Official Presidential Debate Thread

[WoodysGirl]

For those who are interested...

[masomenos]

Obama spoke to the camera in his opening statement, McCain is speaking to Lehrer. Just something I noticed.

[WoodysGirl]

Not sure I like the moderator disrupting the convo by saying "Turn to him." "Talk directly to him"

Not a lot of meat so far, tho.

[masomenos]

Not sure I like the moderator disrupting the convo by saying "Turn to him." "Talk directly to him"

Yeah, that was odd.

[trickblue]

They are fighting over who gets the phrase Wall Street/Main Street...

Neither one of them have given a decent answer on this first question...

It is interesting that Lehr is trying to get them to go after each other directly...

[bbgun]

What the hell is going on? The theme of this debate is global affairs.

[trickblue]

What the hell is going on? The theme of this debate is global affairs.

Lehr changed it up...

Good answer by McCain on spending...

Let's see what Obama says...

[Danny White]

This whole thing reminds me of why I didn't like McCain in the first place.

So far, Obama is doing much better in the debate, even though his ideas are horrible.

Both are full of.... hot air.

[wrongway]

Ah, finally gettin' a little contentious.

[WoodysGirl]

Lehr changed it up...

Good answer by McCain on spending...

Let's see what Obama says...
Lehr changed it up, but he introduced the debate by saying it was supposed to be about foreign policy.

Odd that it's been pretty much about the economy. I guess that's part of the free wheeling style of the debate.

[WoodysGirl]

Anyone see the audio/video sync get lost during Obama's side. Had flashbacks to the old karate movies.

[masomenos]

"Festooned with Christmas ornaments"

:laugh2:

favorite line of the debate so far

[Signals]

Anyone see the audio/video sync get lost during Obama's side. Had flashbacks to the old karate movies.
Yeah, notice that to.

[trickblue]

Draw on the first question...

I give McCain the edge on question 2 for substance although Obama comes across better...

Lehr needs to stop this "Talk directly to him"... HE'S asking the questions...

[Thanos68]

why are Obamas ideas horrible? Your against the middle class getting a tax break? Although I think It should fall under 250K

[Danny White]

:laugh2: Neither one of these guys has the foggiest idea of how to "fix" the financial crisis.

[bbgun]

It's all class warfare, Average Joe bull****.

[peplaw06]

why are Obamas ideas horrible? Your against the middle class getting a tax break? Although I think It should fall under 250KIf you tax the **** out of the corporations, it's going to fall to the consumer. Simple.

[Danny White]

why are Obamas ideas horrible? Your against the middle class getting a tax break? Although I think It should fall under 250K

I'm against his horrible "soak the rich" class warfare agenda. That's no way to fix the economy.

[trickblue]

Dang... who pissed in Lehr Wheaties... he's cantankerous tonight... but I like him staying after them...

[Danny White]

Dang... who pissed in Lehr Wheaties... he's cantankerous tonight... but I like him staying after them...

He must own a lot of Fannie Mae stock. :D

[WoodysGirl]

why are Obamas ideas horrible? Your against the middle class getting a tax break? Although I think It should fall under 250K
Truthfully, I think 250k is too low. In today's economy, there are alot of people making $200k plus. I don't by myself, but it can be attained with hard work and second household income.

[BadWolf]

Who does Obama keep looking over to? Does he have a coach on the sidelines?

[bbgun]

Is this an hour long?

[masomenos]

Who does Obama keep looking over to? Does he have a coach on the sidelines?

I think he's looking at McCain...

[trickblue]

Who does Obama keep looking over to? Does he have a coach on the sidelines?

He may be using cue cards... McCain may be too... I don't know...

[masomenos]

Is this an hour long?

90 minutes I think

[WoodysGirl]

I think he's looking at McCain...
Obama is looking in the opposite direction of McCain.

My opinion is like any public speaker, he's dialed into a specific person or direction in the audience. to make it easier to deliver his thoughts.

[masomenos]

Obama is looking in the opposite direction of McCain.

My opinion is like any public speaker, he's dialed into a specific person or direction to make it easier to deliver his thoughts.

Ah, I haven't noticed it.

[WoodysGirl]

So far, Obama has called McCain, Tom and Jim. lol

Should add that to the over/under thread.

[trickblue]

McCain was doing well but Obama got him with the Bush tie on spending...

This is a strange debate...

[masomenos]

Oh we got two "maverick" bombs back to back, nice.

[WoodysGirl]

Ah, I haven't noticed it.
When Obama has a turn speaking he's looking to his left.

McCain seems to be looking at Lehr.

[masomenos]

When Obama has a turn speaking he's looking to his left.

McCain seems to be looking at Lehr.

Oh, I see what you're talking about.

[wrongway]

Sure Barry you got the war all figured out. Let's just pull out right now. You tool.

[trickblue]

Bad camera positioning IMO...

[Danny White]

So far, Obama has called McCain, Tom and Jim. lol

Should add that to the over/under thread.

I caught the "Tom" -- I thought the "Jim" was addressed to Lehrer.

Still, it's funny that he's the one that sounds senile. :laugh2:


Seriously, though, I think Obama's winning the debate handily... and this is coming from someone who disagrees with pretty much everything he's saying. He's just coming across much better.

[Danny White]

Yow, that was a good line by McCain.

"Senator Obama doesn't understand the difference between a tactic and a strategy."

[zrinkill]

McCain just zinged him hard .....

[ThreeSportStar80]

:laugh2: Neither one of these guys has the foggiest idea of how to "fix" the financial crisis.

Well duh, no on person will fix the financial crisis, so get that out of your head...

The problem is the special interests in Congress.

[zrinkill]

McCain is swinging haymakers now ..... Obama looks weak

[Danny White]

McCain is swinging haymakers now ..... Obama looks weak

Obama is starting to have problems getting answers out coherently now. He hasn't lost his train of thought yet, but he's clearly struggling more than he did earlier.

Also, his pronunciation of "Pakistan" and "Taliban" is weird. Has a George Bush "nuclear" feel to it.

[zrinkill]

Another hit ...... talking about Obama threatening Pakistan.

[WoodysGirl]

Obama is starting to have problems getting answers out coherently now. He hasn't lost his train of thought yet, but he's clearly struggling more than he did earlier.

Also, his pronunciation of "Pakistan" and "Taliban" is weird. Has a George Bush "nuclear" feel to it.
I agree with this. McCain is shining right now. But then we knew he would on this topic.

[zrinkill]

Is it just me or does Obama already look like he as aged 10 years?

I think the Hillary campaign really wore on him.

[masomenos]

Is it just me or does Obama already look like he as aged 10 years?

I think the Hillary campaign really wore on him.

I was thinking that earlier, the campaign has definitely aged him.

[WoodysGirl]

Is it just me or does Obama already look like he as aged 10 years?

I think the Hillary campaign really wore on him.
He's aged a bit, but it's also bad makeup, IMO. Thought it from the beginning of the telecast. The foundation they used seems to be too dark for his skin tone.

[Danny White]

McCain actually looks decent... not too decrepit.

But he needs to stop filibustering here.

[Danny White]

:lmao2:

I have a bracelet too.

[zrinkill]

This is starting to piss me off.

[peplaw06]

:laugh2:

"I've got a bracelet too"

[WoodysGirl]

I hate the politicizing of the soldiers' deaths. Ugh.

[Danny White]

:laugh2:

"I've got a bracelet too"

That's gotta be one of the most (unintentionally) funny lines I've ever heard in a debate.

Reminds me of the scene in Lethal Weapon where Mel and the chick are comparing scars.

[BigDFan5]

:laugh2:

"I've got a bracelet too":laugh2:

[zrinkill]

I hate the politicizing of the soldiers' deaths. Ugh.

Thats what I was talking about.

I am about to turn this crap off before both guys peeve me off.

[Nomad]

I think it's funny Obama has a flag pin and McCain doesn't. I bet Obama wears the heck out of that pin after everyone got the junk email from a coworker or neighbor outraged that Obama didn't have a flag pin.

[wrongway]

Couldn't agree more W.G.

[Danny White]

I think it's funny Obama has a flag pin and McCain doesn't. I bet Obama wears the heck out of that pin after everyone got the junk email from a coworker or neighbor outraged that Obama didn't have a flag pin.

I hadn't noticed... good observation.

[Thanos68]

:laugh2:

"I've got a bracelet too"

I thought that was appropriate, McCain played the bull**** card about talking to someones mom saying don't let my son die in vain... That can be turned the opposite way. What about the people who want the war over because their son got killed in it? What about the mothers who think their son died for a bull**** war. And believe me, their are plenty of them. Way to go Obama, don't let him get away wit that BS.

[zrinkill]

I thought that was appropriate, McCain played the bull**** card about talking to someones mom saying don't let my son die in vain... That can be turned the opposite way. What about the people who want the war over because their son got killed in it? What about the mothers who think their son died for a bull**** war. And believe me, their are plenty of them. Way to go Obama, don't let him get away wit that BS.

It would have been more effective if he could have remembered the soldiers name.

[WoodysGirl]

I thought that was appropriate, McCain played the bull**** card about talking to someones mom saying don't let my son die in vain... That can be turned the opposite way. What about the people who want the war over because their son got killed in it? What about the mothers who think their son died for a bull**** war. And believe me, their are plenty of them. Way to go Obama, don't let him get away wit that BS.
It would've been appropriate if neither had told brought it up.

[Thanos68]

Ah-ma-din-a-jad you freaking idiot!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO

[wrongway]

Let's talk about your advisers barry. Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson etc. etc.

[Danny White]

Ah-ma-din-a-jad you freaking idiot!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO

He should have just called him "Tom." :rolleyes:

[masomenos]

He should have just called him "Tom." :rolleyes:

:laugh2:

[Thanos68]

He should have just called him "Tom." :rolleyes:

He should get his name right.. He's only been around for how many years? McCain is old and senile..just go watch that video I posted. The proof is all there.

[zrinkill]

McCain still thinks like a Military man.

Obama thinks like a politician.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Wow McCain is truly smart as a brick wall... Amazing! Or better yet "Brilliant"!

[Danny White]

McCain is pummelling him right now.

[Danny White]

He should get his name right.. He's only been around for how many years? McCain is old and senile..just go watch that video I posted. The proof is all there.

They're pronouncing it the same way. Find a real issue.

[zrinkill]

McCain is pummelling him right now.

Yup....

[masomenos]

McCain is pummelling him right now.

That was definitely a bad segment of the debate for Obama.

[WoodysGirl]

He should get his name right.. He's only been around for how many years? McCain is old and senile..just go watch that video I posted. The proof is all there.
So what's the excuse when Obama called McCain "Tom?"
McCain still thinks like a Military man.

Obama thinks like a politician.Like I said earlier, McCain shines in this area.

Obama has settled down some, but it's clear this isn't his strength. If I had to give a preliminary grade, they're about even.

[BigDFan5]

McCain is pummelling him right now.


I was waiting for the white towel to fly in from off camera

[Cajuncowboy]

McCain is proving why Obama is a terrible choice.

As a matter of fact, Obama keeps endorsing McCain.

He must have said 20 times already "John is absolutely right."

He has also said "Let's be perfectly clear"

So...

Let's be perfectly clear, John is absolutely right.

[Danny White]

McCain is proving why Obama is a terrible choice.

As a matter of fact, Obama keeps endorsing McCain.

He must have said 20 times already "John is absolutely right."

He has also said "Let's be perfectly clear"

So...

Let's be perfectly clear, John is absolutely right.

Just said it again.

McCain looks extremely comfortable now.

[iceberg]

Ah-ma-din-a-jad you freaking idiot!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO

and obama can't remember the name of the soldier who's bracelet he wore.

did you laugh as heavily at that?

[Cajuncowboy]

HAHAHAHAHA!

Amadenejad....We are going to wipe Israel off the map.


Obama... No you're not. :tongue:


Yep, that'll work.

[zrinkill]

McCain really knows the deal about the reasons behind the Georgian invasion.

Obama needs to be careful here talking about how we should have "replaced Russian forces" ..... he really does not know what he is talking about.

[Danny White]

and obama can't remember the name of the soldier who's bracelet he wore.

did you laugh as heavily at that?

Or the name of the guy he's running against. :laugh2:

[Danny White]

McCain smiles bigger and bigger everytime Obama says he agrees with him.

[Cajuncowboy]

Or the name of the guy he's running against. :laugh2:

Obama is as lost as a ball in tall grass.

This election is over right now.

[Cajuncowboy]

McCain smiles bigger and bigger everytime Obama says he agrees with him.

I'll bet Rush has a montage of all the times Obama said that without repeating one. It's last for five minutes.

[masomenos]

Obama is as lost as a ball in tall grass.

This election is over right now.

No, it's not.

[Danny White]

Obama is as lost as a ball in tall grass.

This election is over right now.

I don't know about that. Way too early my friend.

McCain struggled early on.

Lotta campaign left to go.

[Cajuncowboy]

No, it's not.

Oh, yes it is.

Let's be perfectly clear about this.

john is right. :D

[Dallas]

No, it's not.


Yes, it is. Does that make me right? No, it doesn't. :rolleyes:

Obama isn't showing to well tonight.


Am I right on that?

[zrinkill]

Great line John.

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't know about that. Way too early my friend.

McCain struggled early on.

Lotta campaign left to go.

It's not where you start but where you finish.

[Danny White]

Great line John.

Which one?

[masomenos]

Yes, it is. Does that make me right? No, it doesn't. :rolleyes:

Obama isn't showing to well tonight.


Am I right on that?

Well the election isn't over...to say it is is stupid.

Obama is losing the debate, yes, but it's not as bad as the board is making it out to be.

[Cajuncowboy]

I love it. Obama says he would sit down with Iran and Venezuela but then calls them rouge states.

[zrinkill]

I dont think its over because of this debate.

Hillary smoked Obama in every debate they had.

But it looks good.

[Cajuncowboy]

Well the election isn't over...to say it is is stupid.

Obama is losing the debate, yes, but it's not as bad as the board is making it out to be.

No it's not stupid to say.

The bottom line is that obama is has shown he has no clue what he is doing. anyone with any concern for this Country would never elect this neophyte.

[wrongway]

No, you don't think this is the greatest country on earth barry. That is why you hang with Bill Ayers.

We don't give hoot about what the rest of the world thinks about us. I certainly don't.

[Danny White]

Well the election isn't over...to say it is is stupid.

Obama is losing the debate, yes, but it's not as bad as the board is making it out to be.

This debate isn't a knockout blow for anyone.

Obama still has much work to do to make people believe he truly is ready to be President, but he hasn't done anything to kill his chances yet.

Everyone expects McCain to know more about Foreign Policy, and he showed he does.

But Obama needs to do much better in future debates or he will not win this election.

But it's not over yet... not by a longshot.

[WoodysGirl]

Well the election isn't over...to say it is is stupid.

Obama is losing the debate, yes, but it's not as bad as the board is making it out to be.There's only a couple suggesting that the election is over, not the majority of posters in the board.

McCain struggled early on, but he turned it around. Obama came out strong, but is now struggling. Seems to be a tie to slightly tilting towards McCain.

[masomenos]

No it's not stupid to say.

The bottom line is that obama is has shown he has no clue what he is doing. anyone with any concern for this Country would never elect this neophyte.

That's not true either.

Like I said, he's losing this debate, but he's not exactly Palin up there either.

[Cajuncowboy]

My point is that no one would vote for Obama if they truly cared about the direction and safety of this country.

That is why I say it's over. I am basing that on people actually understanding what Obama is saying or not saying.

[masomenos]

This debate isn't a knockout blow for anyone.

Obama still has much work to do to make people believe he truly is ready to be President, but he hasn't done anything to kill his chances yet.

Everyone expects McCain to know more about Foreign Policy, and he showed he does.

But Obama needs to do much better in future debates or he will not win this election.

But it's not over yet... not by a longshot.

I'd say that's spot on.

[Danny White]

Great line by McCain on veterans. That was stone cold... and Obama set him up for that.

That's a major gaffe by his prep team... they have to avoid those setups in the future.

[Cajuncowboy]

That's not true either.

Like I said, he's losing this debate, but he's not exactly Palin up there either.

You think Palin is a bad debater?

This should be good.

[ThreeSportStar80]

McCain dared to compare Sen. Obama to the Bushwacks administration? Wow somebody please put this old fool out of his misery, PLEASE!

[zrinkill]

I cannot believe that Obama brought up Veterans ..... that's just falling right into the McCain trap.

[masomenos]

My point is that no one would vote for Obama if they truly cared about the direction and safety of this country.

That is why I say it's over. I am basing that on people actually understanding what Obama is saying or not saying.

And that's not true either. Almost everyone who votes this Nov, including those who vote for Obama, will truly care about the direction and safety of this country.

[Danny White]

First "POW" reference by McCain.

Obama shouldn't have gone down the "Kenya" line... I think that wasn't wise.

Obama started off OK with not going to the "ummms" but in the end, he started almost every comment with "uh uh uh uh uh."

[masomenos]

You think Palin is a bad debater?

This should be good.

No, I was referring to Palins "say nothing" approach to her interviews.

[Danny White]

I cannot believe that Obama brought up Veterans ..... that's just falling right into the McCain trap.

Agreed... huge gaffe.

[Cajuncowboy]

And that's not true either. Almost everyone who votes this Nov, including those who vote for Obama, will truly care about the direction and safety of this country.

If they cared about their countries safety, they surely won't vote for obama.

He has no freakin' clue what he's talking about. He's regurgitating his prep notes. McCain is speaking from experience and knowledge.

obama is throwing drats and searching for an idea.

And yeas, That IS true.

[WoodysGirl]

First "POW" reference by McCain.

Obama shouldn't have gone down the "Kenya" line... I think that wasn't wise.

Obama started off OK with not going to the "ummms" but in the end, he started almost every comment with "uh uh uh uh uh."He lost his composure toward the end.

And I think zrin said it best. On foreign policy, McCain still thinks like a military man and Obama thinks like a politician.

[masomenos]

Agreed... huge gaffe.

Yeah, poor idea to play to your opponents hand.

[BigDFan5]

damn I missed the veterans liner what was said

[Danny White]

damn I missed the veterans liner what was said

Obama talked about meeting veterans and talking to them about benefits.

McCain responded with a very heartfelt line about knowing veterans and being on their side and they know it. I'm not doing it justice, but it wasn't a good exchange for Obama.

[masomenos]

If they cared about their countries safety, they surely won't vote for obama.

He has no freakin' clue what he's talking about. He's regurgitating his prep notes. McCain is speaking from experience and knowledge.

obama is throwing drats and searching for an idea.

And yeas, That IS true.

The president doesn't make decisions alone though and if he does then he shouldn't be in office. He filters information, adds it to his own knowledge and then makes a decision. McCain does have more experience and more knowledge in this and he did win the debate because of that, his comments on the Georgian conflict were terrific and dead right.

Just because Obama is less experienced on foreign policy doesn't mean that he has the inability to make wise decisions.

[BigDFan5]

Obama talked about meeting veterans and talking to them about benefits.

McCain responded with a very heartfelt line about knowing veterans and being on their side and they know it. I'm not doing it justice, but it wasn't a good exchange for Obama.


Thanks, what was Obama thinking? sheesh

[Danny White]

Senator McCain is absolutely right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc&eurl=http://www.redstate.com/


:laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

The president doesn't make decisions alone though and if he does then he shouldn't be in office. He filters information, adds it to his own knowledge and then makes a decision. McCain does have more experience and more knowledge in this and he did win the debate because of that, his comments on the Georgian conflict were terrific and dead right.

Just because Obama is less experienced on foreign policy doesn't mean that he has the inability to make wise decisions.

It's not just the inexperience. It the bad judgment as well. Things like openly saying he would launch strikes into Pakistan. Saying he would sit down with terror sponsors. It's just bad judgment and he has no business in the White House.

[masomenos]

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-presidential-debate

74% of people voting on MSNBC say Obama won the debate.

:laugh2:

That's just silly.

[Cajuncowboy]

Senator McCain is absolutely right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc&eurl=http://www.redstate.com/


:laugh2:

Well that didn't take long.

[Danny White]

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-presidential-debate

74% of people voting on MSNBC say Obama won the debate.

:laugh2:

That's just silly.

An internet poll? I'm shocked Ron Paul didn't win. :D

[Cajuncowboy]

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-presidential-debate

74% of people voting on MSNBC say Obama won the debate.

:laugh2:

That's just silly.

And my point I made earlier is proven. They are more concerned with their side winning and not the country. Anyone who believe he won this thing is crazy as a loon.

[Phrozen Phil]

If they cared about their countries safety, they surely won't vote for obama.

He has no freakin' clue what he's talking about. He's regurgitating his prep notes. McCain is speaking from experience and knowledge.

obama is throwing drats and searching for an idea.

And yeas, That IS true.

I suggest, very gently, that you calm down a bit and rethink your reponse. You're questioning the patriotism of people simply because they don't vote the same way you do.

For the record, it was a civil, polite debate with little fireworks. Both candidates laid out their views fairly well. I'm not sure that any major shifts in people's views will result from this. Only time will tell.

[Cajuncowboy]

I suggest, very gently, that you calm down a bit and rethink your reponse. You're questioning the patriotism of people simply because they don't vote the same way you do.

For the record, it was a civil, polite debate with little fireworks. Both candidates laid out their views fairly well. I'm not sure that any major shifts in people's views will result from this. Only time will tell.

Suggest what you want, but yes, I question the patriotism of anyone who would elect someone like Obama who is willing to put this country in harms way. Yes, I am.

[bbgun]

I had no idea McCain was a member of the Bush Administration. Thanks for the 411, Barak. And btw, Lehr's question was about Russia, not your energy policies. Please try to stay on-topic.

[masomenos]

It's not just the inexperience. It the bad judgment as well. Things like openly saying he would launch strikes into Pakistan. Saying he would sit down with terror sponsors. It's just bad judgment and he has no business in the White House.

I'm sorry, McCain is going to follow bin-Laden to the gates of hell, but only if Pakistan says it's ok? It's the same thing as how McCain characterized Obama's hypothetical talk with Ahmadenejad.

Both candidates have shown bad judgment in the past, it's not like Obama has a monopoly on wrong decisions.

[Cajuncowboy]

I'm sorry, McCain is going to follow bin-Laden to the gates of hell, but only if Pakistan says it's ok? It's the same thing as how McCain characterized Obama's hypothetical talk with Ahmadenejad.

Both candidates have shown bad judgment in the past, it's not like Obama has a monopoly on wrong decisions.

No, he just has most of them.

[masomenos]

No, he just has most of them.

And that's just an opinion thing.

The thing is, with McCain's voting record so closely inline with the policies of Bush the general public opinion is that McCain has been wrong on quite a few things.

[Cajuncowboy]

And that's just an opinion thing.

The thing is, with McCain's voting record so closely inline with the policies of Bush the general public opinion is that McCain has been wrong on quite a few things.

I think McCain blew that p tonight.

[zrinkill]

I think McCain barely won the debate ..... which since Obama is leading in the polls makes it basically a tie.

McCain needed a memorable quote like Reagan to really knock this out of the park ..... and he is just not a very good speaker.

On making points, McCain easily won this debate.

On Style I still think Obama stayed way to close to call it an easy victory with the MTV crowd.

This election just got more tight.

[masomenos]

I think McCain blew that p tonight.

Yes but McCain could have come out and recited the Gettysburg Address and you would have thought he won the debate. :) ;)

[Cajuncowboy]

Yes but McCain could have come out and recited the Gettysburg Address and you would have thought he won the debate. :) ;)

Absolutely not. I thought McCain was on point and took it to Obama. McCain struggled early on the economy but that was because of the volatility of the current situation.

Other than that, this was a McCain win.

[Phrozen Phil]

What arethe TV polls saying? I've seen CBS which has Obama doing well overall and McCain doing well on the Iraq question. I suspect that lots more analysis will be done by both sides in the next 24 hours.

[Cajuncowboy]

What arethe TV polls saying? I've seen CBS which has Obama doing well overall and McCain doing well on the Iraq question. I suspect that lots more analysis will be done by both sides in the next 24 hours.

they will all say it was a draw, therefore a win for Obama. Just because they don't want to say Obama lost.

[Danny White]

What arethe TV polls saying? I've seen CBS which has Obama doing well overall and McCain doing well on the Iraq question. I suspect that lots more analysis will be done by both sides in the next 24 hours.

Luntz's focus group seemed to love Obama.

[trickblue]

Yes but McCain could have come out and recited the Gettysburg Address and you would have thought he won the debate. :) ;)

McCain was in attendance at the Gettysburg Address... ;)

I knew Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Obama... You sir, are no Lincoln...

[masomenos]

This is interesting. Fox News is showing a focus group they did the during the debate and the response from them was more favorable for Obama. They took only undecided voters and made sure half had been Bush voters and half had been Kerry voters. It shocks me that people could think Obama won, lol.

[masomenos]

McCain was in attendance at the Gettysburg Address... ;)
I knew Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Obama... You sir, are no Lincoln...


LOL

:laugh2:

[Cajuncowboy]

Luntz's focus group seemed to love Obama.

When they talk to them they sound like a bunch of air heads.

They didn't watch the same debate.

[masomenos]

Luntz's focus group seemed to love Obama.

That was pretty surprising huh?

[Cajuncowboy]

That was pretty surprising huh?

Yeah, considering they said the one thing they wanted from Obama is more specifics.

But hey, they loved him! :laugh2:

[trickblue]

What arethe TV polls saying? I've seen CBS which has Obama doing well overall and McCain doing well on the Iraq question. I suspect that lots more analysis will be done by both sides in the next 24 hours.

McCain had better facts, but Obama was smoother...

McCain won on substance, Obama won on style...

Style usually wins over substance here in America...

[masomenos]

Yeah, considering they said the one thing they wanted from Obama is more specifics.

But hey, they loved him! :laugh2:

While I disagree with them on who won, it does kinda prove that this election isn't "over" doesn't it?

[Cajuncowboy]

McCain had better facts, but Obama was smoother...

McCain won on substance, Obama won on style...

Style usually wins over substance here in America...

And that is where I question ones patriotism when voting on style and not substance.

[Cajuncowboy]

While I disagree with them on who won, it does kinda prove that this election isn't "over" doesn't it?

Well, I already stated my position on it.

[Danny White]

That was pretty surprising huh?

Yeah Luntz is fair too... (actually he's a Republican) so I don't question the objectiveness of his group.

I disagree with my good friend Cajun and I think Obama will win unless he commits a major gaffe.

[masomenos]

Yeah Luntz is fair too... (actually he's a Republican) so I don't question the objectiveness of his group.

I disagree with my good friend Cajun and I think Obama will win unless he commits a major gaffe.

Next week we get a foreign policy/national policy debate between Biden and Palin. Do you think we'll just see a reversal of roles, with Biden playing McCain and Palin standing in for Obama? There's clearly an experience and knowledge gap between them like there was in this debate. But who will the public favor?

[trickblue]

Yeah Luntz is fair too... (actually he's a Republican) so I don't question the objectiveness of his group.

I disagree with my good friend Cajun and I think Obama will win unless he commits a major gaffe.

Don't underestimate the Clinton Machine... they will do all they can to defeat him... ;)

This is the worst choice among candidates we have ever had in this country...

[masomenos]

McCain had better facts, but Obama was smoother...

McCain won on substance, Obama won on style...

Style usually wins over substance here in America...

Do you think we'll see the same thing next week with Biden and Palin. Biden being the substance and Palin being the style?

[Cajuncowboy]

Do you think we'll see the same thing next week with Biden and Palin. Biden being the substance and Palin being the style?

I think you'll be surprised with Palin's substance. But ultimately the VP debate does nothing to influence the majority of voters.

[masomenos]

I think you'll be surprised with Palin's substance. But ultimately the VP debate does nothing to influence the majority of voters.

I honestly don't know what that could be based on, her interviews have gone so poorly.

[ninja]

Anyone else notice Obama's pronounciation of "Pakistan" was kinda weird? Obama's pronounciation of the word "Pakistan" was very foreign. It sounded almost Pakistanian or Middle Eastern. It sounded very strange to me.

[CowboyWay]

Its no worse than how Bush pronounces just about anything.

[trickblue]

Do you think we'll see the same thing next week with Biden and Palin. Biden being the substance and Palin being the style?

Biden is a gaffe machine... and has been for his entire career...

Palin is an unknown so we don't know yet...

America still doesn't like a man picking on a woman so Biden has to tread carefully. He is known as being very pompous so I don't know if he can help himself...

I think Palin is a sharp woman. I think Biden is a seasoned senator. I think Biden won't be able to help himself and could very well produce a major gaffe...

Personally I don't care what my president or vice president knows... they are stewards. The meat is in who they choose for their cabinet...

[Danny White]

Anyone else notice Obama's pronounciation of "Pakistan" was kinda weird? Obama's pronounciation of the word "Pakistan" was very foreign. It sounded almost Pakistanian or Middle Eastern. It sounded very strange to me.

I noted that earlier... it reminded me of the way Bush pronounces "nuclear."

The funniest, though, was Obama calling McCain "Tom."

[masomenos]

Anyone else notice Obama's pronounciation of "Pakistan" was kinda weird? Obama's pronounciation of the word "Pakistan" was very foreign. It sounded almost Pakistanian or Middle Eastern. It sounded very strange to me.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pakistan

There are two proper pronunciations.

[adamc91115]

Anyone else notice Obama's pronounciation of "Pakistan" was kinda weird? Obama's pronounciation of the word "Pakistan" was very foreign. It sounded almost Pakistanian or Middle Eastern. It sounded very strange to me.

I thought the same thing...

Nothing concerning me, just something thats kind of weird coming from someone that doesn't have an accent with any other word.

[masomenos]

Is anyone watching Fox News?

Did Dick Morris just say that the republicans chose the wrong candidate? I just caught the tail end of what he said so I'm not sure...

[ninja]

Its no worse than how Bush pronounces just about anything.

I guess Bush will live for eternity in the minds of some. Why do some resort to comparing/connecting everything to Bush?

[Cajuncowboy]

Is anyone watching Fox News?

Did Dick Morris just say that the republicans chose the wrong candidate? I just caught the tail end of what he said so I'm not sure...

He thought they should have chosen Rudy. He based it on one of Rudy's remarks about the debate.

[WoodysGirl]

Biden is a gaffe machine... and has been for his entire career...

Palin is an unknown so we don't know yet...

America still doesn't like a man picking on a woman so Biden has to tread carefully. He is known as being very pompous so I don't know if he can help himself...

I think Palin is a sharp woman. I think Biden is a seasoned senator. I think Biden won't be able to help himself and could very well produce a major gaffe...

Personally I don't care what my president or vice president knows... they are stewards. The meat is in who they choose for their cabinet...I agree. I'd also add that that is in addition to any congressional seat changes.

[masomenos]

Biden is a gaffe machine... and has been for his entire career...

Palin is an unknown so we don't know yet...

America still doesn't like a man picking on a woman so Biden has to tread carefully. He is known as being very pompous so I don't know if he can help himself...

I think Palin is a sharp woman. I think Biden is a seasoned senator. I think Biden won't be able to help himself and could very well produce a major gaffe...

Personally I don't care what my president or vice president knows... they are stewards. The meat is in who they choose for their cabinet...

In his interview with Fox News just a little while ago, Biden did say that he wasn't going to be condescending during the debate or lecture Palin like McCain did...now the odds of him being able to restrain himself are, of course, low as hell lol.

[CowboyWay]

I think McCain barely won the debate ..... which since Obama is leading in the polls makes it basically a tie.

McCain needed a memorable quote like Reagan to really knock this out of the park ..... and he is just not a very good speaker.

On making points, McCain easily won this debate.

On Style I still think Obama stayed way to close to call it an easy victory with the MTV crowd.

This election just got more tight.

While I think its a moot point on who we think won, I'm interested in how you say "On making points, McCain easily won this debate". This wasn't my perception. McCains didn't seem to say anything. Just talked about his experience in the Senate.

The part I really didn't like is his "Freeze on all spending". Thats the sort of thing that sounds sexy in a debate, but in reality is a pipe dream. Is there money that could tightened down across the country? Sure there is. But nowhere near what we need to solve the banking crises, and deal with this war. Like one of the analysts said on the tv, "Where is the money going to come from to pay for this?" McCain wants to keep the war machine churning at 10 billion per month, and he wants to build 45 new Nuke plants, A nuke plant runs about 10 billion each. All this, and still bailing out the real estate mess?

Just more political jargon.

[masomenos]

He thought they should have chosen Rudy. He based it on one of Rudy's remarks about the debate.

Weird. Do you remember what Rudy's comment was by chance?

[CowboyWay]

I guess Bush will live for eternity in the minds of some. Why do some resort to comparing/connecting everything to Bush?

My point was simply to say that because someone says a word strangely (pakistan), we currently have a president who can barely speak coherently.

[bbgun]

From AP, Kissinger responds:

"Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

[Cajuncowboy]

Weird. Do you remember what Rudy's comment was by chance?

Unfortunately no I don't. But I think it had something to do with the reason McCain didn't rip Barack on the economy. Morris said McCain should have said "Barack, you want the American Taxpayer to bail out the financial institutions and I want them to pay the debt back and buy insurance on the loans." Something to that effect. But I was in and out of the room and telling you how the election is over. :D

[trickblue]

In his interview with Fox News just a little while ago, Biden did say that he wasn't going to be condescending during the debate or lecture Palin like McCain did...now the odds of him being able to restrain himself are, of course, low as hell lol.

I've been watching Mr. Biden for a long time...

I would be surprised if he can help himself... this will be a real debate to watch...

I don't think he is a bad guy in most repects, but he is very flawed... and he was a terrible choice for Obama...

He should have chosen Evan Bayh...

[ninja]

My point was simply to say that because someone says a word strangely (pakistan), we currently have a president who can barely speak coherently.

When will your Bush infatuation end? Another comment about Bush. Let it go.

[Danny White]

Is anyone watching Fox News?

Did Dick Morris just say that the republicans chose the wrong candidate? I just caught the tail end of what he said so I'm not sure...

That's because Dick Morris is a mercenary who doesn't have any convictions. Rudy's a good candidate, but would have been terrible for the base.

He actually would have been a good VP candidate if he wasn't so bad on life.

[CowboyWay]

From AP, Kissinger responds:

"Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

Well in fairness, of course thats what Kissenger is going to say now. I'd be more interested in some audio of him saying what Obama "said" he said at an earlier date. If its out there.

Regardless, I like some of McCains ideas, but this one does kind of have me perplexed. Don't we teach our kids to talk thier problems out with thier peers? We don't teach them to only talk to kids who are on thier side on things right?

I'm of the school that you keep your freinds close, and your enemies closer. If my President wants to have sit down with someone over something, I think they damn well should do it. Not with just people who see things our way.

Isn't this the reason the world developed the UN? So every nation could be heard? To keep every channel of communication open so other nations know what the problems are, and know what issues are developing in the world?

I don't want a president who pouts and refuses to talk with someone because they have different views than him.

If someone has a good reason why I should change my view on this, I'll gladly read it, because McCains reason just didn't do it for me. He came across a little childish on this topic I thought.

[CowboyWay]

When will your Bush infatuation end? Another comment about Bush. Let it go.


You have me confused with someone else. Go look at my history. Maybe I've typed his name twice in 5 years?

[Danny White]

Weird. Do you remember what Rudy's comment was by chance?
I don't, but he says a lot of great things when he gets rolling. It's just a shame he's bad on some key issues.

[Nomad]

Anyone else notice Obama's pronounciation of "Pakistan" was kinda weird? Obama's pronounciation of the word "Pakistan" was very foreign. It sounded almost Pakistanian or Middle Eastern. It sounded very strange to me.

I had this Vice Principal way back in high school that would make it a point to pronounce everyone's name in the proper accent, like people with Spanish or Asian names and even the Italian ones. It was kinda funny when he would do the announcements or graduation and be rolling his Rs etc., he really went overboard.

I feel like that's what Obama is doing with Pakistan or Afghanistan, trying to use the more "proper" pronunciation with the accent or whatever, but it's weird because he doesn't do it with other countries.

[WoodysGirl]

I had this Vice Principal way back in high school that would make it a point to pronounce everyone's name in the proper accent, like people with Spanish or Asian names. It was kinda when he would do the announcements or graduation and be rolling his Rs etc., he really went overboard.

I feel like that's what Obama is doing with Pakistan or Afghanistan, trying to use the more "proper" pronunciation with the accent or whatever, but it's weird because he doesn't do it with other countries.I do the same thing at work and school. My team lead at my job is Russian and I've got a couple middle eastern co-workers. And almost all of my old classmates at school were from the Middle east or Asia. Just out of respect, I tried to pronounce their names properly.

As for why it was so noticeable with Obama, I don't know, but it didn't bother me.

[WoodysGirl]

From the Fact check thread:

THE FACTS: Obama was right that Kissinger called for meetings without preconditions. McCain was right that Kissinger did not call for such meetings to be between the two presidents.

In a foreign policy forum Saturday, Kissinger said: "I am in favor of negotiating with Iran." He went on to say "I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level" and the U.S. should go into the talks with "a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/...bate_factcheck

[adamc91115]

Well in fairness, of course thats what Kissenger is going to say now. I'd be more interested in some audio of him saying what Obama "said" he said at an earlier date. If its out there.

Regardless, I like some of McCains ideas, but this one does kind of have me perplexed. Don't we teach our kids to talk thier problems out with thier peers? We don't teach them to only talk to kids who are on thier side on things right?

I'm of the school that you keep your freinds close, and your enemies closer. If my President wants to have sit down with someone over something, I think they damn well should do it. Not with just people who see things our way.

Isn't this the reason the world developed the UN? So every nation could be heard? To keep every channel of communication open so other nations know what the problems are, and know what issues are developing in the world?

I don't want a president who pouts and refuses to talk with someone because they have different views than him.

If someone has a good reason why I should change my view on this, I'll gladly read it, because McCains reason just didn't do it for me. He came across a little childish on this topic I thought.

You don't give a dictator that propaganda to use to make himself seem more powerful to his people.

You're just some loony dictator and now you're meeting with the most important leader in the world, you don't think that gives you a ton of credibility?

[CowboyWay]

From the Fact check thread:

Kinda makes you just shake your head don't it?

All across this country right now there are people who are looking up what Kissenger said, who was right, Obama or McCain, blah blah blah. As if Kissenger is all of a sudden the key to this country. (and I don't just mean you woodysgirl, millions of us have done the same thing tonight)

All the while, both candidates get off scott free about the real important topics about our economy, and where we are going as a nation.

I guess in the end, both politicians prefer it this way.:(

[Danny White]

From the Fact check thread:

If Obama doesn't understand the distinction between nations having discussions and the President meeting with a terrorist dictator, then he's farther behind the curve than I thought.

Obama said that he'd meet with these leaders... he's completely wrong on this one.

[CowboyWay]

You don't give a dictator that propaganda to use to make himself seem more powerful to his people.

You're just some loony dictator and now you're meeting with the most important leader in the world, you don't think that gives you a ton of credibility?

Honestly, I don't. If a dictator is powerful enough of a person that my president wants to take a meeting with him, I'm guessing his "people" already see him having quite a bit of credibility already, don't you?


We're also assuming that just because some nutjob in another country wants a sit-down with the leader of the free world, that he's automatically going to get it. Nonsense.

My contention is that if MY president wants to take a meeting with someone, over MY safety, or MY country's best interest, I want him to.

[Nomad]

I do the same thing at work and school. My team lead at my job is Russian and I've got a couple middle eastern co-workers. And almost all of my old classmates at school were from the Middle east or Asia. Just out of respect, I tried to pronounce their names properly.

As for why it was so noticeable with Obama, I don't know, but it didn't bother me.

Right, that's all I was saying he's not mispronouncing it he's just trying to do it more properly.

[Cajuncowboy]

Honestly, I don't. If a dictator is powerful enough of a person that my president wants to take a meeting with him, I'm guessing his "people" already see him having quite a bit of credibility already, don't you?


We're also assuming that just because some nutjob in another country wants a sit-down with the leader of the free world, that he's automatically going to get it. Nonsense.

My contention is that if MY president wants to take a meeting with someone, over MY safety, or MY country's best interest, I want him to.

It's not "HIS" people that are the issue. It's the credibility you give him among other nations. If they see the American President giving him credibility then they must assume he is legit.

This is why Obama is a huge mistake for this country. He knows nothing about foreign policy. When you go public about making attacks into another country who is supposed to be our ally you show your neophyte ways and are a danger.

[CowboyWay]

If Obama doesn't understand the distinction between nations having discussions and the President meeting with a terrorist dictator, then he's farther behind the curve than I thought.

Obama said that he'd meet with these leaders... he's completely wrong on this one.

So instead of sitting down with someone he feels is important enough to chat with, you believe that we should go the McCain route and just sanction them to death until they see things our way?

I'm curious if you can find me one, just one situation where we placed sanctions on a country and they in turn did what we wanted them too?

I'm still waiting to go to Cuba on vacation, and thats been what? Almost 50 years?

You know who suffers when we sanction other country's? The poor people. They are the ones who don't get the food, the medicine, the basic needs for survival. The dictator? He's still living high on the hog.

I'll wait here while you find a country we put sanctions on and it worked. I want to read up about it.

[Cajuncowboy]

Right, that's all I was saying he's not mispronouncing it he's just trying to do it more properly.

Right. Like they do in the middle east.

[Cajuncowboy]

So instead of sitting down with someone he feels is important enough to chat with, you believe that we should go the McCain route and just sanction them to death until they see things our way?

I'm curious if you can find me one, just one situation where we placed sanctions on a country and they in turn did what we wanted them too?

I'm still waiting to go to Cuba on vacation, and thats been what? Almost 50 years?

You know who suffers when we sanction other country's? The poor people. They are the ones who don't get the food, the medicine, the basic needs for survival. The dictator? He's still living high on the hog.

I'll wait here while you find a country we put sanctions on and it worked. I want to read up about it.

If I show you one, will you then agree that McCain's way works or will you just fluff it off and say, oh that's different???

[Heisenberg]

I'm not real sure what people expected. This "freeform" debate thing was a sham. They had a little longer to speak. That was the extent of it.

They flung talking points at each other without really SAYING anything. That's what politicians do in debates.

[CowboyWay]

It's not "HIS" people that are the issue. It's the credibility you give him among other nations. If they see the American President giving him credibility then they must assume he is legit.
.

Oh, I see. So your contention is that the people of Iraq never saw Saddam Hussein as "legit"?

And the people of Iran don't see Ali Khamenei as legit?

Did the Cubans see Fidel castro as legit?


What about the North Koreans? They don't see Kim Jong Il legit either?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "Yes they did" to all of the above even though to my knowledge, not one of them has ever taken a meeting with the President of the United States. (maybe fidel did at some point, but I can't recall)

[Cajuncowboy]

Oh, I see. So your contention is that the people of Iraq never saw Saddam Hussein as "legit"?

And the people of Iran don't see Ali Khamenei as legit?

Did the Cubans see Fidel castro as legit?


What about the North Koreans? They don't see Kim Jong Il legit either?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "Yes they did" to all of the above even though to my knowledge, not one of them has ever taken a meeting with the President of the United States. (maybe fidel did at some point, but I can't recall)

Is comprehension a problem for you??? I said other countries. Not "HIS" people. You need to read a bit more carefully.

[CowboyWay]

If I show you one, will you then agree that McCain's way works or will you just fluff it off and say, oh that's different???

Depends. I normally like to see the facts before I decide. Maybe thats the difference between you and I politically.

But if you're going to hold me to something as ridiculous as that, can I hold you to this..............

If you show me one that worked, when I show you 50 others that didn't, will you agree that it doesn't work more often than not?

[Cajuncowboy]

Depends. I normally like to see the facts before I decide. Maybe thats the difference between you and I politically.

But if you're going to hold me to something as ridiculous as that, can I hold you to this..............

If you show me one that worked, when I show you 50 others that didn't, will you agree that it doesn't work more often than not?

well heck kiddo.. You asked to see one. ONE. Your words. You are starting to equivocate like Obama. Here is one for you anyway...

In 1991, two Libyan intelligence agents were indicted by federal prosecutors in the U.S. and Scotland for their involvement in the December 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103. Six other Libyans were put on trial in absentia for the 1989 bombing of UTA Flight 772. The UN Security Council demanded that Libya surrender the suspects, cooperate with the Pan Am 103 and UTA 772 investigations, pay compensation to the victims' families, and cease all support for terrorism. Libya's refusal to comply led to the approval of UNSC Resolution 748 on March 31, 1992, imposing sanctions on the state designed to bring about Libyan compliance. Continued Libyan defiance led to further sanctions by the UN against Libya in November 1993.[23]

In 1999, less than a decade after the sanctions were put in place, Libya began to make dramatic policy changes in regard to the Western world, including turning over the Lockerbie suspects for trial.

You can stick your head back in the sand now.

Oh eah, they also gave up their nukes as well.

[CowboyWay]

Is comprehension a problem for you??? I said other countries. Not "HIS" people. You need to read a bit more carefully.

Oh my bad. So what your saying is this.............

You are worried that if we give a meeting to Kim Ji Il, someone in the middle east might all of a sudden give him legitimacy?

Or if we give a meeting to the leader of Iran, this will change the entire way the north Koreans think about the leadership of Iran?

Makes no sense whatsoever, but if thats your contention, fine.

Let me ask you this then.........

If the leader of Afghanistan held a meeting with the leader of Iran (EVEN IF WE DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT LEADER OF IRAN), that would automatically make American see the Iran govt as legitimate?

Because under your contention, that would be the case. It totally doesn't make one iota of sense, I agree. Hopefully that point will make you see how ridiculous your contention truly is.

[Cajuncowboy]

Oh my bad. So what your saying is this.............

You are worried that if we give a meeting to Kim Ji Il, someone in the middle east might all of a sudden give him legitimacy?

Or if we give a meeting to the leader of Iran, this will change the entire way the north Koreans think about the leadership of Iran?

Makes no sense whatsoever, but if thats your contention, fine.

Let me ask you this then.........

If the leader of Afghanistan held a meeting with the leader of Iran (EVEN IF WE DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT LEADER OF IRAN), that would automatically make American see the Iran govt as legitimate?

Because under your contention, that would be the case. It totally doesn't make one iota of sense, I agree. Hopefully that point will make you see how ridiculous your contention truly is.

Wow. You have very little understanding of how the middle east works. Add to that the many young fledgling countries, not the least of them in the former Soviet Union that are trying to find their way, and you pose this garbage? You understand about like Obama does. And that is why Obama should not ever even sniff the white house.

[ConcordCowboy]

Good debate.

No knock out blows from either.

Both got in some good shots.

For this being supposedly Obama's weakness (Foreign policy/National Security) I thought he did well and was Pleased.

On to the next one.

[CowboyWay]

In 1999, less than a decade after the sanctions were put in place, Libya began to make dramatic policy changes in regard to the Western world, including turning over the Lockerbie suspects for trial.

You can stick your head back in the sand now.

Oh eah, they also gave up their nukes as well.

Wow, in just under a decade too. Good job.

Funny thing is, nothing in this article said that the sanctions were WHY there were policy changes. Nothing, Nada, zip.

Found this tidbit you might be interested in........


Qadhafi has managed to trick his way out of an international trap caused by alleged Libyan roles behind the Lockerbie and UTA bombings. He has paid generous compensations to prevent his being called personally responsible for these bombings.

However, Qadhafi's international tricks have earned him the fact that he is no longer taken seriously by any quarters of consequence. One expert described the Libyan leader after the UN suspended its sanctions against Tripoli in April 1999 as follows: He is more likely to be called in to talk shows to offer his solutions to world problems than to despatch agents intent on violently resolving them.
http://www.allbusiness.com/mining/oil-gas-extraction-crude-petroleum-natural/794934-1.html

But you want to "assume" that is was the sanctions that did it? Did You know you can't find the word "naive" in the dictionary

[Heisenberg]

Good debate.

No knock out blows from either.

Both got in some good shots.

For this being supposedly Obama's weakness (Foreign policy/National Security) I thought he did well and was Pleased.

On to the next one.

Basically sums up my feelings. Not that agreeing with you should surprise me. We seem to agree a lot.

[Cajuncowboy]

Wow, in just under a decade too. Good job.

Funny thing is, nothing in this article said that the sanctions were WHY there were policy changes. Nothing, Nada, zip.

Found this tidbit you might be interested in........


Qadhafi has managed to trick his way out of an international trap caused by alleged Libyan roles behind the Lockerbie and UTA bombings. He has paid generous compensations to prevent his being called personally responsible for these bombings.

However, Qadhafi's international tricks have earned him the fact that he is no longer taken seriously by any quarters of consequence. One expert described the Libyan leader after the UN suspended its sanctions against Tripoli in April 1999 as follows: He is more likely to be called in to talk shows to offer his solutions to world problems than to despatch agents intent on violently resolving them.
http://www.allbusiness.com/mining/oil-gas-extraction-crude-petroleum-natural/794934-1.html

But you want to "assume" that is was the sanctions that did it? Did You know you can't find the word "naive" in the dictionary

You post opinion and I post fact.
Well, there you go boys and girls. The fundamental difference.

And as I predicted, you fluff it off.
I knew you would because you guys are so predictable. You ask for something then when you get it, this is the response.

Stay away from the White House.

[CowboyWay]

Wow. You have very little understanding of how the middle east works. Add to that the many young fledgling countries, not the least of them in the former Soviet Union that are trying to find their way, and you pose this garbage? You understand about like Obama does. And that is why Obama should not ever even sniff the white house.

See, this is EXACTLY my contention. NOBODY has much of an understanding of how the middle east works. For lack of a better term.....they are friggen wacky out there. Its like thunderdome. No rules.

And this is EXACTLY why IF my president chooses to have a meeting to figure out what the hell is going on out there, then there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE WORLD WRONG with finding out by having a sit down.

But people like you and McCain are so ridiculously worried about giving them some "legitimacy"?????? Its a completely asinine argument.

In your last post, you told me to "Stick my head back in the sand". But this is exactly what you and McCain would be doing by locking themselves into stupid rules on who you should or should not talk too.

I've made your points on this topic look ridiculous. And you know it.

[CowboyWay]

You post opinion and I post fact.
Well, there you go boys and girls. The fundamental difference.

And as I predicted, you fluff it off.
I knew you would because you guys are so predictable. You ask for something then when you get it, this is the response.

Stay away from the White House.

LOL, if you say so man. I'm still giggling about a guy who has a religious cross in his avatar telling me how little I know about the middle east. :laugh2:


Going to bed now. Goodnight.

[Cajuncowboy]

See, this is EXACTLY my contention. NOBODY has much of an understanding of how the middle east works. For lack of a better term.....they are friggen wacky out there. Its like thunderdome. No rules.

And this is EXACTLY why IF my president chooses to have a meeting to figure out what the hell is going on out there, then there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE WORLD WRONG with finding out by having a sit down.

But people like you and McCain are so ridiculously worried about giving them some "legitimacy"?????? Its a completely asinine argument.

In your last post, you told me to "Stick my head back in the sand". But this is exactly what you and McCain would be doing by locking themselves into stupid rules on who you should or should not talk too.

I've made your points on this topic look ridiculous. And you know it.

Claiming a false victory does nothing for you. The truth is your admitted lack of knowledge proves me out.

You can't embolden these rouge regimes by making them feel like they are getting what they want when you send the leader of the entire free world to meet with them. They simply accept that as carte blance to do whatever the heck they want. "Look at me. See how important I am. The American President is worried about me".

The only thing you've done is to prove your position ridiculous.

[ConcordCowboy]

Basically sums up my feelings. Not that agreeing with you should surprise me. We seem to agree a lot.

Great minds.

:D

[Cajuncowboy]

LOL, if you say so man. I'm still giggling about a guy who has a religious cross in his avatar telling me how little I know about the middle east. :laugh2:


Going to bed now. Goodnight.

I'm sorry...What does my faith have to do with my knowledge of the middle east?

Or is that something that you want to resort to when you've lost the argument. attack my faith or my intelligence because of it?

It obviously appears to be "Game Over". I win.

[Cajuncowboy]

Great minds.

:D

I hope he likes Penn State. He's gonna see alot of that from you in a few weeks. :D

[Heisenberg]

I do think that the polling showing that Obama did well in the debate is less about the debate substance and more about the fact that people know McCain. They've seen McCain quite a bit for the last few years. He's a known quantity.

Obama is still a bit of an unknown and the fact that he didn't fall on his face is probably considered a positive.

[ConcordCowboy]

I hope he likes Penn State. He's gonna see alot of that from you in a few weeks. :D

:laugh2:

You know how Penn St like to have their White Outs?

Well your better be ready to be blinded by the RED OUT that's coming you way...

As in a good old fashioned SCARLET OUT in your Sig.

:D

[ConcordCowboy]

I do think that the polling showing that Obama did well in the debate is less about the debate substance and more about the fact that people know McCain. They've seen McCain quite a bit for the last few years. He's a known quantity.

Obama is still a bit of an unknown and the fact that he didn't fall on his face is probably considered a positive.

Where have you seen this polling at?

[Heisenberg]

CNN just released their polling as well. Shows Obama up in debate performance.

Maybe I'm not the best one to judge this since I already knew what they'd say before they said it since I've followed the hell out of this election, but I saw at best a draw for Obama. That's at best.

[Heisenberg]

Where have you seen this polling at?

CNN was just talking about it. They did telephone polling. CBS did some as well. I posted pics of that in another thread.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129616

That's the thread with the CBS captures. I'll try and find text to back up the CNN one since I don't have pics in front of me.

[Cajuncowboy]

:laugh2:

You know how Penn St like to have their White Outs?

Well your better be ready to be blinded by the RED OUT that's coming you way...

As in a good old fashioned SCARLET OUT in your Sig.

:D

Whew. I thought you would have me use a USC logo??? :laugh2:

[ConcordCowboy]

Whew. I thought you would have me use a USC logo??? :laugh2:

Screw that...

I might give you the New OSU one.

Oregon State University.

:D

[ConcordCowboy]

CNN was just talking about it. They did telephone polling. CBS did some as well. I posted pics of that in another thread.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129616

That's the thread with the CBS captures. I'll try and find text to back up the CNN one since I don't have pics in front of me.

Thanks.

[Cajuncowboy]

Screw that...

I might give you the New OSU one.

Oregon State University.

:D

It would be a step up!

[Heisenberg]

Anyone else squirm in their seat when neither of the candidates would say whether they were for or against the bailout?

Wee. I love me some politics.

[SuspectCorner]

You'd think with thirty years of foreign policy experience McCain would completely smoke Obama in this first debate based greatly on that subject:

But McCain seemed to resist meeting Obama's gaze and was too often resorting to condescension when it was clearly obvious Obama had McCain nailed to knee-jerk wrong-headed opinions throughout the roadmap from Afghanistan to Iraq - with some Pakistan thrown in there as well (McCain struggled mightily, and received an assist from Obama, to pronounce the name of Ahmadinejad).

Obama seemed to have the class and self-confidence to acknowledged a few areas where McCain was right. McCain displayed no similar class by the way he snickered and stated that Mr. Obama "doesn't seem to understand".

In any conversation regarding the economy Obama could react in a similar manner RE McCain. But he chose not to - and passed on several gaffes tonight at which he could have rightly and unmercifully ripped on McCain. Two examples:

1) McCain's campaign committee ties to the ****heads that got us in this economic mess in then first place.

2) McCain's voting record RE the veterans he professes to love sooo much. Shocking and deplorable. He's a phony to his very core inn is treatment of vets.

I expected McCain to handle Obama in the area of foreign diplomacy... you can't synthesize three decades of experience. But our largest issues are domestic - and THAT is where Obama will shred McCain and his pro-Bush voting record.

[Heisenberg]

Something else I noticed. Why didn't McCain even look Obama's way? Even during the handshake, he wouldn't make eye contact. It was strange.

Again, not important. Just an observation.

[ConcordCowboy]

Something else I noticed. Why didn't McCain even look Obama's way? Even during the handshake, he wouldn't make eye contact. It was strange.

Again, not important. Just an observation.


Just about everyone was talking about that on MSNBC.

It could be more important than you think.

They were saying that that could hurt McCain in some peoples eyes.

I know that sounds weird that people would hold that kind of stuff against people, but they do.

I mentioned it during the debate to my wife a few times.

[ConcordCowboy]

You'd think with thirty years of foreign policy experience McCain would completely smoke Obama in this first debate based greatly on that subject:

But McCain seemed to resist meeting Obama's gaze and was too often resorting to condescension when it was clearly obvious Obama had McCain nailed to knee-jerk wrong-headed opinions throughout the roadmap from Afghanistan to Iraq - with some Pakistan thrown in there as well (McCain struggled mightily, and received an assist from Obama, to pronounce the name of Ahmadinejad).

Obama seemed to have the class and self-confidence to acknowledged a few areas where McCain was right. McCain displayed no similar class by the way he snickered and stated that Mr. Obama "doesn't seem to understand".

In any conversation regarding the economy Obama could react in a similar manner RE McCain. But he chose not to - and passed on several gaffes tonight at which he could have rightly and unmercifully ripped on McCain. Two examples:

1) McCain's campaign committee ties to the ****heads that got us in this economic mess in then first place.

2) McCain's voting record RE the veterans he professes to love sooo much. Shocking and deplorable. He's a phony to his very core inn is treatment of vets.

I expected McCain to handle Obama in the area of foreign diplomacy... you can't synthesize three decades of experience. But our largest issues are domestic - and THAT is where Obama will shred McCain and his pro-Bush voting record.

Agreed.

The two examples you gave...I was waiting for him to bring them up...but he didn't.

I was a little disappointed at that, especially the Vet voting issue.

[the fake norm hitzges]

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-presidential-debate

74% of people voting on MSNBC say Obama won the debate.

:laugh2:

That's just silly.



74% of people who watch msnbc are moron leftist.
a better name for msnbs is dnc tv

[SuspectCorner]

Agreed.

The two examples you gave...I was waiting for him to bring them up...but he didn't.

I was a little disappointed at that, especially the Vet voting issue.


That's just one of the areas where Joe Biden will be an asset - if it was McCain and Palin VS. Obama and Biden - tonite Joe woulda been very busy... whispering into Obama's ear<pssst... ask John about yadda yadda yadda>...

Notice Joe Biden is on a "zero leash" and roaming the countryside... can't say the same for Palin. Joe will rip her a new one. I think it will be very interesting - to say the least.

[Heisenberg]

That's just one of the areas where Joe Biden will be an asset - if it was McCain and Palin VS. Obama and Biden - tonite Joe woulda been very busy... whispering into Obama's ear<pssst... ask John about yadda yadda yadda>...

Notice Joe Biden is on a "zero leash" and roaming the countryside... can't say the same for Palin. Joe will rip her a new one. I think it will be very interesting - to say the least.

He tends to hang himself occasionally, but really, he connects with some of the voters that Obama tends to not connect as well with.

[masomenos]

Unfortunately no I don't. But I think it had something to do with the reason McCain didn't rip Barack on the economy. Morris said McCain should have said "Barack, you want the American Taxpayer to bail out the financial institutions and I want them to pay the debt back and buy insurance on the loans." Something to that effect. But I was in and out of the room and telling you how the election is over. :D

LOL

well, played sir, well played

[Beast_from_East]

It's not "HIS" people that are the issue. It's the credibility you give him among other nations. If they see the American President giving him credibility then they must assume he is legit.

This is why Obama is a huge mistake for this country. He knows nothing about foreign policy. When you go public about making attacks into another country who is supposed to be our ally you show your neophyte ways and are a danger.

I have to disagree with you my friend about this attack on Pakistan thing. If we got intel that Bin Laden or other Al Queda operatives are hiding in a house or meeting in a cave or something inside Pakistan and the Pakistan government wont get off their arse and do a dam thing about it, then we have to take the shot.

To ask for Pakistan's permission to take out Bin Laden is pure BS. I will pull the trigger myself if we have him in the crosshairs.

[canters]

My reading of McCain's not making eye contact with Barry was that he was being dismissive,,,,as if Barry was not worthy of being on the stage with him.....

As for the debate,,,I thought they both did better than I thought they would,,I was impressed with both. I feel better about Barry being Prez, as a leader, if he wins....That being said, I am voting for Johm M.

[vta]

Something else I noticed. Why didn't McCain even look Obama's way? Even during the handshake, he wouldn't make eye contact. It was strange.

Again, not important. Just an observation.

I noticed that from the start too and it bothered me.
Disingenuous.

[trickblue]

McCain takes these campaigns personal. He did the same thing in 2000. He gets angry inside and isn't going to look at his opponent...

[ConcordCowboy]

That's just one of the areas where Joe Biden will be an asset - if it was McCain and Palin VS. Obama and Biden - tonite Joe woulda been very busy... whispering into Obama's ear<pssst... ask John about yadda yadda yadda>...

Notice Joe Biden is on a "zero leash" and roaming the countryside... can't say the same for Palin. Joe will rip her a new one. I think it will be very interesting - to say the least.

Funny you should mention Biden and Palin.

Biden was on Olbermann last night and was just sticking it to McCain with all kinds of things that I'm sure Obama will hearing about.

One of the things he said was look I've been to Iraq and Afghanistan as many times as John and just because John's been there so and so times doesn't make him right.

It's like Palin seeing Russia and all of a sudden she's an expert. Ridiculous.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That was me saying that not Biden.

As I was watching him...I thought you know...where's Palin tonight...how come she's not out defending McCain?

We know why.

:laugh2:

[Rowdy]

McCain not making eye contact IMO was the fact he simply does not respect Obama. If Hillary was up there, I feel he would have changed his behavior.

[canters]

McCain not making eye contact IMO was the fact he simply does not respect Obama. If Hillary was up there, I feel he would have changed his behavior.

The lack of eye-contact was jedi-mind games. I would not recommend he do that again....the average voter does not like stuff like that and Barry could get some symphany support.

[ChldsPlay]

Am I the only one who finds these debates, or rather most of the talk afterwards pretty useless and just plain stupid?

It's just sad that people base their idea of who won a debate more on how someone looks, their posture, gestures, eye movement, and how they follow the "rules" of debate rather than by what each person actually says.

"Hey X made a great point about such and such and Y had a really poor response that even a 5 year old could out do, but Y was so smooth, and I didn't like the way X made this weird face a couple of times. I think Y really won the debate handily."

That's what I've gotten out of the post debate crap that goes on the last few elections.

[vta]

Am I the only one who finds these debates, or rather most of the talk afterwards pretty useless and just plain stupid?

It's just sad that people base their idea of who won a debate more on how someone looks, their posture, gestures, eye movement, and how they follow the "rules" of debate rather than by what each person actually says.

"Hey X made a great point about such and such and Y had a really poor response that even a 5 year old could out do, but Y was so smooth, and I didn't like the way X made this weird face a couple of times. I think Y really won the debate handily."

That's what I've gotten out of the post debate crap that goes on the last few elections.

Well in the face of no such points being made, you're left with the behaviour of the candidates, which, like it or not say's very much about a person.

No body speaks in monotone, spitting out emprical information, they're humans and their demeanor reflects on how their word's are interpreted. Their poise in situations, whether or not their willing to be honest, etc.

[Beast_from_East]

McCain takes these campaigns personal. He did the same thing in 2000. He gets angry inside and isn't going to look at his opponent...

Maybe he has to do that to get himself "mentally in the game" so to speak, but it came across on TV very badly.

That made him look like a grumpy old man that didnt have enough respect for his oppenent to even acknoledge his existence.

I think this really turned off alot of people and his debate prep team needs to really talk to him and tell him not to do that again.

In debates the visual is sometimes more important than what is actually said and McCain did not look very good last night, that probably explains most of these polls that show Obama won.

[Beast_from_East]

Am I the only one who finds these debates, or rather most of the talk afterwards pretty useless and just plain stupid?

It's just sad that people base their idea of who won a debate more on how someone looks, their posture, gestures, eye movement, and how they follow the "rules" of debate rather than by what each person actually says.

"Hey X made a great point about such and such and Y had a really poor response that even a 5 year old could out do, but Y was so smooth, and I didn't like the way X made this weird face a couple of times. I think Y really won the debate handily."

That's what I've gotten out of the post debate crap that goes on the last few elections.

A picture is worth a thousand words and most people make up their minds off pictures, not is what is actually said.

Take your avatar for example. You have a picture of Jerry with a weird look on his face. This picture conveys the message that Jerry is a dunce or doesnt know what he is doing or some other negative connotation.

I have listened to Jerry speak in person and he is actually very intelligent and a very good speaker. However, the stereotype of Jerry is that he is just a dunce and doesnt know jack.

Your avatar reinforces that image. Hence, the image of McCain refusing to look at his opponent at making faces during the debate conveys the same negative connotation that your avatar does about Jerry.

My .02

[ConcordCowboy]

Maybe he has to do that to get himself "mentally in the game" so to speak, but it came across on TV very badly.

That made him look like a grumpy old man that didnt have enough respect for his oppenent to even acknoledge his existence.

I think this really turned off alot of people and his debate prep team needs to really talk to him and tell him not to do that again.

In debates the visual is sometimes more important than what is actually said and McCain did not look very good last night, that probably explains most of these polls that show Obama won.

Chris Matthews said he looked like a Troll.

All bent over and grumpy looking.

:laugh2:

[Kangaroo]

For those who are interested...

This country is going to be doomed for the next 4 years; this election is going to fast track us to the bottom of the barrel no matter who wins

:ralph:

[Heisenberg]

This country is going to be doomed for the next 4 years; this election is going to fast track us to the bottom of the barrel no matter who wins

:ralph:

I think that says less about who the next president is than the direction we're moving in at the moment. Whoever becomes the next president is going to have a full plate.