Obama says he's outraged by former pastor's comments

[Dallas]

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama said Tuesday he was outraged by the latest assertion by his former pastor that criticism of his fiery sermons is an attack on the black church.


The presidential candidate is seeking to tamp down the growing fury over Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his incendiary remarks that threaten to undermine his campaign.

"I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday," Obama told reporters at a news conference.

After weeks of staying out of the public eye while critics lambasted his sermons, Wright made three public appearances in four days to defend himself. The former pastor of Trinity United Church of in Chicago has been combative, providing colorful commentary and feeding the story Obama had hoped was dying down.

"This is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright," Wright told the Washington media Monday. "It has nothing to do with Senator Obama. It is an attack on the black church launched by people who know nothing about the African-American religious tradition."

Obama told reporters Tuesday that Wright's comments do not accurately portray the perspective of the black church.
"The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago," Obama said of the man who married him.

Wright criticized the U.S. government as imperialist and stood by his suggestion that the United States invented the HIV virus as a means of genocide against minorities. "Based on this Tuskegee experiment and based on what has happened to Africans in this country, I believe our government is capable of doing anything," he said.

In a highly publicized speech last month, Obama sharply condemned Wright's remarks. But he did not leave the church or repudiate the minister himself, who he said was like a family member.

On Tuesday, Obama sought to distance himself further from Wright.
"I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia explaining that he's done enormous good. ... But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS. ... There are no excuses. They offended me. They rightly offend all Americans and they should be denounced."
Wright recently retired from the Trinity United Church of in Chicago. He became an issue in Obama's presidential bid when videos circulated of Wright condemning the U.S. government for allegedly racist and genocidal acts. In the videos, some several years old, Wright called on God to "damn America." He also said the government created the AIDS virus to destroy "people of color."

[WoodysGirl]

Of course he's outraged...You get that way when you're trying to get elected and the pink elephant keeps coming back into the room.

[Danny White]

"The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago," Obama said of the man who married him.


Reminds me of Captain Renault in Casablanca:

"I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"


http://www.casalinx.com/images/slideshow/048_renault_rick.jpg

[Jordan55]

Sad state of affairs, now he denounces him, 20 years to late
The preacher ends up torpedoing change.
With a friend like this, who needs an enemy.


http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/2/2/obama-and-wright.jpg

[Danny White]

Gingrich posits that Wright is intentionally damaging Obama:

ABC News' Nitya Venkataraman Reports: In a Tuesday appearance on Good Morning America, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga., suggested that controversial pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright is angry with parishioner Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and may be deliberately trying to hurt his presidential bid.

Saying that Wright "went out of his way to weaken Obama" during Monday's address at the National Press Club, Gingrich told Barbara Walters "I think Reverend Wright has a greater interest in his self-importance."

Gingrich described Obama former pastor as "hard-line anti-American", and said "if Rev. Wright continues to talk that the burden that Sen. Obama carries becomes bigger and bigger. "

Gingrich described Obama's challenges as "two-fold", citing "left-wing relationships" calling the Illinois senator "disingenuous" about them.

Gingrich also referenced complications in the path to the Democratic nomination via Michigan and Florida. (Both states were stripped of convention delegates for holding their primaries too early in the 2008 process.)

"I don't see how they're going to have a convention and not have the fourth biggest state in the country represented," Gingrich told Walters.

[Hostile]

Of course he's outraged...You get that way when you're trying to get elected and the pink elephant keeps coming back into the room.He continues to handle it right IMO.

Very impressed with the man. Some can question his politics, and that is fine. I'm talking about the man himself.

My first thought when Wright said it was for political reasons only that Obama spoke out was that he just put words and ideas in the man's head without his consent. I'd say Obama's remarks here are pretty good evidence it was exactly that.

[canters]

He continues to handle it right IMO.

Very impressed with the man. Some can question his politics, and that is fine. I'm talking about the man himself.

My first thought when Wright said it was for political reasons only that Obama spoke out was that he just put words and ideas in the man's head without his consent. I'd say Obama's remarks here are pretty good evidence it was exactly that.

You may be correct, but I will reserve judgement. He is still a politician to me until proven otherwise. I don't think he will win IF he is the nominee. He would lose 43-45 states. But would I be surprised to see President Obama warming up to Wright by saying "we have patched up our differences and are now on great terms. I would consult him for my spritual needs if I felt I needed to,,,etc." ? No I would not.

[Jordan55]

He continues to handle it right IMO.

Very impressed with the man. Some can question his politics, and that is fine. I'm talking about the man himself.


News Flash! he's running for President, he's impressive, but the preacher, has really hurt him. At this point, I believe, he might be a day late and a dollar short. This campaign just became even more entertaining. Hillary, is going to pound him on his judgement. I don't think she can bring up associations, because of her own.:horse:

[Hostile]

News Flash! he's running for President, he's impressive, but the preacher, has really hurt him. At this point, I believe, he might be a day late and a dollar short. This campaign just became even more entertaining. Hillary, is going to pound him on his judgement. I don't think she can bring up associations, because of her own.:horse:Wow! I did not know he was running for President. Holy revelations Batman.

[Hostile]

You may be correct, but I will reserve judgement. He is still a politician to me until proven otherwise. I don't think he will win IF he is the nominee. He would lose 43-45 states. But would I be surprised to see President Obama warming up to Wright by saying "we have patched up our differences and are now on great terms. I would consult him for my spritual needs if I felt I needed to,,,etc." ? No I would not.As long as he beats Hilary I am fine. I can support either him or McCain for President. Their political party doesn't matter to me.

[sacase]

He continues to handle it right IMO.

Very impressed with the man. Some can question his politics, and that is fine. I'm talking about the man himself.

My first thought when Wright said it was for political reasons only that Obama spoke out was that he just put words and ideas in the man's head without his consent. I'd say Obama's remarks here are pretty good evidence it was exactly that.

I am sorry I just don't trust Obama. Yeah it is a good thing that he called him out like he did, but its 20 years to late. You cannot tell me that Obama wasn't aware of the type of sermons that were going on. This man, wright, he been the same way for probally his whole adult life, if fact I would wager he was probably even more militant when he was younger. Obama was close to the man and I am pretty sure that he shares many of his views. Some of those views he doesn't want public.

You are not only judged by your actions, but the actions of those you keep around you.

[Hostile]

I am sorry I just don't trust Obama. Yeah it is a good thing that he called him out like he did, but its 20 years to late. You cannot tell me that Obama wasn't aware of the type of sermons that were going on. This man, wright, he been the same way for probally his whole adult life, if fact I would wager he was probably even more militant when he was younger. Obama was close to the man and I am pretty sure that he shares many of his views. Some of those views he doesn't want public.

You are not only judged by your actions, but the actions of those you keep around you.Part of me agrees with you. Part of me does not. I shared on this forum one time that my dad and Uncle served time in prison. I've lived with the stains of their actions for a long time and never felt I deserved the association.

It is pretty easy for me to separate Obama from his Pastor. I refuse to do to him what I hate that happened to me.

[Jordan55]

Wow! I did not know he was running for President. Holy revelations Batman.


Just making sure! Just trying to grasp if his 20 year association with Wright, had influenced you at all. You might be impressed with the man, but Voting for him as President, well I think that ticket just took a drastic turn, but it will be interesting to see what happens within the democratic party with the super delegates.

[sacase]

Part of me agrees with you. Part of me does not. I shared on this forum one time that my dad and Uncle served time in prison. I've lived with the stains of their actions for a long time and never felt I deserved the association.

It is pretty easy for me to separate Obama from his Pastor. I refuse to do to him what I hate that happened to me.


I know what you are saying, but I think family falls into a little bit different catagory.

Actually me and my girlfriend talked about this very same thing this past weekend with the NYC cops being found not guilty. Once we found out that Bell's friend was arrested nine times in the past, inlcuding armed robbery, and served time in jail twice upstate and Bell himself had previous gun and drug charges we had very little sympathy for them much less believing the story.
Her arguement was if you are changing your life and supposed to be a changed man who was all about his family, why are you running with convicted felons? You have two little girls that don't need to be around that. Now this is only part of what we discussed but it came back to, you are precived by who you keep around you. Typically if people see a group of 5 close femal friends and 4 of them are promiscuous then it is assumed/ right/wrong or indifferent that the 5th is that way as well.

[WoodysGirl]

I know what you are saying, but I think family falls into a little bit different catagory.

Actually me and my girlfriend talked about this very same thing this past weekend with the NYC cops being found not guilty. Once we found out that Bell's friend was arrested nine times in the past, inlcuding armed robbery, and served time in jail twice upstate and Bell himself had previous gun and drug charges we had very little sympathy for them much less believing the story.
Her arguement was if you are changing your life and supposed to be a changed man who was all about his family, why are you running with convicted felons? You have two little girls that don't need to be around that. Now this is only part of what we discussed but it came back to, you are precived by who you keep around you. Typically if people see a group of 5 close femal friends and 4 of them are promiscuous then it is assumed/ right/wrong or indifferent that the 5th is that way as well.Re: Bell. The same question could be asked why are millionaire football players still running around with knuckleheads? They're boys.

[sacase]

Re: Bell. The same question could be asked why are millionaire football players still running around with knuckleheads? They're boys.

Which further reinforces my point. At some point in your life you have to make the hard decision to eliminate the bad influences from your life. Which is exactly why so many football players get into trouble. Its a very familier pattern.

[Doomsday101]

Come on Obama are you outraged because of the comments or because you are running for office and it is having a negative effect? You been listening to this man for 20 year and you are just now outraged give me a break!!!!

[REDVOLUTION]

He continues to handle it right IMO.

Very impressed with the man. Some can question his politics, and that is fine. I'm talking about the man himself.


Sorry Hos. Nothing to be impressed with IMO.

He is learning the ropes on "say whatever you have to" to win the people over. No props from me.

We, as a society, are easily fooled or we by in to the "eloquent speakers". I see SCAM when I listen to someone who gives a good speech in politics.

I want actions not words.



Come on Obama are you outraged because of the comments or because you are running for office and it is having a negative effect? You been listening to this man for 20 year and you are just now outraged give me a break!!!!


Agreed.
I believe he is actually dangerous. He has some good ideas... but I have a bad feeling about what he really wants to do... dont know what it is but he has this underlying "something negative" I cant put my finger on it.... yet.

[SuspectCorner]

Reverend Wright seems to be an attention ***** with more than a couple of flakey opinions. But he is not running for the office of President. And HIS VIEWS should not be confused with those of Obama.

I know some pretty flakey people, too. And they know me - may even count me among THEIR "flakey people". I even love some of them and hope that they feel likewise. But none of us are conjoined.

Obama has renounced many of Reverend Wright's views. Enough to assure me that he is his own man in that regard. I do not require that he crucify Wright and prefer that he NOT make him a central issue in his campaign. I'll leave that to those factions of the knee-jerk media and electorate too lazy or inept to dig into issues more germane to the election process.

So far I think Obama has handled himself admirably in the face of a minor **** storm.

[Jordan55]

What took Obama, so long?

And as I said before, I continue to believe that Reverend Wright has been a -- a -- a leader in the South Side. I think that the church he built is outstanding. I think that he has preached in the past some wonderful sermons. He provided, you know, valuable contributions to my family.

But at a certain point, if what somebody says contradicts what you believe so fundamentally, and then he questions whether or not you believe it in front of the National Press Club, then that's enough. That's -- that's a show of disrespect to me. It's a -- it is also, I think, an insult to what we've been trying to do in this campaign.


Wright has showed so much disrespect to so many people, but only when Wright shows disrespect to Obama himself does the candidate take umbrage. Chickens coming home to roost? That doesn't rise to the level of throwing the guy overboard. The government created AIDS? You wouldn't disown your grandmother for saying that. How about God damn America? Surely you wouldn't abandon your community, your roots, just because your preacher damned the country that gave you every opportunity you've ever had. But disrespect moi? Well, every man has his breaking point.

In fact, the whole affair has a rather Beauchampian quality. Deny, deny, deny, nothing to see here. Then when that doesn't work, disavow selected items in the narrowest way possible so as to avoid the embarrassment of disavowing the whole. And when that fails and you have no other choice and the damage is already done, toss the guy overboard with a minimum amount of grace and a maximum amount of self-centered indignation. Oh, and get Andrew Sullivan to make your case well beyond the point when any such case is tenable, only to have him declare your judgment and management of the affair beyond reproach at the very moment you're forced to admit what everybody else has known for months.

[Mavs Man]

What took Obama, so long?

Obama was not willing to throw his pastor/friend/mentor under the bus after the story first broke. I can respect that.

Flash forward several weeks. The story is dead, but here comes Wright to drudge it all up again and make it worse with his new comments. This is different - Obama should be upset, and that's why he has finally distanced himself.

[REDVOLUTION]

And HIS VIEWS should not be confused with those of Obama.



Why not?

The only one who really knows the truth about that is Obama. You dont know and I dont know.

[Doomsday101]

Obama was not willing to throw his pastor/friend/mentor under the bus after the story first broke. I can respect that.

Flash forward several weeks. The story is dead, but here comes Wright to drudge it all up again and make it worse with his new comments. This is different - Obama should be upset, and that's why he has finally distanced himself.

And it was having a negative effect on his campaign. Hey I give him credit it only took him 20 years to distance himself from this idiot. :laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

OK let's see...

First Obama said, "I'm not aware of the context of his quotes since I wasn't there."

Then when that wasn't enough, he says, "Rev. Wright doesn't speak for me."

Then that wasn't enough. He then says, "I condemn those remarks."

Yet again, not enough, so then, "I find his remarks reprehensible."

And today, he is "Outraged".


Tomorrow he will be calling for his execution.

Obama simply says what he thinks will appease the masses and say as little as he can and get away with it. Anyone who votes for this joker is crazy.

[BrAinPaiNt]

OK let's see...

First Obama said, "I'm not aware of the context of his quotes since I wasn't there."

Then when that wasn't enough, he says, "Rev. Wright doesn't speak for me."

Then that wasn't enough. He then says, "I condemn those remarks."

Yet again, not enough, so then, "I find his remarks reprehensible."

And today, he is "Outraged".


Tomorrow he will be calling for his execution.

Obama simply says what he thinks will appease the masses and say as little as he can and get away with it. Anyone who votes for this joker is crazy.

Hey bush won two times...anything can happen and it is just further proof that the voting public is crazy if they voted for bush a second time.

That's what scares me about hillary getting the chance to run in the general election.

[Cajuncowboy]

Hey bush won two times...anything can happen and it is just further proof that the voting public is crazy if they voted for bush a second time.

That's what scares me about hillary getting the chance to run in the general election.

Bush was the best choice for America. Can you imagine the mess we would be in if Kerry was elected?

[Hostile]

If I were in Barack's shoes I'd risk a lawsuit and go ahead and deck him. Pow, right in the festering gob.

Might be the only way he'll ever shake the connection.

[burmafrd]

Kerry would have screwed up differently. More then likely by doing very little.
And then trying to push his own left wing agenda.

At least one of the candidates this time actually has accomplished things and has proven himself in hard times. So its better then it was.

[Doomsday101]

If I were in Barack's shoes I'd risk a lawsuit and go ahead and deck him. Pow, right in the festering gob.

Might be the only way he'll ever shake the connection.

Me too!!!! Then McCain would not have to be concerned about question of his temper. :laugh2:

[burmafrd]

Hos

Obama said nothing after years of listening to his sermons. There can be no doubt that things were said in those years just like the video;s showed. Obama did NOTHING untill it became a problem. If he was REALLY principaled he would have confronted Wright years ago.
There is no way this is NOT political and nothing else. And that says a whole lot of bad things about Obama

[Doomsday101]

Hos

Obama said nothing after years of listening to his sermons. There can be no doubt that things were said in those years just like the video;s showed. Obama did NOTHING untill it became a problem. If he was REALLY principaled he would have confronted Wright years ago.
There is no way this is NOT political and nothing else. And that says a whole lot of bad things about Obama

I agree. People can spin this any way they want but don't sit there and tell me that after 20 years all of a sudden Obama is offended? Funny how it coincides with the fact he is running for the presidential nomination that all of a sudden he is somehow offended and outraged.

[Hostile]

Hos

Obama said nothing after years of listening to his sermons. There can be no doubt that things were said in those years just like the video;s showed. Obama did NOTHING untill it became a problem. If he was REALLY principaled he would have confronted Wright years ago.
There is no way this is NOT political and nothing else. And that says a whole lot of bad things about ObamaSo I am to gether from this that you either have never heard anything offensive in your life or that every time you have you have taken a stance against it.

He denounced the man's words and expressed his anger over the recent commentary.

[Doomsday101]

So I am to gether from this that you either have never heard anything offensive in your life or that every time you have you have taken a stance against it.

He denounced the man's words and expressed his anger over the recent commentary.

But for 20 years did not have an issue with it and now he does? Come on, he is doing this for self serving reasons. He see the negative press he is getting and is trying to halt it.

[Hostile]

But for 20 years did not have an issue with it and now he does? Come on, he is doing this for self serving reasons. He see the negative press he is getting and is trying to halt it.I don't have a problem with that.

Look, I am voting for McCain. I've already said I was behind my Arizona guy. So you guys can calm down trying to warn me about him.

[Doomsday101]

I don't have a problem with that.

Look, I am voting for McCain. I've already said I was behind my Arizona guy. So you guys can clam down trying to warn me about him.

I'm not trying to warn you but this is what it is and that is a political brush fire he is trying to put out. He is not standing up to Rev. Wright if he was he would have walked from that church along time ago.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Bush was the best choice for America. Can you imagine the mess we would be in if Kerry was elected?

You know I refused to vote for EITHER because I think both are dung heads. So not sure if it would be worse.

[ZeroClub]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.

[BrAinPaiNt]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.

Imagine that.

[vta]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.

Or at least the most vocal, but this isn't anything new.
Any shred of evidence that you are correct in who choose and that the other guy is wrong is going to be trumpeted loudly.

Does it make it any less valid though?

[ZeroClub]

Or at least the most vocal, but this isn't anything new.
Any shred of evidence that you are correct in who choose and that the other guy is wrong is going to be trumpeted loudly.

Does it make it any less valid though?

Yes, it does.

Under most circumstances, people who are highly biased (for or against) are less accurate in their appraisals.

[Doomsday101]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.

And those who excuses it and look the other way are the ones who will vote for him no matter what.

[vta]

Yes, it does.

Under most circumstances, people who are highly biased (for or against) are less accurate in their appraisals.

I disagree. The way a person handles themselves doesn't really reflect the truth, or lack of, about a certain issue. Anyone is capable of making an *** of themselves, in furtherance of proving a truth.

Personally I think Obama is full of **** and is most definitely just saying what he has to say as damage control. Yes he handles himself well overall, but the fundamental skill of 'speaking' doesn't impress me much and I can see it for what it is: playing politics.

[ZeroClub]

And those who excuses it and look the other way are the ones who will vote for him no matter what.

That's why this isn't a big issue.

It isn't likely to change anybody's minds - the hysterical screams of outrage from the right, not withstanding.

[Doomsday101]

That's why this isn't a big issue.

It isn't likely to change anybody's minds - the hysterical screams of outrage from the right, not withstanding.

Sure it is because while Rep will vote Rep and Dems will vote Dems many independents are now taking a 2nd look at Obama who has had the benefit of being pretty much an unknown with voters and with more information regarding who he is and his character things like this can make a big difference.

[Hostile]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.My issue is with Wright, not Obama.

[ZeroClub]

Sure it is because while Rep will vote Rep and Dems will vote Dems many independents are now taking a 2nd look at Obama who has had the benefit of being pretty much an unknown with voters and with more information regarding who he is and his character things like this can make a big difference.

I've been very pleasantly surprised that the "Scary Negro" tactic has lost much of it's ommph this election cycle. Willie Horton was an effective ad in its time, but I just don't see it as being nearly as effective today.

