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View Full Version : What happened to our DT's and WR's?


Chuck 54
10-30-2004, 08:39 PM
A rhetorical question of course, but I find it interesting that two positions of strength and depth have suddenly turned not only weaker, but critical:

DT...never a position of strength, it was at least a position of depth and hope: Blade, Stewart, Brooks, Carson, Eaton, and even some unknowns...now we're down to "just three defensive tackles - Carson and La'Roi Glover, and Chris Cooper...Cooper has played in just one game this year, but did not record a tackle against the Giants (Oct. 10)."

Yikes, that's a recipe for disaster...Cooper? Who the hell is Cooper? and we want to stop other teams from running on us? I can only surmise that this means we may see more of Coleman at DT.

WR...Once a position of strength, numbers, and hope with Keyshaun, Glenn, AB, Creighton, Ward, Williams, Copper....a nice mixture of experience, size, speed, and youth for developing...now we're down to "just Keyshawn Johnson (27 catches, 368 yards, 2 touchdowns), Dedric Ward and Randal Williams, and now the two rookies Crayton and Copper on the active roster.
Of the five, only Johnson and Ward have caught a pass in a regular-season game."

Double Yikes...a team that has lived and died through the air now will look to Keyshaun, whom any team CAN take out of the game if they have no one else to worry about due to his lack of speed...before, he was a difficult guy to double because that left you in trouble with Glenn and AB. Now the only threat if a defense decides to take Key out of the game is.....gulp.....Dedric Ward??? And the #3 guy is a 4th year WR who's never caught a pass in an NFL game? And those 3 are backed up by 2 rookies who've been inactive, or cut and signed to the Practice Squad???

Don't get me wrong, maybe we'll be okay because we'll commit to the running game. Maybe Coleman will give Glover and Carson some rest, or maybe Cooper will go from nobody to somebody fast, but is that scary or what?

And maybe Keyshaun will suddenly become uncoverable and play like Randy Moss...certainly he'll have no complaints about no balls coming his way, or maybe Randall Williams will show that BP was insane for having him inactive every game this entire season...maybe he'll even make some plays on special teams...frankly, I have greater hope that Creighton will forget he's a rookie and will make some plays using his QBing knowledge of defenses, and let's not forget that Witten may see more action, if that's even possible, but this position now scares me even more than DT...I mean, it's not like we have a young Emmitt Smith back there behind an all-pro OL to take over the game and open things up for other teams.

If I'm coordinating the defense, I play only 7 men in the box since even when the running game has gone okay, BP has shown no patience or commitment to it...I double team Keyshaun and render him unreliable as an every down option...I single cover Ward and any other WR whom the NFL has no official stat on yet....When it's 3rd and long, I bring the 8th man in the box and blitz like crazy to see if Vinny can trust Ward, Creighton or Copper to make a hot read, run a pattern and make a play...I think I sack him several times and probably get 2-3 interceptions where he and his WR's aren't on the same page or where a young WR doesn't fight for the blitz read position necessary.

ON offense, I'm going to pound the ball at our T's early, make them and the DE's commit totally to the run before I start opening it up through the air...by then, I shouldn't see much pass rush, and I think I'm going to really have some fun when Glover and Carson get tired during a long drive and have no adequate rotation to turn to.

If everything goes our way this Sunday, we may still defeat the Lions, but if things go against us and Cooper, Ward, Creighton and Copper show that indeed they are NOT NFL capable players, we may be in a world of hurt, not only this week, but next week as well.

Yes, most of those DT's had their chances and didn't turn it on and were cut....certainly Antonio Bryant played a big part in turning his head coach against him, and no, I don't know as much NFL football as Parcells has forgotten over the years, and yes, I have the advantage of 20-20 hindsight.

I just know I'd feel a helluva lot better if Dalroy Stewart was the #3 DT and if AB was starting at WR with Key and Ward was only needed when we go to 3 WR's, which we probably would use less due to Glenn's injury.

We've had no injuries at the DT position and only 1 serious injury to the WR's, Glenn. There's no way BP or anyone else could have predicted Glenn's injury or Morgan's sore hammy, but holy crap....to use a poker metaphor, it looks like we gambled with a pair at each position and drew some lousy kickers....I think we threw some cards away that would have helped us now.

Hostile
10-30-2004, 11:06 PM
Good post.

I have a feeling Kenyon Coleman will move to DT and Kalen Thornton from OLB to DE and that he will get more snaps since he is bringing decent pressure. Look for him to be on a serious weight gaining program next off season.

I think we're just sunk at WR. There are no FAs to sign to help us. Losing Glenn was a horrible blow. Morgan should only miss one game. That does help. How ironic is it that had he just tried to be a team player AB would have his wish now and be one of the go to guys?

Mike Williams in the draft and Shaun Rogers or a stud DT in the draft are almost necessities.

4lifecowboy
10-30-2004, 11:33 PM
Good post.

I have a feeling Kenyon Coleman will move to DT and Kalen Thornton from OLB to DE and that he will get more snaps since he is bringing decent pressure. Look for him to be on a serious weight gaining program next off season.

I think we're just sunk at WR. There are no FAs to sign to help us. Losing Glenn was a horrible blow. Morgan should only miss one game. That does help. How ironic is it that had he just tried to be a team player AB would have his wish now and be one of the go to guys?

Mike Williams in the draft and Shaun Rogers or a stud DT in the draft are almost necessities.

How can we steal Rogers?

Hostile
10-30-2004, 11:39 PM
How can we steal Rogers?
He's a Free Agent after the season ends.

RoyRocks
10-30-2004, 11:53 PM
One which you have almost no chance of getting because unless Millens an idiot (hes been convincing me otherwise) we will slap the franchise tag on him if he tries to leave. Besides us lions have a huge amount of cap space. Good luck with that one.

Hostile
10-31-2004, 12:00 AM
One which you have almost no chance of getting because unless Millens an idiot (hes been convincing me otherwise) we will slap the franchise tag on him if he tries to leave. Besides us lions have a huge amount of cap space. Good luck with that one.
Lots of players who become Free Agents sign with the teams they rooted for in their home state.

You may give it no weight, that doesn't make it fact.

If Detroit Franchise tags him I wouldn't be shocked.

Calling it impossible is ridiculous.

junk
10-31-2004, 12:47 AM
Good post.

I have a feeling Kenyon Coleman will move to DT and Kalen Thornton from OLB to DE and that he will get more snaps since he is bringing decent pressure. Look for him to be on a serious weight gaining program next off season.

I think we're just sunk at WR. There are no FAs to sign to help us. Losing Glenn was a horrible blow. Morgan should only miss one game. That does help. How ironic is it that had he just tried to be a team player AB would have his wish now and be one of the go to guys?

Mike Williams in the draft and Shaun Rogers or a stud DT in the draft are almost necessities.

Kalen Thornton is already a DE in my book. I sure haven't seen him line up at LB.

Hostile
10-31-2004, 01:06 AM
Kalen Thornton is already a DE in my book. I sure haven't seen him line up at LB.
The club lists him as a LB though.

junk
10-31-2004, 08:06 AM
The club lists him as a LB though.

I know. And people are penciling him in to start there next year, but if he lines up at DE and plays DE, I call him a DE.

Nors
10-31-2004, 08:18 AM
Good post.

I have a feeling Kenyon Coleman will move to DT and Kalen Thornton from OLB to DE and that he will get more snaps since he is bringing decent pressure. Look for him to be on a serious weight gaining program next off season.

I think we're just sunk at WR. There are no FAs to sign to help us. Losing Glenn was a horrible blow. Morgan should only miss one game. That does help. How ironic is it that had he just tried to be a team player AB would have his wish now and be one of the go to guys?

Mike Williams in the draft and Shaun Rogers or a stud DT in the draft are almost necessities.

When everything is good for HIM, he's ok.
The second it gets difficult for HIM he blows up.

Walking time bomb - he'll blow up in Cleveland the second things don't go his way. A brat.

Good riddance.

MichaelWinicki
10-31-2004, 08:29 AM
When everything is good for HIM, he's ok.
The second it gets difficult for HIM he blows up.

Walking time bomb - he'll blow up in Cleveland the second things don't go his way. A brat.

Good riddance.


I would agree with that Nors.

Hollywood Henderson
10-31-2004, 08:49 AM
Same here, AB was part of the problem not the solution...

Good post Wayne, but The Lions have no need to pound us early in the running game to have us committed to stopping the run...
Thats all we try to do...Thats "Occupy & engage"

I see them using alot of play action on run downs and running on 3rd & short...
zimmy is just too easy, passive & predictable...

On our offense, Key & Witten are likely to be doubled, so with all the talk of EG getting the ball and a new found commitment to the running game...I go play action to EG and hit Randall DEEP early!
It will send a message even if it doesn't work, they will have to cover the whole field...
I am looking forward to seeing R.Williams...Lets see what he can do...

After being embarrassed the last few weeks on D, I am wondering if Parcells has tweaked the D at all or if he is letting zimmy cut his own throat?

notherbob
10-31-2004, 09:15 AM
Noticing that this team doesn't have many tackles brings up a couple of questions -
How many tackles does it take to play the 3-4?
Are DE's and linebackers essentially interchangeable in the 3-4?
Even though they're not really big enough, wouldn't the ball-hawking skills of Dat and Coakley fit right into a 3-4?

'notherBob
Just wondering while waiting for that extra hour to creep by before kickoff. :o

junk
10-31-2004, 09:45 AM
Noticing that this team doesn't have many tackles brings up a couple of questions -
How many tackles does it take to play the 3-4?
Are DE's and linebackers essentially interchangeable in the 3-4?
Even though they're not really big enough, wouldn't the ball-hawking skills of Dat and Coakley fit right into a 3-4?

'notherBob
Just wondering while waiting for that extra hour to creep by before kickoff. :o


And look at the tackles they do have. Undersized Glover, Cooper and Carson. They would be hard pressed to run a 3-4....successfully anyway.