Did John McCain betray the U.S.A.?

[quincyyyyy]

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified_landing.htm

[Brandon]

Republicans are worthless and are liars, so this doesn't surprize me.

*Waits for a Repub to come in here running and screaming about how global warming doesn't exist, how we need to send more troops over and how Bush couldn't have prevent 9/11*

[BrAinPaiNt]

:rolleyes:

[trickblue]

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified_landing.htm

Republicans are worthless and are liars, so this doesn't surprize me.

*Waits for a Repub to come in here running and screaming about how global warming doesn't exist, how we need to send more troops over and how Bush couldn't have prevent 9/11*

You two should get a room...

[Dallas]

You two should get a room...

I think they are actually roomates already Trick.

[vta]

:rolleyes:

You two should get a room...

:lmao2:

[Hostile]

Republicans are worthless and are liars, so this doesn't surprize me.

*Waits for a Repub to come in here running and screaming about how global warming doesn't exist, how we need to send more troops over and how Bush couldn't have prevent 9/11*Tom Landry and Roger Staubach thank you for the label.

[kristie]

I think they are actually roomates already Trick.

:lmao:

[hairic]

Is this about his service while captive? How he was treated well for giving info/being an admiral's son as opposed to the story usually told of him being tortured.

I hate that design and won't bother trying to read it. Just wondering if it's something new.

[Heisenberg]

Wow. I love me some swiftboating.

Lets lay off the man's military record. It was shady when it happened to Kerry and it's just as shady now.

[Cajuncowboy]

Republicans are worthless and are liars, so this doesn't surprize me.

*Waits for a Repub to come in here running and screaming about how global warming doesn't exist, how we need to send more troops over and how Bush couldn't have prevent 9/11*

You need a lobotomy in the worst way.

[burmafrd]

Pile of crap.
Do not agree with a lot of McCains positions but his service UNQUESTIONABLE
by anyone with a brain or without an agenda.
Which leaves kartr and dingy out of it.

[silverbear]

Wow. I love me some swiftboating.

Lets lay off the man's military record. It was shady when it happened to Kerry and it's just as shady now.

I didn't read the article, because I was afraid it was that kind of crap...

I couldn't agree more, lay off the man's military record... I think that John McCain is a good man, who means well, I just don't agree with his stance on the war, so I can't vote for him...

That does not mean I'll accept an attempt to demonize him...

[silverbear]

Pile of crap.
Do not agree with a lot of McCains positions but his service UNQUESTIONABLE
by anyone with a brain or without an agenda.
Which leaves kartr and dingy out of it.

"Liberals are ALWAYS complaining."

There you go again, burm... seems like you're ALWAYS "complaining"...

Indeed, it has occurred to me that you NEVER defend the positions of the right, all you do is attack the critics of the right... IOW, all you do is COMPLAIN...

[CanadianCowboysFan]

McCain is just creepy. His stepford wife is even creepier.

[ZeroClub]

The way McCain dumped brain-injured wife #1 in favor of eventual wife #2 should give some pause to the Christian Right segment of the republican party.

[Jordan55]

The way McCain dumped brain-injured wife #1 in favor of eventual wife #2 should give some pause to the Christian Right segment of the republican party.

Yeah where have you been, the far right love him, they are lining up to support him.:rolleyes:

[Jordan55]

I didn't read the article, because I was afraid it was that kind of crap...

I couldn't agree more, lay off the man's military record... I think that John McCain is a good man, who means well, I just don't agree with his stance on the war, so I can't vote for him...

Your talking about this stance

ROCKY RIVER, Ohio (CNN) -- Republican presidential candidate John McCain defended his belief that U.S. troops will need to stay in Iraq for decades Monday but said the unpopular war will soon end "for all intents and purposes."


"My friends, the war will be over soon ... for all intents and purposes," Sen. John McCain said Monday.

McCain said his potential Democratic rivals have distorted his January comment that U.S. forces may need to remain in Iraq for up to 100 years. Speaking at a campaign event in suburban Cleveland, Ohio, he said that referred to a long-term American presence similar to those in South Korea or Kuwait.

"My friends, the war will be over soon ... for all intents and purposes, although the insurgency will go on for years and years and years," the Arizona senator said. "But it will be handled by the Iraqis, not by us."Nearly two-thirds of Americans now oppose the nearly five-year-old Iraq war, according to a CNN poll taken in mid-January. McCain has been an outspoken supporter of President Bush's decision to pour nearly 30,000 additional troops into the conflict, a move he and other advocates credit with a sharp reduction in sectarian warfare and U.S. casualties.

"I think that clearly my fortunes have a lot to do with what's happening in Iraq, and I'm proud of that," he told CNN.

McCain's campaign was written off for dead last summer. It rebounded after a staff shakeup about the same time that American fortunes in Iraq appeared to turn. But at a town hall meeting before January's New Hampshire primary, McCain told a questioner that the United States could have forces in Iraq for "maybe 100" years.

"We've been in Japan for 60 years," he said. "We've been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."

Both Democratic contenders, Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, now regularly pound McCain over the remark.

"He has said he wants to keep our troops in Iraq -- it would be fine with him -- for 50 years to 100 years," Clinton said Monday. "I will start bringing them home within 60 days." Watch McCain's remarks on War in Iraq »

McCain said his potential Democratic rivals are less forthcoming about their own predictions last year that the effort to secure Baghdad and its surrounding provinces "would absolutely fail."

"But all those will be subjects of debate as we move forward."

So what part of his stance on Iraq, are you opposed to? and would you not agree with the numerous reports concurring that the situation over in Iraq, is improving, yes I know it's still fragile, but the Iraqics are least taking on more of the responsibility. Do you still feel it's a lost war?
Would the gains of success not out weigh and admittance of defeat?
Bear, it seems as if I could go on for ever with these questions so one more

Are truly of the belief, that we will be looked upon favorably by other nations of the world, by bailing out, when were so close to achieving a semblance of a democracy for the people of Iraq?

[big dog cowboy]

You two should get a room...
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[DallasFanSince86]

You two should get a room...

I think they are actually roomates already Trick.

:lmao2::laugh2:

[zrinkill]

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified_landing.htm

Wow ..... Quincyyyyy attacking military men again .... what a surprise.

[jman]

Your talking about this stance

ROCKY RIVER, Ohio (CNN) -- Republican presidential candidate John McCain defended his belief that U.S. troops will need to stay in Iraq for decades Monday but said the unpopular war will soon end "for all intents and purposes."


"My friends, the war will be over soon ... for all intents and purposes," Sen. John McCain said Monday.

McCain said his potential Democratic rivals have distorted his January comment that U.S. forces may need to remain in Iraq for up to 100 years. Speaking at a campaign event in suburban Cleveland, Ohio, he said that referred to a long-term American presence similar to those in South Korea or Kuwait.

"My friends, the war will be over soon ... for all intents and purposes, although the insurgency will go on for years and years and years," the Arizona senator said. "But it will be handled by the Iraqis, not by us."Nearly two-thirds of Americans now oppose the nearly five-year-old Iraq war, according to a CNN poll taken in mid-January. McCain has been an outspoken supporter of President Bush's decision to pour nearly 30,000 additional troops into the conflict, a move he and other advocates credit with a sharp reduction in sectarian warfare and U.S. casualties.

"I think that clearly my fortunes have a lot to do with what's happening in Iraq, and I'm proud of that," he told CNN.

McCain's campaign was written off for dead last summer. It rebounded after a staff shakeup about the same time that American fortunes in Iraq appeared to turn. But at a town hall meeting before January's New Hampshire primary, McCain told a questioner that the United States could have forces in Iraq for "maybe 100" years.

"We've been in Japan for 60 years," he said. "We've been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."

Both Democratic contenders, Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, now regularly pound McCain over the remark.

"He has said he wants to keep our troops in Iraq -- it would be fine with him -- for 50 years to 100 years," Clinton said Monday. "I will start bringing them home within 60 days." Watch McCain's remarks on War in Iraq »

McCain said his potential Democratic rivals are less forthcoming about their own predictions last year that the effort to secure Baghdad and its surrounding provinces "would absolutely fail."

"But all those will be subjects of debate as we move forward."

So what part of his stance on Iraq, are you opposed to? and would you not agree with the numerous reports concurring that the situation over in Iraq, is improving, yes I know it's still fragile, but the Iraqics are least taking on more of the responsibility. Do you still feel it's a lost war?
Would the gains of success not out weigh and admittance of defeat?
Bear, it seems as if I could go on for ever with these questions so one more

Are truly of the belief, that we will be looked upon favorably by other nations of the world, by bailing out, when were so close to achieving a semblance of a democracy for the people of Iraq?

Jordan55,

What you haven't realized is that silverbear doesn't give a rats *ss about the Iraqi...He will tell you not one American life if worth giving to save a million Iraqi lives.

Whether the war is worth winning or not is a pointless question to ask. We shouldn’t be there in the first place. Period, end of story. Any person supporting the war effort (he loves and supports the men and women the US has sent without a doubt, no fault there.) aka “neo-con or Bush supporter” or even a person that thinks this is worth doing, is Satan.

Well actually Bush is Satan and I guess we “war supporters” are the new “Hells Angels”.

But hey, that’s what I respect about silverbear…he sticks to his guns. Ironically, he seems to want to support a political party that flip-flops and changes their mind depending on which direction the wind blows at a drop of the hat. Go figure.

[silverbear]

Your talking about this stance

ROCKY RIVER, Ohio (CNN) -- Republican presidential candidate John McCain defended his belief that U.S. troops will need to stay in Iraq for decades Monday but said the unpopular war will soon end "for all intents and purposes."

You ask what part of his policies vis a vis Iraq I find offensive, let's start with the section in bold font... this is totally unacceptable...


"My friends, the war will be over soon ... for all intents and purposes," Sen. John McCain said Monday.

I don't believe that crapola, either... the Iraqi army is nowhere CLOSE to being ready to take on the responsibility of maintaining stability in that country...

"But it will be handled by the Iraqis, not by us.

Yeah, and I believe in the Easter bunny...

McCain has been an outspoken supporter of President Bush's decision to pour nearly 30,000 additional troops into the conflict, a move he and other advocates credit with a sharp reduction in sectarian warfare and U.S. casualties.

There has been no sharp reduction in sectarian warfare and US casualties, there has only been brief LULLS in the violence... remember, right before the Tet Offensive, we were reading about how violence was on the wane in Vietnam, and how that was a sign that we were finally winning over there... lulls happen in the type of guerilla war we're fighting in Iraq...

"I think that clearly my fortunes have a lot to do with what's happening in Iraq, and I'm proud of that," he told CNN.

That right there is the key-- he's proud of what we've done, and are doing, in Iraq, and I'm ASHAMED of it... I'm OUTRAGED by it... so how can I POSSIBLY vote for a guy who's proud of something that provokes nothing but shame and rage in me??


"We've been in Japan for 60 years," he said. "We've been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."

Terrific... except as long as we're in Iraq, Americans will continue being "injured or harmed or wounded or killed"... ask the Israelis how long they've been facing violence from their enemies in the Middle East... jihadists are not noted for just picking up their ball and going home...

So what part of his stance on Iraq, are you opposed to? and would you not agree with the numerous reports concurring that the situation over in Iraq, is improving,

I absolutely and emphatically would not... what REALLY happened when we started the "surge"?? Violence in Baghdad dropped off dramatically... then violence started in Basra... then when they got things in hand there, hot spots flared up in Sadr City... now, they're starting to get things settled down there, but you can bet that violence will flare up elsewhere...

I predicted that would happen when I first read about the "surge"...

That's how a guerilla war works, Jordan-- you do NOT engage the enemy where he's gathered in force, because the enemy has more men and more firepower... so when the troops gather in Baghdad, the insurgents go somewhere else... and when we respond to the violence wherever they've gone to in force, they'll melt away, and reappear somewhere else, perhaps even in the area you just finished pacifying (because your troops will no longer be concentrated there)...

No, pal, what I see happening in Iraq is EXACTLY what happened in Viet Nam, where we fought another guerilla war... hit and move, hit and move, don't stay in any one place long enough for the enemy to pin you down and wipe you out... so it may look to you as the enemy is fleeing before you like you're "winning", but you're not...

There will never be peace and stability in Iraq until two things are accomplished:

1) The three major tribal factions work out some way of peacefully coexisting, of sharing the power, and...

2) We get out of there...

Do you still feel it's a lost war?

Absolutely... again, ask the Israelis if they've ever actually WON against the Palestinians?? Sixty years later, and those folks are still at each others' throats...

You have to understand that to the Arabs, this really is a religious war... they believe we're there to destroy Islam, as well as their homes... so for them, this is not just a war to defend their homes, this is jihad... and they will gladly die to the last man, rather than surrender to the infidel invaders (us)...

Are truly of the belief, that we will be looked upon favorably by other nations of the world, by bailing out, when were so close to achieving a semblance of a democracy for the people of Iraq?

Do you think we're looked on favorably by the world for having invaded Iraq in the first place??

As for the claim that we're close to achieving a semblance of democracy in Iraq, I don't buy that, not for a second... Iraq is currently in the midst of a bloody civil war, tribe against tribe, and it seems to me highly unlikely that the current government can survive, absent being propped up by us at the point of a gun...

Excuse me, but I don't think the United States has the moral right to IMPOSE democracy on ANY other nation... Iraqis have the same right to self-detemination that we do, don't they?? Perhaps those folks, being Arabs, might actually PREFER an Islamic fundamentalist state... but Islamic fundamentalism is an enemy of ours, and we can't have that, no sir...

This war is not about Iraq's best interests, and it never has been... it's about OUR best interests, or more accurately, the neocon view of what our best interests are... we're screwing Iraq for our own interests, and that's just WRONG...

So to answer your final question, IMO the only way we can get the world to view us favorably again is to stand up and admit that what we did is wrong... getting out of Iraq couldn't possibly hurt our standing in the world, after 8 years of Dubya our standing in the world is already at an all-time low... it's so low, that we cost the prime ministers of Australia and England their jobs... two of our staunchest allies saw their careers ruined, because of their backing of us... that should tell you something...

[silverbear]

Jordan55,

What you haven't realized is that silverbear doesn't give a rats *ss about the Iraqi...He will tell you not one American life if worth giving to save a million Iraqi lives.

I sure will... remember, not one Iraqi ever ASKED us to come "liberate" them... not one of them had risen up in opposition to Saddam's repression...

Nope, we just decided all on our own to "liberate" them... and it's hard to believe that they're not grateful to us for the tens of thousands of them killed, the hundreds of thousands of them rendered homeless, as a result of our "help"...

Whether the war is worth winning or not is a pointless question to ask.

Especially when there's no victory to be had... those folks have no CHOICE to fight, their homes are the battlegrounds...

How quick would you be to quit if a superior force were to invade YOUR home??

We shouldn’t be there in the first place. Period, end of story.

Well, I can't accuse you of distorting my position... that's exactly right, we shouldn't be there in the first place... we made up a bunch of crap as a pretext to invade them...

Any person supporting the war effort (he loves and supports the men and women the US has sent without a doubt, no fault there.) aka “neo-con or Bush supporter” or even a person that thinks this is worth doing, is Satan.

Naw, just wrong...

Well actually Bush is Satan

That's a bit of hyperbole... I do believe he's a profoundly evil man, or at least, the pawn of profoundly evil men...

Ironically, he seems to want to support a political party that flip-flops and changes their mind depending on which direction the wind blows at a drop of the hat. Go figure.

Actually, I don't support ANY political party... right now, I'm annoyed at the Republicans for what they've let the neocons do to them, but I have in the past supported Republicans I consider to be "good" Republicans, and some of them have been pretty conservative (John Warner)... I also voted for the incumbent Congressman from this district, Republican Bob Goodlatte... now, I didn't have much choice, he ran unopposed the last time, but I could have simply chosen not to cast a vote in that particular race... but I have no problems with Goodlatte, he has been good for the Shenandoah Valley...

I freely admit that I purely loathe Dubya, and his little cabal of neocons, but I do not define the entire Republican party by Dubya... I'm actually encouraged that they went and nominated McCain, who is pretty much despised by the cabal that I loathe... maybe the party has finally started to free itself from the insidious influence of the neocons...

I hope so, anyway... but don't mistake hating Dubya for hating the GOP...

BTW, thanks for stating my positions fairly and accurately, for the most part... it gets tiring, having my views distorted by some in here who hate those views... you didn't do that, and I appreciate it, especially knowing you're no fan of my politics...

[quincyyyyy]

Wow ..... Quincyyyyy attacking military men again .... what a surprise.

But Repukes attacking John Kerry's service is alright I guess.

[CowboyJeff]

McCain is just creepy. His stepford wife is even creepier.

I always thought the Canadian socialist parliament was creepy.

[CowboyJeff]

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified_landing.htm

Quincyyyyy, I think the site with the real punch is here: http://www.muslimsforobama.com/

[quincyyyyy]

Quincyyyyy, I think the site with the real punch is here: http://www.muslimsforobama.com/


I don't understand. Why is it bad that Muslims are for Obama?

Oh I get it. You are being an ignorant racist conservative. Don't you have a KKK meeting you have to get to or something?

[SuspectCorner]

But Repukes attacking John Kerry's service is alright I guess.

Especially dubious when it was done to further the re-election of Mr. AWOL - and his cabinet of warhawks who, with few exceptions (Mr. Powell), received college and other deferments during the Vietnam War. Funny how these guys who know nothing about the realities of war - were the ones leading the charge.

Name the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. family members serving in combat zones? Next time we have neo-cons in office trumpeting foreign invasions put their families on the frontlines - and I'll be a little less resistant.

[quincyyyyy]

Especially dubious when it was done to further the re-election of Mr. AWOL - and his cabinet of warhawks who, with few exceptions (Mr. Powell), all received college deferments during the Vietnam War. Funny how these guys who know nothing about the realities of war - were the ones leading the charge.

Name the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. family members serving in combat zones? Next time we have neo-cons in office trumpeting foreign invasions put their families on the frontlines - and I'll be a little less resistant.

I believe the correct term is chickenhawks.

[SuspectCorner]

I believe the correct term is chickenhawks.

There you go... :hammer:

[CowboyJeff]

I don't understand. Why is it bad that Muslims are for Obama?

Oh I get it. You are being an ignorant racist conservative. Don't you have a KKK meeting you have to get to or something?


Muslims are a race?!?!?!? Talk about being ignorant!!! :lmao: Yeah, that KKK meeting you speak of is right next to the "I Hate Americans and Wish Them All Dead" meeting you frequently attend. If I'm a conservative, I guess that makes you a Marxist.

[quincyyyyy]

Muslims are a race?!?!?!? Talk about being ignorant!!! :lmao: Yeah, that KKK meeting you speak of is right next to the "I Hate Americans and Wish Them All Dead" meeting you frequently attend. If I'm a conservative, I guess that makes you a Marxist.

Sorry your right, that was a misnomer, you are not a racist. You are a bigot.

And no, I am not a Marxist, I am a moderate Democratic Socialist to be exact. Anyhoo you still hate Muslims, which makes you a terrible human being. That is probably why you are a conservative.

[CowboyJeff]

Sorry your right, that was a misnomer, you are not a racist. You are a bigot.

And no, I am not a Marxist, I am a moderate Democratic Socialist to be exact. Anyhoo you still hate Muslims, which makes you a terrible human being. That is probably why you are a conservative.

I love it when people who score a 4 on the Wonderlic use words without knowing their meaning. You just described yourself to a tee from the beginning of this thread:

Definition of bigot:

bigot (NOUN): One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

[quincyyyyy]

I love it when people who score a 4 on the Wonderlic use words without knowing their meaning. You just described yourself to a tee from the beginning of this thread:

Definition of bigot:

bigot (NOUN): One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

I am not intolerant of your views. You can spout off you anti-Muslim hate speech as much as you want. But if you do I am well within my rights as an American to call you a bigot. Which is just a fact, you are a bigot.

Oh and I didn't realize "bigot" is a big word... Maybe for you. BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

[iceberg]

Sorry your right, that was a misnomer, you are not a racist. You are a bigot.

And no, I am not a Marxist, I am a moderate Democratic Socialist to be exact. Anyhoo you still hate Muslims, which makes you a terrible human being. That is probably why you are a conservative.

I love it when people who score a 4 on the Wonderlic use words without knowing their meaning. You just described yourself to a tee from the beginning of this thread:

Definition of bigot:

bigot (NOUN): One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

I am not intolerant of your views. You can spout off you anti-Muslim hate speech as much as you want. But if you do I am well within my rights as an American to call you a bigot. Which is just a fact, you are a bigot.

Oh and I didn't realize "bigot" is a big word... Maybe for you. BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

he said that you didn't know what it meant, not that it was a big word.

and now you're judging people such as "conservative" makes for a terrible human being? and then this, in a thread talking about bigots and being tolerant of other views. you must be doing this crap on purpose.

troll - you need to be booted soon.

[quincyyyyy]

he said that you didn't know what it meant, not that it was a big word.

and now you're judging people such as "conservative" makes for a terrible human being? and then this, in a thread talking about bigots and being tolerant of other views. you must be doing this crap on purpose.

troll - you need to be booted soon.


He posted a picture of Muslims supporting Obama in a negative context. That is awful and bigoted any way you look at it. I'm not trying to be a troll, but I honestly don't know how you can justify his post. It was the same sort of bigoted smut conservatives do all the time and it hisses me off.

[iceberg]

He posted a picture of Muslims supporting Obama in a negative context. That is awful and bigoted any way you look at it. I'm not trying to be a troll, but I honestly don't know how you can justify his post. It was the same sort of bigoted smut conservatives do all the time and it hisses me off.

i don't know how you can go dogging on the soldiers and letting a bad few you've apparantely met control you thoughts about the entire service.

but then again i'm a conservative so i don't know how you can call me a bigoted smut but you do.

you fling insults out like candy on halloween dude but you sure don't seem to be able to take them.

[CowboyJeff]

He posted a picture of Muslims supporting Obama in a negative context. That is awful and bigoted any way you look at it. I'm not trying to be a troll, but I honestly don't know how you can justify his post. It was the same sort of bigoted smut conservatives do all the time and it hisses me off.

I posted a link to a website of Muslims supporting Obama, not a photo. Can you ever get any facts straight????? Each one of your posts is a caricature of the next. If you think that website is negative, that's your prerogative. The facts remain: Hamas just endorsed Obama and one of Obama's key advisers just resigned because of closed door meetings he had with Hamas. The only bigoted hate being spewed is by you and the Marxists you support. you are a bigot by every definition of the word, and you don't even know it. How sad.

[quincyyyyy]

I posted a link to a website of Muslims supporting Obama, not a photo. Can you ever get any facts straight????? Each one of your posts is a caricature of the next. If you think that website is negative, that's your prerogative. The facts remain: Hamas just endorsed Obama and one of Obama's key advisers just resigned because of closed door meetings he had with Hamas. The only bigoted hate being spewed is by you and the Marxists you support. you are a bigot by every definition of the word, and you don't even know it. How sad.

You and I both know what you did and how you meant it. It was disgusting.

And if you think that Hamas publicly supporting Obama for president means they actually want him to become president, then I got a bridge to sell you. I mean its not like there are millions of Hamas supporters in the U.S. that are now going to support Obama because Hamas now endorses him. Its obvious why they would do something like that. Think. But you are an ignorant bigot just like many conservatives, so I wouldn't expect you to know any better.

[burmafrd]

Keep it up Kartr. I can hear the knives sharpening among the mods.

[CowboyJeff]

You and I both know what you did and how you meant it. It was disgusting.

And if you think that Hamas publicly supporting Obama for president means they actually want him to become president, then I got a bridge to sell you. I mean its not like there are millions of Hamas supporters in the U.S. that are now going to support Obama because Hamas now endorses him. Its obvious why they would do something like that. Think. But you are an ignorant bigot just like many conservatives, so I wouldn't expect you to know any better.

You and I???? Please dont try and project your Marxist thoughts on me, Rev. Wright. Your racism and bigotry is duely noted.

[zrinkill]

I am a moderate Democratic Socialist

:lmao2:

A moderate socialist?

:lmao:

[Doomsday101]

McCain was given a chance to go home he refused. He did give a statement to his captures of committing a war crime against the people of Vietnam but only after being beaten severely. Funny those who were at the Hanoi Hilton with McCain felt he did no wrong at all

[Maikeru-sama]

I didn't even bother going to the website.

John McCain went to Vietnam when many were trying desparately to avoid it.

Now was Vietnam a hotbutton issue that is still debated to this day, you betcha.

Still doesn't take way from the fact that John McCain was IN-COUNTRY and put his life on the line for his country.

The same nonesense was pulled with John Kerry.

Must suck for these guys to actually go to Vietnam, fight and sometimes spend years as POWs and have to come home to a bunch of snot-nosed kids and armchair warriors questioning their loyalty to their country.

[Doomsday101]

I didn't even bother going to the website.

John McCain went to Vietnam when many were trying desparately to avoid it.

Now was Vietnam a hotbutton issue that is still debated to this day, you betcha.

Still doesn't take way from the fact that John McCain was IN-COUNTRY and put his life on the line for his country.

The same nonesense was pulled with John Kerry.

Must suck for these guys to actually go to Vietnam, fight and sometimes spend years as POWs and have to come home to a bunch of snot-nosed kids and armchair warriors questioning their loyalty to their country.

What made many vets upset with Kerry was things he said at the anti war rallies when he returned. In large part I agree with you that Kerry served when others didn't

[Maikeru-sama]

What made many vets upset with Kerry was things he said at the anti war rallies when he returned. In large part I agree with you that Kerry served when others didn't

So what?

The guy actually went to Vietnam and could have been killed, unlike George Bush and Slick Willy Clinton.

When you put your life on the line for the United States, in my book, you have a right to say whatever hell you want about a war, whether negative or positive.

Heck, we can at least give them that much as alot of them were forgotten, looked down on, spit on and called baby killers.

I definately give more credence to the opinions of those who actually fought, as opposed to the armchair warriors who opted out of the war and choose to serve in the "champagne unit" in the National Guard.

[Doomsday101]

So what?

The guy actually went to Vietnam and could have been killed, unlike George Bush and Slick Willy Clinton.

When you put your life on the line for the United States, in my book, you have a right to say whatever hell you want about a war, whether negative or positive.

Heck, we can at least give them that much as alot of them were forgotten, looked down on, spit on and called baby killers.

I definately give more credence to the opinions of those who actually fought, as opposed to the armchair warriors who opted out of the war and choose to serve in the "champagne unit" in the National Guard.

I agree I'm not a vet however I know many vietnam vets who are family member and friends of theirs who served in combat and all I can say is the main reason he got little support vets is because of Kerry actions and what he said when he returned. Anyone has a problem with that then they can take it up with these vets and there are many

[Hostile]

I didn't even bother going to the website.

John McCain went to Vietnam when many were trying desparately to avoid it.

Now was Vietnam a hotbutton issue that is still debated to this day, you betcha.

Still doesn't take way from the fact that John McCain was IN-COUNTRY and put his life on the line for his country.

The same nonesense was pulled with John Kerry.

Must suck for these guys to actually go to Vietnam, fight and sometimes spend years as POWs and have to come home to a bunch of snot-nosed kids and armchair warriors questioning their loyalty to their country.JMO, but all of that nonsense started with the furor over Clinton being a Draft Dodger, and in truth, I can understand some of that. It is hard for some people to support a man as Commander in Chief when he turned his back on that same military.

For years we got told that his being a "Conscientious Objector" was no big deal. Then suddenly Bush's service in the National Guard instead of the active Military was a big deal. I confess I don't get that?

So naturally the gloves were off and Kerry's service had to be discounted somehow.

Now it is continuing with McCain.

I personally do not like it. I don't like when anyone's military service is ridiculed. That includes the National Guard, Coast Guard, and Reserves. I don't like it. But apparently it is fun for some to sling that kind of mud.

[Maikeru-sama]

I agree I'm not a vet however I know many vietnam vets who are family member and friends of theirs who served in combat and all I can say is the main reason he got little support vets is because of Kerry actions and what he said when he returned. Anyone has a problem with that then they can take it up with these vets and there are many

"Little support" is one thing, but flat out challenging the guys service record and his metals was partisian and vitriolic at best.

What they did is no different from what the Website the OP posted is trying to do to John McCain. The only reason you don't have a problem with it is because you don't like John Kerry, which is one thing we do have in common.

However, like John McCain, the guy fought for his country, which is especially admirable when it seemed alot folks wouldn't.

[Maikeru-sama]

JMO, but all of that nonsense started with the furor over Clinton being a Draft Dodger, and in truth, I can understand some of that. It is hard for some people to support a man as Commander in Chief when he turned his back on that same military.

For years we got told that his being a "Conscientious Objector" was no big deal. Then suddenly Bush's service in the National Guard instead of the active Military was a big deal. I confess I don't get that?

So naturally the gloves were off and Kerry's service had to be discounted somehow.

Now it is continuing with McCain.

I personally do not like it. I don't like when anyone's military service is ridiculed. That includes the National Guard, Coast Guard, and Reserves. I don't like it. But apparently it is fun for some to sling that kind of mud.

Slick Willy was criticized just as heavily as Shrub when it came to their lack of military service, although at least the Shrub was in the National Guard.

However, the orgins of this insidious election year ritual doesn't concern me.

What does concern me is someone like John McCain can put his life on the line for his country and somehow be branded a traitor.

[burmafrd]

Of course with Kerry he started to guild the lilly by talking about so called missions in Cambodia= and that just opened the door wider. McCain has never embellished or added anything; and he did NOT trash the entire military with garbage like Kerry did when he got back. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Hostile]

Slick Willy was criticized just as heavily as Shrub when it came to their lack of military service, although at least the Shrub was in the National Guard.

However, the orgins of this insidious election year ritual doesn't concern me.

What does concern me is someone like John McCain can put his life on the line for his country and somehow be branded a traitor.I agree, that bothers me a great deal, but you also have to understand that people in this country as a whole are not happy unless something is miserable.

I'm talking about people who stand there and profess to your face that they love our soldiers and just want them home and then when the soldiers get home they call them "baby killers" and other vile names.

Please note, I am not pointing a finger at either political party when I say this. During Viet Nam it was Kennedy and Johnson (Democrats) who were in charge and Nixon (Republican) when we pulled out of that conflict. It was the same hatred of our soldiers then as it is now where the situation of which party is in political control of the Oval Office is exactly the opposite.

That is why I do like George W. Bush more than any other reason. Because those who protest against America hate him. They can say that they are not anti-America and I will never buy it. Know why? It's real simple, they do not protest all wars, just ones in which America is involved. Bush is their villian, so I like him.

[Doomsday101]

"Little support" is one thing, but flat out challenging the guys service record and his metals was partisian and vitriolic at best.

What they did is no different from what the Website the OP posted is trying to do to John McCain. The only reason you don't have a problem with it is because you don't like John Kerry, which is one thing we do have in common.

However, like John McCain, the guy fought for his country, which is especially admirable when it seemed alot folks wouldn't.

That was a 527 PAC group the swift boat vets who did that, I wish all 527 pacs were eliminated but they are not and these groups can do and say what they want with little control. The group making these comments on McCain is also 527 PAC groups not controlled by the Dems or the Rep.

[Jordan55]

I'm talking about people who stand there and profess to your face that they love our soldiers and just want them home and then when the soldiers get home they call them "baby killers" and other vile names.
Please note, I am not pointing a finger at either political party when I say this. During Viet Nam it was Kennedy and Johnson (Democrats) who were in charge and Nixon (Republican) when we pulled out of that conflict. It was the same hatred of our soldiers then as it is now where the situation of which party is in political control of the Oval Office is exactly the opposite.

Well it sure as hell isn't coming from the Republican Party, so let's point the finger or give them the finger, whatever suits your temperment.:D

[Maikeru-sama]

I agree, that bothers me a great deal, but you also have to understand that people in this country as a whole are not happy unless somethign is miserable.

I'm talking about people who stand there and profess to your face that they love our soldiers and just want them home and then when the soldiers get home they call them "baby killers" and other vile names.

Please note, I am not pointing a finger at either political party when I say this. During Viet Nam it was Kennedy and Johnson (Democrats) who were in charge and Nixon (Republican) when we pulled out of that conflict. It was the same hatred of our soldiers then as it is now where the situation of which party is in political control of the Oval Office is exactly the opposite.

That is why I do like George W. Bush more than any other reason. Because those who protest against America hate him. They can say that they are not anti-America and I will never buy it. Know why? It's real simple, they do not protest all wars, just ones in which America is involved. Bush is their villian, so I like him.

Interesting

[Hostile]

InterestingIt's true Mike. Try and think of any war that does not involve America that War Protestors were involved in across this country.

They want to desecrate the flag and belittle America. Nothing more.

I live near a park where there was an anti-war rally a few months ago. A man was walking past where I live while I was talking with a friend. He was carrying a pole with an upside down American flag. That is a signal of distress and I consider it to be extremely insulting.

The demonstrations are not about war, they are about America at war. It took every bit of restraint in my body not to mug that guy and honor that flag. I am being dead serious about that too. While I do not particularly care about political parties one way or the other, anti-America sentiments bother me to no end.

Merle Haggard said it best. "When you're running down my country man, you're walking on the fighting side of me."

I do not like war protestors at all. They are not anti-war, they are anti-America. They can claim different but until I see them protesting anythign other than American involvement and burning other country's flags they are liars.

[Rackat]

It's true Mike. Try and think of any war that does not involve America that War Protestors were involved in across this country.

They want to desecrate the flag and belittle America. Nothing more.

I live near a park where there was an anti-war rally a few months ago. A man was walking past where I live while I was talking with a friend. He was carrying a pole with an upside down American flag. That is a signal of distress and I consider it to be extremely insulting.

The demonstrations are not about war, they are about America at war. It took every bit of restraint in my body not to mug that guy and honor that flag. I am being dead serious about that too. While I do not particularly care about political parties one way or the other, anti-America sentiments bother me to no end.

Merle Haggard said it best. "When you're running down my country man, you're walking on the fighting side of me."

I do not like war protestors at all. They are not anti-war, they are anti-America. They can claim different but until I see them protesting anythign other than American involvement and burning other country's flags they are liars.
Amen.

[Maikeru-sama]

It's true Mike. Try and think of any war that does not involve America that War Protestors were involved in across this country.

They want to desecrate the flag and belittle America. Nothing more.

I live near a park where there was an anti-war rally a few months ago. A man was walking past where I live while I was talking with a friend. He was carrying a pole with an upside down American flag. That is a signal of distress and I consider it to be extremely insulting.

The demonstrations are not about war, they are about America at war. It took every bit of restraint in my body not to mug that guy and honor that flag. I am being dead serious about that too. While I do not particularly care about political parties one way or the other, anti-America sentiments bother me to no end.

Merle Haggard said it best. "When you're running down my country man, you're walking on the fighting side of me."

I do not like war protestors at all. They are not anti-war, they are anti-America. They can claim different but until I see them protesting anythign other than American involvement and burning other country's flags they are liars.

Hos, me and you will just have to disagree.

I do not think all anti-war protestors are anti-american.

Taking a look at Vietnam and the 2nd Iraq war, two confrontations that are known for high levels of Anti-War Protesting, one has to admit that a large section of the American populace were uneasy and doubtful of the conflicts.

[Hostile]

Hos, me and you will just have to disagree.

I do not think all anti-war protestors are anti-american.

Taking a look at Vietnam and the 2nd Iraq war, two confrontations that are known for high levels of Anti-War Protesting, one has to admit that a large section of the American populace were uneasy and doubtful of the conflicts.That just doesn't do it for me amigo. Otherwise our soldiers would not be denegrated and called baby killers when they come home. And these same people would have uneasy feelings about all questionable wars. They would protest the Khmer Rouge's actions in Cambodia before the US got involved. They didn't. They would protest Hussein's actions in Kuwait and against this own people. They didn't.

[quincyyyyy]

:lmao2:

A moderate socialist?

:lmao:

I am not an extreme Democratic socialist but a moderate one, which would put me to the left of the Democratic party you . I am definitely not a "moderate" in the American political sphere. I am very liberal in the American sense.

[iceberg]

I am not an extreme Democratic socialist but a moderate one, which would put me to the left of the Democratic party you dolt. I am definitely not a "moderate" in the American political sphere. I am very liberal in the American sense.

this is right up there with:

1. it takes air to breathe
2. water is necessary for life
3. round wheels work better than square ones

some things you just don't need to say, quin. we know.

[quincyyyyy]

I didn't even bother going to the website.

John McCain went to Vietnam when many were trying desparately to avoid it.

Now was Vietnam a hotbutton issue that is still debated to this day, you betcha.

Still doesn't take way from the fact that John McCain was IN-COUNTRY and put his life on the line for his country.

The same nonesense was pulled with John Kerry.

Must suck for these guys to actually go to Vietnam, fight and sometimes spend years as POWs and have to come home to a bunch of snot-nosed kids and armchair warriors questioning their loyalty to their country.

Hey its not me. These are Vietnam Vets who are doing it. The same Vets Bush used in his campaign against McCain in South Carolina.

But for some reason all you people didn't care when it was happening to John Kerry, or at least remained silent. There's a little taste of your own medicine.

[Maikeru-sama]

That just doesn't do it for me amigo. Otherwise our soldiers would not be denegrated and called baby killers when they come home. And these same people would have uneasy feelings about all questionable wars. They would protest the Khmer Rouge's actions in Cambodia before the US got involved. They didn't. They would protest Hussein's actions in Kuwait and agaisn this own people. They didn't.

That's fine.

Your are certainly entitled to equate anti-war protests with anti-americanism.

[Hostile]

Hey its not me. These are Vietnam Vets who are doing it. The same Vets Bush used in his campaign against McCain in South Carolina.

But for some reason all you people didn't care when it was happening to John Kerry, or at least remained silent. There's a little taste of your own medicine.Actually I didn't remain silent. I hated it then. I hate it now. Tit for tat politics annoys the hell out of me. Bleet away.

[Hostile]

That's fine.

Your are certainly entitled to equate anti-war protests with anti-americanism.Thanks. I do.

[Doomsday101]

That just doesn't do it for me amigo. Otherwise our soldiers would not be denegrated and called baby killers when they come home. And these same people would have uneasy feelings about all questionable wars. They would protest the Khmer Rouge's actions in Cambodia before the US got involved. They didn't. They would protest Hussein's actions in Kuwait and agaisn this own people. They didn't.

The only reason the protest are not the same size as it was in Vietnam is because today there is no draft. The men and women who are in Iraq are part of an all volunteer military

[quincyyyyy]

I'm talking about people who stand there and profess to your face that they love our soldiers and just want them home and then when the soldiers get home they call them "baby killers" and other vile names.


Or how about the same people who profess to "love" our soldiers then send them into conflicts where they are getting maimed and killed for no good reason.

[Hostile]

The only reason the protest are not the same size as it was in Vietnam is because today there is no draft. The men and women who are in Iraq are part of an all volunteer militaryThat is true, but I really wasn't talking about size of protests. I am talking about the focus of them. Why didn't we see these same protestors burning Soviet Union hammer and sickle flags when they invaded Afghanistan? Why don't these protestors burn Israeli flags when they bomb Hamas targets? Why don't these protestors burn Chinese flags when the bravest man I have ever seen stands in front of a tank in Tienanman Square? Why didn't they burn Iraqi flags when Hussein invaded Kuwait?

[Hostile]

Or how about the same people who profess to "love" our soldiers then send them into conflicts where they are getting maimed and killed for no good reason.Rings hollow with me. I would go and serve, and die. I would send my daughter if she enlisted and was sent there. I don't think it is because of no good reason. Never have. Never will.

[Doomsday101]

That is true, but I really wasn't talking about size of protests. I am talking about the focus of them. Why didn't we see these same protestors burning Soviet Union hammer and sickle flags when they invaded Afghanistan? Why don't these protestors burn Israeli flags when they bomb Hamas targets? Why don't these protestors burn Chinese flags when the bravest man I have ever seen stands in front of a tank in Tienanman Square? Why didn't they burn Iraqi flags when Hussein invaded Kuwait?

I agree with you. We have some are quick to damn America while sitting back as many of these atrocities around the world take place.

[iceberg]

Or how about the same people who profess to "love" our soldiers then send them into conflicts where they are getting maimed and killed for no good reason.

i thought it was their job and what they got paid for and you were more worried about the police instead.

flip...flop...

[quincyyyyy]

Rings hollow with me. I would go and serve, and die. I would send my daughter if she enlisted and was sent there. I don't think it is because of no good reason. Never have. Never will.


Then why are we in Iraq? Why are we wasting trillions of tax payer dollars, thousands of American lives, seriously maiming tens of thousands of American soldiers, and stretching our military hopelessly thin that we can't properly deal with emerging threats. Why are we doing this?

[quincyyyyy]

i thought it was their job and what they got paid for and you were more worried about the police instead.

flip...flop...


No I have said this over and over again. The military is an important and necessary component in American society, but they need not act like they are better than every other profession because they are not. That is what annoys me.

[Hostile]

I agree with you. We have some are quick to damn America while sitting back as many of these atrocities around the world take place.Exactly, and that is my number 1 problem with politics. It is too fragmented to ever actually accomplish anything.

Where was the ERA and their protests when an Intern was servicing our President? Where are they in defense of women's rights in the Middle East?

Why aren't gay rights groups protesting for gay people's rights in the Middle East and urging our country to do something about the atrocities committed against gays there?

Why do people who profess to be Pro Life, blow up abortion clinics and kill Doctors and nurses?

Why do PETA supporters not throw paint on biker's leather jackets but will on old ladies fur coats?

Why is it that the word Conservative and Conservation come from the same root word, but Conservatives are anti-environment?

These are things I do not get.

[Hostile]

Then why are we in Iraq? Why are we wasting trillions of tax payer dollars, thousands of American lives, seriously maiming tens of thousands of American soldiers, and stretching our military hopelessly thin that we can't properly deal with emerging threats. Why are we doing this?Because it was the right thing to do and I don't see that money as wasted.

[ConcordCowboy]

This kind of crap is wrong.

It was wrong when it was done to Kerry and the same goes for McCain.

[Doomsday101]

This kind of crap is wrong.

It was wrong when it was done to Kerry and the same goes for McCain.

I agree but until these 527 PAC can be eliminated these types of character assassinations will continue to take place from these groups who can put out what they want with no real accountability. One of the big groups Moveon .org is also a 527 PAC group and can make any statements they wish

[Maikeru-sama]

Hey its not me. These are Vietnam Vets who are doing it. The same Vets Bush used in his campaign against McCain in South Carolina.

But for some reason all you people didn't care when it was happening to John Kerry, or at least remained silent. There's a little taste of your own medicine.

I would respond but it looks like you were banned.

If I may ask, why was he banned?

[iceberg]

No I have said this over and over again. The military is an important and necessary component in American society, but they need not act like they are better than every other profession because they are not. That is what annoys me.

you tend to see one or two people do something and then think they *all* do that. my father was in the military, he never acted above everyone else. some of my very best friends have served and are still serving, i never hear them talk like that.

most of the ones i talk to are thankful they don't come home to anti-war crap except for a few funerals the far left whacko's feel it ok to harass.

you tend to let 1 trait annoy you and then...."liberally" apply that trait around as if true across the board. i would hazzard a guess if anyone put some stereotypes on you and tried to pass it off as "fact" you'd not like it, yet you do it all the time.

you do it to me and so far anyone who disagrees with you.

and you wonder where the "troll" verbiage comes from. you don't want to be one, don't act like one.

[iceberg]

I would respond but it looks like you were banned.

If I may ask, why was he banned?

my guess would be he's been given a few days in the corner to think about it.

if i were to guess at why, likely cause all he seems to do is stir things up. the digging on the soldiers he was told several times to back away and he just got lockjaw in a bad area. that and he has a tendency to insult people quite heavily through distant stereotypes.

[Dallas]

my guess would be he's been given a few days in the corner to think about it.

if i were to guess at why, likely cause all he seems to do is stir things up. the digging on the soldiers he was told several times to back away and he just got lockjaw in a bad area.

There is a thing called decorum? I think that covers it w/ him.

He lacked it.

[Hostile]

I would respond but it looks like you were banned.

If I may ask, why was he banned?Something no longer visible.

[Hostile]

This kind of crap is wrong.

It was wrong when it was done to Kerry and the same goes for McCain.I agree. I understand if their fellow soldiers from Viet Nam don't want to vote for them, but don't drag them into the mud and denegrate the service they gave. That bothers me to no end.

It should NOT be a political stance if someone served. I also think it shouldn't be a political stance that John McCain's son is serving. I admire him for that. I admire McCain more for not letting it be political. I hope he continues that.

[DFWJC]

I sure will... remember, not one Iraqi ever ASKED us to come "liberate" them... not one of them had risen up in opposition to Saddam's repression...

.

I agree with some your posts, but the above statement is preposterous. You really need to to look into that in a little more detail. Many thousands oppossed his repression and died horrific deaths for it during his many years of rule. How could you say otherwise?

[Doomsday101]

I agree with some your posts, but the above statement is preposterous. You really need to to look into that in a little more detail. Many thousands oppossed his repression and died horrific deaths for it during his many years of rule. How could you say otherwise?

True and when these people did start an uprising after the Gulf War many were gassed and many were arrested and put to death. They did try and stand up to Saddam

[iceberg]

I agree with some your posts, but the above statement is preposterous. You really need to to look into that in a little more detail. Many thousands oppossed his repression and died horrific deaths for it during his many years of rule. How could you say otherwise?

when you wrap yourself so tightly in a belief, it almost kills a part of you to let it go.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Because it was the right thing to do and I don't see that money as wasted.

Actually I think a LOT of money was wasted. Does not matter if I think it was right or wrong to go into Iraq, but there has been a great deal of money wasted.

The money we pay to the company that is to make sure our soldiers have clean drinking water yet they did not do their job the whole time and in turn got many GIs sick. Not to long ago I also heard that some soldiers were electrocuted in showers because of shoddy electrical work by some company.

We have had a case(s) of large sums of money just disappearing. We have had cases of a large number of weapons disappearing. We wasted a great deal of money and man power in failed military plans before Rummy left and Patreaus took command.

We have about as many contractors in Iraq as we do military men.

There has been a great deal of money wasted IMO. With the money we have spent on one month of war we could have probably had multiple projects up and running for alternative sources for cars/fuel.

[Maikeru-sama]

my guess would be he's been given a few days in the corner to think about it.

if i were to guess at why, likely cause all he seems to do is stir things up. the digging on the soldiers he was told several times to back away and he just got lockjaw in a bad area. that and he has a tendency to insult people quite heavily through distant stereotypes.

To be honest there are some people on here that do this quite frequently, although it may not be as extreme as kartr/quincyyy.

[iceberg]

To be honest there are some people on here that do this quite frequently, although it may not be as extreme as kartr/quincyyy.

i would agree on both sides. but you gotta put up a line somewhere i suppose and just do whatever you can.

i've had some people ignore me cause i didn't ride along on their hate parade and actually bulldogged the big WTH's (what the hells) in their logic and it tends to upset those who don't see the holes themselves.

[Maikeru-sama]

i would agree on both sides. but you gotta put up a line somewhere i suppose and just do whatever you can.

i've had some people ignore me cause i didn't ride along on their hate parade and actually bulldogged the big WTH's (what the hells) in their logic and it tends to upset those who don't see the holes themselves.

Agreed

[BrAinPaiNt]

i would agree on both sides. but you gotta put up a line somewhere i suppose and just do whatever you can.

i've had some people ignore me cause i didn't ride along on their hate parade and actually bulldogged the big WTH's (what the hells) in their logic and it tends to upset those who don't see the holes themselves.

People sometimes put you on ignore...because you have some serious stalker like tendencies. Not being mean towards you but sometimes that is why people just quit dealing with you and by no means are you the only one...I am guilty of it from time to time as well when I am in an arguing mood, or just bored.:D

[iceberg]

People sometimes put you on ignore...because you have some serious stalker like tendencies. Not being mean towards you but sometimes that is why people just quit dealing with you and by no means are you the only one...I am guilty of it from time to time as well when I am in an arguing mood, or just bored.:D

never denied that, bp. the last person to put me on ignore was silverbear. the ironic part was about a week before he did that i was trying *so very hard* to NOT upset him and get in his face like he gets into others. i never wanted he and i to get on opposite sides of the fence.

so i told him in a post i was trying hard to NOT say something he can misinterpret. he goes on saying not to worry about it, it's all good and he won't have a problem with me kicking it up some.

i do, and i get put on ignore.

i tend to bulldog on the ... questionable things people say and just want clarification on how they got there. i usually get anger back which twists up the initial logic and yes, i do push that. not being "mean" at all to say so, bp.

i wanna go the distance and understand as much as i can and yes, i'll push the issue. no problem. some people just wanna yell and shout and not think about why. the biggest issues i can have with people are those who only talk in stereotypes and hate the same way.

it's a valid "shot" on my personality bp. something i've tried to not do as much but sometimes, i get just as frustrated as the people i'm talking to and very few can keep up with my sarcastic side when i set it free.

[BrAinPaiNt]

never denied that, bp. the last person to put me on ignore was silverbear. the ironic part was about a week before he did that i was trying *so very hard* to NOT upset him and get in his face like he gets into others. i never wanted he and i to get on opposite sides of the fence.

so i told him in a post i was trying hard to NOT say something he can misinterpret. he goes on saying not to worry about it, it's all good and he won't have a problem with me kicking it up some.

i do, and i get put on ignore.

i tend to bulldog on the ... questionable things people say and just want clarification on how they got there. i usually get anger back which twists up the initial logic and yes, i do push that. not being "mean" at all to say so, bp.

i wanna go the distance and understand as much as i can and yes, i'll push the issue. no problem. some people just wanna yell and shout and not think about why. the biggest issues i can have with people are those who only talk in stereotypes and hate the same way.

it's a valid "shot" on my personality bp. something i've tried to not do as much but sometimes, i get just as frustrated as the people i'm talking to and very few can keep up with my sarcastic side when i set it free.

Well you and Silver seem like brothers of sorts to me. Your personalities so mirror each other it is scary sometimes. It is just you two are on the opposite side of the spectrum.

However something that does kind of irk me with the ignore feature. People who know they are on ignore, or know they put others on ignore...still tend to keep blabbing at the other person that either has them on ignore or they themselves put on ignore.

In that case...do they really have them on ignore or really trying to ignore them? Kind of hard to say it is a good effort to do so when they keep going at each other or throwing a remark to them on a regular basis.

Hope that makes sense.

[iceberg]

Well you and Silver seem like brothers of sorts to me. Your personalities so mirror each other it is scary sometimes. It is just you two are on the opposite side of the spectrum.

However something that does kind of irk me with the ignore feature. People who know they are on ignore, or know they put others on ignore...still tend to keep blabbing at the other person that either has them on ignore or they themselves put on ignore.

In that case...do they really have them on ignore or really trying to ignore them? Kind of hard to say it is a good effort to do so when they keep going at each other or throwing a remark to them on a regular basis.

Hope that makes sense.

makes perfect sense. i just don't feel because someone else put me on ignore i must do the same to them.

[BrAinPaiNt]

makes perfect sense. i just don't feel because someone else put me on ignore i must do the same to them.

