Hey Peplaw...

[VietCowboy]

Hey, I saw this interesting youtube video...
question...if abortion is illegal, what do you think would happen to the women who get abortions illegally? Would the penalty be different for someone underage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo

[ChldsPlay]

Hey, I saw this interesting youtube video...
question...if abortion is illegal, what do you think would happen to the women who get abortions illegally? Would the penalty be different for someone underage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo

Same as voluntary manslaughter at the least, maybe up to murder 1, IMHO.

[masomenos]

How exactly would you go about proving that a woman had an illegal abortion?

[VietCowboy]

How exactly would you go about proving that a woman had an illegal abortion?

maybe if she used an equipment that isn't safe, and is now bleeding and in the hospital, and the doctors determine she had just aborted? that's one scenerio.

[peplaw06]

Wow a call out thread for lil ole me?? I'm flattered.

I'm loading up the video right now, so I haven't watched it. But as always, it depends on the circumstances. If (and I believe when) abortion is outlawed by some of the states, the enforcement of it is going to start with the "doctors" who perform the procedures.

Like most laws are enforced.... take aim at the source or the means for the lawbreaking, and work your way down.

[bbgun]

Think I'll change my name to Harvardlaw. That'll show you rubes.

[jrumann59]

Think I'll change my name to Harvardlaw. That'll show you rubes.


Well I will change mine to CCLaw meaning Community College.

:bang2:

[VietCowboy]

Wow a call out thread for lil ole me?? I'm flattered.

I'm loading up the video right now, so I haven't watched it. But as always, it depends on the circumstances. If (and I believe when) abortion is outlawed by some of the states, the enforcement of it is going to start with the "doctors" who perform the procedures.

Like most laws are enforced.... take aim at the source or the means for the lawbreaking, and work your way down.

well, I only called you out cuz you know a lot about the law, and we've had a discussion in the past. I know obviously not all states would make abortion illegal, just wondering what would happen, in this day and age, to a woman or girl who is found to have had an abortion illegally, whether by someone else or by her own hand.

Could you prosecute an international drug company that mails her the abortion pill for example or a drug store for selling components of drugs that can be concocted to kill a fetus? just lots and lots of questions regarding how a state might go about it when and if they illegalize abortion.

[jrumann59]

well, I only called you out cuz you know a lot about the law, and we've had a discussion in the past. I know obviously not all states would make abortion illegal, just wondering what would happen, in this day and age, to a woman or girl who is found to have had an abortion illegally, whether by someone else or by her own hand.

Could you prosecute an international drug company that mails her the abortion pill for example or a drug store for selling components of drugs that can be concocted to kill a fetus? just lots and lots of questions regarding how a state might go about it when and if they illegalize abortion.

Why they go after gun companies for making guns that can be modified to make them "illegal". The precedence has been set. I don't know why the gov't hasn't gone after the toy companies that used chinese factories that used lead paint.

[VietCowboy]

Why they go after gun companies for making guns that can be modified to make them "illegal". The precedence has been set. I don't know why the gov't hasn't gone after the toy companies that used chinese factories that used lead paint.

we're going after the chinese companies that are making the formula milk with something in it that are causing babies to have kidney stones or something.

I hope we go after Dog food and supplies companies that've caused a lot of animal deaths.

[peplaw06]

My guess is that doctors who perform it will get a stiffer sentence, and be prosecuted first. But I'd imagine a woman who gets an abortion could at least face a sentence similar to a manslaughter charge like childsplay said.

I doubt it would be a capital murder charge, or death penalty worthy, but men have been given the death penalty for doing the same thing.

[peplaw06]

Think I'll change my name to Harvardlaw. That'll show you rubes.:laugh2:

Harvard's overrated. ;)

[VietCowboy]

My guess is that doctors who perform it will get a stiffer sentence, and be prosecuted first. But I'd imagine a woman who gets an abortion could at least face a sentence similar to a manslaughter charge like childsplay said.

I doubt it would be a capital murder charge, or death penalty worthy, but men have been given the death penalty for doing the same thing.

so if someone goes to Canada or outside of the US to get an abortion (or a state that allows abortion), will they be prosecuted when they come back?

[Viper]

Maybe we should just use Gore's idea for stopping global warming, kill more babies!:rolleyes:

[peplaw06]

so if someone goes to Canada or outside of the US to get an abortion (or a state that allows abortion), will they be prosecuted when they come back?Guess that would be up to the state.

[ThaBigP]

You guys need to settle down a bit. Remember, up until Roe V Wade in '73, most states outlawed abortion, and had for the longest time. There were no witch hunts to scour through medical records, giving pregnancy tests, to all women who were suspected of GI or abdominal problems. The biggest purpose of the ban was in preventing doctors from performing the procedure except under certain exceptional circumstances. Doctors who were caught giving illegal abortions generally had their licenses revoked, with the worst offenders facing criminal charges. That was pretty much it, by and large. Also, like I said before, *if* R v W is overturned, it will mean nothing. It will be up to each state, then, to decide what to do about the issue. Some will likely make the practice illegal, others will likely keep it legal, and everything in between. Overturning R v W does not write new state law.

[ThaBigP]

The only exception to my above post (about various state laws), would hinge on the reasoning for the ruling. *IF* the Suprime Court were to overturn R v W by ruling that the unborn are entitled to Constitutional protections, then that would prohibit states from legalizing it. It would be the same as a state trying to re-legalize slavery - no-can-do. There would be ample grounds for such a ruling, as the preamble to the Constitution reads thusly:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

pos·ter·i·ty (pŏ-stěr'ĭ-tē) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. Future generations: "Everything he writes is consigned to posterity" (Joyce Carol Oates).
2. All of a person's descendants.

[Danny White]

You guys need to settle down a bit. Remember, up until Roe V Wade in '73, most states outlawed abortion, and had for the longest time. There were no witch hunts to scour through medical records, giving pregnancy tests, to all women who were suspected of GI or abdominal problems. The biggest purpose of the ban was in preventing doctors from performing the procedure except under certain exceptional circumstances. Doctors who were caught giving illegal abortions generally had their licenses revoked, with the worst offenders facing criminal charges. That was pretty much it, by and large. Also, like I said before, *if* R v W is overturned, it will mean nothing. It will be up to each state, then, to decide what to do about the issue. Some will likely make the practice illegal, others will likely keep it legal, and everything in between. Overturning R v W does not write new state law.
This is right on.

Very few people, to the best of my knowledge, actually advocate putting women in jail for having an "illegal" abortion.

Most often the penalties are directed at doctors who would perform illegal abortions.

[VietCowboy]

This is right on.

Very few people, to the best of my knowledge, actually advocate putting women in jail for having an "illegal" abortion.

Most often the penalties are directed at doctors who would perform illegal abortions.

I guess my questions more about state's rights, jurisdiction type thing. Can a doctor in a state that allows abortion be tried for performing it to someone who's from a state that doesn't if she travels to his state to do it?

Kinda like that HBO Jerry talking to Glenn's agent and we had this thing whether or not California laws or Texas laws or wherever it was Glenn's agent was calling from regarding phone recording would supercede all others.

When 2 states conflict on their laws, who decides which state's law will be observed?

[ThaBigP]

I guess my questions more about state's rights, jurisdiction type thing. Can a doctor in a state that allows abortion be tried for performing it to someone who's from a state that doesn't if she travels to his state to do it?

Kinda like that HBO Jerry talking to Glenn's agent and we had this thing whether or not California laws or Texas laws or wherever it was Glenn's agent was calling from regarding phone recording would supercede all others.

When 2 states conflict on their laws, who decides which state's law will be observed?

When it is a state law issue, the state where *it* occured (whatver *it* is, abortion or a car crash, etc) has jurisdiction, and their laws apply. In fact, if you are charged with a crime you committed in state "A" and you haul butt back to state "B", state "B" will send your butt back to state "A" to stand trial and serve your sentence. So, with the issue of abortion, if some states have it banned and others do not, an abortion in a state that allows it is legal. Even if your own state bans it and you went across state lines to where it was legal. You cannot be prosecuted by your state for doing something in another state that was perfectly legal there. The only time this does not apply is if you break the law crossing state lines, which means the crime must be in commission as you cross. Running drugs from one state to another, for example.

[Hostile]

I guess my questions more about state's rights, jurisdiction type thing. Can a doctor in a state that allows abortion be tried for performing it to someone who's from a state that doesn't if she travels to his state to do it?

Kinda like that HBO Jerry talking to Glenn's agent and we had this thing whether or not California laws or Texas laws or wherever it was Glenn's agent was calling from regarding phone recording would supercede all others.

