Police: Man shot churchgoers over liberal views

[BrAinPaiNt]

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080728/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting)



By DUNCAN MANSFIELD, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. - Knoxville's police chief says the man accused of a shooting that killed two people at a Tennessee church targeted the congregation because of its liberal social stance.

Chief Sterling Owen IV said Monday that police found a letter in Jim D. Adkisson's car. Owen said Adkisson was apparently frustrated over being out of work and had a "stated hatred of the liberal movement."

Adkisson is charged with first-degree murder. Police say a gunman entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a children's performance Sunday. No children were hurt.

The church is known for advocating women's and gay rights and founding an American Civil Liberties Union chapter.


============

If burm was not in Kuwait I would consider him a suspect, but since he is in Kuwait....Cajun just jumped to the top of the list. :laugh1:

[hairic]

LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080728/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting)



By DUNCAN MANSFIELD, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. - Knoxville's police chief says the man accused of a shooting that killed two people at a Tennessee church targeted the congregation because of its liberal social stance.

Chief Sterling Owen IV said Monday that police found a letter in Jim D. Adkisson's car. Owen said Adkisson was apparently frustrated over being out of work and had a "stated hatred of the liberal movement."

Adkisson is charged with first-degree murder. Police say a gunman entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a children's performance Sunday. No children were hurt.

The church is known for advocating women's and gay rights and founding an American Civil Liberties Union chapter.


============

If burm was not in Kuwait I would consider him a suspect, but since he is in Kuwait....Cajun just jumped to the top of the list. :laugh1:

I wonder if terrorism will be on the long list of charges brought against him because it needs to be. Too bad he's dumb and mentioned a political motivation for an attack. He could have kept quiet and only gotten off with a murder charge.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I wonder if terrorism will be on the long list of charges brought against him because it needs to be. Too bad he's dumb and mentioned a political motivation for an attack. He could have kept quiet and only gotten off with a murder charge.

He fits within the domestic terrorism role defined by the patriot act so anything is possible. I imagine he will not be held using it as he was attacking those dirty liberals.:p:

[bbgun]

His neighbors said he hated religious people in general, especially Christians.

[hairic]

His neighbors said he hated religious people in general, especially Christians.

Yeah, I've read some more and apparently he's an atheist who's also mad because his parents "forced him to go to church all his life".

[tyke1doe]

Yeah, I've read some more and apparently he's an atheist who's also mad because his parents "forced him to go to church all his life".

links, please.

[Bach]

links, please.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/27/neighbors-accused-shooter-everyones-friend-hated-c/

Neighbors: Accused shooter everyone's friend, questioned Christianity

By J.J. Stambaugh (Contact)
Originally published 07:20 p.m., July 27, 2008
Updated 07:20 p.m., July 27, 2008


The man accused of a mass church shooting this morning was described by his Powell neighbors as a helpful and kind man, but one who had issues with Christianity.

Jim D. Adkisson, 58, has been charged with first-degree murder in the shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, which killed one and injured eight others.

He is being held on $1 million bond.

"He had his own sense of belief about religion, that's the impression I got of him," said neighbor Karen Massey. "We were talking one day when my daughter graduated from Bible college, and I told him I was a Christian, then he almost turned angry.

"He seemed to get angry at that."

According to Massey, Adkisson talked frequently about his parents who "made him go to church all his life ... he was forced to do that."

Adkisson has lived by himself in the neighborhood for four or five years, Massey said. She's lived there seven years.

He told neighbors that he had worked in a factory and driven a truck, but they weren't sure if he was still employed.

He is an avid motorcyclist and rides his bike up and down the road.

He goes by the name, "David," according to the neighbors.

"He only socialized with a few people," Massey said.

"He was very nice ... he's kind of quiet," she said.

Melissa Coker, a next-door neighbor, also expressed shock that he would be accused of such a violent.

She related how he recently helped change a tire on her car in the driveway.

"He was a very nice guy, he said he used to be a truck driver, but in the past six months to a year, he wasn't driving any more," Coker said. "From my understanding, he was retired."

He lives in a white basement duplex, with garages facing the street.

The yard was neatly mowed, and a water hose was coiled up in the driveway in front of the duplex.

Neighbors said he was the guy who would always help them, no matter what.

No one ever saw him with any weapons of any kind, Massey said.

"He's never bothered anyone," Massey said.

More details as they develop online and in Monday's News Sentinel.

[DFWJC]

Yeah, I've read some more and apparently he's an atheist who's also mad because his parents "forced him to go to church all his life".

So predictable that this was also a hate crime against Christians but that somehow if it eventually shows up in the New York Times or MSNBC it will be only hate against "liberals".

[zrinkill]

Well I guess that blows the "crazy Christian kills people" theory intended by this thread.

[ScipioCowboy]

Well I guess that blows the "crazy Christian kills people" theory intended by this thread.

If the killer is indeed an atheist, who are the prime suspects?;)

[bbgun]

Another jaundiced headline from Yahoo News. No wonder Bear loves them so.

[Bach]

Another jaundiced headline from Yahoo News. No wonder Bear loves them so.

At least this one is from this year.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well I guess that blows the "crazy Christian kills people" theory intended by this thread.

Nope...THIS part was what caught my eye...

Chief Sterling Owen IV said Monday that police found a letter in Jim D. Adkisson's car. Owen said Adkisson was apparently frustrated over being out of work and had a "stated hatred of the liberal movement."

[hairic]

Well I guess that blows the "crazy Christian kills people" theory intended by this thread.

I don't see that as intended at all. It looks like the emphasized term was liberals. I don't think the mere mention of the word church implied anything, and only later in the thread did his views on Christianity come about.

Anyway, my view is that there are no such things as crazy Christians in the sense of these types of attacks. All those attacks that were performed against abortion clinics, the doctors, gay bars, etc were done by crazy church goers. They do those attacks it in the name of Christianity, but they don't understand it. They're citing the old testament for supporting quotes and completely ignoring the " method".

Another hypothesis is that he hates that his parents "forced" him to go to church and read about , so he starts to hate , then he starts to hate his views, and then he starts to hate those who share 's views (liberal).

Hate flowchart: parents -> -> liberals.
Healthy person's solution: Troll online forums naked on a bean bag chair.
Crazy person's solution: Shoot up a liberal church.

[burmafrd]

would be a conservative if he was around now. His views on many things would not be in line with the current Democratic Party Platform.

[Bach]

would be a conservative if he was around now. His views on many things would not be in line with the current Democratic Party Platform.

Anyone who thinks he'd be a liberal is out of their mind.

[jman]

Another hypothesis is that he hates that his parents "forced" him to go to church and read about , so he starts to hate , then he starts to hate his views, and then he starts to hate those who share 's views (liberal).

Okay...someone who didn't get enough attention as a child and hates his parents...I can see it.

But, "Christian" and "Liberal" as combined hate motive just say wacko...period.

All this says is “please hope we have gotten to him before he has had children and we have taken him out of the gene pool”.

Nothing political here and those who think the ramblings of an idiot and psychopath is a political statement may have already have joined him in their own personal hell.

[Cajuncowboy]

If burm was not in Kuwait I would consider him a suspect, but since he is in Kuwait....Cajun just jumped to the top of the list. :laugh1:

:bang2:

[Cajuncowboy]

would be a conservative if he was around now. His views on many things would not be in line with the current Democratic Party Platform.

#1 is around now...

#2 He's not a conservative or a liberal. If you want to know what he thinks on anything, it's been written down for us.

I am a conservative, and I try to keep my views in line with what would have, but that said, I can only speak for my interpretation of what the Word says.

[notherbob]

For those who aren't aware of what the Unitarian/Universalist church is, it isn't a Christian church, isn't based on the Bible, doesn't have an official dogma nor any fixed fixed list of sins. The church itself takes no position on theology or dogma and doesn't push the 10 commandments. It suggests that each member learn all they can about everything they can and decide for themselves what they should believe about the nature of God and what they feel compelled to believe based on their individual perception of what they have learned about science, religions and philosophy. They don't tell anybody what to believe, they leave that up to every person to decide for themselves.

Individual members may take any position they wish but the church itself takes no position except learn all you can and decide for yourself. Generally, members do not criticize the beliefs of any other members. Tolerance of differences of religious opinion is encouraged.

It doesn't say you have to believe in the Bible or or anything else, Lots of agnostics attend services as do even atheists because they are cheerfully tolerated there. It's kinda like a church for secular humanists.

Just thought some might like to know what Unitarian/Universalism is all about.

Some people enjoy the diversity of religiophilosophical opinion, some feel threatened by it.

[notherbob]

I don't even pretend to be any kind of expert on it but it seems to me that taught that we should help the poor and the afflicted, the oppressed and the imprisoned and that we should forgive others instead of making war against them. In fact, it even seems like he was the first liberal, especially since he was trying to change what Judaism had become in his time. How is that conservative? In fact he could even be considered a radical because of the differences in his teachings versus the the teachings of those in power in his time.

If you want to find the first liberal, the first one to want to help the common man, look no further than the man from Nazareth. He taught that we should love our neighbor as ourself and that we should forgive others for their transgressions against us. He even said we should pray to God asking that God forgive us the same way we forgive others. Were those just empty words?

He was obviously the ultimate liberal of his time. Many modern organizations claiming to be Christian often teach and live the opposite values of what he taught and practiced. The Bible also says people's actions say more about them than their words.

Christianity has evolved substantially over the centuries and has become a veritable smorgasbord of churches and each can choose the version of Christianity that suits their own beliefs. Or some other concept as they see fit.

I'm not any kind of expert, just a curious onlooker.

I apologize if my post stepped on anyone's toes, it was not meant to offend, just to point out the many different shades of Christianity in existence today and wonder how relevant they are to the original message.

[iceberg]

Anyone who thinks he'd be a liberal is out of their mind.

i don't think ever gave a crap about parties but i'm pretty sure he hated tax collectors.

[iceberg]

I don't even pretend to be any kind of expert on it but it seems to me that taught that we should help the poor and the afflicted, the oppressed and the imprisoned and that we should forgive others instead of making war against them. In fact, it even seems like he was the first liberal, especially since he was trying to change what Judaism had become in his time. How is that conservative? In fact he could even be considered a radical because of the differences in his teachings versus the the teachings of those in power in his time.

If you want to find the first liberal, the first one to want to help the common man, look no further than the man from Nazareth. He taught that we should love our neighbor as ourself and that we should forgive others for their transgressions against us. He even said we should pray to God asking that God forgive us the same way we forgive others. Were those just empty words?

He was obviously the ultimate liberal of his time. Many modern organizations claiming to be Christian often teach and live the opposite values of what he taught and practiced. The Bible also says people's actions say more about them than their words.

Christianity has evolved substantially over the centuries and has become a veritable smorgasbord of churches and each can choose the version of Christianity that suits their own beliefs. Or some other concept as they see fit.

I'm not any kind of expert, just a curious onlooker.

I apologize if my post stepped on anyone's toes, it was not meant to offend, just to point out the many different shades of Christianity in existence today and wonder how relevant they are to the original message.

with all the years you got put into life, nother...you're an expert.

the trick is getting people to listen who think you can't learn along the way.

[ScipioCowboy]

I don't even pretend to be any kind of expert on it but it seems to me that taught that we should help the poor and the afflicted, the oppressed and the imprisoned and that we should forgive others instead of making war against them. In fact, it even seems like he was the first liberal, especially since he was trying to change what Judaism had become in his time. How is that conservative? In fact he could even be considered a radical because of the differences in his teachings versus the the teachings of those in power in his time.

If you want to find the first liberal, the first one to want to help the common man, look no further than the man from Nazareth. He taught that we should love our neighbor as ourself and that we should forgive others for their transgressions against us. He even said we should pray to God asking that God forgive us the same way we forgive others. Were those just empty words?

He was obviously the ultimate liberal of his time. Many modern organizations claiming to be Christian often teach and live the opposite values of what he taught and practiced. The Bible also says people's actions say more about them than their words.

Christianity has evolved substantially over the centuries and has become a veritable smorgasbord of churches and each can choose the version of Christianity that suits their own beliefs. Or some other concept as they see fit.

I'm not any kind of expert, just a curious onlooker.

I apologize if my post stepped on anyone's toes, it was not meant to offend, just to point out the many different shades of Christianity in existence today and wonder how relevant they are to the original message.

It depends on one's definition of liberal--a topic I've broached before in this very forum. The definition of liberal has undergone many revisions throughout history. Classical liberalism, with its perpetuation of unregulated markets and laissez-faire capitalism, differs markedly from modern notions of liberalism, which encourage wealth redistribution and a myriad of social programs.

One could argue was a liberal in the sense that he worked for change, but I know numerous contemporary conservatives who are also seeking changes of their own.

Given the Bible's statement that God formed us in the womb and knew us before we were born, it seems unlikely would be pro-abortion, which is an integral component of modern liberalism.

instructs us to help the poor, but speaks against lazy and slovenly behavior. In fact, according to the New Testament, if an able-bodied person refuses to work, he shouldn't eat. Contrary to these teachings, many "liberal" social programs seem to encourage and facilitate a culture of indolence and unearned entitlement.

In truth, is neither liberal or conservative. These are transient secular terms, which He transcends.

I can already feel BP working the lock over this thread.:p:

[Bach]

i don't think ever gave a crap about parties but i'm pretty sure he hated tax collectors.

I'm pretty sure he didn't hate anyone.

[iceberg]

I'm pretty sure he didn't hate anyone.

i'm pretty sure you're right. : )

[Jarv]

i don't think ever gave a crap about parties but i'm pretty sure he hated tax collectors.

See this coin, whose picture is on it.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's.

[zrinkill]

would not be a liberal or conservative.

is above such things and represents the good from both sides.

[BrAinPaiNt]

would be a conservative if he was around now. His views on many things would not be in line with the current Democratic Party Platform.

He would shun both parties because of their greed...don't say stupid things.

[Phrozen Phil]

would be a conservative if he was around now. His views on many things would not be in line with the current Democratic Party Platform.

According to your views, all of us who aren't gun-toting, homophobic, intolerant neo-cons would all be targets of your version of . Politics and religion continue to be a bad mix.

[bbgun]

I'm pretty sure he didn't hate anyone.

Not even telemarketers?

[Bach]

Not even telemarketers?

Hated the sin, I'm sure.

[Phrozen Phil]

Not even telemarketers?

There is debate over whether telemarketers are, in fact, human. If not, then they do qualify as "anybody" and then can, therefore be hated. ;)

[bbgun]

There is debate over whether telemarketers are, in fact, human. If not, then they do qualify as "anybody" and then can, therefore be hated. ;)

I always suspected they had no souls.

[iceberg]

a long time ago when all the home carriers were calling you night and day to ask you to switch, i was with at&t. sprint or mci called me and this lady just went through her speel about what plans they had and how i could save. so, me being the entertaining smartarse that i am, told her that i worked for NASA and i need to call the space shuttle a lot. do they have a calling plan that would save me money in this regard.

she thought for a moment and slowly said "no, no we sure don't"

so i just said "don't call back till ya do" and hung up.

[burmafrd]

Only the really stupid think that you cannot hold strong beliefs and still function. Which seems to be the problem with our more liberal members- always somehow forgetting how much they bow down to their own "religion"= liberalism.