Stumping for Clinton, Steinem Says McCain's P.O.W. Cred Is Overrated

[Danny White]

Stumping for Clinton, Steinem Says McCain's P.O.W. Cred Is Overrated
by Niall Stanage | March 2, 2008


AUSTIN, Texas—Feminist icon Gloria Steinem took to the stump on Hillary Clinton’s behalf here last night and quickly proved that she has lost none of her taste for provocation.

From the stage, the 73-year-old seemed to denigrate the importance of John McCain’s time as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. In an interview with the Observer afterward, she suggested that Barack Obama benefits—and Clinton suffers—because Americans view racism more seriously than sexism.

Steinem also told the crowd that one reason to back Clinton was because “she actually enjoys conflict.”

And she claimed that if Clinton’s experience as First Lady were taken seriously in relation to her White House bid, people might “finally admit that, say, being a secretary is the best way to learn your boss’s job and take it over.”

Steinem raised McCain’s Vietnam imprisonment as she sought to highlight an alleged gender-based media bias against Clinton.

“Suppose John McCain had been Joan McCain and Joan McCain had got captured, shot down and been a POW for eight years. [The media would ask], ‘What did you do wrong to get captured? What terrible things did you do while you were there as a captive for eight years?’” Steinem said, to laughter from the audience.

McCain was, in fact, a prisoner of war for around five-and-a-half years, during which time he was tortured repeatedly. Referring to his time in captivity, Steinem said with bewilderment, “I mean, hello? This is supposed to be a qualification to be president? I don’t think so.”

Steinem’s broader argument was that the media and the political world are too admiring of militarism in all its guises.

“I am so grateful that she [Clinton] hasn’t been trained to kill anybody. And she probably didn’t even play war games as a kid. It’s a great relief from Bush in his jump suit and from Kerry saluting.”

To the Observer, Steinem insisted that “from George Washington to Jack Kennedy and PT-109 we have behaved as if killing people is a qualification for ruling people.”

Other Clinton proxies, notably Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson and a New Hampshire campaign chair, Billy Shaheen, have generated controversies with their criticisms of Obama. By contrast, Steinem told me the Illinois senator was “an intelligent, well-intentioned person.” She added: “I would like very much to see him be president for eight years after Hillary has been president for eight years.”

But she also opined that “a majority of Americans want redemption for racism, for our terrible destructive racist past and so see a vote for Obama as redemptive.” Then, using a term for the mass killing of women, she added, “I don’t think as many want redemption for the gynocide.”

“They acknowledge racism—not enough, but somewhat,” Steinem continued. “They would probably be less likely to acknowledge that the most likely way a pregnant woman is to die is murder from her male partner. There are six million female lives lost in the world every year simply because they are female.”

Steinem has been a Clinton supporter for several years—even though, as she reminded me, she protested against Bill Clinton’s welfare reforms outside the White House. Her support for the former First Lady has become more high-profile of late. She penned a January op-ed for the New York Times backing Clinton and asserting that “gender is probably the most restricting force in American life.” She was also one of the women’s rights activists who signed a February 15 letter published on the Huffington Post that insisted, “It’s time for feminists to say that Senator Obama has no monopoly on inspiration.”

Yesterday’s event, billed by the Clinton campaign as “One Million for Hillary with Gloria Steinem,” was one of several appearances scheduled for the veteran feminist across Texas as Tuesday’s primary looms. It was held in a downtown music venue and was attended by around 200 people, the vast majority of whom were women. Before Steinem spoke, two Clinton campaign ads focusing on female support were shown, to applause.

In her speech, Steinem argued that there was a major sexist component to the murmurs from some quarters suggesting Clinton should abandon her presidential quest.

There is, she said, “a great deal of pressure at play for her to act like her gender and give in.” Several shouts of “No!” came from the crowd. Steinem went on: “It’s a way of reinforcing the gender roles, right? Men are loved if they win and Hillary is loved if she loses…But maybe we shouldn’t be so afraid of an open convention that actually decides something. After all, it was an open convention in New York City that gave us Abraham Lincoln.”

Steinem’s speech offered, Letterman-style, ten reasons why she was supporting Hillary. Most were serious, though one of the more flippant was “We get Bill Clinton as Eleanor Roosevelt.”

