PDA

View Full Version : Gettin a little scary now...


Heisenberg
09-26-2008, 12:19 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/25/AR2008092504311.html

Gut Check

By Steven Pearlstein
Friday, September 26, 2008; D01



You're angry. I'm angry. House Republicans are angry. We're all angry at having to put up huge amounts of cash to rescue a financial system because a lot of very rich people rolled the dice with other people's money and lost.

Now let me tell you something very simple and very important: You can try to prevent a financial meltdown or you can teach Wall Street a lesson, but you can't do both at the same time.

So which will it be?

You say you want straight talk -- no spin, no bull, no sugar-coating. Okay, here goes.

First, stop fixating on Wall Street executives -- there will be time to deal with them later. Even if you clawed back every dime they made over the past decade, it would come to several billions of dollars. That's a rounding error compared with the size of the financial problem we're facing here.

Second, we need to act quickly. The financial situation is now downright scary. Don't look at the stock market -- that's not where the problem is. The problem is in the credit markets, which are quickly freezing. I won't bore you with technical indicators like Libor and Treasury swap spreads, but if you talk to people who work these markets every day, as I have, they report that the money markets are in worse shape than they were last August, or even during the currency crises of 1998.

Banks and big corporations and even money-market funds are hoarding cash, refusing to lend it out for a day or a week or a month. Even the best companies are having trouble floating bonds at reasonable rates. And the shadow banking system -- the market in asset-backed securities that ultimately supplies the capital for most home loans, car loans, college loans -- is almost completely shut down.

People are so nervous, and there is so much distrust, that all it would take is one more hit to trigger the modern-day equivalent of a nationwide bank run. Financial institutions would fail, part of your savings would be wiped out, jobs would be lost and a lot of economic activity would grind to a halt. Such a debacle would cost us a lot more than $700 billion.

Third, the latest proposal hammered out between the Treasury and Democratic leaders won't cost anywhere near $700 billion unless we get a 1930s-like Depression, in which case we'll have much bigger problems to worry about. Depending on how the program is managed, and how things turn out with the economy and the housing market, the best guess is that the government could wind up either losing or making a couple of hundred billion dollars. The final tab is simply unknowable -- it depends on how much the government winds up paying for the securities it buys from banks and other financial institutions, and what price it resells them at after the market and the economy recover.

Fourth, this isn't primarily a bailout for Wall Street -- it's an attempt to jump-start certain credit markets that have broken to the point that nobody is buying, driving down prices to the point where they are well below any reasonable estimate of their long-term economic value.

The basic idea is to use special auctions to recreate a market for these securities with many competing sellers and one buyer (the Treasury), so that a credible "market" price can be established. If that price turns out to be below what those securities are now valued at on the banks' balance sheets, then banks will have to take the loss. If the price turns out to be higher, then banks may be able to record gains. The point isn't to bail out institutions that have made bad bets and suffered credit losses, but to provide a buyer of last resort so the market can begin pricing again.

Are there other ways to structure this market rescue? Sure. You could try to deal with the underlying problem by taking additional measures to prevent foreclosures. Or you could create a mechanism for the government to invest fresh capital in troubled banks, in exchange for stock. In fact, both approaches are possible and envisioned under the administration proposal now under discussion. But neither, by itself, is likely to quickly restore confidence in the financial system and relieve the current crisis.

My own suggestion would be to structure the rescue around a new government-owned corporation that would be capitalized, initially, with $100 billion in taxpayer funds. The company would use auctions or other mechanisms to buy the troubled securities from banks and other regulated institutions, but instead of paying for them in cash, the government would swap them for an equal number of preferred shares in the new company. (Preferred shares are something of a cross between a bond and common stock.) Those preferred shares would pay a government-guaranteed dividend and could be redeemed by the government at any time. But they could also be used by banks to augment the capital they are required to maintain by regulators.

The beauty of this arrangement is that, rather than protecting taxpayers by having the government take an ownership stake in hundreds of privately owned banks, it would be the banks that would own a stake of the government's rescue vehicle. The government would suffer the first $100 billion in losses from buying and selling the asset-backed securities, but any further losses would be borne by the other shareholders. And should the rescue effort actually wind up making a profit, then the banks would share in that as well.

I mention this idea to make a final point -- namely that it is important to give the Treasury secretary and the people he hires a good deal of flexibility in designing and experimenting with the mechanics of this rescue. The reality is that these guys will be operating in uncharted territory, making things up as they go along. That means there are no assurances that any particular approach will work and no assurances that this will be the final solution. It also means that, just as we entrust generals to fight a war, we are going to have to trust the Treasury to find a way out of this crisis.

ScipioCowboy
09-26-2008, 12:28 AM
Do you ever sense that much of this crisis is fearmongering for the sake of pushing someone's agenda?

Just a suggestion that I'm throwing out. Feel free to throw it back.

Heisenberg
09-26-2008, 12:31 AM
Do you ever sense that much of this crisis is fearmongering for the sake of pushing someone's agenda?

Just a suggestion that I'm throwing out. Feel free to throw it back.

I don't know enough about it to say so either way. I mean, it sounds scary. :lmao:

ScipioCowboy
09-26-2008, 12:36 AM
I don't know enough about it to say so either way. I mean, it sounds scary. :lmao:

Agreed. It sounds unfathomably terrifying. As horrific as encountering Michael Myers and Jason Vorhees in a dark alley.

trickblue
09-26-2008, 12:51 AM
I don't know enough about it to say so either way. I mean, it sounds scary. :lmao:

Oh you ARE damn crazy... deal with it... :laugh2:

Royal Laegotti
09-26-2008, 01:02 AM
Do you ever sense that much of this crisis is fearmongering for the sake of pushing someone's agenda?

