McCain's 300 Billion Dollar WHAT?

[ScipioCowboy]

During tonight's debate, McCain unveils a huge surprise within his economic package: a 300 billion dollar plan to buy up and refinance defaulting mortgages, which, when combined with the 750 billion dollar plan already approved by Congress, will further nationalize the financial industry.

Say what?

So, here are our candidates:

1) McCain, who wants even more government involvement in the housing market.

2) Obama, who seeks wealth redistribution and socialized medicine.

In essence, our choices are socialism and more socialism.

I can't tell you just how awesome I feel right now.

I see no other option: From this point forth, I will be referring to all of my friends and fellow Zoners as comrade.
:lmao2:

[Heisenberg]

Just a small correction:

Obama is not for socialized medicine. I repeat, he is NOT for socialized medicine. That would imply that we'd be going to something like they have in Canada. That's not what he's proposing. He's proposing affordable government supplied health insurance.

And wealth distribution? I'm not going to be able to convince anyone on that. :D

[ScipioCowboy]

Just a small correction:

Obama is not for socialized medicine. I repeat, he is NOT for socialized medicine. That would imply that we'd be going to something like they have in Canada. That's not what he's proposing. He's proposing affordable government supplied health insurance.

And wealth distribution? I'm not going to be able to convince anyone on that. :D

And how is this not socialized medicine?

As soon as you involve the government, you have socialism on some scale. Perhaps it's not the level of socialism inherent to the Canadian system, but it is socialistic.

[Heisenberg]

And how is this not socialized medicine?

As soon as you involve the government, you have socialism on some scale. Perhaps it's not the level of socialism inherent to the Canadian system, but it is socialistic.

"Socialism"-wise, I'd put it on the level of say Medicare or Social Security. Yes, it'll be called socialistic, but it's not near the level of actual socialized medicine. There's a big difference.

In Canada, the big complaint I always hear is that the quality isn't as good and there's a wait. Obama's plan just makes sure that more people are insured and that kids are ALWAYS insured. It's still the same privatized health industry where you can choose whatever doctor you want, the same quality of care as we have now, it's just insurance.

Insurance vs Top to bottom government run healthcare is not the same thing by any stretch.

[Danny White]

I've talked a lot about instincts in this election. What kind of a philosophical compass does a candidate have?

McCain's instincts are so incredibly bad on so many issues, it makes my conservative head spin.

I think I'm going to cut off the "McCain" part of my McCain/Palin bumper sticker. [smiley intentionally left off]

[Sasquatch]

Not sure how you talk about reducing government spending, cutting taxes, AND bailing out US homeowners.

I guess this is the "throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks" phase of a moribund McCain campaign.

[ScipioCowboy]

"Socialism"-wise, I'd put it on the level of say Medicare or Social Security. Yes, it'll be called socialistic, but it's not near the level of actual socialized medicine. There's a big difference.

In Canada, the big complaint I always hear is that the quality isn't as good and there's a wait. Obama's plan just makes sure that more people are insured and that kids are ALWAYS insured. It's still the same privatized health industry where you can choose whatever doctor you want, the same quality of care as we have now, it's just insurance.

Insurance vs Top to bottom government run healthcare is not the same thing by any stretch.

In my opinion, Obama's plan is a rather large step up on the socialism scale from Medicare and Social Security, which, by the way, the government has handled less than masterfully.

But there's absolutely no question about it: It is an actual increase in the level of socialism within the US health car system, even though it may not yet reach the level inherent to the Canadian system.

In any event, this thread was really intended as a McCain-bash, not an Obama-bash, surprisingly.:)

[Heisenberg]

In my opinion, Obama's plan is a rather large step up on the socialism scale from Medicare and Social Security, which, by the way, the government has handled less than masterfully.

But there's absolutely no question about it: It is an actual increase in the level of socialism with the US health car system, even though it may not yet reach the level inherent to the Canadian system.

In any event, this thread was really intended as a McCain-bash, not an Obama-bash, surprisingly.:)

Sorry about the derail. I just hear that term a lot and it sets off sirens in my head and I can't stop myself from responding. :o:

[Sasquatch]

In Canada, the big complaint I always hear is that the quality isn't as good and there's a wait.

Well, the line tends to be a little shorter when you kick 40 million people to the curb.

Do note that for all the faults of socialized medicine there isn't a single country with it where significant numbers of people are clamoring for a for-profit health care system like the United States. It seems that we are the only ones that regard it so highly, anecdotal evidence of a smattering of folks coming to the country for medical treatment notwithstanding.

[burmafrd]

As usual sasqie you are all wet. having lived for 6 years just 30 miles form the Canadian border I can tell you that you are badly wrong. But nothing unusual about that.

[Sasquatch]

As usual sasqie you are all wet. having lived for 6 years just 30 miles form the Canadian border I can tell you that you are badly wrong. But nothing unusual about that.

Shouldn't be too difficult to find evidence that the majority of Canadians want a privatized health care system if that's the case.

[Big Dakota]

Not sure how you talk about reducing government spending, cutting taxes, AND bailing out US homeowners.

I guess this is the "throw Jello on the wall and see what sticks" phase of a moribund McCain campaign.


Fixed it for ya ;)

[Vintage]

And how is this not socialized medicine?

As soon as you involve the government, you have socialism on some scale. Perhaps it's not the level of socialism inherent to the Canadian system, but it is socialistic.


How much do I want to wager that you don't complain about the military, fire department, police departments, highway construction stuff, etc.

All of which involve public funding. All of which involve the gov't. All of which are Socialistic, according to you.

You are a pinko Commie too.

[BrAinPaiNt]

How much do I want to wager that you don't complain about the military, fire department, police departments, highway construction stuff, etc.

All of which involve public funding. All of which involve the gov't. All of which are Socialistic, according to you.

You are a pinko Commie too.

Commie Pinkos are running around unfettered.

I think we need to get Sarah back to alaska to see if Putin is looking over and dropping commie pinkos into our country while she is away.

[theogt]

As if it wasn't already readily apparent, Obama is going to win in a landslide.

[Vintage]

Commie Pinkos are running around unfettered.

I think we need to get Sarah back to alaska to see if Putin is looking over and dropping commie pinkos into our country while she is away.

I feel surrounded by them....


Then again, Russia is my neighbor.

[Big Dakota]

Commie Pinkos are running around unfettered.

I think we need to get Sarah back to alaska to see if Putin is looking over and dropping commie pinkos into our country while she is away.

:lmao2:
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://maochan.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/oh-snap.jpg&usg=AFQjCNHXd4MUbekzpxWg93cXNes96ke-9w

[Bach]

During tonight's debate, McCain unveils a huge surprise within his economic package: a 300 billion dollar plan to buy up and refinance defaulting mortgages, which, when combined with the 750 billion dollar plan already approved by Congress, will further nationalize the financial industry.


It's not combined. His proposal is taking the 300 billion out of the 700 billion that was already passed.

WASHINGTON (AP) - John McCain's proposal to buy up bad home mortgages would use nearly half the $700 billion from the recent Wall Street bailout package to assist Americans directly, instead of indirectly by rescuing the nation's financial markets.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93MDD9O0&show_article=1

[theogt]

It's not combined. His proposal is taking the 300 billion out of the 700 billion that was already passed.

WASHINGTON (AP) - John McCain's proposal to buy up bad home mortgages would use nearly half the $700 billion from the recent Wall Street bailout package to assist Americans directly, instead of indirectly by rescuing the nation's financial markets.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93MDD9O0&show_article=1If that's the case, it's kinda silly, because there's already authority within the bill to do adjust the terms of mortgages underlying the mortgage related securities bought under the program.

[Vintage]

Commie Pinkos are running around unfettered.

I think we need to get Sarah back to alaska to see if Putin is looking over and dropping commie pinkos into our country while she is away.

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-sarah-palin-family-russia-background.jpg

[ScipioCowboy]

How much do I want to wager that you don't complain about the military, fire department, police departments, highway construction stuff, etc.

All of which involve public funding. All of which involve the gov't. All of which are Socialistic, according to you.

You are a pinko Commie too.

Unquestionably, the military, fire departments, police departments, and highway construction crews do represent government involvement on some level, which is necessary to maintain society. However, with the notable exception of the military, all other items on your list are generally funded at the state and local levels.

With the bailout package and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debacles, we're witnessing the blatant nationalization of the free market. Consequently, in my opinion, government involvement has reached an excessive and crass degree, and I'm seeking a candidate who will reduce the amount of socialism (such as Ron Paul) rather than increase it (such as either person currently running).

That was my only point. But please, feel free to post where I called anybody a "pinko commie."

[theogt]

Re: fire, police, highway spending.

Everyone google "public good." In no way whatsoever is that "pinko commie."

[Vintage]

Re: fire, police, highway spending.

Everyone google "public good." In no way whatsoever is that "pinko commie."


I used his definition.

[ScipioCowboy]

I used his definition.

Really?

Where, pray tell, did I ever define the military, highway departments, fire departments, and police departments as "commie pinko" endeavors?
:laugh2:

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-sarah-palin-family-russia-background.jpg

I think this is the best one, always makes me laugh.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/2895611277/

[Vintage]

Really?

Where, pray tell, did I ever define the military, highway departments, fire departments, and police departments as "commie pinko" endeavors?
:laugh2:

OK.

Start from scratch, apparently...

You said this:


As soon as you involve the government, you have socialism on some scale.


Then I said whatever I said.... all of which involve the gov't, therefore, are socialistic type things (according to your definition).




As for the pinko commie.... I called you that. Never did I say you called anyone that.

So why do you need to provide a link? You provide me a link where I said you called someone a commie.

(And that takes care of that).




I seem to be forgetting something....

[ScipioCowboy]

OK.

Start from scratch, apparently...

You said this:



Then I said whatever I said.... all of which involve the gov't, therefore, are socialistic type things (according to your definition).




As for the pinko commie.... I called you that. Never did I say you called anyone that.

So why do you need to provide a link? You provide me a link where I said you called someone a commie.

(And that takes care of that).




I seem to be forgetting something....

Not quite.

Theo said:
Re: fire, police, highway spending.

Everyone google "public good." In no way whatsoever is that "pinko commie."

To which, you replied:
I used his definition.

What definition are your referring to? I never defined or even used the terms commie, pinko, or communist.

I did, however, use the term socialism, and I listed the specific applications in which I found socialism troubling: nationalization of markets, socialized health care, and wealth redistribution.

Socialism and communism are not necessarily the same: Although all communist governments involve socialism, not all socialist governments involve communism.

[Vintage]

The pinko commie comment had nothing to do with the socialism reference made by me. Two. Separate. Things.

I called you a pinko commie because I can - and I did.

[ScipioCowboy]

The pinko commie comment had nothing to do with the socialism reference made by me. Two. Separate. Things.

Then explain this post:

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2318786&postcount=23

Once again, I ask you, "what definition?"

I called you a pinko commie because I can - and I did.You're more than welcome to call me anything you want, provided it does not violate forum guidelines.

However, insinuating that "commie pinko" was somehow part of my definition is erroneous.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Then explain this post:

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2318786&postcount=23

Once again, I ask you, "what definition?"

You're more than welcome to call me anything you want, provided it does not violate forum guidelines.

However, insinuating that "commie pinko" was somehow part of my definition is erroneous.

I think sometimes you lead to learn to take a joke as a joke.

We, vintage and I, have been having fun with the whole commie pinko thing today.

Or...maybe he really thinks you or others are commie pinkos...somehow I doubt it and he is just using it in a joking fashion.

Or to use a phrase you have learned recently...Lighten up Francis. ;)

[ScipioCowboy]

I think sometimes you lead to learn to take a joke as a joke.

We, vintage and I, have been having fun with the whole commie pinko thing today.

Or...maybe he really thinks you or others are commie pinkos...somehow I doubt it and he is just using it in a joking fashion.

Or to use a phrase you have learned recently...Lighten up Francis. ;)

Or, maybe you need to learn to let others play along as well?;)

In all honesty, I just assumed he was still a trifle inebriated from last night.

[trickblue]

Or, maybe you need to learn to let others play along as well?;)

Spoken like a true Commie Pinko... ;)