Yes...I like reading posts about people who love talking to brick walls.:laugh2:

I would love to be able to put some people on ignore. Maybe I am bitter towards those that have the chance to do it but refuse to do it.

[iceberg]

Yes...I like reading posts about people who love talking to brick walls.:laugh2:

I would love to be able to put some people on ignore. Maybe I am bitter towards those that have the chance to do it but refuse to do it.

want me to ignore someone for you for awhile? depending on who not sure how long i can hold out. : )

those with me on ignore can ramble away. i'll reply back when i have something to say. if they've chosen not to read it, fine. but i'll still state my views just the same.

not sure about SB and i being all that close. we're both pretty bull-headed. but i seldom jump on stereotypes and a single issue to base my overall stance on and he's quick to do just that. you can PM me if you want but i'm just curious as to what traits you see here. : )

[Hostile]

Actually I think a LOT of money was wasted. Does not matter if I think it was right or wrong to go into Iraq, but there has been a great deal of money wasted.

The money we pay to the company that is to make sure our soldiers have clean drinking water yet they did not do their job the whole time and in turn got many GIs sick. Not to long ago I also heard that some soldiers were electrocuted in showers because of shoddy electrical work by some company.

We have had a case(s) of large sums of money just disappearing. We have had cases of a large number of weapons disappearing. We wasted a great deal of money and man power in failed military plans before Rummy left and Patreaus took command.

We have about as many contractors in Iraq as we do military men.

There has been a great deal of money wasted IMO. With the money we have spent on one month of war we could have probably had multiple projects up and running for alternative sources for cars/fuel.That's your right. It is my right not to agree. I am going to openly admit I didn't read the rest of the post. I am so sick of commentary about what we're doing in Iraq that I simply can't stomach it. No offense meant at all. I believe we are there for the right reasons doing the right things. Have we done perfectly? No, and I've never said we have.

[BrAinPaiNt]

want me to ignore someone for you for awhile? depending on who not sure how long i can hold out. : )

those with me on ignore can ramble away. i'll reply back when i have something to say. if they've chosen not to read it, fine. but i'll still state my views just the same.

not sure about SB and i being all that close. we're both pretty bull-headed. but i seldom jump on stereotypes and a single issue to base my overall stance on and he's quick to do just that. you can PM me if you want but i'm just curious as to what traits you see here. : )

No...you can keep going. It is just a pet peeve of mine and that does not mean it is fair to ask you to do otherwise because of my pet peeve. You are not breaking the rules in doing it.

As far as you and silver. I see both bullheaded views on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I am very bull headed as well so I am not innocent in it. I think you both LOVE to debate anything and go on hours and hours about it. I can do that as well but I don't think I am as apt to do it about everything. I think you two can keep up on the topic past what I am willing to go on about. In other words I grow bored with a debate after some time while you guys can go on way longer.
I also think that although he does throw more stereotypes or labels out there than you do, I think you do more than you realize. That is just my observation...others may not view it the same.

I don't mind the labels as much. I tend to put them in a box if I feel they fit. However I will also argue both sides of the political spectrum depending on how I feel about the topic.

I am not sure how many people on here dislike so many prominent Republicans and Democrats as I do.

[BrAinPaiNt]

That's your right. It is my right not to agree. I am going to openly admit I didn't read the rest of the post. I am so sick of commentary about what we're doing in Iraq that I simply can't stomach it. No offense meant at all. I believe we are there for the right reasons doing the right things. Have we done perfectly? No, and I've never said we have.

If you would have read further you would have realized that I said it was not based on if you think it is right or wrong to be there. Makes no difference on how you fall on that decision.

However, money has been wasted no matter how you feel about the decision to go in as being a good or bad one.

Money...not principals, not morales, not right or wrong, not lives saved or lost...just money.

It has been wasted in many areas.

[Hostile]

If you would have read further you would have realized that I said it was not based on if you think it is right or wrong to be there. Makes no difference on how you fall on that decision.

However, money has been wasted no matter how you feel about the decision to go in as being a good or bad one.

Money...not principals, not morales, not right or wrong, not lives saved or lost...just money.

It has been wasted in many areas.Money is wasted by the Government on a lot of things. I refuse to demonize our efforts in Iraq in that manner.

That's all I am saying.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Money is wasted by the Government on a lot of things. I refuse to demonize our efforts in Iraq in that manner.

That's all I am saying.

Well that was not my point to demonize it in my post. I do enough in others.:D

I was just making a point that a great deal of money has been wasted.

I don't care for the original poster that said it, I don't agree with 99% of their takes on the issue, which is saying quite a bit considering how I dislike bush.

But in that one instance...I agree, money has been wasted.

And what irks me about it is the idea that we could have used some of that wasted money to better support the troops with better equipment. Give them a raise, speed this new GI bill through and so on.

Instead we lose a big amount of money...it just disappeared, no joking. Or a mass number of weapons that just disappear.

That hurts our soldiers and our efforts.

[iceberg]

No...you can keep going. It is just a pet peeve of mine and that does not mean it is fair to ask you to do otherwise because of my pet peeve. You are not breaking the rules in doing it.

As far as you and silver. I see both bullheaded views on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I am very bull headed as well so I am not innocent in it. I think you both LOVE to debate anything and go on hours and hours about it. I can do that as well but I don't think I am as apt to do it about everything. I think you two can keep up on the topic past what I am willing to go on about. In other words I grow bored with a debate after some time while you guys can go on way longer.
I also think that although he does throw more stereotypes or labels out there than you do, I think you do more than you realize. That is just my observation...others may not view it the same.

I don't mind the labels as much. I tend to put them in a box if I feel they fit. However I will also argue both sides of the political spectrum depending on how I feel about the topic.

I am not sure how many people on here dislike so many prominent Republicans and Democrats as I do.

ok, that i can see and understand. as for stereotypes, i'm sure we all talk in generalities, you really can't avoid it. i'm sure i do it more than i realize also and in the past you've pointed out some of my ... doing what i hate ... tendencies and i try to take it as it is - *i* did it and i'll work on it.

to me there's a difference in talking republicans/democrats/liberals and so forth that's just talking about the group, not applying that stereotype to a person. if you see me do that PM me and let me know. i may not agree but i'd like to see how others view it and at least explain intent.

so maybe i do. but i won't ignore you if you call me on it. : )

[DFWJC]

This thread (and the title) represents a new low. Congrats...you must be very proud.

[iceberg]

This thread (and the title) represents a new low. Congrats...you must be very proud.

damn proud. not sure how, but that prideful feeling is rising high in me.

now, care to elaborate?

[DFWJC]

damn proud. not sure how, but that prideful feeling is rising high in me.

now, care to elaborate?

LOL. Reference is to quincyyy's idea for the original post. I'm no huge McCain fan, but just can't see him as a betrayer of his country. So, again, the "you shoud be proud" comment was for good 'ol quinc.

[iceberg]

LOL. Reference is to quincyyy's idea for the original post. I'm no huge McCain fan, but just can't see him as a betrayer of his country. So, again, the "you shoud be proud" comment was for good 'ol quinc.

well he got himself banned for that prideful feeling of his own so we dunno if he'll ever see it again. :cool:

[DFWJC]

well he got himself banned for that prideful feeling of his own so we dunno if he'll ever see it again. :cool:

I have a feeling he'll oooze under a doorway somehow in the not-too-distant future.

[iceberg]

I have a feeling he'll oooze under a doorway somehow in the not-too-distant future.

(barracades the room with salt trails at all entrances)