PFT: Giants could get 1st rounder for Shockey

[WoodysGirl]

GIANTS COULD GET A FIRST-ROUNDER FOR SHOCKEY
Posted by Mike Florio on July 22, 2008, 8:31 p.m.
Several astute readers have pointed out that the Saints’ attempt to trade a second-round pick in 2009 to the Giants for tight end Jeremy Shockey could be hampered by the trade through which the Saints acquired linebacker Jonathan Vilma from the Jets.

Under the trade between the Jets and the Saints, New Orleans will be required to cough up a second-round pick if Vilma participates in 85 percent of the defensive snaps this season, and if the Saints sign Vilma to a contract extension.

So how could the Saints send a potential second-rounder to the Jets and an actual second-rounder to the Giants.

Per Tom Rock of Newsday, the Giants would get the Saints’ first-round pick if the Jets get the second-rounder. If the Giants get the first-round pick, the Saints’ fifth-rounder falls out of the Shockey deal.

[Boysboy]

GIANTS COULD GET A FIRST-ROUNDER FOR SHOCKEY
Posted by Mike Florio on July 22, 2008, 8:31 p.m.
Several astute readers have pointed out that the Saints’ attempt to trade a second-round pick in 2009 to the Giants for tight end Jeremy Shockey could be hampered by the trade through which the Saints acquired linebacker Jonathan Vilma from the Jets.

Under the trade between the Jets and the Saints, New Orleans will be required to cough up a second-round pick if Vilma participates in 85 percent of the defensive snaps this season, and if the Saints sign Vilma to a contract extension.

So how could the Saints send a potential second-rounder to the Jets and an actual second-rounder to the Giants.

Per Tom Rock of Newsday, the Giants would get the Saints’ first-round pick if the Jets get the second-rounder. If the Giants get the first-round pick, the Saints’ fifth-rounder falls out of the Shockey deal.

Which is why the Giants SHOULD have accepted the offer on draft day.

Oh well-good for us!

[peplaw06]

Well expect Vilma to play 84.9% of the snaps this season.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

so this year were rooting against the browns and lions and rooting for the panthers and saints

[Displaced Cowboy]

anyone know a site that has # or % of snaps played for defensive players?

curious to see what the likelihood of vilma is of attaining that mark.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

curious to see what the likelihood of vilma is of attaining that mark.

hes a complete player, so if hes healthy he should. But thats a big "if" bc of the number the 3-4 did on him

im sure Adam knows

[peplaw06]

anyone know a site that has # or % of snaps played for defensive players?

curious to see what the likelihood of vilma is of attaining that mark.I'm sure the odds are slim and none.

The Saints know about this. If they have to give up a first round pick if Vilma plays 85% of the defensive snaps, then he will be held out of meaningless downs, placed on injured lists every week, and will sit if there's a meaningless game.

They aren't going to give up a first when they don't have to.

[Boysboy]

so this year were rooting against the browns and lions and rooting for the panthers and saints

Rooting for the Panthers is meaningless-Eagles either draft linemen in the 1st round or just trade out of there altogether.

[ninja]

Under the trade between the Jets and the Saints, New Orleans will be required to cough up a second-round pick if Vilma participates in 85 percent of the defensive snaps this season, and if the Saints sign Vilma to a contract extension.

"and if the Saints sign Vilma to a contract extension"

Even if Vilma plays 85% of the time the Saints aren't going to extend him.

[Boysboy]

I'm sure the odds are slim and none.

The Saints know about this. If they have to give up a first round pick if Vilma plays 85% of the defensive snaps, then he will be held out of meaningless downs, placed on injured lists every week, and will sit if there's a meaningless game.

They aren't going to give up a first when they don't have to.

Yep-while Mark Simoneau can't shed blocks worth a crap, he's still a very good nickel LB(a strong blitzer and very good in coverage).

I expect the Saints to take Vilma out and put in Simoneau on obvious passing downs.

[AdamJT13]

There were 43 linebackers who played at least 85 percent of their team's defensive snaps last season --

Kirk Morrison
Patrick Willis
Brian Urlacher
Keith Bulluck
Bart Scott
D.J. Williams
Will Witherspoon
Keith Brooking
London Fletcher
Kamerion Wimbley
James Farrior
Derrick Johnson
David Thornton
E.J. Henderson
Calvin Pace
Thomas Howard
DeMarcus Ware
Antonio Pierce
Joey Porter
DeMeco Ryans
Lofa Tatupu
Ernie Sims
Omar Gaither
Stephen Cooper
Thomas Davis
Terrell Suggs
Michael Boley
Julian Peterson
Angelo Crowell
Nick Barnett
Scott Fujita
Mike Vrabel
Morlon Greenwood
A.J. Hawk
Clark Haggans
Jon Beason
James Harrison
Barrett Ruud
Daryl Smith
Gerald Hayes
Gary Brackett
John DiGiorgio
Lance Briggs

[Boysboy]

There were 43 linebackers who played at least 85 percent of their team's defensive snaps last season --

Kirk Morrison
Patrick Willis
Brian Urlacher
Keith Bulluck
Bart Scott
D.J. Williams
Will Witherspoon
Keith Brooking
London Fletcher
Kamerion Wimbley
James Farrior
Derrick Johnson
David Thornton
E.J. Henderson
Calvin Pace
Thomas Howard
DeMarcus Ware
Antonio Pierce
Joey Porter
DeMeco Ryans
Lofa Tatupu
Ernie Sims
Omar Gaither
Stephen Cooper
Thomas Davis
Terrell Suggs
Michael Boley
Julian Peterson
Angelo Crowell
Nick Barnett
Scott Fujita
Mike Vrabel
Morlon Greenwood
A.J. Hawk
Clark Haggans
Jon Beason
James Harrison
Barrett Ruud
Daryl Smith
Gerald Hayes
Gary Brackett
John DiGiorgio
Lance Briggs

Interesting-pretty much the only starters that didn't make the list are the ones that had injuries(i.e. Rooselvelt Colvin).

BTW-is there a web site of all the other positions where they played 85% of the snaps or more?

[AdamJT13]

BTW-is there a web site of all the other positions where they played 85% of the snaps or more?

No, playing-time percentages aren't made available to the public.

[theogt]

Interesting-pretty much the only starters that didn't make the list are the ones that had injuries(i.e. Rooselvelt Colvin).

BTW-is there a web site of all the other positions where they played 85% of the snaps or more?Or those that are taken out on passing downs.

[CrazyCowboy]

wow....that is a lot to give up.

[Vintage]

Well expect Vilma to play 84.9% of the snaps this season.


Eh.... I am betting he could play well more than that, if he's healthy.

[Romo2Dez4six]

wasn't Shockey a first rounder. he has been to 4 pro bowls in his six years and to me is a very good TE.

you guys go ahead and reem me, but i liked Shockey at the U before he was a giant

[Rackat]

wow....that is a lot to give up.
Yeah, it is. I hope it is not worth it.

[big dog cowboy]

you guys go ahead and reem me, but i liked Shockey at the U before he was a giant
I'm a U fan so I liked him also.

On draft day everything kinda went to heck.

[peplaw06]

Eh.... I am betting he could play well more than that, if he's healthy.I'm sure he COULD. But he doesn't gain anything if he does. The only one that gains something would be the NYFG. The Saints won't be holding him out so he doesn't meet incentives in his contract. They'll hold him out so they don't lose a first rounder.

Weird how two separate trades can turn out like this... Was this an oversight on their part or what?

[BAZ]

I'm sure he COULD. But he doesn't gain anything if he does. The only one that gains something would be the NYFG. The Saints won't be holding him out so he doesn't meet incentives in his contract. They'll hold him out so they don't lose a first rounder.

Weird how two separate trades can turn out like this... Was this an oversight on their part or what?

No way I can believe they would old him out if the team is doing well. Late in the season, if they are making a playoff run and fighting for some advantage, you think they would really haul him off the pitch to save the pick? I don't.

Like someone else pointed out, if they don't want to lose the pick that bad, don't extend the contract.

[dallasfaniac]

Found this on the Jets board:

According to Newsday’s Tom Rock, the Jets will receive the Saints second-round pick in 2009 if Jonathan Vilma signs a contract extension and plays more than 85% of the defensive snaps and for the team this upcoming season. If the criteria is not met, the Jets will then receive a third-round pick and the Giants will get their original second and fifth-round picks. Now if the Jets do receive the Saints second-round pick in 2009, the original Shockey trade changes and the Giants will then receive a 2010 first-round draft pick, rather than a second and fifth-round pick in 2009.

Rock’s source tells him…

“That’s not going to happen because the Saints hold all the cards, and they’re not going to just give away that first rounder when they really don’t have to.”

[Vintage]

I'm sure he COULD. But he doesn't gain anything if he does. The only one that gains something would be the NYFG. The Saints won't be holding him out so he doesn't meet incentives in his contract. They'll hold him out so they don't lose a first rounder.

Weird how two separate trades can turn out like this... Was this an oversight on their part or what?


I mean....it says he has to play 85% of his snaps AND get a contract extension....


Guess which one the Saints won't do.

[peplaw06]

I mean....it says he has to play 85% of his snaps AND get a contract extension....


Guess which one the Saints won't do.I realize it says that. But the Saints traded draft picks for him. Do you think they're just going to let him walk? I mean if he plays 85% of the snaps, he's going to be a big part of a defense that was awful last year. And Vilma is light years better than the other LBs they have, and probably will be one of the best they've had in a while. It hasn't been easy for them to find LBs.

So rather than give up a young talent, why not just hold him out of some meaningless downs here and there, keep your first rounder, and solidify one LB position for years to come?

[Vintage]

They could let him become a UFA.....then franchise him. I took it to mean he had to play 85% of the snaps and get an extension (while he is already under contract)....

If he becomes a FA; its a new contract.....then they can franchise him and work out a long term deal.