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Sasquatch
05-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Is the Party Over?
By Eval Press
The Nation

Although the Democrats may still find a way to lose the election in November, no serious observer would suggest today that it would be because they succumbed to an indomitable foe. Less than a full election cycle after Rove's "permanent majority" was said to be upon us, Bush's approval ratings have sunk to the lowest level of any President since presidential job-approval ratings were introduced. Republicans in Congress are streaming for the exits. Surveys show young voters identifying as Democrats over Republicans by double-digit margins, and the 81 percent of Americans who believe the country is seriously "on the wrong track" have conservatives wondering aloud whether Rove's dream has become a nightmare.

"Without change we could face a catastrophic election this fall," warned former House Speaker Newt Gingrich in a May 6 article on the website of the journal Human Events. His prognosis is echoed in several new books written by conservatives that come wrapped in optimistic packaging about how the situation may be righted with the proper adjustments but that are full of gloomy pronouncements about the disaster to come if the same tired formula is pursued. "A generation of young Americans has been lost to our party," worries former Bush speechwriter David Frum in Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again, the content of which is far less sanguine than the title suggests. "Conservatives have conspicuously failed to earn [Americans'] trust on most domestic policy questions," write journalists Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam in Grand New Party, which argues that Bush's plutocratic policies have begun to alienate even many on the right.


The chastened tone of these books is striking in a movement that could scarcely have sounded more sure of itself a few years ago, when the myriad factions of the Republican Party--libertarians, opponents of abortion, champions of big business, neocons--appeared to be marching in lockstep to Karl Rove's tune. Now Republicans are hurling blame at Bush for betraying conservative principles as they search about for scapegoats.


"Everyone is sniping at each other," a member of the House Republican Conference recently told Politico shortly after the GOP lost a special election in Louisiana's 6th District, a seat it had held since 1975. The defeat came on the heels of a similar setback in March in Illinois, in the district formerly represented by Dennis Hastert. These turnovers, and a widely anticipated special election loss on May 13 in Mississippi, cast a grim shadow over a recent meeting on Capitol Hill where Tom Cole, chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee, warned members there were no resources to "save" incumbents facing well-heeled Democratic challengers.


To some degree, strategic and philosophical tensions among conservatives are nothing new. The priorities of Friedrich von Hayek devotees and James Dobson fans, to say nothing of pro-empire neoconservatives and isolationist paleocons, have never been neatly aligned. In many ways, it's a wonder such disparate groups ever found a home in the same party. Yet every time hopes have risen on the left that the various strands of the conservative coalition might unravel, these hopes have been dashed. The conservative movement that has reshaped the political landscape over the past four decades has proven resilient and enviably adept at pressing forward with an agenda that never seems to moderate. Will now be any different? Will the conservative crackup under Bush come to be seen as a minor detour on the right's steady march to power? Or will it bring an era to a close?


Some who see a lasting realignment under way point to demographic factors, in particular the growing numbers of Hispanics, Asians, professional women and unmarried people who have joined the electorate in recent years and to whom the GOP has done little to endear itself. But while the number of registered Republicans has been falling steadily, more Americans still identify themselves as conservative than liberal. The main problem facing the conservative movement is not demographic. It is doctrinal. It is the problem that confronts any insurgency whose heady idealism comes crashing up against reality once power is seized.


For forty years, the most important trait of conservatives of all stripes has been their unshakable conviction that their vision and their ideas are right. Moral permissiveness, a feckless foreign policy, a welfare-dependent underclass: all the viruses that had infected the body politic under the stewardship of liberals would be cured if only conservatives were given a chance. The right was united above all in its belief that a new Eden would dawn when Americans were liberated from the tyranny of government, whose intrusive hands reached unwarrantedly into every aspect of citizens' lives (save, of course, the bedroom, where those hands were needed to prevent overly liberated citizens from indulging the wrong impulses). When Bill Clinton ended welfare and declared that the era of big government was over, the argument seemed to have been cinched: at long last, even Democrats had come to realize the folly of their ways. But something funny happened on the way to making the revolution complete: when Republicans were finally given the opportunity to free the citizenry from the chains of the Leviathan state, the result was crony capitalism, fiscal recklessness and bumbling incompetence on an unprecedented scale. The opportunity to govern without interference from liberals came, and the consequences--in New Orleans, in Baghdad, in neighborhoods ravaged by housing foreclosures, in levels of inequality unmatched since the Gilded Age--have been calamitous.


Conservatives stunned by this turn of events shouldn't be: it's not exactly shocking that a party committed to the idea that government is the problem did not appoint qualified experts to run agencies like FEMA. Or that a party that views the market as a solution to everything found a way to disburse no-bid contracts to the likes of Halliburton and tax cuts to billionaires in the midst of a war. Yet the idea that Republicans could shrink the bloated government down to size without compromising the national interest--indeed, while enhancing freedom--has proved anything but easy to rebut. Ronald Reagan won landslide victories by promising to get big government off ordinary Americans' backs. Democrats were routinely pilloried as "tax-and-spend liberals" who poured voters' hard-earned savings into outmoded social programs that only exacerbated the problems they promised to solve.


It took Bush's ruinous tenure to illustrate that there are some problems--predatory lending, escalating energy costs, natural disasters--for which the government is a necessary remedy and, perhaps, to persuade less affluent voters to think twice before aligning themselves with the Republican Party against "liberal elites." For several decades, Republicans have succeeded in luring such voters into their ranks not merely by promising to lower their taxes but also by tapping into their cultural anxieties on issues like gay marriage, abortion and guns. A few years ago, one would have been hard-pressed to find a pundit in the country who didn't think this strategy was working. Indeed, the evidence suggested as much: in 2004, for example, white working-class women with annual household incomes between $30,000 and $50,000 backed Republicans by a margin of 60 to 39 percent. Their support helped Bush carry crucial blue-collar states like Ohio. Soon thereafter, Time magazine named Bush its Person of the Year.


Two years later, however, this same group of female voters swung to the Democrats, and just like that the GOP majority in Congress was gone. The shift undoubtedly had something to do with growing disenchantment over the war in Iraq. But it's also possible that, at a time when more and more Americans are vulnerable to the dislocations of an increasingly volatile economy, the right's pro-family, antigovernment rhetoric has worn thin. The paradox of championing stability and traditional values, on the one hand, and unfettered capitalism, on the other, is apparently no longer something only liberals find odd. In a cover story in National Review, Ramesh Ponnuru and Richard Lowry observed that on domestic issues "it is almost impossible to exaggerate the Democratic advantage" and warned that ignoring the economic anxieties of working-class voters who've been absorbed into the GOP could prove fatal. "We don't have to support 'universal coverage' on health care," they wrote. "But we ought to talk more about health care than about the budget." Douthat and Salam agree, citing a Pew survey conducted in 2005 that divided the electorate into nine discrete categories. Voters in several of the conservative groups expressed criticism of big business and support for more government involvement to address the economic risks facing families, even if this required paying higher taxes. On domestic issues, they conclude, the Republican Party "isn't just out of touch with the country as a whole; it's increasingly out of touch with its own base."


If these analysts are right, the GOP may be in far greater trouble than even they fear, because the solution they recommend--serious measures to address the insecurity facing the working class--is unlikely to come from a party increasingly wedded to the interests of the ultra-privileged. At one point in Grand New Party, Douthat and Salam propose wage subsidies for low-income workers. It's a nice idea but not one likely to be greeted with great enthusiasm in a party that has consistently blocked efforts to raise the minimum wage while carving out tax loopholes for hedge fund managers. The same goes for broadening access to affordable healthcare, which in any serious plan would require vastly expanding the role of government, long a no-no on the right.


There is, in fact, a growing chorus of conservative critics who attribute the Bush Administration's failures not to its reckless tax cuts but to its insufficient fealty to the tenets of free-market orthodoxy. According to this camp, Bush's domestic agenda would have succeeded but for out-of-control domestic spending and the lack of zeal displayed in the drive to privatize Social Security. It's not hard to imagine how this wing of the right will respond to a major healthcare initiative in the years to come--by launching a campaign to sabotage it, as happened in 1993 when the Clinton Administration introduced such a plan.


If the drive to "slay the beast" of the federal government has begun to give even some conservatives pause, so too has the messianic foreign policy Bush and his advisers have so relentlessly pursued since 9/11. The reason, of course, is Iraq, which even the war's most avid supporters concede has done the Republican Party potentially irreparable harm. "Iraq is the great wreck and failure of this presidency, the great enduring shadow on our party," writes David Frum in Comeback, words it undoubtedly pained him to pen and that some of his comrades will surely see as coming too late. Frum is the neoconservative widely credited with having coined the phrase "axis of evil" (he actually called it the "axis of hatred"). In 2003 he wrote a National Review article titled "Unpatriotic Conservatives" in which he declared that paleoconservatives who did not support the war "have turned their backs on their country. Now we turn our backs on them." And so it is all the more striking to hear Frum announce that conservatives must "turn a new page" in foreign policy. What he means is that they should not feel ashamed to join the diplomacy-adoring appeasers on the left: "We should make clear that we as Republicans and conservatives are ready to go the extra mile on negotiation. Direct talks with Iran? Why not?"


The billions of dollars wasted and thousands of lives ruined by Bush's war may eventually recede from public consciousness; they have already faded from the headlines. But the damage to the right (to say nothing of the damage to the country) may prove lasting all the same, because the "war on terror" was not a cause embraced solely by the band of neoconservatives who brought us the war in Iraq. It was the template for a grand moral struggle that, like the fifty-year battle against the Soviet Union, was supposed to infuse conservatism with a sense of purpose and clarity not witnessed since Reagan rallied the faithful against communism.


Several years ago, Joseph Bottum, an editor at First Things, wrote "The New Fusionism," an essay in which he explained why Bush's foreign policy had appealed to everyone from social conservatives obsessed with the evils of abortion to neocons preoccupied with the evils of the Taliban (who, on the matter of women's rights, would find much to admire in a journal like First Things). What brought them all together was a shared insistence that "there are truths about human life and dignity that must not be compromised."


Now that this impulse has led to disaster, many conservatives are having second thoughts. As the one in six Republicans who cast a vote for Ron Paul in the Pennsylvania primary attest, the streak of isolationism that has long existed on the right appears to be undergoing a resurgence. The skepticism of conservative realists who viewed the war in Iraq with wariness from the start has grown more vocal and pronounced. The raw fear that once persuaded large numbers of soccer moms, professionals and young people to vote for Bush has given way to widespread disgust at a party that has squandered the nation's moral credibility while ignoring equally pressing problems that future generations will have to deal with--the impending meltdown of the planet, for example. A recent poll shows that Democrats hold an eleven-point advantage over Republicans on the question of which party will do a better job on foreign policy, and a staggering 33 percent edge when it comes to restoring America's respect in the world. In the 2006 Congressional election, 18-to-29-year-olds--voters whose political consciousness was forged between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq--backed Democratic Congressional candidates by a margin of 60 to 38 percent. It is the exact opposite of the trend that took place during the Reagan era, and for conservatives it is a deeply worrisome sign: once formed, the political allegiances of such voters tend to last.


Judgments about the future of American politics often turn out to be wrong, especially when the subject is the fate of conservatism. Defenders of traditional cultural values were supposed to disappear after the 1925 Scopes "monkey" trial. A quarter-century later, Lionel Trilling described liberalism as "not only the dominant but even the sole intellectual tradition" in the United States, a view many postwar intellectuals shared, dismissing the American right as a fringe movement of xenophobic cranks enamored with the likes of Barry Goldwater, whose trouncing in the 1964 election appeared to confirm the marginality of conservative ideas. As it turns out, Goldwater's landslide defeat marked a key moment in modern conservatism's rebirth, ushering in an era of Republican dominance in the formerly Democratic South and fracturing the New Deal coalition that until then had seemed impregnable.