The right has run with at least two "Scary Negro" attacks vs. Obama (the New Black Panthers and the rabid Rev. Wright) and these attacks haven't achieved much beyond rousing the self-righteous rabble of the right.

[AtlCB]

I've been very pleasantly surprised that the "Scary Negro" tactic has lost much of it's ommph this election cycle. Willie Horton was an effective ad in its time, but I just don't see it as being nearly as effective today.

The right has run with at least two "Scary Negro" attacks vs. Obama (the New Black Panthers and the rabid Rev. Wright) and these attacks haven't achieved much beyond rousing the self-righteous rabble of the right.

Wright himself has done much more damage than any Republican ads could have ever done. The whole issue was disappearing until Wright openned his trap. I believe many voter are concerned that Obama had such a close relationship with Wright, but most of these voters (including myself) believe him when he says that he doesn't agree with Wright's views.

[Maikeru-sama]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.

:hammer:

Boy, ain't that the truth.

[Maikeru-sama]

And those who excuses it and look the other way are the ones who will vote for him no matter what.

Wrong!

The only candidates I liked were Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee, once I was able to sit down and hear what he had to say.

Besides Mitt Romney, the only candidate I truely dislike is HRC. I would be comfortable with McCain and to a lesser extent, BHO.

[zrinkill]

I've been very pleasantly surprised that the "Scary Negro" tactic has lost much of it's ommph this election cycle. Willie Horton was an effective ad in its time, but I just don't see it as being nearly as effective today.

The right has run with at least two "Scary Negro" attacks vs. Obama (the New Black Panthers and the rabid Rev. Wright) and these attacks haven't achieved much beyond rousing the self-righteous rabble of the right.

Kinda like the "scary rich white man" tactic that the left uses?

Like the "White men" who created aids to wipe out the black race .....

:laugh2:

[Maikeru-sama]

I don't have a problem with that.

Look, I am voting for McCain. I've already said I was behind my Arizona guy. So you guys can calm down trying to warn me about him.

It's imperative, you must apprised of this dangerous man they call Hussein!:D

[BrAinPaiNt]

Kinda like the "scary rich white man" tactic that the left uses?

Like the "White men" who created aids to wipe out the black race .....

:laugh2:

They did not make aids to wipe out the black race.

However some of the black people are old enough to remember the white doctors doing experiments with syphilis on the black man so I doubt it is too far of a stretch in their minds to think they would do something again to the black man.

It is far fetched for us to think that, it is far fetched for the younger generation to think that. But if you were a black person raised back in that time and people injected your own people with syphilis and studied them and let them die or go crazy because of it...I bet you might believe there is a chance they could do worse down the line.

Just something to think about.

[zrinkill]

They did not make aids to wipe out the black race.

However some of the black people are old enough to remember the white doctors doing experiments with syphilis on the black man so I doubt it is too far of a stretch in their minds to think they would do something again to the black man.

It is far fetched for us to think that, it is far fetched for the younger generation to think that. But if you were a black person raised back in that time and people injected your own people with syphilis and studied them and let them die or go crazy because of it...I bet you might believe there is a chance they could do worse down the line.

Just something to think about.

So if some black people rob and murder "my people" I should think black people invented robbery and murder?

Maybe if some latino's stab some of "my people" should I think latino invented stabbing people?

And just for your information BP ...... I am not white.

And as far as the Tuskegee Experiment goes ..... the facts are that those men already had syphilis and the callous doctors gave them Placebo with no intention of curing them of syphilis so they could study the autopsies info when they died. Maybe you should read up on it.

[zrinkill]

Just something to think about.

And my initial comment was about how the Rights "Scary Black Man" tactic was the same as the lefts "Scary Rich White man" Tactic.

You were just to ready to pounce on a "righty" to notice.

[WoodysGirl]

So if some black people rob and murder "my people" I should think black people invented robbery and murder?

Maybe if some latino's stab some of "my people" should I think latino invented stabbing people?

And just for your information BP ...... I am not white.

And as far as the Tuskegee Experiment goes ..... the facts are that those men already had syphilis and the callous doctors gave them Placebo with no intention of curing them of syphilis so they could study the autopsies info when they died. Maybe you should read up on it.

You're factually correct, but there is a huge amount of mistrust of doctors in the black community (not to generalize too much) due to that "Experiment" I have no issue with going to the doctor, but too many people I know, young and old, don't like going to the doctor for some of those same reasons.

You don't have to agree with that logic, but ask yourself. For forty years, a disease among a large amount of people were left untreated, studied like lab rats, and left to pass on to their wives and children. That was just over 30 years ago.

Remember what I've said about how some things just aren't going to go away or forgotten just because someone blew the whistle on it.

[Doomsday101]

I've been very pleasantly surprised that the "Scary Negro" tactic has lost much of it's ommph this election cycle. Willie Horton was an effective ad in its time, but I just don't see it as being nearly as effective today.

The right has run with at least two "Scary Negro" attacks vs. Obama (the New Black Panthers and the rabid Rev. Wright) and these attacks haven't achieved much beyond rousing the self-righteous rabble of the right.

What are you talking about? When did Hillary become a Republican? I love how you liberals love playing the victim all the time.

[zrinkill]

You're factually correct, but there is a huge amount of mistrust of doctors in the black community (not to generalize too much) due to that "Experiment" I have no issue with going to the doctor, but too many people I know, young and old, don't like going to the doctor for some of those same reasons.

You don't have to agree with that logic, but ask yourself. For forty years, a disease among a large amount of people were left untreated, studied like lab rats, and left to pass on to their wives and children. That was just over 30 years ago.

Remember what I've said about how some things just aren't going to go away or forgotten just because someone blew the whistle on it.

See post "54" ..... but since you want to discuss it.

This is the same thing as saying Native Americans should not trust any kind of deal because the Government broke deal after deal with them.

Or Asian Americans should not trust the Cops because of what happened to Japanese Americans in WW2

Horrible things were done by my ,and Obama's, White ancestors to the African American people.

Should I apologize? Should Obama? Should I feel the wrath of the ancestors of those who were wronged? Should Obama?

If a white kids father was murdered by black gang members should he hate black people or at least feel animosity toward them for the rest of his life? Should it be "understandable" if he feels that way?

I say every Race has skeletons in their closet ..... Every Race has done evil to another.

To excuse bigotry and racism because of something that happened to you or your ancestors is ignorance.

[WoodysGirl]

See post "54" ..... but since you want to discuss it.

This is the same thing as saying Native Americans should not trust any kind of deal because the Government broke deal after deal with them.

Or Asian Americans should not trust the Cops because of what happened to Japanese Americans in WW2

Horrible things were done by my ,and Obama's, White ancestors to the African American people.

Should I apologize? Should Obama? Should I feel the wrath of the ancestors of those who were wronged? Should Obama?

If a white kids father was murdered by black gang members should he hate black people or at least feel animosity toward them for the rest of his life? Should it be "understandable" if he feels that way?

I say every Race has skeletons in their closet ..... Every Race has done evil to another.

To excuse bigotry and racism because of something that happened to you or your ancestors is ignorance.Who's done that? I was only discussing that particular point re: the Tuskegee Experiment, because I have a better of view it from people i know. The mistrust of doctors is very real and it's hard to get the older generation to go to doctors for wellness treatments and such because of it until it's too late. And then of course, that mistrust is passed down. And THAT is my only point.

As for the other stuff, I think some of your counterpoints are a bit off and extreme, but to be honest I'm not really up for going there today. There will ALWAYS be a difference of opinion on some things based on different life perspectives. There are days when I don't mind addressing it, but today isn't one of them.

[zrinkill]

Who's done that? I was only discussing that particular point re: the Tuskegee Experiment, because I have a better of view it from people i know. The mistrust of doctors is very real and it's hard to get the older generation to go to doctors for wellness treatments and such because of it until it's too late. And then of course, that mistrust is passed down. And THAT is my only point.

And it was not I that first brought up the Tuskegee experiment .... it was BP

He threw it at me to counter something I was not arguing .... (if you check out post 54)

I have gotten used to that though.

[WoodysGirl]

And it was not I that first brought up the Tuskegee experiment .... it was BP

He threw it at me to counter something I was not arguing .... (if you check out post 54)

I have gotten used to that though.I know who brought it up, Zrin. You know how different topics always get thrown into these discussion threads. That's not a biggie. I was just addressing that one tidbit.

Now you and Brain can go back to your regular programming. ;)

[BrAinPaiNt]

So if some black people rob and murder "my people" I should think black people invented robbery and murder?

Maybe if some latino's stab some of "my people" should I think latino invented stabbing people?

And just for your information BP ...... I am not white.

And as far as the Tuskegee Experiment goes ..... the facts are that those men already had syphilis and the callous doctors gave them Placebo with no intention of curing them of syphilis so they could study the autopsies info when they died. Maybe you should read up on it.


Somehow I think white people were killing white people long before we brought black people around through the slave trade.

[zrinkill]

Somehow I think white people were killing white people long before we brought black people around through the slave trade.

And black people were not dieing from diseases before then?

[ZeroClub]

You're factually correct, but there is a huge amount of mistrust of doctors in the black community (not to generalize too much) due to that "Experiment" I have no issue with going to the doctor, but too many people I know, young and old, don't like going to the doctor for some of those same reasons.

You don't have to agree with that logic, but ask yourself. For forty years, a disease among a large amount of people were left untreated, studied like lab rats, and left to pass on to their wives and children. That was just over 30 years ago.

Remember what I've said about how some things just aren't going to go away or forgotten just because someone blew the whistle on it.

And as you know, they weren't just doctors, they were government doctors. The project was financed by the U.S. government. It was the U.S. Public Health Service's baby.

A whole group of people were left to rationally conclude that they'd have to be crazy to trust health providers in general and government health providers in particular.

--

You'd think that Reagan republicans, who profess a strong general distrust of government, would be the first people to understand how 40 years of "The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male" would lead to a strong distrust of the government.

[zrinkill]

You'd think that Reagan republicans, who profess a strong general distrust of government, would be the first people to understand how 40 years of "The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male" would lead to a strong distrust of the government.

