Manningham not as slow [Archive] - Dallas Cowboys Forum

SDogo

03-15-2008, 07:30 AM

Read on footballs future he ran a a 4.39 at his pro day on a slow track!

If he's there middle round 2, I'd trade up to get him, I really like him and would be GREAT VALUE!
Especially if we go for a big W.R. like Hardy in round 1.
I'd like to get Romo a future #1 and a speed slot guy for the rest of his career NOW to grow together and not have to worry about W.R. for a long time!

How the hell does a guy go from running a time in the 4.6 to running a sub 4.4 in just a few weeks?

Either way, I agree with Silver. I don't care if he ran a 4.1 or 5.0, if a WR can't catch the ball he won't have a chance to use that speed.

Avery

03-15-2008, 09:00 AM

Hand-timed 40?

dbair1967

03-15-2008, 09:59 AM

I have better hands than Manningham has...

and I asked this on another thread, other than the Ohio St game (which was played in the rain) when did he drop alot of balls?

Almost every draft guide or write up on him I've seen says he has good hands, but sometimes doesnt concentrate. Andhe isnt a body catcher either, which is a plus.

I've seen him play a number of times in his 3yrs there, and it seemed he was always making plays and a highlight film grab here or there

David

ThatsmyQB

03-15-2008, 12:51 PM

[quote=HomeOfLegends;1999295]How the hell does a guy go from running a time in the 4.6 to running a sub 4.4 in just a few weeks?

Happens all the time, slow start, off day, etc., they only run twice, and we're talking .2 of a second, which is a blink of an eye!
I don't believe he ran 4.6 either, He was in the hgh 4.5 range I believe off the top of my head.

Either way, I agree with Silver. I don't care if he ran a 4.1 or 5.0, if a WR can't catch the ball he won't have a chance to use that speed

You're agreeing with someone who has no idea what he's talkin about though, Manningham has very good hands!

ThatsmyQB

03-15-2008, 12:52 PM

and I asked this on another thread, other than the Ohio St game (which was played in the rain) when did he drop alot of balls?

Almost every draft guide or write up on him I've seen says he has good hands, but sometimes doesnt concentrate. Andhe isnt a body catcher either, which is a plus.

I've seen him play a number of times in his 3yrs there, and it seemed he was always making plays and a highlight film grab here or there

David

Don't listen to ne guy who doesn't know what he's talkin about Manningham has good hands, he doesn't have a clue what he's talkin about!
Her'es a quick scoutign report from NFL draft countdown!

Wide Receiver | Junior | Michigan
Mario ManninghamHeight: 5-113/4 | Weight: 181 | 40-Time: 4.60 http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerphotos/wr/mariomanningham.jpg
Official Bio (http://www.mgoblue.com/football/playerbio.aspx?id=69202)

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/images/stars/four.gif Strengths:
Excellent speed with a burst...Very elusive in the open field...A great route runner who gets good separation...Excellent hand-eye coordination...Terrific body control and ball skills...Exceptional leaping ability...A true deep threat who can stretch the field vertically...Quick and agile...Very productive and consistent...He will pluck the ball out of the air with his hands and make the acrobatic catch....Has a history of making a play when it matters the most...Offers some value as a return specialist.

Weaknesses:
Undersized and lacks the ideal bulk that you look for...Durability is a concern..He's not very physical and needs to get stronger...Not real tough and doesn't work the middle of the field much...Has some trouble when jammed at the line...Is not much of a blocker...Didn't see much action as a return man in college...Character issues.

Notes:
Cousin of former Michigan All-American and NFL offensive lineman Bubba Paris...He caught 27 touchdown passes in 34 career college games (one every five catches) and the vast majority of his scores were from 20 yards out or longer...Suspended for a game in 2007 for violating a team rule...A smooth, polished wideout who has everything you look for except ideal size..A dynamic offensive weapon who should be an excellent pro as long as he can stay healthy and keep his head on straight.

TheCount

03-15-2008, 01:36 PM

Hand-timed 40?

Yeah, by his agent.

ThatsmyQB

03-15-2008, 02:33 PM

Yeah, by his agent.

Yep, it was just him and his agent with no one else looking on with their own stop watch, they just made up a number and passed it off as if he really ran it! :rolleyes:

SDogo

03-15-2008, 04:41 PM

[quote]You're agreeing with someone who has no idea what he's talkin about though, Manningham has very good hands!

I'm agreeing with him not because of anything he has said and done but because from what I have seen and other's that I talk to despite having a good "triangle" for a WR his lack of concentration has caused him to drop passes at key times. I never seen a reason to believe he will drop the tough pass but if you watch enough film you will find more then a few Patrick Crayton moments on his resume.

ThatsmyQB

03-15-2008, 05:09 PM

[quote=ThatsmyQB;1999524]

I'm agreeing with him not because of anything he has said and done but because from what I have seen and other's that I talk to despite having a good "triangle" for a WR his lack of concentration has caused him to drop passes at key times. I never seen a reason to believe he will drop the tough pass but if you watch enough film you will find more then a few Patrick Crayton moments on his resume.

That's not how I took this comment!

Either way, I agree with Silver. I don't care if he ran a 4.1 or 5.0, if a WR can't catch the ball he won't have a chance to use that speed.

Sounded like you were saying he's got stone hands!

Bob Sacamano

03-15-2008, 06:56 PM

I'm agreeing with him not because of anything he has said and done but because from what I have seen and other's that I talk to despite having a good "triangle" for a WR his lack of concentration has caused him to drop passes at key times. I never seen a reason to believe he will drop the tough pass but if you watch enough film you will find more then a few Patrick Crayton moments on his resume.

TO loses concentration and drops passes too, just food for thought

and alot of players refuse to run at the Combine, only to do it at their Pro Day, or workout there, is because they are comfortable in that environment, which is why you see players increase their workout numbers, plus they get a couple of extra, more weeks to workout and improve

SDogo

03-15-2008, 07:44 PM

[quote=HomeOfLegends;1999723]

That's not how I took this comment!

Sounded like you were saying he's got stone hands!

More like he loses concentration on what should be easy receptions that would allow him to use his "speed" but will make the highlight film catches.

Yes, I put speed in parenthesis. lol

SDogo

03-15-2008, 07:45 PM

TO loses concentration and drops passes too, just food for thought

and alot of players refuse to run at the Combine, only to do it at their Pro Day, or workout there, is because they are comfortable in that environment, which is why you see players increase their workout numbers, plus they get a couple of extra, more weeks to workout and improve

Yes he does and how nice would it be to not have to hold your breath every time the ball is thrown his way. lol

burmafrd

03-15-2008, 09:35 PM

Every game I have watched Manningham in (about 6-7) he has dropped at least one ball. Sure TO drops them but he makes a lot more plays then Manningham EVER has.

ThatsmyQB

03-15-2008, 09:49 PM

Every game I have watched Manningham in (about 6-7) he has dropped at least one ball. Sure TO drops them but he makes a lot more plays then Manningham EVER has.

We talkin normal drops?
Like Crayton when he shoudl of had a 70 yarder or what not against the Giants, or off his fingertips and what not?
Cause from what I've seen he's got very good hands and catches the ball with his HANDS and not his body.

silverbear

03-15-2008, 10:47 PM

[quote=HomeOfLegends;1999723]

That's not how I took this comment!

Sounded like you were saying he's got stone hands!

OK, maybe it's not his hands but his concentration that's more to blame for his problems... it's still the same result, he drops too many passes he should be catching... and in the NFL, a WR who's inconsistent catching the ball generally doesn't find himself getting a lot of reps...

silverbear

03-15-2008, 10:59 PM

Every game I have watched Manningham in (about 6-7) he has dropped at least one ball. Sure TO drops them but he makes a lot more plays then Manningham EVER has.

I've seen him play 2 or 3 games, and it's the same for me... I've even heard the announcers comment on it, leading me to believe it's a problem he's had in games I didn't see, too...

Beyond that, he's more or less a one season wonder, having put up just 65 catches in 22 games played in his first two seasons... when you read comments about him not being real physical, not being willing to work the middle of the field, and having a hard time getting off the jam, you start to think he sounds like a faster Brandon Lloyd...

Here's a sentence from NFL Draft Dog that sums him up nicely, IMO:

He loses concentration sometimes when getting pushed around and is a little hesitant to go over the middle, at this stage he may purely be a sideline/deep threat.