Just a suggestion that I'm throwing out. Feel free to throw it back.
Yeah I've felt the same way, I mean the speed at which they want to get this done is alarming to me, they act like the entire finacial world will collapse Monday morning if they don't pass this now!

Heisenberg
09-26-2008, 01:05 AM
Yeah I've felt the same way, I mean the speed at which they want to get this done is alarming to me, they act like the entire finacial world will collapse Monday morning if they don't pass this now!

What I'm curious about is what exactly will happen if they do nothing? I mean, I hear it's bad bad bad, but what is the bad bad bad?

Royal Laegotti
09-26-2008, 01:08 AM
What I'm curious about is what exactly will happen if they do nothing? I mean, I hear it's bad bad bad, but what is the bad bad bad?
I'm half way tempted to want to find out but not sure, if that makes sense.:confused: But I do know I want to be out of debt when it all hits the fan and it will someday I'm sure. I better finish that Dave Ramsey book!

Heisenberg
09-26-2008, 01:14 AM
A quote that I picked up from an article I was just reading on this whole deal:

At another point in the meeting, President Bush chimed in, "If money isn't loosened, this sucker could go down" -- and by sucker he meant economy.

If they're trying to scare me, it's working.

Royal Laegotti
09-26-2008, 01:17 AM
A quote that I picked up from an article I was just reading on this whole deal:



If they're trying to scare me, it's working.
They probably are, don't let it work, what can you possibly do about any of this mess anyway? What can any of us do? Nothing! Just enjoy the theatre!

ScipioCowboy
09-26-2008, 01:18 AM
A quote that I picked up from an article I was just reading on this whole deal:



If they're trying to scare me, it's working.

WMDs.

ologan
09-26-2008, 06:05 AM
WMDs.

Weapons of Market Destruction?

BrAinPaiNt
09-26-2008, 06:18 AM
Weapons of Market Destruction?

:laugh2: Or Weasels of Market Destruction.

neosapien23
09-26-2008, 07:37 AM
I'm curious to everyone's position on this bailout issue? Do board members think the bail out should happen with tight regulations or not at all? To be honest, I do not know what will happen to the economy if these companies go under, but at the same time is it fair for taxpayers to foot the bill on companies that intentionally made bad decisions to make a quick buck?

Heisenberg
09-26-2008, 08:05 AM
I'm curious to everyone's position on this bailout issue? Do board members think the bail out should happen with tight regulations or not at all? To be honest, I do not know what will happen to the economy if these companies go under, but at the same time is it fair for taxpayers to foot the bill on companies that intentionally made bad decisions to make a quick buck?

The more I read about it, the more I think something has to be done and more than likely, it's going to take an infusion of cash just so that banks can start lending again.

I mean, it sounds good and all to say that we're going to get out of this and not have to pay a dime of taxpayer money, but I don't think that's realistic at this point. I think we're way too deep in it now.

Doomsday101
09-26-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm curious to everyone's position on this bailout issue? Do board members think the bail out should happen with tight regulations or not at all? To be honest, I do not know what will happen to the economy if these companies go under, but at the same time is it fair for taxpayers to foot the bill on companies that intentionally made bad decisions to make a quick buck?

Frankly I have mixed emotion on it I pay my taxes, I have not over extended myself or defaulted on my mortgage and it hacks me off that because so many have been foolish and carless that now we have to turn around and take 700 billion from us to foot the bill for those who screwed up. To add to that this 700 Billion dollar bailout may not fix anything in the long run

Eric_Boyer
09-26-2008, 12:13 PM
I'm curious to everyone's position on this bailout issue? Do board members think the bail out should happen with tight regulations or not at all? To be honest, I do not know what will happen to the economy if these companies go under, but at the same time is it fair for taxpayers to foot the bill on companies that intentionally made bad decisions to make a quick buck?

any bailout that doesn't include massive cuts in spending and moderate cuts in taxes is of no interest to me. It is like slapping a bandaid on a cancer patient. The patient might think they are being taken care of, but they aren't being helped in the slightest.

ScipioCowboy
09-26-2008, 12:32 PM
Weapons of Market Destruction?

:laugh2: Or Weasels of Market Destruction.

My point is this: It's not as if the Bush Administration has never been wrong about dire threats.:D

trickblue
09-26-2008, 12:54 PM
any bailout that doesn't include massive cuts in spending and moderate cuts in taxes is of no interest to me. It is like slapping a bandaid on a cancer patient. The patient might think they are being taken care of, but they aren't being helped in the slightest.

Exactly...

I get sick of hearing politicians say we need to raise taxes and they never once mention a spending cut...

heavyg
09-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Exactly...

I get sick of hearing politicians say we need to raise taxes and they never once mention a spending cut...

I'm by no means an expert and am probably talking out the side of my mouth. But I think just cutting all the money we spend on foreign aide would take care of alot of our debt.

punchnjudy
09-27-2008, 12:49 PM
For a long time I've thought that too much of peoples' income and their debt was being spent on housing. We always hear about the adverse effects of gasoline price increases on the economy, but what we spend on gas, even indirectly, is a small fraction of what we spend on housing.

Instead of trying to prop up this inflated market by purchasing weak assets and then hoping that they're value will then eventually increase (which means housing prices will have to rise even further) when many "experts" think they're likely to drop another 20% or so, I'd prefer we let the market correct itself and the fed simply does its job of keeping a banking system in place so we don't have panic in the streets. They can do one without doing the other.