Four decades later, another Arizona Senator, John McCain, clearly senses that the movement Goldwater helped to inspire is in need of a makeover, at least of its image. McCain's carefully choreographed visits to places like Youngstown, Ohio; Inez, Kentucky; and the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans on his recent "It's Time for Action" tour were designed to signal that less privileged Americans will not be invisible to him, as they were to Bush. Then again, voters have witnessed this before--Bush ran as a "compassionate conservative" in 2000. While McCain promises to be different, he has also suggested the government should do little to assist families engulfed by the subprime mortgage crisis. He has tried to have it both ways on foreign policy as well, assembling a team of advisers drawn equally from the realist and neoconservative camps. McCain has criticized the Bush Administration's unilateralism while slamming those who want to "cut and run" from Iraq and indicating his openness to trying regime change in neighboring Iran.


More than ever before, McCain must hope his reputation as a maverick will lead voters to forget he's actually a conservative Republican. He will undoubtedly try to overcome the baggage his party carries by framing his campaign less around issues than character: the plainspoken war hero running against an out-of-touch liberal elitist. Should his opponent be Barack Obama, we will surely be hearing plenty more about flag pins and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The strategy might succeed, but it also risks reinforcing the impression that while one party is promising change, the other is reaching into its familiar bag of tricks to disguise the fact that it is offering more of the same. "The Republican brand has been so badly damaged that if Republicans try to run an anti-Obama, anti-Reverend Wright, or (if Senator Clinton wins), anti-Clinton campaign, they are simply going to fail," argued Gingrich in his recent article in Human Events.


It's a bit early to say whether Gingrich will be proven right, or for that matter whether the Age of Bush has brought an era to a definitive close. But at the least, it has shattered an illusion, leaving the right in need not merely of an image makeover but of structural repair, something McCain almost surely won't give it, and thus giving progressives an opportunity they have not had in a long time. As historian Rick Perlstein puts it, "Conservatives have always been able to say, 'just wait until we get control of the government--then you'll see the wonderful things we can do.' Well, the dog finally caught the car it was chasing, and most of the country thinks the result has been nothing but ruin."

Bach
05-16-2008, 02:46 PM
The problem with the Republican Party the last 20 years is that it hasn't been conservative enough. McCain is practically a Democrat. GWB is rather moderate, as was his father.

zrinkill
05-16-2008, 02:48 PM
The problem with the Republican Party the last 20 years is that it hasn't been conservative enough. McCain is practically a Democrat. GWB is rather moderate, as was his father.

Wow ...... what just happened??????

I agree with Bach?????

Bach is a conservative????

vta
05-16-2008, 02:59 PM
Can I get the abridged version?
I'm a little strapped for time right now.

Dallas
05-16-2008, 03:02 PM
Wow ...... what just happened??????

I agree with Bach?????

Bach is a conservative????


He does indeed lean pretty conservative.

When he is not bull-dogging Jerry Jones. :eek:

PosterChild
05-16-2008, 03:09 PM
Can I get the abridged version?
I'm a little strapped for time right now.

The GOP suicide koolaid line forms at the south exit of the convention floor at the conclusion of business on Sept 4th. Dress is business casual. *Attendance is mandatory.* The party is so over.

trickblue
05-16-2008, 03:18 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/images/playboy/7802lp.jpg

The party is over?

iceberg
05-16-2008, 03:22 PM
Can I get the abridged version?
I'm a little strapped for time right now.

we suck.

ScipioCowboy
05-16-2008, 03:26 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/images/playboy/7802lp.jpg

The party is over?

Or maybe this party is over....

http://www.foroswebgratis.com/fotos/2/1/0/0/7/136041mace%20windu.jpg

trickblue
05-16-2008, 03:30 PM
Or maybe this party is over....

http://www.foroswebgratis.com/fotos/2/1/0/0/7/136041mace%20windu.jpg

This party DEFINITELY is over...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_SfVjwlOa_EU/RnWWhNEdeCI/AAAAAAAAAIY/0BOJGhqAaAQ/s400/tweak.jpg

zrinkill
05-16-2008, 03:31 PM
The party is so over.

Same song different verse.

Last time I heard it was in 2004.

Sasquatch
05-16-2008, 03:32 PM
Can I get the abridged version?
I'm a little strapped for time right now.

Don't worry. No one else has read it either.

Yeagermeister
05-16-2008, 03:34 PM
The party is over? Already? Dang it I just got here. :(

trickblue
05-16-2008, 03:44 PM
The party is over? Already? Dang it I just got here. :(

That's why it ended...

Yeagermeister
05-16-2008, 03:49 PM
That's why it ended...

*sigh* Some things never change

vta
05-16-2008, 03:50 PM
The GOP suicide koolaid line forms at the south exit of the convention floor at the conclusion of business on Sept 4th. Dress is business casual. *Attendance is mandatory.* The party is so over.

we suck.

Don't worry. No one else has read it either.

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Sure I have time to crack wise, but ask me to read something relevant to U.S. politics... Apathetical ******* that I am.

It's a lazy Friday.

AtlCB
05-16-2008, 04:14 PM
The person writing the article is obviously a liberal and completely misses the boat on why voters are upset with the Republican party. I remember the Republican party used to stand for:

1. Balanced budget
2. A very strong military that would only be used when absolutely necessary
3. Economic privacy
4. Limited social spending
5. Elimination of the Dept. of Education
6. Term limits
7. Government accountability
8. Reduction of waste, fraud, and abuse by the federal government

This list contains many of the promises in the Republican's Contract with America in the 90's. Most of these promises have been abondoned by the current republicans and have been picked up by some democrats. Let's look at these:

1. Balanced Budget - Will we ever have a balanced budget (raiding the social security trust fund does not count as a balanced budget)? The CwA republicans tried to pass the Balanced Budget Amendment in the 90's but failed by one vote. Does anyone else find it ironic that the democrats who killed the Balanced Budget Amendment are now talking about the importance of a balanced budget. Both parties talk a good game, but neither appear ready to make the sacrifices necessary to get this done. The republicans seemed to have completely abandoned this principle with large tax cuts and large increases in government spending.

2. A very strong military that would only be used when absolutely necessary - Our military continues to weaken while we remain in Afghanistan and Iraq. The ineptitude of the Bush administration and our substandard intelligence services not only caused us to enter into an unnecessary war (Iraq), but also remain much longer than we needed to be.

3. Economic privacy - While republicans talked about limiting the power of the IRS and eventually eliminating it in the 90's, their fear of terrorism has increased the power of the IRS and other organizations to pry into our activities.

4. Limited social spending - When did republicans become such big spenders? "Compassionate conservative" appears to be another name for spend like a socialist.

5. Elimination of the Dept. of Education - Bush not only makes no plans for the elimination of this bloaded, inefficient, idiotic organization, he expands its powers with his No Child Left Behind crap. This law hasn't improved education - it has made it worse. Instead of teaching and reviewing, teachers just train their students to pass the next government test. The students forget the material and re-learn it three months later when it will be on a future government mandated exam.

6. Term limits - The republicans tried and failed to get term limits passed in the 90's (I find it somewhat hypocritical that Dems opposed in the 90's now support these limits). The CwA republicans who kept their promises left the House after three terms. All you had left were the jerks who believed their power was more important than the ideals that got them elected. :mad: The party seems to have completely abandoned the term limits fight.

7. Government accountability - Anyone remember how the republicans brought up the issue of democrats having everyone secretly vote by placing signatures in a book on the house floor, so that politicians could say they supported something while voting against it? Anyone remember the House banking scandal and other democratic party scandals and how this would be cleaned up. It seems as though the republicans are the one's getting caught doing questionable things. The party that always stood on morality as a key issue needs to clean house.

8. Reduction of waste, fraud, and abuse by the federal government - Has the party done anything at all to address this issue????? I thought that a republican president and congress would certainly have addressed this issue, but these politicians are more concerned with rewarding supporters than putting the right people in charge of some of these departments. Most of the goverment departments still cannot even balance their boods. Ironically, the goverment would shut down a corporation if the same problem occurred with their books.

Sasquatch
05-16-2008, 04:45 PM
The person writing the article is obviously a liberal and completely misses the boat on why voters are upset with the Republican party. I remember the Republican party used to stand for:

1. Balanced budget
2. A very strong military that would only be used when absolutely necessary
3. Economic privacy
4. Limited social spending
5. Elimination of the Dept. of Education
6. Term limits
7. Government accountability
8. Reduction of waste, fraud, and abuse by the federal government

This list contains many of the promises in the Republican's Contract with America in the 90's. Most of these promises have been abondoned by the current republicans and have been picked up by some democrats. Let's look at these:

1. Balanced Budget - Will we ever have a balanced budget (raiding the social security trust fund does not count as a balanced budget)? The CwA republicans tried to pass the Balanced Budget Amendment in the 90's but failed by one vote. Does anyone else find it ironic that the democrats who killed the Balanced Budget Amendment are now talking about the importance of a balanced budget. Both parties talk a good game, but neither appear ready to make the sacrifices necessary to get this done. The republicans seemed to have completely abandoned this principle with large tax cuts and large increases in government spending.

2. A very strong military that would only be used when absolutely necessary - Our military continues to weaken while we remain in Afghanistan and Iraq. The ineptitude of the Bush administration and our substandard intelligence services not only caused us to enter into an unnecessary war (Iraq), but also remain much longer than we needed to be.

3. Economic privacy - While republicans talked about limiting the power of the IRS and eventually eliminating it in the 90's, their fear of terrorism has increased the power of the IRS and other organizations to pry into our activities.

4. Limited social spending - When did republicans become such big spenders? "Compassionate conservative" appears to be another name for spend like a socialist.

5. Elimination of the Dept. of Education - Bush not only makes no plans for the elimination of this bloaded, inefficient, idiotic organization, he expands its powers with his No Child Left Behind crap. This law hasn't improved education - it has made it worse. Instead of teaching and reviewing, teachers just train their students to pass the next government test. The students forget the material and re-learn it three months later when it will be on a future government mandated exam.

6. Term limits - The republicans tried and failed to get term limits passed in the 90's (I find it somewhat hypocritical that Dems opposed in the 90's now support these limits). The CwA republicans who kept their promises left the House after three terms. All you had left were the jerks who believed their power was more important than the ideals that got them elected. :mad: The party seems to have completely abandoned the term limits fight.

7. Government accountability - Anyone remember how the republicans brought up the issue of democrats having everyone secretly vote by placing signatures in a book on the house floor, so that politicians could say they supported something while voting against it? Anyone remember the House banking scandal and other democratic party scandals and how this would be cleaned up. It seems as though the republicans are the one's getting caught doing questionable things. The party that always stood on morality as a key issue needs to clean house.

8. Reduction of waste, fraud, and abuse by the federal government - Has the party done anything at all to address this issue????? I thought that a republican president and congress would certainly have addressed this issue, but these politicians are more concerned with rewarding supporters than putting the right people in charge of some of these departments. Most of the goverment departments still cannot even balance their boods. Ironically, the goverment would shut down a corporation if the same problem occurred with their books.

Not to quibble as you make good points but doesn't the author address some of these issues:

"when Republicans were finally given the opportunity to free the citizenry from the chains of the Leviathan state, the result was crony capitalism, fiscal recklessness"

"the idea that Republicans could shrink the bloated government down to size without compromising the national interest--indeed, while enhancing freedom--has proved anything but easy to rebut. Ronald Reagan won landslide victories by promising to get big government off ordinary Americans' backs."

"Voters in several of the conservative groups expressed criticism of big business and support for more government involvement to address the economic risks facing families, even if this required paying higher taxes. On domestic issues, they conclude, the Republican Party "isn't just out of touch with the country as a whole; it's increasingly out of touch with its own base."

"a growing chorus of conservative critics who attribute the Bush Administration's failures not to its reckless tax cuts but to its insufficient fealty to the tenets of free-market orthodoxy. According to this camp, Bush's domestic agenda would have succeeded but for out-of-control domestic spending and the lack of zeal displayed in the drive to privatize Social Security."

"If the drive to "slay the beast" of the federal government has begun to give even some conservatives pause, so too has the messianic foreign policy Bush and his advisers have so relentlessly pursued since 9/11."

"As the one in six Republicans who cast a vote for Ron Paul in the Pennsylvania primary attest, the streak of isolationism that has long existed on the right appears to be undergoing a resurgence. The skepticism of conservative realists who viewed the war in Iraq with wariness from the start has grown more vocal and pronounced."

BrAinPaiNt
05-16-2008, 05:32 PM
Clinton (Bill) and W ruined the Republican party.

Before you get your knickers in a twist, let me explain.

The Clinton admin was so full of scandal and problems that the Republicans took over the hill with a pledge of reform and responsibility. To say no more of this mess with the other dems.

And instead they went on a witch hunt and later became the very thing they fought against to get elected. They turned in to fat bloated ticks caring too much about themselves, their party (in their minds)and their wallets.

They turned the once proud party into a disgrace IMO.

Not only did they do that but they also had a Republican (and I use that loosely) President win back to back elections and nary a veto every was cast by him. So he basically let anything go while they were in power. I don't even think he cast on veto until after the dems regained control.

What's even worse is he spent as much money, if not more, than any far left liberal would ever spend, yet did not raise taxes to have those spending fits covered.

We are now so far in debt that we can not even do much with China because we are in debt to them. Kind of hard to threaten them for some things, when they have so much power due to us owing them so much.

So with all of this unchecked power, with all of this spending, with bigger government, with the President having exercised power and ignored most of the checks and balances put into place.

The Republican party has became a mockery of itself, but instead looks more like the democratic party they are so fond of railing against.

I think this type of thing will always happen when one party gets too much power and has no obstacles in it's way to do what they want.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think they have already lost a great deal in the last election that seen the dems grab power. I think they have seen three recent replacement losses that staggered them. And I think they will lose even more chairs in the near future.

We are seeing just what happened to the dems under Clinton, but now the roles are reversed.

I hate going through all of that but I will admit we need changes in the government. We don't need some of these old politicians growing fat on the land while pretending to serve us. They only serve themselves.

Now in a few years times the republicans will get hungry again and gain back the seats. They will come to remember the reasons they gained control before and decide they need that hunger and dedication.

The only hope I have is to make sure when the dems when some more upcoming seats that they do not also win the Presidency and we have to go through another period of time with Clinton in unchecked power and than bush in unchecked power.

Bach
05-16-2008, 06:54 PM
Wow ...... what just happened??????

I agree with Bach?????

Bach is a conservative????

What's funny is I was just as blown away to find out you weren't a liberal.

BrAinPaiNt
05-16-2008, 06:55 PM
What's funny is I was just as blown away to find out you weren't a liberal.

He really is, don't trust him, he is trying to lull you into a false sense of security, to gain your trust and friendship...only to pinch you on the backside and whisper sweet nothings in your ear.:eek: :p: ;)

Bach
05-16-2008, 06:57 PM
He really is, don't trust him, he is trying to lull you into a false sense of security, to gain your trust and friendship...only to pinch you on the backside and whisper sweet nothings in your ear.:eek: :p: ;)

So you're saying he's one of those California liberals?

Heisenberg
05-16-2008, 06:58 PM
So you're saying he's one of those California liberals?

Fruits and nuts.

BrAinPaiNt
05-16-2008, 07:00 PM
So you're saying he's one of those California liberals?

Ask him to show you his Blond wig picture...looks like a member of the 80's russian girls olympics team. :laugh1:

Bach
05-16-2008, 07:03 PM
Fruits and nuts.

Whew.

Ask him to show you his Blond wig picture...looks like a member of the 80's russian girls olympics team. :laugh1:

Uh. I think I'll pass :eek:

BrAinPaiNt
05-16-2008, 07:07 PM
Whew.



Uh. I think I'll pass :eek:

To be fair to him...he was not dressing up as a girl. He was going to a costume party as that wrestler that used to be the main guy in the 80's wrestling group the Fabulous Freebirds. The guys name escapes me right now.

But it was pretty funny seeing him with that blonde wig on. Like I said it looked like some roided up russian female athlete.:laugh2:

Bach
05-16-2008, 07:25 PM
To be fair to him...he was not dressing up as a girl. He was going to a costume party as that wrestler that used to be the main guy in the 80's wrestling group the Fabulous Freebirds. The guys name escapes me right now.

But it was pretty funny seeing him with that blonde wig on. Like I said it looked like some roided up russian female athlete.:laugh2:

OK. Now I wanna see the pic.

burmafrd
05-16-2008, 10:21 PM
Its not the conservative philosophy that is wrong. Its that we do not have real Conservatives in office and running things. Newt and company were conservatives when they took over in 95. Not many of them around any more.
The liberal hack that wrote that article missed the point entirely as most libs are blind to hard choices and discipline. That is what conservatives stood for- but sadly when Hastert replaced Newt and (the doctor that I cannot remember the name of right now) took over the senate it started going downhill fast. Then Bush came in and pretty much abandoned way too many conservative tenents.

quincyyyyy
05-16-2008, 10:45 PM
Its not the conservative philosophy that is wrong. Its that we do not have real Conservatives in office and running things. Newt and company were conservatives when they took over in 95. Not many of them around any more.

84 ethics violations were filed against your beloved Newt, and he was subsequently forced out of office in disgrace. If that is what you consider a "real conservative" then I doubt most people would vote for one.

theogt
05-16-2008, 10:53 PM
If Democrats control both houses of Congress and the White House, and they raise taxes, the Republican party will be back stronger than ever in the following election.

quincyyyyy
05-16-2008, 10:57 PM
If Democrats control both houses of Congress and the White House, and they raise taxes, the Republican party will be back stronger than ever in the following election.

You wish. Its going to be awhile before the Repukes can take back control of congress from us commies and amoral atheists.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sasquatch
05-16-2008, 11:33 PM
Then Bush came in and pretty much abandoned way too many conservative tenents.

That's essentially what the hack liberal author said among other things.

Read first, then post.

iceberg
05-16-2008, 11:35 PM
That's essentially what the hack liberal author said among other things.

Read first, then post.

as soon as i have 6 uninterrupted hours, i'll read a liberal article.

SuspectCorner
05-17-2008, 12:03 AM
George Bush is the absolute best thing that could have happened to the Democratic Party. Unfortunately, that's about the only positive comment I can make about the man and his policies... and I used to be a Republican. But there is no way I'm risking more of the same old stupidity by voting for John McCain.

I'd rather try some new stupidity.

kristie
05-17-2008, 12:44 AM
George Bush is the absolute best thing that could have happened to the Democratic Party. Unfortunately, that's about the only positive comment I can make about the man and his policies... and I used to be a Republican. But there is no way I'm risking more of the same old stupidity by voting for John McCain.

I'd rather try some new stupidity.

like who?

burmafrd
05-17-2008, 04:40 AM
Sasqie, I know its hard for you to think, but try. But then again taking one sentence out of a post and using that to make your point is right out of the MOVEON.ORG guys playbook. You probably actually consider that site more reliable then Wikipedia.

Jordan55
05-17-2008, 11:17 AM
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon051508.gif

Bach
05-17-2008, 11:36 AM
George Bush is the absolute best thing that could have happened to the Democratic Party. Unfortunately, that's about the only positive comment I can make about the man and his policies... and I used to be a Republican. But there is no way I'm risking more of the same old stupidity by voting for John McCain.

I'd rather try some new stupidity.

Wow. Now there's some logic. :laugh2:

Maikeru-sama
05-17-2008, 11:40 AM
as soon as i have 6 uninterrupted hours, i'll read a liberal article.

Way to keep an open mind.

junk
05-18-2008, 02:16 PM
If Democrats control both houses of Congress and the White House, and they raise taxes, the Republican party will be back stronger than ever in the following election.

Unfortunately, I think whoever ends up in office is going to have to raise taxes. I just don't see how the deficit spending can continue and the armed forces are going to need an influx of cash to continue to support Iraq and Afghanistan as well as to refit everything that has been worn out in those wars.

kristie
05-18-2008, 03:58 PM
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon051508.gif

:laugh2:

iceberg
05-18-2008, 06:04 PM
Way to keep an open mind.

sorry man. i know it's a stereotype and i know i hate those, but in general, i've yet to see a liberal tirade that wasn't a war and peace epic. in the end i just don't care about almost anyone's opinion to have to sort through all the "facts" they'll pass off. conservative or liberal.

some things just scream agenda and i just tend to not read those.