Someone explain to me, too...

[Vintage]

If Obama is so against the war in Iraq, why does he say he is willing to send troops into Pakistan to get OBL.

Paki$tan is a U.S. ally.... and he is willing to send troops without Paki$tan's approval? Yet, Iraq is a foreign policy blunder (though admittedly, parts of it have been handled that way)?

Though, I suppose you could question why Paki$tan is an ally of the U.S. considering their [lack of help] pre-9-11 with OBL.... however, they are an ally in a key regional area of US interest.

[BrAinPaiNt]

If Obama is so against the war in Iraq, why does he say he is willing to send troops into Pakistan to get OBL.

Paki$tan is a U.S. ally.... and he is willing to send troops without Paki$tan's approval? Yet, Iraq is a foreign policy blunder (though admittedly, parts of it have been handled that way)?

Though, I suppose you could question why Paki$tan is an ally of the U.S. considering their [lack of help] pre-9-11 with OBL.... however, they are an ally in a key regional area of US interest.

What I found funny about Obama's pakistan remark some time ago. People on the other sider of the aisle were making fun of him and booing him and so on, yet months later they too saw that his words may turn out to be a possibility and were essentially saying the same thing.

There comes a time when a country who is your ally, yet at times seems to not take the capture of OBL seriously and know where he is at, and in some cases seems to not mind him being there...there comes a time when you have to tell them to get off their butts and do something about it or we will.

Then again maybe they are just following W's attitude that OBL is not a priority and he just does not care about him much.

[Vintage]

Thing is, I question how much control Pakistan really has over those tribal lands....

IOW, are they pretty much a de facto state itself.

Also, Pakistan has Al-Qaeda sympathizers across their gov't and intelligence community. So you could argue that informing Pakistan of anything is essentially the same as informing OBL himself.

[zrinkill]

Wow ..... every Obama thread gets turned into a Bush bash.

[Maikeru-sama]

I have not heard his comments but I always thought the whole war on terror was about combating an extremely amorphous entitity, which Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda were the face of.

I have no problem with the United States Government taking measures to apprehend these individuals.

[Vintage]

Wow ..... every Obama thread gets turned into a Bush bash.


Where is the bashing of Bush?

If anything, I should be accused of bashing Obama....


Yet, the only complaint comes from someone thinking its a bash Bush thread. Interesting.

[Maikeru-sama]

Where is the bashing of Bush?

One person in here criticized Bush.

But of course, when you are sensitive and very dogmatic in your views, one poster criticizing Bush is seen as an entire Bush bashing thread :rolleyes: .

[Doomsday101]

I think the US has hurt Al Queda ability in the way we have dealt with them instead of putting all resources to find 1 man. I think OBL will eventually get nailed but Al Queda is bigger than 1 man and the battle will continue even after OBL is gone.

[Vintage]

I think the US has hurt Al Queda ability in the way we have dealt with them instead of putting all resources to find 1 man. I think OBL will eventually get nailed but Al Queda is bigger than 1 man and the battle will continue even after OBL is gone.


Agreed.

OBL can stay in whatever cave he is in. So long as we keep killing, destroying, disrupting Al-Qaeda, freezing their assets, working with countries to secure their border, etc.

Killing/capturing OBL is nothing more than a symbolic thing that in reality will have no affect on Al-Qaeda. Everything else I said above does have an affect on Al-Qaeda and is far more important to carry out.

I don't think Bush flip-flopped on this issue. He did change his opinion, but I think it was bec. he finally realized just how little capturing OBL truly means in comparison to the broader strategy.

[Doomsday101]

Agreed.

OBL can stay in whatever cave he is in. So long as we keep killing, destroying, disrupting, Al-Qaeda, freezing their assets, working with countries to secure their border, etc.

Killing/capturing OBL is nothing more than a symbolic thing that in reality will have no affect on Al-Qaeda. Everything else I said above does have an affect on Al-Qaeda and is far more important to carry out.

Which is what Bush was getting at when he talked of OBL being irrelevant OBL is not in charge of too much even his communications tend to be weeks if not months old. It has nothing to do with not wanting to get him but for those who would use all resources to get 1 man I think it a bit of a narrow view of the overall battle.

[zrinkill]

very dogmatic

Explain how I am like that.

I was messing with BP ...... but I would like to see how you think I have a dogmatic viewpoint.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Explain how I am like that.

I was messing with BP ...... but I would like to see how you think I have a dogmatic viewpoint.

I think he is saying you smell like milk bones...but I could be wrong.:p:

[BrAinPaiNt]

another thing that needs to be clarified.

The bomb remark was meant to bomb OBL and AQ In pakistan. Not to bomb pakistan's government or the like.

It was basically saying, if you don't get the job done or take the job serious, let us in there to do it.

[Vintage]

another thing that needs to be clarified.

The bomb remark was meant to bomb OBL and AQ In pakistan. Not to bomb pakistan's government or the like.

It was basically saying, if you don't get the job done or take the job serious, let us in there to do it.

I know...

But its still a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty (and that of a US ally).

[zrinkill]

I think he is saying you smell like milk bones...but I could be wrong.:p:

I will admit I am very Bull Doggish when it comes to trolls ..... or those who attract my ire ....

But Dogmatic viewpoint means I have an arrogant assertion of an unproven or unprovable position or principle ......

So I want to know what he was talking about.

[Vintage]

I will admit I am very Bull Doggish when it comes to trolls ..... or those who attract my ire ....

But Dogmatic viewpoint means I have an arrogant assertion of an unproven or unprovable position or principle ......

So I want to know what he was talking about.

For instance, that this is a bash Bush thread....

[BrAinPaiNt]

I know...

But its still a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty (and that of a US ally).

At the time he said it, I did not disagree with his takes, nor do I now and most others don't either.

The problem with it was that he said it out loud in a debate IMO.

I don't care if OBL is the only person left from AQ. I want that SOB on a platter.

I imagine the boost to troop morale alone would be worth getting him.

[zrinkill]

For instance, that this is a bash Bush thread....

That was me messing with Brain .... he understood it .... I have been doing it everytime he brings Bush up when someone else is discussed.

Mick Green 58 acted as if it has history ..... I simply wanted him to elaborate.

[Vintage]

At the time he said it, I did not disagree with his takes, nor do I now and most others don't either.

The problem with it was that he said it out loud in a debate IMO.

I don't care if OBL is the only person left from AQ. I want that SOB on a platter.

I imagine the boost to troop morale alone would be worth getting him.


I know people are going to disagree with this....

But I want OBL alive. Not dead. I want him in prison; not executed. If he is somehow taken alive, he will want to be executed to be made a martyr.

I want him locked in prison for life. I don't want him getting what he wants. And I don't want Al-Qaeda to use it as a recruitment tool for extremists "be made a martyr like OBL against the infidels."

With him in prison, they can't do that. Its a huge slap in the face to Al-Qaeda to boot, being compared to common criminals. Its also another step at de-legitimizing their "campaign."

[zrinkill]

I know people are going to disagree with this....

But I want OBL alive. Not dead. I want him in prison; not executed. If he is somehow taken alive, he will want to be executed to be made a martyr.

I want him locked in prison for life. I don't want him getting what he wants. And I don't want Al-Qaeda to use it as a recruitment tool for extremists "be made a martyr like OBL against the infidels."

With him in prison, they can't do that. Its a huge slap in the face to Al-Qaeda to boot, being compared to common criminals. Its also another step at de-legitimizing their "campaign."

I agree with this.

[Maikeru-sama]

That was me messing with Brain .... he understood it .... I have been doing it everytime he brings Bush up when someone else is discussed.

Mick Green 58 acted as if it has history ..... I simply wanted him to elaborate.

Dogmatic doesn't necessarily mean you are "arrogant", it can also mean "opinionated", which in my context, it was not meant as a criticism but an observation.

It is no secret that Barack Obama and just about any criticism of Bush, whether real or perceived gets you riled up.

[zrinkill]

It is no secret that Barack Obama and just about any criticism of Bush, whether real or perceived gets you riled up.


I defend Obama on this forum all the time .... I do not agree with his socialist policies but he hardly gets me riled up ....

I have said many times that I see little difference between the two candidates .... as long as Hillary does not become his running mate I will defend Obama if he takes office and he will have a nice clean slate with me.

So once again .....

[BrAinPaiNt]

I know people are going to disagree with this....

But I want OBL alive. Not dead. I want him in prison; not executed. If he is somehow taken alive, he will want to be executed to be made a martyr.

I want him locked in prison for life. I don't want him getting what he wants. And I don't want Al-Qaeda to use it as a recruitment tool for extremists "be made a martyr like OBL against the infidels."

With him in prison, they can't do that. Its a huge slap in the face to Al-Qaeda to boot, being compared to common criminals. Its also another step at de-legitimizing their "campaign."

I used to worry about him being a maryr. No longer. Putting some of them in prison has not changed things nor has killing other top leaders.

[Doomsday101]

I used to worry about him being a maryr. No longer. Putting some of them in prison has not changed things nor has killing other top leaders.

I agree. I have a feeling when OBL goes down it will be at the hands of a drone given the mountainous region they are likely hiding in. How OBL goes down though does not matter be it captured or killed.

[Maikeru-sama]

I defend Obama on this forum all the time .... I do not agree with his socialist policies but he hardly gets me riled up ....

I have said many times that I see little difference between the two candidates .... as long as Hillary does not become his running mate I will defend Obama if he takes office and he will have a nice clean slate with me.

So once again .....

I apolgize for using that term.

[zrinkill]

I apolgize for using that term.

No apology necesary ..... was just trying to figure out what I said that put me on the same level as burm or abers.

[DFWJC]

I have not heard his comments but I always thought the whole war on terror was about combating an extremely amorphous entitity, which Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda were the face of.

I have no problem with the United States Government taking measures to apprehend these individuals.

Wouldn't mind at apprehending them either.

I do think the US originally put more value on OBL than the terrorists themselves did. As you know, Al Queda is one multi-group amound many opther terrorist oraganizations--many of which are more powerful than Al Queda, predate OBL, and in some cases have slightly different agenda emphasis. Nevertheless, it would have been nice if we would have followed through early-on while OBL was on the run, to close that loop so to speak.

[hairic]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7449060.stm

[ConcordCowboy]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5299/150nz7.jpg

[zrinkill]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7449060.stm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365821,00.html


Who you believe will tell you something about yourself.

[vta]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365821,00.html


Who you believe will tell you something about yourself.

Even so, do they expect our troops to simply accept being attacked because Pakistan wants to ride the fence and allow enemy combatants to function within their own borders?