Obama may face grilling on Patriotism

[Sasquatch]

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080223/ap_on_el_pr/obama_attack_fodder;_ylt=AtHzBNKiSzPckV43xeHjdYus0 NUE)

Obama may face grilling on patriotism
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press WriterSat Feb 23, 12:00 PM ET

Sen. Barack Obama's refusal to wear an American flag lapel pin along with a photo of him not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem led conservatives on Internet and in the media to question his patriotism.

Now Obama's wife, Michelle, has drawn their ire, too, for saying recently that she's really proud of her country for the first time in her adult life.

Conservative consultants say that combined, the cases could be an issue for Obama in the general election if he wins the nomination, especially as he runs against Vietnam war hero Sen. John McCain.

"The reason it hasn't been an issue so far is that we're still in the microcosm of the Democratic primary," said Republican consultant Roger Stone. "Many Americans will find the three things offensive. Barack Obama is out of the McGovern wing of the party, and he is part of the blame America first crowd."

Opponents of Sen. John Kerry proved in the 2004 election that voters are sensitive to suggestions that a candidate is not sufficiently patriotic. The Democratic presidential nominee's campaign was torpedoed by critics of his Vietnam War record called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, even though he won multiple military honors and was lauded by his superiors.

The Swift Boat campaign started as a relatively small television ad buy that exploded into an issue that dogged Kerry for months. The Massachusetts senator has conceded since losing to President Bush that the campaign and his lackluster response to unsubstantiated allegations he considered unworthy of a reaction likely cost him the election. And the term even became part of the campaign lexicon — swift boating.

Obama already is the subject of a shadowy smear campaign based on the Internet that falsely suggests he's a Muslim intent on destroying the United States. Obama is a Christian and has been fighting the e-mail hoax, which also claims he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance, and he's been trying to correct the misinformation.

"Whenever I'm in the United States Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America," Obama frequently tells voters.

"I've been going to the same church for 20 years, praising ," he adds.
Retired Major General Scott Gration, an Obama military adviser, said he expects the attacks will only increase if Obama wins the Democratic nomination.

"People are projecting things and taking things out of context," Gration said. "There's absolutely no question in my mind that Michelle and Barack are extremely patriotic, appreciate our freedoms and our values and everything else that the flag represents."

Officials with the McCain campaign and the Republican Party say they won't be suggesting Obama is less than patriotic, and instead plan to focus their criticisms on his record and inexperience if he wins the nomination. Well-funded outside groups, however, consider anything fair game.

Conservative Republican consultant Keith Appell, who worked with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, said Obama's opposition to the war will create a "striking contrast between McCain the war hero and Obama the poster child for the anti-war movement."

"If you are McCain, you want to play up the decorated war hero, loves his country, served his country," Appell said. "You want to play those themes up as much as possible, especially in comparison to Obama and his role in the anti-war movement."

On Monday, Michelle Obama told an audience in Milwaukee, "For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change."

Cindy McCain, McCain's wife, days later responded by saying, "I have, and always will be, proud of my country." Barack Obama has expressed frustration that his wife's remarks had been taken out of context and turned into political fodder — both the Obamas say she was talking about politics in the United States, not the country itself.

Last summer, Obama was photographed by Time magazine at an event in Iowa standing with his hands folded during the national anthem. His primary rivals Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson appear beside him, with their hands on their hearts.

It has been repeatedly reported that the moment came during the Pledge of Allegiance, but that's not the case.

In October, Obama told Iowa television station KCRG that he decided to stop wearing a U.S. flag lapel pin during the run-up to the Iraq war because it had become "a substitute for, I think, true patriotism."

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest. Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great and, hopefully, that will be a testimony to my patriotism," Obama said.

Obama's comments led conservatives and media commentators to question his patriotism.

"First he kicked his American flag pin to the curb. Now Barack Obama has a new round of patriotism problems. Wait until you hear what the White House hopeful didn't do during the singing of the national anthem," said Steve Doocy, co-host of "Fox and Friends" on the Fox News Channel.

"He felt it OK to come out of the closet as the domestic insurgent he is," former radio host Mark Williams said on Fox.

Gration said he had a copy of the national anthem photo e-mailed to him by a friend who didn't know the facts and questioned how a military man could support someone who doesn't honor the Pledge of Allegiance.

"I go to baseball games and football games and there's just a minority of us who put our hands over our heart. It's not an indication of patriotism," Gration said. Gration said he personally wears a flag pin, but "if I meet someone who doesn't have a lapel pin, it doesn't mean they are more or less patriotic than I am."

And, he added, "I don't think you can find Barack again not putting his hand over his heart at the national anthem."

[zrinkill]

I know many people that do not do that. No big deal.

[burmafrd]

But they are not running for President.

[burmafrd]

Obama better realize this is a problem and step on it quickly. Individually they do not mean much, but string them together and it looks bad.
Problem is that Obama is pretty far to the left, and they have a tendency to blame America first anyway; their record on patriotism is pretty bad as well.

[BrAinPaiNt]

People, normally the far right extremists, always kill me with the patriotism lines. Always questioning someones patriotism while at the same time being the first to easily overlook a little piece of papers known as the constitution.

With that said...I don't think anyone could question McCain on his patriotism. The guy served his country and went through horrors that many can only imagine.

There is a HUGE difference between McCain and someone like Bush. I still will not condone doing some things that go against the constitution if McCain wins but I will give him the respect he deserves as a patriot.

However just because you don't believe in the methods of the current or future admin, it does NOT mean you are not a patriot. If anything when you question the government it proves you are a patriot.

“The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.” - Mark Twain

I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
George Washington

Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.
George Washington

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
Albert Einstein

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.
Woodrow Wilson

[zrinkill]

But they are not running for President.

What does that have to do with it? I do not close my eyes during the Declaration of Independence or the Pledge of Allegiance. Does that make me unpatriotic? I also do not have a yellow ribbon on any of my vehicles. Does that mean I do not care about

If Obama was burning Flags or calling our soldiers murderers I will call him out.

But this is just political mudslinging.

[zrinkill]

People, normally the far right extremists, always kill me with the patriotism lines. Always questioning someones patriotism while at the same time being the first to easily overlook a little piece of papers known as the constitution.

Brain that is not really fair .... I think it was Clinton's cronies who brought this up a few weeks ago.

People consider me far right ..... Yet where do I stand on this?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain that is not really fair .... I think it was Clinton's cronies who brought this up a few weeks ago.

People consider me far right ..... Yet where do I stand on this?

Hence the reason I said "normally". I did not say ALL or they are the ONLY ones. :cool:

[Vintage]

People, normally the far right extremists, always kill me with the patriotism lines. Always questioning someones patriotism while at the same time being the first to easily overlook a little piece of papers known as the constitution.

With that said...I don't think anyone could question McCain on his patriotism. The guy served his country and went through horrors that many can only imagine.

There is a HUGE difference between McCain and someone like Bush. I still will not condone doing some things that go against the constitution if McCain wins but I will give him the respect he deserves as a patriot.

However just because you don't believe in the methods of the current or future admin, it does NOT mean you are not a patriot. If anything when you question the government it proves you are a patriot.

“The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.” - Mark Twain

I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
Thomas Jefferson

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
George Washington

Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.
George Washington

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
Albert Einstein

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.
Woodrow Wilson

I sooooooo agree with this post.

I just wanted to quote it so it wouldn't get lost in this thread.

[lewpac]

Anyone running for any office, who's the party "out of power", has no choice but to "bad mouth" virtually EVERYTHING about the current state of affairs to unseat the incumbent, or the incumbent party. I understand that. When the Dems hold the office, the Republicans need to talk down everything from the economy to the military. And vice-versa, like we're seeing now from Umbabba and the She-Witch.

Umbabba's problem is that being an uber-lefty/commie lib, that being negative and seeing everything wrong and dastardly about the "current state of affairs" is built into his genetic wiring. Conservatives aren't pre-disposed to constantly be looking over their shoulders at make-believe ghosts, goblins and shadows that simply aren't there. Liberals, on the other hand, it's just part of their DNA.

When Regan, Bush the elder, and Bush Jr. were in office, Republican/conservatives were generally a pleasant lot, happy, and in good spirits. Liberals, on the other hand, even when the laughable Carter and that tom-cat Clinton were in office, STILL always have a look on their face like they just smelled poop! THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE between conservatism (i.e. sanity) and liberalism (i.e INsanity). Liberals, lest they have no reason for their existence, need to walk around with a corn-cob shoved up their ***, a look on their face, and a nasty negative demeanor to accompany the feeling their getting from the corn cob. It's what makes them tick. Bitterness, envy, hypocrisy, jealousy, rudeness, and hatred.

For the group that fancies themselves as "tolerant" and "all inclusive", try uttering something to the affect of "the Scripture", or that you don't think that people are "born gay", or that you don't believe in the latest hoax called "global warming", and you'll see how "tolerant" and "inclusive" they really are. And you'll also see how they really feel about "free speech".

They're all for "free speech" and "tolerance" as long as you stay in lemming-goose step with the talking points supplied the robots. Utter a peep outside of the acceptable religion of liberalism, and you'll be tarred and feathered.

That's why they went after Clarence Thomas with the despicableness and evilness that they did. Absolute below-the-belt gutter snipes. And why? You would think that the uber-left Dems would embrace a black supreme court justice, right? But no, they couldn't have Clarence Thomas, because his story wasn't in line with the recipe that liberals brainwash black folk with. Thomas was a "self made man" who didn't get no "affirmative action", no hand outs, no "quota" help, no handouts. The libs can't have THAT kind of black man getting out in public, lest it destroys their agenda for black folk. THEY need to keep black folk down so they have a constituency that's so downtrodden that they'll keep voting Democrat and believe the lies they tell about "helping them out" in a land that is rigged against them.
Same with Condi Rice, who is 100 times the woman that Hillary Clinton or Maxine Watters or Nancy Pelosi could ever DREAM to be..................
Self made brilliant black gal who SHOULD be the role model for not only black girls, but EVERY little girl in this country. But the Dems and Libs hate here guts, because she represents what they can't have...................namely, telling little black girls that they do not have to lean on others, whine and complain to get some money and succeed. Pssssssstttt.................it's called HARD WORK, discipline and comittment to what you desire.............

[ScipioCowboy]

Assuming Obama is sincere, his explanations seem valid to me, and I have no reason to disbelieve him...aside from the reality that he's a politician.

[REDVOLUTION]

Clearly Obama and Wife dont like and agree with what America is today... what it has been for some time...

Their marketin plan is... old america = bad // our america = good... watch what we do

They are just being honest... maybe too honest for their own Political good...
they are new at this game... they are learning.

[silverbear]

People, normally the far right extremists, always kill me with the patriotism lines. Always questioning someones patriotism while at the same time being the first to easily overlook a little piece of papers known as the constitution.

With that said...I don't think anyone could question McCain on his patriotism. The guy served his country and went through horrors that many can only imagine.

John McCain stands for some really good things... problem is, he's too ready to turn his back on those things, in order to get elected President...

Two years ago, I could have happily voted for him, when he was standing up to Dubya... then he decided he wanted to be President, and suddenly he started running to his right...

And I'm sorry, but he's just too big a supporter of this war for me to ever vote for him... he is probably the most ardent supporter of the war we have left vying for the office...


However just because you don't believe in the methods of the current or future admin, it does NOT mean you are not a patriot. If anything when you question the government it proves you are a patriot.

When the right tries to demonize those who disagree with them as "unpatriotic", they demonstrate that they don't have the first clue what this county is REALLY supposed to stand for...

This country was built on dissent... any attempt to stifle such dissent, which is what these hamhanded attacks on the left amount to, is therefore the essence of "unpatriotic", so any who question the patriotism of those who disagree with them are the least patriotic Americans of all...

For sure, I'm a better American than the right wing fascist wannabes who pull that crap...

[silverbear]

What does that have to do with it? I do not close my eyes during the Declaration of Independence or the Pledge of Allegiance. Does that make me unpatriotic? I also do not have a yellow ribbon on any of my vehicles. Does that mean I do not care about

If Obama was burning Flags or calling our soldiers murderers I will call him out.

But this is just political mudslinging.

You ain't seen nothin' yet...

[Cajuncowboy]

Do I think Obama is unpatriotic? No. I think he thinks that what he stands for is good for America.

The problem is that what he stands for is NOT good for America.

Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to cut and run from Iraq is stupid. They don't know what that vacuum will be filled with. They simply want to leave because they are part of the anti war crowd.

Obama is one of if not the most liberal senators we have. His beliefs are sincere and that is what makes him a very dangerous proposition for America.

Patriotism comes in many forms. The Red Coats were patriots as well. They were loyal to the King. Obama is a patriot as well. He is loyal to the ideals that he would thrust upon America. They are bad and have never worked. Not one time.

[Vintage]

Do I think Obama is unpatriotic? No. I think he thinks that what he stands for is good for America.

The problem is that what he stands for is NOT good for America.

Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to cut and run from Iraq is stupid. They don't know what that vacuum will be filled with. They simply want to leave because they are part of the anti war crowd.

Obama is one of if not the most liberal senators we have. His beliefs are sincere and that is what makes him a very dangerous proposition for America.

Patriotism comes in many forms. The Red Coats were patriots as well. They were loyal to the King. Obama is a patriot as well. He is loyal to the ideals that he would thrust upon America. They are bad and have never worked. Not one time.


True. We don't know what would fill the vacuum if we left Iraq.

But we also don't know what Iraq will ultimately be like with a democracy either. IOW, they could just as easily elect a non-US supporter in the near future.

Of course, I have every bit of confidence in our CIA to undermine elections to prevent such a thing from happening.

The only way a truly free and democratic Iraq works is if Iraq is committed to it.

We cannot keep this up for years on end. The cost is simply too great. And with other rising threats, we cannot legitimately fight a war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and deal with other potential, future conflicts all at once.

At some point, we will need to pull out most of troops.

And then; Iraq chooses its path.

[yesfan]

The government offers the less fortunate a chance to get benefits and
a college education by handing them a rifle and sending them off to war.
If you have a dissenting voice your patriotism is questioned.The killing of
over a million Iraqis and thousands of our own kids for something that
should have never been engaged in is really hard to swallow considering
there is no exit strategy.I can't imagine another four years or more if we
elect McCain,who would keep us in this hell hole as he said 100 years.I
don't think we should have to grin and bare it and defend our patriotism
when Americans are just not proud of what our government has done.
Btw i am a republican just not too proud to be one.

[burmafrd]

yesfan your ignorance is remarkable.
Before you embarras yourself some more do some research.
Over a million iraqi dead. That is pathetic and just makes you look worse.

[burmafrd]

Amazing how many here are so dense. Appearences are EVERYTHING in politics today. If you appear to be unpatriotic, you will lose a presidential election. Because to a considerable number of Americans that is WRONG.

[LatinMind]

Amazing how many here are so dense. Appearences are EVERYTHING in politics today. If you appear to be unpatriotic, you will lose a presidential election. Because to a considerable number of Americans that is WRONG.

what i find funny is all these politicians questioning eachothers patriotism, but most of them were draft dodgers. my dad served for 30 yrs and cant even vote for any of these so called "patriots". he wont even vote of mccain. in his eyes he's exploiting what he's been through. he says he has respect he served, but doesnt need to hear about it every 5 seconds.

[burmafrd]

A very small percentage of the voting population has served in this day.
Its not like it was in the 60s and 70s when many men had either served or had to consider it or thought about it during the draft days.
with our much smaller military and all volunteer status, you are not going to get many any more that served running for office.
In this day of TV and sound bites and the like, if you do not sound and look right you will get worked over and more importantly a lot of people will be influenced by it. Obama has a problem and he better get on it.

Its not my country right or wrong its about being an American and not being afraid to say it and be proud of it. Our record compared to most countries on earth is pretty good; if you are not smart enough to see that then that is your problem'; but most of Americans believe that and they are the ones that will decide who wins and who loses.

[SultanOfSix]

One of the primary principals of democracy is the allowal for dissension.

To me, questioning someone's patriotism who is running for the president of the US is stupidity and essentially an oxymoron.

As far as Iraq is concerned, questioning our existence there doesn't fall under the category of being unpatriotic. If the majority of the American people want to get out of Iraq, but the government maintains that it must exist there, then the government is being unpatriotic because they aren't enforcing the will of the people. The last time I checked, since we've been in Iraq, the US government deficit has goine up by almost one trillion dollars, and the price of gas has doubled. Where is the benefit to the American people that this war is producing? The taxpayers have to pay off the debt to the financial elite, aka, the Federal Reserve, which isn't even "federal", and the average joe consumer has to pay exhorbitant gas prices.

[zrinkill]

Amazing how many here are so dense.

Post like this is why I consider you the Right's version of abersonc and jterrel.

[The30YardSlant]

Obama is just being belligerant. This has nothing to do with patriotism, it has everything to do with him being too prideful to change now that everyone is calling him out on it.

I do think, however, that if you are a citizen of the US, you should at least have enough respect for this nation and those who died for it to respect the flag. Just because you don't agree with certain policies or politicians doesnt mean that this isnt the greatest nation the world has ever seen and many great men have shed their blood to allow you the freedom to disagree with your government.