American Oil...

[vta]

Does anyone agree, with what this guy say's?

------

Shell Oil president: To cut price, produce more gasoline in U.S. (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/30/shell.qa/index.html)

(CNN) -- Gasoline prices set a record for the 16th consecutive day Wednesday. A gallon of gas cost an average of $3.62, according to AAA, and much more in some markets.

Shell Oil Co. President John Hofmeister says a boost in U.S. production would startle the world market.

All three presidential candidates have weighed in on the issue, and President Bush on Tuesday addressed it during a news conference.

John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co., the U.S. division of Royal Dutch Shell, addressed rising gasoline prices during an interview Wednesday with John Roberts on CNN's "American Morning."

ROBERTS: What do you say to people who are in this budget crunch of trying to fill up the family car?

HOFMEISTER: I say we need more gas to be produced in this country. I've been saying that for three years, ever since I took this position [as president of Shell].

If the U.S. set a goal to produce 2 to 3 million barrels more a day in this country, we would send a shock around the world that would immediately say to the speculators, hey, U.S. is serious. President [Bush] said something yesterday about this. I didn't hear him, but I think that's good news. But we should set a specific target.

The presidential candidates should be out there on the postings saying let's increase domestic production by 2 to 3 million barrels a day. That would be something that would put money back into this country, jobs back into this country, and it would bring more supply toward the Americans who need it.

ROBERTS: The president is advocating more drilling on U.S. territory. Isn't it true that globally we're starting to reach a peak in production and that within maybe a decade or two oil production will begin to decrease?

HOFMEISTER: Well, I think there is some argument [that] with convenient, easy oil we will peak sometime in the next decade. I think Shell sees that coming, but in terms of total oil supply to the world, we're a long way from reaching peak oil because it doesn't take into account unconventional oil.

I think the president brings up a good point in that we could, we have the available domestic supplies off the coast of Alaska as well as [the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge]. Shell has won $2 billion worth of high bids for the Chukchi Sea -- that's a few years off before we could begin production.

But let's remember there's more than 100 billion barrels of untouched oil and gas in this country that is subject to a 30-year moratorium. Now, there's only one body in this country that can set a 30-year moratorium, and that's the U.S. government.

ROBERTS: Sen. Hillary Clinton wants to slap you with a 50 percent tax on what she calls windfall profit, profit above a certain level. Is that a good idea?

HOFMEISTER: Look at our revenues and our income for the last quarter. If we had made $7.8 million on $114 million of revenue, nobody would call that excessive, because that's 7½ percent. We made $7.8 billion profit on $114 billion revenue -- same 7½ percent. So to me that is not an excessive number when banks and pharmaceuticals and IT companies earn a whole lot more.

ROBERTS: Would it hurt you if she put in place this tax on the windfall profits?

HOFMEISTER: Sure it would. It would slow down investment. Taxing the oil companies was tried in the '80s. It drove us to do imports, which is exactly the problem we have today.

ROBERTS: Where is the top of all this? How high can the price of a barrel of oil go? How high will the cost of a gallon of gasoline go?

HOFMEISTER: I heard somebody say the other day it's as long as a piece of string. We don't know.

ROBERTS: The president of OPEC said $200 a barrel.

HOFMEISTER: Yeah, well, there are some countries out there subsidizing the cost of their energy to their consumers and industries to compete with America -- or against America -- because they think America won't solve the problem.

ROBERTS: You're saying you have no idea where the top is.

HOFMEISTER: We don't know. But we should produce more oil in this country.

[BrAinPaiNt]

It's good in theory and makes perfect sense.

However I would bet money that even if they did do so they would still manage to keep the prices about the same as they are now.

Once prices get to a certain point they rarely ever go down to another. They just gradually get more and more and I just don't see US oil/gas companies wanting to lower the prices much when they could keep them about the same and make even more of a killing.

Oil companies do not have OUR interests at heart, only their own as they are a business who is used to getting it's way.

[vta]

It's good in theory and makes perfect sense.

However I would bet money that even if they did do so they would still manage to keep the prices about the same as they are now.

Once prices get to a certain point they rarely ever go down to another. They just gradually get more and more and I just don't see US oil/gas companies wanting to lower the prices much when they could keep them about the same and make even more of a killing.

Oil companies do not have OUR interests at heart, only their own as they are a business who is used to getting it's way.

Unfortunately, that sounds a lot like the awful truth.
Despite the real damage it is doing to our economy, the overall good will get trampled, if the oil companies are left to their own discretion.

The question is, would politician's be able/inclined to force them to lower prices, once a program like lthis got started?

[Doomsday101]

I'm all for more domestic drilling and yes I do think it will have an effect over oil prices as US will be buying less from OPEC countries.

[CowboyFan74]

It's good in theory and makes perfect sense.

However I would bet money that even if they did do so they would still manage to keep the prices about the same as they are now.

Once prices get to a certain point they rarely ever go down to another. They just gradually get more and more and I just don't see US oil/gas companies wanting to lower the prices much when they could keep them about the same and make even more of a killing.

Oil companies do not have OUR interests at heart, only their own as they are a business who is used to getting it's way.

It's about supply and demand. If we were able to produce our own fuels then the world would have come down on their prices to compete, it's that simple.

We need more of our own refineries and we need to drill more wells, if we can't do that we can't compete and if we can't compete then we are at 3rd world countries mercies. And we all know that the world has no pity on the "Great Whore."

We also need to lower taxes so that companies aren't forced to go over seas for production, which in turn would allow US citizens to create more jobs that would "boost" our economy, which is what everyone is always crying about.

Don't over tax the citizens or they will go elsewhere, it's that simple.

[PosterChild]

This has been well-recognized for a long time by most informed people. Increasing our capacity will serve to lower our costs. It's pretty basic.

Re: the message here: Instead of focusing on the obvious rising cost of the "family car trip" the better question/scenario would be to point out how high fuel costs sets in motion events which lead to wholesale escalating consumer goods prices. For instance, I just placed an order with a regular vendor who informed me that the freight carrier would impose a fuel surcharge to my order, which I was responsible for If I agreed...and I will in turn pass that incremental cost along, and so on...There's really nothing that won't be touched by our inefficiencies in this market, and we have to first be properly informed of the problem before we begin to address solutions. I think this highlights the scope of the problem, not just the obvious one, and ideally would be a more effective approach.

Of course, there are those who cling to he notion (not guns/religion/antipathy) that greedy oil companies alone are to blame but that is nonproductive and erroneous.

[CowboyFan74]

Unfortunately, that sounds a lot like the awful truth.
Despite the real damage it is doing to our economy, the overall good will get trampled, if the oil companies are left to their own discretion.

The question is, would politician's be able/inclined to force them to lower prices, once a program like lthis got started?

What you're really saying is will the govt stab itself in the leg to spite it's foot? 1st of all the government has no business telling anybody what they can or can't do with their business unless it's a threat to the safety of it's citizens. This isn't Russia it's America. The real issue here is that these dirty politicians would rather take cash bribes from foreigners to keep America down.

We need to lower taxes on our own production and put tariffs on what foreigners bring in. That will drive the prices down and create jobs here on our own soil because we won't need them so much. And it can happen if somebody starts preaching it!! The govt is stealing from us and we gotta bring our collective minds together and stamp it out. Teach your children that it's not the govt's responsibility to regulate everything or pay for everybody's way. We need to be accountable for ourselves and stop relying on the govt to bail everyone out. That's how they steal from us because they always take some cream off the top for themselves....

[zrinkill]

Beyond just the prices ..... this is necessary to get us from being dependent on foreign oil.

Gas price will never get below 2 dollars again ...... no matter what.

[BrAinPaiNt]

It's about supply and demand. If we were able to produce our own fuels then the world would have come down on their prices to compete, it's that simple.

We need more of our own refineries and we need to drill more wells, if we can't do that we can't compete and if we can't compete then we are at 3rd world countries mercies. And we all know that the world has no pity on the "Great Whore."

We also need to lower taxes so that companies aren't forced to go over seas for production, which in turn would allow US citizens to create more jobs that would "boost" our economy, which is what everyone is always crying about.

Don't over tax the citizens or they will go elsewhere, it's that simple.

If we could produce our own fuels, non oil related, then we would not have to worry about the oil industry anymore so the competition aspect flies out the window.

As it is right now we can not seem to break away from it.

I still say that no matter what the oil industry is not going to "help" us out much because that is money out of their own pockets and why should they take money out of their own pockets.

They are like a crack dealer and we are the crackheads that need that rock, only difference is we don't have a way, as of right now, to buck the addiction.

[DFWJC]

I'm sure everyone here knows this, but just in case....

Oil companies do NOT set the price oil. Supply and Demand , the open market, mixed with the little monster called OPEC set the price. Always has, always will.

Furthermore, the Shell guy's comment about profit margin is true too. Most major oil companies make about 5-10% in these "good" times. Otehr industries have margins that dwarf that. Of course those smaller margins still add up to large numbers.

We just need to keep moving steadily toward alternatives so we have diversified sources of energy.....eventually, we'll be off the "rock" as Brainpaint said.

[Doomsday101]

If we could produce our own fuels, non oil related, then we would not have to worry about the oil industry anymore so the competition aspect flies out the window.

As it is right now we can not seem to break away from it.

I still say that no matter what the oil industry is not going to "help" us out much because that is money out of their own pockets and why should they take money out of their own pockets.

They are like a crack dealer and we are the crackheads that need that rock, only difference is we don't have a way, as of right now, to buck the addiction.

The oil companies are not setting the price OPEC is and to lower their prices the US one of the biggest buyers needs to start drilling domestically which would lower the demand and the prices

[zrinkill]

I'm sure everyone here knows this, but just in case....

No they dont.

[trickblue]

The futures market is driving the price of oil...

[BrAinPaiNt]

The oil companies are not setting the price OPEC is and to lower their prices the US one of the biggest buyers needs to start drilling domestically which would lower the demand and the prices

If Opec sets the price, and the Oil industry has nothing to do with the price.

Why is the price of gas in the US so much cheaper over the years compared to England and some others?

I mean if Opec is setting the price shouldn't it be about the same price for everybody?

[Doomsday101]

If Opec sets the price, and the Oil industry has nothing to do with the price.

Why is the price of gas in the US so much cheaper over the years compared to England and some others?

I mean if Opec is setting the price shouldn't it be about the same price for everybody?

Because Europe puts a lot more taxes on gas than we do. European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline

[zrinkill]

Because Europe puts a lot more taxes on gas than we do. European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline

If the environmentalist had there way it would be the same here.

But its easier to blame the big scary oil company than Al Gore and his nut fringe followers. ;)

[Doomsday101]

If the environmentalist had there way it would be the same here.

But its easier to blame the big scary oil company than Al Gore and his nut fringe followers. ;)

It has been part of our history to demonize industry. We see a raw profit number but we don't see the money that is going back in to R@D and exploration the money of bringing the product to market and the lack of refineries. Our population has increased tremendously since the 70's yet new refineries have not. I worked for a directional drilling company when I got out of college these oil companies spend big money in bringing oil to the market, they are not just sitting on a big nest egg of cash.

[REDVOLUTION]

Furthermore, the Shell guy's comment about profit margin is true too. Most major oil companies make about 5-10% in these "good" times. Otehr industries have margins that dwarf that. Of course those smaller margins still add up to large numbers.


Is that all it is? 5-10%? Are you sure?
I remember hearing that Oil companies are making $5B dollar surpluses per quarter or something like that?

Any explanation or light you could shed would be appreciated.




We just need to keep moving steadily toward alternatives so we have diversified sources of energy.....eventually, we'll be off the "rock" as Brainpaint said.

Well I believe that is part of the Fuel price problem. In 10 years(maybe more, maybe less) we wont be dependent on fuel. THEY KNOW THIS.

THAT is part of the reason for the GOUGING. Gotta get their money now while they can.

[Doomsday101]

Is that all it is? 5-10%? Are you sure?
I remember hearing that Oil companies are making $5B dollar surpluses per quarter or something like that?

Any explanation or light you could shed would be appreciated.





Well I believe that is part of the Fuel price problem. In 10 years(maybe more, maybe less) we wont be dependent on fuel. THEY KNOW THIS.

THAT is part of the reason for the GOUGING. Gotta get their money now while they can.

Their profit margin is about 10% depending on which company you are looking at Exxon/Mobil was the highest at 11% compare that to other business and that is why congress can't find any price gouging by the oil companies yet they continue to hold these hearings but the results end up being the same.

[Dallas]

One of the most common misconceptions about OPEC is that the Organization is responsible for setting crude oil prices. Although OPEC did in fact set crude oil prices from the early 1970s to the mid-1980s, this is no longer the case. It is true that OPEC's Member Countries do voluntary restrain their crude oil production in order to stabilize the oil market and avoid harmful and unnecessary price fluctuations, but this is not the same thing as setting prices.


In today's complex global markets, the price of crude oil is set by movements on the three major international petroleum exchanges, all of which have their own Web sites featuring information about oil prices. They are the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX, http://www.nymex.com (http://www.nymex.com/)), the International Petroleum Exchange in London (IPE, http://www.ipe.uk.com (http://www.opec.org/library/FAQs/aboutOPEC/q20.htm#)) and the Singapore International Monetary Exchange (SIMEX, http://www.simex.com.sg (http://www.simex.com.sg/)).


The Web sites of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA, http://www.iea.org (http://www.iea.org/)) and the US Energy Information Administration (EIA, http://www.eia.doe.gov (http://www.eia.doe.gov/)), also have extensive historical information on oil prices.


Fact is the US needs to allow a few more refineries to be built. The Democrats and even some Republicans will not allow that. They will also not allow further expansion of the current infrastructure in the US. They will not allow ANWR to be developed. The latter probably woudn't have an immediate impact for at least 8-10 years, but it would have a substantial impact on our blatant need for foreign oil once it online. The best bet for the US right now is to develop at least 3 more refineries immediately. Our dollar isn't helping us at all right now either. That is another reason why oil is so high.

Please understand how oil prices are set before you start attacking the oil companies of the US and elsewhere. All the oil companies do is fill the pipes and allow the other 3 men at the end of the pipe to set the price. If you want to take your wrath out on someone then you need to do it to IMEX, IPE and SIMEX.

Bottom line. Our congress and government leaders would rather see us all writhe in pain at paying these rediculous gas prices than to allow the responsible and controlled exploration and development of our own US natural resources.

The country needs to be weened off of big oil. I am all for that. It will not happen tomorrow and we need help now. So the now should be for the US to stop depending on FOREIGN oil to fill it's need and start looking at it's own resources right here in its own backyard or arctic wilderness.

[Doomsday101]

Exxon's profit margins are below-average compared with others that have triggered no outcry. Exxon's first-quarter profit margin was 9.4%, meaning it kept 9.4 cents of every $1 in revenue. Microsoft kept 27.3 cents of every $1 in revenue in its most recent quarter; General Electric, 11.4 cents and McDonald's, 12.3 cents. In fact, Exxon is below the 11-cent average of Standard & Poor's 500 companies, says analyst Howard Silverblatt.

[ologan]

This has been well-recognized for a long time by most informed people. Increasing our capacity will serve to lower our costs. It's pretty basic.

Re: the message here: Instead of focusing on the obvious rising cost of the "family car trip" the better question/scenario would be to point out how high fuel costs sets in motion events which lead to wholesale escalating consumer goods prices. For instance, I just placed an order with a regular vendor who informed me that the freight carrier would impose a fuel surcharge to my order, which I was responsible for If I agreed...and I will in turn pass that incremental cost along, and so on...There's really nothing that won't be touched by our inefficiencies in this market, and we have to first be properly informed of the problem before we begin to address solutions. I think this highlights the scope of the problem, not just the obvious one, and ideally would be a more effective approach.

Of course, there are those who cling to he notion (not guns/religion/antipathy) that greedy oil companies alone are to blame but that is nonproductive and erroneous.

:hammer:

[BrAinPaiNt]

Because Europe puts a lot more taxes on gas than we do. European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline

And yet we ourselves have a Federal tax and (at least where I live) a State tax on every gallon of gas.

But at the same time we give tax breaks to...not the people, the oil industry.

So basically Opec is not the only one setting the price for oil, it would seem so are the oil companies, the federal and state.

[ologan]

Right now,I'd feel a little better if we were only two years away from seeing oil coming from ANWR ,instead of ten years...When they finally realize that we need that oil. I know that the oil there is not the total answer to energy independence,but it sure as hell won't hurt to have that option.

[Doomsday101]

And yet we ourselves have a Federal tax and (at least where I live) a State tax on every gallon of gas.

But at the same time we give tax breaks to...not the people, the oil industry.

So basically Opec is not the only one setting the price for oil, it would seem so are the oil companies, the federal and state.

Those tax breaks are given to other companies as well yet it is the oil company being singled out and no the oil company is not setting the price. States do tax at a different rate which is why California pays more than say the state of Texas. Sorry you want to make the oil company out to be the monster that is a load of garbage and BS that politician have been selling to the public go look at the facts when a company profit margin is lower than many other business there is no way in hell they can be accused of price gouging.

As I said another issue is refineries our population is much greater now than in the 70's but state and fed regulations have prevented oil companies from building new refineries so how do you keep up with a ever growing population and demand? Sorry this is another trumped up demonize the bad industry when we should be looking at these regulations that hurt business and drive up the cost.

[Doomsday101]

Right now,I'd feel a little better if we were only two years away from seeing oil coming from ANWR ,instead of ten years...When they finally realize that we need that oil. I know that the oil there is not the total answer to energy independence,but it sure as hell won't hurt to have that option.

I agree. I'm sick of hearing liberal talk about getting away from Middle Eastern oil and yet throw a hissy fit about not wanting to drill in our own country. You can't have it both ways and right now there is no magic alternative that is going to replace gas and oil.

[CowboyFan74]

One of the most common misconceptions about OPEC is that the Organization is responsible for setting crude oil prices. Although OPEC did in fact set crude oil prices from the early 1970s to the mid-1980s, this is no longer the case. It is true that OPEC's Member Countries do voluntary restrain their crude oil production in order to stabilize the oil market and avoid harmful and unnecessary price fluctuations, but this is not the same thing as setting prices.


In today's complex global markets, the price of crude oil is set by movements on the three major international petroleum exchanges, all of which have their own Web sites featuring information about oil prices. They are the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX, http://www.nymex.com (http://www.nymex.com/)), the International Petroleum Exchange in London (IPE, http://www.ipe.uk.com (http://www.opec.org/library/FAQs/aboutOPEC/q20.htm#)) and the Singapore International Monetary Exchange (SIMEX, http://www.simex.com.sg (http://www.simex.com.sg/)).


The Web sites of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA, http://www.iea.org (http://www.iea.org/)) and the US Energy Information Administration (EIA, http://www.eia.doe.gov (http://www.eia.doe.gov/)), also have extensive historical information on oil prices.


Fact is the US needs to allow a few more refineries to be built. The Democrats and even some Republicans will not allow that. They will also not allow further expansion of the current infrastructure in the US. They will not allow ANWR to be developed. The latter probably woudn't have an immediate impact for at least 8-10 years, but it would have a substantial impact on our blatant need for foreign oil once it online. The best bet for the US right now is to develop at least 3 more refineries immediately. Our dollar isn't helping us at all right now either. That is another reason why oil is so high.

Please understand how oil prices are set before you start attacking the oil companies of the US and elsewhere. All the oil companies do is fill the pipes and allow the other 3 men at the end of the pipe to set the price. If you want to take your wrath out on someone then you need to do it to IMEX, IPE and SIMEX.

Bottom line. Our congress and government leaders would rather see us all writhe in pain at paying these rediculous gas prices than to allow the responsible and controlled exploration and development of our own US natural resources.

The country needs to be weened off of big oil. I am all for that. It will not happen tomorrow and we need help now. So the now should be for the US to stop depending on FOREIGN oil to fill it's need and start looking at it's own resources right here in its own backyard or arctic wilderness.


But I prefer to demonize those who have nothing to do with it because that's what the majority of America and the media tells me to do!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Don't you get that?:rolleyes:

[REDVOLUTION]

Their profit margin is about 10% depending on which company you are looking at Exxon/Mobil was the highest at 11% compare that to other business and that is why congress can't find any price gouging by the oil companies yet they continue to hold these hearings but the results end up being the same.


So whats the deal with the surplus?

[Doomsday101]

So whats the deal with the surplus?

Are you talking about the Strategic reserve? That was put in place in the 70's by the Government after we went through the oil embargo which sent gas lines backing up for miles? The strategic reserve is to counter any severe supply interruption that we saw before

[CowboyFan74]

Are you talking about the Strategic reserve? That was put in place in the 70's by the Government after we went through the oil embargo which sent gas lines backing up for miles? The strategic reserve is to counter any severe supply interruption that we saw before

Well then let's pray we are forced to use it so we can start drilling tomorrow and build some local refineries..

[REDVOLUTION]

Are you talking about the Strategic reserve? That was put in place in the 70's by the Government after we went through the oil embargo which sent gas lines backing up for miles? The strategic reserve is to counter any severe supply interruption that we saw before


No. I was talking money not oil.


Maybe you can explain it to me based on this...

I remember hearing that the oil companies made a $5B dollar surplus last year in the first quarter - - something like that... maybe you can make sense of it.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Those tax breaks are given to other companies as well yet it is the oil company being singled out and no the oil company is not setting the price. States do tax at a different rate which is why California pays more than say the state of Texas. Sorry you want to make the oil company out to be the monster that is a load of garbage and BS that politician have been selling to the public go look at the facts when a company profit margin is lower than many other business there is no way in hell they can be accused of price gouging.

As I said another issue is refineries our population is much greater now than in the 70's but state and fed regulations have prevented oil companies from building new refineries so how do you keep up with a ever growing population and demand? Sorry this is another trumped up demonize the bad industry when we should be looking at these regulations that hurt business and drive up the cost.

Here is the difference between OIL companies and OTHER companies.

If I don't want to use Microsoft, I can go and buy linux to use as an OS.

If I don't like Intel CPUs because I think they cost to much I can go Buy AMD or others.

If I don't like one grocery store because of high prices I can go to another grocery store chain with cheaper prices.

If I don't like BMV because they cost to much I can always find a cheaper car.

Now tell me, where in the heck can I go and buy gas for about 2-3 dollars a gallon as opposed to $3.75-4 a gallon? Where is that because I have went to three towns in my county and they are all about the same with $3.75 a gallon.

So give me a break about other companies getting tax breaks like the oil companies get because it is not working for me at all.

The oil companies are all about themselves and it does not help when you have the government in it's back pocket with secret back room deals with the VP before you go before congress to answer questions. It does not hurt when you have the President up there some time ago and a reporter asks about gas being a certain price now and he nonchalantly says...really I didn't realize it was that much.

It doesn't help when our dollar value is going down the tubes.

Look I don't blame everything on the oil industry but please don't feed me a bunch of BS that they have nothing to do with the problems and expect me to swallow it down with a smile.

And we get the same old BS of build more refineries and it would be cheaper.

Here we are screaming for alternate fuel sources and all people can do is defend the oil companies like they are crack addicted and just don't want to get off the rock.

You know back in the 70's with that fuel problem, Carter went on blabbing about needing to get away from oil and yet in 30+ years here we are still dependent on oil.

If we put even 1/4 of the money into alternate fuel research as we do in military occupations of Iraq we would probably have a solution by now.

Heck we did have the electric car some years back but the oil and auto industry scrapped it. The few people that owned it BEGGED for the auto manufacturer to let them buy the car (as they only leased it) but they refused. They took ALL of those cars, sent them to a scrap yard and destroyed them instead of letting people keep using the cars. Well wait, that was wrong they destroyed all but ONE car. They let one car go to an auto museum but only after they took out the engine and system.

Keep telling me the oil industry is innocent of everything. Keep giving the crack dealer his money.

Please, I am sorry but that is a bunch of BS.

Would not shock me of the strongest supporters of big oil are also stock holders.

I mean man alive we can send a man to the moon but we are led to believe we can not come up with an alternate fuel or vehicle that is not dependent on gasoline? SERIOUSLY?! And the one time they do build a car that does not require oil the scrap them all.

Lord forbid we make electricity out of Solar panels, Wind mills and hydro plants. I mean it is just a buttload of acres in wasteland in parts of the south west and someone would think that they could fill up acres upon acres of solar panels and wind technology to capture that abundant energy. Not only to get electric to cities but also electric stations for cars or added electric use for homes with setups to hook cars up to.

Problem with that is that it does not only take the power of Oil companies from the gasoline market but it also takes out Oil from the car. Plus it puts a crink in many of the auto part manufacturers as they won't be selling parts to a eternal combustion gas engine, exhaust parts and many other areas they make money from.

So sorry...saying the Oil companies are innocent of everything is a crock of bs that I am not willing to swallow.

[theogt]

The idea that adding just 2 million barrels a day to production would significantly reduce the amount of speculation in oil prices is not unconventional or controversial.

[trickblue]

Here is the difference between OIL companies and OTHER companies.

If I don't want to use Microsoft, I can go and buy linux to use as an OS.

If I don't like Intel CPUs because I think they cost to much I can go Buy AMD or others.

If I don't like one grocery store because of high prices I can go to another grocery store chain with cheaper prices.

If I don't like BMW because they cost to much I can always find a cheaper car.

If you don't like petroleum cars, run one on propane or natural gas... they've been doing that for years...

[burmafrd]

You notice Brain refuses to address the problems caused by not allowing drilling, putting up ro s to build new refineries, 23 blends of gas mandated by various cities, etc.

Why?

Because that is all due to his liberal friends and the environmentalists.

Just like a defense attorney Brain always gives only half the story.

[notherbob]

My wife and I saw this coming years ago and when our chevy wore out, we bought a Toyota Corolla that gets around 35 MPG. The gas isn't any cheaper for us but we can drive twice as far on a gallon as our old Chevy.

Our next vehicle will probably be some kind of hybrid that gets even better mileage. For us, fuel economy is more important than driving a big gas guzzling muscle car. About the only thing the average person can do to lessen the blow on the family budget is to drive a more fuel efficient car.

If we could have found an American car that was as well designed and built and got that kind of mileage, we would have bought it, but we couldn't. While there is a Toyota factory in the USA, ours was built in Canada. Ford, GM and Chrysler don't advertise quality and fuel efficiency, they advertise big cars with power out the kazoo and their commercials feature fast, reckless and wild driving with loud rock music. Does the word hemi sound familiar? Sometimes bigger is better but not always. How much good does all that gas guzzling power do when you'er stuck in rush hours traffic?

It's something to think about - we have to look out for ourselves, the big three aren't going to look out for us. Their ads seem to be aimed more at NASCAR drivers than people who drive on the public streets and highways.

It's not just OPEC and Big Oil, our egos are part of the problem, too.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You notice Brain refuses to address the problems caused by not allowing drilling, putting up ro s to build new refineries, 23 blends of gas mandated by various cities, etc.

Why?

Because that is all due to his liberal friends and the environmentalists.

Just like a defense attorney Brain always gives only half the story.

I am not a tree hugger but as usually your one sided views of life lead you to believe that...imagine that.

The point is we are giving every excuse to keep ourselves Dependant on oil when we should be putting our money to find alternate energies.

But I don't expect you to get that because you can't think for yourself if it does not come from a neocon playbook.

[BrAinPaiNt]

If you don't like petroleum cars, run one on propane or natural gas... they've been doing that for years...

Yes...they sell them at every car dealership. I mean heck I could pick up the newspaper and look in the for sale section and find one of these cars easily.

<sarcasm off>

And once again we go from one limited resource that costs too much to another with your propane and natural gas.

Why do we need to try and keep going with things that are not renewable when we have Hydro, wind and solar power?

Furthermore the cost of natural gas and propane has been going up as well.

[BrAinPaiNt]

My wife and I saw this coming years ago and when our chevy wore out, we bought a Toyota Corolla that gets around 35 MPG. The gas isn't any cheaper for us but we can drive twice as far on a gallon as our old Chevy.

Our next vehicle will probably be some kind of hybrid that gets even better mileage. For us, fuel economy is more important than driving a big gas guzzling muscle car. About the only thing the average person can do to lessen the blow on the family budget is to drive a more fuel efficient car.

If we could have found an American car that was as well designed and built and got that kind of mileage, we would have bought it, but we couldn't. While there is a Toyota factory in the USA, ours was built in Canada. Ford, GM and Chrysler don't advertise quality and fuel efficiency, they advertise big cars with power out the kazoo and their commercials feature fast, reckless and wild driving with loud rock music. Does the word hemi sound familiar? Sometimes bigger is better but not always. How much good does all that gas guzzling power do when you'er stuck in rush hours traffic?

It's something to think about - we have to look out for ourselves, the big three aren't going to look out for us. Their ads seem to be aimed more at NASCAR drivers than people who drive on the public streets and highways.

It's not just OPEC and Big Oil, our egos are part of the problem, too.

Yes that is true. I have been having a struggle in my mind. I hope to be getting a new car either this year or next. Now that is if things pan out.

I really want to get the newer camaro when it comes out. However I have also been thinking that I may have to sacrifice what I want as far as looks and power goes and wind up getting a honda civic hybrid because of the gas mileage.

Another thing that sucks is if you live in a rural area you don't have a chance to have mass transport to help reduce things (bus or train).

Many do not work in a large factory where they can carpool together either.

[Doomsday101]

Here is the difference between OIL companies and OTHER companies.

If I don't want to use Microsoft, I can go and buy linux to use as an OS.

If I don't like Intel CPUs because I think they cost to much I can go Buy AMD or others.

If I don't like one grocery store because of high prices I can go to another grocery store chain with cheaper prices.

If I don't like BMV because they cost to much I can always find a cheaper car.

Now tell me, where in the heck can I go and buy gas for about 2-3 dollars a gallon as opposed to $3.75-4 a gallon? Where is that because I have went to three towns in my county and they are all about the same with $3.75 a gallon.

So give me a break about other companies getting tax breaks like the oil companies get because it is not working for me at all.

The oil companies are all about themselves and it does not help when you have the government in it's back pocket with secret back room deals with the VP before you go before congress to answer questions. It does not hurt when you have the President up there some time ago and a reporter asks about gas being a certain price now and he nonchalantly says...really I didn't realize it was that much.

It doesn't help when our dollar value is going down the tubes.

Look I don't blame everything on the oil industry but please don't feed me a bunch of BS that they have nothing to do with the problems and expect me to swallow it down with a smile.

And we get the same old BS of build more refineries and it would be cheaper.

Here we are screaming for alternate fuel sources and all people can do is defend the oil companies like they are crack addicted and just don't want to get off the rock.

You know back in the 70's with that fuel problem, Carter went on blabbing about needing to get away from oil and yet in 30+ years here we are still dependent on oil.

If we put even 1/4 of the money into alternate fuel research as we do in military occupations of Iraq we would probably have a solution by now.

Heck we did have the electric car some years back but the oil and auto industry scrapped it. The few people that owned it BEGGED for the auto manufacturer to let them buy the car (as they only leased it) but they refused. They took ALL of those cars, sent them to a scrap yard and destroyed them instead of letting people keep using the cars. Well wait, that was wrong they destroyed all but ONE car. They let one car go to an auto museum but only after they took out the engine and system.

Keep telling me the oil industry is innocent of everything. Keep giving the crack dealer his money.

Please, I am sorry but that is a bunch of BS.

Would not shock me of the strongest supporters of big oil are also stock holders.

I mean man alive we can send a man to the moon but we are led to believe we can not come up with an alternate fuel or vehicle that is not dependent on gasoline? SERIOUSLY?! And the one time they do build a car that does not require oil the scrap them all.

Lord forbid we make electricity out of Solar panels, Wind mills and hydro plants. I mean it is just a buttload of acres in wasteland in parts of the south west and someone would think that they could fill up acres upon acres of solar panels and wind technology to capture that abundant energy. Not only to get electric to cities but also electric stations for cars or added electric use for homes with setups to hook cars up to.

Problem with that is that it does not only take the power of Oil companies from the gasoline market but it also takes out Oil from the car. Plus it puts a crink in many of the auto part manufacturers as they won't be selling parts to a eternal combustion gas engine, exhaust parts and many other areas they make money from.

So sorry...saying the Oil companies are innocent of everything is a crock of bs that I am not willing to swallow.

Brian, Plain and simple the oil companies are not setting these prices I don't how else to tell you. If you want to know how prices are set then go find out for yourself. As for alternative fuels there are some that is used such as Geo-thermal, wind, Nuclear, solar and coal none of these are all that new but they are also not to the extent that it is going to replace oil and gas.

Yes man has gotten to the moon but man has not landed on Mars as of yet now have we? If there was true alternative to operate a car I would think others around the world would already being doing it since I doubt they are under control of the Oil Companies as you seem to think the US is.

There are ideals yet none of them have proven to be cost effective or overly reliable. That does not mean in the future it won't be but for now you are not going to just replace oil and gas to operate a vehicle and since that is the case and we do have some alternatives to Middle East oil such as domestic drilling.

The Government needs to loosen up this stiff regulation on drilling and of the building of new refineries that will make a difference in the price and it will lower our imports of middle eastern oil

[trickblue]

Yes...they sell them at every car dealership. I mean heck I could pick up the newspaper and look in the for sale section and find one of these cars easily.

<sarcasm off>

And once again we go from one limited resource that costs too much to another with your propane and natural gas.

Why do we need to try and keep going with things that are not renewable when we have Hydro, wind and solar power?

Furthermore the cost of natural gas and propane has been going up as well.

I don't disagree with you at all about finding alternate energy sources, especially renewable energy, but there are alternatives to gas powered cars...

Did you see "Future Car" on Discovery last year? That was fascinating. My personal favorite was the compressed air car. It had a range of about 120 miles I believe and he was working on a compressor that would continually fill the tanks so it was basically a perpetual car.

Dean Kamen, who invented the Segway, was an electric hybrid engine he invented called the Stirling. A car manufacturer in Norway is installing the engine in a new car. The car stores electricity and you can actually power your home with the engine. Here is an excerpt:

Over the past decade, Kamen, who made a fortune as inventor of the insulin pump and other medical devices, has spent some $40 million developing Stirling engines. They can use virtually any fuel source to heat a sealed container containing a gas - hydrogen or helium, for instance - that expands and contracts to drive a piston and produce electricity. (The scooter uses a small can of propane as the fuel source.) "We run two villages in Bangladesh on Stirlings that run on freakin' cow dung," says Kamen, who envisions Stirling engines powering the world's off-the-grid villages and using the waste heat produced by the engine to purify water.

I think we should bring back the Stanley Steamer... :D

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brian, Plain and simple the oil companies are not setting these prices I don't how else to tell you. If you want to know how prices are set then go find out for yourself. As for alternative fuels there are some that is used such as Geo-thermal, wind, Nuclear, solar and coal none of these are all that new but they are also not to the extent that it is going to replace oil and gas.

Yes man has gotten to the moon but man has not landed on Mars as of yet now have we? If there was true alternative to operate a car I would think others around the world would already being doing it since I doubt they are under control of the Oil Companies as you seem to think the US is.

There are ideals yet none of them have proven to be cost effective or overly reliable. That does not mean in the future it won't be but for now you are not going to just replace oil and gas to operate a vehicle and since that is the case and we do have some alternatives to Middle East oil such as domestic drilling.

The Government needs to loosen up this stiff regulation on drilling and of the building of new refineries that will make a difference in the price and it will lower our imports of middle eastern oil

Actually some places around the world have gotten off of the oil dependency we find ourselves in. I believe sugar cane was used by one country.

Oil companies do not set the price as a whole, but they do have their influence and I don't care if anyone tells me other wise.

But of course since the 70's we have talked about getting off oil but some people just can't seem to grasp it so they say...in the mean time let's do this or that with oil. I guarentee you if we did drill in anwar and had a buttload of new refineries the price at the pump would not drop that much.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't disagree with you at all about finding alternate energy sources, especially renewable energy, but there are alternatives to gas powered cars...

Did you see "Future Car" on Discovery last year? That was fascinating. My personal favorite was the compressed air car. It had a range of about 120 miles I believe and he was working on a compressor that would continually fill the tanks so it was basically a perpetual car.

Dean Kamen, who invented the Segway, was an electric hybrid engine he invented called the Stirling. A car manufacturer in Norway is installing the engine in a new car. The car stores electricity and you can actually power your home with the engine. Here is an excerpt:

Over the past decade, Kamen, who made a fortune as inventor of the insulin pump and other medical devices, has spent some $40 million developing Stirling engines. They can use virtually any fuel source to heat a sealed container containing a gas - hydrogen or helium, for instance - that expands and contracts to drive a piston and produce electricity. (The scooter uses a small can of propane as the fuel source.) "We run two villages in Bangladesh on Stirlings that run on freakin' cow dung," says Kamen, who envisions Stirling engines powering the world's off-the-grid villages and using the waste heat produced by the engine to purify water.

I think we should bring back the Stanley Steamer... :D

See I like the idea of the perpetual car and wonder why they could not make an electric car that continually recharges ITSELF by creating energy with the revolution of the wheels...I mean if a windmill can create energy from the revolutions why not an electric car. We currently use the fan belt in a car to keep the alternator running...anyone ever break a fan belt and shortly after your car dies.

[Doomsday101]

Actually some places around the world have gotten off of the oil dependency we find ourselves in. I believe sugar cane was used by one country.

Oil companies do not set the price as a whole, but they do have their influence and I don't care if anyone tells me other wise.

But of course since the 70's we have talked about getting off oil but some people just can't seem to grasp it so they say...in the mean time let's do this or that with oil. I guarentee you if we did drill in anwar and had a buttload of new refineries the price at the pump would not drop that much.

In Brazil yes they use sugar cane but they have no were near the demand for fuel as we have in the US. I'm all for Bio fuel which that is what sugar cane is just like corn but sugar cane is considered better than corn. Lastly I forget that you seem to think everyone is out to get us, you don't trust government or any company so I'm not going to tell you that it will make a difference because you just can't grasp that with the jaded attitude and total distrust.

[REDVOLUTION]

See I like the idea of the perpetual car and wonder why they could not make an electric car that continually recharges ITSELF by creating energy with the revolution of the wheels...I mean if a windmill can create energy from the revolutions why not an electric car. We currently use the fan belt in a car to keep the alternator running...anyone ever break a fan belt and shortly after your car dies.


Ah.... you must have read one of posts from a little while back. :)


Exactamundo!

We, in all likelyhood could build a car just like that. I mean come on... its 2008 and we are still driving vehicles with the OLD internal combustion engine.

I have little doubt that a car like that can be built. Actually I have no doubt really.

They should get that car on the road(pun intended) and just send us a invoice monthly. They just havent figured out the right formula... scratch that..... they are not finished gouging us with the oil.

[Bizwah]

My wife and I saw this coming years ago and when our chevy wore out, we bought a Toyota Corolla that gets around 35 MPG. The gas isn't any cheaper for us but we can drive twice as far on a gallon as our old Chevy.

I wish we could do this. With our family, it's tough to find a car that gets great mileage, is cheap to buy, and can fit all our kids.

Our next vehicle will probably be some kind of hybrid that gets even better mileage. For us, fuel economy is more important than driving a big gas guzzling muscle car. About the only thing the average person can do to lessen the blow on the family budget is to drive a more fuel efficient car.

Hybrids offer hope. But what's frustrating to me is the fact that the only people right now that can afford the hybrids (that my family can fit in) are the ones that can afford high gas prices to begin with. The price on them is outrageous. And even though it may pay for itself over time....you still have to be able to raise the money and make the payments.

I wish car companies could understand that.

If we could have found an American car that was as well designed and built and got that kind of mileage, we would have bought it, but we couldn't. While there is a Toyota factory in the USA, ours was built in Canada. Ford, GM and Chrysler don't advertise quality and fuel efficiency, they advertise big cars with power out the kazoo and their commercials feature fast, reckless and wild driving with loud rock music. Does the word hemi sound familiar? Sometimes bigger is better but not always. How much good does all that gas guzzling power do when you'er stuck in rush hours traffic?

AMEN.

It's frustrating to see Toyota, Honda, etc...to come up with new hybrids and alt fuel cars only to see Chevy, Dodge, and Ford brag about how their HUGE trucks have POWER. I get it....they make good trucks....but that's not practical for MOST Americans. Then the American car companies whine that their cars just aren't selling.

It's something to think about - we have to look out for ourselves, the big three aren't going to look out for us. Their ads seem to be aimed more at NASCAR drivers than people who drive on the public streets and highways.

It's not just OPEC and Big Oil, our egos are part of the problem, too.

There's just so much in your post that I agree with.

I wish car companies would come read it.

[Cajuncowboy]

Supply + lower costs = lower prices.

It will not ever go below 2.00 again but we can get it close to it by producing our own fuel via new refineries and drilling.

Also, take the taxes off the gas pumps and you will see how much the government has been taking out of your pocket. The politicos scream about BIG OIL but the real culprit is the government taking most of it.

[ConcordCowboy]

Actually some places around the world have gotten off of the oil dependency we find ourselves in. I believe sugar cane was used by one country.

Oil companies do not set the price as a whole, but they do have their influence and I don't care if anyone tells me other wise.

But of course since the 70's we have talked about getting off oil but some people just can't seem to grasp it so they say...in the mean time let's do this or that with oil. I guarentee you if we did drill in anwar and had a buttload of new refineries the price at the pump would not drop that much.

Totally agree with this.

IF they were allowed to drill in ANWAR and got some new refineries and would GUARANTEE that the price would drop dramatically then I would be all for it.

But I doubt that would really happen.

They don't want it to happen.

Why would they want you to pay $2.50 a gallon when they can get $3.50 from you?

People are being conditioned.

Who 6 months ago would have said man I'm getting a great deal by paying $2.50?

Nobody...but now people think that way.

[Cajuncowboy]

Totally agree with this.

IF they were allowed to drill in ANWAR and got some new refineries and would GUARANTEE that the price would drop dramatically then I would be all for it.

But I doubt that would really happen.

They don't want it to happen.

Why would they want you to pay $2.50 a gallon when they can get $3.50 from you?

People are being conditioned.

Who 6 months ago would have said man I'm getting a great deal by paying $2.50?

Nobody...but now people think that way.

You people don't understand. The oil companies are only making about 8 cents per gallon profit. It has little to do with them It is about us having to PAY through the nose to have it refined in other countries, then pay to have it shipped here.

Add to that the exorbitant taxes and THAT is where you have the costs, not to mention all the regulatory pressures placed on the oil companies from the environmentalists.

Drilling in ANWAR WOULD increase supply. Adding refineries WOULD decrease the cost.

[zrinkill]

You people don't understand. The oil companies are only making about 8 cents per gallon profit. It has little to do with them It is about us having to PAY through the nose to have it refined in other countries, then pay to have it shipped here.

Add to that the exorbitant taxes and THAT is where you have the costs, not to mention all the regulatory pressures placed on the oil companies from the environmentalists.

Drilling in ANWAR WOULD increase supply. Adding refineries WOULD decrease the cost.


As Fonzi would say ....... Exactamundo!

[Cajuncowboy]

As Fonzi would say ....... Exactamundo!

For the younger folks who have no idea what you are talking about...



http://innocentdrinks.typepad.com/dev/images/2007/10/22/fonzie.jpg

[zrinkill]

For the younger folks who have no idea what you are talking about...



http://innocentdrinks.typepad.com/dev/images/2007/10/22/fonzie.jpg

Those same folks are thinking ...."why is the coach from The Waterboy wearing a leather jacket?"

;)

[Cajuncowboy]

Those same folks are thinking ...."why is the coach from The Waterboy wearing a leather jacket?"

;)

I wished they would make shows like Happy Days and Welcome Back Kotter again.

I'm so sick of reality TV. I have enough reality in my life.

[burmafrd]

Proud to say i have NEVER watched a "reality" show (and just what is real about them?)

[burmafrd]

Brain, Concord and the rest of the propagandized libs just cannot figure it out:
If there was a lot more oil out there the price would drop. THe speculators would run off to something else.

[Cajuncowboy]

Proud to say i have NEVER watched a "reality" show (and just what is real about them?)

The names are real. The situations have been changed to protect the guilty.

[BrAinPaiNt]

In Brazil yes they use sugar cane but they have no were near the demand for fuel as we have in the US. I'm all for Bio fuel which that is what sugar cane is just like corn but sugar cane is considered better than corn. Lastly I forget that you seem to think everyone is out to get us, you don't trust government or any company so I'm not going to tell you that it will make a difference because you just can't grasp that with the jaded attitude and total distrust.

And it would seem you think the government and big oil are completely innocent in our current state of high gas prices.

[ConcordCowboy]

You know what I don't understand...if getting more Oil is the answer to lower gas prices so I don't have to put any blame on the poor old unfairly bashed Oil Company's...:rolleyes:

Why are we not getting huge amounts from Iraq and Kuwait?

We should be getting huge amounts of FREE oil from those countries.

After all the War in Iraq did liberated these people from bad old Saddam and bring democracy to the country...;) and was supposed to pay for itself with Oil and we saved Kuwait's arse from Iraq.

Why is this not happening?

[BrAinPaiNt]

I wish we could do this. With our family, it's tough to find a car that gets great mileage, is cheap to buy, and can fit all our kids.



Hybrids offer hope. But what's frustrating to me is the fact that the only people right now that can afford the hybrids (that my family can fit in) are the ones that can afford high gas prices to begin with. The price on them is outrageous. And even though it may pay for itself over time....you still have to be able to raise the money and make the payments.

I wish car companies could understand that.



AMEN.

It's frustrating to see Toyota, Honda, etc...to come up with new hybrids and alt fuel cars only to see Chevy, Dodge, and Ford brag about how their HUGE trucks have POWER. I get it....they make good trucks....but that's not practical for MOST Americans. Then the American car companies whine that their cars just aren't selling.



There's just so much in your post that I agree with.

I wish car companies would come read it.

Just curious of what price range you want a hybrid at?

I have noticed that they have came down a great deal since a few years ago.

I think the Hybrid Ford Escape (since you said something to fit your family) is around 26-27K where as the Ford Explorer is base model is about the same price with the Expedition being around 30+.

I remember a few years ago seeing the prices of some of the cars and thinking that the only people that could afford them were the ones that don't need to worry about gas prices, as you said, but they have came down a great deal.

Only problem I have is most of them are not very appealing visually wise and of course part of saving gas mileage in them means a car that is lucky to get 100-110 horse power which sucks depending on what the geographical layout is of where you live. However the escape has 133 hp so that is better than the cars at this state.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You people don't understand. The oil companies are only making about 8 cents per gallon profit. It has little to do with them It is about us having to PAY through the nose to have it refined in other countries, then pay to have it shipped here.

Add to that the exorbitant taxes and THAT is where you have the costs, not to mention all the regulatory pressures placed on the oil companies from the environmentalists.

Drilling in ANWAR WOULD increase supply. Adding refineries WOULD decrease the cost.

And you don't seem top get what we are saying.

The oils companies would not drop the price WE would pay at the pump that much even if they were drilling in anwar and with new refineries.

There would always be some excuse as to why we would not drop the prices a by over a dollar or more. They would never drop it down.

Do you honestly think that if they got anwar they would really drop the price to say the $1.50 to $2.50 range...I seriously don't.

[Doomsday101]

And it would seem you think the government and big oil are completely innocent in our current state of high gas prices.

I think the Government has control over regulations that are placed on Oil Companies that allow them or stop them from drilling and from building new refineries. As for the high prices OPEC determines the output and the markets "not oil company" determine the market price.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain, Concord and the rest of the propagandized libs just cannot figure it out:
If there was a lot more oil out there the price would drop. THe speculators would run off to something else.

And you don't seem to realize that those that have the money and power, are not just going to give it away so easily.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think the Government has control over regulations that are placed on Oil Companies that allow them or stop them from drilling and from building new refineries. As for the high prices OPEC determines the output and the markets "not oil company" determine the market price.

So you believe that Government has NOTHING at all to do with rising gas prices EXCEPT for them not allowing people to drill in anwar. Do you REALLY believe this?

[ConcordCowboy]

And you don't seem top get what we are saying.

The oils companies would not drop the price WE would pay at the pump that much even if they were drilling in anwar and with new refineries.

There would always be some excuse as to why we would not drop the prices a by over a dollar or more. They would never drop it down.

Do you honestly think that if they got anwar they would really drop the price to say the $1.50 to $2.50 range...I seriously don't.

No matter how much they try they will NEVER convince me that that would happen.

As you said there would ALWAYS be some reason.

[ConcordCowboy]

Brain, Concord and the rest of the propagandized libs just cannot figure it out:
If there was a lot more oil out there the price would drop. THe speculators would run off to something else.

:laugh2:

That coming from you one of THE most propagandized people for the Republican party is a joke.

[Doomsday101]

So you believe that Government has NOTHING at all to do with rising gas prices EXCEPT for them not allowing people to drill in anwar. Do you REALLY believe this?

The US is not setting the price this is a world market and the vast majority of the oil is controlled by OPEC do you really think the US is controlling world wide prices for a product that is not coming from us? Give me a break. As for the hollering of the so called Tax break here is a statement factcheck.org:

Oil Company Tax Breaks?
Both leading Democratic candidates have referred to tax breaks to oil companies:

Clinton, July 23, 2007: First of all, I have proposed a strategic energy fund that I would fund by taking away the tax break for the oil companies, which have gotten much greater under Bush and Cheney.


Obama, June 22, 2007: In the face of furious lobbying, Congress brushed aside incentives for the production of more renewable fuels in favor of more tax breaks for the oil and gas companies.


Both candidates are referring to H.R. 6, the 2005 energy bill that contained $14.3 billion in subsidies for energy companies. However, as we’ve reported numerous times, a vast majority of those subsidies (all but $2.8 billion) were for nuclear power, energy-efficient cars and buildings, and renewable fuels research. In addition, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, the tax changes in the 2005 energy bill produced a net tax increase for the oil and gas companies, as we’ve reported time and time and time again. They did get some breaks, but they had more taken away.


-Emi Kolawole

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_kind_of_tax_breaks_does_the.html

[vta]

[b]I think the Government has control over regulations that are placed on Oil Companies that allow them or stop them from drilling and from building new refineries.

Are you sure of that? I was informed earlier that isn't Russia and the Government has no such control over how a business conducts itself...

:eek:

I've been had!

[trickblue]

You know what I don't understand...if getting more Oil is the answer to lower gas prices so I don't have to put any blame on the poor old unfairly bashed Oil Company's...:rolleyes:

Why are we not getting huge amounts from Iraq and Kuwait?

We should be getting huge amounts of FREE oil from those countries.

After all the War in Iraq did liberated these people from bad old Saddam and bring democracy to the country...;) and was supposed to pay for itself with Oil and we saved Kuwait's arse from Iraq.

Why is this not happening?

I don't see anyone defending the oil companies, but rather laying down the facts that the msm is ignoring. While their earnings are huge, their net profit margins are actually less than Fortune 500 companies. Why is this so hard to understand?

We've also explained that crude prices are driven by the futures contracts being bought and sold at the mercantile exchanges and not set by oil companies.

I would like us to get oil from Iraq, but the fact of the matter is we are paying them for it in an attempt to help rebuild their economy...

I have no idea why we aren't getting oil from Kuwait. My guess is that since they are a member of OPEC, they don't want to break the cartel...

[Bizwah]

Just curious of what price range you want a hybrid at?

I have noticed that they have came down a great deal since a few years ago.

I think the Hybrid Ford Escape (since you said something to fit your family) is around 26-27K where as the Ford Explorer is base model is about the same price with the Expedition being around 30+.

I remember a few years ago seeing the prices of some of the cars and thinking that the only people that could afford them were the ones that don't need to worry about gas prices, as you said, but they have came down a great deal.

Only problem I have is most of them are not very appealing visually wise and of course part of saving gas mileage in them means a car that is lucky to get 100-110 horse power which sucks depending on what the geographical layout is of where you live. However the escape has 133 hp so that is better than the cars at this state.

We can afford a car that's around $15,000.

[BrAinPaiNt]

We can afford a car that's around $15,000.

I guess you will have to go and find one of those Propane cars trickblue mentioned earlier.;) :p:

[trickblue]

I guess you will have to go and find one of those Propane cars trickblue mentioned earlier.;) :p:

Actually you just have your current car converted over to propane...

Fuel economy is about the same as gasoline...

Learn more here:

https://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1972-05-01/Convert-Your-Car-To-Propane.aspx

As far as compressed air cars...

Check this out:

http://zeropollutionmotors.us/

[Bizwah]

I guess you will have to go and find one of those Propane cars trickblue mentioned earlier.;) :p:

We're hoping the price goes down in the next three or four years...on used ones anyway.

Like I said, it's frustrating to see that the people that will benefit from these types of cars in the beginning will be the people that can afford $4 gas to begin with.

[Dallas]

What is funny is everyone thinks the US can just turn off the spout and go jump in some imaginary pool of propane and natural gas w/o realizing that the nations need far outweighs the resources of either that are available. You still have to REFINE all of these suggestions and that is where the entire problem is. The worlds refineries are at nearly max production. Some only refine for a certain grade and that hurts supply even more.

BTW: You do know where propane comes from?

From the refining of oil and natural gas. So! We are right back where we started.

Throwing rocks at Big Oil because they control the price of my unleaded supreme. :rolleyes:

[ConcordCowboy]

I don't see anyone defending the oil companies, but rather laying down the facts that the msm is ignoring. While their earnings are huge, their net profit margins are actually less than Fortune 500 companies. Why is this so hard to understand?

We've also explained that crude prices are driven by the futures contracts being bought and sold at the mercantile exchanges and not set by oil companies.

I would like us to get oil from Iraq, but the fact of the matter is we are paying them for it in an attempt to help rebuild their economy...