Steinem, like any good politician, also made sure to praise her surroundings. True to her own spirit, though, she did so in less decorous terms than any candidate for office would dare.

Other than Austin, she said, “there is no community in the whole world that understands how to include everybody, how to be serious and have a good time at the same time, how to be fan-****ing-tastic” quite so well.

UPDATE: The Clinton campaign sends over the following statement from Howard Wolfson: "Senator Clinton has repeatedly praised Senator McCain's courage and service to our country. These comments certainly do not represent her thinking in any way. Senator Clinton intends to have a respectful debate with Senator McCain on the issues."

[CanadianCowboysFan]

From one point of view, I understand what she means. Does the fact he was a POW back in the 1960s really have any relevance today in determining if he would be a good leader of the free world?

[BrAinPaiNt]

GS is Stupid...and Hillary's camp is grasping at straws but just grabbed a big bag of flaming dog doo.

[Jon88]

GS is Stupid...and Hillary's camp is grasping at straws but just grabbed a big bag of flaming dog doo.


It's about to burn the crap out of her.

[Hostile]

That was a very dumb thing for her to say. You don't like the man's politics, fine, but how anyone on either side of the fence can criticize his Military record and POW experience is beyond me. That's just plain silly or uninformed. Technically she insulted any man who was a POW with McCain.

Correction, she really insulted anyone who has served in the Military at all. Truly a tragic and stupid thing to say. I don't know what is more disturbing, that she said it, or that people laughed.

Maybe she doesn't realize the name Hanoi Hilton didn't mean it was a fancy hotel and he was forced to stay there.

[Jarv]

She must have been prepped by Jane Fonda.

[burmafrd]

What do you expect from Liberals? Canadian just showed you that here.
It was NOT an accident or in any way innocent. She KNEW exactly what she wanted to say and said it. anyone thinking otherwise knows NOTHING about her. She is Jane Fonda light.

[vta]

In other words: Vote for Hilary because she is a woman.
Don't vote for Obama, because doing so only means you feel guilty for racism.

Don't vote for McCain because he's only lauded as a war hero because he's a man.

You'd think at 73 she'd be a bit more creative at disgiusing her intent in something more palatable for common consumption.

Being tortured for 5 years might not be a qualifier for Presidency, but then, neither is simply having a vagina.

[Doomsday101]

Gloria Steinem should thank those who have sacrificed themselves for this country so her and her cronies could protest the rights of women.

[Danny White]

“I am so grateful that she [Clinton] hasn’t been trained to kill anybody. And she probably didn’t even play war games as a kid. It’s a great relief from Bush in his jump suit and from Kerry saluting.”


The complete and utter loathing of the military comes through so strongly in statements like that.

No one is saying McCain deserves the Presidency simply because he was a POW... although you could argue that he's a person who's been tested under the most trying conditions. Not many people have had their character tested under that kind of strain.



Being tortured for 5 years might not be a qualifier for Presidency, but then, neither is simply having a vagina.

That's pretty funny right there! :laugh2:

[Hostile]

The complete and utter loathing of the military comes through so strongly in statements like that.That statement had me asking "I wonder if Vince Foster would agree?

[Danny White]

That statement had me asking "I wonder if Vince Foster would agree?

Or Bill!

You always hear about Hillary having a nasty temper:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/lamp.asp


:laugh2:

[zrinkill]

From one point of view, I understand what she means.

We all know your opinion of the Military.

[AbeBeta]

The complete and utter loathing of the military comes through so strongly in statements like that.


Actually it is a complete and utter loathing of WAR that comes through in that statement. You can hate war and still respect the military and be thankful for their service.

What Steinem said was stupid - I do agree that being a POW is irrelevant to being President. That would be a relevant critique of someone who had done nothing but be a POW and was now running for pres. But frankly, given JM's experience, the statement is stupid.

I've heard GS speak several times over the past month about Hillary -- often in academic debates with new generation feminists who support Obama. She's been getting trounced in those discussions. GS always looks to make controversial statements like these -- that is effective in pushing an agenda because stating an extreme and polarizing argument can help move compromise toward your own side. However, she's a liability in a political campaign.

