Replacement Obama Pastor Just As Controversial As Wright

[heavyg]

Wednesday, May 7, 2008 8:54 PM

By: Newsmax Staff Article Font Size







Barack Obama has finally distanced himself from Rev. Jeremiah Wright after a 20-year relationship, but the pastor who is replacing Wright at Chicago’s Trinity United Church of is likely to be just as controversial.


New Trinity pastor Otis Moss has called Biblical patriarch Abraham a “pimp” and made other statements many would consider offensive.


After Obama called Wright’s comments “divisive and destructive,” a questioner noted that Rev. Moss has defended Wright and asked if Obama would continue attending the church.


“Well, the new pastor, the young pastor, Reverend Otis Moss, is a wonderful young pastor,” Obama responded. “And as I said, I still very much value the Trinity community.”


Moss, the 37-year-old “hip-hop pastor,” as he’s called by congregants, will become head of Trinity in June, after serving as an assistant pastor there for two years.


But a videotape of a sermon he delivered at Wright’s church shows this “wonderful young pastor” referring to “ghetto prophets” and “thug theology,” calling the late rapper Tupac Shakur a “prophet,” and reciting at length lyrics to Shakur’s song “Thugz Mansion.”

[Doomsday101]

Louis Farrakhan didn't get the job? I guess they were looking for something different. :laugh2:

[theebs]

pastor.

again. Why does a grown man need a pastor and why is he bieng judged by him?

So ridiculous. People vote based on the goofiest things.

[WoodysGirl]

I'd be real interested to hear those statements in their original context, so I could get the whole picture. I realize there are some who don't find it necessary, but I've always hated getting one side of a story.

[quincyyyyy]

Billy Graham was anti-semitic does that mean Reagan was a horrible person because Billy boy was his religious adviser.

[trickblue]

Billy Graham was anti-semitic does that mean Reagan was a horrible person because Billy boy was his religious adviser.Billy Graham, Anti-Semitic?
If he returns his ADL award, so will I.
William F. Buckley, Jr.

March 19, 2002 3:25 p.m.

The one thing critics of Billy Graham have failed to come up with is a single act, a single syllable in the public career of Mr. Graham that could be interpreted as anti-Semitic. There can't be another living American whose day-by-day life has been more minutely examined. When did he say anything anti-Semitic? When did he egg on critics of the Jews? When did he by inflection, let alone declaration, seek to undermine the Jewish state?

When the words quoted in the Haldeman diaries were released in 1994, nobody paid any attention to them, and Graham said about them only that they could not have been his own words. Well, they were his own words, because the tape recording released a fortnight ago established this, so Mr. Graham was reduced simply to apologizing for having said them, and reiterating that manifestly they did not reveal sentiments he ever acted upon.

A few coordinates are worth looking at:

1) The words were spoken in the private company of the president of the United States. It is a human tendency to humor chiefs of state, and one way of doing this is to sort of go along with their moods and line of thought. Students laugh at headmasters' jokes. If President Nixon was going on about the Jews (as we know he sometimes did), you would expect the courtier impulses of his intimates to piggy-back along. Leonard Garment and Henry Kissinger, if ever they are detected as having laughed at an anti-Semitic presidential joke, should be thought of as socially self-abnegating, rather than as anti-Semitic, always leaving room for the possibility that it was a good joke.

2) Mr. Graham's repudiation of what he said was terribly overdone. "I have never talked publicly or privately about the Jewish people, including in conversations with President Nixon, except in the most positive terms." The trouble with saying something like that is that it is simply unbelievable. It sounds like Clarence Thomas saying he had never discussed Roe v. Wade or had any thoughts about it. You'd have to be a castrate never to have talked "publicly or privately" about the Jewish people. How can you, without talking about them, intone some such sentiment as, "Those . . . lovely Jews voted 85 percent Democrat again!" Or, for that matter, "Those stupid Jews won all the Nobel Prizes again, as usual!"

3) Several people who know Graham intimately enough to have written his biography (William Martin of Rice University), or occupied a chair named after him (Lewis Drummond of Samford University), have given their opinion that the Nixon remarks to Graham were certainly centered about the subject of pornography. "They're the ones putting out the pornographic stuff," Mr. Graham said, "after agreeing with Mr. Nixon," — in the account of David Firestone of the New York Times — "that left-wing Jews dominate the news media." Now on this matter, a bit of research might be worth the trouble, research designed to explore whether stereotypes here were invidious. The conversation took place on February 1, 1972. Why did Nixon say that pornography was substantially a Jewish enterprise? What data, if any, was he relying on? Why did Graham agree with him? Was there in fact a top-heavy investment in pornography by Jewish entrepreneurs?

Since the Supreme Court, with the acquiescence of the majority of the American people, apparently deems pornography nothing more than an expression of free speech, what else can be said of those who engage in it than that they are swinging with the market? To have said in 1972 that pornographic entrepreneurs were heavily Jewish is different from saying such a thing as, "Only Jews would engage in pornography," which would be on the order of saying, "Only priests engage in pederasty." That would indeed would be anti-Semitic, but that sentiment was not recorded.

4) The reaction of Abraham Foxman, the head of the Anti- Defamation League, was reliably melodramatic and self-serving. "What's frightening is that he (Graham) has been so close to so many presidents, and who knows what else has been saying privately." Like what? That the Protocols of Zion should be adopted in the curriculum of public schools? That Israel should be cut up and given to Syria?

Mr. Foxman urged Billy Graham to return the award he won in 1971 from the National Conference of Christians and Jews. If they did that to Billy Graham, after his lifetime of service to tolerance and charity and love, then you'd get something the impact of which would be anti-Semitic. I am proud to have an award from the Anti-Defamation League. If Graham returns his, I'll volunteer the return of mine.

[quincyyyyy]

I could care less what Buckley thinks or says. The guy is a femine hygiene product.

But there is proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_graham) he was an anti-semite. The proof was his own words on a tape recording.

"In 2002, however, newly declassified "Richard Nixon tapes" confirmed remarks made by Graham to President Nixon three decades earlier. Captured on the tapes, Graham agreed with Nixon that Jews control the American media, calling it a "stranglehold" during a 1972 conversation with Nixon.[24] "This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain,"[25] said Graham, agreeing with Nixon's comments about Jews and their influence in American life. Later, Graham mentions that he has friends in the media who are Jewish, including A.M. Rosenthal, saying they "swarm around me and are friendly to me." But, he tells Nixon, "They don't know how I really feel about what they're doing to this country."[24] These remarks were considered highly controversial by some Jewish leaders such as Abraham Foxman, who characterized them as anti-Semitic.[14]"

[quincyyyyy]

What about Jerry Falwell who said America deserved to be attacked on 9/11. The only reason you guys hate on Obama's pastors is because he is black.

[BrAinPaiNt]

McCain's Preacher has said some things as well...against catholics.

[trickblue]

I could care less what Buckley thinks or says. The guy is a femine hygiene product.

I could care less about the liberal drivel you link too either...

I suppose you are smarter than Buckley as well...

What about Jerry Falwell who said America deserved to be attacked on 9/11. The only reason you guys hate on Obama's pastors is because he is black.

In the history of this forum, I can't say I remember seeing anyone (Christian or non-Christian) post anything positive about Falwell. I know I haven't...

btw... you are more than welcome to post your thoughts here, but if you continue to accuse members of being racist, you will be gone in short order...

[BrAinPaiNt]

I could care less about the liberal drivel you link too either...

I suppose you are smarter than Buckley as well...



In the history of this forum, I can't say I remember seeing anyone (Christian or non-Christian) post anything positive about Falwell. I know I haven't...

Trick...the user may be a pain in the arse but Graham was on tape saying that and did apologize for it.

Kind of hard to act like it never happened or he was just joking around with those words.

[AtlCB]

Billy Graham was anti-semitic does that mean Reagan was a horrible person because Billy boy was his religious adviser.

Reagan never attended Graham's church while president. As far as I could tell they were only friends. Graham was also friends with the Kennedys. I guess we should declare JFK a bad president. :rolleyes:

[quincyyyyy]

Reagan never attended Graham's church while president. As far as I could tell they were only friends. Graham was also friends with the Kennedys. I guess we should declare JFK a bad president. :rolleyes:


No you shouldn't thats my point. Politicians don't necessarily ascribe to everything their pastor or any other supporter says. And its ridiculous you guys think Obama does and all these other Republicans don't.

[trickblue]

Trick...the user may be a pain in the arse but Graham was on tape saying that and did apologize for it.

Kind of hard to act like it never happened or he was just joking around with those words.

I never defended it... I just posted an opposing point of view...

I'm not particularly fond of Billy Graham either...

Justifying what one person said because another person said something else is the reason this country is in trouble...

[Maikeru-sama]

Reagan never attended Graham's church while president. As far as I could tell they were only friends. Graham was also friends with the Kennedys. I guess we should declare JFK a bad president. :rolleyes:

And Barack Obama never attended Rev. Wright's church while he was president.

[theogt]

But a videotape of a sermon he delivered at Wright’s church shows this “wonderful young pastor” referring to “ghetto prophets” and “thug theology,” calling the late rapper Tupac Shakur a “prophet,” and reciting at length lyrics to Shakur’s song “Thugz Mansion.”Weird.

[AtlCB]

No you shouldn't thats my point. Politicians don't necessarily ascribe to everything their pastor or any other supporter says. And its ridiculous you guys think Obama does and all these other Republicans don't.
I really not that concerned about his pastor. I'm more concerned with his spending proposals when we should be looking to limit government spending.

[AtlCB]

And Barack Obama never attended Rev. Wright's church while he was president.
I was responding to his attack on Reagan.

[Doomsday101]

McCain's Preacher has said some things as well...against catholics.

Rod Parsley is not McCain's preacher he is the one who made the negative comments about Catholics. Rod Parsley has endorsed McCain but John McCain has not been attending this man’s church. There is no doubt there are those in the religious right who have made many comments that are flat out wrong or hateful but for the most part many of the Religious Right have been opposed to McCain and are only now coming over to his side because the option of McCain is better than that of Obama or Clinton.

[quincyyyyy]

Rod Parsley is not McCain's preacher he is the one who made the negative comments about Catholics. Rod Parsley has endorsed McCain but John McCain has not been attending this man’s church. There is no doubt there are those in the religious right who have made many comments that are flat out wrong or hateful but for the most part many of the Religious Right have been opposed to McCain and are only now coming over to his side because the option of McCain is better than that of Obama or Clinton.

I'm sure a lot of the Republicans' pastors has said some pretty bad things about gays.

[iceberg]

I'd be real interested to hear those statements in their original context, so I could get the whole picture. I realize there are some who don't find it necessary, but I've always hated getting one side of a story.

well, i think "experience" helps *most* people stop making rash judgements because of being burned by doing so in the past. not all is as it seems from quick clips.

in fact, not much is.

but it does take experience usually before people stop doing that. then when they learn we get to see a whole new generation of "unexperienced" jump to quick conclusions. i think the IGS mentality we're under doesn't help stem that tide.

[heavyg]

I'm sure a lot of the Republicans' pastors has said some pretty bad things about gays.

What would you consider being bad things? Is saying the bible states it is an abomination bad? You are going to find it very hard to find a pastor of a conservative church that will tell you it is OK to be gay in God's eyes

[Doomsday101]

I'm sure a lot of the Republicans' pastors has said some pretty bad things about gays.

I'm sure they have. However it was many of the far right who has been opposed to McCain now you want to make it seem as if he has been part of that well he hasn't. Obama on the other hand has spent 20 years with this man and listening to what he has said and is only now able to denounce him? Give me a break, it is not that Wright has made these comments it is the fact that Obama had been very reluctant to condemn him and only did so when it looked as if it could really hurt him

[quincyyyyy]

What would you consider being bad things? Is saying the bible states it is an abomination bad? You are going to find it very hard to find a pastor of a conservative church that will tell you it is OK to be gay in God's eyes


Um... Of course. That is actually a pretty horrible and bigoted thing to say about someone. I don't know how any reasonable person can believe that another human being is an abomination because of his/her sexual preference. Hence you proved my point.

[heavyg]

Um... Of course. That is actually a pretty horrible and bigoted thing to say about someone. I don't know how any reasonable person can believe that another human being is an abomination because of his/her sexual preference. Hence you proved my point.

I proved nothing except for what the bible says.

[quincyyyyy]

I'm sure they have. However it was many of the far right who has been opposed to McCain now you want to make it seem as if he has been part of that well he hasn't. Obama on the other hand has spent 20 years with this man and listening to what he has said and is only now able to denounce him? Give me a break, it is not that Wright has made these comments it is the fact that Obama had been very reluctant to condemn him and only did so when it looked as if it could really hurt him

Obama wasn't present when he made those comments and nobody has provided evidence he was. The media has been playing over and over again snippets from three speeches. Wright has been giving perfectly normal sermons the rest of the time

[iceberg]

Obama wasn't present when he made those comments and nobody has provided evidence he was. The media has been playing over and over again snippets from three speeches. Wright has been giving perfectly normal sermons the rest of the time

pastor makes comment in church
obama goes to this church for 20 years
yet no proof obama was there to hear said comments?

you're making crap up cause you're bored and stirring up things. that's it. no one can be this dense accidently.

have a day.

[quincyyyyy]

I proved nothing except for what the bible says.

The bible also says fathers have the right to sell their daughters into slavery (http://bible.cc/exodus/21-7.htm). Just because the bible says something it doesn't make it right.

[quincyyyyy]

pastor makes comment in church
obama goes to this church for 20 years
yet no proof obama was there to hear said comments?

you're making crap up cause you're bored and stirring up things. that's it. no one can be this dense accidently.

have a day.


Nope. There is no proof he was there during those 3 sermons and that is a fact.

[heavyg]

The bible also says fathers have the right to sell their daughters into slavery (http://bible.cc/exodus/21-7.htm). Just because the bible says something it doesn't make it right.

Thats a new one to me. I will have to go read up on that one and get back to you. However, that seems more like a custom.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Rod Parsley is not McCain's preacher he is the one who made the negative comments about Catholics. Rod Parsley has endorsed McCain but John McCain has not been attending this man’s church. There is no doubt there are those in the religious right who have made many comments that are flat out wrong or hateful but for the most part many of the Religious Right have been opposed to McCain and are only now coming over to his side because the option of McCain is better than that of Obama or Clinton.

Actually I think we are both wrong...I was talking about John Hagee and I am not sure if he is McCain's preacher but instead someone McCain sought for an endorsement.

But the point is not that it is ok for one to do it and not another.

The point it sure does seem like we spend a great deal of time in the media, and in this forum, going after Obama's Pastors while we spend next to no time at all talking about other preachers/pastors.

[quincyyyyy]

Thats a new one to me. I will have to go read up on that one and get back to you. However, that seems more like a custom.

This is why religion shouldn't be mixed with politics.

[heavyg]

This is why religion shouldn't be mixed with politics.

You can't keep from it IMO......but what does a pastor talking about homosexuality have to do with politics

[iceberg]

This is why religion shouldn't be mixed with politics.

so why don't you tell that to the "official" government of afganistan?

[Maikeru-sama]

It is always interesting to see just how far we can take the concept of "you are who you associate with".

When George W. Bush and many conservatives speak at blantantly and overt racist institutions such as Bob Jones University, are they adopting the beliefs of said institution or is it for monetary, political and/or pure superficial purproses?

I personally believe Barack Obama was attending this church for "superficial reasons", which oddly enough, is something Pat Buchanon posited on Fox when "Wright-Gate" first broke.

[quincyyyyy]

You can't keep from it IMO......but what does a pastor talking about homosexuality have to do with politics

Back to my original point, I don't think someone is liable for what one of his/her associates has said in the past unless if he/she concurs.

[quincyyyyy]

so why don't you tell that to the "official" government of afganistan?

The Taleban is a POS and I am glad a government that is at least somewhat more secular has replaced it.

[AbeBeta]

The point it sure does seem like we spend a great deal of time in the media, and in this forum, going after Obama's Pastors while we spend next to no time at all talking about other preachers/pastors.

Actually, we had a thread on crazy shizzle that guys like Parsley and Falwell said.

Shockingly, we had several posters agreeing with their more extreme comments.

[heavyg]

Back to my original point, I don't think someone is liable for what one of his/her associates has said in the past unless if he/she concurs.

I agree with you to a point. But when someone is as radical as Wright there needs to be seperation

[quincyyyyy]

I agree with you to a point. But when someone is as radical as Wright there needs to be seperation

Why is he anymore fanatical than Billy Graham who made all of those anti-semitic statements? Or Jerry Falwell who said America deserved to be attacked on 9/11?

The media has just been playing the 3 same sound bites over and over again. It is not really representative of his body of work.

[heavyg]

Why is he anymore fanatical than Billy Graham who made all of those anti-semitic statements? Or Jerry Falwell who said America deserved to be attacked on 9/11?

The media has just been playing the 3 same sound bites over and over again. It is not really representative of his body of work.

I never said he wasn't. I don't like Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell or any of these TV "preachers". Most of them are way off the mark and are basically just trying to make a buck IMO

[Doomsday101]

Obama wasn't present when he made those comments and nobody has provided evidence he was. The media has been playing over and over again snippets from three speeches. Wright has been giving perfectly normal sermons the rest of the time

20 years he has been going to that church so don't hand me he did not know what Wrights views were. Either Obama is deaf and dumb or he is full of it to get votes but no way does any person sit and listen to someone for 20 years and not know what is going on.

[Doomsday101]

Actually I think we are both wrong...I was talking about John Hagee and I am not sure if he is McCain's preacher but instead someone McCain sought for an endorsement.

But the point is not that it is ok for one to do it and not another.

The point it sure does seem like we spend a great deal of time in the media, and in this forum, going after Obama's Pastors while we spend next to no time at all talking about other preachers/pastors.

Personally I don't care what obama rev said what I have a problem with is the fact that Obama only objected to it when it seemed to be hurting him while running for office. The reason no one makes an issue of Farrakan endorsing Obama is because Obama rejected Farrakan right off the bat.