An Interesting Draft Scenario By Colin Cowherd

[Hostile]

Draftniks remember fondly a few years ago when Minnesota did not get their pick to the podium on time. 2 or 3 teams rushed ot get their pick up there. The Draft got very exciting.

Colin Cowherd is speculating that could happen again this year with the very first pick in the Draft. Miami owns the pick but wants to trade down. The problem is, nobody wants to trade up.

Miami is said to have 4 players on their radar with the #1 pick and they don't favor any one player over the others. The players are...

Jake Long, OT, Michigan
Chris Long, DE, Virginia
Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB, Ohio State
Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU

What Miami wants to do is save itself about 12 million dollars in guaranteed money. So they very well may pass on the #1 pick and wait until 3 of those 4 guys are gone before taking the last guy on the list. The question is, how many picks go ahead of them before they get to that point?

Will they do this? I don't know, but I have to admit I'd love to see it. Colin contacted the NFL Offices and they confirm this is legal under their Guidelines.

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, but why would anyone make the pick if they don't want it?

The entire draft could be on hold as every single team passes with the #1 pick still not made. :p:

[Meat-O-Rama]

The agent for whoever they draft will hold out for number one money.

[Hoofbite]

That would be a pretty sneaky move by BP.

I'd love to see it. Don't really know what would happen but it would be interesting to say the least.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You know if someone wanted to do that just to save some money.

I am sure a team or two would be willing to swap first round picks and a 7th round this year or a 7th round next year.

See the way I see it the trade value chart is moot at this point if they are willing to just skip their turn for a few spots so why not get a 7th rounder out of the deal.

[Hostile]

The agent for whoever they draft will hold out for number one money.They can't win if they do.

[Hoofbite]

You know if someone wanted to do that just to save some money.

I am sure a team or two would be willing to swap first round picks and a 7th round this year or a 7th round next year.

See the way I see it the trade value chart is moot at this point if they are willing to just skip their turn for a few spots so why not get a 7th rounder out of the deal.

Wouldn't trade have to be approved by the league?

Also, who wants to be the team that goes penny pinching and trades back for way less then equal value? At least this way the team waiting while others go can say that they were in control and avoid looking like complete idiots.

[MichaelWinicki]

Draftniks remember fondly a few years ago when Minnesota did not get their pick to the podium on time. 2 or 3 teams rushed ot get their pick up there. The Draft got very exciting.

Colin Cowherd is speculating that could happen again this year with the very first pick in the Draft. Miami owns the pick but wants to trade down. The problem is, nobody wants to trade up.

Miami is said to have 4 players on their radar with the #1 pick and they don't favor any one player over the others. The players are...

Jake Long, OT, Michigan
Chris Long, DE, Virginia
Vernon Gholston, DE/OLB, Ohio State
Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU

What Miami wants to do is save itself about 12 million dollars in guaranteed money. So they very well may pass on the #1 pick and wait until 3 of those 4 guys are gone before taking the last guy on the list. The question is, how many picks go ahead of them before they get to that point?

Will they do this? I don't know, but I have to admit I'd love to see it. Colin contacted the NFL Offices and they confirm this is legal under their Guidelines.


Simply "Wow".

Would love to see that happen. :)

What great TV that would make!

[big dog cowboy]

I'd really love to see that happen.

Put the Tuna on TV and watch him say "We don't care who we get. At this point it's all about saving money. We will turn our card in when we are ready."

[Hostile]

Simply "Wow".

Would love to see that happen. :)

What great TV that would make!How cool would it be to see 5 to 6 picks in the first 12 minutes of the Draft?

I tell you, I'd have an accident.

[Chief]

If that happens, then the system officially needs fixing.

Bad teams should covet the first pick. I guess something needs to be done about the rookie salaries.

[ABQCOWBOY]

We actually talked about this happening last week. I'd imagine that BP would probably try to work something out with these guys before hand, under that scenario. Just makes sense to me. I don't know.

[DFWJC]

In a year like this one--where there is no clear #1 pick--this actually makes sense. This is why they can't trade the pick....everyone else feels the way thay do.

[CATCH17]

So what your saying is everyone is going to pass and Dallas will get McFadden?!

[Cowboy Bill Watts]

The agent for whoever they draft will hold out for number one money.


they could hold out, yes. however, it would not be smart. no team is going to pay the #4 pick #1 $$, no matter the circumstances.

[big dog cowboy]

I guess something needs to be done about the rookie salaries.
That was true years ago. Now it's out of control.

[Hostile]

Trying to use my imagination here.

Miami passes. 10 minutes off the clock.

St. Louis takes Jake Long. 10 and a half minutes off the clock.

Atlanta takes Matt Ryan. 11 minutes off the clock.

Oakland takes Howie's son, Chris Long. 11 and a half minutes off the clock.

Kansas City takes Vernon Gholston. 12 minutes off the clock. Berman's head explodes.

Miami takes Glenn Dorsey. 12 minutes 15 seconds off the clock.

6 picks and one exploded head.





Please let this happen.

[Chocolate Lab]

There's nothing that says any of them have to agree to a contract before the draft. If I were an agent for a top guy, I probably wouldn't. Call their bluff and make them pick you... Then they're under more pressure to sign you to the contract you want.

Miami passes. 10 minutes off the clock.

St. Louis takes Jake Long.

But again... Why would St. Louis or any other team want the #1 pick and the money it will cost any more than Parcells?

[CATCH17]

Trying to use my imagination here.

Miami passes. 10 minutes off the clock.

St. Louis takes Jake Long. 10 and a half minutes off the clock.

Atlanta takes Matt Ryan. 11 minutes off the clock.

Oakland takes Howie's son, Chris Long. 11 and a half minutes off the clock.

Kansas City takes Vernon Gholston. 12 minutes off the clock. Berman's head explodes.

Miami takes Glenn Dorsey. 12 minutes 15 seconds off the clock.

6 picks and one exploded head.





Please let this happen.

So if this happens do all the kids who get invited to New York lose all their face time? lol

[Typhus]

Thats funny you posted this Hos, I was just thinking about this very scenario
about a week ago, and wondering if BP would deploy such a tactic.
Highly likely IMO since there really is no clear cut number 1.
No franchise QB worth the investment, but about 4 others, Dorsey, Gholston,
C. Long, and J. Long, that BP seems to be leaning to.
Actually the trade down option, might increase the further he drops down.
He might have more teams interested if he were sitting at number 3 vs number 1.
Im not even sure what the league rules are in allowing a franchise to pass on multiple draft slots.
Have to check that one.

[Hostile]

Thats funny you posted this Hos, I was just thinking about this very scenario
about a week ago, and wondering if BP would deploy such a tactic.
Highly likely IMO since there really is no clear cut number 1.
No franchise QB worth the investment, but about 4 others, Dorsey, Gholston,
C. Long, and J. Long, that BP seems to be leaning to.
Actually the trade down option, might increase the further he drops down.
He might have more teams interested if he were sitting at number 3 vs number 1.
Im not even sure what the league rules are in allowing a franchise to pass on multiple draft slots.
Have to check that one.Per Colin Cowherd a team can do it and then just like Minnesota did a few years ago the other teams can pick ahead of Miami.

[DFWJC]

There's nothing that says any of them have to agree to a contract before the draft. If I were an agent for a top guy, I probably wouldn't. Call their bluff and make them pick you... Then they're under more pressure to sign you to the contract you want.



But again... Why would St. Louis or any other team want the #1 pick and the money it will cost any more than Parcells?

Only if they have a guy they could separate from the pack enough. We don't know if that's so w/ SL, but it could be.

[Typhus]

Per Colin Cowherd a team can do it and then just like Minnesota did a few years ago the other teams can pick ahead of Miami.

Yes sir, thats understood. Just curious if there is a limit as to how many times a team can pass. I wouldnt think so.

[Chief]

If Hos's scenario happened, Roger Goodell would be on the draft stage looking like a substitute teacher running around trying to get his students under control with spitballs flying and complete mayhem under way.

[Hoofbite]

There's nothing that says any of them have to agree to a contract before the draft. If I were an agent for a top guy, I probably wouldn't. Call their bluff and make them pick you... Then they're under more pressure to sign you to the contract you want.



But again... Why would St. Louis or any other team want the #1 pick and the money it will cost any more than Parcells?

I see what you are saying but STL is picking 2nd. They are going to be paying pretty close to what #1 could cost. Taking the player they want might be worth it to them.

[Typhus]

Ya, I could already see Pac Man nailing him with one from 30 feet out.
Spitball that is. lol

[Arch Stanton]

Read an article earlier along similar lines....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/football/sfl-flspdol13asbapr13,0,7838206.story

[big dog cowboy]

Trying to use my imagination here.

Miami passes. 10 minutes off the clock.

St. Louis takes Jake Long. 10 and a half minutes off the clock.

Atlanta takes Matt Ryan. 11 minutes off the clock.

Oakland takes Howie's son, Chris Long. 11 and a half minutes off the clock.

Kansas City takes Vernon Gholston. 12 minutes off the clock. Berman's head explodes.

Miami takes Glenn Dorsey. 12 minutes 15 seconds off the clock.

6 picks and one exploded head.





Please let this happen.
That is great stuff.

Imagine the gasket Kiper will have blown if things went down like that.

[Big Dakota]

Such a scenario would undermine the entire draft process. If it did it would be the last time, and you notice it hasn't happened since despite the owners griping about the high cost of signing these kids for years now. Sounds nice, but it won't happen.

[Hostile]

If Hos's scenario happened, Roger Goodell would be on the draft stage looking like a substitute teacher running around trying to get his students under control with spitballs flying and complete mayhem under way.Paints a good picture doesn't it?

Combine that with Berman's head exploding and this would be my all time favorite Draft.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'll bet you almost every owner in the league is hoping this happens. This is the tip of the spear that would drive the league to adopt a more reasonable Rookie Salary scale. This is what is needed and has been needed for years. It's rediculous to spend enourmous amounts of money on rookies who have never played a game in there lives. This would help a great deal IMO. Pay the players who have earned the money. This incents players to work as opposed to sit back and collect money once they get a big contract.

I actually hope this happens.

[Typhus]

Such a scenario would undermine the entire draft process. If it did it would be the last time, and you notice it hasn't happened since despite the owners griping about the high cost of signing these kids for years now. Sounds nice, but it won't happen.

Yes, but never say never esp with the Big Tuna sitting on top of it all.
With the guaranteed money off the chart these days fot that pick, I am really surprised that it hasnt happened in recent drafts.

[Hostile]

I'll bet you almost every owner in the league is hoping this happens. This is the tip of the spear that would drive the league to adopt a more reasonable Rookie Salary scale. This is what is needed and has been needed for years. It's rediculous to spend enourmous amounts of money on rookies who have never played a game in there lives. This would help a great deal IMO. Pay the players who have earned the money. This incents players to work as opposed to sit back and collect money once they get a big contract.

I actually hope this happens.This is a really great point.

[StanleySpadowski]

Trying to use my imagination here.

Miami passes. 10 minutes off the clock.

St. Louis takes Jake Long. 10 and a half minutes off the clock.

Atlanta takes Matt Ryan. 11 minutes off the clock.

Oakland takes Howie's son, Chris Long. 11 and a half minutes off the clock.

Kansas City takes Vernon Gholston. 12 minutes off the clock. Berman's head explodes.

Miami takes Glenn Dorsey. 12 minutes 15 seconds off the clock.

6 picks and one exploded head.





Please let this happen.



I think a more likely scenario would be:


Miami passes after 10 minutes

St. Louis says no to paying #1 overall money when #2 money is in the budget so they sit tight for 10 minutes also.

Atlanta sits their pick out also because Ryan isn't worth #1 money...

Oakland doesn't have the cap space to pay #1 money so they sit...

Kansas City doesn't prefer player #1 over player #5 so they sit...

Then there's five or six teams standing around the podium with their cards waiting to see who blinks first.

The first hour of the draft is spent with no one making any picks.


Then the top 6 picks holdout of camp because they want paid in the slot where the team was supposed to draft rather than when they turned in the card or where they were drafted if it's higher...

[Hostile]

Read an article earlier along similar lines....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/football/sfl-flspdol13asbapr13,0,7838206.storyI think this is the article he was working from for his thesis.

[Hostile]

I think a more likely scenario would be:


Miami passes after 10 minutes

St. Louis says no to paying #1 overall money when #2 money is in the budget so they sit tight for 10 minutes also.

Atlanta sits their pick out also because Ryan isn't worth #1 money...

Oakland doesn't have the cap space to pay #1 money so they sit...

Kansas City doesn't prefer player #1 over player #5 so they sit...

Then there's five or six teams standing around the podium with their cards waiting to see who blinks first.

The first hour of the draft is spent with no one making any picks.


Then the top 6 picks holdout of camp because they want paid in the slot where the team was supposed to draft rather than when they turned in the card or where they were drafted if it's higher...Man, what a buzz kill.

[Big Dakota]

Nothing along the lines of rookie salaries will get fixed until the owners have it out with the PA. That will happen in a couple years. I read a piece on the Zone a while back where Jerry said nothing can happen along those lines till this current CBA runs out.

[Future]

Wait, I thought that if you missed your pick, you lost it? I'm taking that if BP doesn't pick in his 10 min time frame, he can just go whenever he wants? Doesn't make sense to me.

[juck]

I could see BP doing this.

[Hostile]

Wait, I thought that if you missed your pick, you lost it? I'm taking that if BP doesn't pick in his 10 min time frame, he can just go whenever he wants? Doesn't make sense to me.Minnesota didn't get skipped completely. They still took a player. They just moved from 7th in the Draft to 9th. It would be the same thing here.

[Star-Fan]

Minnesota didn't get skipped completely. They still took a player. They just moved from 7th in the Draft to 9th. It would be the same thing here.

Hos, or anyone else. Did Minn. end up paying their pick as a 7th or 9th? :confused:

[Hostile]

Hos, or anyone else. Did Minn. end up paying their pick as a 7th or 9th? :confused:9th. The player's agent tried to get him 7th pick money...no soap.

[skinsscalper]

I'll bet you almost every owner in the league is hoping this happens. This is the tip of the spear that would drive the league to adopt a more reasonable Rookie Salary scale. This is what is needed and has been needed for years. It's rediculous to spend enourmous amounts of money on rookies who have never played a game in there lives. This would help a great deal IMO. Pay the players who have earned the money. This incents players to work as opposed to sit back and collect money once they get a big contract.

I actually hope this happens.

A agree with this 100%. It's common knowledge that nothing can be done about the rookie contracts until a new CBA can be reached with the NFLPA. I also think it's one of the big reasons that the owners want to opt out of the current deal.

The worst kept secret in the whole scenario is that the owners feel the players are getting too much of the television revenue pie. The whole problem is compounded when they are basically forced to sign these young kids who have never even sniffed a pro football field to more money than the majority of league stars are making.

The veterans, you would think, should be all over this rookie contracts restructuring thing. Many of these rookie contracts are the catalyst that ships these veterans out the door and looking for work on June 1st. The money just isn't there in many cases.

At this point the only thing that these owners can do (until the end of the season) is to stage their own coup at the NFL draft, spotlighting the absurdity of the current rookie contract structure. Staging a protest without saying a word. Do I think it would happen? Not a chance. But it would make for some very interesting sports commentary for a good month or so.

The owners do have to take a little blame in this whole scenario, though. It's not like they are working under a system that they didn't already agree to.

[iceberg]

They can't win if they do.

sure they can. the agent will argue all over the place that miami had the 1st round pick and got who they wanted. that's the agents job. what this really does is set yourself up for a major negotiating headache. if bp is really that much of a genious, why put yourself through that?

like someone else said - just swap with someone in the 4-5 range and collect a later round pick and do it "right". but would atlanta or oakland really *want* to move into that same $$$ neighborhood?

till a rookie cap is in place no one wants a top 4-5 pick anymore. too costly.

[iceberg]

9th. The player's agent tried to get him 7th pick money...no soap.

any of these players managed by the postons? just seems like a stupid thing to do knowing it's going to cause an argument later.

[iceberg]

I think a more likely scenario would be:


Miami passes after 10 minutes

St. Louis says no to paying #1 overall money when #2 money is in the budget so they sit tight for 10 minutes also.

Atlanta sits their pick out also because Ryan isn't worth #1 money...

Oakland doesn't have the cap space to pay #1 money so they sit...

Kansas City doesn't prefer player #1 over player #5 so they sit...

Then there's five or six teams standing around the podium with their cards waiting to see who blinks first.

The first hour of the draft is spent with no one making any picks.


Then the top 6 picks holdout of camp because they want paid in the slot where the team was supposed to draft rather than when they turned in the card or where they were drafted if it's higher...

makes you wonder how far down it would go. then as soon as one team blinks it's like a mad-dash race to the podium with your card so you don't lose your own player.

[aikemirv]

I think a team would be better off just negotiating with the top 4 guys and see who is the most reasonable. If I was Gholston who was slated to be taken 4th or 5th, I would certainly give them a discount if they wanted to make me the first pick in the draft.

The endorsement deal alone ( for being #1)would make up for the shortfall!

[HoosierCowboy]

if you pass, what determines where you get back in:confused:

[ABQCOWBOY]

sure they can. the agent will argue all over the place that miami had the 1st round pick and got who they wanted. that's the agents job. what this really does is set yourself up for a major negotiating headache. if bp is really that much of a genious, why put yourself through that?

like someone else said - just swap with someone in the 4-5 range and collect a later round pick and do it "right". but would atlanta or oakland really *want* to move into that same $$$ neighborhood?

till a rookie cap is in place no one wants a top 4-5 pick anymore. too costly.

Well, somebody is going to jump up and take it. I mean, if your a team who needs a Franchise QB or a Franchise LT, your going to move up and take it because they are cornerstone positions. When you have an opportunity to get them, you have to take them. If anything, I'd imagine that there would be a run on safe positions. Teams who needed LTs would take them IMO. Teams who needed a certain player to get them over the top would take them. Imagine the Cowboys having an opportunity to move up and grab a player like Gholston to match with Ware. I don't see any way that we wouldn't move up to pick a player like that. JMO

[aikemirv]

if you pass, what determines where you get back in:confused:

You put the card in whenever you want!

[CrazyCowboy]

funny stuff......they will not do it.

[JPM]

if you pass, what determines where you get back in:confused:
You can hand in your card anytime. It can be two picks or the pick right after.

[ThatsmyQB]

What he simply should do is this, sit all 4 players (make sure Players know this) and agents in a room and simply say, WHOEVER wants to sign for the least amount of money is gonna be the #1 overall pick!
Now I don't know how much differnece money wise it is form the #1 overall to the #2 or #4 overall, but I'm sure if a guy liek Gholston feels he might fall to #4 or worse overall, why not tkae #2 money AND have the honor and prestige of being the #1 overall pick on top of it?
Adrian Peterson was drafted #7 overall, how much money did he get at #7?
I'm sure if the team with the #1 overall pick said we'll draft you #1 overall and pay you #3 overall money, looking back Peterson would do it in a HEARTBEAT!

[Angus]

So what your saying is everyone is going to pass and Dallas will get McFadden?!

Not necessary.

Miami needs to blow off Jimmy Johnson's draft chart and get the best deal it can. For example, without regard to points, it could accept a Dallas offer of a number one this year and another next year, plus a player, for Miami's number one this year. Jerry Jones gets his ball carrier without paying more and Parcells gets picks he can use to trade back up to a player he wants if he wishes.

No need to "pass."

:star:

[Chocolate Lab]

Well, somebody is going to jump up and take it. I mean, if your a team who needs a Franchise QB or a Franchise LT, your going to move up and take it because they are cornerstone positions. When you have an opportunity to get them, you have to take them.
Miami needs both of those...

[CaptainAmerica]

This was discussed a while back. The problem is they can't do it because the agents say that when Miami makes their selection that player will take the position that he should be paid as the #1 pick. It's not going to happen.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Miami needs both of those...


I agree. If I were Miami, I would take Gholston and never look back.

[zeromaster]

Not necessary.

Miami needs to blow off Jimmy Johnson's draft chart and get the best deal it can. For example, without regard to points, it could accept a Dallas offer of a number one this year and another next year, plus a player, for Miami's number one this year. Jerry Jones gets his ball carrier without paying more and Parcells gets picks he can use to trade back up to a player he wants if he wishes.

No need to "pass."

:star:
Besides the money needed for the number one pick, I hope the Boys never again trade two number 1's (not to mention a player) for anyone again, ever.

It just reeks of desperation.

jmo

[Hostile]

This was discussed a while back. The problem is they can't do it because the agents say that when Miami makes their selection that player will take the position that he should be paid as the #1 pick. It's not going to happen.Nope.



From the South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Could the Dolphins' No. 1 pick be no one? (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-flspdol13asbapr13,0,747785.story)


By Harvey Fialkov | South Florida Sun-Sentinel April 13, 2008 Article tools
http://m1.2mdn.net/viewad/817-grey.gif (http://ad.doubleclick.net/click;h=v8/36a2/0/0/%2a/v;44306;0-0;0;12928293;21-88/31;0/0/0;;~okv=;ptype=s;slug=sfl-flspdol13asbapr13;rg=ur;ref=cowboyszonecom;pos=1;s z=88x31;tile=2;~aopt=2/0/ff/1;~sscs=%3f)

Just imagine, NFL (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/football/national-football-league-ORSPT000007.topic) Commissioner Roger Goodell walking to the podium on April 26 at about 3:10 p.m., and he says, "With the first pick of the draft the Dolphins (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/football/miami-dolphins-ORSPT000189.topic) ..." Tick. Tick. Tick. ... Silence.

"The Dolphins pass and the Rams are now on the clock," Goodell continues.

OK, it's highly unlikely that the Dolphins will pass on the overall first draft pick, but what if?

In fact, it's never been done before, intentionally that is. The Vikings inadvertently dropped from No. 7 to No. 9 in the 2003 draft when a trade discussion with the Ravens (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/football/baltimore-ravens-ORSPT000161.topic) caused their time to elapse.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed that it is a legal maneuver, and that any team can pass on their pick without any penalty. He also said that team could then jump in front of any team that has a later pick.

Why would the Dolphins ever contemplate such an outlandish maneuver? Simple. They're a 1-15 team with more holes to fill than a Manhattan street.

"We need linebackers, we need secondary players, we need receivers, we need linemen. We need a bunch of things right now," coach Tony Sparano said recently.

Also, the Dolphins have the top pick of a draft with no clear-cut difference-maker who would be worth a potential $60 million contract, including a signing bonus around $35 million. The consensus top six players of the draft who have been invited to the proceedings at Radio City Music Hall (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/entertainment/music/radio-city-music-hall-PLENT000223.topic) in New York are: Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan, Michigan tackle Jake Long, Virginia defensive end Chris Long, LSU defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey, Arkansas running back Darren McFadden and Ohio State linebacker Vernon Gholston.

All have upsides and downsides.

"I wouldn't think it would be an intelligent move, no," said former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf, a friend of Dolphins vice president of football operations Bill Parcells. "I don't know why anybody would do that.

"It puts a negative spin on your organization. You're trying to be positive. Miami has the first pick. They've got a whole new regime there. ... The object is to get a good player so that you can compete and be representative in a very short period or someone else will be sitting in your chair."

If the Dolphins purposely slid to No. 4, they could save approximately $12 million in guaranteed cash, based on what the Raiders gave quarterback JaMarcus Russell at No. 1 last year vs. what the fourth pick — defensive end Gaines Adams — received.

"Goodell would shove his foot up the butts of [GM] Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells [if that happened]," said an agent who wished to remain anonymous. "It's absolutely atrocious. It makes a mockery of the draft process and of the collective-bargaining agreement. ... I think it's beyond realistic, and I'd advise against any team doing it. If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."

The team with the top pick is permitted to sign a player before the draft, and the Dolphins have already begun negotiations with the agents of Jake Long and Gholston. So they do appear to be honing in on their selection.

If the Dolphins did shock the NFL establishment by taking a pass, the league could mandate that teams forfeit the pick if they didn't use it.

"It would be detrimental to the league and force them to change the rule," said retired NFL executive Tom Braatz. "The first pick has always been so valuable that everybody tries to trade up. This is the first year nobody wants it."

Such a move could push the NFL and NFLPA to amend a rookie scale that creates instant millionaires out of untested players while teams cut established veterans so they could get under the salary cap.

Parcells has had the top pick twice before. In 1993, he was coaching the Patriots and selected quarterback Drew Bledsoe (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/drew-bledsoe-PESPT000650.topic), who guided New England to a Super Bowl (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/football/super-bowl-EVSPR000004.topic) berth four years later. In 1997 with the Jets, Parcells traded down twice from No. 1 to 6 to 8 and took linebacker James Farrior (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/james-farrior-PESPT002172.topic), who didn't blossom until he was with the Steelers (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/pittsburgh-steelers-ORSPT000055.topic). The Rams ended up with future Hall of Fame tackle Orlando Pace (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/orlando-pace-PESPT005612.topic) at No. 1.

"There's no value in doing that," said agent Leigh Steinberg, who has represented eight No. 1 picks. "The Chargers in 2004 made a tremendous trade, getting rid of a player they didn't want in [No. 1] Eli Manning (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/eli-manning-PESPT008423.topic) for [No. 4] Philip Rivers, and he got a bundle for it. There still could be somebody who covets Bill's place ..."

Because of the signing bonus, finding a suitable trade partner for the pick or passing on it would be as realistic as watching defensive end Jason Taylor (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/sports/football/jason-taylor-PESPT008445.topic) dance on television in a pink tutu.

Oops.

"It's not going to happen," agent David Cantor said. "The Dolphins owe it to their fans to have a decisive, rock-solid 100 percent consensus on a player to become the face of this franchise, and that's what they're going to do."

[big dog cowboy]

This was discussed a while back. The problem is they can't do it because the agents say that when Miami makes their selection that player will take the position that he should be paid as the #1 pick. It's not going to happen.

Hos, or anyone else. Did Minn. end up paying their pick as a 7th or 9th? :confused:

9th. The player's agent tried to get him 7th pick money...no soap.
Interesting........

[ABQCOWBOY]

This was discussed a while back. The problem is they can't do it because the agents say that when Miami makes their selection that player will take the position that he should be paid as the #1 pick. It's not going to happen. I think that a player probably would hold out but in the end, I don't think they would get the money. In the end, Miami would likely still pay less for the player then what they would have had they taken them #1.

[adamknite]

I've got a question, what would happen if say... Miami did that (passing on their pick), and they had no problem with it, all the other teams are just making their picks.

Could they still trade their pick?

Say they've fallen down to where Oakland is on the clock, and they decide they'd take an offer from Dallas for a bunch of picks so Dallas can draft DMac. Oakland doesn't feel like they're in rush, and thinks the mentioned scenario is going to play out where Miami drafts one of the guys on their list now that they dont' have to pay #1 money. However now Dallas has the pick and gets their card in before Oakland(who was ready to draft Dmac) is something like that possible?

FYI: I just used that hypethetical scenario because it seemed like one that most people would understand what I'm talking about. This isn't a "OMG, this is how we are going to get Dmac" post.

[CaptainAmerica]

Nope.



"Goodell would shove his foot up the butts of [GM] Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells ," said an agent who wished to remain anonymous. "It's absolutely atrocious. It makes a mockery of the draft process and of the collective-bargaining agreement. ... I think it's beyond realistic, and I'd advise against any team doing it. If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."



"[I]It's not going to happen," agent David Cantor said. "The Dolphins owe it to their fans to have a decisive, rock-solid 100 percent consensus on a player to become the face of this franchise, and that's what they're going to do."


Sorry Hos, but what does "nope" mean? The article you cite makes the exact point I mentioned.

"If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."

Just because Miami could do it doesn't mean tough, experienced, skilled agents like Condon are going to sit back and take it. The last thing Miami wants is a hold out and a protracted contract battle because they pulled a stunt to try and save $$.

[Sarge]

If that happens, then the system officially needs fixing.

Bad teams should covet the first pick. I guess something needs to be done about the rookie salaries.

We have a winner here! Perhaps substantial penalties for not getting the pick in on time?

[Hostile]

Sorry Hos, but what does "nope" mean? The article you cite makes the exact point I mentioned.

"If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."

Just because Miami could do it doesn't mean tough, experienced, skilled agents like Condon are going to sit back and take it. The last thing Miami wants is a hold out and a protracted contract battle because they pulled a stunt to try and save $$.Read the first part I bolded.

[Manwiththeplan]

The agent for whoever they draft will hold out for number one money.

exactly, and the dolphins would end up caving. This would be pretty bad for the league if this happened.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry Hos, but what does "nope" mean? The article you cite makes the exact point I mentioned.

"If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."

Just because Miami could do it doesn't mean tough, experienced, skilled agents like Condon are going to sit back and take it. The last thing Miami wants is a hold out and a protracted contract battle because they pulled a stunt to try and save $$.


On the contrary. That's exactly what Miami wants. They want to be financially responsible with the player they pick. They are looking at a long range view of this IMO. I mean, there comes a point where the player has to report. They can't just sit out. Does it screw up there development cycle? Sure it does but that's the chance you take right? At the end of the day, all the leverage is on the side of the team, not the player. Eventually, if the club really wants to stick to it, the player has to sign.

[CaptainAmerica]

Read the first part I bolded.

I did. Of course the Fins could do it, but the last part of the article explains exactly what I said in my first post, that it's not that simple. The agent for the player they eventually selected is not going to accept less than #1 pick money if the Fins pulled a stunt and passed on the pick.

[CATCH17]

exactly, and the dolphins would end up caving. This would be pretty bad for the league if this happened.

Teams have not signed players before for one reason or another.

As stubborn as Parcells is it wouldn't shock me if he did not sign the player.

[DFWJC]

I've got a question, what would happen if say... Miami did that (passing on their pick), and they had no problem with it, all the other teams are just making their picks.

Could they still trade their pick?

Say they've fallen down to where Oakland is on the clock, and they decide they'd take an offer from Dallas for a bunch of picks so Dallas can draft DMac. Oakland doesn't feel like they're in rush, and thinks the mentioned scenario is going to play out where Miami drafts one of the guys on their list now that they dont' have to pay #1 money. However now Dallas has the pick and gets their card in before Oakland(who was ready to draft Dmac) is something like that possible?

FYI: I just used that hypethetical scenario because it seemed like one that most people would understand what I'm talking about. This isn't a "OMG, this is how we are going to get Dmac" post.

Sure, Miami could trade it. It's just that the value of the pick would drop after each selection is made ahead of them. As for your scenario, I would think Dallas could step in ahead of Oakland, but I'm not sure what the timing would have to be.

[Hostile]

I did. Of course the Fins could do it, but the last part of the article explains exactly what I said in my first post, that it's not that simple. The agent for the player they eventually selected is not going to accept less than #1 pick money if the Fins pulled a stunt and passed on the pick.By all means then, please explain to me why when Minnesota did it they paid the guy they slected as the #9 pick, not the #7 Pick, which is where they were originally slotted to select. The agents can scream and wail all they want. The only thing that matters is "where were you selected?"

Just like the guy the Dolphins take at 32 this year is not going to get 1st round money just because New England got stripped.

[iceberg]

By all means then, please explain to me why when Minnesota did it they paid the guy they slected as the #9 pick, not the #7. The agents can scream and wail all they want/ The only thing that matters is where were you selected.

for minny though, i don't think it was intentional. to intentionally do it while legal, would likely set objects in motion that don't need to be.

from your own article:
"Goodell would shove his foot up the butts of [GM] Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells [if that happened]," said an agent who wished to remain anonymous. "It's absolutely atrocious. It makes a mockery of the draft process and of the collective-bargaining agreement. ... I think it's beyond realistic, and I'd advise against any team doing it. If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."

The team with the top pick is permitted to sign a player before the draft, and the Dolphins have already begun negotiations with the agents of Jake Long and Gholston. So they do appear to be honing in on their selection.

If the Dolphins did shock the NFL establishment by taking a pass, the league could mandate that teams forfeit the pick if they didn't use it.

"It would be detrimental to the league and force them to change the rule," said retired NFL executive Tom Braatz. "The first pick has always been so valuable that everybody tries to trade up. This is the first year nobody wants it."
-----

like i said - it's cute and likely only to cause a lot of problems. just make the trade affordable to whoever wants it (no one in this case) and move down.

[Hostile]

for minny though, i don't think it was intentional. to intentionally do it while legal, would likely set objects in motion that don't need to be.

from your own article:
"Goodell would shove his foot up the butts of [GM] Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells [if that happened]," said an agent who wished to remain anonymous. "It's absolutely atrocious. It makes a mockery of the draft process and of the collective-bargaining agreement. ... I think it's beyond realistic, and I'd advise against any team doing it. If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."Not a league official.

The team with the top pick is permitted to sign a player before the draft, and the Dolphins have already begun negotiations with the agents of Jake Long and Gholston. So they do appear to be honing in on their selection.

If the Dolphins did shock the NFL establishment by taking a pass, the league could mandate that teams forfeit the pick if they didn't use it.Read Greg Aiello's (he actually works for the NFL) quote at the top of the article. Doesn't sound like they would to me.

"It would be detrimental to the league and force them to change the rule," said retired NFL executive Tom Braatz. "The first pick has always been so valuable that everybody tries to trade up. This is the first year nobody wants it."Exactly and notice he doesn't say it is impossible or improbable.

like i said - it's cute and likely only to cause a lot of problems. just make the trade affordable to whoever wants it (no one in this case) and move down.I think it would be incredibly smart, not cute. Since they can't make a trade they can get one of the guys they want and not shovel money down the chimney.

[iceberg]

Not a league official.

Read Greg Aiello's (he actually works for the NFL) quote at the top of the article. Doesn't sound like they would to me.

Exactly and notice he doesn't say it is impossible or improbable.

I think it would be incredibly smart, not cute. Since they can't make a trade they can get one of the guys they want and not shovel money down the chimney.

no, i get what you're saying hos. but i'm with the unnamed official who's making his/her own educated guess. if miami really wants to not put itself in a potentially bad situation, trade down now and get it over with. if they do it it will certainly be entertaining to see what happens next, but my own belief is it will cause a lot of pain across the league and be a forum topic in the line of pacman that will never die and have a dozen threads opened a day to talk about it.

my main theory in life is if you don't want bad things to happen to you, don't put yourself in a position where they're likely to. like, doing this.

maybe he does it and no one cares and everyone gets along just fine. i just think it's taking a risk you don't need to take.

[ABQCOWBOY]

for minny though, i don't think it was intentional. to intentionally do it while legal, would likely set objects in motion that don't need to be.

from your own article:
"Goodell would shove his foot up the butts of [GM] Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells [if that happened]," said an agent who wished to remain anonymous. "It's absolutely atrocious. It makes a mockery of the draft process and of the collective-bargaining agreement. ... I think it's beyond realistic, and I'd advise against any team doing it. If it was my client they took at No. 5, I would want first overall pick money or my kid's not reporting to training camp."

The team with the top pick is permitted to sign a player before the draft, and the Dolphins have already begun negotiations with the agents of Jake Long and Gholston. So they do appear to be honing in on their selection.

If the Dolphins did shock the NFL establishment by taking a pass, the league could mandate that teams forfeit the pick if they didn't use it.

"It would be detrimental to the league and force them to change the rule," said retired NFL executive Tom Braatz. "The first pick has always been so valuable that everybody tries to trade up. This is the first year nobody wants it."
-----

like i said - it's cute and likely only to cause a lot of problems. just make the trade affordable to whoever wants it (no one in this case) and move down.


But that's kind of the point right? If this were to happen, it would simply be a matter of the market correcting itself. This is what happens when you force teams to pay more for unproven players then proven ones.

I mean, the other side to this is that if this ultimatly provided a solution for the pain the owners haveing to paying too high a salary for 1st round picks, then perhaps that situation gets corrected and the result is an avoidence of a strike. I mean, this does not necessarily represent a negative thing. The truth is that this has been a problem for some time. Sooner or later, it's going to explode if it does not get corrected.

In a strike, the players will lose out. They always have and they always will because that's how the financial aspects of these kinds of things work. Owners have more money and can afford to wait longer before the food starts disappearing off the table. If the players get to that point, then the owners will simply enjoy a position of advantage and get even more from the players then they would have if they struck an agreement.

[Hostile]

no, i get what you're saying hos. but i'm with the unnamed official who's making his/her own educated guess. if miami really wants to not put itself in a potentially bad situation, trade down now and get it over with. if they do it it will certainly be entertaining to see what happens next, but my own belief is it will cause a lot of pain across the league and be a forum topic in the line of pacman that will never die and have a dozen threads opened a day to talk about it.

my main theory in life is if you don't want bad things to happen to you, don't put yourself in a position where they're likely to. like, doing this.

maybe he does it and no one cares and everyone gets along just fine. i just think it's taking a risk you don't need to take.How do you trade down if no one wants to trade up?

[CaptainAmerica]

By all means then, please explain to me why when Minnesota did it they paid the guy they slected as the #9 pick, not the #7 Pick, which is where they were originally slotted to select. The agents can scream and wail all they want. The only thing that matters is "where were you selected?"

Just like the guy the Dolphins take at 32 this year is not going to get 1st round money just because New England got stripped.

The big difference in the 2 situations is intent. As I recall the Minnesota situation, they didn't do it with the intent to circumvent the system. The Vikings screwed up and let the time run off and other teams jumped in front of them.

Of course, if the Fins waited several picks and selected a player not in the top tier of prospects the situation would be different. But if they try and pick anywhere in the top 5, the agents have made it clear the Fins would be in for a long, protracted contract battle. I doubt that's the way Parells wants to do business. Say what you want about him but he does respect the NFL and the system.

[Hostile]

The big difference in the 2 situations is intent. As I recall the Minnesota situation, they didn't do it with the intent to circumvent the system. The Vikings screwed up and let the time run off and other teams jumped in front of them.

Of course, if the Fins waited several picks and selected a player not in the top tier of prospects the situation would be different. But if they try and pick anywhere in the top 5, the agents have made it clear the Fins would be in for a long, protracted contract battle. I doubt that's the way Parells wants to do business. Say what you want about him but he does respect the NFL and the system.Intent has nothing to do with it. Greg Aiello made that clear.

"NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed that it is a legal maneuver, and that any team can pass on their pick without any penalty. He also said that team could then jump in front of any team that has a later pick."

[BraveHeartFan]

It would make interesting TV but it would be a very risky move. If they wanted to sit and wait, 3 or 4 picks to see who might go, they could wind up screwing themselves if the guys they want are all snatched up by teams raring to go and then they've moved down, like the wanted, but got none of the players they wanted.

It would probably be a long shot that they'd miss out on all 4 players...but it's a risk that they would.

[iceberg]

How do you trade down if no one wants to trade up?

i imagine he can trade down to teams who want someone in the top 5 and yes, there's a risk to trading down past 5 or 6. bigger as you fall more. i think they should just make the pick and be done with it or trade it for best deal they can. it's just my opinion gaming the system like this will cause a huge backlash.

maybe it's needed though. maybe this will force a cap on what a rookie can expect and that alone can do wonders for helping the league out in my own opinion.

[Hostile]

i imagine he can trade down to teams who want someone in the top 5 and yes, there's a risk to trading down past 5 or 6. bigger as you fall more. i think they should just make the pick and be done with it or trade it for best deal they can. it's just my opinion gaming the system like this will cause a huge backlash.

maybe it's needed though. maybe this will force a cap on what a rookie can expect and that alone can do wonders for helping the league out in my own opinion.Sometimes backlash is a good thing.

Or as Inspector Kemp said.

"An riot is an Ugly thing, and I think it is about time we had one."

Sorry I can't type his accent.

[jackrussell]

Let's see....screwing the guy that's going to go to work for you right off the bat...oh yes, that'd be excellent. They'd surely be a happy camper and be a real team player by golly!

hey Jake, we're going to make you the cornerstone of our team, to help lead us in a new direction...the beginning of a new era, but first jake...we're going to put the screws to you...no hard feelings, ok buddy?

See you in camp.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The big difference in the 2 situations is intent. As I recall the Minnesota situation, they didn't do it with the intent to circumvent the system. The Vikings screwed up and let the time run off and other teams jumped in front of them.

Of course, if the Fins waited several picks and selected a player not in the top tier of prospects the situation would be different. But if they try and pick anywhere in the top 5, the agents have made it clear the Fins would be in for a long, protracted contract battle. I doubt that's the way Parells wants to do business. Say what you want about him but he does respect the NFL and the system.



Unless there is specific language that says this is an offense that is punishable, I don't believe that the League can or will do much. Lets remember that the Commishioner is probably more sympathetic to the owners then to the players.

I know that in the old days, this was not uncommen. Teams would occasionally intentionally skip picks. This is not new to the NFL. It's just not something that most of us have seen in the recent history of the league.

[iceberg]

Let's see....screwing the guy that's going to go to work for you right off the bat...oh yes, that'd be excellent. They'd surely be a happy camper and be a real team player by golly!

hey Jake, we're going to make you the cornerstone of our team, to help lead us in a new direction...the beginning of a new era, but first jake...we're going to put the screws to you...no hard feelings, ok buddy?

See you in camp.

another valid risk.

[CaptainAmerica]

Intent has nothing to do with it. Greg Aiello made that clear.

"NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed that it is a legal maneuver, and that any team can pass on their pick without any penalty. He also said that team could then jump in front of any team that has a later pick."

I'm not talking about the league. Like I said, of course they could do it. I'm talking about the agent for the player they eventually pick. That's what makes the situation different than the Minnesota situation.

I understand the concept as a point of discussion, but as Ron Wolf (Parcells' buddy) made clear with his comments, it's simply bad business.

I wouldn't think it would be an intelligent move, no," said former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf, a friend of Dolphins vice president of football operations Bill Parcells. "I don't know why anybody would do that.

"It puts a negative spin on your organization. You're trying to be positive. Miami has the first pick. They've got a whole new regime there. ... The object is to get a good player so that you can compete and be representative in a very short period or someone else will be sitting in your chair."

[Hostile]

Let's see....screwing the guy that's going to go to work for you right off the bat...oh yes, that'd be excellent. They'd surely be a happy camper and be a real team player by golly!

hey Jake, we're going to make you the cornerstone of our team, to help lead us in a new direction...the beginning of a new era, but first jake...we're going to put the screws to you...no hard feelings, ok buddy?

See you in camp.You mean like Dallas did when they traded down and still took Roy Williams so they could sign him for less money? Or when they did it agains to Anthony Spencer?

[iceberg]

You mean like Dallas did when they traded down and still took Roy Williams so they could sign him for less money? Or when they did it agains to Anthony Spencer?

but they traded down and took the risk their player would still be there.

they didn't game the system to avoid paying the money, they traded down to get the player where they thought they could and they would go.

[Hostile]

I'm not talking about the league. Like I said, of course they could do it. I'm talking about the agent for the player they eventually pick. That's what makes the situation different than the Minnesota situation.

I understand the concept as a point of discussion, but as Ron Wolf (Parcells' buddy) made clear with his comments, it's simply bad business.

I wouldn't think it would be an intelligent move, no," said former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf, a friend of Dolphins vice president of football operations Bill Parcells. "I don't know why anybody would do that.

"It puts a negative spin on your organization. You're trying to be positive. Miami has the first pick. They've got a whole new regime there. ... The object is to get a good player so that you can compete and be representative in a very short period or someone else will be sitting in your chair."I think some would view it that way. I think others would see the savings in signing bonus alone, know that Miami got one of the 4 picks they wanted anyway, and be giddy about it.

The sword cuts both ways.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Let's see....screwing the guy that's going to go to work for you right off the bat...oh yes, that'd be excellent. They'd surely be a happy camper and be a real team player by golly!

hey Jake, we're going to make you the cornerstone of our team, to help lead us in a new direction...the beginning of a new era, but first jake...we're going to put the screws to you...no hard feelings, ok buddy?

See you in camp.


Well, as in anything, there are two sides. The Vets may look at this as positive thing. After all, it would mean that Vet players would probably get more money to play. The NFL has changed a great deal in the last 20 years but one thing that has not changed is the fact that Sr. players still hold sway in the locker room. Vets still tell rookies where to carry there bags to. I mean, at the end of the day, the cap is still the cap. You have x amount of dollars to spend and you can't exceed that. Money that is saved in signing a rookie pick is eventually spent on Vet extensions or bringing in Vets who can help win.

[Hostile]

but they traded down and took the risk their player would still be there.

they didn't game the system to avoid paying the money, they traded down to get the player where they thought they could and they would go.They still had already told the player he was their guy, then moved back so they could pay him less.

[Hoofbite]

I really don't think there is anything that the player or agent could do. Don't play if 20 million isn't good enough. Seeya.

But just for fun.......

Lets say it did happen. Miami drops back to 4 and takes the guy they want. Anyone think that any of the players who were officially taken at #1, #2 or #3 are going to step forward and say:

"You know what, Miami actually had the 1st pick so you should probably consider me to be taken 1 pick later and pay me less".

Not a chance in hell.

I like the move and hope they make it. Its smart. If the league doesn't want to do anything about the crazy amounts rookies are getting, leave it up to the teams to get the job done.


And here. This one is from the deepest parts of my conspiracy bag for all you conspiracy lovers out there.

Bill isn't actually planning on moving back. Hes doing Jerry a favor and trying to scare a certain high-paying Silver and Black team into thinking they will be paying more for their pick. Hows that for a monkey wrench in your plans Al. You thought you were going to be paying "X" amount for your pick, here try to pay for a little more. Bet you wished you hadn't gone out and paid out the butt for all that marginal talent. Meanwhile Jerry sits, he waits knowing that sooner or later Al is going to come through those doors on his Rascal Motor Scooter and beg for some sort relief. "Oh, trade with me, please" says the drooling old corpse. "I'll take anything, I don't care what it is. Package me up a 1st rounder of yours and throw in Coakley and you have yourself a deal"

[Hostile]

I really don't think there is anything that the player or agent could do. Don't play if 20 million isn't good enough. Seeya.

But just for fun.......

Lets say it did happen. Miami drops back to 4 and takes the guy they want. Anyone think that any of the players who were officially taken at #1, #2 or #3 are going to step forward and say:

"You know what, Miami actually had the 1st pick so you should probably consider me to be taken 1 pick later and pay me less".

Not a chance in hell.

I like the move and hope they make it. Its smart. If the league doesn't want to do anything about the crazy amounts rookies are getting, leave it up to the teams to get the job done.


And here. This one is from the deepest parts of my conspiracy bag for all you conspiracy lovers out there.

Bill isn't actually planning on moving back. Hes doing Jerry a favor and trying to scare a certain high-paying Silver and Black team into thinking they will be paying more for their pick. Hows that for a monkey wrench in your plans Al. You thought you were going to be paying "X" amount for your pick, here try to pay for a little more. Bet you wished you hadn't gone out and paid out the butt for all that marginal talent. Meanwhile Jerry sits, he waits knowing that sooner or later Al is going to come through those doors on his Rascal Motor Scooter and beg for some sort relief. "Oh, trade with me, please" says the drooling old corpse. "I'll take anything, I don't care what it is. Package me up a 1st rounder of yours and throw in Coakley and you have yourself a deal"Exactly right. If they never sign, they go back into the Draft and get picked lower. All they accomplish by their tantrum is to get less.

[Hoofbite]

I think some would view it that way. I think others would see the savings in signing bonus alone, know that Miami got one of the 4 picks they wanted anyway, and be giddy about it.

The sword cuts both ways.

Who cares what people thought of it. Since when has public perception ever been Bill's motive? He does what he wants and if you don't like it, tough.

Im praying for the move because like you said, it would be chaos and I want to see unfold.

[Hostile]

Who cares what people thought of it. Since when has public perception ever been Bill's motive? He does what he wants and if you don't like, tough.

Im praying for the move because like you said, it would be chaos and I want to see unfold.Especially the part about Berman's head exploding.

[adamknite]

Agents are always trying to find ways to justify wanting more money. Remember when Phillip Rivers was holding out for 1st overall pick money, even though he was drafted at 4 by the Giants?

Miami shouldn't let what an agent might do hinder them from doing what they think is best for their team. The agent is going to try and milk as much cash from them as he possibly can regardless of how the Dolphins get to the 4th overall pick.

Just my two cents.

[CaptainAmerica]

I think some would view it that way. I think others would see the savings in signing bonus alone, know that Miami got one of the 4 picks they wanted anyway, and be giddy about it.

The sword cuts both ways.

I never said they couldn't do it. I actually brought it up in a thread a few months ago as a "what if". But the point of my argument today is that it's easy for us to discuss it on a message board. But, being the GM of the team with the #1 pick and trying to circumvent the system (because you simply don't want to pay a player #1 money and you can't get another team to take your position) with the League, the Player's Association and the media looking over your shoulder is an entirely different world.

[Hostile]

Agents are always trying to find ways to justify wanting more money. Remember when Phillip Rivers was holding out for 1st overall pick money, even though he was drafted at 4 by the Giants?

Miami shouldn't let what an agent might do hinder them from doing what they think is best for their team. The agent is going to try and milk as much cash from them as he possibly can regardless of how the Dolphins get to the 4th overall pick.

Just my two cents.Yep. I also remember when our new Secondary Assistant Coach was drafted by the Saints as the first pick of the 2nd round (I believe) and his agent was negotiating with Jim Finks and saying he deserved 1st round money because he was better than some of the guys taken and New Orleans own draft board had him higher than those guys so they valued him more.

I remember Finks response was something like, "let's get real here, he was taken in the 2nd round."

[Hostile]

I never said they couldn't do it. I actually brought it up in a thread a few months ago as a "what if". But the point of my argument today is that it's easy for us to discuss it on a message board. But, being the GM of the team with the #1 pick and trying to circumvent the system (because you simply don't want to pay a player #1 money and you can't get another team to take your position) with the League, the Player's Association and the media looking over your shoulder is an entirely different world.Again...Greg Aiello's quote.

I get what you're trying to say, I just don't see it that way.

[ABQCOWBOY]

but they traded down and took the risk their player would still be there.

they didn't game the system to avoid paying the money, they traded down to get the player where they thought they could and they would go.


To me, the most important thing any young player can learn is that this is about business. It's not personal. If it were personal, then said player would never be on a teams draft board. Now, having said that, it doesn't mean that it will not be viewed as such by the player. I guess the bottom line is that the player has to play if they want to get paid. I mean, if you look at this, all it means is that Rookie players would be able to look forward to the second contract more because theoretically, there should be more money available for them on there second contract.

[jackrussell]

Hey whatever trips your trigger on how you want to build a relationship with your employees, more power to ya. At least you'll know where that biting sensation on your arse in a couple years is coming from.

But if anyone thinks this is going to do anything with the rookie's salary, St. Louis is the team that will be paying the #1 money, so nothing's changed.

[Hoofbite]

Heres something else. The 4 guys that Miami would be happy with will not go before the 5th pick. One of them will last past 4, hell 2 of them might if ATL takes a QB and OAK takes DMC.

If Bill is serious about making that move, it wouldn't shock me to see those kids' agents start getting ahold of Bill to work a deal. #4 overall money is a lot more then #6 or #7 or where ever they might go.

It could easily go that route and work out for everyone.....everyone except ATL, STL and OAK I suppose.

[CaptainAmerica]

Again...Greg Aiello's quote.

I get what you're trying to say, I just don't see it that way.

Again, I don't disagree with you, in theory. I actually agree with the concept, in theory, of not making the pick.

But the reality is the Dolphins clearly would be looked at by the league as trying to undermine "the system" and you just can't get away with those kind of bush-league tactics. If a team wants to move down, fine.
But find a trade partner and make a trade, just like Jerry did with Roy Williams.

But holding the #1 pick and simply not picking would be a public relations disaster for the NFL. Goodell would rip Parcells and the entire Fins ownership a new one if they pulled a stunt like that. That's why Ron Wolf said what he said.

[tvooz]

the consensus top picks for this year's draft are

c. long
j. long
v. gholston
g. dorsey
m. ryan
d. mcfadden

only those six have been invited to the nfl draft.

suppose the top pick in this year's draft should to get money comparable to last year's #1 pick, but on the way to the draft all 6 die in a bus crash. would the next best player still get money comparable to last year's #1 pick since someone has to be chosen first overall?

ask yourself if leodis mckelvin or ryan clady is worth $35M guaranteed?

[jackrussell]

the consensus top picks for this year's draft are

c. long
j. long
v. gholston
g. dorsey
m. ryan
d. mcfadden

only those six have been invited to the nfl draft.

suppose the top pick in this year's draft should to get money comparable to last year's #1 pick, but on the way to the draft all 6 die in a bus crash. would the next best player still get money comparable to last year's #1 pick since someone has to be chosen first overall?

ask yourself if leodis mckelvin or ryan clady is worth $35M guaranteed?

Why would they take the bus?

[Hostile]

Again, I don't disagree with you, in theory. I actually agree with the concept, in theory, of not making the pick.

But the reality is the Dolphins clearly would be looked at by the league as trying to undermine "the system" and you just can't get away with those kind of bush-league tactics. If a team wants to move down, fine.
But find a trade partner and make a trade, just like Jerry did with Roy Williams.

But holding the #1 pick and simply not picking would be a public relations disaster for the NFL. Goodell would rip Parcells and the entire Fins ownership a new one if they pulled a stunt like that. That's why Ron Wolf said what he said.I don't think he would. Why would he? It's within the rules per Greg Aiello. I mean how does that conversation go?

"You played by the rules. How dare you?"

It's like accounting, you always try and pay less.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Hey whatever trips your trigger on how you want to build a relationship with your employees, more power to ya. At least you'll know where that biting sensation on your arse in a couple years is coming from.

But if anyone thinks this is going to do anything with the rookie's salary, St. Louis is the team that will be paying the #1 money, so nothing's changed.


Somethings changed. Players, agents, Clubs and the League now know that something is broken and it has to be fixed.

To me, that's the one good thing that could really come out of this.

[Hostile]

Somethings changed. Players, agents, Clubs and the League now know that something is broken and it has to be fixed.

To me, that's the one good thing that could really come out of this.Berman's head exploding...

How is that not a good thing?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Heres something else. The 4 guys that Miami would be happy with will not go before the 5th pick. One of them will last past 4, hell 2 of them might if ATL takes a QB and OAK takes DMC.

If Bill is serious about making that move, it wouldn't shock me to see those kids' agents start getting ahold of Bill to work a deal. #4 overall money is a lot more then #6 or #7 or where ever they might go.

It could easily go that route and work out for everyone.....everyone except ATL, STL and OAK I suppose.

Ding, ding.

That is what is really at the heart of this thing. Bill is trying to drive the price down on his pick. Lets say he really want Ryan. Ryan's agent is looking at the possability of not being picked till lets say the 6th pick or lower. He could be the 1st pick for much less then 30 Million Guaranted or he could be the 6th pick for much, much less then 30 Million Guaranted. That's what is really going on here.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Berman's head exploding...

How is that not a good thing?

You and me Hos. Were lock step on this one. I can only see good coming from something like this, even if it is turbulant at the outset. Eventually, it will work to the advantage of the players and the owners. The end product will be a better NFL.

The bye product, which also happens to be a plus, is watching Berman's head explode.

Let's see him go pick up Leather after that one.

;)

[jackrussell]

Somethings changed. Players, agents, Clubs and the League now know that something is broken and it has to be fixed.

To me, that's the one good thing that could really come out of this.

I don't disagree things should probably change. But if, as you say, everyone knows something is broken and it has to be fixed, how is offering up Jake Long as the sacrificial lamb expounding on anything more than they already knew? As Jerry said, NOTHING can be done til the new CBA...it's obviously on their radar.

As I've said, while this may help Miami save money, St. Louis will STILL be paying the #1 money, so NOTHING will have changed. The way I see it, you're screwing the player and St. Louis to prove a point you admittingly say we all already know, all the while, not achieving anything on the pay scale problem.

And as much as I would enjoy Berman's head exploding...it most likely won't, and he'll just be even more obnoxious.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't disagree things should probably change. But if, as you say, everyone knows something is broken and it has to be fixed, how is offering up Jake Long as the sacrificial lamb expounding on anything more than they already knew? As Jerry said, NOTHING can be done til the new CBA...it's obviously on their radar.

As I've said, while this may help Miami save money, St. Louis will STILL be paying the #1 money, so NOTHING will have changed. The way I see it, you're screwing the player and St. Louis to prove a point you admittingly say we all already know, all the while, not achieving anything on the pay scale problem.

And as much as I would enjoy Berman's head exploding...it most likely won't, and he'll just be even more obnoxious.

I think the role that something like this would serve is to provide a preliminary look at how it could be in years to come, until such time as the CBA is restructured, if it ever is. This is a wake up call to all parties involved.

I see this as a situation in which things can be scaled back to a reasonable level.

I compare this to watching a guy hook up his trailor up to his truck and pulling out of a camping grounds, many years ago. Clearly the guy was not familiar with how to do this. He struggled with it for maybe half an hour and then finally, when he was satisfied that it was attached, he pulled out and started down the dirt road and out of the camp site. 20 feet down the road, he hit a bump and the trailor poped right off the hitch. The guy realized that something was wrong when he saw the trailor dragging behind the truck with only the sway chains keeping it attached to the truck. When the guy stopped, naturally, the trailor bumped into the back of the truck and all came to a rest. Don't know if you can imagine how comical this looked to all who were watching. I'm certain the guy felt like an idiot, as well he should have for not securing the trailor properly.

Now, nothing serious happened. The truck and the trailor probably swapped a little bit of paint but you could clearly see that the ramifications of what potentially could have happened were running through the poor guys mind. He looked down, shock his head for a minute and then hussled up to reattach the trailor, making certain that the hitch and ball were securely seated before tightening it back up, once again. Took much less time the 2nd go round and after maybe 10 minutes, they were back on the road.

That guy was me, the truck was pretty new and the trailor was rented from U-haul because at the time, I could not afford my own but since I had 5people with me, I could not fit all the camping gear in my truck so I rented the damn trailor. Nothing really hurt except my own pride but, my mind was thinking, what if that would have happened down the road going a lot faster? It was a warning to me. Get your own damn trailor and don't be stupid or lazy.

That's kinda how I see this thing.

:)

[dogberry]

If Miami convinces one of the top six to take 10 percent less than Russell got last year, would the #2 pick be expected to take 10 percent less than last year's #2?