I have no idea why we aren't getting oil from Kuwait. My guess is that since they are a member of OPEC, they don't want to break the cartel...

I could care less what their net profit margins are or who they compare against.

They sell a commodity that can not be avoided and affects all of us in not only in the price of gas that we put in our car but the food, clothes...right down to the flowers I'm going to buy my Mom for Mothers day.

And while I don't blame them for the whole price of Oil...I will never be convinced that they don't have something, somewhere to do with the price.

When you make record profit after record profit and people are suffering you're going to catch grief. As you should in my book.

There's plenty enough oil in Iraq to pay them for SOME to help for rebuilding but we should be taking plenty of FREE oil too.

And Kuwait should have to at least pay us back in oil for what it cost us liberate them...OPEC or the stupid cartel be damned.

[notherbob]

We can afford a car that's around $15,000.

Bizwah -

If you compare the full actual cost of buying and operating a $15,000 car that gets 20 MPG and a $26,000 car that gets 40 MPG, and if the price of gas continues to increase by 50 cents a gallon every six months until it hits $8/gal in five years, it will cost you less total money to buy the $26,000 car. This assumes you drive 2000 miles a month.

The break even point is about four years, but at the end of five years you would have paid $49,500 to buy and drive the $15,000 car that gets 20 MPG whereas the $26,000 car that gets 40 MPG would have cost you only $43,250 and the longer you keep it after that, the bigger the difference would be.

This does not take into consideration the difference in insurace costs or finance charges, but you can see that the greater the number of miles per gallon you get, the less it will cost you to operate it - that's considering that the price of gasoline continues to increase. Put it on Excel and check it out yourself.

Here is a copy of the spreadsheet I put together on it:
# gals Cost # gals Cost
@ 20 mpg @ 40 mpg
600 2100 300 1050
600 2400 300 1200
600 2700 300 1350
600 3000 300 1500
600 3300 300 1650
600 3600 300 1800
600 3900 300 1950
600 4200 300 2100
600 4500 300 2250
600 4800 300 2400
34500 17250


Car price 15000 26000

49500 43250

Hope this helps.

[BrAinPaiNt]

The US is not setting the price this is a world market and the vast majority of the oil is controlled by OPEC do you really think the US is controlling world wide prices for a product that is not coming from us? Give me a break. As for the hollering of the so called Tax break here is a statement factcheck.org:

Oil Company Tax Breaks?
Both leading Democratic candidates have referred to tax breaks to oil companies:

Clinton, July 23, 2007: First of all, I have proposed a strategic energy fund that I would fund by taking away the tax break for the oil companies, which have gotten much greater under Bush and Cheney.


Obama, June 22, 2007: In the face of furious lobbying, Congress brushed aside incentives for the production of more renewable fuels in favor of more tax breaks for the oil and gas companies.


Both candidates are referring to H.R. 6, the 2005 energy bill that contained $14.3 billion in subsidies for energy companies. However, as we’ve reported numerous times, a vast majority of those subsidies (all but $2.8 billion) were for nuclear power, energy-efficient cars and buildings, and renewable fuels research. In addition, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, the tax changes in the 2005 energy bill produced a net tax increase for the oil and gas companies, as we’ve reported time and time and time again. They did get some breaks, but they had more taken away.


-Emi Kolawole

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_kind_of_tax_breaks_does_the.html

So are you saying when we invaded Iraq...it in no way shape or form affected the price of gas?

Are you saying are long and continued presence in Iraq has in no way, shape or form affected the cost of gas?

Are you saying the ramp up towards Iran and parking a ship or two off their bow has in no way, shape or form affected the price of gas.

Are you saying that?

[Doomsday101]

So are you saying when we invaded Iraq...it in no way shape or form affected the price of gas?

Are you saying are long and continued presence in Iraq has in no way, shape or form affected the cost of gas?

Are you saying the ramp up towards Iran and parking a ship or two off their bow has in no way, shape or form affected the price of gas.

Are you saying that?

No you said that I did not say anything about the war in Iraq. Can a war in the region cause prices to go up yes. Can a storm that wipes out refineries cause the price to go up? yes. There are events that can cause disruption in production that can cause the prices to go up but in the end it is the output from the OPEC and the market that sets the prices none of that is controlled by the Oil Company and no I don't think the US went to war so that we could have 3.60 a gallon gas.

[BrAinPaiNt]

No you said that I did not say anything about the war in Iraq. Can a war in the region cause prices to go up yes. Can a storm that wipes out refineries cause the price to go up? yes. There are events that can cause disruption in production that can cause the prices to go up but in the end it is the output from the OPEC and the market that sets the prices none of that is controlled by the Oil Company and no I don't think the US went to war so that we could have 3.60 a gallon gas.

My exact words...and I even capitalized certain words in my original post that I am quoting now...Now I will put those words in bold...

So you believe that Government has NOTHING at all to do with rising gas prices EXCEPT for them not allowing people to drill in anwar. Do you REALLY believe this?

I only asked a simple question and made it clear as I could...and which you answered YES now.

Thank You.

[Doomsday101]

My exact words...and I even capitalized certain words in my original post that I am quoting now...Now I will put those words in bold...



I only asked a simple question and made it clear as I could...and which you answered YES now.

Thank You.

Your welcome however that is a stretch based on the conversation we have been having in terms of setting oil prices by US government and or the oil company. Our conversation as a whole was a lot more than "So you believe that Government has NOTHING at all to do with rising gas prices EXCEPT for them not allowing people to drill in anwar. Do you REALLY believe this? " and you know it. Stooping to political double talk? I thought you hated that. :laugh2:

[BrAinPaiNt]

Your welcome however that is a stretch based on the conversation we have been having in terms of setting oil prices by US government and or the oil company and our conversation as a whole was a lot more than "So you believe that Government has NOTHING at all to do with rising gas prices EXCEPT for them not allowing people to drill in anwar. Do you REALLY believe this? " and you know it. Stooping to political double talk? I thought you hated that. :laugh2:

It was not political double talk.

I am just trying to pin down how far you are willing to go in what I see as denying that the government or big oil has in the the result of high gas prices.

That is EXACTLY why I worded that last one the way I did and made sure to emphasize the words I did.

At least you will admit that the government can affect the price of oil in some ways.

Now we can disagree that government or big oil, in some form or another, helps set the price of oil. I just could not see a way that anyone could deny that government does not influence the price in one way, shape or form. Whether it be through political measures with foreign governments or with taxation of gas at the pump (whether it be state or federal). Nor do I honestly believe that if we knocked out the middle man (OPEC) and decided that we are only going to use oil that we domestically drill for and domestically refine...I just don't believe the price would drop much at all.

And if my hunch is true that it would not drop by much at all...then in that case it would seem that oil does have power over or in cahoots (nice hillbilly word) with the government in making sure that Oil and the business of oil stays front and center no matter how many politicians say otherwise to pander to the voting public.

So we can disagree on those items. I just wanted to see how far you would be willing to go in saying that the government has in no way, shape or form ever influenced or affected the price of gas.

[Doomsday101]

It was not political double talk.

I am just trying to pin down how far you are willing to go in what I see as denying that the government or big oil has in the the result of high gas prices.

That is EXACTLY why I worded that last one the way I did and made sure to emphasize the words I did.

At least you will admit that the government can affect the price of oil in some ways.

Now we can disagree that government or big oil, in some form or another, helps set the price of oil. I just could not see a way that anyone could deny that government does not influence the price in one way, shape or form. Whether it be through political measures with foreign governments or with taxation of gas at the pump (whether it be state or federal). Nor do I honestly believe that if we knocked out the middle man (OPEC) and decided that we are only going to use oil that we domestically drill for and domestically refine...I just don't believe the price would drop much at all.

And if my hunch is true that it would not drop by much at all...then in that case it would seem that oil does have power over or in cahoots (nice hillbilly word) with the government in making sure that Oil and the business of oil stays front and center no matter how many politicians say otherwise to pander to the voting public.

So we can disagree on those items. I just wanted to see how far you would be willing to go in saying that the government has in no way, shape or form ever influenced or affected the price of gas.

Thing is Iraq effected Oil prices when they invaded Kuwait and were on the boarder of Saudi Arabia, Iran increases the cost as there are fears in the market that they could be close to developing nuclear weapons there are many things that can and have happened that do not involved the US or Oil Companies that can cause these prices to rise.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Thing is Iraq effected Oil prices when they invaded Kuwait and were on the boarder of Saudi Arabia, Iran increases the cost as there are fears in the market that they could be close to developing nuclear weapons there are many things that can and have happened that do not involved the US or Oil Companies that can cause these prices to rise.

Never said there were not other things that can cause the price to jump.

Actually in a thread some time ago I believed I also credited the increased growth, in more modern areas, of China as part of the reason for the increased problem.

However I am just not one to have someone try and tell me that the oil companies and government are completely innocent in it all. Because they are not. I have given you examples of other countries who have moved away from oil. I have given you examples of other cars that did not require oil but where taken away and DESTROYED. I have given you examples of other areas of technology that have grown by leaps and bounds but somehow we are lead to believe that oil and government can not come up with a vehicle that will not be dependent on oil (foreign or domestic).

Yet I am still being told that the government and big oil has nothing to do with it and they are just innocent victims of opec. This hillbilly might not be the smartest person, but he is not the dumbest person either.

[Vintage]

Another thing to consider is that China's demand for oil has skyrocketed. That's also causing prices to rise.

And its only going to get worse as they continue to develop....their need for oil will increase.

Which is fine. They have every right to do so.

[ScipioCowboy]

Another thing to consider is that China's demand for oil has skyrocketed. That's also causing prices to rise.

And its only going to get worse as they continue to develop....their need for oil will increase.

Which is fine. They have every right to do so.

The time is definitely now to develop alternative fuel sources, preferably better ones.

I wonder how that matter/anti-matter reactor is coming along?:D

[Cajuncowboy]

And you don't seem top get what we are saying.

The oils companies would not drop the price WE would pay at the pump that much even if they were drilling in anwar and with new refineries.

There would always be some excuse as to why we would not drop the prices a by over a dollar or more. They would never drop it down.

Do you honestly think that if they got anwar they would really drop the price to say the $1.50 to $2.50 range...I seriously don't.

You honestly don't understand supply and demand.
Check it out.

They are making about 8 cents per gallon of gas.

Now if the government would stop taxing us to death at the pump, we would save (depending on your state) an average of 16.5 % on the fuel price. Then if you take away the silly regulations that FORCE these oil companies to make so many different mixes of fuel based on the states you would save even more money.

So just by doing these things you would reduce the costs of fuel.

Even if the Big Bad Oil companies (BBOC) decided to double their profits to 16 cents per gallon, you would end up with a lower fuel price per gallon.

Now the BBOC wouldn't raise the profits because now that the costs are lower, they would sell more gas. The demand would go up and thereby the overall profits.

If course liberals would never admit to this simple math equation because it blows holes in their BBOC routine.

I'm sorry but I know too much about this business to allow folks on here with a political bent to fool me on it.