[Sasquatch]

Yeah, only liberals and anti-war cooks would dare question the service of a veteran. :rolleyes:

VietnamVeteransAgainstJohnMcCain (http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/)

Obviously, I needn't remind everyone of the 2000 South Carolina primary and the subsequent hatchet job on John Kerry's military record.

It cuts both ways, I'm afraid.

[burmafrd]

Kerry was chopped up deservedly so. McCain has nothing to apologize for.
Sasqie, that was pretty pathetic even for you.

[Sasquatch]

Kerry was chopped up deservedly so.

The bond of brotherhood among those who voluntarily put their lives at stake for the country is only so strong, apparently.

Color me shocked.

[ScipioCowboy]

Gloria Steinem will not help Hillary Clinton. Steinem is a divisive figure whose recent career is predicated on a series of polarizing, incendiary statements. Like a Michael Moore or a Pat Robertson, she'll scare away at least as many people as she brings in.

[Sasquatch]

Gloria Steinem will not help Hillary Clinton. Steinem is a divisive figure whose recent career is predicated on a series of polarizing, incendiary statements. Like a Michael Moore or a Pat Robertson, she'll scare away at least as many people as she brings in.

Trying to mobilize the over 40 white female crowd, no doubt. Not sure it's a formula for success when Hillary herself is perceived as divisive, self-serving, and willing to do or say anything to advance her cause.

[WiPatfan]

What Steinem said was stupid - I do agree that being a POW is irrelevant to being President. That would be a relevant critique of someone who had done nothing but be a POW and was now running for pres. But frankly, given JM's experience, the statement is stupid.

Yep. Agree.

The manner in which John McCain behaved as a POW, I think, does has relevance as to his presidential qualifications. In two ways:

First, he did not relent to torture and did not turn his back on his comrades, which shows an uncommon valor. Valor, honor, commitment and toughness count.

Second, like it or not, the presidency is not just about being qualified, it is also about deserving that honor. Each candidate wants you to think that he or she -- and only he or she -- can lead this country due to some particular talent he or she has. In reality, there are literally hundreds, perhaps thousands, of qualified people who could be effective presidents. A well financed candidate can hire an army of wonks to write policy papers or buy campaign directors to figure out how to woo voters.

The question becomes: Who deserves to be president? Hillary's claim to this argument is celebrity. Obama's claim to this argument is that he has shown an ability to lead and unite. McCain can claim much of the same as the other two, but he also has the fact that he literally suffered for this country. All things being equal, I would like a president who deserves that honor the most, which is clearly, in my mind, John McCain.

(Note: I am still on the fence considering Obama, since his other factors still have an appeal.)


I've heard GS speak several times over the past month about Hillary -- often in academic debates with new generation feminists who support Obama. She's been getting trounced in those discussions. GS always looks to make controversial statements like these -- that is effective in pushing an agenda because stating an extreme and polarizing argument can help move compromise toward your own side. However, she's a liability in a political campaign.

I agree 100%, but we both might be wrong in our assumptions. It might be that Hillary's camp believes that she is dead in the water when it comes to attracting male voters, so having GS around might be a marginalist strategy where as she hopes to bring in a couple thousand hard-core feminists at the expense of a thousand independent men.

Problem is, in the GE, having GS on your side is a bit more problematic.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Gloria Steinem will not help Hillary Clinton. Steinem is a divisive figure whose recent career is predicated on a series of polarizing, incendiary statements. Like a Michael Moore or a Pat Robertson, she'll scare away at least as many people as she brings in.

That's why I said the clinton camp is really desperate. You can bet if Hillary was leading there would be no way in hades they would have GS up there supporting her because they know she would say something controversial that could hurt them.

No...they are on their last legs and trying anything right now.

[AbeBeta]

That's why I said the clinton camp is really desperate. You can bet if Hillary was leading there would be no way in hades they would have GS up there supporting her because they know she would say something controversial that could hurt them.

No...they are on their last legs and trying anything right now.

Actually, Steinem has been active in the Hillary campaign for several months now. In that capacity, she wrote a controversial op-ed piece in the NY Times back in January in support of Hillary.

What we are seeing is not a desperate Hillary bringing in Steinem, it is that Steinem provided a nice sound bite that the media could jump on.

[ConcordCowboy]

Yeah, only liberals and anti-war cooks would dare question the service of a veteran. :rolleyes:

VietnamVeteransAgainstJohnMcCain (http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/)

Obviously, I needn't remind everyone of the 2000 South Carolina primary and the subsequent hatchet job on John Kerry's military record.

It cuts both ways, I'm afraid.

Yeah but don't you remember how the liberal...Military hating...anti-war cooks...ripped Max Cleland too?

The man who literally gave almost half his body for his country!

Oh that wasn't them?

:rolleyes:

In February 2004, "vitriolic right-wing ideologue" Ann Coulter wrote that Cleland should not be referred to as a war hero, as he had lost his limbs in a routine non-combat misssion. Regardless of the exact circumstances of the explosion, or its non-relation to the prior battles for which the stars were given, it is worth noting that Cleland was awarded a Silver Star "for gallantry in action" at the battle of Khe Sanh.

[ConcordCowboy]

The bond of brotherhood among those who voluntarily put their lives at stake for the country is only so strong, apparently.

Color me shocked.

:laugh2: - You

:rolleyes:-Burm

[Jon88]

McCain is going to win. There's not much dirt on him (although some that can be used), but plenty on Obama, and McCain is really going to exploit that.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

McCain is going to win. There's not much dirt on him (although some that can be used), but plenty on Obama, and McCain is really going to exploit that.


you aren't suggesting there be a negative campaign are you?

[burmafrd]

Gee, and what has Hilary and Obama been doing up till now?

[Jon88]

you aren't suggesting there be a negative campaign are you?

Some of it will be. That's how politics works here. I don't know what they do in Canada.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Gee, and what has Hilary and Obama been doing up till now?

and you have decried such tactics as gutter politics. why is it ok for the reactionaries (like the ones you support) to sling mud but not the progressives?

Jon88, politics are the same everywhere. mudslinging works.

[Jarv]

Some of it will be. That's how politics works here. I don't know what they do in Canada.

We all know everyone is a slubbering drunk in Canada, didn't you see that "Brew" movie ? So there is no mudslinging because they all have mud on them to begin with.

J/K...Actually my Grand parents were from Quebec...

[CanadianCowboysFan]

We all know everyone is a slubbering drunk in Canada, didn't you see that "Brew" movie ? So there is no mudslinging because they all have mud on them to begin with.

J/K...Actually my Grand parents were from Quebec...

were they part of the great French Canadian disapora to New England?

[Jon88]

and you have decried such tactics as gutter politics. why is it ok for the reactionaries (like the ones you support) to sling mud but not the progressives?

Jon88, politics are the same everywhere. mudslinging works.


When have I "decried such tactics as gutter politics?"

CanadianCowboysFan, I have never even uttered the phrase "gutter politics" in my life.

[ologan]

were they part of the great French Canadian disapora to New England?

I may be wrong,but I think the word is diaspora. Of course it may be spelled different in Canada.

[Jon88]

I may be wrong,but I think the word is diaspora. Of course it may be spelled different in Canada.

That's how you spell it in Canada.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I may be wrong,but I think the word is diaspora. Of course it may be spelled different in Canada.

never fails to occur that when one criticizes a typo in another's post, one makes one in the criticizing post.

your line should have read "be spelled differentLY in Canada". Different in your sentence was an adverb and should have had "ly" at the end.

88, my comment on reactionaries was directed at Bumfard which I thought was clear.

[theogt]

never fails to occur that when one criticizes a typo in another's post, one makes one in the criticizing post.

your line should have read "be spelled differentLY in Canada". Different in your sentence was an adverb and should have had "ly" at the end.

88, my comment on reactionaries was directed at Bumfard which I thought was clear.Uh, actually it's spelled "bumafarted," as in a homeless dude effluviates.

[burmafrd]

Or as in Oh God Thumbelina.

OGT= can you figure that one out? You like to make it seem you are intelligent.

[jman]

Steinem also told the crowd that one reason to back Clinton was because “she actually enjoys conflict.”

