Obama on US Currency...

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well we know the recent line about obama saying that they will try and tell you he has a funny name and he doesn't look like the other presidents on the dollar and so on.

Well oddly enough check out this McCain ad from JUNE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPARec32KMI

Hmm...

[iceberg]

Well we know the recent line about obama saying that they will try and tell you he has a funny name and he doesn't look like the other presidents on the dollar and so on.

Well oddly enough check out this McCain ad from JUNE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPARec32KMI

Hmm...

there were a LOT of things they were "changing" and they were making fun of his CHANGE mantra more than him on the dollar bill. i don't think this was "race" related.

[zrinkill]

I don't think this was "race" related.

But .... but it has to be ..... Obama is half black right? That means if you make fun of the fact that he is running on the vague idea of change, it has to be a race related attack.

[BrAinPaiNt]

But .... but it has to be ..... Obama is half black right? That means if you make fun of the fact that he is running on the vague idea of change, it has to be a race related attack.

It is funny because He made some claims and people were up in arms.

However in the past, people did make fun of his name, and what do you know a McCain ad with him on US Currency.

People can complain all they want but it is funny non the less because what he has said is basically true.

They have taken those tactics.

[zrinkill]

It is funny because He made some claims and people were up in arms.

However in the past, people did make fun of his name, and what do you know a McCain ad with him on US Currency.

People can complain all they want but it is funny non the less because what he has said is basically true.

They have taken those tactics.

McCain has not tried to portray Obama as a scary black man ..... if anything McCain is portraying Obama for what he is ...... an inexperienced young guy who is running with the full backing of the press and on a message based on "change" and "hope" with no substance behind it.

Obama is portraying McCain as an old guy out of touch with the people who will die soon and and will only continue the actions of the devil Bush until he does.

Neither will openly take cheap shots at the other ...... both will do it through people they will then publicly berate and distance themselves from till after the election.

[iceberg]

It is funny because He made some claims and people were up in arms.

However in the past, people did make fun of his name, and what do you know a McCain ad with him on US Currency.

People can complain all they want but it is funny non the less because what he has said is basically true.

They have taken those tactics.

and in elementary school i was "jerry the hairey ape".

foreskins
weird al yankovic
mel brooks

gee - you'd think it's what we do all around. how come some people want to be exempt from it like they're above it all?

noticing a person is black does not make that person racist but we've sure gone off in that direction.

you saying the obama camp isn't doing some childish things, bp?

[Ben_n_austin]

If this is all they got, bring it.



----> McCain :spanking: <----himself



What was he saying about substance? It seems he's implying Obama doesn't have any. But I don't see any on his part either.


Stooooopid.

[Cajuncowboy]

Well we know the recent line about obama saying that they will try and tell you he has a funny name and he doesn't look like the other presidents on the dollar and so on.

Well oddly enough check out this McCain ad from JUNE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPARec32KMI

Hmm...

Are you trying to say this ad was about his race?

[bbgun]

David Axelrod already conceded that they were making a (negative) racial appeal, so this is much ado about nothing.

[zrinkill]

David Axelrod

Sounds like Obama has a porn star working for him.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Are you trying to say this ad was about his race?

No...geez.

My point was, he brought up the funny name thing...which was true because McCain already denounced someone using it in a pre-speech warm up.

Then the us currency thing seemed to come out of nowhere...until we see that it was in regard to an ad that ran in june.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Sounds like Obama has a porn star working for him.

:laugh2: Hope he did not star along side Jeff Gannon. :eek: :laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

No...geez.

My point was, he brought up the funny name thing...which was true because McCain already denounced someone using it in a pre-speech warm up.

Then the us currency thing seemed to come out of nowhere...until we see that it was in regard to an ad that ran in june.

I think it was not to say he doesn't LOOK like the guys on the money. The point was his "change" mantra. He did indeed change the presidential seal, so they were poking fun at that. The only thing he talks about changing is things like that. This has nothing to do with what Obama was talking about. He was referencing his looks, and McCain's ad was referencing things that Obama did or might do.

[bbgun]

NRO:

Showing Barack Obama Playing Basketball Now Racist [Greg Pollowitz]

So says New York Magazine:

The racial undertones of this assault are subtle but undeniable, as Obama himself suggested when he asserted last week that his opponents are trying to make voters “scared” of him because he “doesn’t look like the other presidents on the currency.” They’re most glaring in “Troops,” which features footage of Obama sinking a three-pointer in Kuwait, despite the fact that the shot took place at a military base, which undermines the ad’s argument. But the spot’s deeper aim is to foster an unconscious simile: Obama as a blinged-up, camera-hungry, NBA shooting guard, Allen Iverson with a Harvard Law degree. Am I reaching? Consider this: Would the ad have featured footage of Obama on a golf course draining a hole-in-one? “No, it wouldn’t,” laughs a GOP media savant. “The racial angle is the first thing I thought of when I saw that ad. It fits into the celebrity stuff, too.” (For McCain, that impolitic, pro-Obama Ludacris track was manna from hip-hop heaven.)

If that's the case, from now on, Barack Obama can't show photos of John McCain in his ads. Because McCain is old, actually showing pictures of him will now be considered as ageism.

[BrAinPaiNt]

NRO:

Showing Barack Obama Playing Basketball Now Racist [Greg Pollowitz]

So says New York Magazine:

The racial undertones of this assault are subtle but undeniable, as Obama himself suggested when he asserted last week that his opponents are trying to make voters “scared” of him because he “doesn’t look like the other presidents on the currency.” They’re most glaring in “Troops,” which features footage of Obama sinking a three-pointer in Kuwait, despite the fact that the shot took place at a military base, which undermines the ad’s argument. But the spot’s deeper aim is to foster an unconscious simile: Obama as a blinged-up, camera-hungry, NBA shooting guard, Allen Iverson with a Harvard Law degree. Am I reaching? Consider this: Would the ad have featured footage of Obama on a golf course draining a hole-in-one? “No, it wouldn’t,” laughs a GOP media savant. “The racial angle is the first thing I thought of when I saw that ad. It fits into the celebrity stuff, too.” (For McCain, that impolitic, pro-Obama Ludacris track was manna from hip-hop heaven.)

If that's the case, from now on, Barack Obama can't show photos of John McCain in his ads. Because McCain is old, actually showing pictures of him will now be considered as ageism.

Obama just needs to use Younger pictures of McCain in his ads, Pictures from McCain in 2000...in other words copy Fox.:p:

[Cajuncowboy]

NRO:

Showing Barack Obama Playing Basketball Now Racist [Greg Pollowitz]

So says New York Magazine:

The racial undertones of this assault are subtle but undeniable, as Obama himself suggested when he asserted last week that his opponents are trying to make voters “scared” of him because he “doesn’t look like the other presidents on the currency.” They’re most glaring in “Troops,” which features footage of Obama sinking a three-pointer in Kuwait, despite the fact that the shot took place at a military base, which undermines the ad’s argument. But the spot’s deeper aim is to foster an unconscious simile: Obama as a blinged-up, camera-hungry, NBA shooting guard, Allen Iverson with a Harvard Law degree. Am I reaching? Consider this: Would the ad have featured footage of Obama on a golf course draining a hole-in-one? “No, it wouldn’t,” laughs a GOP media savant. “The racial angle is the first thing I thought of when I saw that ad. It fits into the celebrity stuff, too.” (For McCain, that impolitic, pro-Obama Ludacris track was manna from hip-hop heaven.)

If that's the case, from now on, Barack Obama can't show photos of John McCain in his ads. Because McCain is old, actually showing pictures of him will now be considered as ageism.

I can't wait for this to be over. I am so sick of hearing about how McCain is a racist I'm about to puke.I swear anyone who believes this should not be allowed to vote because they are too stupid to know what's going on.

[bbgun]

I can't wait for this to be over. I am so sick of hearing about how McCain is a racist I'm about to puke.I swear anyone who believes this should not be allowed to vote because they are too stupid to know what's going on.

But if The Chosen One wins, it won't be over. You're looking at 4 to 8 years of defaming opponents as racists. But hey, he's just trying to make us comfortable with his race by smearing us falsely as bigots.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I can't wait for this to be over. I am so sick of hearing about how McCain is a racist I'm about to puke.I swear anyone who believes this should not be allowed to vote because they are too stupid to know what's going on.

McCain is not a racist...he had an illegitimate black baby.:D

[BrAinPaiNt]

But if The Chosen One wins, it won't be over. You're looking at 4 to 8 years of defaming opponents as racists. But hey, he's just trying to make us comfortable with his race by smearing us falsely as bigots.

Not much different than being accused of not being a patriot just because you don't bow down to bush's anti-constitution admin.

[bbgun]

Not much different than being accused of not being a patriot just because you don't bow down to bush's anti-constitution admin.

Dissent is not patriotic if it's the only thing the Left has to offer, and for many it is.

George Orwell: "We are told that it is only people’s objective actions that matter, and their subjective feelings are of no importance. Thus pacifists, by obstructing the war effort, are ‘objectively’ aiding the Nazis; and therefore the fact that they may be personally hostile to Fascism is irrelevant. I have been guilty of saying this myself more than once."

[BrAinPaiNt]

Dissent is not patriotic if it's the only thing the Left has to offer, and for many it is.

George Orwell: "We are told that it is only people’s objective actions that matter, and their subjective feelings are of no importance. Thus pacifists, by obstructing the war effort, are ‘objectively’ aiding the Nazis; and therefore the fact that they may be personally hostile to Fascism is irrelevant. I have been guilty of saying this myself more than once."

Speaking of Nazis...I am sure you know the quote from Goering that fits these admins ways to a tee.

Or by Franklin about giving up liberty for security but deserving neither.

Or...Give me liberty or give me death.

It's so sad that so called conservatives are so willing to give liberty up do to an enemy who was wanting to take them away anyways...who really is aiding the enemy in that scenario...I would say the one so willing to give up freedoms sake for some security when in the end the only one gaining anything is really the government.

Furthermore...dissent, in vocal form, is indeed patriotic. I think too many of you forget that government is for the PEOPLE. Not People for the government.

I think you forget that they should be scared of us, not the other way around.

The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted.
- James Madison

Fear is the foundation of most governments.
- John Adams

Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master! -Thomas Jefferson

It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds - Samuel Adams

[Cajuncowboy]

Speaking of Nazis...I am sure you know the quote from Goering that fits these admins ways to a tee.

Or by Franklin about giving up liberty for security but deserving neither.

Or...Give me liberty or give me death.

It's so sad that so called conservatives are so willing to give liberty up do to an enemy who was wanting to take them away anyways...who really is aiding the enemy in that scenario...I would say the one so willing to give up freedoms sake for some security when in the end the only one gaining anything is really the government.

Tell me Brain, what liberty have you lost over the last 8 years. You personally, name me just one. I hear this mantra all the time but have not seen where one person on this board has lost any liberty.

[zrinkill]

I still would like to see a list on the rights and freedoms we Americans have given up to the Evil George Bush regime.

[zrinkill]

Tell me Brain, what liberty have you lost over the last 8 years. You personally, name me just one. I hear this mantra all the time but have not seen where one person on this board has lost any liberty.


:laugh2: like minds

[Cajuncowboy]

:laugh2: like minds

Geez, that's scary. Would still love to hear the answer though.

[bbgun]

Speaking of Nazis...I am sure you know the quote from Goering that fits these admins ways to a tee.

Or by Franklin about giving up liberty for security but deserving neither.

Or...Give me liberty or give me death.

It's so sad that so called conservatives are so willing to give liberty up do to an enemy who was wanting to take them away anyways...who really is aiding the enemy in that scenario...I would say the one so willing to give up freedoms sake for some security when in the end the only one gaining anything is really the government.

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." -- Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson.

FYI, The Patriot Act and the FISA bill enjoyed wide, bi-partisan support, so not everyone is as childishly naive as yourself when it comes to issues of war and security (thank God for that). If you don't want others to read you as "unpatriotic," then stop giving them reasons to.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Tell me Brain, what liberty have you lost over the last 8 years. You personally, name me just one. I hear this mantra all the time but have not seen where one person on this board has lost any liberty.

Never heard of habeus corpus?

It has already been abused in this country.

Wiretapping?

There has already been a on record case of over a hundred wire taps in a Hotel in Las Vegas...that we know of...although I guess all of those people were talking to terrorists.

Just because someone has not had it happen to them, does not mean it is OK.

That is foolish and dangerous mentality...especially for a conservative.

Your mind set of if you have nothing to hide, you are ok is silly. If that was the case all of the bush people would not refuse to stand before congress and testify...surely they have nothing to hide.:laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." -- Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson.

FYI, The Patriot Act and the FISA bill enjoyed wide, bi-partisan support, so not everyone is as childishly naive as yourself when it comes to issues of war and security (thank God for that). If you don't want others to read you as "unpatriotic," then stop giving them reasons to.

I'll defend Brain here, not that he needs it, but he is the furthest thing from unpatriotic. He just views things completely differently.

He served this country and that is something I won't let slide without saying something. Sorry BB, it was a bit over the line.

[BrAinPaiNt]

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact." -- Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson.

FYI, The Patriot Act and the FISA bill enjoyed wide, bi-partisan support, so not everyone is as childishly naive as yourself when it comes to issues of war and security (thank God for that). If you don't want others to read you as "unpatriotic," then stop giving them reasons to.

Geez you guys are all the same...well the dems did it too...DUH stupidity runs rampant on both sides of the aisle. Just look at pelosi for an example.

Hey they did it so it must be ok.

This is the type of mentality that lets freedoms be GIVEN away with a smile.

Furthermore I consider myself patriotic...but then again by you saying that it only reinforces what Goering said and the bush mantra.

Thanks for thinking like a nazi.

[zrinkill]

Never heard of habeus corpus?

It has already been abused in this country.

Wiretapping?

There has already been a on record case of over a hundred wire taps in a Hotel in Las Vegas...that we know of...although I guess all of those people were talking to terrorists.

Just because someone has not had it happen to them, does not mean it is OK.

That is foolish and dangerous mentality...especially for a conservative.

Your mind set of if you have nothing to hide, you are ok is silly. If that was the case all of the bush people would not refuse to stand before congress and testify...surely they have nothing to hide.:laugh2:


SO the Bush administration are the ones who started this wire tapping?

All the Presidents before them did not do these things?

I mean for rights and liberties to be taken away by this administration. ..... this stuff would not have been going on before right?

Just want to clarify before I answer.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'll defend Brain here, not that he needs it, but he is the furthest thing from unpatriotic. He just views things completely differently.

He served this country and that is something I won't let slide without saying something. Sorry BB, it was a bit over the line.

Thanks...but I have come to expect that of him.

[Vintage]

Tell me Brain, what liberty have you lost over the last 8 years. You personally, name me just one. I hear this mantra all the time but have not seen where one person on this board has lost any liberty.


Didn't we almost lose out on the 2nd amendment not too long ago?

I am not referring to the Bush administration here; rather, just commenting on the start of what could be a dangerous slide....

[Cajuncowboy]

Never heard of habeus corpus?

How has Bush violated this???

It has already been abused in this country.

Wiretapping?

Wiretapping the terrorists is a bad thing? They are NOT wiretapping you. :rolleyes:

There has already been a on record case of over a hundred wire taps in a Hotel in Las Vegas...that we know of...although I guess all of those people were talking to terrorists.

Do you know that they weren't?

Just because someone has not had it happen to them, does not mean it is OK.

That is foolish and dangerous mentality...especially for a conservative.

Your mind set of if you have nothing to hide, you are ok is silly. If that was the case all of the bush people would not refuse to stand before congress and testify...surely they have nothing to hide.:laugh2:

What's foolish and dangerous is to just turn your head and pretend 9/11 didn't happen.

[BrAinPaiNt]

SO the Bush administration are the ones who started this wire tapping?

All the Presidents before them did not do these things?

I mean for rights and liberties to be taken away by this administration. ..... this stuff would not have been going on before right?

Just want to clarify before I answer.



Good lord.

It is like playing in romper room.

NO BUSH IS NOT THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO DO THIS.

But the patriot act just further solidify it and makes it easier...basically it gives more power than it should and is against the constitution. That is why the supreme court has already overturned part of it and has went against two bush rulings concerning trials for enemy combatants.

Geez does that make you feel better now.

Does it make it ok because others did it before bush?

[Vintage]

One thing I will say is.... balancing liberty and security has never been easy. And Bush is trying to do it on the fly, because, really..... we've had no other choice.

History will look back one day and determine if he was/is right. But the answer isn't clear now.

But it def. deserves to be talked about.

I'm not sure how to balance the needs of security of a nation with the GUARANTEE of liberty.

Can you?

[BrAinPaiNt]

What's foolish and dangerous is to just turn your head and pretend 9/11 didn't happen.

Yes...that is what it is...9/11 never happened and that was the silliest thing I have heard in some time.

Just because someone does not want the perversity of government power to take away rights we are guaranteed does not mean that 9/11 did not happen nor does it mean something has to happen to them directly.

Good lord. The president of the united states himself swears an oath to defend the constitution...not shred it.

[Cajuncowboy]

Good lord.

It is like playing in romper room.

NO BUSH IS NOT THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO DO THIS.

But the patriot act just further solidify it and makes it easier...basically it gives more power than it should and is against the constitution. That is why the supreme court has already overturned part of it and has went against two bush rulings concerning trials for enemy combatants.

Geez does that make you feel better now.

Does it make it ok because others did it before bush?

The others that did it before Bush was pre 9/11.

How many attacks have we had on American soil since then?

Do you argue that these means have not been effective? And do still enjoy life pretty much as you have before that? Seems to me you have. We all have.

[Vintage]

Here is the Goering quote, for those interested....


Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

[Cajuncowboy]

Yes...that is what it is...9/11 never happened and that was the silliest thing I have heard in some time.

Just because someone does not want the perversity of government power to take away rights we are guaranteed does not mean that 9/11 did not happen nor does it mean something has to happen to them directly.

Good lord. The president of the united states himself swears an oath to defend the constitution...not shred it.

He also swears to defend the country. And he has. And without defending the country, what's the point of the Constitution?

And yes, He is good. :D

[bbgun]

I'll defend Brain here, not that he needs it, but he is the furthest thing from unpatriotic. He just views things completely differently.

He served this country and that is something I won't let slide without saying something. Sorry BB, it was a bit over the line.

He's the one who first referenced that incendiary term. As opposed to the company he keeps, I don't think he's unpatriotic, just reflexively anti-American whenever a Republican is in the WH. Michael Medved makes a similar point in his blog today.

Self-Hating Americans
Posted by: Michael Medved at 9:29 AM

Do angry critics of U.S. policy qualify as anti-American?

Not always, but on occasion they do.

Leftists love to assert that "dissent is patriotic," but that's not invariably true. Some dissenters may see themselves as patriots, but others most certainly deserve identification as anti-American. I much prefer the term "anti-American" to the term "unpatriotic" because it's an attitude that's easier to identify. The word "unpatriotic" lends itself to multiple interpetrations, but "anti-American" specifically defines an attitude suggesting the U.S. constitutes a malevolent, destructive force in the world.

For instance, a reader who identified himself as "paxnow" responded to my recent USA Today columns (July 22, 2008, comparing America's role in Iraq and the Philippines) by posting the following comment on the newspaper’s website: “Any honest review of he 20th century to date would conclude the Evil Empire is the US. There is virtually no country which was not attacked by the US or whose government was not overthrown. The U.S. has over 1,000 military bases in over 130 countries to date. We are 3% the population of earth, but spend 51% of the entire military budget. The enemy is US.”

In a similar vein, Jake Irwin, a student at Evergreen State College in Olympia Washington, and an outspoken admirer of Venezuelan demagogue Hugo Chavez, told the Wall Street Journal: "My political belief is that the U.S. is a horrendous empire that needs to end."

Could anyone characterize this sort of "dissent" as patriotic or, more to the point, pro-American?

For more than a century, psychologists have described a syndrome by which some members of the Jewish community have adopted self-hate (Selbhabst in the original German) as an attitude toward their own people.

Today, it's even more common to find a similar derangement in the fetid, paranoid fever swamps of the extreme left: self-hating Americans.

[BrAinPaiNt]

One thing I will say is.... balancing liberty and security has never been easy. And Bush is trying to do it on the fly, because, really..... we've had no other choice.

History will look back one day and determine if he was/is right. But the answer isn't clear now.

But it def. deserves to be talked about.

I'm not sure how to balance the needs of security of a nation with the GUARANTEE of liberty.

Can you?

Yes.

You can have ALL the wire taps you want at any time you want...just as long as you go through fisa to have a record and valid warrant...said warrant can be obtained AFTER the wire tap is done.

You can hold the enemy combatants as long as you want...as long as they get legal rep and a trial. 99.9% of them will be found guilty because the evidence is probably pretty conclusive.

Not too hard in those two areas alone.

[Cajuncowboy]

He's the one who first referenced that incendiary term. As opposed to the company he keeps, I don't think he's unpatriotic, just reflexively anti-American whenever a Republican is in the WH. Michael Medved makes a similar point in his blog today.

Self-Hating Americans
Posted by: Michael Medved at 9:29 AM

Do angry critics of U.S. policy qualify as anti-American?

Not always, but on occasion they do.

Leftists love to assert that "dissent is patriotic," but that's not invariably true. Some dissenters may see themselves as patriots, but others most certainly deserve identification as anti-American. I much prefer the term "anti-American" to the term "unpatriotic" because it's an attitude that's easier to identify. The word "unpatriotic" lends itself to multiple interpetrations, but "anti-American" specifically defines an attitude suggesting the U.S. constitutes a malevolent, destructive force in the world.

For instance, a reader who identified himself as "paxnow" responded to my recent USA Today columns (July 22, 2008, comparing America's role in Iraq and the Philippines) by posting the following comment on the newspaper’s website: “Any honest review of he 20th century to date would conclude the Evil Empire is the US. There is virtually no country which was not attacked by the US or whose government was not overthrown. The U.S. has over 1,000 military bases in over 130 countries to date. We are 3% the population of earth, but spend 51% of the entire military budget. The enemy is US.”

In a similar vein, Jake Irwin, a student at Evergreen State College in Olympia Washington, and an outspoken admirer of Venezuelan demagogue Hugo Chavez, told the Wall Street Journal: "My political belief is that the U.S. is a horrendous empire that needs to end."

Could anyone characterize this sort of "dissent" as patriotic or, more to the point, pro-American?

For more than a century, psychologists have described a syndrome by which some members of the Jewish community have adopted self-hate (Selbhabst in the original German) as an attitude toward their own people.

Today, it's even more common to find a similar derangement in the fetid, paranoid fever swamps of the extreme left: self-hating Americans.

FYI, he voted for Bush the first time around. Just sayin'.

[Cajuncowboy]

Yes.

You can have ALL the wire taps you want at any time you want...just as long as you go through fisa to have a record and valid warrant...said warrant can be obtained AFTER the wire tap is done.

You can hold the enemy combatants as long as you want...as long as they get legal rep and a trial. 99.9% of them will be found guilty because the evidence is probably pretty conclusive.

Not too hard in those two areas alone.

So you would trust the judges over the intel to make that call?

[Vintage]

Yes.

You can have ALL the wire taps you want at any time you want...just as long as you go through fisa to have a record and valid warrant...said warrant can be obtained AFTER the wire tap is done.

You can hold the enemy combatants as long as you want...as long as they get legal rep and a trial. 99.9% of them will be found guilty because the evidence is probably pretty conclusive.

Not too hard in those two areas alone.


Many a times, the evidence against the terrorists is indeed beyond a reasonable doubt.

Problem is, too reveal that information in open court jeopordizes agents, overseas contacts, reveals to the terrorists exactly how much we do know, etc.

How do we balance that?

[zrinkill]

Does it make it ok because others did it before bush?

The argument was that rights and liberties are being taken by this administration ..... so if they had already been violated (though I do not think talking on the phone is a right or liberty) then how could this administration use 9/11 to take them away?

The argument I always hear is Bush is a Nazi that is taking our rights away .... not Every President in the modern age is a Nazi who is taking my rights away.

Wonder how many Libs or "moderates" on here were up in arms about Waco and Ruby Ridge?

[Cajuncowboy]

The argument was that rights and liberties are being taken by this administration ..... so if they had already been violated (though I do not think talking on the phone is a right or liberty) then how could this administration use 9/11 to take them away?

The argument I always here is Bush is a Nazi that is taking our rights away .... not Every President in the modern age is a Nazi who is taking my rights away.

Wonder how many on here was up in arms about Waco and Ruby Ridge?

Here comes the "Just because others did it doesn't make it right" line.

[zrinkill]

Brainpaint is a Patriot. to that fact I have no doubt.

I think he is an idealist who's distaste for the Bush administration has given the appearance of him being farther left than he would normally be.

The one thing I know is that Brain will always fall on the side of a Soldier or Marine or any military man if their military service is being badmouthed by some of the "super" libs of this forum.

[bbgun]

FYI, he voted for Bush the first time around. Just sayin'.

Suuuuure. I get a laugh when people post hundreds of threads harmful to McCain's or the GOP's interests, yet pretend to be "above it all" or "undecided." No sale.

[Vintage]

Brainpaint is a Patriot. to that fact I have no doubt.

I think he is an idealist who's distaste for the Bush administration has given the appearance of him being farther left than he would normally be.

The one thing I know is that Brain will always fall on the side of a Soldier or Marine or any military man if their military service is being badmouthed by some of the "super" libs of this forum.

I don't think that's the case.

I think it gets to the core of what many "Conservatives" are upset with the Republican party, about.

I think Brain is showing to be more to the "right" of Bush (with the exception of a couple of social issues.)

[Vintage]

Suuuuure. I get a laugh when people post hundreds of threads harmful to McCain's or the GOP's interests, yet pretend to be "above it all" or "undecided." No sale.

Though I don't know brainpaint personally....

I'd be VERY surprised if he voted for Barack.



I think its far more likely he'll hold his nose and vote McCain or vote 3rd Party. If that's unfair to say Brain, please correct me. But that's what I get a sense of in reading your posts (and what I've interpeted to be your political leanings). And if forces to guess..... I'd say, 3rd Party.

[bbgun]

I don't think that's the case.

I think it gets to the core of what many "Conservatives" are upset with the Republican party, about.

You're off-base. "Conservatives" haven't soured on Bush because of wiretapping or Guantanamo, but rather out of control spending, mismanagement of the war, being too loyal to subordinates, and ignoring the border.

[Vintage]

You're off-base. "Conservatives" haven't soured on Bush because of wiretapping or Guantanamo, but rather out of control spending, mismanagement of the war, being too loyal to subordinates, and ignoring the border.


That was more or less what I was referring too....

So, no, I wasn't off base.

[bbgun]

Though I don't know brainpaint personally....

I'd be VERY surprised if he voted for Barack.

If that's the case, then we should expect to see as many anti-Obama threads from him as anti-McCain. I shan't hold my breath.

[Vintage]

If that's the case, then we should expect to see as many anti-Obama threads from him as anti-McCain. I shan't hold my breath.

Maybe.

I bet if you search my posts, you'll find more posts directed angerly at Tony Romo's play than Brad Johnson's...

Its not because I think Brad Johnson is better. Or that I hate Tony. Or that I particularly like Brad.

I hold one of those players to a high standard. The other, I am pleasantly surprised if he does something well.

It could be as simple as that (for brain). I don't know. You'd have to ask him.

[Cajuncowboy]

Suuuuure. I get a laugh when people post hundreds of threads harmful to McCain's or the GOP's interests, yet pretend to be "above it all" or "undecided." No sale.

I have no reason to doubt his veracity regarding that. I do think he has gotten confused over what his reasons were for voting for him in the first place.

[bbgun]

Maybe.

I bet if you search my posts, you'll find more posts directed angerly at Tony Romo's play than Brad Johnson's...

Its not because I think Brad Johnson is better. Or that I hate Tony. Or that I particularly like Brad.

I hold one of those players to a high standard. The other, I am pleasantly surprised if he does something well.

It could be as simple as that (for brain). I don't know. You'd have to ask him.

When you post nothing but harmful material on McCain or Bush, and pounce on anything potentially harmful to Obama like a rabid defense attorney, it doesn't take a detective to know where your sympathies lie. If there's anything worse than a shill, it's a dishonest shill. Be a man and own up to your very obvious prejudices. This "Golly gee, I wonder who I'm gonna vote for" act is insulting.

[Vintage]

When you post nothing but harmful material on McCain or Bush, and pounce on anything potentially harmful to Obama like a rabid defense attorney, it doesn't take a detective to know where your sympathies lie. If there's anything worse than a shill, it's a dishonest shill. Be a man and own up to your very obvious prejudices. This "Golly gee, I wonder who I'm gonna vote for" act is insulting.


Right.

Because if you post "harmful material on McCain or Bush", it means you are "pro-Obama."

[bbgun]

Right.

Because if you post "harmful material on McCain or Bush", it means you are "pro-Obama."

Well, that and eagerly defending Obama at every turn, even buying into the absurd "racism" charge. If you don't see a pattern of behavior here, there's not much I can do for you.

[BrAinPaiNt]

He's the one who first referenced that incendiary term. As opposed to the company he keeps, I don't think he's unpatriotic, just reflexively anti-American whenever a Republican is in the WH. Michael Medved makes a similar point in his blog today.



I have asked this before, without an answer, and I will ask it again.

Will you be voting for John McCain?

I will NOT be voting for Obama.

Hmm...for someone who is so leftist and libby why would I not vote for Obama, I would not have voted for Hillary if she would have won either.

Wonder what it is...hmmm.

Just because someone questions the government does not make them unpatriotic...the opposite is true, it makes them more patriotic because they realize they have a voice and the government should serve the people, not the other way around.

I don't like hardly anyone on either side of the aisle and Ron Paul was the ONLY one I really liked a great deal coming into the primaries...the one true conservative in the race I might add. I liked McCain as well but he has turned into bush part II so I will not be voting for him now.

So again it would seem that maybe it is you that is stuck on one party and not I. So once again...will you be voting McCain?


Some of you people are so willing to eat up whatever they throw out. Question it and they are not patriotic...or they hate america.

What the bald headed hades is that stupidity of hating America if you want America to go along with the document that defines her? It is not hating America..again it is the opposite. What is hating america is to let these power hungry politicians change things around so they have more power and they don't just take it...they give you a sales rap and you guys willingly give it away, you give it away even faster when it so happens to be the party you like.

Silly.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Suuuuure. I get a laugh when people post hundreds of threads harmful to McCain's or the GOP's interests, yet pretend to be "above it all" or "undecided." No sale.

I voted for bush the first time around and cajun and I were along the same fighting side politically wise. W ruined it for me and the movement by the republicans AWAY from what they were and should be has disgusted me.

So again...will you vote for McCain?

In my time in WV I have not voted for a Dem to rep my state and I have only voted for one Dem as a presidential candidate.

You are just caught up in the, if he bashes bush he must be a lefty, liberal, commie, hate america person. Which is not true at all.

[iceberg]

Just because someone questions the government does not make them unpatriotic...the opposite is true, it makes them more patriotic because they realize they have a voice and the government should serve the people, not the other way around.

i don't think either is a clear cut "winnner" bp. i do agree questioning the government is a good thing. but like any good thing it can be done for the wrong reasons. so while i agree, it's to a point.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Right.

Because if you post "harmful material on McCain or Bush", it means you are "pro-Obama."

To these guys...yes.

It is that whole you are with us or against us mentality.

I already know I am not voting for Obama. No chance I was going to vote for him or Hillary.

But I am flat out disgusted at how our government has became under bush, no it was not all bush's fault but he sure did not help matters.

Heck I liked McCain until he wound up switching stances like a spastic poser in order to garner votes...only thing is he used to be the anti-bush but now has become bush the 2.

Give me the McCain of a few years ago, give me Ron Paul who at the very least you can trust to stay conservative.

These current ads have been a disgrace. Instead of talking about the issues at hand they have made ads about being popular and not liking others. Heavens forbid they actually have some ads about the issues but they sound like a bunch of school yard catty girls whining and moaning about some other girl being popular and how people fawn over them.

Geez...is that really what our political process has came down to? I mean with the bush race it was who would you rather have a beer with and someone not named bush being an elitist. Geez everyone of these people are elitists, everyone of them have buttloads of money and think they know what is best for everyone and if anyone questions them on it they go after them.

Disgusting.

[BrAinPaiNt]

BB GUN I have asked this before, without an answer, and I will ask it again.

Will you be voting for John McCain?

[bbgun]

BB GUN I have asked this before, without an answer, and I will ask it again.

Will you be voting for John McCain?

Yes, I will hold my nose and vote for McCain, if only to spare the country four years of an Obama Administration conflating legitimate criticism with racism. Not sure why you'd care.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yes, I will hold my nose and vote for McCain, if only to spare the country four years of an Obama Administration conflating legitimate criticism with racism. Not sure why you'd care.

Just proves who the partisan hack is IMO.

I could never vote for someone I felt did not earn my vote nor who I thought I would have to "hold my nose" to vote for no matter the party. I guess people justify it with the lesser of two evils thing or the anybody but Obama thing, same thing people did with bush/kerry except the left was saying anyone but bush.

Yet you call me a lefty and so on.

Nice...seeing as I will not be voting for Obama and I refused to vote for Kerry as much as I loath bush.

[bbgun]

Just proves who the partisan hack is IMO.

Gee. I wonder what kind of abuse I would have been subjected to had I said "no." You mean to say your little query was really just a trap? Who could have seen that coming??

I could never vote for someone I felt did not earn my vote nor who I thought I would have to "hold my nose" to vote for no matter the party. I guess people justify it with the lesser of two evils thing or the anybody but Obama thing, same thing people did with bush/kerry except the left was saying anyone but bush.

I know you don't believe this, but this country is at war. One candidate is serious about its prosecution; the other is not. I'll overlook McCain's less that sterling conservative credentials and put the country first.

Yet you call me a lefty and so on.

Well, if the suit fits ...

Nice...seeing as I will not be voting for Obama and I refused to vote for Kerry as much as I loath bush.

Yes, me and millions of other "partisan hacks" will be doing our civic duty while you stand on the sidelines, sneer at us commoners, and pretend to be "too cool for school." But hey, I'm sure your vote for local dogcatcher will even things out.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Gee. I wonder what kind of abuse I would have been subjected to had I said "no." You mean to say your little query was really just a trap? Who could have seen that coming??

Just goes to show that as much as you call me a shill for the left...you are far worse because you are a shill for the right.

Difference is when they serve a big plate of steaming poo in front of me I turn it down, people like you lap it up and ask for more.


I know you don't believe this, but this country is at war. One candidate is serious about its prosecution; the other is not. I'll overlook McCain's less that sterling conservative credentials and put the country first.

:laugh1: I see you have been eating multiple plates of poo if you believe that stuff.



Well, if the suit fits ...

Actually the suit does not fit, but yours sure does fit you quite well.



Yes, me and millions of other "partisan hacks" will be doing our civic duty while you stand on the sidelines, sneer at us commoners, and pretend to be "too cool for school." But hey, I'm sure your vote for local dogcatcher will even things out.

Woohoo fall back on the elitist style comments, must be you listening to rove and rush so much you do it without thought.

Want to do your duty. Join the military and serve your country, until then spare me your patriotic questioning and shilling for the right while trying to call out others for it.

Maybe you should quit eating those plates full of steaming poo and think for yourself instead of what rove and crew tell you.

[Cajuncowboy]

Just goes to show that as much as you call me a shill for the left...you are far worse because you are a shill for the right.



So a far right shill is far worse than a shill for the left???? :confused:

[iceberg]

So a far right shill is far worse than a shill for the left???? :confused:

and one mans poo is another mans stew.

can be amazing that we assume the values we have are the values others have so "poo" to me is "poo" to you.

[Cajuncowboy]

and one mans poo is another mans stew.

can be amazing that we assume the values we have are the values others have so "poo" to me is "poo" to you.

You may have set a record the term poo being used in one post.

:bravo:

[iceberg]

You may have set a record the term poo being used in one post.

:bravo:

don't tease man...don't tease!!!

[bbgun]

So a far right shill is far worse than a shill for the left???? :confused:

Don't waste your breath on someone who's not going to vote. He's made himself irrelevant. And yet he thinks he can browbeat others for the way they vote. Strange.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So a far right shill is far worse than a shill for the left???? :confused:

Seeing that I am not a left shill...No.

Both are idiotic...especially when you consider the terrible candidates they trot out.

Can we not get a person of quality like Ronny to vote for anymore?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Don't waste your breath on someone who's not going to vote. He's made himself irrelevant. And yet he thinks he can browbeat others for the way they vote. Strange.

Who says I will not vote? I still may vote. I will not vote for Obama, doubt I vote for McCain unless he gets off the bush wannabe trip he is on. However I still may vote for Barr.

[bbgun]

Who says I will not vote? I still may vote. I will not vote for Obama, doubt I vote for McCain unless he gets off the bush wannabe trip he is on. However I still may vote for Barr.

:lmao2:

Like I said, "irrelevant."

[Vintage]

:lmao2:

Like I said, "irrelevant."



Yes, I will hold my nose and vote for McCain, if only to spare the country four years of an Obama Administration conflating legitimate criticism with racism. Not sure why you'd care.


Hmmm....

You are "holding your nose" to "vote for McCain"....and you are criticising Brain's willingness to vote for a candidate that reflects his personal values/political beliefs.

Awesomeness, right there....


That's just as stupid as the people who are voting for Obama/against Obama because he is black. If I were to search through your post history, I wouldn't find a post condemning that, would I?

[bbgun]

Hmmm....

You are "holding your nose" to "vote for McCain"....and you are criticising Brain's willingness to vote for a candidate that reflects his personal values/political beliefs.

Barr reflects his "personal values/political beliefs"? Since when? Show me all his pro-Bob Barr posts. It should be obvious to anyone with two brain cells that he invoked Barr's name to save his ***. Curiously, you're the only one buying it.

Awesomeness, right there....

gracias

That's just as stupid as the people who are voting for Obama/against Obama because he is black. If I were to search through your post history, I wouldn't find a post condemning that, would I?

Do whatever you want, J. Edgar. I prefer not to root through people's garbage.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Barr reflects his "personal values/political beliefs"? Since when? Show me all his pro-Bob Barr posts. It should be obvious to anyone with two brain cells that he invoked Barr's name to save his ***. Curiously, you're the only one buying it.



gracias



Do whatever you want, J. Edgar. I prefer not to root through people's garbage.

Actually I have mentioned Barrs name a few times. But the only reason I would consider him is that he is the closest in terms of policies as someone else who I have said MANY times I would vote for in a heart beat...That is Ron Paul.

But since Ron Paul is not an indie and did not win the repub nomination, which is funny since he and one other lesser known guy (duncan hunter), was the only real conservatives in the primary, then I would have to vote for Barr if I voted.

And again, my hope is that if McCain does indeed win, he switches away from being bush II.

However...I know that just does not fit into your mantra for me so it is hard for you to understand it...oh he bashes bush and any around him...boohoo.

[Vintage]

Barr reflects his "personal values/political beliefs"? Since when? Show me all his pro-Bob Barr posts. It should be obvious to anyone with two brain cells that he invoked Barr's name to save his ***. Curiously, you're the only one buying it.



gracias



Do whatever you want, J. Edgar. I prefer not to root through people's garbage.


You mean to tell me that you've never seen Brain complain about the increasing size/scope of gov't, gov't spending, corporate welfare, liberties being denied, constitutional rights being taken away?

That stuff is line with several ideals of the Libertarian Party, currently...

And IIRC, Barr is the Libertarian Candidate for President....

So thus....one can conclude....

[Vintage]

Actually I have mentioned Barrs name a few times. But the only reason I would consider him is that he is the closest in terms of policies as someone else who I have said MANY times I would vote for in a heart beat...That is Ron Paul.

But since Ron Paul is not an indie and did not win the repub nomination, which is funny since he and one other lesser known guy (duncan hunter), was the only real conservatives in the primary, then I would have to vote for Barr if I voted.

And again, my hope is that if McCain does indeed win, he switches away from being bush II.

However...I know that just does not fit into your mantra for me so it is hard for you to understand it...oh he bashes bush and any around him...boohoo.

Its funny though, when they call you "leftie".... because going by their terminology, you are to the right of them on a lot of these
issues.



It reminds me of the time Ben_N_Austin tried to say "lefties" couldn't be fascists.... Good times.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You mean to tell me that you've never seen Brain complain about the increasing size/scope of gov't, gov't spending, corporate welfare, liberties being denied, constitutional rights being taken away?

That stuff is line with several ideals of the Libertarian Party, currently...

And IIRC, Barr is the Libertarian Candidate for President....

So thus....one can conclude....

No...he sees that I bash bush and those like him so his mind automatically turns to the hand book and concludes that I am unpatriotic, hate america and want the Dems to win it all.

In other words, he is a partisan hack like I said before.:D

[Bach]

Just goes to show that as much as you call me a shill for the left...you are far worse because you are a shill for the right.



I don't think you're a shill for the left.

I do find it interesting though how you say you don't like Obama or McCain, yet the majority of your posts are strictly anti-McCain.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Its funny though, when they call you "leftie".... because going by their terminology, you are to the right of them on a lot of these issues.

The area I am lefty on would be some social and religious areas. The rest of the areas I fall more in line with the right. That is why normally I am always falling into the centrist role on almost all of those cheesy political quizzes. I am hard to pin point because I believe in things a great deal that are on both sides of the political spectrum.

I don't like bigger government.

I think Obamas idea of taking money from oil and giving it to the people will not happen. I don't like big oil, but that is wrong either way. I think if elected he will cave to big oil after getting his wallet fattened.

The only reason I am against drilling off shore or in anwar right now is because it does not come with guarentees that the US would be the only country that oil could be used in (although I am not sure if that makes me a leftist or a stingy arse), that other alternatives would get the same tax breaks, incentives and importance. And the idea that as much as these guys babble on, it will take some years, a great deal of money and we still will not see a significant drop in the price.

But if it gets us to other alternative energies and also gets us off depending on foreign oil, that is a good thing.

I think government should be transparent as much as possible and I think we should honor the intent of the constitution in making sure we have oversite and clear lines of what the 3 branches can and can not do.


My biggest problem now days is these idiots in the white house and on the hill.

They have gotten so smug, arrogant, complacent that they actually believe the American people will fall for their stupid sales rap...and sadly they are right because it seems to work.

The idea of...Hey I can have a beer with that guy, or hey that guy eats fancy sounding lettuce and fancy tea so don't vote for him...while at the same time the guy saying that is jet setting with his rich heiress wife and sporting $500 italian shoes. I mean the hypocrisy is so astounding yet these guys will lap every bit of that all day poo platter special and ask for more.

A fat, bloated government that keeps taking and taking while the people just keep giving and giving.

Boggles the mind sometimes.

[bbgun]

I don't think you're a shill for the left.

I do find it interesting though how you say you don't like Obama or McCain, yet the majority of your posts are strictly anti-McCain.

That's because Brain's a liar. Yesterday, he was a fallen Republican. Today, he's a Libertarian. Who knows what identity he'll be slipping into tomorrow. His new-found hardon for fringe candidates is highly amusing, but he was trapped when he eliminated Obama or McCain from consideration, so he had to come up with someone. Sadly, Barr was the best he could do.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't think you're a shill for the left.

I do find it interesting though how you say you don't like Obama or McCain, yet the majority of your posts are strictly anti-McCain.

When McCain's Campaign runs those idiotic ads...you will get that from me.

When McCain turns from what he was into what he is, a bush guy, you get that from me.

I make no bones about it...I don't like bush and McCain has went from a favorite to someone that has done a 180 from what he was into what he is now.

I had more hopes for McCain and he has dashed those with his turn around.

I had no hopes for Obama because I don't agree with a great deal of his proposals...especially Universal Health Care.

We can barely pay for SS and he wants to turn the whole country into SS..makes sense to me...not.

So...If I have high hopes for someone, only to see them do a 180...that makes me mad at them, just as it did with bush after I voted for him originally.

[BrAinPaiNt]

That's because Brain's a liar. Yesterday, he was a fallen Republican. Today, he's a Libertarian. Who knows what identity he'll be slipping into tomorrow. His new-found hardon for fringe candidates is highly amusing, but he was trapped when he eliminated Obama or McCain from consideration, so he had to come up with someone. Sadly, Barr was the best he could do.

No...I have said Paul all along.

You were just not around...so as usual you have no clue what you are talking about hack boy.

[bbgun]

Actually I have mentioned Barrs name a few times. But the only reason I would consider him is that he is the closest in terms of policies as someone else who I have said MANY times I would vote for in a heart beat...That is Ron Paul.

But since Ron Paul is not an indie and did not win the repub nomination, which is funny since he and one other lesser known guy (duncan hunter), was the only real conservatives in the primary, then I would have to vote for Barr if I voted.

And again, my hope is that if McCain does indeed win, he switches away from being bush II.

However...I know that just does not fit into your mantra for me so it is hard for you to understand it...oh he bashes bush and any around him...boohoo.

Ron Paul? The man who basically intimated that this country had it coming on 9-11? That is was justifiable blowback for our eeeeevil foreign policy? Why am I not surprised that you fell into his loving embrace? Then again, non-serious candidates tend to attract non-serious people.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Ron Paul? The man who basically intimated that this country had it coming on 9-11? That is was justifiable blowback for our eeeeevil foreign policy? Why am I not surprised that you fell into his loving embrace? Then again, non-serious candidates tend to attract non-serious people.

There is a great deal of truth to what he said, you and your ilk just refuse to learn from history. It did not have it coming, but we are darn sure not innocent because we help created those monsters.

But you keep on eating that poo platter hack boy. One day you will finally figure out that they don't have your interest at heart, they only have their wallets interest at heart.

[Vintage]

Ron Paul? The man who basically intimated that this country had it coming on 9-11? That is was justifiable blowback for our eeeeevil foreign policy? Why am I not surprised that you fell into his loving embrace? Then again, non-serious candidates tend to attract non-serious people.


He was arguing about blowback, which got ignored by the overwhelming "emotional response" that 9-11 still causes (and rightfully so).

At some point though, we need to look at our foreign policy, the decisions we made, and the AFFECTS of those decisions.

Which was what he was trying to argue....

[BrAinPaiNt]

He was arguing about blowback, which got ignored by the overwhelming "emotional response" that 9-11 still causes (and rightfully so).

At some point though, we need to look at our foreign policy, the decisions we made, and the AFFECTS of those decisions.

Which was what he was trying to argue....

WHAT!?!?!?!

You are crazy, you are a loon....Ron Paul is an evil man that said we deserved 9/11. You sir are not a patriot and you sir love the enemy.

;)

[bbgun]

There is a great deal of truth to what he said, you and your ilk just refuse to learn from history. It did not have it coming, but we are darn sure not innocent because we help created those monsters.

:eek:

You're a big fan of the phrase "That's all I need to know about you." Well, right back at ya. In the span of 24 hours, you've gone from humble dissent to pimping for the murderous actions of terrorists. I will not waste my time debating a fifth columnist who thinks that Al Qaeda had "legitimate grievances" or "a point." Take your obscene, hurtful, willfully inaccurate "root causes" argument and shove it where the sun don't shine. You and Vin are the personification of "The Enemy Within." But don't worry: the courts will make sure that Bushco asks for permission before tapping your calls.

[BrAinPaiNt]

:eek:

You're a big fan of the phrase "That's all I need to know about you." Well, right back at ya. In the span of 24 hours, you've gone from humble dissent to pimping for the murderous actions of terrorists. I will not waste my time debating a fifth columnist who thinks that Al Qaeda had "legitimate grievances" or "a point." Take your obscene, hurtful, willfully inaccurate "root causes" argument and shove it where the sun don't shine. You and Vin are the personification of "The Enemy Within." But don't worry: the courts will make sure that Bushco asks for permission before tapping your calls.

Only because you are too silly to understand what he meant and why he said it...because you have your head too far up a parties backside.

You are so easily swayed by these guys, you sir are part of the problem with this government. Because you buy into their simplistic ideas of salesmanship.

You are the exact type of person they love to use. They don't care about you, they just want to use you...and you let them with ease.

Foolish.

So you can rant and rave all you want but the simple fact is you don't get what he said and why he said it and sadly that is the same type of mentality that will have us in the same pickle 20 years down the road and wanting to go to war with yet another middle eastern country...probably someone like Iraq again.

[bbgun]

Only because you are too silly to understand what he meant and why he said it...because you have your head too far up a parties backside.

You are so easily swayed by these guys, you sir are part of the problem with this government. Because you buy into their simplistic ideas of salesmanship.

You are the exact type of person they love to use. They don't care about you, they just want to use you...and you let them with ease.

Foolish.

So you can rant and rave all you want but the simple fact is you don't get what he said and why he said it and sadly that is the same type of mentality that will have us in the same pickle 20 years down the road and wanting to go to war with yet another middle eastern country...probably someone like Iraq again.

Millions of calm, collected Republicans understood exactly what he said and meant, which explains why he is not the GOP nominee. You, on the other hand, get a a hardon when he says this country is partially culpable for the 3,000+ deaths on 9-11. Conclusion: you're despicable. The next time you send away for an autographed photo of bin Laden, let the Pentagon know the mailing address. It's the least you can do as a so-called "American."

[BrAinPaiNt]

Millions of calm, collected Republicans understood exactly what he said and meant, which explains why he is not the GOP nominee. You, on the other hand, get a a hardon when he says this country is partially culpable for the 3,000+ deaths on 9-11. Conclusion: you're despicable. The next time you send away for an autographed photo of bin Laden, let the Pentagon know the mailing address. It's the least you can do as a so-called "American."

Oh...right out of the party playbook...good boy...good boy, here is your din din. Lap it up like a good partisan dog.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b133/BrAinPaiNt/bbgun.jpg

:laugh2:

[Vintage]

More crap from bbgun.

There's a shocker.

How long before he rips a page out of Ben_N_Austins playbook of "Neocon" and "muslim hater" type insults?

[bbgun]

More crap from bbgun.

There's a shocker.

How long before he rips a page out of Ben_N_Austins playbook of "Neocon" and "muslim hater" type insults?

***Report Posters Who Cross the Line***

Vintage, for comparing me to Ben. That was low.

[Vintage]

Here's the larger viewpoint of why Ron Paul's warning of blowback is important:

In the past, we have funded and aided certain groups (such as Afghanistan against the Soviet invasion) that in turn, used those weapons against us.

Every time a government makes policy (be it foreign policy, domestic policy, or economic policy) there are unintentional consequences of said policy (ie: blowback).

Ron Paul's point was that the foreign policy initiatives in the Middle East (support of the Mujihadeen, Saudi Arabia's decision to use UN/US troops against Iraq in Kuwait instead of the Mujihadeen, the constant siding with Israel, etc).

Now... whether or not we were "right" in doing any/all of this is irrelevant to this discussion. What IS relevant is that it HAS radicalized sects of populations in the Middle East. What DOESN'T matter is whether or not WE feel they are legitimized. What matters is if THEY feel they are legitimized. Because if they feel they are legitimized, THEY will take action. If they don't, the won't. They felt legitimized and took action on 9-11.

(I will reiterate: I do NOT support what they did. IMO, it was blatantly wrong. However, ignoring the fact that THEY felt they were OK in doing so gets us nowhere closer to helping bring about a realistic, successful solution)

So why the concern over what they feel?

Because you have to understand their position in order to combat it.

Just killing them over and over again will get us nowhere. We need to target the REASONS to end this. People feel politically oppressed over there and their gov'ts don't do enough to help them.....they then turn to terrorists, who claim to be interested in helping them. Yes, the hardline terrorists will never be swayed. And ultimately, death is the only way to end their demand for destruction. But they rely on a lot of "lesser" terrorists who were swayed into their line of thinking.... these are the people (the ones who can be influenced one way or another) that can and should be targetted.

Solution: Target these disenfranchised groups. Information and education can be used against the terrorists in their recruitment. Infastructure building, like in Iraq, shows that we care about other people, are willing to help, and that we can do more with the help of the Iraqi people/Iraqi gov't than a group of terrorists ever could. It stablizes a region, legitimizes the Iraqi gov't, and delegitimizes terrorism in one swoop.

Yes, killing of terrorists is needed. But its basically "treading" water unless you can shrink their recruitment pool. And you do that by targeting disenfranchised groups, working with other nations to secure their borders, and other means of soft power (infastructure building, information, education, etc).

Ron Paul's point was that several foreign policy decisions had blowback that led to 9-11.

And it doesn't matter if the terrorists were "wrong" in doing so. What matters is that they decided to act. And the reasons they cited for acting.

We need to combat the causes of terrorism too; not just the effects. Al-Qaeda is an effect.

[zrinkill]

We need to combat the causes of terrorism too; not just the effects. Al-Qaeda is an effect.

That what I have always said ..... give people something to lose and they will not throw their life away.

[DragonCowboy]

Brain, honest question, how do you plan on voting?

I also liked Paul, but I really have no idea who to cast my vote for now. A write-in for Paul or a vote for Barr just seems like a wasted vote.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain, honest question, how do you plan on voting?

I also liked Paul, but I really have no idea who to cast my vote for now. A write-in for Paul or a vote for Barr just seems like a wasted vote.

I will vote either vote for Barr or not vote.

There is still a slight, VERY slight, chance that McCain can do something that makes me think he has changed back to the Old McCain and I might vote for him.

[bbgun]

Brain, honest question, how do you plan on voting?

Obama. Everything else is dishonest grandstanding.

[Bach]

There is still a slight, VERY slight, chance that McCain can do something that makes me think he has changed back to the Old McCain and I might vote for him.

How much older do you want him to be?

[Doomsday101]

I will vote either vote for Barr or not vote.

There is still a slight, VERY slight, chance that McCain can do something that makes me think he has changed back to the Old McCain and I might vote for him.

So what key issues does Barr stand behind that would sway your vote for him or is this more a symbolic vote on your part? Looking at Barr past history and having conversation with you I find it hard to believe that your vote for Barr is based on common believes

[Viper]

Brain,

McCain is Bush 3 is Obama's talking points.

I'm curious, how was McCain different from Bush, how is he the same as Bush now? Not long ago you did like him, he's running for President now so it's bad, bad, bad McCain. Actually alot of the Dem's on this board liked McCain, until he drew near to the Presidency.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Obama. Everything else is dishonest grandstanding.

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

[BrAinPaiNt]

How much older do you want him to be?

:laugh2: Was not talking about his age.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So what key issues does Barr stand behind that would sway your vote for him or is this more a symbolic vote on your part? Looking at Barr past history and having conversation with you I find it hard to believe that your vote for Barr is based on common believes

Smaller government.
Not taking away our freedoms.
Less entitlement programs.
Better support for our veterans
Against Eminent Domain
Secure the borders FIRST
Non federal involvement in Gay Marriage


Some of the same issues as Paul. Although I know Paul more and think he seems to be an honest individual.

Of course these issues mean something to me but frankly it will be a symbolic vote if I go that direction because there is no chance he would win.

However I could not see myself voting for Nadar nor that crazy Cynthia McKinney.

[Doomsday101]

Smaller government.
Not taking away our freedoms.
Less entitlement programs.
Better support for our veterans
Against Eminent Domain
Secure the borders FIRST
Non federal involvement in Gay Marriage


Some of the same issues as Paul. Although I know Paul more and think he seems to be an honest individual.

Of course these issues mean something to me but frankly it will be a symbolic vote if I go that direction because there is no chance he would win.

However I could not see myself voting for Nadar nor that crazy Cynthia McKinney.


That is not how he voted when he was in congress. If he was under the same microscope as McCain and Obama the phrase flip flopper would clearly apply to Barr. Is he changing his tune to be different now because as a member of congress he was against Gay adoptions he was one of the key figure on the war against drugs now he is for legalization? There are several issues when you look at his past voting record that does not jive with what he is saying today. Here are just a few example of a shifts in positions. If you are going to slam McCain then at least go back and look at Barr because he is shifted like crazy on many issues.

Bob Barr on Civil Rights
Click here for 10 full quotes on Civil Rights OR other candidates on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.
Criticizes efforts to restrict rights of homosexuals. (Jun 2008)
Applying habeas in Guantanamo reaffirms fundamental liberty. (Jun 2008)
Authored Defense of Marriage Act. (May 2008)
Threats to liberty in post-9/11 world require libertarianism. (May 2008)
The Nanny State is getting increasingly intrusive. (Apr 2008)
Took post with ACLU based on fundamental common interests. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Sponsored bill for "Privacy Impact Statement" on new rules. (Apr 2002)

Voted NO on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime. (Jun 1999)
Voted NO on maintaining right of habeas corpus in Death Penalty Appeals. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on making federal death penalty appeals harder. (Feb 1995)
More prisons, more enforcement, effective death penalty. (Sep 1994)


Bob Barr on Drugs
Click here for 8 full quotes on Drugs OR other candidates on Drugs OR background on Drugs.
Favors the legalization of marijuana for medical purposes. (Jun 2008)
No national nannies: leave smokers alone. (Jun 2008)
The Clintons welcomed drug criminals into White House. (Jul 2004)
Illegal drug traffickers are murderers. (Jul 2004)
In Congress, a strong supporter of the War on Drugs. (Dec 2003)
Voted YES on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism. (Sep 2001)
Voted YES on prohibiting needle exchange & medical marijuana in DC. (Oct 1999)
Ban federal funding for needle-exchange programs. (Mar 1999)


Bob Barr on Education
Click here for 7 full quotes on Education OR other candidates on Education OR background on Education.
Don't let California home schooling ban spread. (Apr 2008)
Voted YES on requiring states to test students. (May 2001)
Voted YES on allowing vouchers in DC schools. (Aug 1998)
Voted YES on vouchers for private & parochial schools. (Nov 1997)
Let schools display the words "God Bless America". (Oct 2001)
Supports requiring schools to allow prayer. (Jan 2001)
Supports a Constitutional Amendment for school prayer. (May 1997)

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain,

McCain is Bush 3 is Obama's talking points.

I'm curious, how was McCain different from Bush, how is he the same as Bush now? Not long ago you did like him, he's running for President now so it's bad, bad, bad McCain. Actually alot of the Dem's on this board liked McCain, until he drew near to the Presidency.

He used to be opposed to some of the bush initiatives. Until he decided to run and he gravitated right back to them in hopes to pander to his base.

But there are 4 things that turned me around on him.

1. Getting people on his campaign staff that worked for bush, getting Rove's protege and getting advice from Rove. I find most of those people scum and I think truth be told so does McCain...but in order to pander to his base and try to win he sold out his beliefs and changed his stances on a number of issues. Now to be fair, maybe he was a flip flopper all along and I just did not see it before. I know many here have been down on him long before he started to run for President this time around.

2. In conjunction with #1. He completely turned around on his stance about off shore drilling. I don't think it was just about the votes. I think it also had to do with some huge increase in contributions from big oil. Once again, maybe he was like this before, getting paid off, but I just did not see it before.

3. Again in conjunction with #1. These ads against obama with the two girls, another one talking about Obama eating a funny lettuce, drinking a funny tea and going to the gym on a regular basis. Honestly I thought he and his wife claimed they were not going to run a negative campaign. That is my naivety for believing them. However it is even worse than that...it is silly and IMO it speaks out to the lowest denominator of the american voter. If someone is not voting for someone because they eat a certain lettuce or drinks a certain tea...they might want to reevaluate their priorities for voting.

4. This one probably turned me more than the other three. I thought for once we were going to get a Presidential candidate that truly cared for the troops. One that would work hard to make sure they got better benefits while in the service and better care once they have done their time. However he has been a big disappointment in that area and some of his recent stances have disgusted me in this area.


Again I say...maybe it is my fault to begin with. Maybe I gave him too much credit for not being a normal politician. Maybe I deluded myself that he would be different. I heard many talk of him in a negative light before all of this and thought they just did not like him because he would work across party lines at times. I guess I give them credit for knowing more about him than I did.

[Viper]

Thanks for the reply Brain.

I'm not sure that makes him Bush 3, but I do understand your point of view a little better.

[Doomsday101]

Thanks for the reply Brain.

I'm not sure that makes him Bush 3, but I do understand your point of view a little better.

If McCain is Bush III then Barr must be Bush lite. :laugh2:

[BrAinPaiNt]

If McCain is Bush III then Barr must be Bush lite. :laugh2:

Bush II...not III.

I did not have as many problems with Papa Bush. Kind of liked him and thought he got a bum deal on the no new taxes line.