Baby Miraculously Survives Abortion, Expected to Live 'Normal' Life

[zrinkill]

A mother who decided to abort her son because he may have inherited a life-threatening kidney condition is overjoyed that he survived the procedure.

Jodie Percival of Nottinghamshire, England, said she and her fiancee made the decision to abort baby Finley when she was eight weeks pregnant.


Percival's first son Thane died of multicystic dysplastic kidneys — which causes cysts to grow on the kidneys of an unborn baby — and her second child Lewis was born with serious kidney damage and currently has just one kidney, the Daily Mail reported.

"I was on the (birth control pill) when I became pregnant," Percival, 25, said. "Deciding to terminate at eight weeks was just utterly horrible but I couldn't cope with the anguish of losing another baby."


A short time after the abortion, Percival felt a fluttering in her stomach. She went to the doctor for a scan and discovered she was 19 weeks pregnant.



"I couldn't believe it,' Percival said. "This was the baby I thought I'd terminated. At first I was angry that this was happening to us, that the procedure had failed. I wrote to the hospital, I couldn't believe that they had let me down like this.


"They wrote back and apologized and said it was very rare," she added.
Another scan a week later confirmed the baby also had kidney problems, but doctors told the couple the baby was likely to survive, so they decided he deserved another chance at life.


In November, Finley was born three weeks premature. He had minor kidney damage but is expected to lead a normal life.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,363434,00.html

[zrinkill]

Here is a pic .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1024297/Mothers-anger-turns-delight-baby-survives-abortion.html

[Danny White]

Good thing the baby wasn't born in Illinois when Obama was a state senator there... he'd have been legally left to die in a dirty linen closet.

[gbrittain]

Good thing the baby wasn't born in Illinois when Obama was a state senator there... he'd have been legally left to die in a dirty linen closet.

I still can't believe that killing a baby is accepted because it is a "choice" and it is "legal".

That is reason #1 I could never vote for a candidate Republican or Democrat who supports killing babies.

[Cajuncowboy]

Ahhhh, look! She's holding a choice.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/04/article-1024297-017CFBCF00000578-856_468x690.jpg

The nerve of people who would kill this baby. More proof that abortion is barbaric to babies and simply evil.

[Cajuncowboy]

I think I will bump this thread until one of the liberals in here try to advocate the killing of this baby.

Funny how none of them show up when a face is put to the crime.

[iceberg]

I think I will bump this thread until one of the liberals in here try to advocate the killing of this baby.

Funny how none of them show up when a face is put to the crime.

um cajun, you do realize the lady holding the baby tried to abort it for medical reasons, right?

how dare her? is that what you're saying?

[Danny White]

um cajun, you do realize the lady holding the baby tried to abort it for medical reasons, right?

how dare her? is that what you're saying?

Pretty much, I think.

Basically, she was entirely within the law to abort the baby, and had she done so, the little guy would be dead now... so, what does that say about the law?

[zrinkill]

um cajun, you do realize the lady holding the baby tried to abort it for medical reasons, right?

how dare her? is that what you're saying?

The only thing that bothers me about that is that she decided to abort it because it could have medical problems ....

Turns out the baby will be fine ..... with only minor kidney damage.

But then again I am against abortions so I am admittedly biased.

[iceberg]

Pretty much, I think.

Basically, she was entirely within the law to abort the baby, and had she done so, the little guy would be dead now... so, what does that say about the law?

nothing. individual examples like this won't change anyones mind that i know of.

[Cajuncowboy]

um cajun, you do realize the lady holding the baby tried to abort it for medical reasons, right?

how dare her? is that what you're saying?

Um, for possible medical reasons. And medical reason not related to herself but to the baby.

In other words, she would have preferred to kill the baby than to give it a chance for life, which as proven here, he has a great shot at now as you mentioned. EDIT: As Zrin said.

This is more proof that they are babies and not "choices". You can't hold a choice.

[Danny White]

nothing. individual examples like this won't change anyones mind that i know of.

There are millions of examples every year that we'll never know about. :(

[iceberg]

Um, for possible medical reasons. And medical reason not related to herself but to the baby.

In other words, she would have preferred to kill the baby than to give it a chance for life, which as proven here, he has a great shot at now as you mentioned. EDIT: As Zrin said.

This is more proof that they are babies and not "choices". You can't hold a choice.

There are millions of examples every year that we'll never know about. :(

hey - i was born and raised roman catholic. i'm against it and would never go to it. but i dont think my own passion around the topic will ever change someone who's pro-choice's mind.

[zrinkill]

My biggest problem with this is why did she not get her tubes tied ...... if she was really scared that any baby she might have would have medical problems .... why not completely fix the problem?

[Danny White]

hey - i was born and raised roman catholic. i'm against it and would never go to it. but i dont think my own passion around the topic will ever change someone who's pro-choice's mind.

Maybe you're right. But then again, it may make others think twice before making a decision they may regret the rest of their lives.

No one's attacking you, by the way. At least I'm not.

[Cajuncowboy]

hey - i was born and raised roman catholic. i'm against it and would never go to it. but i dont think my own passion around the topic will ever change someone who's pro-choice's mind.

I'm not interested much in changing the minds of those whose minds won't be changed. I more interested in making it illegal to kill the baby.

[Cajuncowboy]

hey - i was born and raised roman catholic. i'm against it and would never go to it. but i dont think my own passion around the topic will ever change someone who's pro-choice's mind.

Not attacking you. Just making the point regarding the baby.

[Vintage]

I think I will bump this thread until one of the liberals in here try to advocate the killing of this baby.

Funny how none of them show up when a face is put to the crime.

Not a liberal, but I am pro-choice.

[iceberg]

Not attacking you. Just making the point regarding the baby.

heh, not taken as such, cc. i know how much passion you put behind what you believe in and i respect that, agree or not. : )

[iceberg]

Maybe you're right. But then again, it may make others think twice before making a decision they may regret the rest of their lives.

No one's attacking you, by the way. At least I'm not.

man - maybe i should coordinate an attack. : )

NO - YOU'RE WRONG MAN!!!!

we'll start there. : )

[Vintage]

My guess is most avoided this thread for the same reason I did (until now). There is no point.

No one is going to change their position on it, so why even bother debating it. Plus, it seems like we do this debate every month or so.

[Cajuncowboy]

Not a liberal, but I am pro-choice.

So tell me. Can you look at that baby in that picture and say that he would be better off dead?

Or look into those eyes and say it's still a choice?

If you can do that, then you have no soul. I'm sorry.

[Cajuncowboy]

My guess is most avoided this thread for the same reason I did (until now). There is no point.

No one is going to change their position on it, so why even bother debating it. Plus, it seems like we do this debate every month or so.

I think it's been avoided because somewhere inside, those who support the killing of babies like this, can't do it when a face is put on it.

[Doomsday101]

If someone asked my opinion on getting an abortion I would tell them don't do it but as far as the Government I think it should not be involved other than what is known as late term abortions and of course I don't think tax payer dollars should ever be used for abortions just like any other Elective procedures.

[zrinkill]

This picture is begging for a quote ..... I love how the baby looks shocked!


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/04/article-1024297-017CFBCF00000578-856_468x690.jpg

My Mom Tried To Do WHAT???????


:laugh2:

[Vintage]

I think it's been avoided because somewhere inside, those who support the killing of babies like this, can't do it when a face is put on it.

Maybe. Maybe not.

[gbrittain]

An honest abortion debate would be about when life begins and not whether it is a choice or not.

Pro-Choice is as about a lame of a defense for something I have ever seen.

It is an inexcusable defense.

[ConcordCowboy]

I'm Pro-Choice picture or no picture.

I have no soul.

There we can get that out of the way.

[AtlCB]

I'm Pro-Choice picture or no picture.

I have no soul.

There we can get that out of the way.
I must have no soul either. I just don't believe the government has the right to tell an adult woman what she has to do with her body.

[Cajuncowboy]

I must have no soul either. I just don't believe the government has the right to tell an adult woman what she has to do with her body.

The government has every right to tell her what she CAN'T do with the babies though. And this is a perfect example of that.

[Cajuncowboy]

I'm Pro-Choice picture or no picture.

I have no soul.

There we can get that out of the way.

Yep, got that out of the way. Because if you can say that baby should be aborted then you are right. You have none.

[theebs]

Pretty bizzare. I didnt know that was possible.


That must have been a terrible position to be in with that happening to her other children.

[Vintage]

I must have no soul either. I just don't believe the government has the right to tell an adult woman what she has to do with her body.

My position on this is like a hybrid between yours and Dooms.

I would never recommend abortion and if I got someone pregnant, I would do all I could to talk them out of abortion. That being said, I don't want the gov't to have the power to tell a woman "no". If her life is endangered, I think its "acceptable enough" to justify an abortion. I hate abortion being used for other reasons (like some who do use it as birth control), but if you allow abortion you can't just restrict it to life-endangering situations... how would you enforce it?

And I am absolutely opposed to gov't funding of abortion...

[AtlCB]

The government has every right to tell her what she CAN'T do with the babies though. And this is a perfect example of that.The problem with this argument is that no one actually knows when an embryo actually becomes a baby. I defer that judgement to the woman and her own conscience.

[Vintage]

The problem with this argument is that no one actually knows when an embryo actually becomes a baby. I defer that judgement to the woman and her own conscience.


Ditto.

[AtlCB]

My position on this is like a hybrid between yours and Dooms.

I would never recommend abortion and if I got someone pregnant, I would do all I could to talk them out of abortion. That being said, I don't want the gov't to have the power to tell a woman "no". If her life is endangered, I think its "acceptable enough" to justify an abortion. I hate abortion being used for other reasons (like some who do use it as birth control), but if you allow abortion you can't just restrict it to life-endangering situations... how would you enforce it?

And I am absolutely opposed to gov't funding of abortion...
I definitely agree that the government should not fund abortion.

[Cajuncowboy]

My position on this is like a hybrid between yours and Dooms.

I would never recommend abortion and if I got someone pregnant, I would do all I could to talk them out of abortion. That being said, I don't want the gov't to have the power to tell a woman "no". If her life is endangered, I think its "acceptable enough" to justify an abortion. I hate abortion being used for other reasons (like some who do use it as birth control), but if you allow abortion you can't just restrict it to life-endangering situations... how would you enforce it?

And I am absolutely opposed to gov't funding of abortion...

Cars are legal but you can't drive over the speed limit.

Guns are legal (for now) but you can't kill someone with one.

Some drugs are legal but if abused they are illegal.

You mean you can't restrict abortion. You just have to have a free for all, whatever you want kind of thing? I don't buy that for one minute.

[Cajuncowboy]

The problem with this argument is that no one actually knows when an embryo actually becomes a baby. I defer that judgement to the woman and her own conscience.

Well, here is what we know for sure. That the "embryo" will become a living breathing baby left on it's own and not killed.

And if "No one actually knows" then what makes anyone think that the woman knows?

It doesn't help the baby.

Obviously, this baby survived and was being aborted. So what's that say about your argument?

[Cajuncowboy]

I definitely agree that the government should not fund abortion.

On this we fully agree.

[Vintage]

Cars are legal but you can't drive over the speed limit.

Guns are legal (for now) but you can't kill someone with one.

Some drugs are legal but if abused they are illegal.

You mean you can't restrict abortion. You just have to have a free for all, whatever you want kind of thing? I don't buy that for one minute.

Then don't buy it. I don't care. I am not debating this issue. I just stated my opinion.

[Cajuncowboy]

Then don't buy it. I don't care. I am not debating this issue. I just stated my opinion.

wait a minute. you state your opinion in a thread, but you are not debating it.

OK.

But I will point out that your opinion based on what you said makes no sense. IF that is what you based it on.

[gbrittain]

Ditto.

We don't know if it is a baby so it is ok to kill it?

Shouldn't we try to find out?

I think it is hilarious that science can allegedly tell us what the temperature was 180 billion years ago and allegedly tell us when life began billions of years ago, but can not tell us when life begins in the womb?

You have to conceed that at some point (we all probably disagree on that 'some point') killing a baby is just that...killing a baby and can in no way be justified.

[iceberg]

The problem with this argument is that no one actually knows when an embryo actually becomes a baby. I defer that judgement to the woman and her own conscience.

Ditto.

while i'm against it for me, i have to say i agree with this. i just can't pur my own morality on others like it's a one size *should* fit all scenario.

[Vintage]

wait a minute. you state your opinion in a thread, but you are not debating it.

OK.

But I will point out that your opinion based on what you said makes no sense. IF that is what you based it on.

I just stated it to go on record with it, in case anyone was interested beyond my original post of me being pro-choice.

I merely explained it further. Beyond that, I see no reason to further back my beliefs nor attack anyone else's view.

As for the last part of your post, I clearly did not explain it well enough.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

My biggest problem with this is why did she not get her tubes tied ...... if she was really scared that any baby she might have would have medical problems .... why not completely fix the problem?

well she claims she was on birth control but I don't believe her. The pill is basically 99.9% effective. IF she got pregs on the pill, she is either really unluckly or really dumb and missed days.

I don't know what Cajun is trying to prove. The mom made a choice. Had the baby been born deformed as a result of the botched abortion, she would be suing the doctor in a wrongful life law suit.

All I know is that since I am not willing to take care of someone else's child if they are either unable or unwilling to do so, I will not say that another person should be forced at law to have a child she does not want.

It is funny how so many of the radical anti choice types are men. Maybe it's because we still abandon most child care to women so in the end, we don't care as much.

As part of my legal practice, I act for the provincial government in child apprehension cases. I see cases with mothers with six children with six guys, she can't take care of any of them, they have special needs up the ying yang, no quality of life etc The saddest thing for many of them is that they were born.

My sister had an abortion and while she probably regrets not having a child now (and since she is 52, she won't ever have one) but at that point in her life, and as a result of the dude who knocked her up, a bad mistake for sure, the only sadder part would have been having to deal with that butthead for the rest of her life. She made the choice and it was the right one at the time.

[Vintage]

We don't know if it is a baby so it is ok to kill it?

Shouldn't we try to find out?

I think it is hilarious that science can allegedly tell us what the temperature was 180 billion years ago and allegedly tell us when life began billions of years ago, but can not tell us when life begins in the womb?

You have to conceed that at some point (we all probably disagree on that 'some point') killing a baby is just that...killing a baby and can in no way be justified.

I don't disagree with your last point. I do think there is a time when an embryo becomes a baby. And I have an opinion on when that does occur. But I have no clue if I am right.

[Cajuncowboy]

while i'm against it for me, i have to say i agree with this. i just can't pur my own morality on others like it's a one size *should* fit all scenario.

See this is where I really don't understand people. You say it's putting YOUR morality on people but if you really believe what you say, then you must believe that's it's killing. By those standards, then you also believe that killing should be illegal. Well if that's so, then Abortion should be as well.

Killing is killing, if it's a baby or a 20 year old. They are still just as dead.

If you don't want to put your morality on others then maybe we should just allow killing across the board.

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't disagree with your last point. I do think there is a time when an embryo becomes a baby. And I have an opinion on when that does occur. But I have no clue if I am right.

I'm sending you a pm.

[gbrittain]

I don't disagree with your last point. I do think there is a time when an embryo becomes a baby. And I have an opinion on when that does occur. But I have no clue if I am right.

I think most of do agree that killing is wrong.

If we are not sure if we are actually "killing" or not, should we not find out?

In life or death matters, should we not be very careful as opposed to whatever feels good do it?

[gbrittain]

well she claims she was on birth control but I don't believe her. The pill is basically 99.9% effective. IF she got pregs on the pill, she is either really unluckly or really dumb and missed days.

I don't know what Cajun is trying to prove. The mom made a choice. Had the baby been born deformed as a result of the botched abortion, she would be suing the doctor in a wrongful life law suit.

All I know is that since I am not willing to take care of someone else's child if they are either unable or unwilling to do so, I will not say that another person should be forced at law to have a child she does not want.

It is funny how so many of the radical anti choice types are men. Maybe it's because we still abandon most child care to women so in the end, we don't care as much.

As part of my legal practice, I act for the provincial government in child apprehension cases. I see cases with mothers with six children with six guys, she can't take care of any of them, they have special needs up the ying yang, no quality of life etc The saddest thing for many of them is that they were born.

My sister had an abortion and while she probably regrets not having a child now (and since she is 52, she won't ever have one) but at that point in her life, and as a result of the dude who knocked her up, a bad mistake for sure, the only sadder part would have been having to deal with that butthead for the rest of her life. She made the choice and it was the right one at the time.

The only thing that matters is it is either killing a baby or it is not.

That is the debate. The rest does not matter.

Surely you would admit killing a baby is wrong.

So when do you think a baby becomes something that can not just be dismembered because it does not fit into someone's plans?

That is the issue. When?

All the other stuff is just noise...

[zrinkill]

well she claims she was on birth control but I don't believe her. The pill is basically 99.9% effective. IF she got pregs on the pill, she is either really unluckly or really dumb and missed days.

I don't know what Cajun is trying to prove. The mom made a choice. Had the baby been born deformed as a result of the botched abortion, she would be suing the doctor in a wrongful life law suit.

All I know is that since I am not willing to take care of someone else's child if they are either unable or unwilling to do so, I will not say that another person should be forced at law to have a child she does not want.

It is funny how so many of the radical anti choice types are men. Maybe it's because we still abandon most child care to women so in the end, we don't care as much.

As part of my legal practice, I act for the provincial government in child apprehension cases. I see cases with mothers with six children with six guys, she can't take care of any of them, they have special needs up the ying yang, no quality of life etc The saddest thing for many of them is that they were born.

My sister had an abortion and while she probably regrets not having a child now (and since she is 52, she won't ever have one) but at that point in her life, and as a result of the dude who knocked her up, a bad mistake for sure, the only sadder part would have been having to deal with that butthead for the rest of her life. She made the choice and it was the right one at the time.


Wow .... that was actually a good post.

I disagree with the theory that its better to be dead than poor or have a poor quality of life ..... but this posts has non of the bitterness I usually associate with your posts.

My first wife had an affair while I was overseas .... when I got back and we separated she came over to my house drunk with our 2 year old child not in a car seat.

Needless to say she never had custody or was left unsupervised with him again .... I now have a 15 year old son who I raised alone till he was 11 and I remarried .... proudest day of my life is on the day my newest son was born (a year and 9 months ago) my oldest son told me and my new wife that he was happy he finally had a mother and that his little bro would never be without one.

My wife cried for an hour.

I only tell you this because when my first wife found out she was pregnant she almost had an abortion without telling me .... I talked her out of it and 2 years later ended up raising him basically on my own.

It was hard ..... and I have never regretted a minute of it.

[Maikeru-sama]

I'm Pro-Choice picture or no picture.

I have no soul.

There we can get that out of the way.

:hammer:

That makes two of us.

I would never have an abortion but it is not my job to tell others they cannot do it.

If you are religious, all you can do is warn them of the possible consequences of their actions and move on.

[iceberg]

See this is where I really don't understand people. You say it's putting YOUR morality on people but if you really believe what you say, then you must believe that's it's killing. By those standards, then you also believe that killing should be illegal. Well if that's so, then Abortion should be as well.

Killing is killing, if it's a baby or a 20 year old. They are still just as dead.

If you don't want to put your morality on others then maybe we should just allow killing across the board.

cajun - no disrespect here, but if you don't understand me or my line of thinking, how can you possibly know how i believe?

you're putting your morality on others and now you're putting your interpretation onto me.

again, if you don't understand me then how can you come to accurate conclusions on how i'd feel or think?

you can't. please stop.

[gbrittain]

:hammer:

That makes two of us.

I would never have an abortion but it is not my job to tell others they cannot do it.

If you are religious, all you can do is warn them of the possible consequences of their actions and move on.

What does being religious have to do with killing a baby?

Again, most people refuse to address the issue.

It is either killing or it is not. We would all agree that killing a baby is wrong.

It is just a matter of at what point is it killing versus cutting a toenail off your big toe. That is the debate.

[Maikeru-sama]

cajun - no disrespect here, but if you don't understand me or my line of thinking, how can you possibly how i believe?

you're putting your morality on others and now you're putting your interpretation onto me.

again, if you don't understand me then how can you come to accurate conclusions on how i'd feel or think?

you can't. please stop.

:hammer:

That is almost on par with:


I thought it was pretty self-explanatory.

I don't see how someone can proclaim to have so much faith, while having so little.


link (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110862&page=16&highlight=bone)

[Cajuncowboy]

cajun - no disrespect here, but if you don't understand me or my line of thinking, how can you possibly how i believe?

you're putting your morality on others and now you're putting your interpretation onto me.

again, if you don't understand me then how can you come to accurate conclusions on how i'd feel or think?

you can't. please stop.

You articulated it in your previous post. That's how I know.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Wow .... that was actually a good post.
.

I figured if I posted enough, you would like one of mine sooner or later :laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

well she claims she was on birth control but I don't believe her. The pill is basically 99.9% effective. IF she got pregs on the pill, she is either really unluckly or really dumb and missed days.

I don't know what Cajun is trying to prove. The mom made a choice. Had the baby been born deformed as a result of the botched abortion, she would be suing the doctor in a wrongful life law suit.

All I know is that since I am not willing to take care of someone else's child if they are either unable or unwilling to do so, I will not say that another person should be forced at law to have a child she does not want.

It is funny how so many of the radical anti choice types are men. Maybe it's because we still abandon most child care to women so in the end, we don't care as much.

As part of my legal practice, I act for the provincial government in child apprehension cases. I see cases with mothers with six children with six guys, she can't take care of any of them, they have special needs up the ying yang, no quality of life etc The saddest thing for many of them is that they were born.

My sister had an abortion and while she probably regrets not having a child now (and since she is 52, she won't ever have one) but at that point in her life, and as a result of the dude who knocked her up, a bad mistake for sure, the only sadder part would have been having to deal with that butthead for the rest of her life. She made the choice and it was the right one at the time.

I'm trying to prove these are babies. You do not have the right to tell someone they can kill one because it's "inconvenient" for them because they made a mistake.

That baby could grow up to find a cure for aids, or for cancer or bring world peace. But if you keep killing these babies we will never know.

It's narcissistic to think we can, as a society, make the decision on who may be born and who may not.

We are not communist China. (Though some would like that.)

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I'm trying to prove these are babies. You do not have the right to tell someone they can kill one because it's "inconvenient" for them because they made a mistake.

That baby could grow up to find a cure for aids, or for cancer or bring world peace. But if you keep killing these babies we will never know.

It's narcissistic to think we can, as a society, make the decision on who may be born and who may not.

We are not communist China. (Though some would like that.)

yeah and they could grow up to be Ted Bundy, Charles Manson or the leader in Iran. Are you saying you are glad they were not aborted?

[iceberg]

You articulated it in your previous post. That's how I know.

this?

Originally Posted by iceberg http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2108868#post2108868)
while i'm against it for me, i have to say i agree with this. i just can't pur my own morality on others like it's a one size *should* fit all scenario.

that hardly means i condone murder, cajun. you don't know why i feel the way i do or how i arrived at my choices within my own faith. you only seem to know it's not this so it must be that. so if that *is* how you understand things then no, you don't get me.

taking one sentence and drawing those conclusions bypasses of lot of "me" cajun. all i'm trying to say.

ya'll have fun w/this now. it's because of the IN YOUR FACE nature this can get i tend to avoid these convos. say how i feel, i must condone killing.

just don't get it.

[zrinkill]

yeah and they could grow up to be Ted Bundy, Charles Manson or the leader in Iran. Are you saying you are glad they were not aborted?

No I would not kill baby manson, bundy, hitler, Hussein, or Bin Ladin.

What turned these men into monsters happened later in their life ... as babies they were innocent.

[Vintage]

I'm trying to prove these are babies. You do not have the right to tell someone they can kill one because it's "inconvenient" for them because they made a mistake.

That baby could grow up to find a cure for aids, or for cancer or bring world peace. But if you keep killing these babies we will never know.

It's narcissistic to think we can, as a society, make the decision on who may be born and who may not.

We are not communist China. (Though some would like that.)

And here lies the problem....



















Can we really call China communist anymore? Economically speaking, they've undergone a transition to more market-based economy.

They are Communist, it seems, in name only. Perhaps some sort of authoritarian-type government....

[ScipioCowboy]

I find it ironic that, centuries ago, humanity was having virtually this same debate about infanticide: should the intentional killing of infants be allowed? In more recent history, the issue was whether or not Africans were "human" enough to share in the same rights that we enjoy today.

Thankfully, we eventually decided that the intentional killing of an infant was both murderous and barbaric, and that Africans were just as human as anyone else.

We can only hope the abortion debate follows a similar trend.

[Cajuncowboy]

this?

Originally Posted by iceberg http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2108868#post2108868)
while i'm against it for me, i have to say i agree with this. i just can't pur my own morality on others like it's a one size *should* fit all scenario.

that hardly means i condone murder, cajun. you don't know why i feel the way i do or how i arrived at my choices within my own faith. you only seem to know it's not this so it must be that. so if that *is* how you understand things then no, you don't get me.

taking one sentence and drawing those conclusions bypasses of lot of "me" cajun. all i'm trying to say.

ya'll have fun w/this now. it's because of the IN YOUR FACE nature this can get i tend to avoid these convos. say how i feel, i must condone killing.

just don't get it.

I didn't say YOU condoned killing. I said that if you are going to use that line of reasoning then it must mean that you are willing to allow what you know is wrong to continue.

[Cajuncowboy]

yeah and they could grow up to be Ted Bundy, Charles Manson or the leader in Iran. Are you saying you are glad they were not aborted?

Wow. How stupid. And yes, I am glad they were not aborted because aborting then while they were still an innocent baby would be murder. The fact that they are ow or had become murderous thugs has nothing to do with their innocence before hand.

Someone who has the view you articulated knows they are on the losing end of an argument.

[ConcordCowboy]

Yep, got that out of the way. Because if you can say that baby should be aborted then you are right. You have none.

Oh CrazyCajun you just know I have a soul.

[ConcordCowboy]

this?

Originally Posted by iceberg http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2108868#post2108868)
while i'm against it for me, i have to say i agree with this. i just can't pur my own morality on others like it's a one size *should* fit all scenario.

that hardly means i condone murder, cajun. you don't know why i feel the way i do or how i arrived at my choices within my own faith. you only seem to know it's not this so it must be that. so if that *is* how you understand things then no, you don't get me.

taking one sentence and drawing those conclusions bypasses of lot of "me" cajun. all i'm trying to say.

ya'll have fun w/this now. it's because of the IN YOUR FACE nature this can get i tend to avoid these convos. say how i feel, i must condone killing.

just don't get it.

That's probably why most people just avoided this thread because EVERYONE knows where this thread was going to go is going and will go in the future.

It's really not worth it.

I just figured since he kept bumping it and saying people were avoiding it because of the picture I would again reiterate how I feel...to show that I was not avoiding this thread...it just has been beat to death many times here as we all know.

I REALLY could give a rats *** if he says I have no soul or I want to kill babies.

That stuff makes me laugh.

I'm Pro-Choice and make no bones or apologies for it.

Abortion would not be my first choice in how to handle a unwanted pregnancy but it should be a choice.

If you (not you but anyone) don't agree fine...I really could care less.

[peplaw06]

I must have no soul either. I just don't believe the government has the right to tell an adult woman what she has to do with her body.Every day the government tells adult women (and men for that matter) what they can and can't do with their bodies.

[iceberg]

I didn't say YOU condoned killing. I said that if you are going to use that line of reasoning then it must mean that you are willing to allow what you know is wrong to continue.

you're wrong.

have a nice day.

[the kid 05]

Here is a pic .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1024297/Mothers-anger-turns-delight-baby-survives-abortion.html

one day he'll be board and google his or his mothers name and come across this article...

[SuspectCorner]

Of course the "pro life" folks are adamantly vocal regarding abortion - because in their moral view it represents murder. And it would be unreasonable to expect a responsible person not to decry murder.

I'm a "pro choice" person myself. But I don't have problems with "pro lifers" anymore. Not since the lunatic fringe, death-threat-making, clinic-bombing, doctor&nurse-killing element of the "pro life movement" has died down. Or gone to prison.

Now it's pretty much limited to loud verbal exchanges. Cool.

[gbrittain]

Of course the "pro life" folks are adamantly vocal regarding abortion - because in their moral view it represents murder. And it would be unreasonable to expect a responsible person not to decry murder.
I'm a "pro choice" person myself. But I don't have problems with "pro lifers" anymore. Not since the lunatic fringe, death-threat-making, clinic-bombing, doctor&nurse-killing element of the "pro life movement" has died down. Or gone to prison.

Now it's pretty much limited to loud verbal exchanges. Cool.

Exactly. I am just waiting for one Pro Choice person to tell me at what point is abortion killing a baby versus the equivalent of cutting a toe nail.

Surely at some point you believe that it is killing.

Or is it a case of the baby is still in the womb so it is never killing a baby?

Can you kill the baby once the baby is out of the womb, but still has umbelical cord attached and has not taken a breath on its own yet?

Surely there is some common ground somewhere. Surely at some point we can all agree that abortion is killing.

We may not ever all agree on when that "point" is, but surely many babies can be saved due to finding a common ground.

[Cajuncowboy]

That's probably why most people just avoided this thread because EVERYONE knows where this thread was going to go is going and will go in the future.

It's really not worth it.

I just figured since he kept bumping it and saying people were avoiding it because of the picture I would again reiterate how I feel...to show that I was not avoiding this thread...it just has been beat to death many times here as we all know.

I REALLY could give a rats *** if he says I have no soul or I want to kill babies.

That stuff makes me laugh.

I'm Pro-Choice and make no bones or apologies for it.

Abortion would not be my first choice in how to handle a unwanted pregnancy but it should be a choice.

If you (not you but anyone) don't agree fine...I really could care less.

And that's it in a nut shell.

As long as the consequences of your actions be obliterated at the expense of a human life you are ok with it. And that is why I say that people who think it is a "choice" and not a baby either have no soul, or no sense.

It's a narcissistic view and it is sad that this society has gone from one of valuing human life to disposing of it like it was yesterdays trash.

Shame on you and all who support this barbaric procedure.

[locked&loaded]

I'm Pro-Choice picture or no picture.

I have no soul.

There we can get that out of the way.


Hey I was pretty much just informed that I also have no soul. Maybe you and I should get together and go soul searching.

Its funny, because if this baby turned out to be homosexual cajun would probally rather it have been aborted.

[Cajuncowboy]

Hey I was pretty much just informed that I also have no soul. Maybe you and I should get together and go soul searching.

Its funny, because if this baby turned out to be homosexual cajun would probally rather it have been aborted.

You are a liar.

[ConcordCowboy]

And that's it in a nut shell.

As long as the consequences of your actions be obliterated at the expense of a human life you are ok with it. And that is why I say that people who think it is a "choice" and not a baby either have no soul, or no sense.

It's a narcissistic view and it is sad that this society has gone from one of valuing human life to disposing of it like it was yesterdays trash.

Shame on you and all who support this barbaric procedure.

So you don't agree with me?

[ConcordCowboy]

Hey I was pretty much just informed that I also have no soul. Maybe you and I should get together and go soul searching.




http://www.ambadges.co.uk/pics/small/lost.jpg

Only Select Members allowed.

You KNOW who you are!

[Vintage]

Concord, I will pray for your soul.

[iceberg]

Concord, I will pray for your soul.

i feel so left out....

[ConcordCowboy]

Concord, I will pray for your soul.

Don't bother, I don't have one.

[Cajuncowboy]

Go ahead act like jerks over this. But for every baby that dies because you think it's a choice it on your head. But because you have no conscience it won't matter right away to you. One day it will.

[iceberg]

Go ahead act like jerks over this. But for every baby that dies because you think it's a choice it on your head. But because you have no conscience it won't matter right away to you. One day it will.

who was the one bumping the thread doing the "in your face" thing?

they were trying to be civil and just ignore it. you went poking at it. don't get so surprised you pretty much got what you were looking for.

[Vintage]

Go ahead act like jerks over this. But for every baby that dies because you think it's a choice it on your head. But because you have no conscience it won't matter right away to you. One day it will.


How is it on my head when a mother gets an abortion?

I didn't make that choice/tell her to make that choice.

[Cajuncowboy]

How is it on my head when a mother gets an abortion?

I didn't make that choice/tell her to make that choice.

It is when you support the barbaric practice. When you elect those who will do everything they can to keep it legal. When you don't speak out for those who have no voice.

That's how.

[Cajuncowboy]

who was the one bumping the thread doing the "in your face" thing?

they were trying to be civil and just ignore it. you went poking at it. don't get so surprised you pretty much got what you were looking for.

Oh, I'm not surprised at all. What makes you think that?

Just exposing them. To say that this baby would be better off dead is pathetic. And why they support this practice that is what they are saying. I didn't "get what I was looking for." :rolleyes:

I did exactly what I wanted to do. Was find out just how shallow people are who support this.

[Vintage]

It is when you support the barbaric practice. When you elect those who will do everything they can to keep it legal. When you don't speak out for those who have no voice.

That's how.

Ah. I elect those who will do everything they can to keep it legal.

Cool.

Thing is, the abortion issue is waaaaaaaaaaaay down there on issues I look at. In fact, its nearly irrelevant. I can and have just as easily vote for someone pro-choice as I can pro-life. Proof? I voted for Bush the 2nd time around.

I have never used abortion as a criteria, and never will.... its just not that important of an issue for me. Economic policy, foreign affairs, terrorism, some domestic agendas (mainly gov't spending, size of gov't, role of gov't) are criterias that make or break candidates for me.

I usually just look up the abortion issue out of curiosity... and then I completely disregard it.

[ConcordCowboy]

Go ahead act like jerks over this. But for every baby that dies because you think it's a choice it on your head. But because you have no conscience it won't matter right away to you. One day it will.

Sorry CrazyCajun but you reap what you sow.

You kept bumping this thread when people were going to let it go...honestly you're the one being the jerk.

And get off your biblical fear tactics..it really is old already.

I'm not worried one bit.

[Cajuncowboy]

Ah. I elect those who will do everything they can to keep it legal.

Cool.

Thing is, the abortion issue is waaaaaaaaaaaay down there on issues I look at. In fact, its nearly irrelevant. I can and have just as easily vote for someone pro-choice as I can pro-life. Proof? I voted for Bush the 2nd time around.

I have never used abortion as a criteria, and never will.... its just not that important of an issue for me. Economic policy, foreign affairs, terrorism, some domestic agendas (mainly gov't spending, size of gov't, role of gov't) are criterias that make or break candidates for me.

I usually just look up the abortion issue out of curiosity... and then I completely disregard it.

and there ya go.

[ConcordCowboy]

Ah. I elect those who will do everything they can to keep it legal.

Cool.

Thing is, the abortion issue is waaaaaaaaaaaay down there on issues I look at. In fact, its nearly irrelevant. I can and have just as easily vote for someone pro-choice as I can pro-life. Proof? I voted for Bush the 2nd time around.


I have never used abortion as a criteria, and never will.... its just not that important of an issue for me. Economic policy, foreign affairs, terrorism, some domestic agendas (mainly gov't spending, size of gov't, role of gov't) are criterias that make or break candidates for me.

I usually just look up the abortion issue out of curiosity... and then I completely disregard it.

Absolutely the final nail in the coffin.

You have no soul and never will.

:D

[Cajuncowboy]

Sorry CrazyCajun but you reap what you sow.

You kept bumping this thread when people were going to let it go...honestly you're the one being the jerk.

And get off your biblical fear tactics..it really is old already.

I'm not worried one bit.

Fear tactics? Really? Old? Sure is. About 2000 years old. But go ahead. Keep it up. This is why the people on your side of the political spectrum are viewed with such contempt because you are morally bankrupt.

Keep killing babies. Keep supporting those who do. You are no better than those who suck those babies in the sink. Who dismember them within the womb of the mother.

You are no better.

[ConcordCowboy]

Fear tactics? Really? Old? Sure is. About 2000 years old. But go ahead. Keep it up. This is why the people on your side of the political spectrum are viewed with such contempt because you are morally bankrupt.

Keep killing babies. Keep supporting those who do. You are no better than those who suck those babies in the sink. Who dismember them within the womb of the mother.

You are no better.

http://home.exetel.com.au/sharksaus/tasti%20fruit%20and%20nut%20bar.jpg

Get a grip man.

[Vintage]

and there ya go.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Say McCain was pro abortion and Obama was anti-abortion. Say the rest of the issues remain the same as they presently are. Could you sacrifice the abortion issue to vote for McCain? Or would you go with Obama since he'd have the same stance on abortion as you? Or would you go 3rd party (and possibly risk Obama sneaking in as President)?

Who would you vote for?

[ConcordCowboy]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Say McCain was pro abortion and Obama was anti-abortion. Say the rest of the issues remain the same as they presently are. Could you sacrifice the abortion issue to vote for McCain? Or would you go with Obama since he'd have the same stance on abortion as you? Or would you go 3rd party (and possibly risk Obama sneaking in as President)?

Who would you vote for?

Hillary!

:laugh2:

[Vintage]

and there ya go.

Actually, if I never use it as a criteria, I am just as likely to vote for someone who is pro life as I am pro choice.

So how am I helping to elect those that keep abortion legal?


And technically, given my political leanings, I am more likely to vote for someone who is pro life than I am pro choice....

[BrAinPaiNt]

Let me ask you a hypothetical question.

Say McCain was pro abortion and Obama was anti-abortion. Say the rest of the issues remain the same as they presently are. Could you sacrifice the abortion issue to vote for McCain? Or would you go with Obama since he'd have the same stance on abortion as you? Or would you go 3rd party (and possibly risk Obama sneaking in as President)?

Who would you vote for?

He would vote for whoever the republican party put out there, even if there was a bizzaro world where the democratic candidate was actually more conservative.

He has GOP fever and the only prescription for it is more cow bell.:laugh2:

[BrAinPaiNt]

Actually, if I never use it as a criteria, I am just as likely to vote for someone who is pro life as I am pro choice.

So how am I helping to elect those that keep abortion legal?


And technically, given my political leanings, I am more likely to vote for someone who is pro life than I am pro choice....

You can vote for whoever you want because it is no longer really about who can change it...it is now only a political talking point that both sides use to pander to their base.

[iceberg]

Oh, I'm not surprised at all. What makes you think that?

Just exposing them. To say that this baby would be better off dead is pathetic. And why they support this practice that is what they are saying. I didn't "get what I was looking for." :rolleyes:

I did exactly what I wanted to do. Was find out just how shallow people are who support this.

how does getting what you expect expose anyone, cajun? if you knew what they were to begin with how does getting them to go "yes, that's how i feel" expose them all over again?

i'm far from shallow. but i guess that's why you mis-read me a lot.

[iceberg]

Fear tactics? Really? Old? Sure is. About 2000 years old. But go ahead. Keep it up. This is why the people on your side of the political spectrum are viewed with such contempt because you are morally bankrupt.

Keep killing babies. Keep supporting those who do. You are no better than those who suck those babies in the sink. Who dismember them within the womb of the mother.

You are no better.

i find this pretty offensive and i find it funny that someone so religious judges
so easily.

forgive me, but i thought that was His job.

now, since the board doesn't like to go into religion, i'm out.

[ConcordCowboy]

He would vote for whoever the republican party put out there, even if there was a bizzaro world where the democratic candidate was actually more conservative.

He has GOP fever and the only prescription for it is more cow bell.:laugh2:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/-marhari-/MoreCowbell.jpg


:laugh2:

[iceberg]

Fear tactics? Really? Old? Sure is. About 2000 years old. But go ahead. Keep it up. This is why the people on your side of the political spectrum are viewed with such contempt because you are morally bankrupt.

Keep killing babies. Keep supporting those who do. You are no better than those who suck those babies in the sink. Who dismember them within the womb of the mother.

You are no better.

but back to the topic you're again wrong.

i don't support what they do.
i support their right to make their own choices.

i never said i felt there would be no reprocussions for their actions or i would agree with every choice they made. i just said it's their choice - and yes, i hope they make the right one.

[iceberg]

He would vote for whoever the republican party put out there, even if there was a bizzaro world where the democratic candidate was actually more conservative.

He has GOP fever and the only prescription for it is more cow bell.:laugh2:

bp - i was the same way for awhile. my side is better than your side. in the end, they're just sides. i'm anxious for someone who puts the sides away and wants to see us as a whole.

but on the other hand, i don't think we'd allow them to do that.

[Vintage]

but back to the topic you're again wrong.

i don't support what they do.
i support their right to make their own choices.

i
More or less my position too.

I will add that in cases of rape or mother's life endangerment, I find it hard to condemn the mother.

[ConcordCowboy]

i find this pretty offensive and i find it funny that someone so religious judges
so easily.

forgive me, but i thought that was His job.

now, since the board doesn't like to go into religion, i'm out.

Actually he has it wrong.

The way he acts in here is the reason people that think like him and act like him are viewed with such contempt.

The holier than thou...you have no soul...you're a coathanger killer...God is going to strike you down BS.

Anyone who doesn't agree with him in this forum is either and idiot...stupid...a killer...morally corrupt...blah...blah...blah.

Frickin ridiculous.

[iceberg]

Actually he has it wrong.

The way he acts in here is the reason people that think like him and act like him are viewed with such contempt.

The holier than thou...you have no soul...you're a coathanger killer...God is going to strike you down BS.

Anyone who doesn't agree with him in this forum is either and idiot...stupid...a killer...morally corupt...blah...blah...blah.

Frickin ridiculous.

it's just a wall. we all have them. in the end we say a lot of things "over the top" when it's about something especially close to us. i understand it and to a point expect it. i just wish we could get past it.

[Cajuncowboy]

i find this pretty offensive and i find it funny that someone so religious judges
so easily.

forgive me, but i thought that was His job.

now, since the board doesn't like to go into religion, i'm out.

You obviously have no idea what the judging this is about. You are to judge actions and also those who are not your brothers in . It says not to judge your brothers.

Those who support, weather vocally or passively by not taking a stand to stop it are open to being judged.

And you are right, since we can not get into the full discussion, I guess you will have to figure that out on your own. Check the bible a little more closely.

[ConcordCowboy]

it's just a wall. we all have them. in the end we say a lot of things "over the top" when it's about something especially close to us. i understand it and to a point expect it. i just wish we could get past it.

Sorry but I think he takes it to a whole new level sometimes.

[Cajuncowboy]

Actually he has it wrong.

The way he acts in here is the reason people that think like him and act like him are viewed with such contempt.

The holier than thou...you have no soul...you're a coathanger killer...God is going to strike you down BS.

Anyone who doesn't agree with him in this forum is either and idiot...stupid...a killer...morally corrupt...blah...blah...blah.

Frickin ridiculous.

Not holier than thou. Just passionate about this issue. I know for a fact that you are killing babies when you abort them. Only a moron would not see that.

And i never used the term coathanger killer. You did. But if the coathanger fits....

And yes, if you support abortion (it's not a choice) you are an idiot.

And that's what is frickin' ridiculous.

[Vintage]

it's just a wall. we all have them. in the end we say a lot of things "over the top" when it's about something especially close to us. i understand it and to a point expect it. i just wish we could get past it.


True. And maybe I should cut him some slack for that since its obviously personal.

__________

Whatever cajun. If you wish to believe I have no soul, go right ahead. Pretty harsh stance to take when you don't know me personally nor really know much about me, but hey, you are allowed to have that belief.

See ya in the next thread (which ironically, we'll probably share a similar belief in, knowing how this forum operates and guessing it will either be about the upcoming election or foreign relations stuff)

[Cajuncowboy]

http://home.exetel.com.au/sharksaus/tasti%20fruit%20and%20nut%20bar.jpg

Get a grip man.

That's all you got?

You just don't want to admit what happens to those babies so you can stay comfortable with your position.

Tell you what. If you have the nerve, google aborted baby and look at the images. Then come back here and tell me you still feel the same way. Then if you can, I will not discuss it with you anymore, because at that point, my point about those who support this action will have been made.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well imagine that. A topic that just brings out the best in people who feel the need to say some things.

5
4
3
2
1
CLOSED