If I were on the fence...

[vta]

I'd probably still be on the fence and really I am. Not that I'd vote or Obama, but do I have confidence in McCain? Not really. He's learned the politics game quite well and he's playing it, and that's disheartening.

Watching this debate I don't see a cut and dry victory for anyone. I see a lot of posturing and political double speak. Obama seems more genuine; he's more genuine in his approach and in his message and he feels he's doing the right thing.

McCain all too often simply spoke of his record and experience, but offered no tangible policy that will make a difference. He stated that something has to be done, true, but not really what has to be done. He talked about cutting spending, he mentioned a few area's and Obama countered. I didn't come away feeling he has an answer.

Overall, in terms of economy, I'd say they both make salient points and I'd have a hard time, were I not so against Universal Healthcare.

The war in in Iraq and on terrorism in general, McCain hands down. I get the feeling Obama is playing to his base with his comments. I can't believe anyone in such a position is so naive about what the core of the problem is and will pander to the instant gratification sector of our society and talk about 9/11/bin Laden as though they are the root cause of the problem. They are the culmination, and very far from the root. Let's quit around and get down to brass tacks. Killing a battalion of U.S. Marines won't change American ideology, and killing a popular icon of terrorism won't defeat the ideology that spawned it.

McCain came across as a bit dissembling. Neither really gave a straight forward answer, much to the mediator's chagrin, who had to ask his question thrice, but McCain never acknowledged and went off on tangents, concerning his record and experience, which doesn't afford concrete answers to now and the future.

Simply: those in Obama's corner, will stay in Obama's corner, those in McCains corner will remain in his corner.

I'm not overly impressed with either, but I will stick with something I've said on an occasion or two: McCain will win and hold office for a term, a Democrat will then take the White House. Probably Clinton.

[WoodysGirl]

Didn't want to let this go unnoticed. Great post, vta.

[vta]

Didn't want to let this go unnoticed. Great post, vta.

Thanks. ;)

[EveryoneElse]

I'd probably still be on the fence and really I am. Not that I'd vote or Obama, but do I have confidence in McCain? Not really. He's learned the politics game quite well and he's playing it, and that's disheartening.

Watching this debate I don't see a cut and dry victory for anyone. I see a lot of posturing and political double speak. Obama seems more genuine; he's more genuine in his approach and in his message and he feels he's doing the right thing.

McCain all too often simply spoke of his record and experience, but offered no tangible policy that will make a difference. He stated that something has to be done, true, but not really what has to be done. He talked about cutting spending, he mentioned a few area's and Obama countered. I didn't come away feeling he has an answer.

Overall, in terms of economy, I'd say they both make salient points and I'd have a hard time, were I not so against Universal Healthcare.

The war in in Iraq and on terrorism in general, McCain hands down. I get the feeling Obama is playing to his base with his comments. I can't believe anyone in such a position is so naive about what the core of the problem is and will pander to the instant gratification sector of our society and talk about 9/11/bin Laden as though they are the root cause of the problem. They are the culmination, and very far from the root. Let's quit around and get down to brass tacks. Killing a battalion of U.S. Marines won't change American ideology, and killing a popular icon of terrorism won't defeat the ideology that spawned it.

McCain came across as a bit dissembling. Neither really gave a straight forward answer, much to the mediator's chagrin, who had to ask his question thrice, but McCain never acknowledged and went off on tangents, concerning his record and experience, which doesn't afford concrete answers to now and the future.

Simply: those in Obama's corner, will stay in Obama's corner, those in McCains corner will remain in his corner.

I'm not overly impressed with either, but I will stick with something I've said on an occasion or two: McCain will win and hold office for a term, a Democrat will then take the White House. Probably Clinton.


Well, then that lumps you in with 1% of people who have voted in a poll on fox news tonight.

Who won the debate?

82% McCain
15% Obama
1% Undecided

[Heisenberg]

Well, then that lumps you in with 1% of people who have voted in a poll on fox news tonight.

Who won the debate?

82% McCain
15% Obama
1% Undecided

Amazing the difference in opinion based on what channel people were watching. From CBS:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81/kos102/2008/Campaign/Blowout-1.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81/kos102/2008/Campaign/Blowout-3.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81/kos102/2008/Campaign/Blowout-2.jpg

[Eric_Boyer]

Well, then that lumps you in with 1% of people who have voted in a poll on fox news tonight.

Who won the debate?

82% McCain
15% Obama
1% Undecided

faux news :laugh2:

[adamc91115]

I would trust Fox's polls more than any others...

They have nearly equal numbers of Republican, Democrat, and Independent viewers.

[Eric_Boyer]

I would trust Fox's polls more than any others...

They have nearly equal numbers of Republican, Democrat, and Independent viewers.

sure they do. :laugh2:

[Dallas]

sure they do. :laugh2:


Im not saying they do or don't. It is proven time and time again how left leaning both ABC/CNN/CBS and NBC are.

Why does Fox beat the piss out of all of the news networks? Im just curious.

[bobtheflob]

OK, Fox's poll was a text poll where any viewer could text in who they thought won. The CBS (and other networks) poll was a legitimate telephone survey, so it is far more accurate.

[Heisenberg]

OK, Fox's poll was a text poll where any viewer could text in who they thought won. The CBS (and other networks) poll was a legitimate telephone survey, so it is far more accurate.

Ron Paul always won those. I guess his supporters have finally given up the fight. :(

[Dallas]

OK, Fox's poll was a text poll where any viewer could text in who they thought won. The CBS (and other networks) poll was a legitimate telephone survey, so it is far more accurate.

Just how did they do this PHONE survey? You seem to know a lot about the phone survey. Where was it taken? Which demographic area was CHOSEN?

Any idea? I didn't get a phone call. Im kinda upset.

[bobtheflob]

Just how did they do this PHONE survey? You seem to know a lot about the phone survey. Where was it taken? Which demographic area was CHOSEN?

Any idea? I didn't get a phone call. Im kinda upset.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml

"CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

Thirty-nine percent of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. Twenty-four percent thought John McCain won. Thirty-seven percent saw it as a draw.

Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight. Thirty-two percent said their opinion of McCain got better.

Sixty-six percent of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-two percent think McCain would.

Forty-eight percent of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. Fifty-six percent think McCain would.

We will have a full report on the poll later on. Uncommitted voters are those who don't yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidate but may still change their minds.

The margin of sampling error could be plus or minus 4 percentage points for results based on the entire sample."

[Heisenberg]

CNN poll numbers:

Who did the best job in the debate?

Barack Obama 51
John McCain 38

Who would better handle Iraq?

Barack Obama 52
John McCain 47

Who would better handle the economy?

Barack Obama 58
John McCain 37

Copied and pasted from MyDD.com

[Eric_Boyer]

Im not saying they do or don't. It is proven time and time again how left leaning both ABC/CNN/CBS and NBC are.

Why does Fox beat the piss out of all of the news networks? Im just curious.

This election is going to be extremely close.

There is no way you could of watched this debate and left thinking that 82% of the electorate would of clearly sided with either of the candidates after this debate.

And as someone else pointed out, Ron Paul's supporters (god bless us) showed how easy it is to game these text messaging polls.

[Heisenberg]

MediaCurves.com polling. Appears they didn't convince each others base, but it appears Obama did well with independent voters.

http://mediacurves.com/

http://mediacurves.com/images/image1.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image2.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image3.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image4.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image5.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image6.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image7.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image8.gif

http://mediacurves.com/images/image9.gif

[Dallas]

This election is going to be extremely close.

There is no way you could of watched this debate and left thinking that 82% of the electorate would of clearly sided with either of the candidates after this debate.

And as someone else pointed out, Ron Paul's supporters (god bless us) showed how easy it is to game these text messaging polls.


I never said the vote was scientific. What is laughable is you have others in this same thread posting pretty much the same thing they are complaining against.

I get more entertainment from the left and right throwing up these polls and numbers like its some scientific fact. Thats rediculous.

Let them believe though, if that makes them sleep better at night. Im not one to get involved w/ any polls or numbers. Thats crazy thinking.

[ConcordCowboy]

MediaCurves.com polling. Appears they didn't convince each others base, but it appears Obama did well with independent voters.



That's very good to see.

[Royal Laegotti]

That's very good to see.
No it's not!!!1:mad:

:laugh2:

[ConcordCowboy]

No it's not!!!1:mad:

:laugh2:

Get off the RMS Mctanic...it's going down.

:D

[masomenos]

After watching the debate on FoxNews I went over to a friends house who had just gotten off of work and Tivoed the debate on CNN. The CNN broadcast (or at least the CNN HD) had a constant tracker of a focus group responding positively or negatively to both candidates. Obama was consistently ranked positive by independents and even had the republicans a lot of the time. I thought that Obama lost the debate but the public perception seems to be much different.

[Heisenberg]

After watching the debate on FoxNews I went over to a friends house who had just gotten off of work and Tivoed the debate on CNN. The CNN broadcast (or at least the CNN HD) had a constant tracker of a focus group responding positively or negatively to both candidates. Obama was consistently ranked positive by independents and even had the republicans a lot of the time. I thought that Obama lost the debate but the public perception seems to be much different.

People make judgements for strange reasons. Pretty much everyone who is in here at least follows politics. To the average Joe who doesn't follow politics, it comes down to things like likeability and demeanor.

In the debate last night, the split screen did McCain no favors. He does the creepy smile and the smirk a lot. He also wouldn't actually look at Obama. He also kept saying Obama doesn't understand, but then Obama would give an intelligent answer that made it seem like he DID understand. It just didn't play well.

[Heisenberg]

Oh and the bracelet comparison? I wasn't a big fan of that.

What was interesting, though, is that the Obama campaign knew it was coming. Supposedly McCain uses it all the time and actually has a visual cue when he's about to pull it out, strangely enough.

[Beast_from_East]

People make judgements for strange reasons. Pretty much everyone who is in here at least follows politics. To the average Joe who doesn't follow politics, it comes down to things like likeability and demeanor.

In the debate last night, the split screen did McCain no favors. He does the creepy smile and the smirk a lot. He also wouldn't actually look at Obama. He also kept saying Obama doesn't understand, but then Obama would give an intelligent answer that made it seem like he DID understand. It just didn't play well.

Seems like McCain won on points, but Obama won on the visual. Apparently the split screen made McCain look like a hunchback or something. At least that is what most of my friends are saying this morning, take it for what it is worth.

Overall, I really dont think this debate is going to mean anything. Obama is up 3-5% nationwide in most tracking polls and I dont see this debate changing that. McCain needs a "game changer" or he is going to lose this election and this first debate was strike 1.

[trickblue]

You know... I get sick of the "undecided voter" every election cycle...

I think it is a cry for attention. How, in this election, can you be undecided? These two candidates are vastly different. How can someone not have already made a choice?

In reality I doubt anyone is going into the voting booth thinking... "Darn... who should I vote for"?

[jwhardin]

I had a problem understanding what language Obama speaking at the begining of some of his answers. ah ummah ah ah ummm

[vta]

You know... I get sick of the "undecided voter" every election cycle...

I think it is a cry for attention. How, in this election, can you be undecided? These two candidates are vastly different. How can someone not have already made a choice?

In reality I doubt anyone is going into the voting booth thinking... "Darn... who should I vote for"?

I'm not sure it's a matter of indecision, as much as discontent, with what's available. The only choice is, do I bother or don't I?

[vta]

Polls don't mean a thing. CBS isn't wrong and Fox isn't right, they're just representative of their own viewing audience.

The Obama people, by and large will feel he won, and the McCain people will do exactly the same. The people who aren't impressed with either will be just as unimpressed.

[WoodysGirl]

You know... I get sick of the "undecided voter" every election cycle...

I think it is a cry for attention. How, in this election, can you be undecided? These two candidates are vastly different. How can someone not have already made a choice?

In reality I doubt anyone is going into the voting booth thinking... "Darn... who should I vote for"?
As an undecided voter, it's pretty simple. I like things about both candidates, but not enough to say he's my guy. I really liked McCain at one point...now, not so much.

Was never a big fan of Barack Obama, but I do like some of the things he's said.

Not a fan of big speeches, so I didn't really pay attn to the national conventions. The debates offer something a little better for viewing...even tho they're politicking.

[ConcordCowboy]

As an undecided voter, it's pretty simple. I like things about both candidates, but not enough to say he's my guy. I really liked McCain at one point...now, not so much.

Was never a big fan of Barack Obama, but I do like some of the things he's said.

Not a fan of big speeches, so I didn't really pay attn to the national conventions. The debates offer something a little better for viewing...even tho they're politicking.

Why?

Do you not like him or his policies?

And on the other side...why did you really like McCain but not now?

Just interested in how a undecided voter thinks.

[trickblue]

I'm not sure it's a matter of indecision, as much as discontent, with what's available. The only choice is, do I bother or don't I?

That's different. THe only reason I'm going to vote this cycle is so I can legitimately *****... :D

I mean the ones going in... "hmmmm... McCain or Obama.... McCain or Obama"...

Is anyone really doing that?

[ZeroClub]

People make judgements for strange reasons. Pretty much everyone who is in here at least follows politics. To the average Joe who doesn't follow politics, it comes down to things like likeability and demeanor.

In the debate last night, the split screen did McCain no favors. He does the creepy smile and the smirk a lot. He also wouldn't actually look at Obama. He also kept saying Obama doesn't understand, but then Obama would give an intelligent answer that made it seem like he DID understand. It just didn't play well.

That's a good point about how it is difficult to gauge what swings impressions and opinions.

I've long thought that one should just turn down the sound and look at the images in order to get a clearer impression of what the average Joe takes away from a debate.

I guess one question is .... how many average Joes were watching the debate? Are they suddenly paying attention now?

[WoodysGirl]

Why?

Do you not like him or his policies?

And on the other side...why did you really like McCain but not now?

Just interested in how a undecided voter thinks.I liked the McCain of 2000. I liked the guy who really was a maverick and free-thinking Congressman. He seemed to be more of a moderate than many Republicans. I liked that about him. It meant that no matter what the talking points were, I felt like he would be open to changing it up to get something done. In the past two years to get elected, he's changed 180 degrees and he's toed the party line so he could get elected.

My gripes with Obama have been that he's only been on the national scene five minutes and wants to run the country. I've read up on him and followed him heavily through the democratic primaries. And how he's run his campaign is actually impressive.

Another thing about Obama that's bothered me is how he's thrown his associates, especially his pastor under the bus in order to get elected. (Ayers, Wright, et al)

As for the general issues, before the bailout, both candidates tax plan were about the same. Draw for me.

Foreign policy - McCain wins hands down.

the Health care plan by Obama was a sort of plus. I liked the idea of it making it affordable, but I didn't think the insurance companies would go for it. Honestly, I don't think insurance premiums are too outrageous now, it's the eligibility requirements insurance companies use to accept/decline people that should be changed. McCain's health care credit didn't appeal to me.

I'm not sure what would make me sold on either candidate, but I think a big one would be how they change their plans after the bailout goes through. From what I've been reading, neither of their plans can go through after the bailout. The money won't be there, so they'll absolutely have to make changes.

[WoodysGirl]

That's a good point about how it is difficult to gauge what swings impressions and opinions.

I've long thought that one should just turn down the sound and look at the images in order to get a clearer impression of what the average Joe takes away from a debate.

I guess one question is .... how many average Joes were watching the debate? Are they suddenly paying attention now?
I think they are. There are alot more people engaged in the political process now, so I figured they watched some of it. I actually got emails from clubs offering watch parties. First time I've ever gotten those.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Seems like McCain won on points, but Obama won on the visual. Apparently the split screen made McCain look like a hunchback or something. At least that is what most of my friends are saying this morning, take it for what it is worth.

Overall, I really dont think this debate is going to mean anything. Obama is up 3-5% nationwide in most tracking polls and I dont see this debate changing that. McCain needs a "game changer" or he is going to lose this election and this first debate was strike 1.


I agree Beast. Obama is just so much better at the auditorial skills, it automatically puts him out front. It's hard to be preceived as winning when most everybody believes you've lost the minute you walk out on to the stage, on appearance alone.

It has nothing to do with how well you can actually do the job but most in our society will be swayed by this. It's human nature I suppose.

I don't believe that this thing was strike one but I do believe both Cadidates missed an opportunity to win this thing. The County was looking for one of these men to stand up and say something that the Country could believe in. Neither did that. I have to admit that I was disappointed myself. I wanted McCain to stand up and lead and neither really did that in regards to this Bailout.

JMO

[Eric_Boyer]

You know... I get sick of the "undecided voter" every election cycle...

I think it is a cry for attention. How, in this election, can you be undecided? These two candidates are vastly different. How can someone not have already made a choice?

In reality I doubt anyone is going into the voting booth thinking... "Darn... who should I vote for"?

vastly different?

They both support bailout packages. They both support foreign intervention. They both support redistribution of wealth.

Dealing with a few percentage points for top marginal tax rates and if you are going to talk to leaders is not vastly different. They are mildly different.

[MilesAustinforMVP]

Overall, in terms of economy, I'd say they both make salient points and I'd have a hard time, were I not so against Universal Healthcare.

http://media.gallup.com/GPTB/healthcare/20030325_1.gifhttp://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/Healthcare-System-Ratings-US-Great-Britain-Canada.aspx

[MilesAustinforMVP]

Foreign policy - McCain wins hands down.

.

Really? He didn't know that Ayatollah Kamenei controlled Iran's foreign policy. That's a little disturbing. Obama actually had to correct him on that.

[Beast_from_East]

I agree Beast. Obama is just so much better at the auditorial skills, it automatically puts him out front. It's hard to be preceived as winning when most everybody believes you've lost the minute you walk out on to the stage, on appearance alone.

It has nothing to do with how well you can actually do the job but most in our society will be swayed by this. It's human nature I suppose.

I don't believe that this thing was strike one but I do believe both Cadidates missed an opportunity to win this thing. The County was looking for one of these men to stand up and say something that the Country could believe in. Neither did that. I have to admit that I was disappointed myself. I wanted McCain to stand up and lead and neither really did that in regards to this Bailout.

JMO

I thought they would spend more time on the bailout, why it happened, why we have to intervine, ect...

Seemed like the conversation quickly went to earmarks? Who cares about freaking earmarks when we are fixing to spend a trillion dollars to bailout Wallstreet???

Most, if not all, of the debate should have been about the bailout, in my opinion.

[Heisenberg]

I thought they would spend more time on the bailout, why it happened, why we have to intervine, ect...

Seemed like the conversation quickly went to earmarks? Who cares about freaking earmarks when we are fixing to spend a trillion dollars to bailout Wallstreet???

Most, if not all, of the debate should have been about the bailout, in my opinion.

I think the reason that the conversation turned to earmarks is because when the economy is discussed, that's McCain's deal. He pulled the conversation there and Obama went on defense.

I'm hoping that the domestic policy debate will actually talk about more than earmarks.

[adamc91115]

Really? He didn't know that Ayatollah Kamenei controlled Iran's foreign policy. That's a little disturbing. Obama actually had to correct him on that.

And I've got ocean front property in Arizona.

[dbair1967]

Really? He didn't know that Ayatollah Kamenei controlled Iran's foreign policy. That's a little disturbing. Obama actually had to correct him on that.

Maybe McCain should have corrected O on how many states we have here.

[MilesAustinforMVP]

And I've got ocean front property in Arizona.

Is that next to Spain (http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080918/wl_time/didmccaindissspain)?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[MilesAustinforMVP]

Maybe McCain should have corrected O on how many states we have here.

Is that the only thing you got? That misspeak has been recycled by you guys over and over again. It loses its effect after awhile.

[ConcordCowboy]

Is that the only thing you got? That misspeak has been recycled by you guys over and over again. It loses its effect after awhile.

That's what I was thinking.

Keep repeating that...I'm sure it will win McCain the election.

NOT!

:laugh2:

[Heisenberg]

Is that the only thing you got? That misspeak has been recycled by you guys over and over again. It loses its effect after awhile.

It fits in with the meme that Obama is lost without a teleprompter. I missed the teleprompter last night. It must have been around there somewhere...

[ConcordCowboy]

It fits in with the meme that Obama is lost without a teleprompter. I missed the teleprompter last night. It must have been around there somewhere...

Me too.

:rolleyes:

[dbair1967]

Is that the only thing you got? That misspeak has been recycled by you guys over and over again. It loses its effect after awhile.

Just one of many...its just the one I chose to put in that post.

Let me guess, you probably "fainted" too when you heard this turd speak one time right?

[MilesAustinforMVP]

Just one of many...its just the one I chose to put in that post.

Let me guess, you probably "fainted" too when you heard this turd speak one time right?
Not quite. You don't want to know what I did. Lets just leave it at that...

[Sasquatch]

Bravo, VTA. It's nice to seem someone attempt an objective analysis out here. Well done.

[sbark]

I'd probably still be on the fence and really I am. Not that I'd vote or Obama, but do I have confidence in McCain? Not really. He's learned the politics game quite well and he's playing it, and that's disheartening.

Watching this debate I don't see a cut and dry victory for anyone. I see a lot of posturing and political double speak. Obama seems more genuine; he's more genuine in his approach and in his message and he feels he's doing the right thing.

McCain all too often simply spoke of his record and experience, but offered no tangible policy that will make a difference. He stated that something has to be done, true, but not really what has to be done. He talked about cutting spending, he mentioned a few area's and Obama countered. I didn't come away feeling he has an answer.

Overall, in terms of economy, I'd say they both make salient points and I'd have a hard time, were I not so against Universal Healthcare.

The war in in Iraq and on terrorism in general, McCain hands down. I get the feeling Obama is playing to his base with his comments. I can't believe anyone in such a position is so naive about what the core of the problem is and will pander to the instant gratification sector of our society and talk about 9/11/bin Laden as though they are the root cause of the problem. They are the culmination, and very far from the root. Let's quit around and get down to brass tacks. Killing a battalion of U.S. Marines won't change American ideology, and killing a popular icon of terrorism won't defeat the ideology that spawned it.

McCain came across as a bit dissembling. Neither really gave a straight forward answer, much to the mediator's chagrin, who had to ask his question thrice, but McCain never acknowledged and went off on tangents, concerning his record and experience, which doesn't afford concrete answers to now and the future.

Simply: those in Obama's corner, will stay in Obama's corner, those in McCains corner will remain in his corner.

I'm not overly impressed with either, but I will stick with something I've said on an occasion or two: McCain will win and hold office for a term, a Democrat will then take the White House. Probably Clinton.

probably right, in that no-one changes their mind over that debate

but it really comes down to Downside risk....or the management thereof

There is probably little upside potential of either candidate, but the potential downside risk to obama is in-estimateable...

No experience, no judgement, character as evidenced by long time associations.

If there is even the minute chance, the smallest chance that his true allegience is not with the USA---he does not get the POTUS

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

His stance on energy, on spending, on taxation all put the USA economy more at risk on top of this financial crisis

His campaign stance on free speech in Missouri, on the NRA ads clearly indicate the direction he will take

The 10 things Obama is most afraid of............Bill of Rights....:eek:

in any facet of life...one weighs the upside against the downside risk..

[masomenos]

probably right, in that no-one changes their mind over that debate

but it really comes down to Downside risk....or the management thereof

There is probably little upside potential of either candidate, but the potential downside risk to obama is in-estimateable...

No experience, no judgement, character as evidenced by long time associations.

If there is even the minute chance, the smallest chance that his true allegience is not with the USA---he does not get the POTUS

From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the politicalwinds shift in an ugly direction.'

His stance on energy, on spending, on taxation all put the USA economy more at risk on top of this financial crisis

His campaign stance on free speech in Missouri, on the NRA ads clearly indicate the direction he will take

The 10 things Obama is most afraid of............Bill of Rights....:eek:

in any facet of life...one weighs the upside against the downside risk..

It is foolish to take quotes out of context.


"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

[sbark]

It is foolish to take quotes out of context.





oh, you mean as in the 100 rumors and lies on Palin founded by Obama Campaign lawyers sent to Alaska, from D.Kos and Huff post.......

clear as mud.........

[masomenos]

oh, you mean as in the 100 rumors and lies on Palin founded by Obama Campaign lawyers sent to Alaska, from D.Kos and Huff post.......

clear as mud.........

What? No, I wasn't talking about that at all. I was talking about a quote that you included in your post that was taken out of context. Do campaigns take quotes out of context? Yes, both sides do it. That doesn't mean you should.