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View Full Version : Satellite strike struck diplomacy, too


WoodysGirl
02-24-2008, 06:44 PM
By CHARLES J. HANLEY, AP Special Correspondent
Sun Feb 24, 2:08 PM ET



In last week's space spectacular, a U.S. missile did more than turn a dead satellite into bits of space scrap. It also blew another hole in hopes that the world's nations could forge a treaty making outer space a weapons-free realm, analysts say.

Wednesday's orbiter shootdown by a U.S. Navy missile came just eight days after Russia and China, at the U.N. Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, submitted a draft treaty to ban weapons from space.

The U.S. action, ostensibly to eliminate a threat from a falling spy satellite, showed the world that the hundreds of communications, weather, reconnaissance and other satellites circling far overhead are vulnerable — as did a similar Chinese shootdown a year earlier.

The strike by a Navy cruiser's anti-missile missile also pointed up the fact that offensive "space weaponry" and defensive "missile shields" can be two faces of the same technology. The Navy's Aegis system, designed to intercept incoming ballistic missiles in space, became a tool of attack last week.

Missile shields are one reason Washington has long resisted efforts in Geneva to negotiate a comprehensive treaty banning weapons in space. Some U.S. shield designs even envision using orbiting systems to knock out missiles. And the Americans aren't alone.

"Hit-to-kill" technologies are spreading, to China, Japan, Israel and India, for example, noted Jeffrey Lewis, an arms-control expert at Washington's New America Foundation.

"It seems to me we may never have had the opportunity to constrain the technology," he said. "It's pretty hard for me to see that happening now."

In fact, the Russian-Chinese draft treaty doesn't directly address this difficult area of ground-based systems that can "kill" satellites.

A new Geneva pact would be the first since the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which outlawed only nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction in space. For four decades since, the rest of the world has pressed in U.N. forums for a broader ban on space weapons, but the United States has blocked it.

At the current Geneva disarmament session, because of the satellite strike, "people will beat up on the United States," said Michael Krepon, an arms-control specialist at Washington's Stimson Center.

"The Russians and Chinese will point to their treaty and try to drum up support. But it isn't really going anywhere, for familiar reasons. Nobody can define a space weapon and nobody can verify a space weapon."

It's not just anti-missile missiles that defy easy categorization. There are also ground-based or space-based lasers or jammers that could cripple satellites, and even satellites that could be maneuvered to collide with other orbiters. The Russians once wanted the U.S. space shuttle deemed a military system.

Instead of the elusive, legally binding treaty, violation of which might draw U.N. sanctions, the Stimson Center promotes the idea of a less formal "code of conduct," a halfway step by which governments pledge to avoid "harmful interference" with satellites, and not to test space weapons. The European Union and Canada are among those endorsing such a code.

"There's a growing consensus among nations, including space-faring and missile-possessing nations, that there should be some rules of the road, some standard for responsible behavior in space," said Daryl Kimball, of the Arms Control Association in Washington.

"A key is going to be what the next U.S. administration decides to do."

In a survey of presidential candidates by Washington's Council for a Livable World, Sen. Barack Obama backed a space code of conduct. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she would constrain space weaponization "as much as possible." Republican candidates did not respond.

Geneva scholar Jozef Goldblat, a longtime observer of the disarmament talks, dismisses the code idea. "Very often, such codes simply don't work. People ignore them," he said.

Krepon counters that parties to a code would have many ways to deal with a cheater, including retaliating against his satellites.

The worry that may finally unite the world for action is what Lewis calls "debris risk." If multiple countries compete in testing anti-satellite weapons, they'll litter near-space with millions of bits of debris endangering working satellites.

"You could really ruin portions of the space environment for everyone," Lewis said. "Getting everyone to understand that common interest will be the goal."

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080224/ap_on_hi_te/weapons_in_space)

Cajuncowboy
02-24-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm glad we did this. Not only does it allow us to prove that we also have peaceful uses for this technology, it gives other countries a pause and makes them a bit more concerned before they get all uppity about coming against us or our allies.

This reminds me of the Regan era when we broke the Soviet Union because they were trying to keep up with us.

We won the Cold War without firing a single missile.

vta
02-24-2008, 07:08 PM
This reminds me of the Regan era when we broke the Soviet Union because they were trying to keep up with us.

We won the Cold War without firing a single missile.


I'm glad our military did this. But I am concerned; our dollar is slumping and hostility toward our country is growing. Could we afford to follow the Reagan model in today's climate, with someone like China if necessary? A country who's economy is growing and others are looking to as a power.

Aikbach
02-24-2008, 07:16 PM
I'm glad our military did this. But I am concerned; our dollar is slumping and hostility toward our country is growing. Could we afford to follow the Reagan model in today's climate, with someone like China if necessary? A country who's economy is growing and others are looking to as a power.The chinese are a paper dragon, people talk like their destined to overtake the American economy when all credible research says otherwise.

If the American economy were to stay stagnant in its February 2008 manifestation then China would catch it and equal it in 2050 at their current astronomical rates.

What people who site the 2050 statistic fail to mention is that the U.S economy is still growing as well and will be substanially larger than that by 2050 even if the current trends continue which is unlikely. THe odds of China growing exponentially on into 2050 are unlikely and the odds of AMerca's economy faltering into depression and not growing at the pace of at least 3-8% per year are even more laughable.

Cajuncowboy
02-24-2008, 07:21 PM
I'm glad our military did this. But I am concerned; our dollar is slumping and hostility toward our country is growing. Could we afford to follow the Reagan model in today's climate, with someone like China if necessary? A country who's economy is growing and others are looking to as a power.

China is not the model other countries are looking to. They still look to us. If that were not the case, then these countries would be adopting the Communist model and they are not. How many people are trying to sneak into China for a better life? It America they come to. It's America they turn to for aid. It's ultimately America they turn to for defense as well again st the world's bullies.

Don't buy into the leftist hype (not saying you are). America is the the "Shinning City on the Hill"!

Aikbach
02-24-2008, 07:30 PM
China is not the model other countries are looking to. They still look to us. If that were not the case, then these countries would be adopting the Communist model and they are not. How many people are trying to sneak into China for a better life? It America they come to. It's America they turn to for aid. It's ultimately America they turn to for defense as well again st the world's bullies.

Don't buy into the leftist hype (not saying you are). America is the the "Shinning City on the Hill"!While that romantic literature has its place the reality of America's worldly strength stems from the fact that free market capitalism drives innovation and permits human nature to be its unbridled greedy self. We are live and let live in (unless you're a fetus) in this country because pluralism is the road to financial prosperity thus America has a civil religion that is her patriotism.

I love my country deeply but I am cautious and guarded about singing her praises as if she were worthy of deification, I love my religious freedom and freedom of speech, these are great but the republic mainly is powerful because it is too damn expensive not to go with her flow, money silences more complaints than it summons and America has the biggest piece of the pie.

Cajuncowboy
02-24-2008, 07:38 PM
While that romantic literature has its place the reality of America's worldly strength stems from the fact that free market capitalism drives innovation and permits human nature to be its unbridled greedy self. We are live and let live in (unless you're a fetus) in this country because pluralism is the road to financial prosperity thus America has a civil religion that is her patriotism.

I love my country deeply but I am cautious and guarded about singing her praises as if she were worthy of deification, I love my religious freedom and freedom of speech, these are great but the republic mainly is powerful because it is too damn expensive not to go with her flow, money silences more complaints than it summons and America has the biggest piece of the pie.

True enough, which is why I say that no other country is going to look at a Communist country as it's model for the very reason you said. It stifles capitalism and innovation from the private sector.

You only have to look at the accomplishments of the two nations with respect to their age.

China Thousands of years old.....America just over 200....

Yet we are the best, the most free and the leaders in terms of business and capitalist ventures.

I'm not cautious at all about singing her praises. She deserves it. America....We are the best! That may be arrogant but it is also the truth.

(I need a flag smiley here.) :D

vta
02-24-2008, 08:46 PM
The chinese are a paper dragon, people talk like their destined to overtake the American economy when all credible research says otherwise.

If the American economy were to stay stagnant in its February 2008 manifestation then China would catch it and equal it in 2050 at their current astronomical rates.

What people who site the 2050 statistic fail to mention is that the U.S economy is still growing as well and will be substanially larger than that by 2050 even if the current trends continue which is unlikely. THe odds of China growing exponentially on into 2050 are unlikely and the odds of AMerca's economy faltering into depression and not growing at the pace of at least 3-8% per year are even more laughable.

But does this economic projection include another arms race?
With Putin obviously chomping at the bit for another one and China joining in, how does this affect such projections?

I know China is not a model of what a land of opportunity is, but it is growing and business is business and where business is, people follow, including Americans.

zrinkill
02-24-2008, 10:02 PM
I'm glad we did this. Not only does it allow us to prove that we also have peaceful uses for this technology, it gives other countries a pause and makes them a bit more concerned before they get all uppity about coming against us or our allies.

This reminds me of the Regan era when we broke the Soviet Union because they were trying to keep up with us.

We won the Cold War without firing a single missile.

:bow:

BrAinPaiNt
02-25-2008, 05:26 AM
I'm glad our military did this. But I am concerned; our dollar is slumping and hostility toward our country is growing. Could we afford to follow the Reagan model in today's climate, with someone like China if necessary? A country who's economy is growing and others are looking to as a power.

Kind of hard to get into a military spending war with China...when we keep borrowing money from them.:D

sacase
02-25-2008, 06:39 AM
Our military budget is the largest in the world by far. I think it is more than many countries GNP.

burmafrd
02-25-2008, 06:59 AM
After the way china was acting about their own anti satelite program? As usual somehow we are to blame for everything.

BrAinPaiNt
02-25-2008, 07:01 AM
After the way china was acting about their own anti satelite program? As usual somehow we are to blame for everything.

Poor us...the victims.:D

burmafrd
02-25-2008, 07:02 AM
I LOVE sticking a big dirty nasty finger in ANY communist countries eye.

BrAinPaiNt
02-25-2008, 07:03 AM
I LOVE sticking a big dirty nasty finger in ANY communist countries eye.

Be careful, you might get lead paint on your finger.:laugh2: