2 behemoths like Rogers through FA and Hgata (if he declares) via the draft.

That would be an awesome interior