Vick Goes Bankrupt

[Pick6TerenceNewman]

VICK GOES BANKRUPT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/)

Posted by Mike Florio on July 8, 2008, 10:35 a.m. EDT
The football player (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/#) whom many regard as morally bankrupt is now financially bankrupt as well.
Imprisoned Falcons (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/#) quarterback Mike Vick, who is doing time do to his dog-fighting activities, has filed for federal bankruptcy protection (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2008/07/08/vick_0709.html), according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
The Hampton Roads Pilot has the following quote from the filing: “The hope is that [Vick] can, after the conclusion of the bankruptcy case, rebuild his life on a personal and spiritual level, resurrect his image as a public figure, and resolve matters with the NFL (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/#) such that he can resume his career (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/07/michael-vick-files-bankruptcy-newport-news).”
Vick asserted in the paperwork that he owes between $10 million and $50 million. (It’s unknown whether that amount includes the pack of smokes he borrowed from him cellmate.) Vick’s seven largest creditors are expected to have claims in the range of $12.8 million.
Included among the debts is $3.75 million in signing bonus money to which the Falcons are legally entitled.
We’re not experts in bankruptcy law (we invite any members of PFT Planet who are to chime in via e-mail (florio@profootballtalk.com)), but we vaguely recall that there are two types of bankruptcy – liquidation and reorganization. We’re also generally aware that the credit-card lobby helped push through revisions to the bankruptcy laws that make it harder to utilize this device to get a fresh start (and thus to stiff the credit-card companies).
As a practical matter, Vick’s non-exempt assets will be rounded up and redistributed to his creditors. And there are different levels of creditors. Some have priority over others. Those without priority typically are lucky to get 10 cents for each dollar they are owed.
The other twist here is that the bankruptcy rules likely will postpone indefinitely the NFL’s appeal of the ruling that exempted nearly $20 million in bonus money from recovery. Eventually (and again we’re not experts on this), the issue could be resolved under the auspices of the bankruptcy court system.

link:profootballtalk.com

Couldn't happen to a better guy!

[Chocolate Lab]

Unbelievable.

[Doomsday101]

Unbelievable.

Good news is his lawyer is now much wealthier than before.:lmao:

[stealth]

bankruptcy is a scam to keep most of your wealth when you see it all going away.

9 times out of 10 I don't hate on those people, they got in over their head and need a way out. Mike Vick though is a scumbag abusing the system. If I ever meet him I will punch him in the face.

[DallasDomination]

Honestly I feel bad for Vick. I hope he stays in shape so He can resume his career in the NFL.

[Yeagermeister]

bankruptcy is a scam to keep most of your wealth when you see it all going away.

9 times out of 10 I don't hate on those people, they got in over their head and need a way out. Mike Vick though is a scumbag abusing the system. If I ever meet him I will punch him in the face.

I hope the dog bites heal. ;)

I keeeeeed I keeeeed

[DallasDomination]

bankruptcy is a scam to keep most of your wealth when you see it all going away.

9 times out of 10 I don't hate on those people, they got in over their head and need a way out. Mike Vick though is a scumbag abusing the system. If I ever meet him I will punch him in the face.

I wouldnt want to give away all my money either. F the system if you ask Me.

[STAR GAZER]

I hope he can retain enough funds for the Mexican Mafia. I wouldn't want him to find himself unable to protect his ***ets. :o:

[GimmeTheBall!]

I hope he can retain enough funds for the Mexican Mafia. I wouldn't want him to find himself unable to protect his ***ets. :o:

"La Eme" is not prevalent in federal pens, though there is some representation there.
Just as well, we wouldn't want El Michael to go from dogs to the poultry variety.
;)

[Pick6TerenceNewman]

Honestly I feel bad for Vick. I hope he stays in shape so He can resume his career in the NFL.



How do you feel bad for scum like Vick?

[Big Country]

VICK GOES BANKRUPT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/)

Posted by Mike Florio on July 8, 2008, 10:35 a.m. EDT
The football player (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/#) whom many regard as morally bankrupt is now financially bankrupt as well.
Imprisoned Falcons (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/#) quarterback Mike Vick, who is doing time do to his dog-fighting activities, has filed for federal bankruptcy protection (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2008/07/08/vick_0709.html), according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
The Hampton Roads Pilot has the following quote from the filing: “The hope is that [Vick] can, after the conclusion of the bankruptcy case, rebuild his life on a personal and spiritual level, resurrect his image as a public figure, and resolve matters with the NFL (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/vick-goes-bankrupt/#) such that he can resume his career (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/07/michael-vick-files-bankruptcy-newport-news).”
Vick asserted in the paperwork that he owes between $10 million and $50 million. (It’s unknown whether that amount includes the pack of smokes he borrowed from him cellmate.) Vick’s seven largest creditors are expected to have claims in the range of $12.8 million.
Included among the debts is $3.75 million in signing bonus money to which the Falcons are legally entitled.
We’re not experts in bankruptcy law (we invite any members of PFT Planet who are to chime in via e-mail (florio@profootballtalk.com)), but we vaguely recall that there are two types of bankruptcy – liquidation and reorganization. We’re also generally aware that the credit-card lobby helped push through revisions to the bankruptcy laws that make it harder to utilize this device to get a fresh start (and thus to stiff the credit-card companies).
As a practical matter, Vick’s non-exempt assets will be rounded up and redistributed to his creditors. And there are different levels of creditors. Some have priority over others. Those without priority typically are lucky to get 10 cents for each dollar they are owed.
The other twist here is that the bankruptcy rules likely will postpone indefinitely the NFL’s appeal of the ruling that exempted nearly $20 million in bonus money from recovery. Eventually (and again we’re not experts on this), the issue could be resolved under the auspices of the bankruptcy court system.

link:profootballtalk.com

Couldn't happen to a better guy!

I see Vick having a better chance of growing a rack of antlers than that happening

Honestly I feel bad for Vick. I hope he stays in shape so He can resume his career in the NFL.

Vick is a dog killer... I don't feel sorry for him one tiny bit, you reap what you sow... I don't see him playing NFL football again... Good riddance

[big dog cowboy]

Michael Vick files for bankruptcy protection

By MICHAEL FELBERBAUM, Associated Press Writer

AP - Jul 8, 9:36 am EDT

RICHMOND, Va. (AP)—Imprisoned quarterback Michael Vick (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5448/;_ylt=AiMJY29DLfEsD0DIRi4OYiAdsLYF) filed for bankruptcy protection while serving time for federal dogfighting charges, saying he owes between $10 million and $50 million to creditors.

Vick filed Chapter 11 papers in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Newport News on Monday. The seven largest creditors listed in the court papers are owed a total of about $12.8 million.

The suspended Atlanta Falcons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/atl/;_ylt=An4oPhEB5eeoHHGPIEKs08gdsLYF) quarterback hopes he “can, after the conclusion of the bankruptcy case, rebuild his life on a personal and spiritual level, resurrect his image as a public figure, and resolve matters with the NFL such that he can resume his career,” according to the filings.

Vick is serving a 23-month prison sentence at the U.S. Penitentiary in Leavenworth, Kan., after pleading guilty last year to bankrolling a dogfighting ring. He was subsequently suspended indefinitely without pay and lost all his major sponsors, including Nike. He also faces state charges related to dogfighting.

The debt includes part of a signing bonus that the Falcons are seeking to recover.


After the plea on dogfighting charges, the Falcons tried to recover about $20 million in bonuses Vick earned from 2004 to 2007. But a federal judge held that Vick is entitled to keep all but $3.75 million of the money paid to him for playing football through the 2014 season.

According to the filings, Vick’s other debts include $4.5 million owed to Richmond-based Joel Enterprises Inc., and $550,0000 owed to Radtke Sports Inc. for breach of contract.

In May, a federal judge ordered Vick to repay about $2.5 million to a Canadian bank for defaulting on a loan. The Royal Bank of Canada had sued Vick in September, arguing his guilty plea to a federal dogfighting charge—and the resulting impact on his career—prevented him from repaying the loan.

A default judgment for $1.08 million also was entered in January against Vick and a business partner in a lawsuit brought by Wachovia Bank over a loan for an Atlanta-area wine shop and restaurant.

[big dog cowboy]

And before you ask Yeag, no I have not been to Leavenworth to visit him.

[stealth]

I wouldnt want to give away all my money either. F the system if you ask Me.


all well and good if you are a decent person

Mike Vick isn't a decent person.

[Seven]

Don't get me flippin' started...................

[WoodysGirl]

bankruptcy is a scam to keep most of your wealth when you see it all going away.

9 times out of 10 I don't hate on those people, they got in over their head and need a way out. Mike Vick though is a scumbag abusing the system. If I ever meet him I will punch him in the face.Not sure how he is abusing the system. Filing for bankruptcy protection is SOP when you have a bunch of creditors coming after your assets. This applies to the rich (like Mike) and the poor (like me). Doesn't matter if your morals are about as low as the sewer.

[Yeagermeister]

And before you ask Yeag, no I have not been to Leavenworth to visit him.

I heard you visit him for lunch every day. :laugh2:

[stealth]

Not sure how he is abusing the system. Filing for bankruptcy protection is SOP when you have a bunch of creditors coming after your assets. This applies to the rich (like Mike) and the poor (like me). Doesn't matter if your morals are about as low as the sewer.

I don't like it when scumbags use the system to their advantage. It's abuse regardless because the whole bankruptcy thing is ridiculous in my opinion.

Yes I am a hypocrite, but at the end of the day I hate truly immoral people.

[big dog cowboy]

I heard you visit him for lunch every day. :laugh2:
To far to commute every day. Then again I wouldn't cross the street to see him.

[Velvet Jones]

But Stealth would cross the street to punch him in the face..

[Sarge]

Honestly I feel bad for Vick. I hope he stays in shape so He can resume his career in the NFL.

I feel sorry for the dogs he killed and the dogs that continue to suffer because of him.......he's a loser.

How anyone can feel sorry for Michael Vick is confounding.

[stealth]

But Stealth would cross the street to punch him in the face..

If it meant I could punch him in the face I would walk miles.

[Brandon]

Maybe he can use some of that money to treat his herpes. I hope this scumbag rots in hell for what he did.

[GimmeTheBall!]

to say I am not a fan of Vick's is a huge understatement.

Yet, I believe in redemption and forgiveness (except to my enemies here!).

The man is serving his time. He's is paying dearly with his life and his riches and perhaps he will emerge a better person.

Certainly, there is no one here who has never sinned. And I hope we all try to give our coworkers, family, friends, etc., a clean slate every day re the humanity scoreboard.

Punish Vick, yes, but I draw the line at kicking him when he is down.
It's not sporting. Not American and certainly not Christian.

Michael, do your time and try to better yourself morally and financially.
Iffin you emerge with a newfound sense of shame and repentance, I say welcome back to the community of mankind. And i hope there will be people around to give you a second chance if your prove you deserve one.

[links18]

I don't like it when scumbags use the system to their advantage. It's abuse regardless because the whole bankruptcy thing is ridiculous in my opinion.

Yes I am a hypocrite, but at the end of the day I hate truly immoral people.

The Constitution specifically gives Congress the power to make laws concerning bankruptcy, indicating the founding fathers wanted there to be a stable system of bankruptcy protection in this country. Why? because most of them were business men who realized they could go belly up at many moment and recongnized that a truly entreprenurial system required that people who are saddled with debt they can't pay back get a reasonable fresh start. Bankruptcy is part of the American capitalist system. Yes, many rich people (you don't mention corporations) use the bankruptcy system to protect their assets, but there would be severe economic consequences for the entire nation if the system were done away with. Just ask the people who can't use bankruptcy to get a fresh start--student loan debtors! Sorry for the rant!

[Nav22]

I wonder how many people in this thread have ever gone hunting.

[Yeagermeister]

To far to commute every day. Then again I wouldn't cross the street to see him.

Let's check the visitor logs :laugh2:

[Big Country]

to say I am not a fan of Vick's is a huge understatement.

Yet, I believe in redemption and forgiveness (except to my enemies here!).

The man is serving his time. He's is paying dearly with his life and his riches and perhaps he will emerge a better person.

Certainly, there is no one here who has never sinned. And I hope we all try to give our coworkers, family, friends, etc., a clean slate every day re the humanity scoreboard.

Punish Vick, yes, but I draw the line at kicking him when he is down.
It's not sporting. Not American and certainly not Christian. Well, maybe christian was not he right word because that sect has killed more people in history than Hitler and Stalin combined. But you get my point.

Michael, do your time and try to better yourself morally and financially.
Iffin you emerge with a newfound sense of shame and repentance, I say welcome back to the community of mankind. And i hope there will be people around to give you a second chance if your prove you deserve one.

Well put!

[stealth]

The Constitution specifically gives Congress the power to make laws concerning bankruptcy, indicating the founding fathers wanted there to be a stable system of bankruptcy protection in this country. Why? because most of them were business men who realized they could go belly up at many moment and recongnized that a truly entreprenurial system required that people who are saddled with debt they can't pay back get a reasonable fresh start. Bankruptcy is part of the American capitalist system. Yes, many rich people (you don't mention corporations) use the bankruptcy system to protect their assets, but there would be severe economic consequences for the entire nation if the system were done away with. Just ask the people who can't use bankruptcy to get a fresh start--student loan debtors! Sorry for the rant!

the constitution is brilliant, the manipulation of it in the years since are what pisses me off.

[Doomsday101]

to say I am not a fan of Vick's is a huge understatement.

Yet, I believe in redemption and forgiveness (except to my enemies here!).

The man is serving his time. He's is paying dearly with his life and his riches and perhaps he will emerge a better person.

Certainly, there is no one here who has never sinned. And I hope we all try to give our coworkers, family, friends, etc., a clean slate every day re the humanity scoreboard.

Punish Vick, yes, but I draw the line at kicking him when he is down.
It's not sporting. Not American and certainly not Christian. Well, maybe christian was not he right word because that sect has killed more people in history than Hitler and Stalin combined. But you get my point.

Michael, do your time and try to better yourself morally and financially.
Iffin you emerge with a newfound sense of shame and repentance, I say welcome back to the community of mankind. And i hope there will be people around to give you a second chance if your prove you deserve one.

Once he does his time then sure however a 2nd chance does not mean in the NFL. I expect some team will take a look but I don't think him returning to the NFL is a sure thing by any means.

[Velvet Jones]

I feel sorry for the dogs he killed and the dogs that continue to suffer because of him.......he's a loser.

How anyone can feel sorry for Michael Vick is confounding.

I will start with that Vick is getting less than what he deserves for the crimes he committed. It should have been an instant ban and a much longer sentence.

That said, I can kind of agree with feeling a tiny bit of sorrow Vick. We (or at least, I) did not grow up as Vick did. Dog fighting, I am sure, was an ever day activity in his life. He probably saw it everywhere. Even knowing it was wrong, it wasn't a great moral wrong because he grew up with it.

I would liken it to a kid growing up swearing because that is all he hears in his house hold. A kid growing up not respecting sex because his mom turns tricks to pay bills. A kid getting into drugs because it is all around him everywhere. Again, none of these are excuses just like Vick's is not... but if I can feel bad for people in that situation, I can feel bad for Vick and his. It isn't the crime / punishment I feel bad for but rather it is the fact that he simply doesn't see it as how great a wrong that it is.

[big dog cowboy]

Let's check the visitor logs :laugh2:
:bang2:


:lmao:

[stealth]

I will start with that Vick is getting less than what he deserves for the crimes he committed. It should have been an instant ban and a much longer sentence.

That said, I can kind of agree with feeling a tiny bit of sorrow Vick. We (or at least, I) did not grow up as Vick did. Dog fighting, I am sure, was an ever day activity in his life. He probably saw it everywhere. Even knowing it was wrong, it wasn't a great moral wrong because he grew up with it.

I would liken it to a kid growing up swearing because that is all he hears in his house hold. A kid growing up not respecting sex because his mom turns tricks to pay bills. A kid getting into drugs because it is all around him everywhere. Again, none of these are excuses just like Vick's is not... but if I can feel bad for people in that situation, I can feel bad for Vick and his. It isn't the crime / punishment I feel bad for but rather it is the fact that he simply doesn't see it as how great a wrong that it is.


I grew up around dogs, and in my late teens was very close to people that were into dog fighting. I mean into it as in they raised dogs specifically for fighting.

Spend a month with a dog, and then watch them die.

Anyone who can do that is evil, just plain evil.

[GimmeTheBall!]

Once he does his time then sure however a 2nd chance does not mean in the NFL. I expect some team will take a look but I don't think him returning to the NFL is a sure thing by any means.

Don't be too hasty. Have you seen some of the sad sack QBs starting for some NFL teams?
I am quite sure that if he gets himself in some sort of fitness proggram and passes a physical, certainly, some team might take a chance.
It will all come down to PETA. if they put the pressure on the NFL, he won't play again. If Vick is smart, he will approach that group, get some forgiveness through volunteer work and then might again be a QB or a WR some day.

[Sarge]

I will start with that Vick is getting less than what he deserves for the crimes he committed. It should have been an instant ban and a much longer sentence.

That said, I can kind of agree with feeling a tiny bit of sorrow Vick. We (or at least, I) did not grow up as Vick did. Dog fighting, I am sure, was an ever day activity in his life. He probably saw it everywhere. Even knowing it was wrong, it wasn't a great moral wrong because he grew up with it.

I would liken it to a kid growing up swearing because that is all he hears in his house hold. A kid growing up not respecting sex because his mom turns tricks to pay bills. A kid getting into drugs because it is all around him everywhere. Again, none of these are excuses just like Vick's is not... but if I can feel bad for people in that situation, I can feel bad for Vick and his. It isn't the crime / punishment I feel bad for but rather it is the fact that he simply doesn't see it as how great a wrong that it is.


Vick knew it was wrong the entire time he did it and that is why he lied about it........it was a choice he made and continued to make over a period of years. Vick was dealt a bad hand, perhaps as a child but was given god given talent and a lot of money and still blew it over a LONG period of time....the guy is a bum...there are a TON of NFL players out there who had it worse than Vick and turned it around. It's all about choices......

[jman]

I wouldnt want to give away all my money either. F the system if you ask Me.

It's called being responsible. You aren't giving it away, you are supossed to take care of your business.

F'ing the system is why people that have good credit have to pay for those that can't keep their end of the bargin.

Oh yeah...screw Vick. Let him get a regular job after prison.

[stealth]

It's called being responsible. You aren't giving it away, you are supossed to take care of your business.

F'ing the system is why people that have good credit have to pay for those that can't keep their end of the bargin.

Oh yeah...screw Vick. Let him get a regular job after prison.


not the place for this convo but I think people with bad credit have zero effect on those of us with good credit. It's all about making more money.

[Velvet Jones]

Vick knew it was wrong the entire time he did it and that is why he lied about it........it was a choice he made and continued to make over a period of years. Vick was dealt a bad hand, perhaps as a child but was given god given talent and a lot of money and still blew it over a LONG period of time....the guy is a bum...there are a TON of NFL players out there who had it worse than Vick and turned it around. It's all about choices......

