Favre was a great player but he is no hero

[mr.jameswoods]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.

[Future]

Good post, but...

Most athletes aren't heroes. The media makes them that way. You could say this about hundreds of athletes.

[mr.jameswoods]

Good post, but...

Most athletes aren't heroes. The media makes them that way. You could say this about hundreds of athletes.

I would agree with that but I just find it funny the media and public has decided to make Favre this mythic character and hero when he was just a selfish competitor and great player.

[Q_the_man]

He was a great player and he's retired, can we talk about active players now.......

[TheCount]

I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

A lot of people forget about this. Walker was going into his last year, had put up career numbers the year before and wanted to sign a longer deal so he threatened to hold out.

The mighty Favre went to the media (not Javon personally) and told them Javon should get his butt to camp.

Javon gets mad, but since the mighty Favre has spoken, he showed up to camp and says forget the hold out. He then proceeds to blow out his knee and the Packers, instead of rewarding him for showing up and giving him time to fully heal, ship him to the Broncos.

Where he ends up befriending a guy on the team that winds up dying in his arms after a shooting. Hurts his knee yet again, and gets relegated to 2nd man on the totem pole behind Brandon Marshall.

All because Favre didn't stick by a team mate and say, hey, I want him around. Pay the man. or at least have the decency to keep his mouth shut and let Walker get his money after the guy had signed a 100 million dollar deal himself.

[The Panch]

A lot of people forget about this. Walker was going into his last year, had put up career numbers the year before and wanted to sign a longer deal so he threatened to hold out.

The mighty Favre went to the media (not Javon personally) and told them Javon should get his butt to camp.

Javon gets mad, but since the mighty Favre has spoken, he showed up to camp and says forget the hold out. He then proceeds to blow out his knee and the Packers, instead of rewarding him for showing up and giving him time to fully heal, ship him to the Broncos.

Where he ends up befriending a guy on the team that winds up dying in his arms after a shooting. Hurts his knee yet again, and gets relegated to 2nd man on the totem pole behind Brandon Marshall.

All because Favre didn't stick by a team mate and say, hey, I want him around. Pay the man. or at least have the decency to keep his mouth shut and let Walker get his money after the guy had signed a 100 million dollar deal himself.
I agree. That was selfish. Just like waiting til after the draft to tell the team if you're gonna retire and forcing them to draft a QB(Rodgers). Favre's a top 10 ever, but I personally get sick at all the Favre koolaid the media's been sippin. His style and personality was likeable and his personal issues made you feel for him, but it went overboard too much for my bearing that I stopped watching games when he was on TV. Thankfully, they didnt go to overboard against the Boys cause it seemed like you couldnt watch a game this season without seeing a new record being broken by Favre.




He also kinda dissed his teammates by SOMEWHAT implying they cant win a championship without Moss. Winning 13 games again next year isnt guaranteed(ask the Bears), but to ask for Randy one minute and then retire the next day is a little selfish and disrespectful to his teammates IMO.

[Little Jr]

Well Favre is the best QB I've ever seen play but someone sent me this and thought it was pretty good.

Brett Favre, after living a full life, died. When he got to
heaven, God was showing him around. They came to a modest little house
with a faded Packers' flag in the window.

"This house is yours for eternity, Brett," said God. "This is
very special; not everyone gets a house up here."

Brett felt special, indeed, and walked up to his house.

On his way up the porch, he noticed another house just around the corner.
It was a 3-story mansion with a blue and silver sidewalk, a 50 foot tall
flagpole with an enormous Dallas Cowboys' flag, and in every window a
Cowboys silver star.

Brett looked at God and said, "God, I'm not trying to be
ungrateful, but I have a question. I was an all-pro QB, I won a Super
Bowl, and I even went to the Hall of Fame."

God said, "So what do you want to know, Brett?"

"Well, why does Tony Romo get a better house than me?"

God chuckled and said, "Brett, that's not Tony Romo's house; it's mine."

[The Panch]

I won 2 Super
Bowls,
:confused:

[DaBoys4Life]

Well Favre is the best QB I've ever seen play but someone sent me this and thought it was pretty good.



when did you start watching football ?

I feel the same exact way as the guy who started this thread its a shame how people don't see it that way i would also like to add brett farve's addiction to pain killers and beating his wife

[ROMOSAPIEN9]

I agree to some extent with alot of the points made in this thread about Favre's clandestine selfishness, but here's my thought...

Sure woulda been cool as hell to have had him under center for the Cowboys the past 10 years or so. knowImsayin;)

[Little Jr]

:confused:

I could have swore I changed that. Thats how it was sent to me and I noticed it to. Oh well. It's chaged now.

[Little Jr]

when did you start watching football ?

I feel the same exact way as the guy who started this thread its a shame how people don't see it that way i would also like to add brett farve's addiction to pain killers and beating his wife

I'm 34. I been watching since I can remember. Why you ask?

[ROMOSAPIEN9]

I'm 34. I been watching since I can remember. Why you ask?

The question then becomes.....How long do you remember watching football?

[Little Jr]

The question then becomes.....How long do you remember watching football?

LOL!! I guess I remember since I was about 4 yrs old. I didnt watch it every Sunday. I watch mostly Cowboy and Oiler game since I live in Houston. I started watching every SUnday and really getting into when I was about 16 maybe 17. So roughly since 90. Again what is the point?

[DaBoys4Life]

LOL!! I guess I remember since I was about 4 yrs old. I didnt watch it every Sunday. I watch mostly Cowboy and Oiler game since I live in Houston. I started watching every SUnday and really getting into when I was about 16 maybe 17. So roughly since 90. Again what is the point?

you said brett farve was the greatest QB you ever saw play the game so i figured u hadn't been watching for long .:laugh2:

[Trendnet]

I would have to agree with you...

I thought this article is apt:

Favre From HeavenWHY JOURNALISTS DEIFY THE GREEN BAY PACKERS QUARTERBACK.
By Robert Weintraub
Posted Tuesday, March 4, 2008, at 11:02 AM ET
Brett Favre
On Tuesday morning, Foxsports.com reported that legendary Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre is set to retire from football. In the coming days, scores of writers will no doubt celebrate Favre's on-field heroics and his off-the-field life. Back in 2005, Robert Weintraub explained why the quarterback is the most praised athlete of his generation. The piece is reprinted below.

Brett Favre isn't just a future NFL Hall of Famer. The Green Bay Packers quarterback is also a regular dude. Just ask anybody who writes about Favre or talks about him on television. The Packers play Minnesota in the first round of the playoffs late on Sunday afternoon, a time slot that promises plenty of shots of Favre heroically framed in the rural Wisconsin gloaming while worshipful announcers compose loving odes to his talents as a player, husband, father, and man. It's enough to make you want to root for Randy Moss.
As the disconnect between multimillionaire athletes and ticket-buying fans widens, few players have retained the "jes' folks" status of the Packers star QB. Only a few football players—almost all of them white quarterbacks, from Bobby Layne to Kenny Stabler to Terry Bradshaw—are granted special friend and neighbor status. These are the guys whom you could just as easily envision working at the mill and chopping wood on the front stoop as hurling touchdown passes on Monday Night Football.

Because he's just a regular dude, Favre is one of us even when he screws up. Favre received almost no criticism last January when his boneheaded overtime heave cost the Packers last year's divisional playoff against Philadelphia. In this year's rematch, the Eagles demolished the Pack by 30 points, in no small part due to Favre's poor play. After the game, ESPN.com's Michael Smith wrote that the "impossible happened Sunday. My opinion of Favre grew." What towering feat did Favre accomplish? He showed his disdain for personal statistics by pulling himself out of the game when the Pack were losing 47-3 even though his 36-game touchdown streak was at stake. Keep in mind, this is the same guy who went into the fetal position to allow Michael Strahan to break the single-season sack record.
Sports Illustrated's Peter King is probably the quarterback's most eager lap dog and the writer most responsible for celebrating Favre's rural lifestyle. "On the morning he had to leave his beloved home and 465 acres in Hattiesburg, Miss., to report to training camp, he began to think this might be his last camp," King wrote in January 2003. "A private plane stood by at a nearby airstrip for the two-and-half-hour flight to Green Bay. … And there he was, sweating a stream while edging a mile of his property where it meets the road, refusing to leave till he finished the job." In short, Favre is the guy next door—I bet that private jet is up on blocks in his front yard.
To King's credit, he's conscious of his reputation as Favre's Boswell. "Oh no! King on Favre again!" he wrote in the same article. "King's all over this guy! Please, just one column without mentioning Favre's name! And we beg you: Don't tell us what entree you had with him! Sickening!" (The italics are not mine.) That self-awareness didn't stop King from contributing a chapter to Favre, the just-released memoir that No. 4 co-wrote with his mother, Bonita. As Favre's tome shot to the top of the bestseller lists, Terrell Owens' autobiography, Catch This!, failed to find an audience.
Favre and Owens make for an intriguing contrast. If you've watched even a single Green Bay game in the last few seasons, you've heard the misfortune that has befallen the quarterback recently: the death of his father, the death of his brother-in-law, his wife's cancer diagnosis. This year's Monday Night Football opener featured a halftime retrospective on Favre's relationship with his father, complete with home movies showing a mop-topped Brett in shoulder pads and Irvin Favre looking on approvingly from his easy chair. Another Monday night game earlier this year that unfortunately coincided with his wife's battle with cancer occasioned a sit-down with ESPN's Suzy Kolber that included such hard-hitting queries as "Where would you be without her?" and "How would you compare your toughness to your wife Deanna's toughness?"
While Favre is lionized for playing through tragedy, Terrell Owens' success has never been given the same kind of context. As Catch This! reveals, the fact that T.O. made it to the NFL is a miracle. Owens, who grew up destitute and fatherless in backwater Alabama, wasn't allowed to leave his front yard as a child for fear of getting whipped. Favre grew up in small town bliss surrounded by his loving family. Not to demean the loss of loved ones, but who has overcome more here? Why is every hurdle Favre has jumped over presented as the Pillars of Hercules, while a guy like Owens is dismissed as a loudmouth?
No one doubts Favre's Hall of Fame credentials—three MVP awards, a Super Bowl ring, 200-plus consecutive starts, and an ability to laser the ball between defenders even at age 35. On the other hand, it's fairly obvious that Favre has been propped up these past few years by his All-Pro running back, Ahman Green. Here's a guy who plays hurt and plays well, hails from a red state, and is by all accounts a solid citizen who runs youth football camps in his hometown. Yet Ahman gets props only for his yards—I have no clue what tragedies he's had to overcome. I guess he's just not a regular dude.

[jman]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.

Yeah, okay what's your point?

If I was 12 (and a Packer fan) I would be crushed he retired...He probably would have be my hero. And frankly that's what all sports hero's are or should be. Hero's in the hearts and minds of kids. None of what you said would make a hill of beans difference to me.

Now, being a 41 year old man, well, it still doesn't mean squat. Sports is a business and how, when and why he chose now to retire is up to him alone. You think he was selfish, I just enjoyed watching him play. I'm a football fan and he was a great football player.

And by the way, take the money out of the game and lets see who would really play for free.

[CrazyCowboy]

sometimes we put these players on too high of a mountain top

[Little Jr]

beating his wife

LOL!! What, you just make stuff up about him now?

[Hostile]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.Clarification, he's not a hero to you. Who are you to say he's can't be a hero to a kid in Wisconsin or Mississippi? For that matter who are you to say he can't be a hero to a kid in Minnesota, Illinois, or Michigan, the homes of his biggest rivals? I think it's entirely possible that his personality is what makes him a hero to some of the people who do see him as a hero. Sort of the same way I see Roger Staubach as a hero. A hero is anyone whom you look up to, who inspires you. I see no reason why anyone should say Favre is not a hero, and think that because they say so, that is that. Even if I didn't put a premium on competitiveness I could see why Favre could be someone's hero.

[tyke1doe]

A person doesn't have to be flawless to be a hero. In fact, that's what makes heroes inspirational to many, the fact that despite flaws, he still rose to greatness and inspired people.

All human heroes are flawed. And guess what? You are too.

So just take a number, join the crowd and get busy being a hero to somebody, and let your critics worry about whether you're worthy of being a "hero." ;)

[Doomsday101]

Good post, but...

Most athletes aren't heroes. The media makes them that way. You could say this about hundreds of athletes.

Fans do as well. Roger Staubach was considered a hero by many Cowboy fans. Right or wrong

[Sam I Am]

A man is a man. Why people feel the need to publically bash someone I don't know. Farve was a great QB. That is what he was. Was he a perfect QB? No. Was he a perfect human being? No. Are you? I seriously doubt it.

You want to judge someone. Vote in the next election. Let the man stand on his own merit. He owns tons of NFL records and he has a Superbowl ring. I don't care if he played 35 years in the NFL to get it. If you got the record, damnit you earned it.

You don't consider him a hero, fine. Thats your choice. Heros are in the eye of the beholder. I don't consider any player in the NFL a hero because of what he did on the field. It takes a little bit more than that for me.

On a last note, Farve was still one of the best QBs in the league last year. Considering that fact and the fact that he had a goal to break a few records. How does that make him selfish? He took the Packers to a 13-3 record and got them to the NFC Championship game. How was he being selfish? Did he want the record? Yes, Was him going after it hurting the team as a whole? No. Nothing selfish about it.

[Doomsday101]

A man is a man. Why people feel the need to publically bash someone I don't know. Farve was a great QB. That is what he was. Was he a perfect QB? No. Was he a perfect human being? No. Are you? I seriously doubt it.

You want to judge someone. Vote in the next election. Let the man stand on his own merit. He owns tons of NFL records and he has a Superbowl ring. I don't care if he played 35 years in the NFL to get it. If you got the record, damnit you earned it.

You don't consider him a hero, fine. Thats your choice. Heros are in the eye of the beholder. I don't consider any player in the NFL a hero because of what he did on the field. It takes a little bit more than that for me.

On a last note, Farve was still one of the best QBs in the league last year. Considering that fact and the fact that he had a goal to break a few records. How does that make him selfish? He took the Packers to a 13-3 record and got them to the NFC Championship game. How was he being selfish? Did he want the record? Yes, Was him going after it hurting the team as a whole? No. Nothing selfish about it.

I agree. I don't think of players as hero but I respect what Brett has done and even more amazing is how many game he played without missing a start.

[iceberg]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.

i suppose it depends on what you need in a hero. there's a reason we've got so many of them around it seems.

[BraveHeartFan]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.

Oh yeah. What a terrible dude. How DARE he want to accomplish those individual records.

I guess Emmitt Smith was probably a selfish dude who was holding those really crappy Cowboys teams back by continuing to play so he could break Walters record.

How dare them!

Pfft.

[BraveHeartFan]

Clarification, he's not a hero to you. Who are you to say he's can't be a hero to a kid in Wisconsin or Mississippi? For that matter who are you to say he can't be a hero to a kid in Minnesota, Illinois, or Michigan, the homes of his biggest rivals? I think it's entirely possible that his personality is what makes him a hero to some of the people who do see him as a hero. Sort of the same way I see Roger Staubach as a hero. A hero is anyone whom you look up to, who inspires you. I see no reason why anyone should say Favre is not a hero, and think that because they say so, that is that. Even if I didn't put a premium on competitiveness I could see why Favre could be someone's hero.


Exactly. Nicely done.

[BraveHeartFan]

Yeah, okay what's your point?

If I was 12 (and a Packer fan) I would be crushed he retired...He probably would have be my hero. And frankly that's what all sports hero's are or should be. Hero's in the hearts and minds of kids. None of what you said would make a hill of beans difference to me.

Now, being a 41 year old man, well, it still doesn't mean squat. Sports is a business and how, when and why he chose now to retire is up to him alone. You think he was selfish, I just enjoyed watching him play. I'm a football fan and he was a great football player.

And by the way, take the money out of the game and lets see who would really play for free.

It's kinda funny you mention the 12 year old kid angle. My son is only 6. This last football season was the first one that he actually heavily got into (As much as a 6 year old can and can understand anyway) and watched games with me almost every sunday. He LOVES the Packers. They're his favorite team and he just thought Brett was the be all end all of QBs.

He actually cried yesturday afternoon when he saw the news report that Favre was retiring. It might seem silly to the adults here but I thought it was cool and I couldn't help but feel like I shared a pretty special moment with my little boy yesturday during that.

Brett was my sons football hero.

[TheCount]

i suppose it depends on what you need in a hero. there's a reason we've got so many of them around it seems.

I was raised not to look at sports figures as heroes. There are too many true heroes in the world to get caught up in idolizing someone for what they do on a court or field.

While I certainly consider Favre a sports legend, I'd never call him or any athlete a hero.

[superpunk]

On a last note, Farve was still one of the best QBs in the league last year. Considering that fact and the fact that he had a goal to break a few records. How does that make him selfish? He took the Packers to a 13-3 record and got them to the NFC Championship game. How was he being selfish? Did he want the record? Yes, Was him going after it hurting the team as a whole? No. Nothing selfish about it.

When you factor in how his annual no-decision must have affected the Packers, and how unbelievably terrible he was in the two seasons preceding this one, I think you can pretty easily say that he was at least being a little selfish hanging on that long, with the team not having the balls to part ways with him.

[Sam I Am]

When you factor in how his annual no-decision must have affected the Packers, and how unbelievably terrible he was in the two seasons preceding this one, I think you can pretty easily say that he was at least being a little selfish hanging on that long, with the team not having the balls to part ways with him.

I disagree to a point. Football is a team game and the talent level of the Packers wasn't quite what it is today.

Even Joe Montana, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, etc wouldn't have performed very well on the '89 Cowboys.

Farve played at almost the same level as Romo did last year. An over-the-hill QB that has no business in the game wouldn't have done that. Lets not blanket the blame of the prior bad years in Green Bay as Farve's fault.

[superpunk]

I disagree to a point. Football is a team game and the talent level of the Packers wasn't quite what it is today.

Even Joe Montana, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, etc wouldn't have performed very well on the '89 Cowboys.

Farve played at almost the same level as Romo did last year. An over-the-hill QB that has no business in the game wouldn't have done that. Lets not blanket the blame of the prior bad years in Green Bay as Farve's fault.

Why would we? His mid-6 ypa and 47 interceptions couldn't have had much to do with the atrocity in Green Bay for those two years. :rolleyes:

He hung on, even when he was awful, in a pretty transparent attempt to reach certain records. Which is his choice, and right. But that doesn't make it less selfish.

[iceberg]

I was raised not to look at sports figures as heroes. There are too many true heroes in the world to get caught up in idolizing someone for what they do on a court or field.

While I certainly consider Favre a sports legend, I'd never call him or any athlete a hero.

great. but that's you. what if someone *was* raised on sports and athletics and chose that road? it's not just favre playing a game that should disqualify him from being a "hero" but he's also faced adversity in his chosen profession, self-induced or not *and* pulled himself out and kept a very illustrious career alive and well.

if your goal is to play in the NFL, a great hero.
if your goal is to be the first man on mars, then maybe you can find others.

but a hero is an inspiration to get us through our own lives for our own reasons. "real" is just a way for people to say "my hero is better than your hero" and get caught up into can hulk beat up superman convos or would the silver surfer wipe them both out?

SHA-ZAM!

like i said, a lot of 'em out there for a reason.

[TheCount]

great. but that's you. what if someone *was* raised on sports and athletics and chose that road? it's not just favre playing a game that should disqualify him from being a "hero" but he's also faced adversity in his chosen profession, self-induced or not *and* pulled himself out and kept a very illustrious career alive and well.

if your goal is to play in the NFL, a great hero.
if your goal is to be the first man on mars, then maybe you can find others.

but a hero is an inspiration to get us through our own lives for our own reasons. "real" is just a way for people to say "my hero is better than your hero" and get caught up into can hulk beat up superman convos or would the silver surfer wipe them both out?

SHA-ZAM!

like i said, a lot of 'em out there for a reason.

I idolized a lot of basketball players, especially Jordan, like everyone else. I spent hours on a court trying to emulate him, and a couple of other guys growing up.

But even then, I would have considered my father more of a hero than Michael. Which was lucky for me so when things came out about his personal life, I wasn't heart broken. Same thing with Kobe and Jason Kidd, two other players I loved as a kid. (Still like all three, actually)

It's not a matter of saying my hero is better. I'm trying to explain why some people don't see Favre as a hero to those that find it incredulous that someone would suggest he's not.

[iceberg]

I idolized a lot of basketball players, especially Jordan, like everyone else. I spent hours on a court trying to emulate him, and a couple of other guys growing up.

But even then, I would have considered my father more of a hero than Michael. Which was lucky for me so when things came out about his personal life, I wasn't heart broken. Same thing with Kobe and Jason Kidd, two other players I loved as a kid. (Still like all three, actually)

It's not a matter of saying my hero is better. I'm trying to explain why some people don't see Favre as a hero to those that find it incredulous that someone would suggest he's not.

gotcha. i would agree that in time (sometimes sooner than others) we gravitate to better / more realistic heros but that usually takes experience. unfortunately that experience is often wrapped up in a young persons dis-illusionment of the system and the person they put on that pedastal who turned out in the end to be a person.

[BraveHeartFan]

Dennis Byrd is one of my heros. That is all.

[FloridaRob]

...He hung on, even when he was awful, in a pretty transparent attempt to reach certain records. Which is his choice, and right. But that doesn't make it less selfish.

that is just your opinion and you are surely in the minority even as transparent as you think that it is. I guess the fact that he loved the game more than anything and was so competive that he just wanted to play is something that escapes you. The only record that meant anything to FAvre was the consecutive game streak and he passed that about 10 yrs ago. I know it is hard to believe ballplayers when they say something but there is one thing that FAvre has never been questioned on and that is his honesty. He has been honest to the media almost to a fault and time and time again, he has said the passing records are not what drives him, winning, the love of the game and competing is. But for the FAvre bashers they will always spin something that wasn't. It helps their argument no matter how inaccurate it is. And to do that you have to call FAvre a liar and a fake, two adjectives that have NEVER been assigned to him, except by those that really don't like him.

[superpunk]

that is just your opinion and you are surely in the minority even as transparent as you think that it is. I guess the fact that he loved the game more than anything and was so competive that he just wanted to play is something that escapes you. The only record that meant anything to FAvre was the consecutive game streak and he passed that about 10 yrs ago. I know it is hard to believe ballplayers when they say something but there is one thing that FAvre has never been questioned on and that is his honesty. He has been honest to the media almost to a fault and time and time again, he has said the passing records are not what drives him, winning, the love of the game and competing is. But for the FAvre bashers they will always spin something that wasn't. It helps their argument no matter how inaccurate it is. And to do that you have to call FAvre a liar and a fake, two adjectives that have NEVER been assigned to him, except by those that really don't like him.

You can be as naive as you want to be.

Just don't expect the rest of the world to believe it.

[FloridaRob]

You can be as naive as you want to be.

Just don't expect the rest of the world to believe it.

I don't need the rest of the world to believe. ONly you and a few others believe what you wrote. he played for the love of the game. He played for the competition. Nobody but the people that don't like him spin it the way you see it. Just because you believe it does not make it true. If it was as transparent as you said, then many in the media would have picked up on it. Still waiting to see it.

So you must believe that FAvre is a liar and a fake. Is that your belief?

[superpunk]

I don't need the rest of the world to believe. ONly you and a few others believe what you wrote. he played for the love of the game. He played for the competition. Nobody but the people that don't like him spin it the way you see it. Just because you believe it does not make it true. If it was as transparent as you said, then many in the media would have picked up on it. Still waiting to see it.

So you must believe that FAvre is a liar and a fake. Is that your belief?

Please. Favre could say he played for the love of Xenu, and the media would think it was great. They've been bowing to Favre for years.

He came back year after year for the records. The love of the game would have motivated him to come back on a playoff team this season, when he trudged his way through his and the Packers suckiness for 2 years and 47 interceptions.

Be as naive as you want to be. You know why he came back over and over, and you know why he retired. He got the records he was after. It was for selfish reasons. That's not a knock on him, he's earned the right to be as selfish as he wants to be, and the Packers certainly never had the stones to stand up to him, since he was bigger than the team. I don't think it's a knock against him, nor do I see the need to saint him with "he just kept playing for love of the game, the records didn't matter". Stow it. That's nonsense, and you know it, whether your Brett Favre man love will allow you to admit it or not.

[Hostile]

I don't need the rest of the world to believe. ONly you and a few others believe what you wrote. he played for the love of the game. He played for the competition. Nobody but the people that don't like him spin it the way you see it. Just because you believe it does not make it true. If it was as transparent as you said, then many in the media would have picked up on it. Still waiting to see it.

So you must believe that FAvre is a liar and a fake. Is that your belief?I get a kick out of questions like that. They are self defeating.

If that is his belief or opinion what could you possibly respond with that he is going to acknowledge? It's like asking someone if they like Coke or Pepsi and then telling them why what they prefer is wrong.

[FloridaRob]

Please. Favre could say he played for the love of Xenu, and the media would think it was great. They've been bowing to Favre for years.

He came back year after year for the records. The love of the game would have motivated him to come back on a playoff team this season, when he trudged his way through his and the Packers suckiness for 2 years and 47 interceptions.

Be as naive as you want to be. You know why he came back over and over, and you know why he retired. He got the records he was after. It was for selfish reasons. That's not a knock on him, he's earned the right to be as selfish as he wants to be, and the Packers certainly never had the stones to stand up to him, since he was bigger than the team. I don't think it's a knock against him, nor do I see the need to saint him with "he just kept playing for love of the game, the records didn't matter". Stow it. That's nonsense, and you know it, whether your Brett Favre man love will allow you to admit it or not.

Again, to believe what you do means that FAvre is a liar and a fake because that is completely different that what he has said, what anybody that knows him has said, and anybody that has covered him has said. Go ahead and admit you believe that. That at least will excuse your ignorance.

[superpunk]

I get a kick out of questions like that. They are self defeating.

If that is his belief or opinion what could you possibly respond with that he is going to acknowledge? It's like asking someone if they like Coke or Pepsi and then telling them why what they prefer is wrong.

It's not a coincidence that such nonsense went completely ignored in my response. :cool:

[FloridaRob]

I get a kick out of questions like that. They are self defeating.

If that is his belief or opinion what could you possibly respond with that he is going to acknowledge? It's like asking someone if they like Coke or Pepsi and then telling them why what they prefer is wrong.

not really. if he says that he believe he is lying, then I just ignore him. Can't argue with ignorance.....

[superpunk]

Again, to believe what you do means that FAvre is a liar and a fake because that is completely different that what he has said, what anybody that knows him has said, and anybody that has covered him has said. Go ahead and admit you believe that. That at least will excuse your ignorance.

I believe that Favre knows what people want to hear. Favre knows how to play the media, Favre knows how to play the fans. He knows that "I just love the game, I can't leave it yet" will be better received than "I'd like to stick around, set some records and cement my legacy." I'm sure he does love the game - you couldn't play for that long if you didn't. But the notion that this was his only motivation, and he was completely unmotivated by the pursuit of records, and it was merely coincidence that he retired after attaining said records, is completely naive. I'm not a child, I don't buy that Pollyanna stuff.

[FloridaRob]

I believe that Favre knows what people want to hear. Favre knows how to play the media, Favre knows how to play the fans. He knows that "I just love the game, I can't leave it yet" will be better received than "I'd like to stick around, set some records and cement my legacy." I'm sure he does love the game - you couldn't play for that long if you didn't. But the notion that this was his only motivation, and he was completely unmotivated by the pursuit of records, and it was merely coincidence that he retired after attaining said records, is completely naive. I'm not a child, I don't buy that Pollyanna stuff.

ok, you believe he is a liar and a fake. Nothing else to say here. And I am sure the color of his jersey has everything to do with your opinion. If he had a blue star on his helment, you would have a "pollyanna" belief in such nonsense.

[WarC]

Since when did selfishly driving for goals and championships become a negative? To claim that Favre is less of a "hero" because he was aware of and possibly strode for the records he ended up beating is to put a preconceived, entirely personal moral judgement on not only HIS accomplishments but those of ALL NFL players. To put such a limitation on Favre's work is to imply that somewhere out there in the Twilight Zone is a player who never, ever thinks about or drives for good stats. That player, my friends, does not exist in the NFL - That player never left the highschool practice squad.

[khiladi]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.

You can still love to play the game and want passing records...

They don't have to be mutually exclusive....

[WarC]

I've decided that Alexander the Great is not great - For his conquests were the result of his own selfishness and vanity, in the purposeful expansion of his kingdom!

[superpunk]

ok, you believe he is a liar and a fake. Nothing else to say here. And I am sure the color of his jersey has everything to do with your opinion. If he had a blue star on his helment, you would have a "pollyanna" belief in such nonsense.

I believe Emmitt did the same thing. So much for your theory.

Favre knows what the fans want to hear. He knows what FloridaRob wants to hear so he can continue his idolization and keep Favre on demi-god status, a true warrior who was completely unselfish and childlike in his approach to the game. And continuing to feed that perception makes him a very smart man, not a liar or a fake. He loved the game, no doubt. But it's extremely naive to believe that was his only motivation, everything considered. I understand why you want to do it, to maintain that perception and keep him on a lofty pedestal.

Just don't expect the rest of us to join in your dreamworld.

You can still love to play the game and want passing records...

They don't have to be mutually exclusive....

Well put.

[khiladi]

I've decided that Alexander the Great is not great - For his conquests were the result of his own selfishness and vanity, in the purposeful expansion of his kingdom!

Actually, he was pretty over-rated. He won one real battle, and the rest were petty skirmishes against nomadic tribes.

When he set foot in India, his army got whalloped, and he had to return home with a bunch of malcontents, who were wondering what the hell was the objective of the 'conquests' in the first place.

[FloridaRob]

...
Just don't expect the rest of us to join in your dreamworld.



...

apparently you are one of only a few that have the "real view" of things. Excuse me if I would rather defer to the people that know him best, played with him, practiced with him, know him personally, privatetly and professionaly, interviewed him hundreds of times and share a completely different view of the man than you do. But you know he is a liar and a fake. INcredible....

[superpunk]

apparently you are one of only a few that have the "real view" of things. Excuse me if I would rather defer to the people that know him best, played with him, practiced with him, know him personally, privatetly and professionaly, interviewed him hundreds of times and share a completely different view of the man than you do. But you know he is a liar and a fake. INcredible....
If you want to keep perpetuating this nonsense, go ahead. I never said he was a liar, or a fake. He obviously loves the game. He also knows what people want to hear. You know why this decision came finally after this year, when his team has so much talent and you would think if it really was just about love of the game, he'd be happy to come back and go for that Lombardi. But he didn't. So what changed? What made him decide not ot come back to a team like that, when he had come back to throw to guys named Taco in years past?

He got the records. He accomplished what he wanted to.

Good for him.

[Hostile]

not really. if he says that he believe he is lying, then I just ignore him. Can't argue with ignorance.....This response was fine in principle, however in practice it hasn't worked too well.

:p:

[FloridaRob]

If you want to keep perpetuating this nonsense, go ahead. I never said he was a liar, or a fake. He obviously loves the game. He also knows what people want to hear. You know why this decision came finally after this year, when his team has so much talent and you would think if it really was just about love of the game, he'd be happy to come back and go for that Lombardi. But he didn't. So what changed? What made him decide not ot come back to a team like that, when he had come back to throw to guys named Taco in years past?

He got the records. He accomplished what he wanted to.

Good for him.

He came back in years past because he wasn't ready to quit. He still wanted to compete. He could still play at a high level and anybody watching him knew that. He played bad for two years and wasn't ready to go out on that low. He still believe he could play well, the management for the Packers believed he could play well, and while the media was saying he should quit because he sucked, he proved them wrong by playing well.

He didn't owe the Packers anything to come back for next year and play for a championship. He has played 17 yrs and always left it all on the field. He should have been selfish about coming back. The only thing that should have mattered to him was how he felt and what his family wanted. He decided mentally he could not commit to another year. It isnt a big leap to know he is telling the truth about that. he still had a record out there he could probably get. he is about 20 games short of the consecutive game streak of all time. I guess he forgot to consider that one when he was considering coming back or not.

[FloridaRob]

This response was fine in principle, however in practice it hasn't worked too well.

:p:

he won't admit it. ;)

[Sam I Am]

Why would we? His mid-6 ypa and 47 interceptions couldn't have had much to do with the atrocity in Green Bay for those two years. :rolleyes:

He hung on, even when he was awful, in a pretty transparent attempt to reach certain records. Which is his choice, and right. But that doesn't make it less selfish.

He was trying to force plays because he didn't have the personal to do it.

What does his 7.8avg, 259.7ypg, 28TDs to 15INT, 4100+ yards, and 95.7 rating this year tell you? What it tells me is he still has *IT*. If you still have IT and still have the desire to play, whats wrong with playing?

As I noted, football is a team game. Farve has always been a feast or famine type QB. He never threw 1 INT, he almost always threw none or 3+ in a game.

Point is; If he couldn't do it anymore, he wouldn't have done what he did this year. Well, he did it, and was one of the best QBs in the league this year.

I don't see how an Pro Bower who was selected All-Pro second team and took his team to the NFC Championship game and had almost 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio is selfish by still playing the game. :confused:

[superpunk]

He was trying to force plays because he didn't have the personal to do it.

What does his 7.8avg, 259.7ypg, 28TDs to 15INT, 4100+ yards, and 95.7 rating this year tell you? What it tells me is he still has *IT*. If you still have IT and still have the desire to play, whats wrong with playing?

As I noted, football is a team game. Farve has always been a feast or famine type QB. He never threw 1 INT, he almost always threw none or 3+ in a game.

Point is; If he couldn't do it anymore, he wouldn't have done what he did this year. Well, he did it, and was one of the best QBs in the league this year.

I don't see how an Pro Bower who was selected All-Pro second team and took his team to the NFC Championship game and had almost 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio is selfish by still playing the game. :confused:

He had a renaissance, and noone could tell him to quit. But it wasn't exactly being self-sacrificing going out there and sucking a few years in a row to hang on and accumulate some records. Selfishness is not derogatory, so quit painting it as such. He selfishly came back to get some records, then he quit when they'd been attained and his legacy enhanced. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nor does that mean he didn't love the game.

[gbrittain]

Wow...I think there are a lot of Brett Favre mind readers on the board.

He is human. A pretty darn good QB, but not the best ever. I do not know why Brett Favre chose this year to retire, but evidently some of you have direct access to Brett's mind.

I am going to take it for what it is. A great football player who is calling it quits. I do not feel the need to idolize, nor the need to minimize his career.

[Sam I Am]

He had a renaissance, and noone could tell him to quit. But it wasn't exactly being self-sacrificing going out there and sucking a few years in a row to hang on and accumulate some records. Selfishness is not derogatory, so quit painting it as such. He selfishly came back to get some records, then he quit when they'd been attained and his legacy enhanced. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nor does that mean he didn't love the game.

Wow, you have some hate built up for Farve. Farve was and still is a better QB than most of the QB this league has to offer. If he wants to play, let him play. If he was a FA and still wanted to play, way more than half the NFL teams would be trying to buying the Farve groceries.

Personally, he isn't the person I would want to build my franchise around. Why, because as I said before. He is a feast or famine QB. I prefer consistency from my QB. That is something he never had a whole lot of.

It's also one trait I've see more than I like from Romo. Something I hope he grows out of.

[superpunk]

Wow, you have some hate built up for Farve.

If you say it enough, does it make it true?

"Oh no...someone's not deep-throating Favre's career, and his decision to go out on top, go out on his terms. Someone dares to say Favre might have been motivated to hang on even though he was hurting his team by selfish motives! How can we deal with this? I know, let's call him a hater!"

Whatever. Suck away.

[FloridaRob]

If you say it enough, does it make it true?

"Oh no...someone's not deep-throating Favre's career, and his decision to go out on top, go out on his terms. Someone dares to say Favre might have been motivated to hang on even though he was hurting his team by selfish motives! How can we deal with this? I know, let's call him a hater!"

Whatever. Suck away.

You are the one saying his motives were transparent and that anybody that believes otherwise is naive. I guess you are the one driving the short bus....

[superpunk]

You are the one saying his motives were transparent and that anybody that believes otherwise is naive. I guess you are the one driving the short bus....

Yes. If you believe he wasn't motivated at all by the pursuit of records and furthering his legacy, and that it was just coincidence that once he accomplished this, even though his team is poised to make a run, he called it quits, then I'd have to say you're extremely naive. Saint Favre could never be motivated by such worldly interests.

[Joe Rod]

Leave Brett Favre Alone!

http://www.adrants.com/images/leave_britney_alone.jpg

[superpunk]

Leave Brett Favre Alone!

http://www.adrants.com/images/leave_britney_alone.jpg

Done.

There's no room for reason when Brett Favre is tugging at the heart strings.

Out.

[Sam I Am]

If you say it enough, does it make it true?

"Oh no...someone's not deep-throating Favre's career, and his decision to go out on top, go out on his terms. Someone dares to say Favre might have been motivated to hang on even though he was hurting his team by selfish motives! How can we deal with this? I know, let's call him a hater!"

Whatever. Suck away.

If Farve listens to Hostile, he is in full embrace mode right about now. ;) :laugh2:


(((((((superpunk hates Farve)))))))
((((((superpunk hates Farve))))))
(((((superpunk hates Farve)))))
((((superpunk hates Farve))))
(((superpunk hates Farve)))
((superpunk hates Farve))
+-(superpunk hates Farve)-+
((superpunk hates Farve))
(((superpunk hates Farve)))
((((superpunk hates Farve))))
(((((superpunk hates Farve)))))
((((((superpunk hates Farve))))))
(((((((superpunk hates Farve)))))))
:laugh2:

[WarC]

Actually, he was pretty over-rated. He won one real battle, and the rest were petty skirmishes against nomadic tribes.

Over-rated by whose estimation? The one battle you speak of is probably Issus, against Darius II of Persia. Yet he also successfully fought large-scale battles at Granicus and Gaugemela, as well as prominent sieges of Halicarnassus, Gaza, Tyre, and Persepolis.

He unified all of Greece under Macedonia, then proceeded to conquer all or parts of Gaza, Syria, Bactria, Mesopotamia, Judea, and Egypt.

As a direct result of his conquests and death, Greek descendents would rule Egypt as the Ptolemic Pharaohs...As well as spawning the Greek-ruled Seleucid and Antigonid empires. Alexander is basically responsible for most of the Hellenistic Greek tradition which serves as a cultural cornerstone for western civilization.

It wasn't until the rise of the Roman Empire that another group of people would rule over so much landmass and population.

[tyke1doe]

Wow...I think there are a lot of Brett Favre mind readers on the board.

He is human. A pretty darn good QB, but not the best ever. I do not know why Brett Favre chose this year to retire, but evidently some of you have direct access to Brett's mind.

I am going to take it for what it is. A great football player who is calling it quits. I do not feel the need to idolize, nor the need to minimize his career.

You are not following the script.

You MUST embrace the HATE.

It is your ... density. ;) :D

[gbrittain]

You are not following the script.

You MUST embrace the HATE.

It is your ... density. ;) :D


:lmao2:


I know, at times I think there is only room for hate.

[skinsscalper]

One could argue that Favre is the greatest QB of all time. When Favre was at his prime, I thought he was the best ever because he could improvise, run, stand in the pocket and just single-handedly take over games.

What bothers me about Favre is this hero worship he gets. Favre called Randy Moss and asked him to join the Packers. When Moss refused, Favre decided to retire because he knew he couldn't win a championship. The media likes to suggest that Favre played these last 3 years because he has this "child-like" enthusiasm about the game. Give me a break, he kept playing because he wanted to surpass the passing records. Funny that Favre decides to retire now after he has already surpassed the passing records despite his team being more competitive than ever. If it was his love for the game and his "childlike enthusiasm" for the game, he would have kept playing. I also like how he asked former WR Javon Walker to show up in camp when he was holding out. Yes, that sounds like a great teammate to me.

I just think it's funny how Favre was praised for being a competitor and loving the game when he was just being selfish and trying to surpass Marino's records at his teams' expense. Yes, he had several lackluster seasons but he didn't care about his teams' fate because he wanted to play and break Marino's records. When he finally played well and helped his team compete, he decides to quit...gee, I wonder why?

I'm going to remember Favre as a great competitor and one of the best QB's of all time. However, he is not a hero in my opinion. He is not this selfless person who put his team above himself. Sorry, Favre was just another selfish competitor who looked out for himself but was treated like a hero because of his personality.

I don't understand what his motivations to play have to do with anything. Players play the game for a variety of reasons. Money, fame, an opportunity to break a cycle of poverty, personal accolades, etc. What does that have to do with Favre's contribution to the game, the league, or Green Bay.

I could care less why Favre played the game. I enjoyed HOW he played the game. Especially as a fan without any emotional investment on the outcome of the score (except for the handful of times he played Dallas). You never knew what you were going to see. A hero? A goat? An amazing completion? A bonehead INT? He was fun to watch. How could you NOT crack a smile when you saw him get up after being sacked and head butt Sapp and talk ****. That's fan stuff, right there. How could you NOT like a guy who played like that? A smile on his face the whole time.


Most of us watched this guy grow up in front of us. A wild kid that liked his beer (and almost lost his wife as a result), to a young man addicted to pain killers, to a husband that tried to help his wife through cancer, to a guy that played on Monday Night the day after his father died. You could see in his eyes that he'd spent the previous 24 hours crying his eyes out. It was tough for ME to hold the tears back when he played that game and played so well (and frankly I could care less about the Packers). In pure Favre fashion. Half of those TDs should have been incomplete or intercepted. Yet he gambled (as usual) and it paid off. It's the HUMAN things about Favre that are admirable. He ISN'T perfect. He is a lot like a lot of us.

The league is better for having a Brett Favre. I'm a more fortunate fan for getting to watch the guy play. No spin. No BS. Just that simple.

So long #4. It's been a blast.

[Muhast]

why are we 5 threads now on a FORMER, NON COWBOYS player?

[mr.jameswoods]

I feel vindicated. Brett Favre, selfishly puts his own needs above his teams. He quits last year out of frustration becaue the Pack doesn't go after Randy Moss. Now, he asks to be released so he can play for another team who has a better shot at a championship. I wouldn't be suprised if Favre goes to an NFL central team or another rival. Like I said, he is arguably the greatest QB of all time but he is no hero. Again, I'm not attacking Favre. He is human and one of the better human beings in the game. I'm attacking the media and the misguided Favre fans like FloridaRob who want to deify him. Get a grip guys. Favre is as human as anyone else and he is going to do things that benefit him...just like all professional athletes have done including Emmitt Smith.

[FloridaRob]

I feel vindicated. Brett Favre, selfishly puts his own needs above his teams. He quits last year out of frustration becaue the Pack doesn't go after Randy Moss. Now, he asks to be released so he can play for another team who has a better shot at a championship. I wouldn't be suprised if Favre goes to an NFL central team or another rival. Like I said, he is arguably the greatest QB of all time but he is no hero. Again, I'm not attacking Favre. He is human and one of the better human beings in the game. I'm attacking the media and the misguided Favre fans like FloridaRob who want to deify him. Get a grip guys. Favre is as human as anyone else and he is going to do things that benefit him...just like all professional athletes have done including Emmitt Smith.

Deifying FAvre? You are funny as usual. Nobody has used the word hero around here but you. I am 52 yrs old and the next time I look at any ball player as a hero will be the first. People in this thread alone said he was selfish for playing last year because he just wanted records. He accomplished every record there was and guess what he still wants to play. I guess that squashes the thoughts of several that he only played to get the records now he could quit.

I have enjoyed watching FAvre play for my favorite team for the last 17 yrs. He is the most exciting QB I have ever seen play.

He has handled this retirement thing horribly. he had the chance to come back in late March but reneged on an agreement. The team then had to move on. They could not wait until the end of JUne to know whether or not he was coming back or not. Bretts indecisiveness cost him.

I really don't see it as selfish. I just don't think he knew what he wanted to do. Ever been faced with a tough decision James? Ever questioned yourself daily as to what decision you needed to make? Ever questioned your decision again after you made it? Ever changed your mind after that decision was made? Some are easier than others. I would think retiring from a Sport knowing that you can still play quite well (2nd in MVP at 38 yrs old validates that) has got to cause a man to think twice. He definetely has that right. But the Packers have the right to control how it plays out. He will not play for a Division North team this year unless Chicago or Minny wants to give a boatload of draft choices.

And for the record, he did not quit because the Packers did not get Randy Moss. You are making that up. And he never beat his wife. You making that up too. And if you paid attention to the consensus of Packer fans, most- including me, know he messed up and can't play for the Packers again.

[REDVOLUTION]

I feel vindicated. Brett Favre, selfishly puts his own needs above his teams.

He quits last year out of frustration becaue the Pack doesn't go after Randy Moss.

Now, he asks to be released so he can play for another team who has a better shot at a championship. I wouldn't be suprised if Favre goes to an NFL central team or another rival. Like I said, he is arguably the greatest QB of all time but he is no hero. Again, I'm not attacking Favre. He is human and one of the better human beings in the game.

I'm attacking the media and the misguided Favre fans like FloridaRob who want to deify him. Get a grip guys. Favre is as human as anyone else and he is going to do things that benefit him...just like all professional athletes have done including Emmitt Smith.

He has done that more than once.

He also quit last year in the game against us. When his "chucking" of the ball into 3 DB's turned into INT's. He took himself out of the game. But we all knew that he would be miraculously ready by next game. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Agreed. He is a good guy in the NFL.

Yes and Favre has rode their sensationalism and continues to do so. That good ol' boy. Well fans like FloridaRob do deify him but you are wrong about them being misguided... they CHOOSE to go that route. They know what Favre is deep down inside. A good QB who has just played a LONG time.




He accomplished every record there was and guess what he still wants to play.

Now you know that is partially because he played as long as he has(yes that record too) AND because he was selfish and threw more than he should have... hence the INT record as well.



I have enjoyed watching FAvre play for my favorite team for the last 17 yrs. He is the most exciting QB I have ever seen play.

Exciting certainly DOESNT make him one of the greatest of all time. He doesnt even make top 10. Probably approaches the top 10 list but not in it.



He has handled this retirement thing horribly.

This one made me laugh... REAL, REAL hard... coming from you. You were the Mr. Favre representative(oddly enough on a Cowboys forum) and stated more than once that they were only rumors and he had nothing to do with them and he was not coming back. You told us like it was factual.



I really don't see it as selfish. I just don't think he knew what he wanted to do.

While it is a little of both. We all know its more of the former than the latter.

Favre is as much a DIVA as TO is... he just disguises it differently. In a dishonest way. Atleast TO is always honest.
Only Cher can rival Favre in "Farewell" Tours. :lmao:

[mr.jameswoods]

Deifying FAvre? You are funny as usual. Nobody has used the word hero around here but you. I am 52 yrs old and the next time I look at any ball player as a hero will be the first. People in this thread alone said he was selfish for playing last year because he just wanted records. He accomplished every record there was and guess what he still wants to play. I guess that squashes the thoughts of several that he only played to get the records now he could quit.

I have enjoyed watching FAvre play for my favorite team for the last 17 yrs. He is the most exciting QB I have ever seen play.

He has handled this retirement thing horribly. he had the chance to come back in late March but reneged on an agreement. The team then had to move on. They could not wait until the end of JUne to know whether or not he was coming back or not. Bretts indecisiveness cost him.

I really don't see it as selfish. I just don't think he knew what he wanted to do. Ever been faced with a tough decision James? Ever questioned yourself daily as to what decision you needed to make? Ever questioned your decision again after you made it? Ever changed your mind after that decision was made? Some are easier than others. I would think retiring from a Sport knowing that you can still play quite well (2nd in MVP at 38 yrs old validates that) has got to cause a man to think twice. He definetely has that right. But the Packers have the right to control how it plays out. He will not play for a Division North team this year unless Chicago or Minny wants to give a boatload of draft choices.

And for the record, he did not quit because the Packers did not get Randy Moss. You are making that up. And he never beat his wife. You making that up too. And if you paid attention to the consensus of Packer fans, most- including me, know he messed up and can't play for the Packers again.


I called Favre arguably the greatest QB of all time and said he was one of the best human beings in the game so I'm not a Favre basher but I think you know that. You are the ultimate Favre fan and you can't stand even a little criticism directed toward his way so you have to depict me as Favre basher to belittle the valid points I made about him.

I'm not disputing the fact that Favre had a tough decision to make, but in life we also make sacrafices and realize we can't always do what we want. Haven't you wanted to do something but realized that your decision may disrespect or dishonor someone or something close to you? What do you do in that situation? I'm not saying it's an easy decision, but I try to do what is right to the best of my ability. The Packers have sacraficed a lot for Brett Favre as well and allowed him to play when he wasn't playing his best football. He played well last year but the two years prior to that, he was an average QB and most other teams would have likely not given him the opportunity to start. The Packers allowed him to play long enough to break all the records. They asked him to come back in the Spring and he said no. Now, he wants to come back and potentially play for a rival. At some point, wouldn't you consider the feelings of the fans and those that supported you? At some point, shouldn't he accept responsibility for his actions? If he quit then shouldn't he honor his word particularly when so many Green Bay fans were hoping he wouldn't retire?

I never accused Favre of beating his wife? Please provide a URL accusing me of stating Favre beat his wife. You are making that up. I'm predicting you will be sending me an apology pretty soon because I never said that and I dare you to search all my past messages and find it. Don't just run and hide now that I've challenged you to find that evidence.

[REDVOLUTION]

I The Packers have sacraficed a lot for Brett Favre as well and allowed him to play when he wasn't playing his best football.

This is true, but either dismissed or just not talked about.




They asked him to come back in the Spring and he said no.

There is more to that I am convinced. I think he was told that the starting QB job would not be handed to him. He would have to earn it. He didnt like that.




Now, he wants to come back and potentially play for a rival.

Its payback for McC and TT telling him he would have to earn it or quite possible they told him that he would be backup QB.



At some point, wouldn't you consider the feelings of the fans and those that supported you?


Brett is smart... he has it set up to have the fans in his favor EVEN if he went to play somewhere else.

[FloridaRob]

....
I never accused Favre of beating his wife? Please provide a URL accusing me of stating Favre beat his wife. You are making that up. I'm predicting you will be sending me an apology pretty soon because I never said that and I dare you to search all my past messages and find it. Don't just run and hide now that I've challenged you to find that evidence.

I do apologize for that. That was Daboys and put it with your statement. Sorry for that.

Again. Favre screwed this up himself. No way around it but in the end, the Packers GM may pay the ultimate price. This can not end good. If Favre is reinstated and the Packers let him come back, that will upset Aaron Rodgers who has bided his time for three yrs and spend this entire offseason preparing for starting. Then if FAvre were to come back and have a bad year, the Packers have put off their future and also ticked him off where he won't want to play for them.

If Favre is to go to another team and plays well, and Rodgers stinks it up, then TT will be tar and feathered in Green Bay and his job will be in jeapordy. If Rodgers gets hurt and FAvre is not available TT will be ripped. If they release him, he could sign with a rival and hurt the Packers.

There is no way this can possibly end without a lot of venom and poison between the two sides. Even if they did let him come back.

[FloridaRob]

This is true, but either dismissed or just not talked about.





There is more to that I am convinced. I think he was told that the starting QB job would not be handed to him. He would have to earn it. He didnt like that.





Its payback for McC and TT telling him he would have to earn it or quite possible they told him that he would be backup QB.




Brett is smart... he has it set up to have the fans in his favor EVEN if he went to play somewhere else.

Brett was going to be allowed to come back at the end of March and be the starter. The management agreed to that scenario. There was no talk of him being the back up then. Rodgers still would have been the back up. He decided two days before the announcement he wanted to stay retired. If the story came out about his unretirment don't you think the parties would have revealed by now that it was only as a back up. Don't let that stop you from making your own scenario up even tho it is fantasy.

Brett is smart but Packer fans are not in his corner on this. Check out their boards. Brett screwed this up and has only himself to blame.

[Rampage]

I do apologize for that. That was Daboys and put it with your statement. Sorry for that.

Again. Favre screwed this up himself. No way around it but in the end, the Packers GM may pay the ultimate price. This can not end good. If Favre is reinstated and the Packers let him come back, that will upset Aaron Rodgers who has bided his time for three yrs and spend this entire offseason preparing for starting. Then if FAvre were to come back and have a bad year, the Packers have put off their future and also ticked him off where he won't want to play for them.

If Favre is to go to another team and plays well, and Rodgers stinks it up, then TT will be tar and feathered in Green Bay and his job will be in jeapordy. If Rodgers gets hurt and FAvre is not available TT will be ripped. If they release him, he could sign with a rival and hurt the Packers.

There is no way this can possibly end without a lot of venom and poison between the two sides. Even if they did let him come back.
who do you want as the starting qb for the packers in the 2008 season?

[FloridaRob]

He has done that more than once.

He also quit last year in the game against us. When his "chucking" of the ball into 3 DB's turned into INT's. He took himself out of the game. But we all knew that he would be miraculously ready by next game. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Agreed. He is a good guy in the NFL.

Yes and Favre has rode their sensationalism and continues to do so. That good ol' boy. Well fans like FloridaRob do deify him but you are wrong about them being misguided... they CHOOSE to go that route. They know what Favre is deep down inside. A good QB who has just played a LONG time.






Now you know that is partially because he played as long as he has(yes that record too) AND because he was selfish and threw more than he should have... hence the INT record as well.




Exciting certainly DOESNT make him one of the greatest of all time. He doesnt even make top 10. Probably approaches the top 10 list but not in it.




This one made me laugh... REAL, REAL hard... coming from you. You were the Mr. Favre representative(oddly enough on a Cowboys forum) and stated more than once that they were only rumors and he had nothing to do with them and he was not coming back. You told us like it was factual.




While it is a little of both. We all know its more of the former than the latter.

Favre is as much a DIVA as TO is... he just disguises it differently. In a dishonest way. Atleast TO is always honest.
Only Cher can rival Favre in "Farewell" Tours. :lmao:

the guy threw for 4000 yds and was 2nd in the league vote for MVP. He doesnt have to apolgogize for coming back. He had his best season in 10 yrs.The records are his. IF Romo plays five more years than FAvre and owns every passing record, I doubt you will be saying that he only stayed for the records. But again you let your dislike for FAvre shine thru. Nobody will ask your opinion about where FAvre ranks in the alltime greats. They don't care what you or I think. But when it is all said and done, his name will be discussed in the top group. REgardless of how much you disagree. FAvre is as much as Diva as any prima dona Ball player. I give you that. But he has earned his Diva status.

As far as the rumors I stated, if you go back I was only quoting ESPNs reports. I didnt make up anything.

[FloridaRob]

who do you want as the starting qb for the packers in the 2008 season?

Rodgers sink or swim. He is the one that hasnt missed a day with the rest of the team.

It would have been nice if none of this happend and Rodgers got hurt early so all they had to do is call Brett in Mississippi and get him to Green Bay. But even that possibillity is gone....

[mr.jameswoods]

I do apologize for that. That was Daboys and put it with your statement. Sorry for that.

Again. Favre screwed this up himself. No way around it but in the end, the Packers GM may pay the ultimate price. This can not end good. If Favre is reinstated and the Packers let him come back, that will upset Aaron Rodgers who has bided his time for three yrs and spend this entire offseason preparing for starting. Then if FAvre were to come back and have a bad year, the Packers have put off their future and also ticked him off where he won't want to play for them.

If Favre is to go to another team and plays well, and Rodgers stinks it up, then TT will be tar and feathered in Green Bay and his job will be in jeapordy. If Rodgers gets hurt and FAvre is not available TT will be ripped. If they release him, he could sign with a rival and hurt the Packers.

There is no way this can possibly end without a lot of venom and poison between the two sides. Even if they did let him come back.

Apology accepted and I agree with your response. It's a very difficult situation for the Packers. Do you think the Packers are saying they won't release Favre to maybe get a draft pick for him in a trade? Is that even possible at this time of year? If that were to be the case, I have to give props to the Packers management. That would be a smart move because some team would gladly give them a 4th maybe a 3rd round pick to have him play for a season and for the Packers, that's better than getting nothing for him

[FloridaRob]

Apology accepted and I agree with your response. It's a very difficult situation for the Packers. Do you think the Packers are saying they won't release Favre to maybe get a draft pick for him in a trade? Is that even possible at this time of year? If that were to be the case, I have to give props to the Packers management. That would be a smart move because some team would gladly give them a 4th maybe a 3rd round pick to have him play for a season and for the Packers, that's better than getting nothing for him

they positively won't release him. No way will he be allowed to go to Minny, Chicago, and probably Tampa. A trade could happen but that would be to a non NFC team. And Ted Thompson would want higher than a 4thor 3rd. The guy was 2nd in MVP voting last year. SF got a 1st and 3rd from KC for Montana and I doubt TT would want anything less than a 2nd.

I think in the end, that the Packers will call his bluff and FAvre will stay retired. Check out the FAvre timeline on JSOnline.com. It shows how far the Packers were willing to go but it reached a point of no return.

[sago1]

Whenever a player decides to retire, it's always tough decision for any of them. When a player has been a starter for a very long time, it's a tough time not only for the player but for the team. When the player is the starting QB whose had a great NFl career, that QB better be REAL sure about his decision. It's got major repercussions for the team as well as the QB. That's my problem with Favre. For last few years, he's been hemming and hawing about whether he was going to retire or not. After going 13-3 in 07, I just assumed he'd be back in 08. But no, in March he says he's retiring. It was a big surprise. Now we hear he got in touch with the Packers sometime in late March/very early in April & told them he wanted come back. Just a few days later & after plans were made for the FO to fly down to Miss to escort him back, he calls the FO and says no he's going to stay retired. So the FO goes ahead and drafts 2 QBs to back up Rogers & begins seriously to work Rogers in as their future starter. Now Favre wants to come back & start but does he really want to play for the Packers or does he want to become a FA so he can select the best team to help get him another SB win? Frankly, Favre sounds totally indecisive & uncaring about the chaos he is creating for the Packers. Just sounds to me like Favre is all about Favre. Or is that just the way most NFL players feel when it's their career. Cause it sure can't be about the money. It also seems like Favre didn't really make any serious plans what to do with his life after football. I mean did he really think he could be happy as a simple farmer on a 435 acre farm. Does this guy have any grasp of reality?

I know some Cowboy fans think it would be great to bring in Favre as Romo's backup. Forget it cause Favre isn't coming back as anybody's backup. Aaron Rogers said that in his first year with the Packers that Favre wouldn't even talk to him. Do any of you really believe Favre would be interested in mentoring Romo? Frankly I think he'd do anything to help Romo regress hoping he could take over. Favre would divide the lockerroom like no player has ever done & the season would go down the drain.

Anyway in the end the Packers probably let him come back & he and Rogers will fight it out for the starting job with Favre winning the job. Unfortunately, I don't expect the Packer season to end any better then it did in January 08 with a loss to the NFC division winner--which in this case will be our Dallas Cowboys.