Well, I guess there goes the idea that Hillary can or even wants to pull the country together.

[Danny White]

never fails to occur that when one criticizes a typo in another's post, one makes one in the criticizing post.

That always cracks me up as well.

However there is one addendum to that... if you're going to drop a 50-cent word like diaspora, you should probably make an extra effort to spell it correctly.

:)

[ologan]

never fails to occur that when one criticizes a typo in another's post, one makes one in the criticizing post.

your line should have read "be spelled differentLY in Canada". Different in your sentence was an adverb and should have had "ly" at the end.

88, my comment on reactionaries was directed at Bumfard which I thought was clear.

Never said my grammar was the best in the world...Sorry to offend you!

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/GrammarNazi.jpg

[CanadianCowboysFan]

That always cracks me up as well.

However there is one addendum to that... if you're going to drop a 50-cent word like diaspora, you should probably make an extra effort to spell it correctly.

:)

touche

[vta]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/GrammarNazi.jpg


:lmao: :lmao:

[Danny White]

I'm not a huge John McCain fan, but it's hard to watch something like this and not come away thinking that Gloria Steinem has her head shoved up her arse on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQsckD9trn4&eurl=http://redstate.com/

[WiPatfan]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/GrammarNazi.jpg

:laugh2: I write for a living, and I make plenty of grammar, spelling, word choice and typo mistakes, among other huge errors. I will use this photo against my editor.

Also, do you really think Klink was a NAZI? He seemed to be a reluctant one at best.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

:laugh2: I write for a living, and I make plenty of grammar, spelling, word choice and typo mistakes, among other huge errors. I will use this photo against my editor.

Also, do you really think Klink was a NAZI? He seemed to be a reluctant one at best.

As Hogan said, Klink and his monocle were still fighting WWI.

Ultimate irony of course is that Klink was jewish and he played a German soldier on tv.

[BrAinPaiNt]

:laugh2: I write for a living, and I make plenty of grammar, spelling, word choice and typo mistakes, among other huge errors. I will use this photo against my editor.

Also, do you really think Klink was a NAZI? He seemed to be a reluctant one at best.

Just have always found that pic funny.

As far as Klink being a nazi or not...who knows, it was just a tv show.:D

[WiPatfan]

Just have always found that pic funny.

As far as Klink being a nazi or not...who knows, it was just a tv show.:D

I loved that television show. There is also a pretty disturbing movie, Auto Focus, about how Hogan (Bob Crane) died.

[Chief]

I'm not a huge John McCain fan, but it's hard to watch something like this and not come away thinking that Gloria Steinem has her head shoved up her arse on this one.


That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Discounting the torcher that one of our soldiers endured for years isn't going to help get your candidate get elected, Gloria.

[Chief]

Gloria Steinem should thank those who have sacrificed themselves for this country so her and her cronies could protest the rights of women.

Exactly.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I loved that television show. There is also a pretty disturbing movie, Auto Focus, about how Hogan (Bob Crane) died.

Was it the actress who played Helga or the one who played Helda who had the affair with Bob Crane?

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Of course the problem with the argument that you should just thank the military for allowing you the freedom to criticize them is that in the end, it means you can never criticize the military. It is kind of like the line Jack Nicholson had in A Few Good Men where he told Tom Cruise basically that he and Lt Wineberg should not be questioning how he provides freedom.

Is that the kind of country you want?

[ConcordCowboy]

Was it the actress who played Helga or the one who played Helda who had the affair with Bob Crane?


She played Hilda.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058812/fullcredits#cast


During the second season of Hogan’s Heroes, lovely, blonde, vivacious Patti Olsen, who used the screen name Sigrid Valdis, got a regular part on the program as Col. Klink’s secretary. A romance blossomed between Olsen and Crane that led to the dissolution of Crane’s first marriage. He and Olsen were married on the set of Hogan’s Heroes on October 16, 1970. It was the first real wedding performed on a sound stage.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/bob_crane/1.html

[BrAinPaiNt]

I loved that television show. There is also a pretty disturbing movie, Auto Focus, about how Hogan (Bob Crane) died.

Yes that movie was freaky...that one scene was really disturbing where they are watching movies together and ....um you know.:laugh2: