We Must Correct Western Media Perception On Islam, Says Rais

[vta]

While of course blaming the 'media' for an interpretation, he at least recognizes the answer for repairing Islam's image has to come from within. Perhaps he can be louder than the so called fake Muslims who's actions have a global affect.

Link (http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=338174)
KUALA LUMPUR, June 9 (Bernama) -- The key to ensure better relations between the Muslim world and western nations is by correcting the foreign media's perception of Islam as a religion of terror synonymous with the Al-Qaeda movement, Foreign Minister Datuk Seri Dr Rais Yatim said Monday.

"One of the stumbling blocks is the power of the media in the West that doesn't seem to give a margin for us to come in into understanding Islam more objectively.

"The coverage they give is more about sensational news about terror, about captivity, about war and not on the other side of Islam which I have always been stressing -- the life of Muslims.

"Therefore, the tenets of Islam urging us to be calm and be appreciative of beauty and the world have never been put forward in a manner that is coercive enough or effective enough. There lies the problem," he said in his welcoming remarks at the "Third International Conference On the Muslim World and The West: Bridging the Gap".

Rais stressed this point owing to rising Islamophobia among westerners.

Rais said even the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) and other Islamic organisations and associations had never taken steps to correct this wrong point of view painted by the western media which equates Muslims and Islam with the Al-Qaeda.

"Actually, this is not the reality, it is a political movement by the Al-Qaeda. Islam is not Al-Qaeda. This notion has not been dispelled by any group, be it the OIC or regional Islamic organisations in the world.

"As such, every time when the Al-Qaeda issue crops up in Britain, it is equated with Islam. This is the wrong perception which we need to address.

"How do you do this?. I think it is only with the concerted efforts of our own Islamic media to project the truth. We have to have the forum, we have to have the media treatment and we have to have the political will among OIC members to project this sort of idea and image," he said.

On another matter, Rais said Malaysia planned to lead discussions on the fuel price hike with OIC members at its next convention to be held soon.

He said Malaysia would like to address this issue immediately with the OIC as oil was largely produced by Islamic countries, yet most of these countries would rather listen to the Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) rather than concerning themselves with the needs of the people.

Dr Rais said though he would like to talk directly to OPEC countries, he would still have to consult with OIC member states.

"Malaysia will also speak about how to alleviate the food crisis problem that is besetting the entire world and mostly countries coming under the flagship of the OIC.

"It would be rather untenable for me to unilaterally voice this to the OPEC without consulting my brothers in the OIC. So, Malaysia would like to say that in our next meeting this is the pivotal issue and no other rhetoric would supercede this," he added.

[AtlCB]

Our media is not the biggest problem causing Islamophobia. The problems is that you don't hear many Muslims condemning the attacks by al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. We just recently have heard major clerics begin to speak out against these organizations. Al Jazeera is also a major problem. When the top news organization in the Islamic world continues to praise terrorists and spew hate speach, the rest of the world will look at this region with disdain.

[burmafrd]

Yeah Sultan never answers the questions I have hit him with time and again about the leaders of Islamic communities not standing up and demanding that the extremeists in THEIR OWN communities be thrown out.

[Doomsday101]

Our media is not the biggest problem causing Islamophobia. The problems is that you don't hear many Muslims condemning the attacks by al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. We just recently have heard major clerics begin to speak out against these organizations. Al Jazeera is also a major problem. When the top news organization in the Islamic world continues to praise terrorists and spew hate speach, the rest of the world will look at this region with disdain.

I agree. It the perception is there is it because the voice we hear coming from the middle east are the extremist while others refuse to stand up and speak out against such acts and comments. Moderate Islamic religious leaders need to stand up and speak out

[BrAinPaiNt]

I agree. It the perception is there is it because the voice we hear coming from the middle east are the extremist while others refuse to stand up and speak out against such acts and comments. Moderate Islamic religious leaders need to stand up and speak out

Saudi Arabia has spoke out against it from one side of their mouths, but it would seem the other side of their mouths support it.

I guess it would be like a US president speaking out against the majority religion in the USA.

NO..once again NO I am not comparing religions or acts of religious zealots. Just making something plain that It is not exactly a shocker that some leaders in a MUSLIM country would not be too vigilant in speaking out against it.

Not excuses, just something to consider.

Personally I would love some kind of bomb that would only take out the extremists while leaving good muslims and infrastructure in place without harm. Of course I would love to win the powerball and marry Halle Berry and have eliza dushku as a mistress on the side. :laugh2:

[SultanOfSix]

Yeah Sultan never answers the questions I have hit him with time and again about the leaders of Islamic communities not standing up and demanding that the extremeists in THEIR OWN communities be thrown out.

Yeah I have. I even referenced a hyperlink. Apparently you ignored it, didn't see it, or you can't read.

http://islam.about.com/cs/currentevents/a/9_11statements.htm

[Doomsday101]

Saudi Arabia has spoke out against it from one side of their mouths, but it would seem the other side of their mouths support it.

I guess it would be like a US president speaking out against the majority religion in the USA.

NO..once again NO I am not comparing religions or acts of religious zealots. Just making something plain that It is not exactly a shocker that some leaders in a MUSLIM country would not be too vigilant in speaking out against it.

Not excuses, just something to consider.

Personally I would love some kind of bomb that would only take out the extremists while leaving good muslims and infrastructure in place without harm. Of course I would love to win the powerball and marry Halle Berry and have eliza dushku as a mistress on the side. :laugh2:

Well the royal family in Saudi Arabia is made up of around 5,000 people I'm sure some of them are sympathetic to the extremist however I think many members are not. In the past it was better for them to look the other way instead of confronting the extremist I think that is starting to change. I do think when many talk about the Saudi Royal family they don’t understand the overall size of that so called Royal family

As for this country we are very quick to condemn acts and speech that we find questionable or unacceptable and it makes its rounds throughout our media so I differ with you on that.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well the royal family in Saudi Arabia is made up of around 5,000 people I'm sure some of them are sympathetic to the extremist however I think many members are not. In the past it was better for them to look the other way instead of confronting the extremist I think that is starting to change. I do think when many talk about the Saudi Royal family they don’t understand the overall size of that so called Royal family

As for this country we are very quick to condemn acts and speech that we find questionable or unacceptable and it makes its rounds throughout our media so I differ with you on that.

I never understood how one year we could be giving weapons to groups of people in a middle eastern area who are MUSLIM and a few years later we are attacking them either verbally or physically or both.

On to the Saudi's. They have probably given more money to terrorist groups than Iran and Iraq combined. They have camps in their country as well.

Yet we do business with them on a regular basis and sell them huge loads of weapons.

Just does not make much since to try to stick it to one country for supporting terrorism while basically ignoring another, heck not ignoring...selling them weapons.

[Doomsday101]

I never understood how one year we could be giving weapons to groups of people in a middle eastern area who are MUSLIM and a few years later we are attacking them either verbally or physically or both.

On to the Saudi's. They have probably given more money to terrorist groups than Iran and Iraq combined. They have camps in their country as well.

Yet we do business with them on a regular basis and sell them huge loads of weapons.

Just does not make much since to try to stick it to one country for supporting terrorism while basically ignoring another, heck not ignoring...selling them weapons.

Well SA has come under terrorist attacks themselves over the years and Bin Laden himself is no friend of the Royal Family because of their ties with the US. It was SA who kicked him out of the country. No doubt most of the 9/11 terrorist came from SA as did Bin Laden himself and yet these groups have come under attack by the SA Government.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well SA has come under terrorist attacks themselves over the years and Bin Laden himself is no friend of the Royal Family because of their ties with the US. It was SA who kicked him out of the country. No doubt most of the 9/11 terrorist came from SA as did Bin Laden himself and yet these groups have come under attack by the SA Government.

Yes that is why they still continue to be among the world leaders in support terrorists INCLUDING HAMAS while Iran is the only one that is made out to be the bad guy in supporting those groups.

Furthermore if Bush does not care about OBL...well enough said on that topic.

[Doomsday101]

Yes that is why they still continue to be among the world leaders in support terrorists INCLUDING HAMAS while Iran is the only one that is made out to be the bad guy in supporting those groups.

Furthermore if Bush does not care about OBL...well enough said on that topic.

They do support the Palestine Government which is controlled by Hamas and chance are will continue to do so until a peace agreement is reached. However as I said SA has also been hit by terrorist attacks, I don't recall Iran being on the receiving end of a terrorist attack.

[BrAinPaiNt]

They do support the Palestine Government which is controlled by Hamas and chance are will continue to do so until a peace agreement is reached. However as I said SA has also been hit by terrorist attacks, I don't recall Iran being on the receiving end of a terrorist attack.

Most of the 80's Iraq was at war with Iran. We should remember that one pretty well I would think. And if I do recall Iraq invaded Iran first.

Now these were not terrorists, this was a war with regulated armies. But they were invaded and were attacked by Iraq.

[Doomsday101]

Most of the 80's Iraq was at war with Iran. We should remember that one pretty well I would think. And if I do recall Iraq invaded Iran first.

Now these were not terrorists, this was a war with regulated armies. But they were invaded and were attacked by Iraq.

I'm not saying we have gone to bed with some rotten people. We did support Iraq because of the action by Iran. I'm not trying to make us out as saints by no means the US over the years has made some bad choices that have come back on us.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm not saying we have gone to bed with some rotten people. We did support Iraq because of the action by Iran. I'm not trying to make us out as saints by no means the US over the years has made some bad choices that have come back on us.

And do you not think that maybe the idea of selling loads of weapons to a country that supports terrorism like SA, in a time with soaring gas prices, might not come back to bite us one day?

[Doomsday101]

And do you not think that maybe the idea of selling loads of weapons to a country that supports terrorism like SA, in a time with soaring gas prices, might not come back to bite us one day?

Their weapon is the oil. US is not selling anything we can't defend against.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Their weapon is the oil. US is not selling anything we can't defend against.

Oh I forgot that the terrorists are using high tech weapons against us that we don't have anything to use against.

Damn Cell phones, explosives, AKs and RPGs must be some serious high tech weaponry as we have not exactly had an easy time.

[Doomsday101]

Oh I forgot that the terrorists are using high tech weapons against us that we don't have anything to use against.

Damn Cell phones, explosives, AKs and RPGs must be some serious high tech weaponry as we have not exactly had an easy time.

True they are using AK47 not a US made guns, explosive devices out of Iran not the US. For all the support Iraq was given they did not use US made tanks, guns, aircraft or explosives when our military rolled though Iraq. Go figure

[BrAinPaiNt]

True they are using AK47 not a US made guns, explosive devices out of Iran not the US. For all the support Iraq was given they did not use US made tanks, guns, aircraft or explosives when our military rolled though Iraq. Go figure

Iraq and Iran does not. But what about Saudi down the road? That was my point. Terrorists don't need better weapons than we have to wreak havoc.
And why should WE be selling weapons to a country that supports terrorism.

Not to mention bush wanting to sell JETS to Saudi. Or ok with Saudi interests buying and controlling our own ports...luckily people came to their senses on that one.

[Doomsday101]

Iraq and Iran does not. But what about Saudi down the road? That was my point. Terrorists don't need better weapons than we have to wreak havoc.
And why should WE be selling weapons to a country that supports terrorism.

Not to mention bush wanting to sell JETS to Saudi. Or ok with Saudi interests buying and controlling our own ports...luckily people came to their senses on that one.

They do support the Government wing of Hamas as part of the Palestinian Government, they do no support Al Qaeda and have been hit by terrorist attack from Al Qaeda Do I think they are the same as Iran and Syria and the relationship they have with Hezbollah no I don't. Would I like to see SA have no connection with Hamas yes

[BrAinPaiNt]

They do support the Government wing of Hamas as part of the Palestinian Government, they do no support Al Qaeda and have been hit by terrorist attack from Al Qaeda Do I think they are the same as Iran and Syria and the relationship they have with Hezbollah no I don't. Would I like to see SA have no connection with Hamas yes

Oh...I did not know we were now being selective as to which terrorists a country supports. Nice to know.

I guess it is a global war on the terrorists that happen to be supported by countries we have strategic interests in for different reasons.

[Doomsday101]

Oh...I did not know we were now being selective as to which terrorists a country supports. Nice to know.

I guess it is a global war on the terrorists that happen to be supported by countries we have strategic interests in for different reasons.

I'm not being selective but Palestine is runned by Hamas and even though we may not deal with them SA does and to some extent Israel and US will have to deal with them at some point if there is to be peace agreements between Palestine and Israel. Having an ally in SA could benefit in these talks.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm not being selective but Palestine is runned by Hamas and even though we may not deal with them SA does and to some extent Israel and US will have to deal with them at some point if there is to be peace agreements between Palestine and Israel. Having an ally in SA could benefit in these talks.

Hamas is not the only terrorist organization that gets support from Saudi. I know this might be a bit of a shocker for you.

Even our OWN officials agree

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/us-saudis-still.html

[BrAinPaiNt]

They do support the Government wing of Hamas as part of the Palestinian Government, they do no support Al Qaeda and have been hit by terrorist attack from Al Qaeda Do I think they are the same as Iran and Syria and the relationship they have with Hezbollah no I don't. Would I like to see SA have no connection with Hamas yes

WRONG!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/us-saudis-still.html

[Doomsday101]

Hamas is not the only terrorist organization that gets support from Saudi. I know this might be a bit of a shocker for you.

Even our OWN officials agree

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/us-saudis-still.html

Rich Individuals who live in SA giving money is a bit different than the Government itself giving money. SA has been hit by attacks as well from al Qaeda can you explain that? Bin Landen main beef has been with the SA Government for allowing US companies and military on Saudi Soil. I agree SA needs to do more but no I don't see SA the same as Iran and Syria and I don't see them being hit by terrorist that they supposedly are supporting

[BrAinPaiNt]

Rich Individuals who live in SA giving money is a bit different than the Government itself giving money. SA has been hit by attacks as well from al Qaeda can you explain that? Bin Landen main beef has been with the SA Government for allowing US companies and military on Saudi Soil. I agree SA needs to do more but no I don't see SA the same as Iran and Syria and I don't see them being hit by terrorist that they supposedly are supporting

Those rich people are also part of the ROYAL FAMILY.

I don't care if they do have a cart full of princes. It still is the royal family.

[Doomsday101]

Those rich people are also part of the ROYAL FAMILY.

I don't care if they do have a cart full of princes. It still is the royal family.

Many hold a title but do not rule anything.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Many hold a title but do not rule anything.

But they are STILL SENDING MONEY TO TERRORISM and whether they do or do not rule anything means nothing.

Saudi Arabia still supports terrorism including AQ.

[Doomsday101]

But they are STILL SENDING MONEY TO TERRORISM and whether they do or do not rule anything means nothing.

Saudi Arabia still supports terrorism including AQ.

That is like saying the US Military is responsible for Tim McVay since they trained him. Saying they send money who is they? No the Government is not sending money are people in SA sending yes there is evidence of that. I doubt the SA government is sending money so that they too can be attacked by the same group they are supposedly funding.

[BrAinPaiNt]

That is like saying the US Military is responsible for Tim McVay since they trained him. Saying they send money who is they? No the Government is not sending money are people in SA sending yes there is evidence of that. I doubt the SA government is sending money so that they too can be attacked by the same group they are supposedly funding.

Tim McVey is not part of the royal family. Heck he is not even a distant cousin to a presidential family that I know of.

And you can argue with me all day. But the US Government says that they are supporting terrorists and those that ARE in charge of the government in Saudi look the other way concerning it.

That is the US saying that.

Despite six years of promises, U.S. officials say Saudi Arabia continues to look the other way at wealthy individuals identified as sending millions of dollars to al Qaeda.

"If I could somehow snap my fingers and cut off the funding from one country, it would be Saudi Arabia," Stuart Levey, the under secretary of the Treasury in charge of tracking terror financing, told ABC News.

Despite some efforts as a U.S. ally in the war on terror, Levey says Saudi Arabia has dropped the ball. Not one person identified by the United States and the United Nations as a terror financier has been prosecuted by the Saudis, Levey says.

"When the evidence is clear that these individuals have funded terrorist organizations, and knowingly done so, then that should be prosecuted and treated as real terrorism because it is," Levey says.

Among those on the donor list, according to U.S. officials, is Yasin al Qadi, a wealthy businessman named on both the U.S. and U.N. lists of al Qaeda financiers one month after the 9/11 attacks.

[Doomsday101]

Tim McVey is not part of the royal family. Heck he is not even a distant cousin to a presidential family that I know of.

And you can argue with me all day. But the US Government says that they are supporting terrorists and those that ARE in charge of the government in Saudi look the other way concerning it.

That is the US saying that.

Despite six years of promises, U.S. officials say Saudi Arabia continues to look the other way at wealthy individuals identified as sending millions of dollars to al Qaeda.

"If I could somehow snap my fingers and cut off the funding from one country, it would be Saudi Arabia," Stuart Levey, the under secretary of the Treasury in charge of tracking terror financing, told ABC News.

Despite some efforts as a U.S. ally in the war on terror, Levey says Saudi Arabia has dropped the ball. Not one person identified by the United States and the United Nations as a terror financier has been prosecuted by the Saudis, Levey says.

"When the evidence is clear that these individuals have funded terrorist organizations, and knowingly done so, then that should be prosecuted and treated as real terrorism because it is," Levey says.

Among those on the donor list, according to U.S. officials, is Yasin al Qadi, a wealthy businessman named on both the U.S. and U.N. lists of al Qaeda financiers one month after the 9/11 attacks.

And I said the SA Government can and should do a better job but saying they are giving the Money no where in that artical did it show they SA directly gave AQ money or support, you named 1 person who is not in the SA Governement and claim the entire government is supporting terrorist like Iran and Syria? Yet SA has been attacked by AQ that does not make sense that the same Government who has come under attack is funding those who are attacking them.

[vta]

I'm not about to defend Saudi Arabia, but that guy mentioned in the ABC blog is not part of the Royal Family. The dope was aquitted or 'exonerated' and his funds unfrozen too in 2007 - whether or not it's legit is something else. The Royal Family is guilty of turning a blind eye; they have their politics and interests to cater to.

A dart board and blindfold wasn't used on who to use military force and who to be diplomatic with.

The problem is deeper than that anyway. It's going to require more people to be more vocal about whether nor not they want to be linked with terrorists. They're going to have make a change.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm not about to defend Saudi Arabia, but that guy mentioned in the ABC blog is not part of the Royal Family. The dope was aquitted or 'exonerated' and his funds unfrozen too in 2007 - whether or not it's legit is something else. The Royal Family is guilty of turning a blind eye; they have their politics and interests to cater to.

A dart board and blindfold wasn't used on who to use military force and who to be diplomatic with.

The problem is deeper than that anyway. It's going to require more people to be more vocal about whether nor not they want to be linked with terrorists. They're going to have make a change.

I claimed in my one post that part of the royal family is supporting terrorists. In this article I was showing that Saudi does indeed turn a blind eye towards supporting terrorists including AQ.

[BrAinPaiNt]

And I said the SA Government can and should do a better job but saying they are giving the Money no where in that artical did it show they SA directly gave AQ money or support, you named 1 person who is not in the SA Governement and claim the entire government is supporting terrorist like Iran and Syria? Yet SA has been attacked by AQ that does not make sense that the same Government who has come under attack is funding those who are attacking them.

But once again they are turning a blind eye to it.

[vta]

I claimed in my one post that part of the royal family is supporting terrorists. In this article I was showing that Saudi does indeed turn a blind eye towards supporting terrorists including AQ.

Oh ok, two separate facets.
Gotcha.

[Doomsday101]

But once again they are turning a blind eye to it.

I agree I think in large part so that they can remain in power and avoid attacks by these groups. Recent statements by the king of SA hopefully shows a change in direction for SA as well as others in the Middle East.

Iran on the other hand will have military parades with Hezbollah leading the way with bombs strapped to them there is no blind eye about it their government does fund, trains and arms Hezbollah

I don't have a complete trust of SA and I think they walk a fine line between 2 worlds and being the home of Mecca only makes that line finer

[vta]

There is a completely different dynamic at work between the society in Iran and the society in Saudi Arabia. The population of Iran is more like the U.S. than any other Mid East nation, including having some of our faults. They can have a measure of apathy, because their poverty lines aren't as deep as those in Saudi Arabia.

Having a Royal family with a never ending reign, and deep divisions between the have's and the have not's causes much more discontent than having a more balanced society and even a system of Government with somewhat of a revolving door at President. Sure, he doesn't rule, thoroughly, as the Supreme Leader does, but the system of Governing is far superior to the Saudi's and it has a more positive effect on the population.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I agree I think in large part so that they can remain in power and avoid attacks by these groups. Recent statements by the king of SA hopefully shows a change in direction for SA as well as others in the Middle East.

Iran on the other hand will have military parades with Hezbollah leading the way with bombs strapped to them there is no blind eye about it their government does fund, trains and arms Hezbollah

I don't have a complete trust of SA and I think they walk a fine line between 2 worlds and being the home of Mecca only makes that line finer

So with our history of dealing with middle east groups in the past (you know like AQ and Tali) and it normally coming back to bite us in the backside.

Do you not think it is a VERY bad idea to sell weapons to the Saudis, Sell JETS to the saudis and of course the blocked sell of our ports security?

That is what all of my babbling is boiling down to.

Why can we trust these people who have funded terrorists of a different nature while at the same time selling them weapons including trying to sell them jets?

Are we just setting ourselves up for another bite in the backside down the road?

Why are we doing something so stupid?

[Doomsday101]

So with our history of dealing with middle east groups in the past (you know like AQ and Tali) and it normally coming back to bite us in the backside.

Do you not think it is a VERY bad idea to sell weapons to the Saudis, Sell JETS to the saudis and of course the blocked sell of our ports security?

That is what all of my babbling is boiling down to.

Why can we trust these people who have funded terrorists of a different nature while at the same time selling them weapons including trying to sell them jets?

Are we just setting ourselves up for another bite in the backside down the road?

Why are we doing something so stupid?

Given the fact SA has never shown aggression in the region no I don't have a problem with selling arms to defend themselves. As rich as they are they were in no position to stand up to Iraq as the Iraqi army mounted troops on the SA boarder. As for the security of the ports yes I think that should be done within but other countries have held the contract over ports however SA does not have that contract that was Dubai

[BrAinPaiNt]

Given the fact SA has never shown aggression in the region no I don't have a problem with selling arms to defend themselves. As rich as they are they were in no position to stand up to Iraq as the Iraqi army mounted troops on the SA boarder. As for the security of the ports yes I think that should be done within but other countries have held the contract over ports however SA does not have that contract that was Dubai

I guess we just see things different.

I just don't trust them enough to sell them weapons especially with our own history to gauge what has happened in the past.

Don't like it at all.

I think these guys are much worse than pre war Iraq when it comes to sponsoring terrorists, having terrorists camps in country and so on.

[iceberg]

And do you not think that maybe the idea of selling loads of weapons to a country that supports terrorism like SA, in a time with soaring gas prices, might not come back to bite us one day?

maybe now we should only sell weapons with a built in self-destruct timer we never tell others about. in 2 years it just disintigrates.

[Doomsday101]

I guess we just see things different.

I just don't trust them enough to sell them weapons especially with our own history to gauge what has happened in the past.

Don't like it at all.

I think these guys are much worse than pre war Iraq when it comes to sponsoring terrorists, having terrorists camps in country and so on.

I'm willing to disagree. We help Israel they are an ally we help SA I think they too are an ally and one who has not shown aggression in the region and a partner we need if peace can be achieved in the region SA will have to play a big role in this. But hey I'm willing to agree to disagree

[BrAinPaiNt]

maybe now we should only sell weapons with a built in self-destruct timer we never tell others about. in 2 years it just disintigrates.

I have made a similar statement in the past. Don't think you could do it for weapons but I don't see why you could not have sort of hidden system in say a Jet that would allow the US to disarm the jet if something like that would ever come up.

[iceberg]

I have made a similar statement in the past. Don't think you could do it for weapons but I don't see why you could not have sort of hidden system in say a Jet that would allow the US to disarm the jet if something like that would ever come up.

have some "backdoor" in it to where if they try to take off in a jet, we push a button and it just blows up.

bet they'd quit taking off.

[BrAinPaiNt]

have some "backdoor" in it to where if they try to take off in a jet, we push a button and it just blows up.

bet they'd quit taking off.

:laugh2: :laugh2: I like it.

[iceberg]

:laugh2: :laugh2: I like it.

don't know what's up sir - we keep taking off in the american jets and when they reach 20' they just blow up!

[BrAinPaiNt]

don't know what's up sir - we keep taking off in the american jets and when they reach 20' they just blow up!

Alaaaah....BOOM...instant karma. :D