I understand. I really do. I can only go off of that I can never put myself in his shoes on what he grew up around. He isn't, by any means, a victim but he is a product of his environment. I am not saying that he didn't know things were wrong, but I am saying that his views of how moral it was or wasn't are very askewed. I know it is extremely wrong to beat your wife, but a person from a home and life environment where it was common place may not share with me exactly how wrong it is. He will try to hide it and know it is illegal, but doesn't see the same evil I see in it... and that is sad. I can understand a person growing cold to it and showing no sympathy. I can completely understand that. But that is even more sad to me..

[CrazyCowboy]

He needs a break.....

[yeahyeah]

....all over some stupid mutts.

[Chief]

What a nice investment, Arthur Blank. :laugh2:

Whenever this Vick stuff comes up, I remember how Vick and Blank conspired to run off the only good head coach the Atlanta Falcons have ever had.

Dan Reeves is a decent, honorable man and a very good coach. He deserved better.

Take your medicine boys.

[Maikeru-sama]

to say I am not a fan of Vick's is a huge understatement.

Yet, I believe in redemption and forgiveness (except to my enemies here!).

The man is serving his time. He's is paying dearly with his life and his riches and perhaps he will emerge a better person.

Certainly, there is no one here who has never sinned. And I hope we all try to give our coworkers, family, friends, etc., a clean slate every day re the humanity scoreboard.

Punish Vick, yes, but I draw the line at kicking him when he is down.
It's not sporting. Not American and certainly not Christian.

Michael, do your time and try to better yourself morally and financially.
Iffin you emerge with a newfound sense of shame and repentance, I say welcome back to the community of mankind. And i hope there will be people around to give you a second chance if your prove you deserve one.

:hammer:

Right on the money.

[Sarge]

What a nice investment, Arthur Blank. :laugh2:

Whenever this Vick stuff comes up, I remember how Vick and Blank conspired to run off the only good head coach the Atlanta Falcons have ever had.

Dan Reeves is a decent, honorable man and a very good coach. He deserved better.

Take your medicine boys.

:bow:

[Thanos68]

How is he abusing the system by claiming bankruptcy? What do you want him to do when he doesn't have the money? Anyone in their right mind in his position would claim bankruptcy

[Joe Rod]

What do you want him to do when he doesn't have the money?

Well, according to Stealth, he should go get punched in the face. Maybe if he did a "Punch for Pay" plan, he could work his way out of this instead of stiffing his creditors.

[aikemirv]

Once he does his time then sure however a 2nd chance does not mean in the NFL. I expect some team will take a look but I don't think him returning to the NFL is a sure thing by any means.

I am not sure why he should not get a second chance in the NFL. Football is his profession just like any other person around has a profession. A mistake should not prevent them from returning to their profession. Otherwise Vick probably has no job skills.

Yes he could go to Canada but I am all for him turning his life around and being allowed back in the NFL.

[the kid 05]

Honestly I feel bad for Vick. I hope he stays in shape so He can resume his career in the NFL.

honestly what team will take a guy whos going to have missed 1 year max to possibly 2 THEN he has his suspension form Sheriff Goodell and he has to work his rust off but then again all he did was run so i'm sure hes doing alot of that in Prison from bubba

[Yeagermeister]

I am not sure why he should not get a second chance in the NFL. Football is his profession just like any other person around has a profession. A mistake should not prevent them from returning to their profession. Otherwise Vick probably has no job skills.

Yes he could go to Canada but I am all for him turning his life around and being allowed back in the NFL.

I hope he never steps foot an NFL field again. He can go play in the CFL or AFL.

[RW Hitman]

I wouldnt want to give away all my money either. F the system if you ask Me.

well then don't spend what you don't have..... that much money then going broke is just stupidity

[aikemirv]

I understand. I really do. I can only go off of that I can never put myself in his shoes on what he grew up around. He isn't, by any means, a victim but he is a product of his environment. I am not saying that he didn't know things were wrong, but I am saying that his views of how moral it was or wasn't are very askewed. I know it is extremely wrong to beat your wife, but a person from a home and life environment where it was common place may not share with me exactly how wrong it is. He will try to hide it and know it is illegal, but doesn't see the same evil I see in it... and that is sad. I can understand a person growing cold to it and showing no sympathy. I can completely understand that. But that is even more sad to me..


But that is OK, you can beat your wife, drive drunk, risking the life of innocent "people" but that is not worse than dogfigting, I guess, to many on this board:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Doomsday101]

I am not sure why he should not get a second chance in the NFL. Football is his profession just like any other person around has a profession. A mistake should not prevent them from returning to their profession. Otherwise Vick probably has no job skills.

Yes he could go to Canada but I am all for him turning his life around and being allowed back in the NFL.

I'm sure someone will bring him in but a 2nd chance in life does not necessarily mean a 2nd chance in the NFL. It is not a god given right to play in the NFL and make millions. He made a choice and now he has to live with it. Some team may give him a chance or not and even if they do the guy was not a great QB to begin with he was a runner who played QB who still needed a lot or work to refine his skill and who is not getting the chance to refine them in prison. I do find it strange though that when people say a 2nd chance that means the players should be given back the same life as he had before like nothing ever happened. I think a 2nd chance is having a second chance for freedom and being able to come back to the community

[aikemirv]

I'm sure someone will bring him in but a 2nd chance in life does not necessarily mean a 2nd chance in the NFL. It is not a god given right to play in the NFL and make millions. He made a choice and now he has to live with it. Some team may give him a chance or not and even if they do the guy was not a great QB to begin with he was a runner who played QB who still needed a lot or work to refine his skill and who is not getting the chance to refine them in prison. I do find it strange though that when people say a 2nd chance that means the players should be given back the same life as he had before like nothing ever happened. I think a 2nd chance is having a second chance for freedom and being able to come back to the community


It is not your God given right to do any profession . The fact is you chose it and worked at it like I did and that is what we do. The NFL is a buisness with criminals in it now and over the years. Wife beaters, drunk drivers and so forth. Dog fighting is somehow on a different level as to not allow him back in - I just don't see that at all!

[5Stars]

I am not sure why he should not get a second chance in the NFL. Football is his profession just like any other person around has a profession. A mistake should not prevent them from returning to their profession. Otherwise Vick probably has no job skills.

Yes he could go to Canada but I am all for him turning his life around and being allowed back in the NFL.


Profession? Prevent them from returning to their profession?

Tell that to some professional that has been sent to prison and comes out a convicted felon to try and go back to the same profession!

Vick has a long road to travel before all this is over. After his prison time is over, it's not "back to normal" for him. I pity the sucker...

[joseephuss]

What a nice investment, Arthur Blank. :laugh2:

Whenever this Vick stuff comes up, I remember how Vick and Blank conspired to run off the only good head coach the Atlanta Falcons have ever had.

Dan Reeves is a decent, honorable man and a very good coach. He deserved better.

Take your medicine boys.

I didn't know that Vick conspired to run off Reeves. I don't follow them that close, so that is the first I heard of that. I did know that Blank did not like Reeves. I don't think the GM liked Reeves, either.

[Doomsday101]

It is not your God given right to do any profession . The fact is you chose it and worked at it like I did and that is what we do. The NFL is a buisness with criminals in it now and over the years. Wife beaters, drunk drivers and so forth. Dog fighting is somehow on a different level as to not allow him back in - I just don't see that at all!

As I said I think some team will bring him in but that does not mean any team will feel he can help them given the time away from the game. He was not a great QB to start with, I think any chance at all will mean a change of position. Face it Vick skills as a QB was coming under fire more and more and if not for the ability to run he would not be worth a damn at the position. I do think some team will take a look but that does not mean a team will sign him nor should they unless they feel he can help.

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

I wonder how many people in this thread have ever gone hunting.



I have been on this board long enough to know that your comment will be ignored. Typical. And to stealth. If Mike Vick was standing at your front door at this very moment you wouldn't do anything but call the cops. relax

[Goldenrichards83]

to say I am not a fan of Vick's is a huge understatement.

Yet, I believe in redemption and forgiveness (except to my enemies here!).

The man is serving his time. He's is paying dearly with his life and his riches and perhaps he will emerge a better person.

Certainly, there is no one here who has never sinned. And I hope we all try to give our coworkers, family, friends, etc., a clean slate every day re the humanity scoreboard.

Punish Vick, yes, but I draw the line at kicking him when he is down.
It's not sporting. Not American and certainly not Christian.

Michael, do your time and try to better yourself morally and financially.
Iffin you emerge with a newfound sense of shame and repentance, I say welcome back to the community of mankind. And i hope there will be people around to give you a second chance if your prove you deserve one.Great post.

[Goldenrichards83]

I grew up around dogs, and in my late teens was very close to people that were into dog fighting. I mean into it as in they raised dogs specifically for fighting.

Spend a month with a dog, and then watch them die.

Anyone who can do that is evil, just plain evil.Just curious, have you track down those people you were very close with and punch them in their face?

[Maikeru-sama]

It is not your God given right to do any profession . The fact is you chose it and worked at it like I did and that is what we do. The NFL is a buisness with criminals in it now and over the years. Wife beaters, drunk drivers and so forth. Dog fighting is somehow on a different level as to not allow him back in - I just don't see that at all!

:hammer:

ESPN did a great piece on Leonard Little and the husband of the wife he killed will driving drunk a few years back. I believe he has also had 2 or more citations for driving under the influences since then.

As you stated, the NFL is a business and just like most businesses, their goal is to turn a profit.

If Michael Vick pays his debt to society and the decision makers in the NFL (not the people on this board) see fit to re-instate the guy, there shouldn't be any reason why he can't pull himself up by his bootstraps and take the opportunity and run with it.

I could care less what he does one way or the other, but I won't sit here say the guy shouldn't get another chance.

He just needs to make sure he checks the part of the application where it asks you if you have been convicted of a felony :D .

[5Stars]

I wonder how many people in this thread have ever gone hunting.


I have (raises hand)...!

I go hunting to kill dogs everyday! It be some fun stuff, dog! Wanna go wit me?

[Sarge]

But that is OK, you can beat your wife, drive drunk, risking the life of innocent "people" but that is not worse than dogfigting, I guess, to many on this board:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Let's be honest here, if you get home after a hard day's work and dinner is not ready right away, I dunno........perhaps a smack in the ol' ladies ear ain't so bad.

...or let's say, you're sick, so the wife has to mow the lawn and she does it so the stripes aren't going the right way, ya know.... perhaps a light roundhouse to the side of her head might be appropriate.

Further, let's say you're at a bar, and Dallas is getting the tar kicked outta them by the Redskins, of course you're gonna drink you're face off, that's the rule. It wouldn't be YOUR fault for driving home drunk. Besides, your idiot wife should have offered you a ride home to begin with. So in reality, you can drive drunk and smack your wife in the head in the same day.

So you see folks - it's not that black and white.

There is NO EXCUSE however to kill dogs.

[5Stars]

Let's be honest here, if you get home after a hard day's work and dinner is not ready right away, I dunno........perhaps a smack in the ol' ladies ear ain't so bad.

...or let's say, you're sick, so the wife has to mow the lawn and she does it so the stripes aren't going the right way, ya know.... perhaps a light roundhouse to the side of her head might be appropriate.

Further, let's say you're at a bar, and Dallas is getting the tar kicked outta them by the Redskins, of course you're gonna drink you're face off, that's the rule. It wouldn't be YOUR fault for driving home drunk. Besides, your idiot wife should have offered you a ride home to begin with. So in reality, you can drive drunk and smack your wife in the head in the same day.

So you see folks - it's not that black and white.

There is NO EXCUSE however to kill dogs.


:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:


Five Laughs, Sarge!


What do you tell a woman wit two black eyes?

Nothin! You done told her twice!!

[DallasCowpoke]

I wonder how many people in this thread have ever gone hunting.

Does it hurt your head when statements this stupid leak out?

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

Does it hurt your head when statements this stupid leak out?


What is so stupid about it sir? Do tell

[5Stars]

What is so stupid about it sir? Do tell


I won't speak for DallasCowpoke, but, Nav22 is equating hunting to killing dogs...clear now?

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

I won't speak for DallasCowpoke, but, Nav22 is equating hunting to killing dogs...clear now?

Hunting as in killing deer, birds, etc????? What is it? Because a dog is mans best friend makes it worse to kill them as opposed to another animal? Or is it because dog fighting is illegal?

If people are in such disgust over Mike Vick the person because he did something illegal than there must be a long list of people who you guys feel the same about. But apart of me thinks we have hypocrites in the thread with agendas. Thats just my opinion :D

[Sarge]

Hunting as in killing deer, birds, etc????? What is it? Because a dog is mans best friend makes it worse to kill them as opposed to another animal? Or is it because dog fighting is illegal?


Uh......ya, that would be it.... :rolleyes:

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

Uh......ya, that would be it


Oh so because its illegal hes a horrible person? I see. :rolleyes:

[Sarge]

Oh so because its illegal hes a horrible person? I see. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you can point out where I said he was a horrible person.

[DallasCowpoke]

Hunting as in killing deer, birds, etc????? What is it? Because a dog is mans best friend makes it worse to kill them as opposed to another animal? Or is it because dog fighting is illegal?

Actually, it's much simpler. I don't EAT dogs!!

NOTHING I've ever "killed", has gone unconsumed. And 75% of that total was consumed "snout-to-hoof".

[5Stars]

Oh so because its illegal hes a horrible person? I see. :rolleyes:


So...the people that hunt for food (not dogs) are horrible, too!

:laugh2:


This Merry-Go-Round has been tossed out there before...

So, excuse me now, I must go feed my seeing eye deer....

[Sarge]

So...the people that hunt for food (not dogs) are horrible, too!

:laugh2:


This Merry-Go-Round has been tossed out there before...

So, excuse me now, I must go feed my seeing eye deer....

It's actually pretty frightening that some don't see the difference between hunting which is legal and dogfighting which is not.....you don't have to agree with it, but it's the LAW - ask Michael Vick.

[5Stars]

It's actually pretty frightening that some don't see the difference between hunting which is legal and dogfighting which is not.....you don't have to agree with it, but it's the LAW - ask Michael Vick.


I pity those fools....!


Hell, I pity me!!



:eek:

[jackrussell]

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/308048/2/istockphoto_308048_screw.jpg

http://www.churchsoundstore.com/images/Shure-PG58-vocal-microphone.jpg

http://www.vicks.com/images/3.0_VapoRub/3.1_product.jpg

[CowboysFan73]

I have no sympathy for Vick at all. He's getting what he deserves.

[burmafrd]

Product of his environment. Total BS. Why did he hide it if he thought it was not wrong? Oh, just because its against the law of course.
Vick is a scumbag and deserves everything he gets.
And true there is hypocrisy in the NFL because other people who have done bad are still playing. That is just as wrong.

[Avenging Hayseed]

Lets get this out of the way right away..........Mike Vicks own LACK OF TALENT is what will keep him out of the NFL, not the dog fighting. Even though I do in fact feel dogfighting is some pretty lowlife hillbilly stuff. Look at the QB rankings over his career. This guy has ZERO. Romo has more talent in the sweat that drips off his backside than Vick has in his whole body. Vick a QB????PFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTT........Please! I guess if you think being like the 28th rated passer is talent!....LMAO. Guys a bum, always was. always will be. He was LUCKY to find himself a guy like Blank, he blew it, he will eventually end up with Jack because he was too DUMB to take advantage of the opportunity he was GIVEN.

[Redskins2008]

bankruptcy is a scam to keep most of your wealth when you see it all going away.

9 times out of 10 I don't hate on those people, they got in over their head and need a way out. Mike Vick though is a scumbag abusing the system. If I ever meet him I will punch him in the face.


I got $200 on Mike vick winning

[Avenging Hayseed]

Numbers dont lie. Mike Vick is a career 75.7 passer. That makes him one of the worst starting QB's in the NFL over the coarce of his career. He also typically had a PALTRY yards per attempt number, usually in the 6's and 5's.....LMAO, Pathetic. Like I posted earlier, his lack of talent more than anything will keep him from competing against the legit QB's. Vick was exposed LONG AGO for what he always was,...a ghost, mirage, a media invention....

[Avenging Hayseed]

Dont feel too bad though Vick fans. Lots of other dummies fell for it too. On a positive note.....Arthur Blank sure did make an awefull lot of money off of you guys though. Um, HINT HINT, wink wink.....THAT was the goal all along........;)

[Avenging Hayseed]

Lastly....I get the biggest kick out of these folks who compare hunting to DOG FIGHTING!....:lmao2:Listen, If you dont know the difference between a quick kill from a high powered rifle, where the animal suffers as little as possible, and the animals meat is used for food, .............and two dogs slowly ripping each other to DEATH, so some broke scumbag can bet 20 bucks on the outcome...........then YOU are already too far gone and myself nor anyone else should waste their time explaining the difference to you.

[Velvet Jones]

Product of his environment. Total BS. Why did he hide it if he thought it was not wrong? Oh, just because its against the law of course.
Vick is a scumbag and deserves everything he gets.
And true there is hypocrisy in the NFL because other people who have done bad are still playing. That is just as wrong.

What?!? I am not trying to be rude but did you seriously think this post out? He hid it because it was illegal, yes. No der! There are tons of things illegal in my state that I do anyway. Has anyone checked out their states outdate laws?? Lol! :cool: Have you driven home after one beer? Have you tossed the smallest amount of trash out of a window? Have you eaten a grape while in a grocery store? Have you tipped less than 10% at any time?

Isn't there a person on our team that slept with a minor? A person who was convicted of the crime? Didn't Deion skip out on a car bill because told him not to pay it?

So what makes it horrible?

Because it was illegal? No, because we have people on our team we are pulling for with their second chances. We even just put our WR in the HoF when he has had 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances for his illegal activities. We are now cheering for a guy that has been arrested 6 times in two years or something like that. But he has paid his debt so blah blah blah.
Because it is an animal? No, hunting has been rulled out.
Because it was wrong? I doubt it. I am sure we all partake in our own personal levels of wrong as stated above.
Because it was a domestic animal? I guess the difference is life style like I have stated before. I know plenty people that have no problem using a 12 cent solution for their own dog that has tried to bite them.
Because it was cruel and unusual? Yeah, that is what does it for me.
Because a ton of us feel he was overrated so we are wanting to see him fall as fast as possible? That is a good possibility.

[DallasEast]

Michael Vick -

Consciously created the Bad News Kennels dogfighting operation for profit and enjoyment
Knowingly bankrolled the illegal operation for years
Willingly and personally slaughtered a minimum of six dogs while conducting the federally unlawful act by means of electrocution, drowning, hanging and/or other meansHe was correctly (and somewhat leniently according to my novice interpretation of federal sentencing guidelines) sentenced to nearly two years in federal prison.

Facts. If any American citizen doesn't like it, help...

Change

The

Law

Otherwise, if you or anyone else commits the same illegal act and gets caught, you too will be going to the federal pen.

Simple. 100% lawful. End of story.

Now (I wish :rolleyes: ), the only true remaining debate is what will happen to Vick's professional football career. Goodell's on record for stating that Vick's ability to return to the NFL will be evaluated after the legal process has ended.

Vick was facing two Virginia dogfighting offenses which are each punishable up to five years each. If convicted of one or both crimes, he would transfer to state prison after his federal sentence concludes and could be incarcerated up to ten years. What ever happened to the state trial? I know that it got delayed last April. Has it been rescheduled?

In before the thread is closed. :D

[Velvet Jones]

Michael Vick -

Consciously created the Bad News Kennels dogfighting operation for profit and enjoyment
Knowingly bankrolled the illegal operation for years
Willingly and personally slaughtered a minimum of six dogs while conducting the federally unlawful act by means of electrocution, drowning, hanging and/or other meansHe was correctly (and somewhat leniently according to my novice interpretation of federal sentencing guidelines) sentenced to nearly two years in federal prison.

Facts. If any American citizen doesn't like it, help...

Change

The

Law

Otherwise, if you or anyone else commits the same illegal act and gets caught, you too will be going to the federal pen.

Simple. 100% lawful. End of story.


Awesome post!! Except the point isn't if it is illegal, it is if one should feel sorry for him :D

[FanSince61]

His state trial is on hold until he is out of federal prison

http://www.charlottesvillenewsplex.tv/news/headlines/19765239.html

[DallasEast]

Awesome post!! Except the point isn't if it is illegal, it is if one should feel sorry for him :DIt is the point. No one should feel sorry for someone who knowingly committed a crime of this type. Human beings are compassionate by nature and sometimes ignorant by choice. Fundamental difference.

His state trial is on hold until he is out of federal prison

http://www.charlottesvillenewsplex.tv/news/headlines/19765239.htmlThanks!

[joseephuss]

Why should anyone feel sorry for Vick? Or Pacman? Or Tank? Or Leonard Little? You can feel compassion for someone and think that everyone deserves a second chance. I don't think that is the same as feeling sorry for them. Little has already abused his second chance and since in the first one he killed someone I have no compassion for him.

[Velvet Jones]

It is the point. No one should feel sorry for someone who knowingly committed a crime of this type. Human beings are compassionate by nature and sometimes ignorant by choice. Fundamental difference.

We just disagree. Living here in Maryland with the snipings, I can feel sorry for the son being raised thinking that is the right way to do things. Compassion is what makes us human. Blind compassion is something different.


Why should anyone feel sorry for Vick? Or Pacman? Or Tank? Or Leonard Little?..

Or why should anyone not feel sorry? Remember, the debate started because someone stated that they felt bad for him and then people didn't care for that, not the other way around. I can understand why people don't feel sorry. I don't agree, but I can understand.

[joseephuss]

We just disagree. Living here in Maryland with the snipings, I can feel sorry for the son being raised thinking that is the right way to do things. Compassion is what makes us human. Blind compassion is something different.




Or why should anyone not feel sorry? Remember, the debate started because someone stated that they felt bad for him and then people didn't care for that, not the other way around. I can understand why people don't feel sorry. I don't agree, but I can understand.

I have no problems if someone feels sorry for Vick. It is not a character flaw. I don't feel sorry for him. He will get his second chance. He probably won't do much with it. It is just difficult to sit out of the game for a year or two and come back and do well. Especially at the QB position. Especially when he was not a great QB to begin with.

[Velvet Jones]

I definitely doubt he will be back in the NFL. No team will want him and the NFL won't make money on him anymore. He was a marketing QB that was only "that good" because everyone on ESPN said "how good" he was... over and over and over again. No one will buy his jerseys and no companies will want him promoting anything of theirs. I truely believe he is done with the NFL and rightfully so.

[Brandon]

How hunting relates to dog fighting is beyond me.

I don't hunt, never have never will. But I've talked with hunters before and there is a "humane" way to kill a deer, etc, so they die within seconds of getting hit with the bullet. Dog Fighting, there is no human way, these animals get tortured and fight their entire lives.

Electricuting dogs or shooting a deer in the head....it doesn't seem to match.

But whatever, looking at the past posts of the who made the statement doesn't surprise me.

[burmafrd]

Anyone who tries to defend dog fighting is frankly from Mars and needs to go back there right away.

[Referee]

I am torn based on his crime... Unforgivable!

I am also saddened to see any man who had it all! More than many of us can imagine, get subjected to sheer utter humiliation and then lose everything including personal freedom, because of what??? Stupidity, ignorance and greed and other homeboy influences of evil proportions.

This is another American made tragedy.

[DallasEast]

We just disagree. Living here in Maryland with the snipings, I can feel sorry for the son being raised thinking that is the right way to do things. Compassion is what makes us human. Blind compassion is something different.We more than disagree.

At some point in his life, Michael Vick was faced with a choice.

He could start, finance, interact, profit and enjoy an illegal dogfighting operation, which he was fully aware could result in some form of legal prosecution.

OR

Invested in something totally different and without legal consequences.

He chose the former.

Now, if Vick had been conditioned by his childhood to believe that dogfighting was legal, I could possibly feel some sympathy for him. People should feel compassion for the mentally ill. However, all of his actions indicate that he was fully aware that he was conducting an illegal operation. In other words, he knowingly broke the law for a crime that he had zero justification breaking whatsoever. I will not feel pity for someone torturing animals for pleasure and profit.

...actually, I do feel something for Vick. Anger. The more I think about him getting more time for doing something he could have avoided as easily as breathing--the more I chuckle. He's proving that old saying is so true. Payback's a

Dammit. I'm chuckling again. :mad:

[Velvet Jones]

In other words, he knowingly broke the law for a crime that he had zero justification breaking whatsoever. I will not feel pity for someone torturing animals for pleasure and profit.

So which is it? He broke the law or the degree of which he broke the law. Maybe the debate will work better if people stop trying to infer that I believe Vick was justified or that "he does not deserve to be punished."

Guys; Vick broke the law. He deserves to be punished. Stop debating as if I do not believe this or that anyone here believes differently.

[GimmeTheBall!]

We more than disagree.

At some point in his life, Michael Vick was faced with a choice.

He could start, finance, interact, profit and enjoy an illegal dogfighting operation, which he was fully aware could result in some form of legal prosecution.

OR

Invested in something totally different and without legal consequences.

He chose the former.

Now, if Vick had been conditioned by his childhood to believe that dogfighting was legal, I could possibly feel some sympathy for him. People should feel compassion for the mentally ill. However, all of his actions indicate that he was fully aware that he was conducting an illegal operation. In other words, he knowingly broke the law for a crime that he had zero justification breaking whatsoever. I will not feel pity for someone torturing animals for pleasure and profit.

...actually, I do feel something for Vick. Anger. The more I think about him getting more time for doing something he could have avoided as easily as breathing--the more I chuckle. He's proving that old saying is so true. Payback's a

Dammit. I'm chuckling again. :mad:

When Vick was finally brought to justice, I toasted Madame Justice (who is not blind) with a Shiner Bock.

That Vick did something LEGALLY wrong is not the issue.
He is being punished.
What I also don't like is the seeming glee that some have about his misfortunes.
Only the truly weak or cowardly would enjoy kicking a man (or dog) while he is down.
Laws and what generate them are truly subjective.
In the U.S., dogfighting and cockfighting are illegal.
In the U.S., boxing (even for kids) is legal.
So is rodeo, which subjects animals to all kinds of cruelty. (Oh, it doesn't hurt the steers when they are roped by the neck; let someone try it on you).
Traditional bullfighting is illegal here, though I have no problem with it.
Oh, yes, in the U.S. putting people to death (in prisons) is legal. Something that is abhorrent to those in countries in which bullfighting and dog fighting are legal and which we choose to criticize.
Our sense and sensibilities are no better or worse than other countries or other cultures or other lifestyles.
We pick and choose our laws and we are obliged to live by them.
We can argue forever what is moral or immoral.

Vick IS being punished. To jump at glee and rub our hands AND chuckle over his misfortunes are a bit sadistic and juvenile.

Let us act like men. Like Americans. And remember that there for the grace of god . . . .

:mad:

[DallasEast]

So which is it? He broke the law or the degree of which he broke the law.Both.
Maybe the debate will work better if people stop trying to infer that I believe Vick was justified or that "he does not deserve to be punished."Debate? There is no 'debate'. Vick was convicted of a crime and he doesn't deserve compassion for knowingly commiting that crime.
Guys; Vick broke the law. He deserves to be punished. Stop debating as if I do not believe this or that anyone here believes differently.I'm not speaking for anyone else. Again, Vick broke a law for absolutely no reason whatsoever. If there is a 'debate' about feeling sorry for Vick because of that fact, there is essentially no 'debate'.
When Vick was finally brought to justice, I toasted Madame Justice (who is not blind) with a Shiner Bock.

That Vick did something LEGALLY wrong is not the issue.
He is being punished.Some would say that he isn't being punished enough. However, he does have to face state criminal charges, so it all balances out in the end.What I also don't like is the seeming glee that some have about his misfortunes.You may be misinterpreting base satisfaction for glee.
Only the truly weak or cowardly would enjoy kicking a man (or dog) while he is down.Oh please. Vick placed himself in his current predicament. The only victim here are dogs, not some multimillionaire with a sadistic animalistic streak. Talk about melodrama...
Laws and what generate them are truly subjective.The law is just. Next...In the U.S., dogfighting and cockfighting are illegal.duh.
In the U.S., boxing (even for kids) is legal.The ball has been hit deep into left field!!! It's going way back! Back back back! It's... curves foul.So is rodeo, which subjects animals to all kinds of cruelty. (Oh, it doesn't hurt the steers when they are roped by the neck; let someone try it on you).This analogy only works if the animals involved are tortured into being maimed or killed. If not, it fails miserably.Traditional bullfighting is illegal here, though I have no problem with it.Are you sure??? Maybe if you picture Vick as a matador, you'll change your opinion.Oh, yes, in the U.S. putting people to death (in prisons) is legal.Will Vick be getting the needle???!!!11! You've introduced the concept of capital punishment. For what reason? Are you equating what Vick did to capital punishment for dogs? Are you stating that since capital punishment is wrong, torturing, maiming and killing dogs should be less punishable? What? Another drive hit deep... Something that is abhorrent to those in countries in which bullfighting and dog fighting are legal and which we choose to criticize.Criticism isn't bound by borders and justifiable criticism is even less so.Our sense and sensibilities are no better or worse than other countries or other cultures or other lifestyles.The human race is vast in its diversity. Morality is an integral component of humanity. We use that part of our selves to govern our choices of conduct. Do we always get it right? Nope. Do we always get it wrong? Nope. Do we sometimes get it right? Sure, and in Vick's case, we certainly didn't get it wrong.We pick and choose our laws and we are obliged to live by them.You forgot, "and feel sorry for those who don't require it".We can argue forever what is moral or immoral.Yep. What Vick (and people like him) did knowingly was immoral and for some unfathomable reason, people wish to 'argue' about expressing compassion for his sake. Why? Stay tuned.Vick IS being punished. To jump at glee and rub our hands AND chuckle over his misfortunes are a bit sadistic and juvenile.It's doubtful that anyone's 'jumping with glee'. It's equally doubtful that anyone's 'rubbing their hands'. Now, if you wish to label me sadistic and juvenile for chuckling over the fact that Vick is not getting exactly what he deserves in my opinion, since I believe that he received a lighter-than-mandated federal sentence, be my guest. However, some people equate the word 'sadistic' with electrocuting, hanging, etc., dogs. Others equate the word with the act of chuckling. Some people live atop 50,000 radio broadcast towers pretending to be Edward R. Murrow. Others live with their feet firmly planted on the ground. That's life as we know it on planet earth, but the 'juvenile' part is interesting. While it's 'juvenile' to feel satisfaction that the U.S. justice system actually got something right, it's 'mature' for some to think that a person who purposely electrocuted, hung, etc., etc., dogs for absolutely zero, remotely conceivable motivation should be pitied. hmm...Let us act like men.And sane. And realistic. And let's fight that inner demon which compels every single one of us to torture dogs to death every waking moment for kicks. Like Vick! Like Americans.Which Americans? Those of us outside of prison for not commiting crimes? Or those who we should feel sorry for those justifiably convicted of crimes which were motivated solely by greed and pleasure? Just asking.And remember that there for the grace of god . . . . ...you can be human enough to not kill for greed and pleasure alone. Good one.:mad:Turn that frown upside down! Turn that radio mike off and love a dog! Today!

I love cats, not dogs. Defending dogs is becoming somewhat nauseating. :puke:

[stealth]

did someone just spend that much time on gimme?

[DallasEast]

did someone just spend that much time on gimme?
Don't say, "ON gimme", for pete's sake! Say something like, "did someone just spend that much time replying to gimme". eww. I feel as icky as a dog killer now.

:)