When 2 states conflict on their laws, who decides which state's law will be observed?If you live in Texas, but commit a murder in California, will you be tried in Texas under their laws? If someone travels to another state to have an abortion legally in that state why on earth would their resident state want to prosecute them? That doesn't make a lick of sense. It is a complete waste of tax payer money. Also, like was stated above, the laws went after physicians practicing illegally. Why would that be any different if Roe vs. Wade were to be overturned? Because saying it pushes the panic button harder?

[VietCowboy]

When it is a state law issue, the state where *it* occured (whatver *it* is, abortion or a car crash, etc) has jurisdiction, and their laws apply. In fact, if you are charged with a crime you committed in state "A" and you haul butt back to state "B", state "B" will send your butt back to state "A" to stand trial and serve your sentence. So, with the issue of abortion, if some states have it banned and others do not, an abortion in a state that allows it is legal. Even if your own state bans it and you went across state lines to where it was legal. You cannot be prosecuted by your state for doing something in another state that was perfectly legal there. The only time this does not apply is if you break the law crossing state lines, which means the crime must be in commission as you cross. Running drugs from one state to another, for example.

That makes sense. I hope you won't mind then, if I ask another question about state jurisdiction (not related to abortion)?

Let's say a therapist and client are holding session by the phone and computer. some time in, the client becomes profoundly depressed and confesses to the therapist that he has been sexually abusing children and the client becomes acutely suicidal and takes his life. The client's family sues the therapist for malpractice:
some issues:
- do the laws regarding privacy, confidentiality, privilege, mandatory reporting (of child abuse for example) prevail in the state where the therapist lives apply or do such laws of the state which the client lives apply? What happens if the laws in one state require that certain info be kept confidential whereas the laws of the other state require that the info be reported?

[ThaBigP]

That makes sense. I hope you won't mind then, if I ask another question about state jurisdiction (not related to abortion)?

Let's say a therapist and client are holding session by the phone and computer. some time in, the client becomes profoundly depressed and confesses to the therapist that he has been sexually abusing children and the client becomes acutely suicidal and takes his life. The client's family sues the therapist for malpractice:
some issues:
- do the laws regarding privacy, confidentiality, privilege, mandatory reporting (of child abuse for example) prevail in the state where the therapist lives apply or do such laws of the state which the client lives apply? What happens if the laws in one state require that certain info be kept confidential whereas the laws of the other state require that the info be reported?

Pardon the blank expression on my face, but I'm not an attorney, nor a judge, but I'll give it a try anyway :rolleyes: . You have, though, introduced two different legal problems. The child abuse issue is a criminal matter, whereas the action brought by the client's family is a civil one. For the criminal matter, the jurisdiction would fall to the state in which the crimes took place (where the client lived), unless the client was abusing children driving back and forth across state lines, then the FBI would likely be involved, as it would become a federal matter. As for the civil trial, I'm not quite sure who would have jurisdiction. Remember, the therepist would have to be licensed in the state the client lived in order to legally provide those services to someone living there. And, since technically he's providing services in the client's state (even over phone/computer, the "problems" he's solving reside with the client, in his/her state), I would have to presume that the client's state would have jurisdiction, but I'm not certain of that. Again, this is just my attempt at thinking through this out loud.

[peplaw06]

That makes sense. I hope you won't mind then, if I ask another question about state jurisdiction (not related to abortion)?

Let's say a therapist and client are holding session by the phone and computer. some time in, the client becomes profoundly depressed and confesses to the therapist that he has been sexually abusing children and the client becomes acutely suicidal and takes his life. The client's family sues the therapist for malpractice:
some issues:
- do the laws regarding privacy, confidentiality, privilege, mandatory reporting (of child abuse for example) prevail in the state where the therapist lives apply or do such laws of the state which the client lives apply? What happens if the laws in one state require that certain info be kept confidential whereas the laws of the other state require that the info be reported?

P is right regarding the criminal matter.

On the malpractice claim, if the state that the therapist is licensed in requires him to report confessions of child abuse, then IMO he is okay.

In order for him to be sued in another state, if he counseled the guy in his state and didn't say have an office in the other state (which is unlikely if he's only licensed in his state), then there will be serious jurisdictional hoops to jump through. If he doesn't practice in the other state or advertise there or whatever, he's probably not subject to suit there.