My family has been in this business for a looooong time and it exactly the way I just described it. The BBOC is not out to gouge anyone. If they were, you would have seen it after Katrina and Rita hit. Where there was gouging it was the individual stations not the BBOC.

[ZeroClub]

Big Ag, Big Oil, and the military industrial complex have hit the lottery with W.

The rest of us, not so much.

[burmafrd]

The economic ignorance of Liberals always amazes me. They do not even understand the BASICS of the concept of supply and demand. When EITHER Of them is affected, the price will rise or fall. THe more controls and government interference in the process the worse it gets. Before all the controls and interference of the last 10 years the price of oil was never anywhere above $50 a barrel. Now its over $120. Because of government and environmental interference, speculators realized that money can be made there big time and they have done it. There are now so many controls and hoops to jump through to drill and explore and pump oil that many do not want to be bothered. And because of all those hoops the whole process is much more expensive. Add to that all the areas that it is KNOWN that there is a lot of oil (ANWAR, off the coasts of California and Florida, Etc) that we cannot drill and no one should be surprised at the price rocketing up. The Speculators KNOW that there are not going to be gushes of new oil coming since the governments and environmentalists and all the rest have made sure that it is almost impossible to do; and even when it is done it takes far longer and costs far more then it used to.
China and India are still growing at very fast rates; the demand will continue to incresase even if the US drops its needs by 10%, which would be a HUGE decrease.

[burmafrd]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?postversion=2008042912

[Jordan55]

Here's a shocker! Dems pushing to increase taxes
How about cutting back on Government waste!

U.S. highway spending urged
Local congressmen ask more federal cash for bridges, roads
Saturday, April 26, 2008
By Timothy McNulty, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pam Panchak/Post-Gazette
Congressman James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Transportation Committee, speaks during a news conference yesterday in Pittsburgh.Two Pittsburgh-area congressmen hosted the chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee yesterday, as they lobbied for increases in long-term federal highway and bridge spending.

Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., said he hopes to increase the federal government's five-year spending authorization from its previous $300 billion to $450 billion, starting in 2009. Pennsylvania's slice of that pie would increase from its current $8.3 billion to $12 billion over five years, he said.

Rep. Mike Doyle, D-Swissvale, and transportation committee member Jason Altmire, D-McCandless, joined Mr. Oberstar at a news conference to highlight the state's crumbling road and bridge infrastructure. Mr. Doyle said 39 percent of the state's bridges are structurally deficient and 46 percent of its major roads are in poor condition.

"We literally have disasters in the making all across the Commonwealth," he said.

In the Pittsburgh region, 23 percent of bridge decks are structurally deficient, said PennDOT District 11 Executive Dan Cessna, and 200 miles of its roadways are rated poor.

While the agency has plans to maintain them, "the backlog of challenges of poor roads and bridges far exceeds available funding," he said.

Paying for increased transportation funding, Mr. Oberstar said, could require raising the 18.4-cents-per-gallon federal gas tax, instituting public-private construction partnerships and using federally supported bond measures.

Mr. Oberstar was no fan of cutting gas taxes -- as Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., proposed on the presidential campaign trail this month -- saying they were essential for underwriting highway projects.

If Congress suspended the federal gas tax for the summer, as Mr. McCain suggested, the oil companies would pocket the money and keep prices high, he said.

"It's a splendid idea, if you want to bankrupt America," Mr. Oberstar said.

[Jordan55]

No new refineries, no domestic drilling, a high percentage of all of our oil imported.
Can any one see a problem?
You can't have your cake and eat it too.


http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon043008.gif



The president of Shell Oil Co. said Monday his industry isn't to blame for the high price of gasoline and said America must drill for more domestic oil even as it develops biofuels and other alternative sources.

In an interview with The Bee and a speech to an alternative-fuels conference in Sacramento, John Hofmeister hailed the potential of new forms of ethanol and other futuristic fuels but also delivered an old-school message: Conventional fuel from crude oil will continue to dominate for the foreseeable future.

"We see no alternative" in the short run, he said in his keynote speech to the Low Carbon Fuels conference at the Convention Center.

And unless companies like Shell are allowed to produce more oil from domestic sources, the industry will have to import more and prices will stay high, he said. Although critics have been blasting the oil companies for record profits, Hofmeister said oil companies can't be faulted for prices that hit a statewide average of $3.80 a gallon, another record, for self-serve regular.

Rather, the high cost of crude, which closed Monday at $111.76 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, is the major culprit, he said in an interview. Crude is responsible for some 70 percent of the price of gasoline, he said.

And California's higher-than-average fuel taxes are a key reason why the state's average is considerably higher than the national average, he added. The U.S. average is $3.37.

Some environmentalists and other critics say more domestic oil drilling will harm the environment and postpone the movement to alternative fuels. "We need to kick our petroleum habit," said Bonnie Holmes-Gen, senior policy director for the American Lung Association of California. "The solution is to promote advanced clean, alternative fuels."

But Hofmeister said America must develop alternatives and drill for more oil at the same time. In fact, if domestic drilling doesn't pick up, millions of Americans will suffer the burden of ever-higher prices.

"If we're not allowed to drill our own natural resources, then by public policy from the U.S. government we're saying to consumers, 'You're just going to have to pay more because we refuse to develop our own natural resources,' " he said. "If we don't change the underlying conditions over the short term to produce more hydrocarbons, I don't see any solution."

Hofmeister, who is retiring this summer as head of the U.S. arm of Royal Dutch Shell, said his company is pouring money into developing new fuels, including ethanol based on wood chips and straw instead of corn. But at the same time, Shell and other companies face considerable hurdles – technological and logistical – in bringing those fuels to market.

"Ideas are around the corner, innovation is around the corner," but real-world practical solutions are still many years off, Hofmeister said.

In many cases, "the technologies are immature, the manufacturing processes are not yet developed," he said.

Low-carbon fuels refers to an executive order signed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to reduce the carbon content of motor fuel. But Hofmeister said the logistics of commercializing low-carbon technology can be daunting.

One small example: Hofmeister said Shell spent three years trying to convince a New York City suburb to allow one of its retail stations to sell a new hydrogen-based fuel. The suburb wouldn't budge, and Shell had to sell the product from behind a wire fence at an industrial-style wholesale storage site, he said.

That kind of unappealing setting makes it far more difficult to market the product to consumers, he said.

Nonetheless, he and other industry executives said they're committed to pursuing low-carbon alternatives to conventional fuels. But executives said government regulations aimed at combating global warming could harm the economy unnecessarily.

"We're not challenging the goals," said Cathy Reheis-Boyd, chief operating officer of the Western States Petroleum Association, a Sacramento-based trade and lobbying group. "The … challenge is to meet the goals and not tank the economy."

The state's most significant global-warming law, AB 32, requires a 29 percent cut in greenhouse gas emissions by 2020.

[BrAinPaiNt]

No drilling in anwar because all it does is continue the slow down of actually looking for alternative, non oil depeandent, measures to make a car that does not need gasoline.

As long as there is Oil to be used the government and big oil is not going to push forward with other means to look into to get off of oil. Oh they will talk a big game and act like they are but it would be against big oils best interest so why would they.

If you owned a business would you really try hard to find ways for consumers to buy a product that you do not control and in turn take your business away from you?

[notherbob]

You honestly don't understand supply and demand.
Check it out.

They are making about 8 cents per gallon of gas.

Now if the government would stop taxing us to death at the pump, we would save (depending on your state) an average of 16.5 % on the fuel price. Then if you take away the silly regulations that FORCE these oil companies to make so many different mixes of fuel based on the states you would save even more money.
So just by doing these things you would reduce the costs of fuel.

Even if the Big Bad Oil companies (BBOC) decided to double their profits to 16 cents per gallon, you would end up with a lower fuel price per gallon.

Now the BBOC wouldn't raise the profits because now that the costs are lower, they would sell more gas. The demand would go up and thereby the overall profits.

If course liberals would never admit to this simple math equation because it blows holes in their BBOC routine.

I'm sorry but I know too much about this business to allow folks on here with a political bent to fool me on it.

My family has been in this business for a looooong time and it exactly the way I just described it. The BBOC is not out to gouge anyone. If they were, you would have seen it after Katrina and Rita hit. Where there was gouging it was the individual stations not the BBOC.

I'm not sure I understand all this, perhaps you could explain it to me.

You make it sound like the government, which sounds to me like the federal government, is really gouging us at the pump but the federal gasoline tax is only 18.4 cents per gallon and the average state gasoline tax is 28.6 cents per gallon for a total of 47 cents per gallon. Federal tax on diesel is 6 cents higher than gasoline but I don't know if state taxes on diesel are higher. The fuel taxes are what fund highway construction and repair, without the fuel tax, wouldn't taxes have to be raised elsewhere to pay for road construction and repair? I'm not sure I would call a federal tax of 18.4 cents per gallon taxing us to death.

As to fuel companies not gouging after the hurricanes, as I recall, there is a federal law with substantial penalties against that so it wasn't done out of the goodness off their hearts but there is no federal law against raising prices of heating oil during the winter so the heating oil people routinely raise prices during the winter, certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts, but that is truly supply and demand. It's a jungle out there.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just mentioning specifically what the taxes are rather than dealing in generalities and I'm sure someone who has been in the petroleum business for so long wouldn't try to deceive anyone.

:)

[ZeroClub]

Anwar is that unopened box of Twinkies in the morbidly obese person's pantry.

It is so difficult not to open that box, but deep down you know that its not in your best interest, that you should change your lifestyle, and get serious about ending the self-destructive cycle.

Still, in the given moment, it just feels easier to remain in denial and binge.

[Jordan55]

Anwar is that unopened box of Twinkies in the morbidly obese person's pantry.

It is so difficult not to open that box, but deep down you know that its not in your best interest, that you should change your lifestyle, and get serious about ending the self-destructive cycle.

Still, in the given moment, it just feels easier to remain in denial and binge.


I believe there are a few unopened boxes of twinkies that haven't been opened, I also agree with you about a change, but we have been addicted for quite a period of time. I believe we will have be weaned off of it, but we still need to keep the oil prices stable and use the additional profits from the lower costs to assist in developing the alternatives.
Were only about twenty five years behind the eight ball in confronting this situation.
Nothing like the US govenment looking out for us.

[Vintage]

You honestly don't understand supply and demand.
Check it out.

They are making about 8 cents per gallon of gas.

Now if the government would stop taxing us to death at the pump, we would save (depending on your state) an average of 16.5 % on the fuel price. Then if you take away the silly regulations that FORCE these oil companies to make so many different mixes of fuel based on the states you would save even more money.

So just by doing these things you would reduce the costs of fuel.

Even if the Big Bad Oil companies (BBOC) decided to double their profits to 16 cents per gallon, you would end up with a lower fuel price per gallon.

Now the BBOC wouldn't raise the profits because now that the costs are lower, they would sell more gas. The demand would go up and thereby the overall profits.

If course liberals would never admit to this simple math equation because it blows holes in their BBOC routine.

I'm sorry but I know too much about this business to allow folks on here with a political bent to fool me on it.

My family has been in this business for a looooong time and it exactly the way I just described it. The BBOC is not out to gouge anyone. If they were, you would have seen it after Katrina and Rita hit. Where there was gouging it was the individual stations not the BBOC.

Wait. Are you telling me government interference with markets is inefficient?


;)




edit: and god damnit, another thread where I agree with burm.

[Doomsday101]

Anwar is that unopened box of Twinkies in the morbidly obese person's pantry.

It is so difficult not to open that box, but deep down you know that its not in your best interest, that you should change your lifestyle, and get serious about ending the self-destructive cycle.

Still, in the given moment, it just feels easier to remain in denial and binge.

Why is it not in the best interest? An area that is so remote and where Oil can be drilled with very limited effects in the area.

[burmafrd]

THese oh so noble environmentalists and liberals like to ignore the hardship the poor go through when oil prices are so high. NOT to mention the millions suffering in the third world where oil prices hurt so much MORE then they do here. But thats ok for the libs=they don't really care for the poor=they are just convienent political tools.
So dont drill in ANWAR and else where/ all those poor suffering are actually contributing to the libs agenda which makes it ok.

[BrAinPaiNt]

THese oh so noble environmentalists and liberals like to ignore the hardship the poor go through when oil prices are so high. NOT to mention the millions suffering in the third world where oil prices hurt so much MORE then they do here. But thats ok for the libs=they don't really care for the poor=they are just convienent political tools.
So dont drill in ANWAR and else where/ all those poor suffering are actually contributing to the libs agenda which makes it ok.

Do you believe half the dribble you spew or is it just an act...just curious?

[Doomsday101]

Do you believe half the dribble you spew or is it just an act...just curious?

Part of it is true. We can't drill off the Florida coast, we can't drill in ANWAR, We can't drill off the coast of Califronia but we don't want to be dependate on Middle Eastern Oil?

[Cajuncowboy]

I'm not sure I understand all this, perhaps you could explain it to me.

You make it sound like the government, which sounds to me like the federal government, is really gouging us at the pump but the federal gasoline tax is only 18.4 cents per gallon and the average state gasoline tax is 28.6 cents per gallon for a total of 47 cents per gallon. Federal tax on diesel is 6 cents higher than gasoline but I don't know if state taxes on diesel are higher. The fuel taxes are what fund highway construction and repair, without the fuel tax, wouldn't taxes have to be raised elsewhere to pay for road construction and repair? I'm not sure I would call a federal tax of 18.4 cents per gallon taxing us to death.

As to fuel companies not gouging after the hurricanes, as I recall, there is a federal law with substantial penalties against that so it wasn't done out of the goodness off their hearts but there is no federal law against raising prices of heating oil during the winter so the heating oil people routinely raise prices during the winter, certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts, but that is truly supply and demand. It's a jungle out there.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just mentioning specifically what the taxes are rather than dealing in generalities and I'm sure someone who has been in the petroleum business for so long wouldn't try to deceive anyone.

:)

Personally I am not in the business, my family has been fro a long time though.

When you look at the actual profit the oil companies make from a gallon of gas vs, what the government makes (Local, state and federal) there is no comparison. Add to that the enormous regulatory restrictions they place on them plus the mandates of the different mixtures, then you have exorbitant costs which is filtered down to the consumer.

And example, Exxon Copr will pay to the government this past quarter over 9 Billion dollars. That's Billion WITH A "B"!

The point is that any business person knows that in order to make large profits, it's not in the price that you sell your product for, but the amount that you sell. If your product is more affordable you will sell more and thus stay in business longer and be more profitable.

The lunatic left fringe who keeps screaming about the Oil companies obscene profits are the same ones who now what to increase the taxes even more on gas.

Those are the people you need to put the blame on. The ones that cause the prices to be higher than they should be.

[ThaBigP]

It's good in theory and makes perfect sense.

However I would bet money that even if they did do so they would still manage to keep the prices about the same as they are now.

Once prices get to a certain point they rarely ever go down to another. They just gradually get more and more and I just don't see US oil/gas companies wanting to lower the prices much when they could keep them about the same and make even more of a killing.

Oil companies do not have OUR interests at heart, only their own as they are a business who is used to getting it's way.

Dude? Supply and demand is not simply "theory" or a "it looks good on paper, but..." kinda deal. Increase supply = reduced price. Increase demand = increased price. Thousands of years of human economic activity bear this out. Nobel prizes in economics are handed out by those who pontificate on the subject. But in the end, its very, very simple. When there is plenty of "something" people want, those selling can't demand as high a price due to competitive pressures. When that "something" people want is in scarce supply, the price goes up - similar to a bidding war. This happens all across the supply/production chain. Oil is bid for on the open market, so scarcity runs the price up there. Refining capacity is limited here in the US, so the price goes up there too. Then, due to the limited refining capacity (not to mention federal-mandated boutique blends of gasoline), a limited supply of refined product is produced, again running the price up.

[SuspectCorner]

I don't see anyone defending the oil companies, but rather laying down the facts that the msm is ignoring. While their earnings are huge, their net profit margins are actually less than Fortune 500 companies. Why is this so hard to understand?

We've also explained that crude prices are driven by the futures contracts being bought and sold at the mercantile exchanges and not set by oil companies.

I would like us to get oil from Iraq, but the fact of the matter is we are paying them for it in an attempt to help rebuild their economy...

I have no idea why we aren't getting oil from Kuwait. My guess is that since they are a member of OPEC, they don't want to break the cartel...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/la-fi-exxon2-2008may02,0,746176.story

From the Los Angeles Times:

Exxon's 17% Jump In Profit Falls Short

By Ronald D. White
May 2, 2008


"Exxon's Hubble said the company was increasing its quarterly cash dividend to 40 cents a share, up 14%, marking its 26th straight year of increased dividends.

"In 2007, Exxon spent $31.8 billion buying back stock and $20.9 billion on capital expenditures.

"That's part of the problem, said Tyler Slocum, director of Public Citizen's Energy Program, who said that if Exxon Mobil won't spend money where it is most needed, such as on capital investment to reduce the price burdens on consumers and on renewable energy development, then it was time for government to step in and take action."...

The following was also posted in an earlier thread where i was "pwned"... :) oooooooookay........


http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2008/02/01/exxons-profits-measuring-a-record-windfall.html

From US News & World Report:

"Exxon's Profits: Measuring a Record Windfall"

By Marianne Lavelle
Posted February 1, 2008

"Exxon Mobil's staggering $40.6 billion earnings for 2007 drive the truth home: There's no business on the planet that gushes forth more profit than selling oil—nothing even close.

"Exxon nation. If Exxon Mobil were a country, its 2007 profit would exceed the gross domestic product of nearly two thirds of the 183 nations in the World Bank's economic rankings. It would be right in there behind the likes of Angola and Qatar—two oil-producing nations, incidentally, where Exxon has major operations.

"Ahead of the pack. Exxon Mobil's profits are 80 percent higher than those of General Electric, which used to be the largest U.S. company by market capitalization before Exxon left it in the dust in 2005. The new economy? Microsoft earns about a third as much money. And next to Exxon, the world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart, looks like a quaint boutique, with annual profits of about $11 billion.

"On the margin. The oil industry urges people to look beyond its profits to its profit margin: about 7.6 percent of revenues late last year. That's not much higher than the 5.8 percent profit margin for all U.S. manufacturing, and if you exclude the financially troubled auto industry from that analysis, the oil industry actually appears less profitable than most manufacturers, which were earning 9.2 cents on every dollar of sales.

"But unrivaled returns on equity. However, profit margins across industries vary greatly based not on how well each business is doing but how capital- or labor-intensive it is. Oil is among the most capital-intensive. But look at the oil industry's profits compared with shareholder equity it has available for investment. The U.S. Energy Information Administration's most recent analysis of the oil industry's performance, released just last month, showed oil industry return on equity of 27 percent—about 10 points higher than that of other manufacturers. And it has been higher throughout this recent era of high world oil prices, just as it was back during the oil shock that hit in 1980."


************************************************** *************************


Given the 27% return on investor equity ("about 10 points higher than other manufacturers") - is it any wonder their outlay to buy back stock exceeds their capital expenditures (exploration, production, refining) by 3 to 2? It sure smells like a further attempt to manipulate pricing to me.

Let's not rationalize the titanic profits being reaped by Big Oil. They are resource-depleters unwilling to share any burden of increased costs - rather passing every nickle on to the consumer (and then some). Any tax breaks and subsidies these huge corporations see oughta require some heavy-duty investment in alternative and renewable energies.

[Heisenberg]

My biggest fear is that by opening drilling in all these restricted areas, we'll get lax on our need to get off of oil in the first place. I do like the idea of lower gas prices, but I'm not sure they'll ever drop again. The main thing is to control their rise in the future as best we can.

I dunno. :D There's upsides and downsides to everything. The solution with the biggest upside is not using oil at all, but that's a LONG LONG way away and the longer we feel we can skate by without change, I fear the longer it'll be.

[burmafrd]

My point is that the Libs and Environmentals do NOT CARE for the POOR being pounded now. That is clear. For all their claims to care, etc its CLEAR they really do not.
Its really very simple: package permission to drill in those areas and to build more refineries along with dropping all those stupid blends= PLUS more money into research and development of alternative energy and fuels and goals for their use. BUT the Libs and Environmentals WON'T do it.

[burmafrd]

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P119982.asp

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P120009.asp?Printer

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TroubleAheadForBigOil.aspx

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P149921.asp?GT1=8180

A little reality for all of suspects BS.

[SuspectCorner]

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P119982.asp

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P120009.asp?Printer

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TroubleAheadForBigOil.aspx

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P149921.asp?GT1=8180

A little reality for all of suspects BS.

Don't hold you're breath as you await a possible drop in oil prices... sometime between now and 2010.

We're not going to wean oil companies off of charging $3-4/gallon for fuel. They've tasted blood now... their main concern appears to be buying up as much of their own stock as possible. Apparently Big Oil doesn't like to "share".

[SuspectCorner]

My point is that the Libs and Environmentals do NOT CARE for the POOR being pounded now. That is clear. For all their claims to care, etc its CLEAR they really do not.
Its really very simple: package permission to drill in those areas and to build more refineries along with dropping all those stupid blends= PLUS more money into research and development of alternative energy and fuels and goals for their use. BUT the Libs and Environmentals WON'T do it.

Even if those protected areas were opened up - do you trust the oil industry to raise production levels enough to justify it at the pump? What have they done to merit your trust so far?

These are the same bandits who, despite reaping profits hand-over-fist, STILL haven't paid the judgment rendered over the Valdez spill - from eighteen years ago!

[burmafrd]

Whining and crying about something that happened 18 years ago.
The problem is here and now. BUT you do not care= you just want to let the poor starve.