Nothing wrong with that .... but to preach hate speech because of it is another thing.

400 men were researched on ...... how many have allowed themselves to die in fear of repeating it?

Does preaching hatred from the pulpit continue this fear? Does it allow these things to continue?

[WoodysGirl]

Nothing wrong with that .... but to preach hate speech because of it is another thing.I've yet to hear any whole sermons to fully put any of his comments into context. So, it's hard for me to think all he's taught over the years is hate, even if what I've heard is considered hateful by some.


400 men were researched on ...... how many have allowed themselves to die in fear of repeating it?It wasn't just 400 men impacted by it, tho.

Direct impact: By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html

Indirect impact: All the people who were already distrustful of the government, their fears were realized. It may not make sense to you, but I'm never surprised that African Americans are seemingly the leaders in every negative health-related study due to poor treatment.

Does preaching hatred from the pulpit continue this fear? Does it allow these things to continue?Not at all and I would put good money on the fact that Wright and other ministers also preached about going to the doctor, getting wellness treatments, signing up for organ donations, giving blood and attending health awareness fairs.

[Cajuncowboy]

The people who are most outraged by Obama's association with Wright are the people who never would have voted for Obama in the first place.

So if that's the case, why even bother to deal with it. Just shrug it off and be done with it if it doesn't matter?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Who's done that? I was only discussing that particular point re: the Tuskegee Experiment, because I have a better of view it from people i know. The mistrust of doctors is very real and it's hard to get the older generation to go to doctors for wellness treatments and such because of it until it's too late. And then of course, that mistrust is passed down. And THAT is my only point.

As for the other stuff, I think some of your counterpoints are a bit off and extreme, but to be honest I'm not really up for going there today. There will ALWAYS be a difference of opinion on some things based on different life perspectives. There are days when I don't mind addressing it, but today isn't one of them.

People who don't really want to talk about race problems. Those that basically said...hey we all had it, just forget it, why are people still mad...just don't get that things are brought up of this nature it is not to excuse things. It is to show why things are for an older generation of people and why they believe the way they do.

Oddly enough it is far from just the black population that still feels strongly about government or race.

I mean last time I checked there still seems to be a pretty decent amount of KKK members, Skin heads and neo natzis in the world.

Kind of hard to trust the government for things that have happened in the past that is evil for lack of a better word. Yet then to turn around and hear people all the time saying...We don't want to talk about it, just forget, don't worry about what happened back then.

In another thread there was talk about MLK and how people seemed to paint him in such a light that he was nothing like the current Pastor in the news now. However people MLK did say things against the government that was very radical in that time, maybe more radical then due to the times than it is now. Furthermore it the government even had him on a watch list...the GOVERNMENT.

However this whole, just ignore it, this whole these people don't know how good they got it, this that was then this is now type of attitude does not help matters because it suppresses any type of conversations to help get over the past and help educate the younger generation.

I know this type of attitude should not shock me as it is so normal, but it still does when people just feel everyone should forget it and sweep it under the rug. Like some uncle in a family that molested a niece but the family kept it under wraps to spare the family any embarrassment and wonder why the daughter grows up with problems and their only solution is to say...just get over it, it happened in the past. But the parents are always shocked when the daughter gets mad or still holds resentment against those that were in charge of protecting her but did not and still do not get it.

I mean how hard is it for a generation of some people to just forget the exp we talked about earlier with syphilis, how easy is it for them to just trust the cops or local government when they grew up in a time when those people were high ranking members of the KKK and not only did not care if a black girl was raped or killed, but probably had a part in it.

People act like racism is dead now days. Hell it was only last year I seen a special where they had a the differences of how a white and black couple could get an apartment in an upscale area.

One time they would have the couples call inquiring if any apartments were open. The black couple called on place and they said that they were no openings at that time. A white couple called an hour later and they had three open apartments in the same building.

Another part of the special showed a black couple showing up in a small neighborhood that was mostly white. The reality lady said the house was just sold when she saw the black couple pull up and get out of their car. A couple hours later, or the next day, a white couple called and the lady met them at the house. The Husband told the reality lady that a friend had told him the house had been sold and the lady said...no it is still on the market.

On something totally different. Not sure if you have every watched crank yankers. There was one episode with Tracy Morgan playing a character named spoony love. So they have him call a golf club and see if he could get a tee time for him and a couple of friends. The guy on the other end tells him they have to be members before they can golf there. So he asks him if he can try it and if he likes what he sees he will become a member. The guy on the other end tells him they are not taking any new members.

So a few minutes later Tracy calls back but now sounds like a preppy white guy. Tells the guy that he is in town for the weekend and would it be ok if he and a couple of friends come over to play a round of golf. The guy says sure. So Tracy reverts back to spoony love voice and says...you just told me we could not golf there unless we are members and you are not taking any new members. The guy on the other end is tongue tied and Tracy says...HaHA I got your arse I got your Arse now.

Now the whole thing was funny because how it went down. But digging into it you realize it was not so funny.

But..I guess we can all stick our heads in the sand and hope that one day these attitudes just magically disappear.

[WoodysGirl]

Absolutely great post, Brain and there's nothing I could add to it. This point especially stood out and I think this is the root of alot of frustration.

However this whole, just ignore it, this whole these people don't know how good they got it, this that was then this is now type of attitude does not help matters because it suppresses any type of conversations to help get over the past and help educate the younger generation.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Absolutely great post, Brain and there's nothing I could add to it. This point especially stood out and I think this is the root of alot of frustration.

And I think that was what Obama was talking about in his Race speech.

Now, don't get me wrong. I think Obama was full of it when he said he never heard stuff like that from Wright for 20 years. I think he was full of it when he said this is not the man he knew.

Problem I see is that this guy has probably been like this for a LONG time and Obama just ignored it.

I will also bring up this point. Have ever known somebody that you try to tell them something but they just don't get it or pay attention and you find that your only recourse is to be rude and go to extremes before they will get it or before it sinks in with them. That is how I see Wright doing things. He takes things to the extreme in order to get his point across and get attention.

The problem with him however in his quest to get his point across in order to further race talks, he is actually hurting the best chance America has to have a black president.

I think in some ways it goes back to the "house negro" mentality that if Obama is doing well and is going to be in a high position other blacks start seeing him as the "house negro" and that fits into the older generation and goes back to the days of slavery. I am sure you know what I mean by that term and how some people view that.

It's sad that a person has the best chance to be a President, the first black president, and it is a person of his own race that is hurting him the most.

[Rowdy]

People who don't really want to talk about race problems. Those that basically said...hey we all had it, just forget it, why are people still mad...just don't get that things are brought up of this nature it is not to excuse things. It is to show why things are for an older generation of people and why they believe the way they do.

Oddly enough it is far from just the black population that still feels strongly about government or race.

I mean last time I checked there still seems to be a pretty decent amount of KKK members, Skin heads and neo natzis in the world.

Kind of hard to trust the government for things that have happened in the past that is evil for lack of a better word. Yet then to turn around and hear people all the time saying...We don't want to talk about it, just forget, don't worry about what happened back then.

In another thread there was talk about MLK and how people seemed to paint him in such a light that he was nothing like the current Pastor in the news now. However people MLK did say things against the government that was very radical in that time, maybe more radical then due to the times than it is now. Furthermore it the government even had him on a watch list...the GOVERNMENT.

However this whole, just ignore it, this whole these people don't know how good they got it, this that was then this is now type of attitude does not help matters because it suppresses any type of conversations to help get over the past and help educate the younger generation.

I know this type of attitude should not shock me as it is so normal, but it still does when people just feel everyone should forget it and sweep it under the rug. Like some uncle in a family that molested a niece but the family kept it under wraps to spare the family any embarrassment and wonder why the daughter grows up with problems and their only solution is to say...just get over it, it happened in the past. But the parents are always shocked when the daughter gets mad or still holds resentment against those that were in charge of protecting her but did not and still do not get it.

I mean how hard is it for a generation of some people to just forget the exp we talked about earlier with syphilis, how easy is it for them to just trust the cops or local government when they grew up in a time when those people were high ranking members of the KKK and not only did not care if a black girl was raped or killed, but probably had a part in it.

People act like racism is dead now days. Hell it was only last year I seen a special where they had a the differences of how a white and black couple could get an apartment in an upscale area.

One time they would have the couples call inquiring if any apartments were open. The black couple called on place and they said that they were no openings at that time. A white couple called an hour later and they had three open apartments in the same building.

Another part of the special showed a black couple showing up in a small neighborhood that was mostly white. The reality lady said the house was just sold when she saw the black couple pull up and get out of their car. A couple hours later, or the next day, a white couple called and the lady met them at the house. The Husband told the reality lady that a friend had told him the house had been sold and the lady said...no it is still on the market.

On something totally different. Not sure if you have every watched crank yankers. There was one episode with Tracy Morgan playing a character named spoony love. So they have him call a golf club and see if he could get a tee time for him and a couple of friends. The guy on the other end tells him they have to be members before they can golf there. So he asks him if he can try it and if he likes what he sees he will become a member. The guy on the other end tells him they are not taking any new members.

So a few minutes later Tracy calls back but now sounds like a preppy white guy. Tells the guy that he is in town for the weekend and would it be ok if he and a couple of friends come over to play a round of golf. The guy says sure. So Tracy reverts back to spoony love voice and says...you just told me we could not golf there unless we are members and you are not taking any new members. The guy on the other end is tongue tied and Tracy says...HaHA I got your arse I got your Arse now.

Now the whole thing was funny because how it went down. But digging into it you realize it was not so funny.

But..I guess we can all stick our heads in the sand and hope that one day these attitudes just magically disappear.

So what is it you want the entire world to do BP? You want us all to be required to wear patches every day that says "remember slavery"? Do you want all Jews to be wary of every German person? Where does it end? I see more reverse racism than any type of racism out there. The examples you speak of are ridiculous because I could go out there and probably get the same type of reaction flipped the other way around.