I was being playful when I said I have better hands than he has (though I do have really good hands, LOL), the point I was making is that although he's capable of making the highlight reel grab, he's way too prone to dropping what should be fairly easy catches... if he does that a time or two or three in preseason games, coaches are not going to give him much of a role in the offense come the regular season...

I just don't think that Mario will be a particularly good receiver in the NFL... he gets compared to Terry Glenn on the Cowboys boards, but his game is much more limited than Glenn's is, and his consistency catching the ball is nowhere near Terry's either...

He ranks somewhat lower on my draft boards than he does on most of the experts', I'll give you that...

ThreeSportStar80

03-15-2008, 11:41 PM

I think Devon Thomas from Michigan State might be a better pro prospect...

TheCount

03-16-2008, 02:22 AM

I think Devon Thomas from Michigan State might be a better pro prospect...

How is that? One productive year and good numbers at the combine? I don't know that Manningham will be a better pro, but people are going gaga over Thomas' combine and projecting him like he's a sure fire pick when he literally had 9 catches the year before this one.

burmafrd

03-16-2008, 05:48 AM

There is not one WR in this years draft that I REALLY like. Hardy interests me due to his size; but other then that I say pass on the whole class.

Jordan55

03-16-2008, 07:45 AM

I have better hands than Manningham has...

For once, I might agree with the Bear, but of course I haven't seen the Bear personally catch a ball, where as I have seen Manningham drop a few to many.
Their has to be other options to consider.:D

ThatsmyQB

03-16-2008, 10:04 AM

How is that? One productive year and good numbers at the combine? I don't know that Manningham will be a better pro, but people are going gaga over Thomas' combine and projecting him like he's a sure fire pick when he literally had 9 catches the year before this one.

Well don't you think that a guy who had 9 catches the year before all of a sudden has a great season out of nowhere must have some special skills that once he got his chance, he made it count?

He's got everything you want in a n NFL W.R. with his triangular numbers of height/weight/speed and has good hands leaping ability and the only thing he's missing is breaking out earlier in his college career, but that's not uncommon!
I like him and wouldn't mind him at #28, would prefer to move up a few spots to #18 if Malcolm Kelly is still there, but I like Thomas!

TheCount

03-16-2008, 10:56 AM

Well don't you think that a guy who had 9 catches the year before all of a sudden has a great season out of nowhere must have some special skills that once he got his chance, he made it count?

Yes. Still, I wouldn't spend a 1st round draft pick to find out whether he caught lightning in a bottle or really is so good. If he really is good, he should have had no problem staying in school another year, doing even better, and being a sure fire 1st rounder next year.

I like him too, but he is neither a sure thing nor worthy of a 1st round pick with pretty much only a single seasons worth of tape on him.

ThatsmyQB

03-16-2008, 12:01 PM

If he really is good, he should have had no problem staying in school another year, doing even better, and being a sure fire 1st rounder next year.

You don't know the Q.B. situation, or his financial situation either, you can't just say simply go back to school if he was so good!

I like him too, but he is neither a sure thing

No one in the draft is EVER a sure thing!

nor worthy of a 1st round pick with pretty much only a single seasons worth of tape on him.

Late 1st round, I think he's worthy!
I really like Jerome Simpson to be a steal in this draft in round 3 if he lasts till our pick!
6'-2 210 ran a 4.37 and constantly beat double teams, now this is a kid I REALLY LIKE if we don't get a W.R. in round 1!

TheCount

03-16-2008, 01:22 PM

You don't know the Q.B. situation, or his financial situation either, you can't just say simply go back to school if he was so good!

It doesn't matter what his reasons are, and whether or not his reasons are valid. He isn't going back, so we'll never know.

No one in the draft is EVER a sure thing!

Pearls of wisdom.

Late 1st round, I think he's worthy!
I really like Jerome Simpson to be a steal in this draft in round 3 if he lasts till our pick!
6'-2 210 ran a 4.37 and constantly beat double teams, now this is a kid I REALLY LIKE if we don't get a W.R. in round 1!

Not sure where you get your information from, I didn't see Simpson run a 4.3 40, I see 4.47, maybe you had a typo.

Anyway, once again you may be relying too much on combine numbers. Simpson played for a no name school, against no name competition, and wasn't even dominant on that level (not a single 100 yard game all year). I'd much rather have Jordy Nelson in the third, although he may be gone early in the 3rd, at least he faced good competition and produced.

Even still, there are a couple of guys I'd take before Simpson. I'd probably still rather Adarius Bowman at that point.

ThatsmyQB

03-17-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsmyQB http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2000328#post2000328)
You don't know the Q.B. situation, or his financial situation either, you can't just say simply go back to school if he was so good!

It doesn't matter what his reasons are, and whether or not his reasons are valid. He isn't going back, so we'll never know.

Um, no shiit sherlock!
I was reasponding to his question is all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsmyQB http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2000328#post2000328)
No one in the draft is EVER a sure thing!

Pearls of wisdom.

See above, donkey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsmyQB http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2000328#post2000328)
Late 1st round, I think he's worthy!
I really like Jerome Simpson to be a steal in this draft in round 3 if he lasts till our pick!
6'-2 210 ran a 4.37 and constantly beat double teams, now this is a kid I REALLY LIKE if we don't get a W.R. in round 1!

Not sure where you get your information from, I didn't see Simpson run a 4.3 40, I see 4.47, maybe you had a typo.

You are correct, had old notes on him, must of been rumoored to run that or ran it last year on campus or something.

Anyway, once again you may be relying too much on combine numbers.

Once again you ASSUME a lot of stuff that simply ain't true!
I just stated his combine numbers, I in no way are relyign on them too much!

Simpson played for a no name school,

So have a lot of hall of famers!

against no name competition, and wasn't even dominant on that level (not a single 100 yard game all year). I'd much rather have Jordy Nelson in the third, although he may be gone early in the 3rd, at least he faced good competition and produced.

I'd take Nelson too, I thinkj he'll be gone beforeourpickinround2.

Even still, there are a couple of guys I'd take before Simpson. I'd probably still rather Adarius Bowman at that point.

:lmao2:

ThreeSportStar80

03-17-2008, 01:13 PM

StarHead69

03-17-2008, 02:13 PM

There is not one WR in this years draft that I REALLY like. Hardy interests me due to his size; but other then that I say pass on the whole class.

:hammer:

... not in the first round anyways!

ThatsmyQB

03-17-2008, 02:34 PM

:hammer:

... not in the first round anyways!

http://walterfootball.com/college/Oklahoma_logo.gif Malcolm Kelly, Oklahoma
Height: 6-3. Weight: 224.
Projected 40 Time: 4.47.
Combine 40 Time: Did not run.
Vertical: . Broad .
Projected Round: Top 20 Pick.

TheCount

03-17-2008, 02:47 PM

Again, I'm stating MY opinion... I believe he's a better pro prospect because of his ability to run after the catch.

I've got no problem with your opinion, I'm just making mine clear so when Jerry comes on Cowboy Zone looking for future draft scouts, maybe he'll notice me and pay me 2 mil a year. ;)

BraveHeartFan

03-17-2008, 02:58 PM

If he really runs near that fast and is there mid-round 2 then y eah I'd be thrilled if we grabbed him up.

garrett316

03-17-2008, 03:28 PM

I've seen him play 2 or 3 games, and it's the same for me... I've even heard the announcers comment on it, leading me to believe it's a problem he's had in games I didn't see, too...

Beyond that, he's more or less a one season wonder, having put up just 65 catches in 22 games played in his first two seasons... when you read comments about him not being real physical, not being willing to work the middle of the field, and having a hard time getting off the jam, you start to think he sounds like a faster Brandon Lloyd...

Here's a sentence from NFL Draft Dog that sums him up nicely, IMO:

I was being playful when I said I have better hands than he has (though I do have really good hands, LOL), the point I was making is that although he's capable of making the highlight reel grab, he's way too prone to dropping what should be fairly easy catches... if he does that a time or two or three in preseason games, coaches are not going to give him much of a role in the offense come the regular season...

I just don't think that Mario will be a particularly good receiver in the NFL... he gets compared to Terry Glenn on the Cowboys boards, but his game is much more limited than Glenn's is, and his consistency catching the ball is nowhere near Terry's either...

He ranks somewhat lower on my draft boards than he does on most of the experts', I'll give you that...
How is Manningham a one year wonder? He caught 27 passes, 6 of which went for tds, as a freshman. Not bad for a freshman.

As a sophomore he caught 38 balls for over 700 yrads with 9 tds in 9 games. He missed 4 games with a knee injury which he had surgery on and still came back to play in UM's final 3 games. If my math is right that projects to 60 rec. for over 1,000 yards and 13 tds.

His junior year he caught 72 passes for over 1100 yards and 12 more tds.

I wouldn't classify him as a one year wonder. That designation should go to Limas Sweed more than Manningham.

TheCount

03-17-2008, 03:33 PM

How is Manningham a one year wonder? He caught 27 passes, 6 of which went for tds, as a freshman. Not bad for a freshman.

As a sophomore he caught 38 balls for over 700 yrads with 9 tds in 9 games. He missed 4 games with a knee injury which he had surgery on and still came back to play in UM's final 3 games. If my math is right that projects to 60 rec. for over 1,000 yards and 13 tds.

His junior year he caught 72 passes for over 1100 yards and 12 more tds.

I wouldn't classify him as a one year wonder. That designation should go to Limas Sweed more than Manningham.

I was with you all the way to that point. Sweed's college career is pretty similar to Manningham's, I'd say.

garrett316

03-17-2008, 03:44 PM

I was with you all the way to that point. Sweed's college career is pretty similar to Manningham's, I'd say.
Really? Well, Sweed played 4 years at UT and appeared in 40 career games. His numbers were 124 receptions for 1915 yards and 20 tds.

Manningham only played 3 years at UM, and appearing in 8 fewer games than Sweed did, caught 137 passes for 2,310 yardas and 27 tds. So , in basically 1 fewer season Manningham had more catches, yards, and tds than Sweed.

Sweed also never sniffed 1,000 yards in any season and will be 24 in 2008. Manningham turns 22 in May.

TheCount

03-17-2008, 04:04 PM

Really? Well, Sweed played 4 years at UT and appeared in 40 career games. His numbers were 124 receptions for 1915 yards and 20 tds.

Manningham only played 3 years at UM, and appearing in 8 fewer games than Sweed did, caught 137 passes for 2,310 yardas and 27 tds. So , in basically 1 fewer season Manningham had more catches, yards, and tds than Sweed.

Sweed also never sniffed 1,000 yards in any season and will be 24 in 2008. Manningham turns 22 in May.

I don't think stats tell the whole story there, but you're entitled to your opinion.

DFWJC

03-17-2008, 04:21 PM

Read on footballs future he ran a a 4.39 at his pro day on a slow track!

If he's there middle round 2, I'd trade up to get him, I really like him and would be GREAT VALUE!
Especially if we go for a big W.R. like Hardy in round 1.
I'd like to get Romo a future #1 and a speed slot guy for the rest of his career NOW to grow together and not have to worry about W.R. for a long time!

I was surpised he was timed at 4.6+ originally, but 4.39 is a head scratcher. I don't see how you can drop that much. In any case, I consider him very polished compared to msot of the others, but not enough to take before late Rd2. Seeing that we may grab a WR in Rd 1, I would not use that 2nd rd pick for another WR.

lkelly

03-17-2008, 07:41 PM

Not mentioned in this awe inspiring debate is the fact that Manningham has some Antonio Bryant in him. He's a bit of a head case.

BraveHeartFan

03-18-2008, 10:27 AM

Man that would be terrible. I'm really upset about the Bryant deal cause I thought the kid had plenty of talent, and upside, if he could have lost his attitude and stupid nature.

ThatsmyQB

03-18-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcells316 http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2001342#post2001342)
Really? Well, Sweed played 4 years at UT and appeared in 40 career games. His numbers were 124 receptions for 1915 yards and 20 tds.

Manningham only played 3 years at UM, and appearing in 8 fewer games than Sweed did, caught 137 passes for 2,310 yardas and 27 tds. So , in basically 1 fewer season Manningham had more catches, yards, and tds than Sweed.

Sweed also never sniffed 1,000 yards in any season and will be 24 in 2008. Manningham turns 22 in May.

I don't think stats tell the whole story there, but you're entitled to your opinion.

:lmao2: :laugh1: :laugh2: :lmao: :lmao2: