South Florida Jewish vote and Palin

[BrAinPaiNt]

Not sure what a legit title should be so I condensed it for this thread.

LINK (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/06/florida/print.html)

Oct. 06, 2008 | The local retirement community known as Century Village is just one outpost in a statewide network of Century Villages, Florida's largest chain of retirement complexes. It is also a time capsule of the New York Jewish gestalt, circa 1965, transplanted intact to the golf greens of Palm Beach County. If a small, unscientific sampling of the shoppers in the Hamptons Plaza mall, directly across from the complex, is any indication, John McCain's choice of running mates may have pushed the residents of this heavily Democratic enclave back in Barack Obama's direction.

"I was leaning towards McCain," growled Marvin Weinstein, 74, as he strode to an appointment in a doctor's office. "But I think his choice of her has turned me off."

"What I hear is she's an awful anti-Semite," George Friedberg said as he sat curbside in his Escalade. "She won't be getting my vote." Friedberg's wife, Florence, appeared at the passenger-side door, shopping bags in hand. "I was leaning towards McCain, but after he selected her I've ruled him out completely. I find her offensive."

Just a month ago, Florida was not considered top of the list among likely electoral vote pickups for Barack Obama. Since the spring McCain had held a consistent lead in the state, which dovetailed with rumors that many of South Florida's Jews, a major building block of the state's Democratic coalition, were wary of a black candidate with a Muslim middle name.

But that was before Wall Street's meltdown -- and before the full import of the Palin pick began to sink in. A poll from Quinnipiac University put Obama ahead of McCain in Florida by a substantive 51 to 43 percent as of Sept. 29, and cited "Gov. Sarah Palin's sagging favorability," among other things, as an influence.

Only about 5 percent of Florida's voters are Jewish, according to exit polls from the 2004 election. But this is a swing state with 27 electoral votes and elections here are often decided by slim margins. "You never, ever take a vote for granted in Florida," notes Democratic pollster Thomas Eldon, of Schroth & Eldon Associates. "All the votes here count, even if we don't count all the votes." George Bush owed his victory in Florida in 2000, and the presidency, in large part to the difficulty that the elderly Jewish voters of Palm Beach County had with a butterfly ballot.

In 2000, one of Democratic presidential nominee Al Gore's prime electoral-vote targets was Florida, and his running mate was an Orthodox Jew. Would-be veep Joe Lieberman made repeated trips throughout the campaign to South Florida to deliver the base. It worked: George Bush received only 12 percent of Florida's Jewish vote. Four years later, Bush improved his total, taking 20 percent, and winning the state by 5 points.

In 2008, Joe Lieberman is back, but this time to make his case for the Republican candidate. Lieberman, now an independent, was reportedly McCain's personal choice for vice president, before party pressure forced him to look elsewhere. Lieberman cut a swath through South Florida this summer on behalf of McCain, an old friend and fellow Iraq hawk. Lieberman toured a synagogue, a cafe and a Jewish community center, in Broward and Miami-Dade counties in late July, then returned in early August, a trip notable because his campaign bus hit another vehicle. He is scheduled to return to Boca Raton Monday to conduct a town hall at the local Chabad center.

This year the Republicans thought they had an opening to exploit, a poor fit between the Democrats of South Florida and their party's presidential nominee. Much of the party leadership had been aligned with Hillary Clinton; Clinton also beat Obama by 17 points in the state's controversial Jan. 29 Democratic primary. Then there was Obama's race, his middle name, rumors about his religion, and doubts about his support for Israel.

Polls seemed to confirm Obama's relative weakness. Clinton outperformed him by 5 points relative to McCain among Jewish voters nationally, according to Gallup. Obama was still winning a majority of the Jewish vote, but at around 60 percent he was lagging behind John Kerry's 2004 numbers.

The numbers weren't as bad as they seemed, but word that older Jewish voters were resisting Obama persisted through the primaries and into the fall. There were the disaffected Hillary supporters, and some who, in common with other older white voters across the country, couldn't get past Obama's race. "I play mah-jongg with someone who said, 'I would never vote for a black man.' And that just made me so angry," Obama supporter Bertha Griffith huffed outside the Hampton Plaza.

Others focused on Obama's supposed ties to Islam. "I think it has affected some people, unfortunately," says Marcy Selko, a committed Democrat and 69-year-old retired librarian who lives in Palm Beach County. "I've heard some people say, 'How could we have a president whose name is Hussein?' They said this even though they were Democrats!"

The Florida GOP jumped to exploit Obama's name and his light legislative record on Israel. "When you look at the whole picture, you realize Obama is not a friend of Israel," says Sid Dinerstein, chairman of Palm Beach County's Republican Party, who is Jewish. "It is very important for the Jewish community of Palm Beach County to make an informed decision."

Dinerstein is happy to provide information. Within a day of talking with Salon, Dinerstein forwarded nearly a dozen articles and opinion pieces from the Jerusalem Post, the Washington Times and a wide variety of other publications critical of Obama's commitment to a safe and secure Israel. One of the broadsides was an anonymously authored document titled "Obama and the Jews: Truth Checklist," and pointed out Obama's association with the Rev. Wright, and by extension Louis Farrakhan.

Then there are the anti-Obama Internet smear campaigns, not officially affiliated with any campaign, which have also reached South Florida. These accuse Obama of being a closet Muslim whose campaign is funded by Hamas. One of the most insidious is a fake Maureen Dowd article titled "Obama's Troubling Internet Fundraising." Dated June 29, 2008, the Times columnist purports to assert that a series of big money donations were made to Obama from Saudi Arabia, Iran and China. In fact Dowd wrote no such piece (she didn't even publish on June 29). "Ms. Dowd did not write the column," a Times spokeswoman states flatly. A copy of the e-mail was supplied to Salon by state Rep. Dan Gelber of Miami Beach, Democratic leader of the state house and a Florida superdelegate, who had received it from an alarmed friend.

"It's just made-up stuff, it's so silly," says Gelber, who is Jewish. "But it's like getting an e-mail about your child, even though you know it's not true or from a source you don't believe, you feel obligated to read it. And that's how these people feel about Israel, it's like their child."

In this environment, the Obama campaign made its bid for the Jewish voters of South Florida by selecting one of the region's most prominent Jewish Democrats, Rep. Robert Wexler, to co-chair the state campaign. (Rep. Kathy Castor from Tampa is the other chair.) Six-term incumbent Wexler's seat in Florida's 19th Congressional District, centered in Palm Beach County, is so safe that he has run unopposed three times. An Orthodox Jew and self-described "Fire Breathing Liberal," Wexler counterintuitively endorsed Obama right out of the gate, against the grain of the state Democratic leadership.

Wexler thinks the GOP has underestimated South Florida's Jews. "There's this misnomer among some in the press that the Jewish community is a one-issue community. It isn't," he says one summer afternoon following a talk at a Democratic Club in West Palm Beach. When his constituents learn "that John McCain supports privatizing Social Security" and "wants to appoint justices who will overturn Roe v. Wade," he says, "I assure you they will have nothing to do with John McCain." But Wexler also says his support for Obama is based on the fact that he's such a strong supporter of Israel, and because Obama recognizes that Iran is the greatest threat to Israeli and American security.

And that was all before Palin hit the stage. Her selection was a calculated risk by the Republicans, who badly needed to shore up support among the Christian right in battleground states like Florida. But it carried a special risk in Florida, one of the swing states with a significant Jewish population. "Kissing the Jewish vote goodbye," headlined England's Guardian newspaper after McCain announced his running mate. "Small Town Palin Big Problem for Jews," New York Jewish Week warned.

Wexler, known for his bombast, immediately declared the Alaska governor "a direct affront to the Jewish community."

"She was obviously selected to galvanize the conservative base, and she's done that," Gelber notes. "But for people with other issues, well, elderly Jewish voters are really not comfortable with that level of religious conservatism. They're generally pro-choice, don't believe creationism should be taught in schools, and they support stem cell research."

Among those Salon spoke to at the Hamptons Plaza mall -- outside the Bagel Tree Diner, the Boca Kosher market, and the Beltone Hearing Center -- "she stinks" was a common refrain. Palin's anti-choice stance chafed the retirees, as did her fundamentalist Christianity. No one mentioned having seen a videotape of the blessing she received in the Wasilla Assembly of God church prior to her run for governor, in which the pastor who blessed her against "witchcraft" also noted in passing that "the Israelites" run the nation's economy.

Now it's the Democrats who see an opportunity in South Florida. The Jewish Council for Education and Research, which endorsed Obama, is trying to capitalize on McCain's stalled momentum by sponsoring "the Great Schlep," which "focuses on encouraging young Jews to visit their grandparents in Florida during the Columbus Day Weekend" and convince them to vote for Obama. As an added incentive to Bubbe and Zayde, the JCER provides pledges for the grandkids to sign promising to call more often during an Obama administration.

-- By Tristram Korten

[Bach]

"I was leaning towards McCain," growled Marvin Weinstein, 74, as he strode to an appointment in a doctor's office. "But I think his choice of her has turned me off."

"What I hear is she's an awful anti-Semite," George Friedberg said as he sat curbside in his Escalade. "She won't be getting my vote." Friedberg's wife, Florence, appeared at the passenger-side door, shopping bags in hand. "I was leaning towards McCain, but after he selected her I've ruled him out completely. I find her offensive."


These people really are retards. Same folks who can't even punch out a ballot properly.

[canters]

That was funny!

[BrAinPaiNt]

If you say so Bach...I am not touching what you said, heck I am not even going to quote it.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Palin does nothing but talk about how great the state of Israel is, how can anyone say she's an anti-semite? If anything, she is too pro semitic

[adamc91115]

Palin does nothing but talk about how great the state of Israel is, how can anyone say she's an anti-semite? If anything, she is too pro semitic

I was actually wondering the same thing...

"We will not second guess Israel"... Does that ring a bell you old farts?

Sorry, ignorance annoys me.

[MilesAustinforMVP]

These people really are retards. Same folks who can't even punch out a ballot properly.

I don't think you should be calling anyone retarded considering how often you and other conservatives call our next president a terrorist. It's actually kind of unpatriotic.

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't think you should be calling anyone retarded considering how often you and other conservatives call our next president a terrorist. It's actually kind of unpatriotic.

Liar.

No one called him a terrorist. Find a post where someone did or shut up.

On top of that, the ignorance of the people in that story is astounding.

[Bach]

I don't think you should be calling anyone retarded considering how often you and other conservatives call our next president a terrorist. It's actually kind of unpatriotic.

I've never called McCain a terrorist.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Liar.

No one called him a terrorist. Find a post where someone did or shut up.

On top of that, the ignorance of the people in that story is astounding.

I don't recall anyone in here calling him a terrorists...but I have seen plenty of McCain supporters/voters calling him a terrorist.

[zrinkill]

I don't recall anyone in here calling him a terrorists...but I have seen plenty of McCain supporters/voters calling him a terrorist.

You mean like the Obama supporters that Accuse McCain of not really being tortured and making up his POW stories?

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't recall anyone in here calling him a terrorists...but I have seen plenty of McCain supporters/voters calling him a terrorist.

Honestly, I have not seen one person ANYWHERE call him a terrorist. Not one. I would love to see a legit news article that quoted someone who said that.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You mean like the Obama supporters that Accuse McCain of not really being tortured and making up his POW stories?

No I said what I meant...they said Obama was a terrorist.

It seems to be the ultimate goal of what their campaign hopes to achieve.

[Cajuncowboy]

No I said what I meant...they said Obama was a terrorist.

It seems to be the ultimate goal of what their campaign hopes to achieve.

Again, please provide a quote from someone connected to the McCain campaign who said obama was a terrorist.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Honestly, I have not seen one person ANYWHERE call him a terrorist. Not one. I would love to see a legit news article that quoted someone who said that.

Don't need a news source...I will give you video(s).


Video 1 (http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3932027)

Video 2 (http://www.crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/palin-mccain-mob)

[Cajuncowboy]

Don't need a news source...I will give you video(s).


Video 1 (http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3932027)

Video 2 (http://www.crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/palin-mccain-mob)

Once again, I say, show me ONE person connected to the McCain Campaign who says he's a terrorist.

Posting a video of idiots saying something who has no connection whatsoever to the campaign is nothing.

People believe what they want and can say what they want. That doesn't give them credibility.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Once again, I say, show me ONE person connected to the McCain Campaign who says he's a terrorist.

Posting a video of idiots saying something who has no connection whatsoever to the campaign is nothing.

People believe what they want and can say what they want. That doesn't give them credibility.

I said supporters/voters...I never said someone on his campaign.

Futhermore your exact quote originally said...

Honestly, I have not seen one person ANYWHERE call him a terrorist. Not one. I would love to see a legit news article that quoted someone who said that.

Later you changed it to someone connected to him or his campaign...I never said that.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

You mean like the Obama supporters that Accuse McCain of not really being tortured and making up his POW stories?

no it's more like saying he was a rat who who saved his hide in North Vietnam by being a stoolie ;)

there is just something about McCain I find creepy, maybe it's his Dolesque dangling arm, his jowls, not sure.

[BrAinPaiNt]

no it's more like saying he was a rat who who saved his hide in North Vietnam by being a stoolie ;)

there is just something about McCain I find creepy, maybe it's his Dolesque dangling arm, his jowls, not sure.

Whatever it is I suggest you tread very lightly. Cause That stuff is not gonna fly.

[Cajuncowboy]

I said supporters/voters...I never said someone on his campaign.

Futhermore your exact quote originally said...



Later you changed it to someone connected to him or his campaign...I never said that.

I thought that was what was being referred to.

I know there are idiots out there.

[zrinkill]

no it's more like saying he was a rat who who saved his hide in North Vietnam by being a stoolie ;)

there is just something about McCain I find creepy, maybe it's his Dolesque dangling arm, his jowls, not sure.

You never disappoint.

:rolleyes:

[Cajuncowboy]

no it's more like saying he was a rat who who saved his hide in North Vietnam by being a stoolie ;)

there is just something about McCain I find creepy, maybe it's his Dolesque dangling arm, his jowls, not sure.

I know you are not an American but the disrespect for someone who sacrificed for this country, a country that is way better than any other by the way, should at least be respected.

That's low even for someone from Canada.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I thought that was what was being referred to.

I know there are idiots out there.

No...I wanted to be very clear about it that is why I worded it that way. Did not want to try and deceive with it.

And we all know there are those type of people out there however they have been guided somewhat in that direction (either it be the campaign itself, 527's push polls, email groups or other groups). When it goes out that he is a muslim, that he has ties to terrorists, using his middle name and acting like it is all innocent...that is the direction they are guiding into.

It is sleazy politics no matter how you cut it...not that Obama's camp or supporters/voters are not sleazy and doing things as well.

Just showing the videos of how some of his voting base see Obama.

Also on a side note, and I wish I had a video of it but have not seen one, and I don't remember where I saw these reports. I can not verify if these are true but...

During one of the McCain/Palin speaking rallies they were talking about Obama and someone yelled out "TRAITOR" "KILL HIM" and neither McCain nor Palin shouted it down or scolded the audience member.

In another Speaking rally they was a camera crew from some left liberal group there recording it. One of the Camera men was a black man. Someone in the audience yelled out a racial slur and then told the man to sit down Boy or sit down Son in a menacing manner. Now I don't know if that member was removed or not.


Now...I know if I was up there giving a speech, and I would go so far as say if you was up there giving a speech...and I heard and audience member say something like those guys did...I would take him to task on the spot and ask security to remove him.

[Cajuncowboy]

No...I wanted to be very clear about it that is why I worded it that way. Did not want to try and deceive with it.

And we all know there are those type of people out there however they have been guided somewhat in that direction (either it be the campaign itself, 527's push polls, email groups or other groups). When it goes out that he is a muslim, that he has ties to terrorists, using his middle name and acting like it is all innocent...that is the direction they are guiding into.

It is sleazy politics no matter how you cut it...not that Obama's camp or supporters/voters are not sleazy and doing things as well.

Just showing the videos of how some of his voting base see Obama.

Also on a side note, and I wish I had a video of it but have not seen one, and I don't remember where I saw these reports. I can not verify if these are true but...

During one of the McCain/Palin speaking rallies they were talking about Obama and someone yelled out "TRAITOR" "KILL HIM" and neither McCain nor Palin shouted it down or scolded the audience member.

In another Speaking rally they was a camera crew from some left liberal group there recording it. One of the Camera men was a black man. Someone in the audience yelled out a racial slur and then told the man to sit down Boy or sit down Son in a menacing manner. Now I don't know if that member was removed or not.


Now...I know if I was up there giving a speech, and I would go so far as say if you was up there giving a speech...and I heard and audience member say something like those guys did...I would take him to task on the spot and ask security to remove him.

And some of Obamas supporters see McCain as a traitor as evidenced by Canadian's posts. That doesn't mean Obama believes that or condones that. I chalk that up to stupidity.

As for the Muslim thing, again, I don't remember one person from the Campaign saying he was muslim. With that said, if you are upset about his middle name, blame his mother. She was the one that stuck that handle on him.

And if obama is ashamed of it, then he should have it legally changed.

And his ties to terrorists, well, they are not in doubt. He has admitted them. Not saying HE is one, but that he has ties to them. That's on him. And Americans have the right to know about them.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I know you are not an American but the disrespect for someone who sacrificed for this country, a country that is way better than any other by the way, should at least be respected.

That's low even for someone from Canada.

it's your opinion the US way better than any other. you would likely get an argument from a Russian, Frenchman, Englishman etc on that point.

[BigWillie]

Well I would guess alot of the anti-Semitic ideas have alot to do with the fact she was said to once be a supporter of Pat Buchanan. It also has alot to do with she just recently sat thru a anti-Semitic rant in her own church ..

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

An illustration of that gap came just two weeks ago, when Palin’s church, the Wasilla Bible Church, gave its pulpit over to a figure viewed with deep hostility by many Jewish organizations: David Brickner, the executive director of Jews for .

Palin’s pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner on Aug. 17, according to a transcript of the sermon on the church’s website.

“He’s a leader of Jews for , a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing, demanding area of witnessing and evangelism,” Kroon said.

Brickner then explained that and his disciples were themselves Jewish.

“The Jewish community, in particular, has a difficult time understanding this reality,” he said.

Brickner’s mission has drawn wide criticism from the organized Jewish community, and the Anti-Defamation League accused them in a report of “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.

That is a big thing that goes really un-reported. This speech was even said in mid-August. Then she will get on the stump and criticize Obama for not leaving a church that said unbelievable things, but she directly sits in church during an anti-Semitic sermon and will not do the same thing.

Another church member was asked about Brickner's thoughts and they said thoughts like these were "not controversial among church members".

Now before someone goes crazy thinking I am saying Palin is anti-Semitic, that is not what I am saying at all. But it does raise questions about her beliefs when she challenges Obama for sitting through controversial things said at church.

The article details a bit why Jews are not fond of Palin. Very informative.

[Cajuncowboy]

it's your opinion the US way better than any other. you would likely get an argument from a Russian, Frenchman, Englishman etc on that point.

And they would be wrong.

[Cajuncowboy]

Well I would guess alot of the anti-Semitic ideas have alot to do with the fact she was said to once be a supporter of Pat Buchanan. It also has alot to do with she just recently sat thru a anti-Semitic rant in her own church ..

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

An illustration of that gap came just two weeks ago, when Palin’s church, the Wasilla Bible Church, gave its pulpit over to a figure viewed with deep hostility by many Jewish organizations: David Brickner, the executive director of Jews for .

Palin’s pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner on Aug. 17, according to a transcript of the sermon on the church’s website.

“He’s a leader of Jews for , a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing, demanding area of witnessing and evangelism,” Kroon said.

Brickner then explained that and his disciples were themselves Jewish.

“The Jewish community, in particular, has a difficult time understanding this reality,” he said.

Brickner’s mission has drawn wide criticism from the organized Jewish community, and the Anti-Defamation League accused them in a report of “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.

That is a big thing that goes really un-reported. This speech was even said in mid-August. Then she will get on the stump and criticize Obama for not leaving a church that said unbelievable things, but she directly sits in church during an anti-Semitic sermon and will not do the same thing.

Another church member was asked about Brickner's thoughts and they said thoughts like these were "not controversial among church members".

Now before someone goes crazy thinking I am saying Palin is anti-Semitic, that is not what I am saying at all. But it does raise questions about her beliefs when she challenges Obama for sitting through controversial things said at church.

The article details a bit why Jews are not fond of Palin. Very informative.

Please show me something in there that is anti Semitic.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Please show me something in there that is anti Semitic.

You need to start reading better.

He did not claim that she was anti-semitic, did not claim she said something anti-semitic and even the author of the peace does not say she is anti-semitic or say she said anti-semitic claims.

The poster was only giving a report of why some jews might get that impression.

:cool:

[Cajuncowboy]

You need to start reading better.

He did not claim that she was anti-semitic, did not claim she said something anti-semitic and even the author of the peace does not say she is anti-semitic or say she said anti-semitic claims.

The poster was only giving a report of why some jews might get that impression.

:cool:

I know that. But show me something in the so called anti-Semitic sermon that qualifies as anti-Semitic.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I know that. But show me something in the so called anti-Semitic sermon that qualifies as anti-Semitic.

It is guilt by association because this guy has had a questionable background concerning the jewish and I don't know too many jews who would be happy with a christian basically saying they should convert (remember the outrage of Ann's comments).

[Cajuncowboy]

It is guilt by association because this guy has had a questionable background concerning the jewish and I don't know too many jews who would be happy with a christian basically saying they should convert (remember the outrage of Ann's comments).

Well, once again, show me where this "questionable background" is. Honestly, in order to make the entire leap to this conclusion you would have to say the Bible is anti-Semitic and every Christian who believes the Bible is as well.

So again, I challenge someone to show me something that is anti-Semitic in that sermon. I'll save you the time. There is nothing there.

It's a lie. Unlike the associations of Obama who he has admitted to being friends with people like Ayers, Wight and others.

[Cajuncowboy]

BTW, if you want to look into backgrounds, do a little research on this pic.


http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/barackobamaedwardsaid.jpg

[adamc91115]

BTW, if you want to look into backgrounds, do a little research on this pic.


http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/barackobamaedwardsaid.jpg

I give up... Explain?

[Bach]

I give up... Explain?

Well, one of them is a friend of a terrorist. I know that much. ;)

[Cajuncowboy]

I give up... Explain?

The guy Obama and his wife are sitting with is Edward Said.

He is dead now but he was a close adviser to Arrafat and the PLO. This picture was taken in 1998 I think at a pro Arab fund raising event. The big question I have is why is Obama, a relatively unknown community organizer sitting at the same table at a fund raiser with one of Arafat's top advisers?

BTW, he also left the PLO and Arafat because he thought Arafat was "to moderate".

[BigWillie]

I know that. But show me something in the so called anti-Semitic sermon that qualifies as anti-Semitic.

Are you serious? He's talking about Palestinians plowing through houses because of the Jews unbelief. He called terrorists attacks on Jews as signs of their "unbelief".

Can you imagine if he called the terrorist attacks during 9/11 as signs of Americas "unbelief".

C'mon man. Be serious.

[Cajuncowboy]

Are you serious? He's talking about Palestinians plowing through houses because of the Jews unbelief. He called terrorists attacks on Jews as signs of their "unbelief".

Can you imagine if he called the terrorist attacks during 9/11 as signs of Americas "unbelief".

C'mon man. Be serious.

What he is talking about is "Judgment" which is a biblical position. The Jews called the judgment down "on their head and their children's heads."

Unless you understand the biblical perspective, you need to stop calling names until you are better informed.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

And they would be wrong.

and they would tell you that you are wrong

[Cajuncowboy]

and they would tell you that you are wrong

They'd be wrong about that.

[burmafrd]

Canadian is well kn own as one of those that hate the US so why would anyone take anything he says about us seriously? Just ignore him.

[BigWillie]

What he is talking about is "Judgment" which is a biblical position. The Jews called the judgment down "on their head and their children's heads."

Unless you understand the biblical perspective, you need to stop calling names until you are better informed.

Dude, he said the Jews were attacked because they did not embrace Christianity. He is directly saying their non-belief in his religion is the reason they were attacked.

Did you even read the thing?

[Cajuncowboy]

Dude, he said the Jews were attacked because they did not embrace Christianity. He is directly saying their non-belief in his religion is the reason they were attacked.

Did you even read the thing?

Yes, I did. I understand completely. He is referring to a passage in the Bible where the Jews called judgment down on themselves for rejecting before Pilate.

As I said, you better understand what you are talking about before you go off on some tirade that is going to get your head handed to you.

I'm serious. You don't know what you are talking about.

[ZeroClub]

If you pick a VP to appeal to your own base, don't start crying when that VP doesn't appeal to the larger electorate.

[Cajuncowboy]

If you pick a VP to appeal to your own base, don't start crying when that VP doesn't appeal to the larger electorate.

Who's crying??? The people who are complaining about this so-called anti semitic sermon don't know what they are talking about.

[BigWillie]

Yes, I did. I understand completely. He is referring to a passage in the Bible where the Jews called judgment down on themselves for rejecting before Pilate.

As I said, you better understand what you are talking about before you go off on some tirade that is going to get your head handed to you.

I'm serious. You don't know what you are talking about.

Dude, you are a piece of work to believe that.

Brickner is a known anti-Semitic speaker. He is known and disliked by the Jewish community and the Anti-Defamation League said Brickner's mission was “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”

Refer to this to see what the Jewish community thinks of "Jews for " ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_ #Jewish_opposition

I know you'll say Wikipedia isn't a source. But click on the citations for links to the articles in which Jewish leaders condemn Brickner.

The ADL even had an article about this "sermon" he had in Palin's church ..

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/jews4 /jews4 .asp

Jews for , the leading organization dedicated to converting Jews to Christianity, has long been a concern because of its aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish. The group produces videos, publishes four periodicals, maintains 22 offices around the world at which it employs about 200 people, and sells products through an extensive online bookstore. It sees its primary work however, as preaching to Jews in the streets, with the aid of a network of 175 volunteers. The group claims in 2007 it converted 591 Jews and handed out 3,627,000 pamphlets describing the group's beliefs.

You SERIOUSLY need to do some background on Brickner and the Jewish sentiment on his organization.

Brickner himself did not even defend his remarks in the fashion you have. He simply said he was "misunderstood".

Even the pastor did not defend him and even stated the press should not attribute Brickner's views to Palin. If he was quoting passages from the bible, do you not believe the witch hunter would kindly point that out?

[Cajuncowboy]

Dude, you are a piece of work to believe that.

Brickner is a known anti-Semitic speaker. He is known and disliked by the Jewish community and the Anti-Defamation League said Brickner's mission was “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”

Refer to this to see what the Jewish community thinks of "Jews for " ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_ #Jewish_opposition

I know you'll say Wikipedia isn't a source. But click on the citations for links to the articles in which Jewish leaders condemn Brickner.

The ADL even had an article about this "sermon" he had in Palin's church ..

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/jews4 /jews4 .asp

Jews for , the leading organization dedicated to converting Jews to Christianity, has long been a concern because of its aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish. The group produces videos, publishes four periodicals, maintains 22 offices around the world at which it employs about 200 people, and sells products through an extensive online bookstore. It sees its primary work however, as preaching to Jews in the streets, with the aid of a network of 175 volunteers. The group claims in 2007 it converted 591 Jews and handed out 3,627,000 pamphlets describing the group's beliefs.

You SERIOUSLY need to do some background on Brickner and the Jewish sentiment on his organization.

Brickner himself did not even defend his remarks in the fashion you have. He simply said he was "misunderstood".

Even the pastor did not defend him and even stated the press should not attribute Brickner's views to Palin. If he was quoting passages from the bible, do you not believe the witch hunter would kindly point that out?

No, you are a piece of work for rattling off what you don't understand, or what you THINK you understand.

Here's a lesson for you....

The reason the "Jewish" establishment doesn't like Jews for is because they are Jews. They look at them as "Leaving" the faith and of blasphemy. The mission of Jews for is no different than that of any other Christian and that is to make them aware of 's saving grace.

That is the job of EVERY Christian. The Apostle Paul was a Jew for . As was the other Apostles. Were they anti-Semites? Jews for does nothing in a threatening way. They do not use force on anyone. Yes they proselytize but all Christians should. So to make a big deal of this is beyond dumb.

As for the Judgment thing...

Mat 27:25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

When the Jews said this they brought the curse upon them with their own words.

Spiritual law doesn't stop with time. It stays constant throughout the generations. What they did was condemn their own lineage with this act of betrayal.

Being anti-Semite would mean you wanted the Jews dead or wiped out. That is like Amedidajad in Iran. Or Hitler.

Not people who have a genuine love for the Jews and want what's best for them. And oh by the way, one more time...Jews for , are Jews. So your whole point is silly.

[Maikeru-sama]

Ah Cajun in another thread telling somebody they don't understand something and then goes about helping them understand :rolleyes: .

[Cajuncowboy]

Ah Cajun in another thread telling somebody they don't understand something and then goes about helping them understand :rolleyes: .

ah, makymomo rolling his eyes again.

Keep your head stuck in the sand or whatever dark hole it's stuck in. It does wonders for you.

[BigWillie]

No, you are a piece of work for rattling off what you don't understand, or what you THINK you understand.

Here's a lesson for you....

The reason the "Jewish" establishment doesn't like Jews for is because they are Jews. They look at them as "Leaving" the faith and of blasphemy. The mission of Jews for is no different than that of any other Christian and that is to make them aware of 's saving grace.

That is the job of EVERY Christian. The Apostle Paul was a Jew for . As was the other Apostles. Were they anti-Semites? Jews for does nothing in a threatening way. They do not use force on anyone. Yes they proselytize but all Christians should. So to make a big deal of this is beyond dumb.

As for the Judgment thing...

Mat 27:25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

When the Jews said this they brought the curse upon them with their own words.

Spiritual law doesn't stop with time. It stays constant throughout the generations. What they did was condemn their own lineage with this act of betrayal.

Being anti-Semite would mean you wanted the Jews dead or wiped out. That is like Amedidajad in Iran. Or Hitler.

Not people who have a genuine love for the Jews and want what's best for them. And oh by the way, one more time...Jews for , are Jews. So your whole point is silly.

Do you not understand what Antisemitism is? Antisemitism is not limited to wanting the extinction of the Jewish religion, but also the hatred and non-acceptance of them as a religion.

Here is a definition for you ..

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=antisemitism

Noun

(n) anti-Semitism, antisemitism (the intense dislike for and prejudice against Jewish people)

Here is another ..

http://www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html

Antisemitism: A durable and unique historic and contemporary form of prejudice or demonization appearing at various times based on perceptions of religion, ethnicity, and race. In the U.S., Christian supremacist notions created systems of oppression that kept Jews in a second-class status until after WWII. While institutionalized antisemitism as a form of oppression is no longer a major force, prejudice and demonization remain. Although Jews are actually a diverse ethnoreligious group, their biased critics often project on them a racial identity that has motivated intimidation and violence.

And tell the Jewish people your thoughts on this organization. They are the ones who have to endure this people and I would think they understand their religion better than most. Maybe that is just me thinking again though.

They do not like this group and consider them antisemitic, period.

You can ramble and proclaim how YOU think they are not antisemitic, but to the people who actually matter, they are.

[Cajuncowboy]

Do you not understand what Antisemitism is? Antisemitism is not limited to wanting the extinction of the Jewish religion, but also the hatred and non-acceptance of them as a religion.

Here is a definition for you ..

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=antisemitism

Noun

(n) anti-Semitism, antisemitism (the intense dislike for and prejudice against Jewish people)

Here is another ..

http://www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html

Antisemitism: A durable and unique historic and contemporary form of prejudice or demonization appearing at various times based on perceptions of religion, ethnicity, and race. In the U.S., Christian supremacist notions created systems of oppression that kept Jews in a second-class status until after WWII. While institutionalized antisemitism as a form of oppression is no longer a major force, prejudice and demonization remain. Although Jews are actually a diverse ethnoreligious group, their biased critics often project on them a racial identity that has motivated intimidation and violence.

And tell the Jewish people your thoughts on this organization. They are the ones who have to endure this people and I would think they understand their religion better than most. Maybe that is just me thinking again though.

They do not like this group and consider them antisemitic, period.

You can ramble and proclaim how YOU think they are not antisemitic, but to the people who actually matter, they are.

So I guess the fact that I am a Christian means I am anti-Semitic. But let's not stop there. I'm also not Catholic so I must be Anti-Catholic. And yet, I'm not a Methodist so therefore I MUST be anti Methodist.

The fact that they don't "like" the group doesn't make the group anti semitic. The Jewish leaders don't want to lose their believers, like any other religion. Duh!

But like the Pharasies of ' day, they label them "dangerous" or in todays vernacular, anti semitic.

Your position and if indeed that is their position, their's as well is laughable.

So according to you, Any Jew who converts to Christianity, and tells another Jew about it and how they too should find , they are anti-Semites? Is that what you are saying?

This should be good.

[BigWillie]

So I guess the fact that I am a Christian means I am anti-Semitic. But let's not stop there. I'm also not Catholic so I must be Anti-Catholic. And yet, I'm not a Methodist so therefore I MUST be anti Methodist.

The fact that they don't "like" the group doesn't make the group anti semitic. The Jewish leaders don't want to lose their believers, like any other religion. Duh!

But like the Pharasies of ' day, they label them "dangerous" or in todays vernacular, anti semitic.

Your position and if indeed that is their position, their's as well is laughable.

So according to you, Any Jew who converts to Christianity, and tells another Jew about it and how they too should find , they are anti-Semites? Is that what you are saying?

This should be good.

No, you would be anti-Semitic if you stated things like terrorists attacks on Jews were done for their non-belief in Christianity. You would be anti-Semitic for forcing your views on Jewish believers by telling them there way is wrong and yours is right.

Did you tell Catholics they have died because of their non-belief in Christianity? Did you tell that to Muslims? Hindu? Any other religion? If you did, you would be against them just as much as you would Jews.

Cajun, you like to ramble, but in reality, you say very little. You ever noticed that?

I'm glad you consider the Jews wrong in their position in their beliefs. That as well is anti-Semitic, FYI. Just as you have your beliefs, they have theirs. Who in the hell are you to tell them they are wrong? Are you Jewish? Do you understand their religion better than themselves? If not, then why are you trying to tell anyone else whether they are wrong or in their beliefs?

You try to preach Christianity, but in reality you do not understand as much as you say. If you did, you would not have the insane thought process you currently do.

But wait -- they are only saying they are antisemitic to keep people in their faith. How full of yourself are you?

[Cajuncowboy]

No, you would be anti-Semitic if you stated things like terrorists attacks on Jews were done for their non-belief in Christianity. You would be anti-Semitic for forcing your views on Jewish believers by telling them there way is wrong and yours is right.

Did you tell Catholics they have died because of their non-belief in Christianity? Did you tell that to Muslims? Hindu? Any other religion? If you did, you would be against them just as much as you would Jews.

Cajun, you like to ramble, but in reality, you say very little. You ever noticed that?

I'm glad you consider the Jews wrong in their position in their beliefs. That as well is anti-Semitic, FYI. Just as you have your beliefs, they have theirs. Who in the hell are you to tell them they are wrong? Are you Jewish? Do you understand their religion better than themselves? If not, then why are you trying to tell anyone else whether they are wrong or in their beliefs?

You try to preach Christianity, but in reality you do not understand as much as you say. If you did, you would not have the insane thought process you currently do.

But wait -- they are only saying they are antisemitic to keep people in their faith. How full of yourself are you?

you limited intelligence on this matter is frightening. Especially when you say Catholics aren't Christians. That says all anyone needs to know about what you know. The Jews or anyone else have the right to believe anyway they want. And they, or anyone else has the right to share the message of their faith. Obviously you can choose to accept or reject that message.

And who the hell are you to tell people they cannot share their faith with others?

Talk about being full of yourself.

Get educated on the subject then come back and talk about it.

[BigWillie]

you limited intelligence on this matter is frightening. Especially when you say Catholics aren't Christians. That says all anyone needs to know about what you know. The Jews or anyone else have the right to believe anyway they want. And they, or anyone else has the right to share the message of their faith. Obviously you can choose to accept or reject that message.

And who the hell are you to tell people they cannot share their faith with others?

Talk about being full of yourself.

Get educated on the subject then come back and talk about it.

Answer the simple question -- why did Brickner say that terrorists attacks on Israel were done for the non-belief in Christianity? Why did he not even defend his statement? Why did Palin's preacher not defend him and asked the media not to attribute Brickner's statements to her?

But wait, there was some higher meaning than what he said. Because you understand what he said better than he did. Just like you understand Jewish beliefs better than they understand themselves as well. :laugh2:

Christianity is fine being passed on to the next person. Never said a single thing was wrong with that. But to single open an organization that singles out Jews to pass on the word of Christianity and do it in the way these people have, saying the things these people have will qualify them as antisemitic. You have numerous Jewish organizations who share the belief, but you do not, because you know better than them what it is like to be persecuted I'm assuming. :rolleyes:

When Brickner opens up Hindus for , Muslims for and everything of the sort, you get back to me. Until then, I'm sure the Jews will share my sentiment and in the end, that is the vote your old man and little lady cannot get.

Stings, eh?

[ScipioCowboy]

You would be anti-Semitic for forcing your views on Jewish believers by telling them there way is wrong and yours is right.

I'm glad you consider the Jews wrong in their position in their beliefs. That as well is anti-Semitic,

In all your definitions for anti-Semitic, it seems the operative phrases are intense dislike for, intense prejudice against, and discrimination.

Disagreeing with someone or believing someone is wrong is hardly synonymous with discriminating against or even disliking that someone; otherwise, everyone who posts regularly on this board would be guilty of prejudice and discrimination.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

you limited intelligence on this matter is frightening. Especially when you say Catholics aren't Christians. That says all anyone needs to know about what you know. The Jews or anyone else have the right to believe anyway they want. And they, or anyone else has the right to share the message of their faith. Obviously you can choose to accept or reject that message.

And who the hell are you to tell people they cannot share their faith with others?

Talk about being full of yourself.

Get educated on the subject then come back and talk about it.

i thought real christians, the right wing fundamentalist ones never described catholics as Christians

[Cajuncowboy]

Answer the simple question -- why did Brickner say that terrorists attacks on Israel were done for the non-belief in Christianity? Why did he not even defend his statement? Why did Palin's preacher not defend him and asked the media not to attribute Brickner's statements to her?

But wait, there was some higher meaning than what he said. Because you understand what he said better than he did. Just like you understand Jewish beliefs better than they understand themselves as well. :laugh2:

Christianity is fine being passed on to the next person. Never said a single thing was wrong with that. But to single open an organization that singles out Jews to pass on the word of Christianity and do it in the way these people have, saying the things these people have will qualify them as antisemitic. You have numerous Jewish organizations who share the belief, but you do not, because you know better than them what it is like to be persecuted I'm assuming. :rolleyes:

When Brickner opens up Hindus for , Muslims for and everything of the sort, you get back to me. Until then, I'm sure the Jews will share my sentiment and in the end, that is the vote your old man and little lady cannot get.

Stings, eh?

Nothing from you stings in that you are freakin' clueless. Jews for Jeses are Jews. What part of that can't through your thick head? And when you say "The way these people do" Explain something that they have done that is illegal, or even immoral.

You are so far out in left field that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Once again for those who can't grasp the simple concept, what they are talking about is Biblical. Now you can accept it or not, but you can take that up with someone Higher than I. :rolleyes:

[Cajuncowboy]

i thought real christians, the right wing fundamentalist ones never described catholics as Christians

Christians don't say that. Once again, I would have to get into a theological diatribe that many on here would not understand to explain things to you. I won't waste my time because either way you really don't care.

[zrinkill]

Christians don't say that. Once again, I would have to get into a theological diatribe that many on here would not understand to explain things to you. I won't waste my time because either way you really don't care.

:bow: