Obama: 'This is not a crackpot church'

[Heisenberg]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Obama_This_is_not_a_crackpot_church.html

Obama: 'This is not a crackpot church'


Carrie Budoff Brown sends over the transcript from Obama's appearance, airing tomorrow, on the Michael Smerconish Show on 1210 AM WPHT in Philadelphia, from audio the show provided.

In the interview, Obama says he's talked to Wright in the past about "some of his views," and defends Trinity, saying "This is not a crackpot church."

Smerconish is a conservative talker who's been defending Obama's race speech.

OBAMA: I will be honest with you that I didn’t have that many conversations with him over the last year just because I have been so busy. I haven't been going to church. I wasn’t hearing a lot of these comments. The ones that are most offensive are ones that I never knew about until they were reported on. I had had conversations with him in the past – in fact from the day I first met him -- about some of his views. Understand this, something else that has not been reported on enough is despite these very offensive views, this guy has built one of the finest churches in Chicago. This is not a crackpot church. Witness the fact that Bill Clinton invited him to the White House when he was having his personal crises. This is a pillar of the community and if you go there on Easter on this Easter Sunday and you sat down there in the pew you would think this is just like any other church. ... So I don’t want to suggest that somehow, the loops you have been seeing typifies the services all the time. That is the danger of the YouTube era. It doesn't excuse what he said. But it gives it some perspective.

Q: Would the speech have come as a surprise to Wright?

OBAMA: No, I think he recognizes. When some these remarks first came to light were a year ago, and I actually called him and it created some tensions that were reported in the newspapers. He understood that his perspective on some of these issues were very different from mine and hopefully we could agree to disagree on some of these issues. I wasn’t familiar with some of the most offensive remarks that had come up otherwise we probably would have a more intense conversation.

[Heisenberg]

This seems like the best explanation I've read anywhere so far.

[Hostile]

I feel so bad for him. This has to be a nightmare.

[theogt]

The fact that he has to tell people it's not a "crackpot church" tells you what people think of his church. And simply saying it's not isn't going to change that opinion.

[Heisenberg]

The fact that he has to tell people it's not a "crackpot church" tells you what people think of his church. And simply saying it's not isn't going to change that opinion.

The reason he has to say it is because the vast majority of people only get their impression of that church from a few seconds of a few sermons over a 30 year career of ONE of the pastors at that church.

God forbid people do a little research and really find out what the church is like or all the good things they do in the community. That would require work.

[theogt]

The reason he has to say it is because the vast majority of people only get their impression of that church from a few seconds of a few sermons over a 30 year career of ONE of the pastors at that church.

God forbid people do a little research and really find out what the church is like or all the good things they do in the community. That would require work.If you want to get elected president, you just can't attend and donate to a church with a racist/crackpot pastor.

[ZeroClub]

If you want to get elected president, you just can't attend and donate to a church with a racist/crackpot pastor.
There is a difference between a racist/crackpot pastor and a pastor who occasionally says racist/crackpot things.

[Heisenberg]

There is a difference between a racist/crackpot pastor and a pastor who occasionally says racist/crackpot things.

Yuppers. The man has won numerous awards, helped grow a church that does a lot of good in their community, and has travelled the world helping those less fortunate, but because of these videos from a 30 year career, he's seen as a loon.

His political views may be a bit skewed, but to write him off as totally insane or crazy is a real simple way of viewing things.

[iceberg]

I feel so bad for him. This has to be a nightmare.

you run for president, you're going to be handed nightmare after nightmare. the trick is in how you deal with it.

i feel like he's being honest and loyal to his church. i'm not offended or even worried about it. by seeing how he's dealing with all this, i have even more respect for the man. he's not backing down and he's patiently putting it into perspective.

it seems like his "enemies" are doing everything they can to find fault and coming up with a hand full of empty straws in the end. it's time someone quit being PC in all their replies and just said how they honestly felt about it and let me worry about it after that on my own.

[iceberg]

Yuppers. The man has won numerous awards, helped grow a church that does a lot of good in their community, and has travelled the world helping those less fortunate, but because of these videos from a 30 year career, he's seen as a loon.

His political views may be a bit skewed, but to write him off as totally insane or crazy is a real simple way of viewing things.

unfortunately the IGS only takes things in their simpliest forms to process good/bad. thinking is a waste of time it seems these days.

[theogt]

There is a difference between a racist/crackpot pastor and a pastor who occasionally says racist/crackpot things.Okay. If you want to be president you can't attend and donate to a church that has a pastor who occasionally says racist/crackpot things on video that the church distributes itself.

[iceberg]

The fact that he has to tell people it's not a "crackpot church" tells you what people think of his church. And simply saying it's not isn't going to change that opinion.

so if someone called you a crackpot on your views, they're right?

your saying you're not a crackpot isn't a valid place to start?

i do agree some have their minds made up and that's sad. they'll use any bullet for their gun, fits or otherwise. i think the vast majority are tired of knee-jerking biting them in the end and will start to listen.

the fact he has to tell people he doesn't belong to a crackpot church is what's sad.

[theogt]

so if someone called you a crackpot on your views, they're right?

your saying you're not a crackpot isn't a valid place to start?

i do agree some have their minds made up and that's sad. they'll use any bullet for their gun, fits or otherwise. i think the vast majority are tired of knee-jerking biting them in the end and will start to listen.

the fact he has to tell people he doesn't belong to a crackpot church is what's sad.They made their minds up AFTER seeing video of the crackpot pastor. It's pretty simple. The guy screwed up by being attached to this guy.

[ZeroClub]

Okay. If you want to be president you can't attend and donate to a church that has a pastor who occasionally says racist/crackpot things on video that the church distributes itself.
I'm not convinced that is a true statement.

Billy Graham occasionally said some truly inappropriate things and yet he was no stranger to Presidents.

Occasionally stupid things uttered by preachers, pastors, priests, rabbis, etc. haven't changed Presidential elections in the past, so far as I can remember.

Obama's bigger political problem is that he's locked in a battle with Hillary "I won't quit this campaign until you pry it from my cold dead hands" Clinton, who is committed to a scorched earth kitchen sink approach.

[iceberg]

They made their minds up AFTER seeing video of the crackpot pastor. It's pretty simple. The guy screwed up by being attached to this guy.

i've seen rush limbaugh pick and choose what he wants you to see and with that "soundbyte" - he can paint a picture any way you wish to go.

if you live 99 great days and only had 1 bad day, do you want people to only see that 1 day? i'm not saying it isn't good to know it's there. but i am saying first, it's his pastor not him and second, obama shouldn't have to agree with everything his pastor says.

i'm a roman catholic and i don't ever even do that. in fact, i was usually a priests nightmare in questions i'd come up with.

i'm saying if i really cared about it i'd dive deep into the story of the church. see the good *and* the bad and find out where they measure up. i'd look at your 99 other days of contributions as well as your 1 day things got away from you.

i just think it's cherry picking at this point to take the extreme only and make judgements about obama when it's not even obama saying the extreme things. just standing by a friend.

hilllary would have put her preacher on a skewer and sold it on pay per view for charity, bypassing the money to land deals in arkansas. anything at all to make you think she gives a damn about your views.

obama holds onto his own and near as i can tell still accepts counterviews w/o a rash of judgement. maybe if more people did that tolerance would go up and PC less necessary.

[Doomsday101]

I think it is a church and a man who preaches division with in the country. Obama may not share his views but he also does not condem them nor did he leave the church in spite of the message being preached. Sorry people can spin this all day long but who in their right mind would stay in a church for 20 years listening to these type of statements if they found it offensive.

[ZeroClub]

I think it is a church and a man who preaches division with in the country. Obama may not share his views but he also does not condem them nor did he leave the church in spite of the message being preached. Sorry people can spin this all day long but who in their right mind would stay in a church for 20 years listening to these type of statements if they found it offensive.
Here's one for you:

It has been widely reported that McCain engaged in multiple affairs, in violation of Uniform Code of Military Justice rules, while married to his first wife (a woman who required crutches and gained weight following a serious auto accident).

So really, which one is worse? Knowing somebody who occasionally says offensive things, or carousing with subordinates and adultery?

I'm just saying ....

[iceberg]

I think it is a church and a man who preaches division with in the country. Obama may not share his views but he also does not condem them nor did he leave the church in spite of the message being preached. Sorry people can spin this all day long but who in their right mind would stay in a church for 20 years listening to these type of statements if they found it offensive.

people by and large stay in whatever religion they're born into. is it faith or fault of birth? i can agree on not liking a pastor or not but there's usually a community church you go to. i recall not always liking the pastors we had but out of respect for the position you just find the good where you could.

not defending obama here - or even his pastor. not read enough to really know if this is something he tirades on say every thursday at 4pm or if he just gets on that soapbox rarely.

i just don't care that much. if i want people to quit being racist you sooner or later have to let things slide and let action not words show why that's taking the high road.

[iceberg]

Here's one for you:

It has been widely reported that McCain engaged in multiple affairs, in violation of Uniform Code of Military Justice rules, while married to his first wife (a woman who required crutches and gained weight following a serious auto accident).

So really, which one is worse? Knowing somebody who occasionally says offensive things, or carousing with subordinates and adultery?

I'm just saying ....

oh either way we'll have a sinner in the white house. : ) status quo, huh? :)

[Doomsday101]

people by and large stay in whatever religion they're born into. is it faith or fault of birth? i can agree on not liking a pastor or not but there's usually a community church you go to. i recall not always liking the pastors we had but out of respect for the position you just find the good where you could.

not defending obama here - or even his pastor. not read enough to really know if this is something he tirades on say every thursday at 4pm or if he just gets on that soapbox rarely.

i just don't care that much. if i want people to quit being racist you sooner or later have to let things slide and let action not words show why that's taking the high road.

Please that is not the only church in town. I did not say he should change faith but to sit there and listen to this BS for years makes one think that evidently he was not offended by it or he would not continue to go to this particular church. This man by Obama own words is someone very close to him. If the shoe was not on the other foot you don't think Obama and his followers would not make issue of it?

[iceberg]

Please that is not the only church in town. I did not say he should change faith but to sit there and listen to this BS for years makes one think that evidently he was not offended by it or he would not continue to go to this particular church. This man by Obama own words is someone very close to him. If the shoe was not on the other foot you don't think Obama and his followers would not make issue of it?

granted. but then again these comments are not the only ones he's ever made, are they? i've seen articles saying the church has done a lot of good things also.

i'm seeing obama stand by a friend in a rough time. refreshing.

[Doomsday101]

granted. but then again these comments are not the only ones he's ever made, are they? i've seen articles saying the church has done a lot of good things also.

i'm seeing obama stand by a friend in a rough time. refreshing.

I'm sure they have done good deeds I would say Louis Ferrikan has done good deeds as well abd while Obama was quick to dismiss him that is something he has not done with Rev. White. The again I guess I'm just a typical white. I wonder how that would fly had McCain made the comment referring to an entire race as a typical black. Bottom line is Obama has been a member of this church for 20 years and has sat through these tiraids by White and yet will not condem these actions and words. If you don't believe in what some one is preaching then you would not be sitting there and subjecting yourselfs to this.

[iceberg]

I'm sure they have done good deeds I would say Louis Ferrikan has done good deeds as well abd while Obama was quick to dismiss him that is something he has not done with Rev. White. The again I guess I'm just a typical white. I wonder how that would fly had McCain made the comment referring to an entire race as a typical black. Bottom line is Obama has been a member of this church for 20 years and has sat through these tiraids by White and yet will not condem these actions and words. If you don't believe in what some one is preaching then you would not be sitting there and subjecting yourselfs to this.

i don't believe sassy but i read (sometimes) his posts too. or i guess since he's here and i so strongly disagree with him and his views, i should go elsewhere. granted, he's not a preacher, but also granted i think what he said is being pushed to the extreme for no other reason than to cause damage to obama.

would you admire him if he told his preacher goodbye forever? or would you think he's giving up on friends? *is* there a good way he could handle this to you? not being sarcastic, just wondering what else you're looking at i've not seen yet.

[REDVOLUTION]

Whoaa.... I went from the "Obama is dead" thread to this one and for the first 15 seconds I was thinking that OSAMA was claiming that Wright's church was not a crackpot church???.....

Like I said.... Whoaa... that was weird.

back to our regularly scheduled program....

[burmafrd]

The CHURCH distributed those VIDEO's. So you CANNOT absolve the church itself that easily. I seriously DOUBT that in 20 years those were the only racist/hatefull/stupid rants that guy has done. If you believe that then you will believe ANYTHING. Obama SHOULD have told that preacher that he cannot continue to attend his services as long as that kept happening. HE DID NOT do that. So he has to shoulder part of the blame.
I find it hard to beleive, Ice, that you are so willing to pass on this.
THESE were NOT isolated instances from everything that has been said since so many started digging into this. THIS HAPPENED REGULARLY.

[iceberg]

The CHURCH distributed those VIDEO's. So you CANNOT absolve the church itself that easily. I seriously DOUBT that in 20 years those were the only racist/hatefull/stupid rants that guy has done. If you believe that then you will believe ANYTHING. Obama SHOULD have told that preacher that he cannot continue to attend his services as long as that kept happening. HE DID NOT do that. So he has to shoulder part of the blame.
I find it hard to beleive, Ice, that you are so willing to pass on this.
THESE were NOT isolated instances from everything that has been said since so many started digging into this. THIS HAPPENED REGULARLY.

i find it hard you're so willing to condem because of this.

i need more. you found enough.

i've never passed judgement on any one thing. don't look for me to now cause you get your panties wet over it.

[Jon88]

The CHURCH distributed those VIDEO's. So you CANNOT absolve the church itself that easily. I seriously DOUBT that in 20 years those were the only racist/hatefull/stupid rants that guy has done. If you believe that then you will believe ANYTHING. Obama SHOULD have told that preacher that he cannot continue to attend his services as long as that kept happening. HE DID NOT do that. So he has to shoulder part of the blame.
I find it hard to beleive, Ice, that you are so willing to pass on this.
THESE were NOT isolated instances from everything that has been said since so many started digging into this. THIS HAPPENED REGULARLY.


Sure it did. This wasn't an isolated incident. Did you hear his comments about Natalie Holloway?

[iceberg]

Sure it did. This wasn't an isolated incident. Did you hear his comments about Natalie Holloway?

i'll listen to you more than burm if i could pay more attention here.

your take?

[Jon88]

i'll listen to you more than burm if i could pay more attention here.

your take?


Well, he was a racist preacher who said hateful things about the US and white people, and in 20 years I don't believe this only happened a few times. Obama should have either told him to tone it down (a lot) or he should have left. He didn't do that (or he did and it didn't work), and now he's facing the consequences.

[iceberg]

Well, he was a racist preacher who said hateful things about the US and white people, and in 20 years I don't believe this only happened a few times. Obama should have either told him to tone it down (a lot) or he should have left. He didn't do that (or he did and it didn't work), and now he's facing the consequences.

in 20 years how many times is too much?

obama is a member of the church - is his position now to tell the preacher what to preach?

i don't want my government doing that.

he's facing the good side of this too. i'm not buying the witch hunt yet.

[Jon88]

in 20 years how many times is too much?

obama is a member of the church - is his position now to tell the preacher what to preach?

i don't want my government doing that.

he's facing the good side of this too. i'm not buying the witch hunt yet.


Being that this racist who hates America is his mentor doesn't help things either.

In 20 years one time is too much.

[iceberg]

Being that this racist who hates America is his mentor doesn't help things either.

at times i hate america too. but it doesn't mean i hate everything about it - just something important at the time.

maybe he is racist. but you don't deal with an extreme with an extreme. you only keep extremes alive.

is your goal to tell him he's wrong or help him find his place in the overall picture?

we make assumptions out of no cost. yet i doubt we'd want our own day to day held under the same standards.

[iceberg]

Being that this racist who hates America is his mentor doesn't help things either.

In 20 years one time is too much.

in 20 years you never said something you regretted? misunderstood?

we live a lifeitime in a lifetime and we change as a culture even less. but we sure do judge to standards we'd never live by.

day to day.

[Jon88]

at times i hate america too. but it doesn't mean i hate everything about it - just something important at the time.

maybe he is racist. but you don't deal with an extreme with an extreme. you only keep extremes alive.
is your goal to tell him he's wrong or help him find his place in the overall picture?

we make assumptions out of no cost. yet i doubt we'd want our own day to day held under the same standards.


Maybe who is a racist? Rev. Wright? He definitely is. And he hates his country. Criticism is fine. Stirring hate is entirely different. I find it troubling that a US Senator would call that guy his mentor.

[iceberg]

Maybe who is a racist? Rev. Wright? He definitely is. And he hates his country. Criticism is fine. Stirring hate is entirely different. I find it troubling that a US Senator would call that guy his mentor.

i'm not saying he isn't racist. but i never changed someone by tagging them.

but i went the distance when i tried to understand why they were who they are.

i simply don't know anymore than what a media who at one point said TO was the anti- - and i believed it.

i take the extreme with a grain of salt now. i put it into day by day and not give it more than it deserves for no other reason than lack of something better to focus upon.

maybe the rev is racist. that doesn't mean i can assume the depth of obama's patience. or that i should put it where i'd put my own. you make connections you want to make when you link the two.

i hated it when done to bush, i hate it now.

i hate the mob.

[Jon88]

i'm not saying he isn't racist. but i never changed someone by tagging them.

but i went the distance when i tried to understand why they were who they are.

i simply don't know anymore than what a media who at one point said TO was the anti- - and i believed it.

i take the extreme with a grain of salt now. i put it into day by day and not give it more than it deserves for no other reason than lack of something better to focus upon.

maybe the rev is racist. that doesn't mean i can assume the depth of obama's patience. or that i should put it where i'd put my own. you make connections you want to make when you link the two.

i hated it when done to bush, i hate it now.

i hate the mob.


Interesting way of looking at it, but I have to wonder how much this hate-America reverend has influenced him. He won't wear the American flag lapel pin, refering to it as "that pin." There is also a video of him not putting his hand over his heart during the singing of the national anthem like every other American on stage. If he's not proud of this country (like his wife, who wasn't for years until now), why is he wasting everyone's time by running for president?

[iceberg]

Interesting way of looking at it, but I have to wonder how much this hate-America reverend has influenced him. He won't wear the American flag lapel pin, refering to it as "that pin." There is also a video of him not putting his hand over his heart during the singing of the national anthem like every other American on stage. If he's not proud of this country (like his wife, who wasn't for years until now), why is he wasting everyone's time by running for president?

put this issue aside. mark it, note it, but put it aside.

is this a theme for him or an extreme?

i'm much more worried about seeing a running theme in someone.

he has some strong views. sure.

but don't we ask our leader to be strong? not a parakeet?

[Jon88]

put this issue aside. mark it, note it, but put it aside.

is this a theme for him or an extreme?

i'm much more worried about seeing a running theme in someone.

he has some strong views. sure.

but don't we ask our leader to be strong? not a parakeet?

We ask our leader to be strong and to love his country.

Listen to this speech. It's a classic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs

[heavyg]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Obama_This_is_not_a_crackpot_church.html

Obama: 'This is not a crackpot church'


Carrie Budoff Brown sends over the transcript from Obama's appearance, airing tomorrow, on the Michael Smerconish Show on 1210 AM WPHT in Philadelphia, from audio the show provided.

In the interview, Obama says he's talked to Wright in the past about "some of his views," and defends Trinity, saying "This is not a crackpot church."

Smerconish is a conservative talker who's been defending Obama's race speech.

OBAMA: I will be honest with you that I didn’t have that many conversations with him over the last year just because I have been so busy. I haven't been going to church. I wasn’t hearing a lot of these comments. The ones that are most offensive are ones that I never knew about until they were reported on. I had had conversations with him in the past – in fact from the day I first met him -- about some of his views. Understand this, something else that has not been reported on enough is despite these very offensive views, this guy has built one of the finest churches in Chicago. This is not a crackpot church. Witness the fact that Bill Clinton invited him to the White House when he was having his personal crises. This is a pillar of the community and if you go there on Easter on this Easter Sunday and you sat down there in the pew you would think this is just like any other church. ... So I don’t want to suggest that somehow, the loops you have been seeing typifies the services all the time. That is the danger of the YouTube era. It doesn't excuse what he said. But it gives it some perspective.

Q: Would the speech have come as a surprise to Wright?

OBAMA: No, I think he recognizes. When some these remarks first came to light were a year ago, and I actually called him and it created some tensions that were reported in the newspapers. He understood that his perspective on some of these issues were very different from mine and hopefully we could agree to disagree on some of these issues. I wasn’t familiar with some of the most offensive remarks that had come up otherwise we probably would have a more intense conversation.


If he would have said that during his big speech I would tend to believe it more. THAT is what I was wanting to hear that day. But now I see it as spin control.

[heavyg]

people by and large stay in whatever religion they're born into. is it faith or fault of birth? i can agree on not liking a pastor or not but there's usually a community church you go to. i recall not always liking the pastors we had but out of respect for the position you just find the good where you could.




By changing the church you go to you are not changing your religion. I have recently started going to a deferent church. I was going to a FreeWill Baptist Church. Been going to a FreeWill Baptist church since the age of 16. But we are now attending an Assembly of God Church. Its still Protestant and believe in the save things with a few denominational differences.

[burmafrd]

So far there has been a least half a dozen instances that are known. And rumors are that there are DOZENS more. But poor ICE would need to see HUNDREDS I guess.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

But I guess no amount will be enough for Ice.

[iceberg]

So far there has been a least half a dozen instances that are known. And rumors are that there are DOZENS more. But poor ICE would need to see HUNDREDS I guess.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

But I guess no amount will be enough for Ice.

and how many times did i also say i've not dug that deep - i'm just not going by a couple of cherry picked examples?

again people hear what they want regardless of what is said, burm.

[Doomsday101]

i don't believe sassy but i read (sometimes) his posts too. or i guess since he's here and i so strongly disagree with him and his views, i should go elsewhere. granted, he's not a preacher, but also granted i think what he said is being pushed to the extreme for no other reason than to cause damage to obama.

would you admire him if he told his preacher goodbye forever? or would you think he's giving up on friends? *is* there a good way he could handle this to you? not being sarcastic, just wondering what else you're looking at i've not seen yet.

I would not have friends who preach hate. I have parted ways with so called friends if what I feel they are doing in harmful or hateful. Would you hang out with a friend who joined the Skinsheads or the KKK? I know I wouldn't, I would talk with them about the choice they made but in the end no I would no longer be around them.

[iceberg]

I would not have friends who preach hate. I have parted ways with so called friends if what I feel they are doing in harmful or hateful. Would you hang out with a friend who joined the Skinsheads or the KKK? I know I wouldn't, I would talk with them about the choice they made but in the end no I would no longer be around them.

ok, i did go out and listen to a couple and it's the same things black people have always been able to say in public but a white person never could. the question is - putting the hate parade aside, what do his other sermons say? is he just as critical of blacks? i don't know - i really don't.

if this were his only message then yes, i'd have a hard time with it. but given that he's won several awards as well this portrayal we're seeing now can't be the only side to him.

maybe it is and i'm just not wanting to see it cause i hate racism so much and don't want to go there.

[Doomsday101]

ok, i did go out and listen to a couple and it's the same things black people have always been able to say in public but a white person never could. the question is - putting the hate parade aside, what do his other sermons say? is he just as critical of blacks? i don't know - i really don't.

if this were his only message then yes, i'd have a hard time with it. but given that he's won several awards as well this portrayal we're seeing now can't be the only side to him.

maybe it is and i'm just not wanting to see it cause i hate racism so much and don't want to go there.

As I said I'm sure the man has done good deeds as well, I don't think he is a monster but I do think many of his comments are laced with hate and should be looked at no matter if he is black or white. It should not be tolerated period. He is free to say it but Obama reluctance to condemn it is a problem

[iceberg]

As I said I'm sure the man has done good deeds as well, I don't think he is a monster but I do think many of his comments are laced with hate and should be looked at no matter if he is black or white. It should not be tolerated period. He is free to say it but Obama reluctance to condemn it is a problem

maybe he's just trying to make too many people happy. dunno. but yes, the hate needs to go and i'd think a preacher would be the first to realize that.

now i better understand where others are coming from.

[Doomsday101]

maybe he's just trying to make too many people happy. dunno. but yes, the hate needs to go and i'd think a preacher would be the first to realize that.

now i better understand where others are coming from.

I don't know a statement from the church leaders have defended Wright and seem as they feel no need to take back or apologies for anything he said.

[WoodysGirl]

I don't know a statement from the church leaders have defended Wright and seem as they feel no need to take back or apologies for anything he said.And you'll never receive an apology or a denouncement from church leaders for what Reverend Wright has said. Why should they? They didn't say it, he did.

Growing up in the church as I did, I've always heard incendiary comments from the pulpit. My experience with that leads me to place filters on what comes from the pulput. I've heard alot of things coming from the pulpit that I didn't always agree with, some of it political, some of it theological.

On a side note, Rev. Wright is scheduled to deliver three sermons in Houston at one of the city's larger congregations. I may very well attend, so I can hear for myself in person what his ideals are.

[Doomsday101]

And you'll never receive an apology or a denouncement from church leaders for what Reverend Wright has said. Why should they? They didn't say it, he did.

Growing up in the church as I did, I've always heard incendiary comments from the pulpit. My experience with that leads me to place filters on what comes from the pulput. I've heard alot of things coming from the pulpit that I didn't always agree with, some of it political, some of it theological.

On a side note, Rev. Wright is scheduled to deliver three sermons in Houston at one of the city's larger congregations. I may very well attend, so I can hear for myself in person what his ideals are.

I'm sure you are right and they see nothing wrong in what was being said, heck they cheered him on.

[WoodysGirl]

Black clergy try to put Wright's comments in context
Supporters say he is part of a historical role in the black church

By ALLAN TURNER
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

To many Americans, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's fiery pulpit pronouncements about race, terrorism and the federal government's alleged war on black youth seemed recklessly provocative.

But as Sen. Barack Obama, who for 20 years attended Wright's Chicago church, sought Tuesday to limit the sermons' damage to his campaign to become the nation's first black president, another view of the retired pastor's comments emerged.

Wright, supporters in the black clergy said, merely was adhering to traditions of Christianity and the black church. His comments were meant to generate thought, and seemed alarming only in the out-of-context glare of the national media.

"Listen to the average black revival or Sunday service," said the Rev. William Lawson, pastor emeritus at Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church. "You'll hear that we have a good God, but we have a nation that has been unfair to the little people. That's not a new thing."

Wright's comments about the nation have drawn the strongest response. In a sermon, Wright said that instead of blessing America, blacks should damn it for its mistreatment of them and suggested that the nation had brought the attacks of Sept. 11 on itself.


Acknowledging that pain
Lawson said Wright, an ordained minister in the largely white United Church of , has preached annual sermons at Wheeler Baptist for 15 years and has again been invited to appear. Wright also has preached at Pilgrim Congregational Church of , where the Rev. Myron Cloyd called him one of the nation's most eloquent preachers.

"The role of pastors to speak about what's going on in the community — that's a very historic role," Cloyd said. "The black church, historically, was the only autonomous black organization. That pre-dates the civil rights era. That goes all the way back to slavery."

Activist "prophetic" clergy like Wright trenchantly speak to the burdens of blacks. "That they're victims of racism," Cloyd said. "They acknowledge that pain, not tell you it's all in your head."

The role of the African-American church, added Michael Battle, president of Atlanta's Interdenominational Theological Center, is to "provide a voice to the voiceless."

Cloyd, whose pulpit denunciation of the Iraq invasion angered some of his parishioners, claimed Wright as a mentor. People attending Wright's church — Wright retired in February after 36 years in the pulpit — understood the context of his comments. They recognized, Cloyd said, that his remarks damning America were directed to the government, not the people or their principles.

"He has been very, very committed to people in general and the black community," Cloyd said. "He comes from the standpoint of black liberation. But he's not a separatist. His message is one of black empowerment, but he's never talked about black people being superior. I've listened to his sermons for over 25 years."

Sermons such as Wright's are meant to be provocative, said the Rev. Graylan Hager, a Washington, D.C., minister who is president of the United Church of group, Ministers for Racial, Social and Economic Justice.

"They call upon people to respond, whether you agree or disagree. It makes you examine where you are, where we are, and out of that examination correct what was wrong," Hager said. "We're reminded that was ' discipline. He said, 'Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees.' He didn't say, 'Good morning, you scribes and Pharisees.' "


Close race blamed
Martin Luther King Jr. operated within the prophetic tradition, Hager said, charging in his April 4, 1967, New York City speech that America was the greatest purveyor of violence in the world. "It caused people who had heaped praises on him to heap curses on him," Hager said.

Lawson said the furor would have abated if the public had been able to hear an entire sermon rather than a snippet. Lawson said it was only as Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton battled for the Democratic presidential nomination that the comments were made public by those seeking to derail his candidacy.


The real target?
"They've known about Wright for 40 years," Lawson said. "They suddenly decided they had to slow Obama down. They couldn't find a prostitute. They couldn't find his hands in the offering tray. So they thought they'd find some bad association. They'd tie his hands to a pastor who's supposedly racist. Wright wasn't the target. Obama was the target."

Obama on Tuesday, in his first address on race in America, said the anger reflected in Wright's sermons "is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."

Battle, whose institute consists of six largely black seminaries, said Obama adroitly handled the challenge indignation over Wright's comments posed to his campaign.

"His speech was probably the most profound speech on, not just race, but social issues in this country, since Dr. King's letter from the Birmingham jail," Battle said. "He was thoughtful and passionate."

allan.turner@chron.com

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5631320.html

[Jordan55]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/kn0314acd.jpg

[Danny White]

Great Political Denials throughout history:

Richard Nixon: "I am not a crook."

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/RichardNixonFarewell.jpg



Bill Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman... Miss Lewinsky."

http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~agermats/images/finger.jpg



Barack Obama: "This is not a crackpot church."

http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0712/6bafd1a870df5686bb44.jpeg

[ConcordCowboy]

I'm not convinced that is a true statement.

Billy Graham occasionally said some truly inappropriate things and yet he was no stranger to Presidents.

Occasionally stupid things uttered by preachers, pastors, priests, rabbis, etc. haven't changed Presidential elections in the past, so far as I can remember.

Obama's bigger political problem is that he's locked in a battle with Hillary "I won't quit this campaign until you pry it from my cold dead hands" Clinton, who is committed to a scorched earth kitchen sink approach.

:laugh2:

[Jon88]

And you'll never receive an apology or a denouncement from church leaders for what Reverend Wright has said. Why should they? They didn't say it, he did.

Growing up in the church as I did, I've always heard incendiary comments from the pulpit. My experience with that leads me to place filters on what comes from the pulput. I've heard alot of things coming from the pulpit that I didn't always agree with, some of it political, some of it theological.

On a side note, Rev. Wright is scheduled to deliver three sermons in Houston at one of the city's larger congregations. I may very well attend, so I can hear for myself in person what his ideals are.


Doesn't surprise me at all.

[WoodysGirl]

Doesn't surprise me at all.
Your point?

[Jon88]

Your point?

My point is that it doesn't surprise me.

[WoodysGirl]

My point is that it doesn't surprise me.
What doesn't surprise you? I have no idea what you're talking about.

[AbeBeta]

"You'll hear that we have a good God, but we have a nation that has been unfair to the little people."


It really is just this simple.

[Sasquatch]

Great Political Denials throughout history:

Richard Nixon: "I am not a crook."

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/RichardNixonFarewell.jpg



Bill Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman... Miss Lewinsky."

http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/%7Eagermats/images/finger.jpg



Barack Obama: "This is not a crackpot church."

http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0712/6bafd1a870df5686bb44.jpeg

Comparing the Wright scandal to criminal acts committed by former presidents while they were in office? That's a bit of a stretch even for those desperate to seize on to any pretext to vote for an otherwise lackluster candidate.

[zrinkill]

"You'll hear that we have a good God, but we have a nation that has been unfair to the little people."

Its also a nation that allows the "little people" to achieve freedoms and wealth that is unimaginable in any other country.

People tend to forget that part while they are feeling sorry for themselves.

[WoodysGirl]

Its also a nation that allows the "little people" to achieve freedoms and wealth that is unimaginable in any other country.

People tend to forget that part while they are feeling sorry for themselves.
There is no feeling sorry for yourself in any church I've attended. That's a very narrow view to perceive of what is preached from the pulpit.

[Jon88]

Its also a nation that allows the "little people" to achieve freedoms and wealth that is unimaginable in any other country.

People tend to forget that part while they are feeling sorry for themselves.


People forget that part because feeling sorry for yourself is the easiest thing to do.

[Jon88]

There is no feeling sorry for yourself in any church I've attended. That's a very narrow view to perceive of what is preached from the pulpit.


I think he was talking in broader terms.

[zrinkill]

There is no feeling sorry for yourself in any church I've attended.


I do not believe I said that there was at your church.

But anyone who focuses on the "little peoples" oppression and does not focus on the "little peoples" ability to better themselves in this wonderful nation is missing something.

I would be a prime example.

[zrinkill]

That's a very narrow view to perceive of what is preached from the pulpit.

I was commenting on that one comment. Not on the sermons as a whole.

[WoodysGirl]

I think he was talking in broader terms.
I can understand that, but JMO, the people who feel sorry for themselves aren't attending church.

Because I'm in a meeting, I can't go too deeply into this, but talking about past sins of this country, doesn't mean you can't appreciate what the country offers today. Alot of the anger there might be is because people were prevented from partaking of the freedoms and rewards this country offers.

Yes, that has changed over the years, but it hasn't been forgotten...on both sides..

[zrinkill]

Yes, that has changed over the years, but it hasn't been forgotten...on both sides..

Then "both sides" are at fault for continuing the cycle.

My Latino immigrant grandparents were run out of the furniture business in Bastrop Texas by White business owners ..... and they hated my white dad and his halfbreed children (me), and never spoke to my mother (for marrying a white man) again till they needed her to take care of them.

I have no tolerance for the racism and stupidity of either "side"

[Jon88]

Then "both sides" are at fault for continuing the cycle.

My Latino immigrant grandparents were run out of the furniture business in Bastrop Texas by White business owners ..... and they hated my white dad and his halfbreed children (me), and never spoke to my mother (for marrying a white man) again till they needed her to take care of them.

I have no tolerance for the racism and stupidity of either "side"


I agree.

[zrinkill]

And I want to clarify that I do not believe that Obama is a racist or that his church is a crackpot church.

Obama gets halfbreed brownie points from me ..... I dont trust you full breeds.


:p:;)

[Jon88]

And I want to clarify that I do not believe that Obama is a racist or that his church is a crackpot church.

Obama gets halfbreed brownie points from me ..... I dont trust you full breeds.


:p:;)

Technically no one's a full breed if you want to split hairs.

[zrinkill]

Technically no one's a full breed if you want to split hairs.

Come on man ..... don't ruin my joke.

:cool:

[Jon88]

Come on man ..... don't ruin my joke.

:cool:

I said if you want to split hairs. You don't have to.

[Danny White]

Comparing the Wright scandal to criminal acts committed by former presidents while they were in office? That's a bit of a stretch even for those desperate to seize on to any pretext to vote for an otherwise lackluster candidate.

Duly noted.

For the record, I was more trying to make a joke than trying to make a political statement.

:)

[Sasquatch]

Duly noted.

For the record, I was more trying to make a joke than trying to make a political statement.

:)

Well, you have to admit that in this day and age it's sometimes difficult to separate serious political discourse from farce.

My bad.

:)

[Chief]

Billy Graham occasionally said some truly inappropriate things and yet he was no stranger to Presidents.


Such as ....

[Danny White]

Well, you have to admit that in this day and age it's sometimes difficult to separate serious political discourse from farce.

My bad.

:)

I usually try to mix satire with seriousness to keep everyone guessing. :p:


The only serious point, or rather comparison, I was trying to make was the observation that at the time you find yourself making a denial like "I'm not a crook" or "I'm not a crackpot" -- it may be too late. The fact that you have to make a declaration like that may be a strong indicator that the public is rapidly making up it's mind on the issue.

Mostly, though, I wanted to post that picture of Bill Clinton making the little finger-bangy motion! :D

[AbeBeta]

Such as ....

He said the Jews controlled the media - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1850077.stm