The problem with society is pre-judging according to the past. If a certain race wants to get paranoid about medical care or fair treatment and believe they have a reason, then that is fine by me but don't go around lumping the entire race together. If a non-black person pulls the stuff you described on an African American, then that same person who got mistreated shouldn't walk by me at the store and glare at me for something I didn't do and don't condone. There's a difference between dealing with a problem and victimizing a race to a certain point of hatred to all.

You talk about "not forgetting or sweeping it under the rug", then should we not all pack our bags then and get out of this country since we took it from the Native Americans? They were here first. I was in the Air Force stationed in South Dakota and saw MANY Indians everywhere. It gave me a strange feeling while I was up there along with the "Dances With Wolves" setting of that region. I was humbled and I felt very bad about history lessons going again through my mind. But what can I do about it? I really can't. The only thing I can do is be an example of what I believe in and raise my children in equality and give them examples of the history of what DID happen but how we can learn from it. I can also bring up the great leaders like MLK who brought about change. But I can't change history and people need to realize that yes, its alive and well but not in everybody.

The problem is there are millions of people such as myself who see everyone equal and I only see skin color or race as a different spice in the giant human pot so to speak. Every race is wonderful and has a unique quality and heritage. I embrace them all. However I do not want to be made to pay for the sins of our "fathers". There's a difference between remembering for the better of our society and our children but there's also a difference in keeping that wound from ever healing. I see your point but I also see another.

[zrinkill]

Nice speech brain ..... but their is a big difference in "putting your head in the sand" and getting tired of hearing Racism and Bigotry spewed from these guys (White,Black,Brown) mouths with the excuse that its "ok" because they suffered Racism and Bigotry.

I am against Racism in all its forms ....... I don't excuse it because someone is angry over their ancestors or themselves suffering from it.

I have suffered from racism all my life ..... does not give me an excuse to preach hate and not suffer the consequences.

[Doomsday101]

I guess in Obama frustration and outrage he is currently clinging to his religion and his gun. :lmao2:

[Hostile]

The best thing about playing football was that in the locker room where we had just about every race you could imagine, there was no racism. We told irreverant jokes about each other all the time. Stuff that if I shared a bunch of people would be appalled. Yet in the locker room, there is no racism. The only color that matter is the color of the uniform you all wear. In that respect, the game was perfect.

Three years ago the Cowboys played a pre-season game in Tempe against the Cardinals and Adbutcher and I met up with Dale and we went out to eat dinner. (BTW guys, I hate to tell you this but that restaurant I took you to closed. So sad. Great place.) Dale was telling stories about stuff happening around the team. Ad and I were telling stories about practice, football dorms, and locker rooms and we were all laughing and just having a ball. Then we all got serious for a minute because we realized that some of the stories we shared might never be told because someone would take offense and make it into something that it simply isn't.

Damn that's a shame.

[Hostile]

I guess in Obama frustration and outrage he is currently clinging to his religion and his gun. :lmao2:That was funny.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So what is it you want the entire world to do BP? You want us all to be required to wear patches every day that says "remember slavery"? Do you want all Jews to be wary of every German person? Where does it end? I see more reverse racism than any type of racism out there. The examples you speak of are ridiculous because I could go out there and probably get the same type of reaction flipped the other way around.

The problem with society is pre-judging according to the past. If a certain race wants to get paranoid about medical care or fair treatment and believe they have a reason, then that is fine by me but don't go around lumping the entire race together. If a non-black person pulls the stuff you described on an African American, then that same person who got mistreated shouldn't walk by me at the store and glare at me for something I didn't do and don't condone. There's a difference between dealing with a problem and victimizing a race to a certain point of hatred to all.

You talk about "not forgetting or sweeping it under the rug", then should we not all pack our bags then and get out of this country since we took it from the Native Americans? They were here first. I was in the Air Force stationed in South Dakota and saw MANY Indians everywhere. It gave me a strange feeling while I was up there along with the "Dances With Wolves" setting of that region. I was humbled and I felt very bad about history lessons going again through my mind. But what can I do about it? I really can't. The only thing I can do is be an example of what I believe in and raise my children in equality and give them examples of the history of what DID happen but how we can learn from it. I can also bring up the great leaders like MLK who brought about change. But I can't change history and people need to realize that yes, its alive and well but not in everybody.

The problem is there are millions of people such as myself who see everyone equal and I only see skin color or race as a different spice in the giant human pot so to speak. Every race is wonderful and has a unique quality and heritage. I embrace them all. However I do not want to be made to pay for the sins of our "fathers". There's a difference between remembering for the better of our society and our children but there's also a difference in keeping that wound from ever healing. I see your point but I also see another.

That is the exact type of thing I was talking about. Instead of talking about it people either ignore it or go overboard in other areas to attack it.

Guess it is just too hard to just sit down and talk about it.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Nice speech brain ..... but their is a big difference in "putting your head in the sand" and getting tired of hearing Racism and Bigotry spewed from these guys (White,Black,Brown) mouths with the excuse that its "ok" because they suffered Racism and Bigotry.

I am against Racism in all its forms ....... I don't excuse it because someone is angry over their ancestors or themselves suffering from it.

I have suffered from racism all my life ..... does not give me an excuse to preach hate and not suffer the consequences.

But people don't want to talk about it period. They either ignore it or attack it instead of sitting down with meaningful conversation. I am not excusing HATE speech by any means. But if people don't want to listen and understand some things we are just spinning in circles and only increasing the problem that some people have...that others just don't care so why should they.

[zrinkill]

There's a difference between remembering for the better of our society and our children but there's also a difference in keeping that wound from ever healing. I see your point but I also see another.

That is the exact type of thing I was talking about. Instead of talking about it people either ignore it or go overboard in other areas to attack it.

Guess it is just too hard to just sit down and talk about it.

Seems to me like he was .....

[zrinkill]

But people don't want to talk about it period. They either ignore it or attack it instead of sitting down with meaningful conversation. I am not excusing HATE speech by any means. But if people don't want to listen and understand some things we are just spinning in circles and only increasing the problem that some people have...that others just don't care so why should they.

I have set down many times with people and talked about Race ..... I have never got up and stomped away in anger because of it, yet many many times that was the reaction of the person I was talking too be they white, black, or brown.

If you want to say people are spinning in circles, I agree ..... that is exactly what people like Wright and Byrd and the Terrorist leaders are doing.

Healing of what was done is what is needed ...... prosecution of those still doing it is what is needed. Dwelling and hating a Race because of past deeds is not needed and only continues the vicious cycle.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I have set down many times with people and talked about Race ..... I have never got up and stomped away in anger because of it, yet many many times that was the reaction of the person I was talking too be they white, black, or brown.

If you want to say people are spinning in circles, I agree ..... that is exactly what people like Wright and Byrd and the Terrorist leaders are doing.

Healing of what was done is what is needed ...... prosecution of those still doing it is what is needed. Dwelling and hating a Race because of past deeds is not needed and only continues the vicious cycle.

If a person is raped as a child, and the parents knew it was an uncle that did it. And the parents tell the child...tough things happen in life, it was wrong, but just get over it you are an adult now and we don't want to hear you complaining about it.

Is that healing?

This is similar to the race issue mentality by many today IMO.

Oh..boohoo the black man is complaining again...why don't those guys just get over it and quit complaining about it. In the mean time a black couple can not by a house they want in a neighborhood they like...because some racist says the property has been sold. Meanwhile a black man wants to join a certain golf club because he enjoys golf and it is a very nice course...too bad, we will give you every excuse except the truth...we don't want your kind here because it will drive away some of our high end clients. But hey, those black guys are just complaining about it, why can't they just shut up and let things heal over...hmm I wonder why.

[zrinkill]

If a person is raped as a child, and the parents knew it was an uncle that did it. And the parents tell the child...tough things happen in life, it was wrong, but just get over it you are an adult now and we don't want to hear you complaining about it.

Is that healing?

This is similar to the race issue mentality by many today IMO.

Oh..boohoo the black man is complaining again...why don't those guys just get over it and quit complaining about it. In the mean time a black couple can not by a house they want in a neighborhood they like...because some racist says the property has been sold. Meanwhile a black man wants to join a certain golf club because he enjoys golf and it is a very nice course...too bad, we will give you every excuse except the truth...we don't want your kind here because it will drive away some of our high end clients. But hey, those black guys are just complaining about it, why can't they just shut up and let things heal over...hmm I wonder why.

So in your example the parents where around when the action was taking place and new about it ..... does that describe us now ..... where we present during slavery or did we know what was going on during the Tuskegee crimes?

If that child grows up and starts killing every uncle he finds ...... or starts preaching how everyones uncle is a child molester ...... thats ok?

Now back to your "black guy" (love the stereotypes) scenario.

I have been through the first example .... do not play golf so not the second. But I did face many racist daddies when I went to pick up dates as a kid. Know what? I was an angry kid .... got in a lot of trouble. Was that the racist's I encountered fault? Or mine?

Hmmmmmm ..... I wonder?

[Cajuncowboy]

The best thing about playing football was that in the locker room where we had just about every race you could imagine, there was no racism. We told irreverant jokes about each other all the time. Stuff that if I shared a bunch of people would be appalled. Yet in the locker room, there is no racism. The only color that matter is the color of the uniform you all wear. In that respect, the game was perfect.

Three years ago the Cowboys played a pre-season game in Tempe against the Cardinals and Adbutcher and I met up with Dale and we went out to eat dinner. (BTW guys, I hate to tell you this but that restaurant I took you to closed. So sad. Great place.) Dale was telling stories about stuff happening around the team. Ad and I were telling stories about practice, football dorms, and locker rooms and we were all laughing and just having a ball. Then we all got serious for a minute because we realized that some of the stories we shared might never be told because someone would take offense and make it into something that it simply isn't.

Damn that's a shame.

When Michael Irvin made the comment about Tony Romo that is what he was talking about. Any of us who played football knows exactly what you are talking about and it's a shame that it doesn't translate into society because some folks are so uptight.

[Doomsday101]

When Michael Irvin made the comment about Tony Romo that is what he was talking about. Any of us who played football knows exactly what you are talking about and it's a shame that it doesn't translate into society because some folks are so uptight.

True, however in sports I think it is easier because the goal in sport is not varied there is only 1 goal and that is to win and it is easy bring people together when the goal is narrowed down to 1 thing

[Cajuncowboy]

True, however in sports I think it is easier because the goal in sport is not varied there is only 1 goal and that is to win and it is easy bring people together when the goal is narrowed down to 1 thing

Well the 1 goal in society should be to get along regardless of race. I know when you spend more time with people in general you will accept them easier than if you don't relate to them at all.

[Doomsday101]

Well the 1 goal in society should be to get along regardless of race. I know when you spend more time with people in general you will accept them easier than if you don't relate to them at all.

I agree but that is not the case. There are people who are not going to like you based on race and all the races are guilty of it and there is really nothing any one can say or do to change these individuals’ views

[Cajuncowboy]

I agree but that is not the case. There are people who are not going to like you based on race and all the races are guilty of it and there is really nothing any one can say or do to change these individuals’ views

Oh, I agree. Just saying I would like to see utopia I guess. Not being naive at all, just idealistic sometimes.

I think racism and bigotry are the most vile aspects of the human condition. It exposes the true heart of an individual and causes more strife in the world than anything else.

But with that said, I hate hearing it used all the time as a tool for political advantage.

[ConcordCowboy]

If you were going to vote for Obama before this Wright stuff you still will and if you weren't well this changes nothing.

What gets me is here's the first REAL chance for a black man to become President and here is a black man doing his best it seems to screw that up.

If I were Obama I would throw him under the bus and then run over him.

[Cajuncowboy]

If you were going to vote for Obama before this Wright stuff you still will and if you weren't well this changes nothing.

What gets me is here's the first REAL chance for a black man to become President and here is a black man doing his best it seems to screw that up.

If I were Obama I would throw him under the bus and then run over him.

I for one would love to see a black man as President, just not this black man.

Really to me, the color doesn't matter, but the content of the character, and that's what concerns me about Obama. He has associated with people like Wright, he has freinds who are terrorists and even his wife admitted that she had no pride in this country until her husband decided to run for prsident.

This is not the kind of person I want for president.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So in your example the parents where around when the action was taking place and new about it ..... does that describe us now ..... where we present during slavery or did we know what was going on during the Tuskegee crimes?

If that child grows up and starts killing every uncle he finds ...... or starts preaching how everyones uncle is a child molester ...... thats ok?

Now back to your "black guy" (love the stereotypes) scenario.

I have been through the first example .... do not play golf so not the second. But I did face many racist daddies when I went to pick up dates as a kid. Know what? I was an angry kid .... got in a lot of trouble. Was that the racist's I encountered fault? Or mine?

Hmmmmmm ..... I wonder?

Seeing as we still have a senator who was a member of the KKK in DC. Seeing how some racist still run state or local government. Seeing how the current president has refused to go to NCAAP meetings for Presidents or candidates. Seeing how there is still racism today by many in the US...yes I could see people still being wary of the government and other people.

You keep wanting to act like it is ok or not ok, to just dismiss it.

I am saying why some people still are wary of it.

You were treated with racism in your past, now you are a super guy and nothing bothers you about it. You are good to go, just because you have gotten over it does not mean people who were growing up during lynching, cross burning and other racists acts can get over it and just shut their traps because YOU or OTHERS just don't want to hear it.

Geez I don't get what you don't get with my explaining why some of the older generations feel the way they do. This is not just about someone not liking you dating their daughter. This was about people who have seen pure hatred and where they had to FIGHT to get their freedoms and still have to fight to get some respect.

This is only about explaining why some still feel this way. Good lord if I saw a family member hung on a tree or had a cross burning outside my house, if I seen my daughter killed and knew the cops did nothing about it because they were in on it and the mayor would not do anything about it because he also was a high ranking member of the KKK...I think I would still be bitter.

There are some things in life that some people just don't forget or forgive. And to expect them just to shut their yaps because you or others don't want to hear it...if I was them maybe I would tell you...Too bad if you don't want to hear it. I have issues I want to talk about.

Now I am sure you will give me a comeback about how they should still get over it just because you did...however all people are not wired the same, all people do not have the same degree of exp. So maybe, just maybe, they don't think they should have to just shut up about it like you want them to.

[zrinkill]

Seeing as we still have a senator who was a member of the KKK in DC. Seeing how some racist still run state or local government. Seeing how the current president has refused to go to NCAAP meetings for Presidents or candidates. Seeing how there is still racism today by many in the US...yes I could see people still being wary of the government and other people.

You keep wanting to act like it is ok or not ok, to just dismiss it.

I am saying why some people still are wary of it.

You were treated with racism in your past, now you are a super guy and nothing bothers you about it. You are good to go, just because you have gotten over it does not mean people who were growing up during lynching, cross burning and other racists acts can get over it and just shut their traps because YOU or OTHERS just don't want to hear it.

Geez I don't get what you don't get with my explaining why some of the older generations feel the way they do. This is not just about someone not liking you dating their daughter. This was about people who have seen pure hatred and where they had to FIGHT to get their freedoms and still have to fight to get some respect.

This is only about explaining why some still feel this way. Good lord if I saw a family member hung on a tree or had a cross burning outside my house, if I seen my daughter killed and knew the cops did nothing about it because they were in on it and the mayor would not do anything about it because he also was a high ranking member of the KKK...I think I would still be bitter.

There are some things in life that some people just don't forget or forgive. And to expect them just to shut their yaps because you or others don't want to hear it...if I was them maybe I would tell you...Too bad if you don't want to hear it. I have issues I want to talk about.

Now I am sure you will give me a comeback about how they should still get over it just because you did...however all people are not wired the same, all people do not have the same degree of exp. So maybe, just maybe, they don't think they should have to just shut up about it like you want them to.


You keep saying I said for them to shut up ..... I asked for them to stop preaching hate. Not the same thing.

Byrd is voted in by Libs ..... not me.

I answered your examples yet you ignored mine in favor of claiming Bush is a racists and bringing up images of Mississippi burning and A Time to kill.

I do not have to resort to movies to example Racism ..... I have seen it, even though you tried to belittle one example of what I have encountered (which I find funny coming from a white guy ......Opps thats racist of me)

So please keep explaining racism to me BP ...... :lmao2:.... and how I just do not understand it.

[Paniolo22]

I know what you are saying, but I think family falls into a little bit different catagory.

Actually me and my girlfriend talked about this very same thing this past weekend with the NYC cops being found not guilty. Once we found out that Bell's friend was arrested nine times in the past, inlcuding armed robbery, and served time in jail twice upstate and Bell himself had previous gun and drug charges we had very little sympathy for them much less believing the story.
Her arguement was if you are changing your life and supposed to be a changed man who was all about his family, why are you running with convicted felons? You have two little girls that don't need to be around that. Now this is only part of what we discussed but it came back to, you are precived by who you keep around you. Typically if people see a group of 5 close femal friends and 4 of them are promiscuous then it is assumed/ right/wrong or indifferent that the 5th is that way as well.

What you have to understand, is that after this long a period of time, Wright IS family. He's like an Uncle to them. We have big family parties here and if I had a dollar for every stupid comment my Uncles made, I'd be a rich man. Equally important is that if I had another dollar for every time they helped me out, I'd be just as rich. I also have a friend that I got into a lot of troubel with in High School. He is still getting into trouble and calls me for help. I have a hard time saying no to him when he needs help, even though we have grown apart through the years. I have a family now and have more to risk now, but it is still very difficult to have to let my friend down, who at this point is more like a brother. Family is who you choose in your life as well as those that you can't choose.

[zrinkill]

For the record .... I do not hold Obama responsible for what his racist preacher says.

The issue I am arguing has nothing to do with Obama.

In fact, Obama is one of the white guys I am defending ..... :laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

Seeing how the current president has refused to go to NCAAP meetings for Presidents or candidates.

You have got to be kidding me?????

:lmao2:

He only has had the highest ranking blacks in the history of the United States in his cabinet.

But somehow, him not attending the NAACP events make him racist.

Wow, talk about taking liberties with the truth.

[zrinkill]

You have got to be kidding me?????

:lmao2:

He only has had the highest ranking blacks in the history of the United States in his cabinet.

But somehow, him not attending the NAACP events make him racist.

Wow, talk about taking liberties with the truth.


Shhhh Thats just a cover Cajun.

He just hires them people to cover up his true racist feelings ....

The disrespect shown to Condalizza Rice as being an "uncle tom" is mind boggling. (not talking about anyone in particular on this forum .... just how liberals portray her in general)

[Cajuncowboy]

Shhhh Thats just a cover Cajun.

He just hires them people to cover up his true racist feelings ....

The disrespect shown to Condalizza Rice as being an "uncle tom" is mind boggling.

I swear people just bash Bush for the sake of it because it's in vogue and it makes them feel like they are doing the right thing. Without any real substance they work it into every conversation. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about the man knows he is not a racist.

He may be opinionated and sticks to his guns more than maybe he (politically) should but the last thing he is, is racist.

[ConcordCowboy]

I for one would love to see a black man as President, just not this black man.

Really to me, the color doesn't matter, but the content of the character, and that's what concerns me about Obama. He has associated with people like Wright, he has freinds who are terrorists and even his wife admitted that she had no pride in this country until her husband decided to run for prsident.

This is not the kind of person I want for president.

"If you were going to vote for Obama before this Wright stuff you still will and if you weren't well this changes nothing."


So I'll put you down for the latter category. :p:

[Cajuncowboy]

"If you were going to vote for Obama before this Wright stuff you still will and if you weren't well this changes nothing."


So I'll put you down for the latter category. :p:

Oh sure. No doubt, but he has way more going against him than Wright.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You have got to be kidding me?????

:lmao2:

He only has had the highest ranking blacks in the history of the United States in his cabinet.

But somehow, him not attending the NAACP events make him racist.

Wow, talk about taking liberties with the truth.

Please show me where I said he is racist? Can you point it out for me? Just put the words where I said he is racist in bold for me so I can see what I did not type.

I will be waiting with baited breath

Thanks

Or maybe, as usual, you just don't get what I am saying.

[Jordan55]

"If you were going to vote for Obama before this Wright stuff you still will and if you weren't well this changes nothing."


Concord, you better hope that he pulls a rabbit out of the hat in these two states North Carolina and Indiana or Hillary, will staking her claim to the nomination.
I think it would be safe to say after reading numerous posts, that no one
wants that on this board.

[ConcordCowboy]

Concord, you better hope that he pulls a rabbit out of the hat in these two states North Carolina and Indiana or Hillary, will staking her claim to the nomination.
I think it would be safe to say after reading numerous posts, that no one
wants that on this board.

He'll win those two.

[Jordan55]

He'll win those two.
I hope your right, because public perception has definitely changed on him
The Dems might vote Hillary now, because she now gives them the best chance to win the presidency.

[zrinkill]

Please show me where I said he is racist? Can you point it out for me? Just put the words where I said he is racist in bold for me so I can see what I did not type.

I will be waiting with baited breath


Probably in the same place were I said black people just need to shut up ....

Or maybe, "as usual", you don't get what I am saying?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Probably in the same place were I said black people just need to shut up ....

Or maybe, "as usual", you don't get what I am saying?

As usual is correct because instead of getting my point he is off on some tangent that I called bush a racist...which is not true, and by now people should know if I feel someone is a racist I make no bones about saying it about them.

I never said YOU said that people should shut up specifically. I said people with the mentality that we don't need to talk about it seem to have the mentality that they would rather they just shut up about it...which seems to be true. From your words you seem to fit into that category...so if I am wrong I am wrong and apologize, but it sure does seem that in a round about way you would rather them just shut up about it.

Concerning bush. The point I was making is how does it make people feel, who are already leery about the government concerning things, when the leader of the free world refuses to go to the NCAAP convention and talk when they ask him. While other presidents have went there and talked.

THAT was the point I was bringing up. That is just another reason why some black people do not trust the government and those in power...esp the republican party.

And you can argue all you want, but the republican party does not do a good job as a whole when it comes to dealing with race relations and earning the trust of the black people as a whole.

You will also see the "house negro" type of mentality that many black people feel towards those appointed by the current admin like Rice. If you know of the mentality and the reasons for it you might better understand why they believe that way. I am not saying it is the right way to feel, but there are reasons behind it.

But I don't recall ever calling bush a racist and as I said before I have no problems calling people that if it is how I feel about them.

Heck bush has probably done more the hispanic population than any of the recent Republicans, to some republicans dismay due to the border issues and illegal immigrant issues.

So please...someone find where I said bush was racist in that post or just agree that as usual, cajun did not understand what I was meaning.

Thanks

[Hostile]

He'll win those two.I hope you are right. I am pulling for him big time. I can live with either him or McCain as President. I don't even want to think about the third (or is it turd?) option.

[zrinkill]

I never said YOU said that people should shut up specifically. I said people with the mentality that we don't need to talk about it seem to have the mentality that they would rather they just shut up about it...which seems to be true. From your words you seem to fit into that category...so if I am wrong I am wrong and apologize, but it sure does seem that in a round about way you would rather them just shut up about it.

So saying that minorities preaching hate is the same as KKK leaders (your buddy Byrd) and other Racist hate mongers is telling black people to shut up? Saying that the Leaders of Minorities, whether black, brown, or off white need to stop leading our children into self destructive hatred the same as white racist leaders who raised generations into thinking we minorities were somehow subhuman.

I am all for talking about it ..... but the men who preach these things are not talking about it .... they are blindly leading their children into the same cycle of hate. Talking about it is finding common ground ..... not letting someone vent at you for something you did not do.

But for your benefit right now I will freely say this ....

Racist people need to stop spewing their hate. Be they White, Black, Brown, or some mixture.

If you have a problem with that Brain ..... sorry.

[ConcordCowboy]

I hope your right, because public perception has definitely changed on him
The Dems might vote Hillary now, because she now gives them the best chance to win the presidency.

I hope you are right. I am pulling for him big time. I can live with either him or McCain as President. I don't even want to think about the third (or is it turd?) option.

You guys will love this. :D


Hillary Clinton would beat McCain by 9 points, a new poll shows.



April 28, 2008

Poll shows Clinton has better shot of beating McCain

Hillary Clinton would beat McCain by 9 points, a new poll shows.

(CNN) – A new poll out Monday appears to bolster Hillary Clinton's argument that she is in a better position than rival Barack Obama to beat John McCain in a general election match up.

According to a newly-released poll from The Associated Press and Ipsos, Clinton would beat McCain by a wide 9-point margin, 50 percent to 41 percent. But when Obama faces McCain, the two are statistically tied — Obama holds a two point edge over McCain, within the poll's margin of error.

The Clinton campaign has long argued the New York senator has a better shot at beating McCain because of her demonstrated appeal with working class white voters — a demographic that is key to winning several swing states.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/28/poll-shows-clinton-has-better-shot-of-beating-mccain/

[Jordan55]

You guys will love this. :D


Hillary Clinton would beat McCain by 9 points, a new poll shows.



April 28, 2008

Poll shows Clinton has better shot of beating McCain

Hillary Clinton would beat McCain by 9 points, a new poll shows.

(CNN) – A new poll out Monday appears to bolster Hillary Clinton's argument that she is in a better position than rival Barack Obama to beat John McCain in a general election match up.

According to a newly-released poll from The Associated Press and Ipsos, Clinton would beat McCain by a wide 9-point margin, 50 percent to 41 percent. But when Obama faces McCain, the two are statistically tied — Obama holds a two point edge over McCain, within the poll's margin of error.

The Clinton campaign has long argued the New York senator has a better shot at beating McCain because of her demonstrated appeal with working class white voters — a demographic that is key to winning several swing states.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/28/poll-shows-clinton-has-better-shot-of-beating-mccain/

The bottom line for her is weather she wins, I guess win is the wrong word since she mathematically can't win the Democratic nomination, but should the Super Delegates turn on Barrack and she gets the nomination, then I believe the Dem. party will be in a serious state of discord.
There is going to be alot of pissed off supporters, that will resent her nomination. This up coming decision to be made by the Dems. for the next nominee could hurt the party for years to come, so he has to get the nomination.
It doesn't matter to me because, I still feel that McCain, has a great shot to defeat either one of them. Especially with the way it playing out.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So saying that minorities preaching hate is the same as KKK leaders (your buddy Byrd) and other Racist hate mongers is telling black people to shut up? Saying that the Leaders of Minorities, whether black, brown, or off white need to stop leading our children into self destructive hatred the same as white racist leaders who raised generations into thinking we minorities were somehow subhuman.

I am all for talking about it ..... but the men who preach these things are not talking about it .... they are blindly leading their children into the same cycle of hate. Talking about it is finding common ground ..... not letting someone vent at you for something you did not do.

But for your benefit right now I will freely say this ....

Racist people need to stop spewing their hate. Be they White, Black, Brown, or some mixture.

If you have a problem with that Brain ..... sorry.

I think I need a valium.

I have NEVER condoned racism. I don't condone what Wright has said.

What I AM saying is that there are reasons behind why some of the older black generation feels the way they do.

I have also said that there is nothing wrong with opening race talks instead of shutting people up and telling them to go away and that all is well.

In Another thread there was an Oped piece written about some guy that basically said...hey the blacks should be happy we brought them over in slave ships because they got it great now.

Do you honestly not see how that would offend some people? And if it did why should they not talk about it?

This is different than saying...you suck whitey and I hate you. I have NEVER condoned hate speech.

But you do have to go back and understand why many in a group of people have a certain frame of mind and how to work through that.

Just telling them to quit complaining about it instead of working through it is not going to do anything but make it worse because it will just further feed the feeling of being suppressed or oppressed by those people who are wanting to bring out the issues.

So I hope you get what I am trying to say but if not...oh well.

[zrinkill]

I think I need a valium.

I have NEVER condoned racism. I don't condone what Wright has said.

What I AM saying is that there are reasons behind why some of the older black generation feels the way they do.

I have also said that there is nothing wrong with opening race talks instead of shutting people up and telling them to go away and that all is well.

In Another thread there was an Oped piece written about some guy that basically said...hey the blacks should be happy we brought them over in slave ships because they got it great now.

Do you honestly not see how that would offend some people? And if it did why should they not talk about it?

This is different than saying...you suck whitey and I hate you. I have NEVER condoned hate speech.

But you do have to go back and understand why many in a group of people have a certain frame of mind and how to work through that.

Just telling them to quit complaining about it instead of working through it is not going to do anything but make it worse because it will just further feed the feeling of being suppressed or oppressed by those people who are wanting to bring out the issues.

So I hope you get what I am trying to say but if not...oh well.

My point Brain is that every race has reasons (sometimes justifiable) that they dislike another race.

It would be "reasonable" for a Japanese Americans to resent all Americans for when FDR put them in concentration camps.

It would be "reasonable" for a Native Americans to resent every other race for intruding on their peoples native land.

It is "reasonable" for African Americans to resent white people for all the countless injustices done to them as a race.

It would be "reasonable" for Jews to resent everyone for the constant genocide that has been attempted on them countless times.

It would be "reasonable" for Middle Eastern descent people do be resentful of everyone after they way they were treated after 9/11

It would be "reasonable" for Latinos to be resentful toward the United States for "stealing" Texas and using its people as cheap labor.

It would be "reasonable" for Europeans to be resentful toward Americans for being "traitors" to the crown.

It would be "reasonable" for the average "white" guy to be resentful of minorities for the constant labeling and anger they get dumped on them for something their ancestors did.

My question is when does it stop ..... should everyone just keep getting more and more pissed?

Pretty soon it wont matter ..... Because half breeds like me will rule the world. ;)


P.S. Love arguing with you Brain ..... you made this work day go by fast for me.

[BrAinPaiNt]

My point Brain is that every race has reasons (sometimes justifiable) that they dislike another race.

It would be "reasonable" for a Japanese Americans to resent all Americans for when FDR put them in concentration camps.

It would be "reasonable" for a Native Americans to resent every other race for intruding on their peoples native land.

It is "reasonable" for African Americans to resent white people for all the countless injustices done to them as a race.

It would be "reasonable" for Jews to resent everyone for the constant genocide that has been attempted on them countless times.

It would be "reasonable" for Middle Eastern descent people do be resentful of everyone after they way they were treated after 9/11

It would be "reasonable" for Latinos to be resentful toward the United States for "stealing" Texas and using its people as cheap labor.

It would be "reasonable" for Europeans to be resentful toward Americans for being "traitors" to the crown.

It would be "reasonable" for the average "white" guy to be resentful of minorities for the constant labeling and anger they get dumped on them for something their ancestors did.

My question is when does it stop ..... should everyone just keep getting more and more pissed?

Pretty soon it wont matter ..... Because half breeds like me will rule the world. ;)


P.S. Love arguing with you Brain ..... you made this work day go buy fast for me.

It will never stop if you brush it aside and that is part of my whole point.

People feel if they can not get open dialog and address the issues in a meaningful manner that they are not getting what they deserve...a chance to address a problem.

Sometimes all it takes is some people willing to listen and that is not always a bad thing.

I mean we do live in America. We do have the right to express our opinions and air our grievances.

Why is it so wrong to have an open dialog and let it happen instead of letting it sit and fester and get worse in the long run?

[REDVOLUTION]

Monday
"I wasnt there when he said those things"

Tuesday
"I was there, but they were taken out of context"

Wednesday
"I denounce all that he said "in context""

Thursday
" - - -"

Friday
" - - -"


Anyone have the other iterations? :laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

Please show me where I said he is racist? Can you point it out for me? Just put the words where I said he is racist in bold for me so I can see what I did not type.

I will be waiting with baited breath

Thanks

Or maybe, as usual, you just don't get what I am saying.

Holy cow Brain I quoted it. You were equating Bush not going to some NAACP thing as being racist. Read your own post. That is exactly what you said, not me.

Now, unbait your breath.

[Cajuncowboy]

Seeing as we still have a senator who was a member of the KKK in DC. Seeing how some racist still run state or local government. Seeing how the current president has refused to go to NCAAP meetings for Presidents or candidates. Seeing how there is still racism today by many in the US...yes I could see people still being wary of the government and other people.

You keep wanting to act like it is ok or not ok, to just dismiss it.

I am saying why some people still are wary of it.

You were treated with racism in your past, now you are a super guy and nothing bothers you about it. You are good to go, just because you have gotten over it does not mean people who were growing up during lynching, cross burning and other racists acts can get over it and just shut their traps because YOU or OTHERS just don't want to hear it.

Geez I don't get what you don't get with my explaining why some of the older generations feel the way they do. This is not just about someone not liking you dating their daughter. This was about people who have seen pure hatred and where they had to FIGHT to get their freedoms and still have to fight to get some respect.

This is only about explaining why some still feel this way. Good lord if I saw a family member hung on a tree or had a cross burning outside my house, if I seen my daughter killed and knew the cops did nothing about it because they were in on it and the mayor would not do anything about it because he also was a high ranking member of the KKK...I think I would still be bitter.

There are some things in life that some people just don't forget or forgive. And to expect them just to shut their yaps because you or others don't want to hear it...if I was them maybe I would tell you...Too bad if you don't want to hear it. I have issues I want to talk about.

Now I am sure you will give me a comeback about how they should still get over it just because you did...however all people are not wired the same, all people do not have the same degree of exp. So maybe, just maybe, they don't think they should have to just shut up about it like you want them to.

I quoted the whole thing again for you since you forgot what you typed. And I even bolded, italicized and underlined the part in question.


YOU, put Bush right between the KKK comment and racism in America.

YOU did that. You may be trying to dance your way out of it now because you know you were wrong but that IS what you did.

[theebs]

this is what happens when you mix religion with politics in the modern world.

This is why I wont vote for anyone who has a pastor. If you go to mass, worship, church or whatever you call it that is fine.

When you have a "pastor" I have to check out on you. I feel for obama. He is putting his religion on the table which is something democrats tend to try and not do and this is what he gets for it. Republicans have crazy pastors running around all over the country. No one cares though because most of them are southern white guys. A northern black pastor with radical ideas and thoughts is no worse than the radical southern white pastor, except he stands out and is an easy target.

I hope in the future we get some candidates who just simply shrug off religion. Worry about the economy, the environment, health care, foreign relations and the employment rate. It would be nice to hear someone who has the guts to just shrug it off. And note I am not saying they shouldnt be a religious or spiritual person but that they shouldnt use it in the political field.

Flame away.

[Cajuncowboy]

this is what happens when you mix religion with politics in the modern world.

This is why I wont vote for anyone who has a pastor. If you go to mass, worship, church or whatever you call it that is fine.

When you have a "pastor" I have to check out on you. I feel for obama. He is putting his religion on the table which is something democrats tend to try and not do and this is what he gets for it. Republicans have crazy pastors running around all over the country. No one cares though because most of them are southern white guys. A northern black pastor with radical ideas and thoughts is no worse than the radical southern white pastor, except he stands out and is an easy target.

I hope in the future we get some candidates who just simply shrug off religion. Worry about the economy, the environment, health care, foreign relations and the employment rate. It would be nice to hear someone who has the guts to just shrug it off. And note I am not saying they shouldnt be a religious or spiritual person but that they shouldnt use it in the political field.

Flame away.


:lmao2:

[BrAinPaiNt]

I quoted the whole thing again for you since you forgot what you typed. And I even bolded, italicized and underlined the part in question.


YOU, put Bush right between the KKK comment and racism in America.

YOU did that. You may be trying to dance your way out of it now because you know you were wrong but that IS what you did.

Tell me again where I said..>BUSH IS RACIST.

You can't because I never did.

Thanks for trying though.

I gave examples of why some black people still do not trust government.

Please again find where I said bush is racist in ANY post in my history of posting in the political zone. Once again you can not, why, because i never have.

Keep trying, you want find it.

next

[BrAinPaiNt]

Holy cow Brain I quoted it. You were equating Bush not going to some NAACP thing as being racist. Read your own post. That is exactly what you said, not me.

Now, unbait your breath.

I was not equating bush with not going to the NCAAP as racist. I WAS equating how that could make black people not trust big government because when the highest person in the land in the most power country in the world refuses to go meet and speak in their convention it makes them wonder why won't he come and speak and if he does not come and speak can we trust him to have any of our best interests at heart.

So...I never said he is a racist.

For as long as you have known me on this board I have never been one to shy away from calling ANYONE a racist who I believe is a racist. I flat out say I think <insert name here> is a racist.

Now if that is the case...if I believed bush is a racist I would flat out say...I think he is a Racist. Now why is it I have not done that cajun?!?!?!!

Hmmm.

[Hostile]

My apologies folks. I accidently closed this thread. I sometimes double click on forums to mark them as already read. But if you try that with individual threads and are a Mod it closes the thread.

Sorry about that.

[Cajuncowboy]

I was not equating bush with not going to the NCAAP as racist. I WAS equating how that could make black people not trust big government because when the highest person in the land in the most power country in the world refuses to go meet and speak in their convention it makes them wonder why won't he come and speak and if he does not come and speak can we trust him to have any of our best interests at heart.

So...I never said he is a racist.

For as long as you have known me on this board I have never been one to shy away from calling ANYONE a racist who I believe is a racist. I flat out say I think <insert name here> is a racist.

Now if that is the case...if I believed bush is a racist I would flat out say...I think he is a Racist. Now why is it I have not done that cajun?!?!?!!

Hmmm.

I didn't say you said he was racist. I said you implied it with the way you stated it. You had racist overtones in the statements all around it and added that him not going would somehow be vied as racist.

Either way, all I know is that it is unfair to point that kind of finger at him whether or not you meant it, you still implied it inadvertently or not.

[Doomsday101]

I will say this Rev Wrights comments would have been considered racist had a white person said them. His comments about white kids learn different than black kids because they use a different part of their brain to learn and where the white kid will sit at his desk and listen the black kid need to moving around and be active because they learn differently is the same argument that white supremacists used in the 50's to support segregation and yet members of the NAACP stood up and applauded him?

[BrAinPaiNt]

I didn't say you said he was racist. I said you implied it with the way you stated it. You had racist overtones in the statements all around it and added that him not going would somehow be vied as racist.

Either way, all I know is that it is unfair to point that kind of finger at him whether or not you meant it, you still implied it inadvertently or not.

I never implied it either, YOU implied it from my post. I can see why you did but it was not my intent.

My intent was only what I said. It does make black people wonder if the President cares about their problems if he refuses to go to those conventions and speak.

That was my only point.

[Cajuncowboy]

I never implied it either, YOU implied it from my post. I can see why you did but it was not my intent.

My intent was only what I said. It does make black people wonder if the President cares about their problems if he refuses to go to those conventions and speak.

That was my only point.

IF that was your point then you made it poorly. In answer to that...

If Bush not going to the NAACP Hoot-N-Nanny makes them think he cares less about them then they have some serious issues like listening to the NAACP.

They have touted the democrats agenda forever and they still claim they are not getting results, but yet they never ever switch their allegiance. Why? Because they were sold a bill of goods by the democrats and they refuse to look at reality.

Personally, I would hope that all presidents stay away from this shindig. All anyone needs to do is look at a man's actions and see what he is about. They don't need the likes of Julian Bond and Roslyn Brock telling them how to think.

[Doomsday101]

I never implied it either, YOU implied it from my post. I can see why you did but it was not my intent.

My intent was only what I said. It does make black people wonder if the President cares about their problems if he refuses to go to those conventions and speak.

That was my only point.

Bush did meet with the Urban League that year. While he did not meet with the NAACP that in large part was because of the constant attack by the chairman of the NAACP Julian Bond. It is funny the Bush cabinet has been more racially diversified than any other President when you look from 2000 to now.

[Dallas]

http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/insp_diplomacy.jpg

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/insp_diplomacy.jpg

:lmao2: :lmao2: