McCain Lets the Dogs Off the Chain

[Wheat]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/10/mccain_lets_the_dogs_off_the_c.html?hpid=topnews

McCain Lets the Dogs Off the Chain
By Dan Balz
There is a scene early in "Dead Certain," Robert Draper's book about President Bush, when the Bush campaign, reeling from its loss to John McCain in New Hampshire in the 2000 primary, is plotting its moves for a do-or-die struggle in South Carolina.

As Bush's South Carolina team sketched out one tough step after another, Mark McKinnon, Bush's media adviser listened with amazement. Draper writes that McKinnon was thinking: "They're letting the dogs off the chain."

John McCain was the victim in that campaign eight years ago. Now, struggling to overcome Barack Obama's lead in the polls, he is unleashing attacks and empowering forces that lead him in the same direction.

Through television ads by his campaign and by the Republican National Committee, Obama is under attack for his association with William Ayers, the domestic terrorist of the 1960s. On the campaign trail, McCain's rallies have at times turned into angry rants by his supporters aimed at Obama and the Democrats. Frank Keating, the former governor of Oklahoma and a McCain surrogate went on television this week and played the race card, saying Obama should own up to the fact that he was once a "guy of the street" who used cocaine.

I wrote yesterday about the risks to both McCain and Obama -- and the country -- as they fire at one another in increasingly sharp terms. The danger is that the winner will come to office with a sizable portion of the population poisoned by the effects of the campaign.

But what's also clear is that McCain's tactics are over the line, with no restraint in sight, and threaten to provoke reactions among partisans on both sides that will continue to escalate.

The RNC's new ad attacks Obama for his questionable association with convicted developer Tony Rezko, for his ties to Ayers and, perhaps most inexplicably, for taking advice from William Daley, the brother of Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley. Bill Daley is described as heir to the Chicago machine. The ad does not mention the mayor.

This is the same Bill Daley who served as Commerce Secretary in the Clinton administration and who seemed to have a harmonious relationship with the then-chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, one John McCain.

Politico's Mike Allen reported Friday that in 1997, McCain was quoted in the Chicago Tribune praising Daley "for keeping his word to Congress and the American people to attempt to take politics out of the business of the Commerce Department's trade missions."

Daley's brother, the mayor, has had a similarly harmonious relationship with President Bush during Bush's years in the White House. The president has not treated him as the pariah leader of a corrupt machine.

McCain and the Republicans portray Ayers as Obama's political godfather. The relationship is more complicated. Their real connection is through educational foundations in Chicago, where Ayers has been described by Mayor Daley as a constructive adult citizen. Daley's view is that the '60s are over.

Obama's ties to Rezko were highly questionable. He has regretted many times that he got mixed up in a real estate deal with Rezko. It was a mistake and he continues to pay price for it.

Keating's comments were inexplicable, though the former governor has had a reputation for popping off. Whether he was freelancing or had been encouraged by the McCain campaign to raise Obama's drug use -- which the Illinois senator wrote about in his autobiography -- isn't known. Injecting this into the campaign now seems designed to add to the GOP portrait of Obama as a sinister figure who does not share the values of middle America.

Perhaps that is what McCain truly believes, although he has been more generous in his characterizations of most of his political opponents in the past. But with the country in an economic crisis as bad as anything since the Great Depression, the descent into angry negativity undermines the brand he worked so hard to establish.

McKinnon was part of McCain's team earlier this year -- and was at the Republican Convention helping out -- but he has essentially absented himself from the overall campaign. He said earlier that he admired Obama and did not want to be part of a campaign to tear him down. He must be relieved not to be directly involved with what has happened in the past two weeks -- and pained at what he sees.

I was in contact over the last 24 hours with another veteran of recent Republican presidential campaigns and asked, on a not-for-attribution basis, whether he believed McCain's campaign is taking a big risk with its negative turn. "Yes," this strategist replied. "Big mistake. If this stuff mattered, then why didn't they raise it five months ago. Sad."

[Sasquatch]

McCain's staking his presidential bid on the success of another surge. I personally think it's the wrong strategy but I suppose he has no other option at this point than to try to whip the rightwing into such a frenzy of hate that they come to the polls in droves.

John McCain 2008: honor, integrity, and valor. :rolleyes:

[REDVOLUTION]

McCain's staking his presidential bid on the success of another surge. I personally think it's the wrong strategy but I suppose he has no other option at this point than to try to whip the rightwing into such a frenzy of hate that they come to the polls in droves.

John McCain 2008: honor, integrity, and valor. :rolleyes:


I guess I just dont get it.

How is attacking someone's character bad?
How is attacking their decisions and judgments bad?

Considering that McCain is pretty much within the margin of error in even the most biased polls. I cant see how anyone could be thinking that "their guy is winning or won already"

Politics is a dirty business. Slinging is as popular and recommended in politics as it is in football.

[Sasquatch]

How is attacking someone's character bad?
How is attacking their decisions and judgments bad?

You should ask Senator McCain. He's the one that forswore such tactics at the beginning of the process and promised to conduct an "honorable" campaign about the issues and specific policies.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I guess I just dont get it.

How is attacking someone's character bad?
How is attacking their decisions and judgments bad?

Considering that McCain is pretty much within the margin of error in even the most biased polls. I cant see how anyone could be thinking that "their guy is winning or won already"

Politics is a dirty business. Slinging is as popular and recommended in politics as it is in football.

I think it falls back to John's own words and things that have been done to him in the past.

By that I mean he said it would not be a dirty or negative campaign. But when Obama and his campaign could not come up with a deal for Town Hall meetings the idea was cancelled and later John would honestly say that he did not want to go dirty or negative (do not remember the exact phrasing) but he was forced to do so because Obama would not do the town hall meetings. Now I don't know, maybe it is just me, but that seems a pretty lame excuse of why he was forced to do it.

In the past McCain would denounce anyone using Obama's Middle name, and lets not play dumb we know why it is being used by some. Heck even recently there was a allusion by a speaker at one of the rallies about Obamas ties and someone yelled terrorist and whether the person heard it or not the speaker said...well his middle name IS Hussien. So it is pretty clear why people are using it in the fashion they are using it and it is not just to say his full name no matter how many on here act like it is. As my buddy Scipio likes to say to me...Intellectual honesty. But either way Mccain has denounced doing that.

However it is starting to pop up more and more at these rallies by people introducing McCain and or Palin. Now I have heard that McCain has denounced it afterwards in the press but I also have to believe they really don't mind it because I would imagine they would make it clear in no uncertain terms to the people doing the introductions NOT to say that or they are going to get in trouble...chances are these guys would not say it. That is just my opinion.

Now also in the past John has said he will not go into the Ayers connections. I think he has said it more than once.

However he is now switching gears and it seems like he is going to go with it now. I think he is only switching to it now because he must feel his campaign and chances are in trouble. He has been opposed to it all along but now just changes his mind.

Another thing. When some of his voters/supporters in the audience in the last few rallies start yelling out things like "Kill him", "Off with his Head", "traitor" and the new favorite "terrorist" when they are talking about Obama it is just going too far. It is bad enough to say traitor or terrorist. It is bad enough for the campaign to overtly question his patriotism. But the shouts of Kill him, off with his head and the like is just flat out overboard.

The problem with this is I have yet to see them stop their speeches and call out these individuals yelling these things. Now maybe they have but I have yet to see videos or even a report or story that they have done this. To the contrary I have read that they don't say anything and one article claimed they did not hear it. Sounds fishy to me. But I tell you this, they need to call these people out, tell them to stop with some of those things and have security remove them. I don't care if you can't stand a person's politics, I don't care if you are trying to win the election, I don't care if you don't like or trust someone you are running against...That stuff needs to stop and it needs to be stopped by McCain and Palin in these rallies and there is no excuse for it not to stop.

Now...it is one thing to talk about ties to groups or people. It is another to let those kinds of things fly. Again there is just no excuse for it. To let it go like that.

So I'm sorry, I think he has lost some of his intergrity by being against some things for a time only to now change his mind since it appears he is losing or the possibility of losing. He has lost some credibility when he uses Obama not doing the Town Hall meetings as an excuse of why he changed his no dirty/negative campaign pledge.

Like him or don't like him, agree with him or don't agree with him. It has started getting to a point where things are getting out of hand and it appears they are not willing to do anything about it. In some ways it seems they are actually stoking it whether it is directly or indirectly or even if that is not their intetions...because not stopping some of those things in their rallies is basically saying it is ok to the crowd.

I hope that explains why some see him in certain lights. :cool:

[Sasquatch]

I think it falls back to John's own words and things that have been done to him in the past.

By that I mean he said it would not be a dirty or negative campaign. But when Obama and his campaign could not come up with a deal for Town Hall meetings the idea was cancelled and later John would honestly say that he did not want to go dirty or negative (do not remember the exact phrasing) but he was forced to do so because Obama would not do the town hall meetings. Now I don't know, maybe it is just me, but that seems a pretty lame excuse of why he was forced to do it.

In the past McCain would denounce anyone using Obama's Middle name, and lets not play dumb we know why it is being used by some. Heck even recently there was a allusion by a speaker at one of the rallies about Obamas ties and someone yelled terrorist and whether the person heard it or not the speaker said...well his middle name IS Hussien. So it is pretty clear why people are using it in the fashion they are using it and it is not just to say his full name no matter how many on here act like it is. As my buddy Scipio likes to say to me...Intellectual honesty. But either way Mccain has denounced doing that.

However it is starting to pop up more and more at these rallies by people introducing McCain and or Palin. Now I have heard that McCain has denounced it afterwards in the press but I also have to believe they really don't mind it because I would imagine they would make it clear in no uncertain terms to the people doing the introductions NOT to say that or they are going to get in trouble...chances are these guys would not say it. That is just my opinion.

Now also in the past John has said he will not go into the Ayers connections. I think he has said it more than once.

However he is now switching gears and it seems like he is going to go with it now. I think he is only switching to it now because he must feel his campaign and chances are in trouble. He has been opposed to it all along but now just changes his mind.

Another thing. When some of his voters/supporters in the audience in the last few rallies start yelling out things like "Kill him", "Off with his Head", "traitor" and the new favorite "terrorist" when they are talking about Obama it is just going too far. It is bad enough to say traitor or terrorist. It is bad enough for the campaign to overtly question his patriotism. But the shouts of Kill him, off with his head and the like is just flat out overboard.

The problem with this is I have yet to see them stop their speeches and call out these individuals yelling these things. Now maybe they have but I have yet to see videos or even a report or story that they have done this. To the contrary I have read that they don't say anything and one article claimed they did not hear it. Sounds fishy to me. But I tell you this, they need to call these people out, tell them to stop with some of those things and have security remove them. I don't care if you can't stand a person's politics, I don't care if you are trying to win the election, I don't care if you don't like or trust someone you are running against...That stuff needs to stop and it needs to be stopped by McCain and Palin in these rallies and there is no excuse for it not to stop.

Now...it is one thing to talk about ties to groups or people. It is another to let those kinds of things fly. Again there is just no excuse for it. To let it go like that.

So I'm sorry, I think he has lost some of his intergrity by being against some things for a time only to now change his mind since it appears he is losing or the possibility of losing. He has lost some credibility when he uses Obama not doing the Town Hall meetings as an excuse of why he changed his no dirty/negative campaign pledge.

Like him or don't like him, agree with him or don't agree with him. It has started getting to a point where things are getting out of hand and it appears they are not willing to do anything about it. In some ways it seems they are actually stoking it whether it is directly or indirectly or even if that is not their intetions...because not stopping some of those things in their rallies is basically saying it is ok to the crowd.

I hope that explains why some see him in certain lights. :cool:

You make me feel so inadequate with my laconic responses. :p:

I think I have text envy.

[JBond]

McCain's staking his presidential bid on the success of another surge. I personally think it's the wrong strategy but I suppose he has no other option at this point than to try to whip the rightwing into such a frenzy of hate that they come to the polls in droves.

John McCain 2008: honor, integrity, and valor. :rolleyes:

It's not hate. It's the refusal to be taken in by a charlatan. A empty suit that has accomplished nothing of consequence in his life. It's about not buying into a phony that is the most under qualified person to ever run for President.

It's saying no to socialism and all it represents.

It's about saying no to a man that hangs out with a racist pastor.

It's saying no to a man that wants to eliminate our missile defense shield and gut our military even worse than Clinton did.

It's saying no to a man that traded millions of taxpayer dollars to a convicted felon in order to get a deal on his house.

It's saying no to a man that funded ACORN to the tune of $800,000 in order to commit country wide voter fraud.

It's saying no to a man that sued Citibank to force them to give loans to people who did not qualify leading to a financial disaster.

It's about who Barack Hussein Obama really is. Which is not much.

[Sasquatch]

It's the refusal to be taken in by a charlatan. A empty suit that has accomplished nothing of consequence in his life.

He only went to Harvard, was selected by his peers to run the Harvard Law Review, served as a state and US Senator, penned two best-selling books, defied the odds to beat one of the strongest political machines ever assembled, and is poised to become the first African American president in history. All this by someone who grew up under modest circumstances.

Yup, a charlatan who has accomplished nothing. :rolleyes:

[JBond]

BP, Barack promised a lot of thing he would do in this election also. The biggest one is he would accept public funding. He lied to the American people and to John McCain. Now there is an investigation into his alleged illegal fundraising done over the Internet without any regulation or supervision.

[Maikeru-sama]

Of course he has let the dogs off the chain, and their names are JBond and Angus :p: .

[MetalHead]

You should ask Senator McCain. He's the one that forswore such tactics at the beginning of the process and promised to conduct an "honorable" campaign about the issues and specific policies.

Because if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,it's a chicken,right?

[MetalHead]

It's not hate. It's the refusal to be taken in by a charlatan. A empty suit that has accomplished nothing of consequence in his life. It's about not buying into a phony that is the most under qualified person to ever run for President.

It's saying no to socialism and all it represents.

It's about saying no to a man that hangs out with a racist pastor.

It's saying no to a man that wants to eliminate our missile defense shield and gut our military even worse than Clinton did.

It's saying no to a man that traded millions of taxpayer dollars to a convicted felon in order to get a deal on his house.

It's saying no to a man that funded ACORN to the tune of $800,000 in order to commit country wide voter fraud.

It's saying no to a man that sued Citibank to force them to give loans to people who did not qualify leading to a financial disaster.

It's about who Barack Hussein Obama really is. Which is not much.

I appreciate your efforts.
Sadly,they are futile.
You'll have an easier time convincing a mother her kid is ugly than getting a liberal to open his/her eyes.

[JBond]

He only went to Harvard, was selected by his peers to run the Harvard Law Review, served as a state and US Senator, penned two best-selling books, defied the odds to beat one of the strongest political machines ever assembled, and is poised to become the first African American president in history. All this by someone who grew up under modest circumstances.

Yup, a charlatan who has accomplished nothing. :rolleyes:

How did he get into Harvard? Who paved the way for him. We can go there if you want. Harvard does not impress me. I know a bunch of Libs that went there. What did he accomplish as a state senator? How is Illinios a better state thanks to direct actions by Barack?

He fed his massive ego by writting a couple of books. Wow! Impressive!

I don't care if he is black. Only racists are concerned about race.

Why don't you tell me why you are voting for him.

[Sasquatch]

Harvard does not impress me.

Of course not, a certain segment of the right disdains anything remotely associated with intellectualism.

An admiral's son getting into the Naval Academy is way more impressive than someone from humble origins breaking into the Ivy Leagues. :rolleyes:

[MetalHead]

How did he get into Harvard? Who paved the way for him. We can go there if you want. Harvard does not impress me. I know a bunch of Libs that went there. What did he accomplish as a state senator. How is Illinios a better state thanks to direct actions by Barack?

He fed his massive ego by writting a couple of books. Wow! Impressive!

I don't care if he is black. Only racists are concerned about race.

Why don't you tell me why you are voting for him.

You and I know that the Obama candidacy its really "Trading Places" in real life.
The bet:
To put the most corrupt,left wing marxist Chicago thug in the White House.
Sadly,there is no happy ending here.

[JBond]

Of course not, a certain segment of the right disdains anything remotely associated with intellectualism.

An admiral's son getting into the Naval Academy is way more impressive than someone from humble origins breaking into the Ivy Leagues. :rolleyes:

He did not break into the Ivy League. he was admitted because certain well placed radicals wanted him there. I don't disdain higher education or intellectualism. In fact I went and got me some of that education stuff myself. Yes I did. In fact I was accepted at several of them fancy schools. I ended up attending Seton Hall University. They gave the biggest grant and I wanted to stay close to home because of the health of my mother. We were living in NJ at the time.

You still did not answer why you want to vote for Obama. You haven't listed anything he has done to be considered the leader of the free world let alone what he has accomplished as a community organizer, state senator or in congress. What has he done?

[ZB9]

You haven't listed anything he has done to be considered the leader of the free world let alone what he has accomplished as a community organizer, state senator or in congress. What has he done?

deflection and dodging of the question in 3..2..1...

[Sasquatch]

He did not break into the Ivy League. he was admitted because certain well placed radicals wanted him there. I don't disdain higher education or intellectualism. In fact I went and got me some of that education stuff myself. Yes I did. In fact I was accepted at several of them fancy schools. I ended up attending Seton Hall University. They gave the biggest grant and I wanted to stay close to home because of the health of my mother. We were living in NJ at the time.

You still did not answer why you want to vote for Obama. You haven't listed anything he has done to be considered the leader of the free world let alone what he has accomplished as a community organizer, state senator or in congress. What has he done?

I'm not voting for Obama.

And, by all means, oppose Obama all you want but you'd appear less fanatical and envious (nothing wrong with Seton Hall, mind you, but let's be honest: it's not really Princeton or even Rutgers) if you simply gave the man credit for his educational accomplishments.

[JBond]

I'm not voting for Obama.

And, by all means, oppose Obama all you want but you'd appear less fanatical and envious (nothing wrong with Seton Hall, mind you, but let's be honest: it's not really Princeton or even Rutgers) if you simply gave the man credit for his educational accomplishments.

So why are you defending the guy like he is your father? You don't have a dog in this fight. Do you just need attention?

I'm sure you were the first to defend Bush and his Ivy League MBA.

[Sasquatch]

So why are you defending the guy like he is your father? You don't have a dog in this fight. Do you just need attention?

I'm sure you were the first to defend Bush and his Ivy League MBA.

Because I prefer him to McCain/Palin obviously. Obama is slightly closer to the extreme left.

[MetalHead]

Because I prefer him to McCain/Palin obviously. Obama is slightly closer to the extreme left.

Obama is left of the extreme left.

[Sasquatch]

Obama is left of the extreme left.

Obviously, you either have never heard of or don't fully grasp the concept of "know thine enemy."

[JBond]

Obama is left of the extreme left.

I think it's time to for everyone to re-read George Orwell's 1984.

[trickblue]

Of course not, a certain segment of the right disdains anything remotely associated with intellectualism.

An admiral's son getting into the Naval Academy is way more impressive than someone from humble origins breaking into the Ivy Leagues. :rolleyes:

See... herein lies the issue with those of us not in the Northeast...

Somehow, Ivy League schools provide a better education... it simply isn't true. There are fine institutions all over this country...

Rice, Baylor, University of Dallas and there are many others that provide just as good of an "elite" education...

ALL of the military academies provide a top notch education equal to Ivy League entities easily...

[MetalHead]

Obviously, you either have never heard of or don't fully grasp the concept of "know thine enemy."

Show me your friends and I'll show you your future.
It certainly applies to you.

[Trouble]

He only went to Harvard, was selected by his peers to run the Harvard Law Review, served as a state and US Senator, penned two best-selling books,

All this by someone who grew up under modest circumstances.


I wonder how Barrack Obama's half bother "George Hussein Obama" feels about his brothers success? His 26 year old little brother who has wallowed in abject poverty his in entire life in one of the poorest slums in all the world in Nairobi, Kenya. Who lives in a one room, dirt floor shanty made of scrapes of wood and rusted bits of corrugated mental. The little brother that Barrack himself spoke so highly of in his best selling book "Dreams from my Father".

What kind of man is Barrack Obama who had a reported income of 4.6 million dollars in 2007 alone, and wants Government to care for everyone, but who ignores his own flesh & blood living in complete poverty & despair? This is just another of many instances where the circumstances of Barrack Obamas life present fundamental questions that must be asked regarding his true character.

There is something very disquieting about a man who has risen from humble origins as you say, and achieved enourmous financial and social success, yet ignores the plight of his kin. Obama has all the resources of a Untied States Senator at his disposal. He could have easily, with a modest investment from his millions his made capitalizing off his "African Roots", helped his little brother escape his destitue circumstances. However, while Barrack Obama makes plans to move into the White House, his little brother George is wondering where his going to get his next square meal.







.................................................. ........................

[vta]

See... herein lies the issue with those of us not in the Northeast...

Somehow, Ivy League schools provide a better education... it simply isn't true. There are fine institutions all over this country...

Rice, Baylor, University of Dallas and there are many others that provide just as good of an "elite" education...

ALL of the military academies provide a top notch education equal to Ivy League entities easily...

Let me tell you, unequivocally, there certainly exists an attitude among people here in the Northeast that simply their geographical location affords them some kind of prestige.

Considering most don't mind finding guilt by association (when it applies to someone they dislike), it stands to reason they think there is some kind importance by association as well.

It's sad and funny.

[JBond]

Let me tell you, unequivocally, there certainly exists an attitude among people here in the Northeast that simply their geographical location affords them some kind of prestige.

Considering most don't mind finding guilt by association (when it applies to someone they dislike), it stands to reason they think there is some kind importance by association as well.

It's sad and funny.

I hated the elitists on the east coast. I was looked down upon because I went to lowly Seton Hall. It used to piss me off. I am enjoying life in the heartland much better. Plus it doesn't cost a million dollars for a one room apartment. Who is the smart one?

[ABQCOWBOY]

See... herein lies the issue with those of us not in the Northeast...

Somehow, Ivy League schools provide a better education... it simply isn't true. There are fine institutions all over this country...

Rice, Baylor, University of Dallas and there are many others that provide just as good of an "elite" education...

ALL of the military academies provide a top notch education equal to Ivy League entities easily...


In fact, the Acadamies are better. There is no equivalent to the education you receive at either West Point, AFA or Annapolis. They truely are second to none.

[ZB9]

I wonder how Barrack Obama's half bother "George Hussein Obama" feels about his brothers success? His 26 year old little brother who has wallowed in abject poverty his in entire life in one of the poorest slums in all the world in Nairobi, Kenya. Who lives in a one room, dirt floor shanty made of scrapes of wood and rusted bits of corrugated mental. The little brother that Barrack himself spoke so highly of in his best selling book "Dreams from my Father".

What kind of man is Barrack Obama who had a reported income of 4.6 million dollars in 2007 alone, and wants Government to care for everyone, but who ignores his own flesh & blood living in complete poverty & despair? This is just another of many instances where the circumstances of Barrack Obamas life present fundamental questions that must be asked regarding his true character.

There is something very disquieting about a man who has risen from humble origins as you say, and achieved enourmous financial and social success, yet ignores the plight of his kin. Obama has all the resources of a Untied States Senator at his disposal. He could have easily, with a modest investment from his millions his made capitalizing off his "African Roots", helped his little brother escape his destitue circumstances. However, while Barrack Obama makes plans to move into the White House, his little brother George is wondering where his going to get his next square meal.







.................................................. ........................

I found that interesting as well. Obama is interested in helping the poor, unless it is his own brother

it's another case of Obama hiding and supressing his past and his family for some reason.

[Sasquatch]

See... herein lies the issue with those of us not in the Northeast...

Somehow, Ivy League schools provide a better education... it simply isn't true. There are fine institutions all over this country...

Rice, Baylor, University of Dallas and there are many others that provide just as good of an "elite" education...

ALL of the military academies provide a top notch education equal to Ivy League entities easily...

Ivy League schools are competitive not necessarily because you receive, objectively speaking, the very best education there but because they are prestigious. They are among the most competitive and difficult post-secondary institutions to get into. To have done so with no family connections is an impressive feat and only a rightwing partisan would try to minimize the accomplishment.

[Trouble]

I found that interesting as well. Obama is interested in helping the poor, unless it is his own brother

it's another case of Obama hiding and supressing his past and his family for some reason.


It's obvious from what little is known about Obama that he lacks character & integrity. He's an angery man on a mission to fulfill his own selfish agenda, with no real conscious thought or concern for others.





.................................................. .................................................. ....

[trickblue]

Ivy League schools are competitive not necessarily because you receive, objectively speaking, the very best education there but because they are prestigious. They are among the most competitive and difficult post-secondary institutions to get into. To have done so with no family connections is an impressive feat and only a rightwing partisan would try to minimize the accomplishment.

Nice at the labeling... I am not a rightwing apologist, but rather a classic conservative...

There is a big difference...

Quite an accomplishment to get in to, and graduate from, an Ivy League institution...

So, I ask you... why does George Bush have degrees from TWO of them, but yet you label him an idiot?

I mean, after all, it IS an accomplishment. George Bush is our only president with an MBA... and from the two anchors of the Ivy League, Yale and Harvard.

I am not defending Bush here as I don't like his policies, but while you sit on the hill disparaging those without Ivy League educations, the thing you hate most in this world is an individual with TWO of them...

I know... "Daddy"...

Surely he can't be an idiot with TWO of them?

Oh I know "Daddy"...

I still challenge you to say a degree from an Ivy league School is more prestigious than a degree from Rice...

[REDVOLUTION]

You should ask Senator McCain. He's the one that forswore such tactics at the beginning of the process and promised to conduct an "honorable" campaign about the issues and specific policies.


Obama's affiliations and decisions and judgments ARE issues NOW.


I think it falls back to John's own words and things that have been done to him in the past.

By that I mean he said it would not be a dirty or negative campaign. But when Obama and his campaign could not come up with a deal for Town Hall meetings the idea was cancelled and later John would honestly say that he did not want to go dirty or negative (do not remember the exact phrasing) but he was forced to do so because Obama would not do the town hall meetings. Now I don't know, maybe it is just me, but that seems a pretty lame excuse of why he was forced to do it.


I hadnt hear that. So I agree it was wrong for him to do that and he should be called on it. Call him a liar, talk about discuss, gloves come off.


In the past McCain would denounce anyone using Obama's Middle name, and lets not play dumb we know why it is being used by some. Heck even recently there was a allusion by a speaker at one of the rallies about Obamas ties and someone yelled terrorist and whether the person heard it or not the speaker said...well his middle name IS Hussien. So it is pretty clear why people are using it in the fashion they are using it and it is not just to say his full name no matter how many on here act like it is. As my buddy Scipio likes to say to me...Intellectual honesty. But either way Mccain has denounced doing that.

However it is starting to pop up more and more at these rallies by people introducing McCain and or Palin. Now I have heard that McCain has denounced it afterwards in the press but I also have to believe they really don't mind it because I would imagine they would make it clear in no uncertain terms to the people doing the introductions NOT to say that or they are going to get in trouble...chances are these guys would not say it. That is just my opinion.

You may be right that they may like the "effect" of using it. BUT you have to give some of the blame to the media for throwing softballs at Obama, and letting stories blow over or discussing and dismissing Obama issues. People are getting fed up and this is the result. Right or wrong.


Now also in the past John has said he will not go into the Ayers connections. I think he has said it more than once.

However he is now switching gears and it seems like he is going to go with it now. I think he is only switching to it now because he must feel his campaign and chances are in trouble. He has been opposed to it all along but now just changes his mind.

Yeah he is. I think that is in part to Obama saying one thing a month or so back about Ayers and then recently saying something like "he was a guy in the hood".... come on.... you are not stupid and neither am I.


Another thing. When some of his voters/supporters in the audience in the last few rallies start yelling out things like "Kill him", "Off with his Head", "traitor" and the new favorite "terrorist" when they are talking about Obama it is just going too far. It is bad enough to say traitor or terrorist. It is bad enough for the campaign to overtly question his patriotism. But the shouts of Kill him, off with his head and the like is just flat out overboard.

The problem with this is I have yet to see them stop their speeches and call out these individuals yelling these things. Now maybe they have but I have yet to see videos or even a report or story that they have done this. To the contrary I have read that they don't say anything and one article claimed they did not hear it. Sounds fishy to me. But I tell you this, they need to call these people out, tell them to stop with some of those things and have security remove them. I don't care if you can't stand a person's politics, I don't care if you are trying to win the election, I don't care if you don't like or trust someone you are running against...That stuff needs to stop and it needs to be stopped by McCain and Palin in these rallies and there is no excuse for it not to stop.

Now...it is one thing to talk about ties to groups or people. It is another to let those kinds of things fly. Again there is just no excuse for it. To let it go like that.

So I'm sorry, I think he has lost some of his intergrity by being against some things for a time only to now change his mind since it appears he is losing or the possibility of losing. He has lost some credibility when he uses Obama not doing the Town Hall meetings as an excuse of why he changed his no dirty/negative campaign pledge.

Like him or don't like him, agree with him or don't agree with him. It has started getting to a point where things are getting out of hand and it appears they are not willing to do anything about it. In some ways it seems they are actually stoking it whether it is directly or indirectly or even if that is not their intetions...because not stopping some of those things in their rallies is basically saying it is ok to the crowd.

I hope that explains why some see him in certain lights. :cool:


Agreed that words and such should not be tolerated. Security should have escorted them out. Obama is an elected official.

Disagree that McCain and Palin have to say something. They could but I dont beat them down because they didnt.


Lets not kid ourselves though. Politics is dirty business on many levels. Pols will attack pols. Pols will take from people. People will bleed for the Pols, but the Pols wont bleed for the people.

So, are they wrong for saying hateful things about Obama and/or McCain or Biden or Palin = Absolutely.

Has one side created the hate and utter disdain for the other - absolutely.

Party System, like Windows = that blue screen system failure. Gotta some Linux up and running in this mother flower.

[Sasquatch]

Nice at the labeling... I am not a rightwing apologist, but rather a classic conservative...

There is a big difference...

Quite an accomplishment to get in to, and graduate from, an Ivy League institution...

So, I ask you... why does George Bush have degrees from TWO of them, but yet you label him an idiot?

I mean, after all, it IS an accomplishment. George Bush is our only president with an MBA... and from the two anchors of the Ivy League, Yale and Harvard.

I am not defending Bush here as I don't like his policies, but while you sit on the hill disparaging those without Ivy League educations, the thing you hate most in this world is an individual with TWO of them...

I know... "Daddy"...

Surely he can't be an idiot with TWO of them?

Oh I know "Daddy"...

I still challenge you to say a degree from an Ivy league School is more prestigious than a degree from Rice...

You've answered you own question. It only requires common sense, afterall. We know how the game works: you get to the top by talent or family connections. It's always been that way.

And, you bet, a degree from an Ivy League school is more prestigious than Rice. Reality is cruel and judgmental sometimes, my friend, even though I'm sure Rice provides its students a top notch education.

[ZB9]

We know how the game works: you get to the top by talent or family connections. It's always been that way.



or with connections with radicals like Dr. Khalid Al-Mansour, and his connection to a Saudi Arabian prince...at least according to Obama supporter and renowned civil rights figure Percy Sutton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8npeYfKI_ns

[trickblue]

You've answered you own question. It only requires common sense, afterall. We know how the game works: you get to the top by talent or family connections. It's always been that way.

And, you bet, a degree from an Ivy League school is more prestigious than Rice. Reality is cruel and judgmental sometimes, my friend, even though I'm sure Rice provides its students a top notch education.

Ladies and gentlemen... this is why we have problems in this country...

Us Southerners... well... we just aren't good/smart enough...

This is the perfect example of the Northeast elitist mentality...

I still love ya Sassy... you pompous arse... ;)

[Maikeru-sama]

Ladies and gentlemen... this is why we have problems in this country...

Us Southerners... well... we just aren't good/smart enough...

This is the perfect example of the Northeast elitist mentality...

I still love ya Sassy... you pompous arse... ;)

I don't know about that Trickblue.

I am for all things Texas and Rice is a good school but I think an Ivy League degree would look more favorable than a Rice degree. Heck, Rice's nickname is "The Harvard of the South". Of course that depends on what you study and where you go to work after you graduate, but I don't think Sasquatch is far off the mark.

[trickblue]

I don't know about that Trickblue.

I am for all things Texas and Rice is a good school but I think an Ivy League degree would look more favorable than a Rice degree. Heck, Rice's nickname is "The Harvard of the South". Of course that depends on what you study and where you go to work after you graduate, but I don't think Sasquatch is far off the mark.

You are a smart guy Mike... to each their own...

But in my opinion you are furthering the myth...

[VietCowboy]

Ladies and gentlemen... this is why we have problems in this country...

Us Southerners... well... we just aren't good/smart enough...

This is the perfect example of the Northeast elitist mentality...

I still love ya Sassy... you pompous arse... ;)

I've gone to both a NE and Southern school (I'm still going to this southern school), and I've heard from admission's counselors of both schools you get a good number of parents who call in after April 1st complaining why their son/daughter did not get in or was waitlisted. These parents have a lot of money, and hey, what's a couple million to let a couple of their kids in. It's really sad.

And I gotta tell ya, being a "pompous arse" is not limited to the NE. Hate to say it, but the first time I saw a student with a chauffeur at freshmen moving in day was not at my alma mater up north, but here in the south. Hell, at my alma mater, I would say most of us didn't even own a car (costs $600+ for a parking permit). Even our professors rode their bikes to school.

[trickblue]

I've gone to both a NE and Southern school (I'm still going to this southern school), and I've heard from admission's counselors of both schools you get a good number of parents who call in after April 1st complaining why their son/daughter did not get in or was waitlisted. These parents have a lot of money, and hey, what's a couple million to let a couple of their kids in. It's really sad.

And I gotta tell ya, being a "pompous arse" is not limited to the NE. Hate to say it, but the first time I saw a student with a chauffeur at freshmen moving in day was not at my alma mater up north, but here in the south. Hell, at my alma mater, I would say most of us didn't even own a car (costs $600+ for a parking permit). Even our professors rode their bikes to school.

So... you are saying... that Ivy Leaguers aren't afforded more respect by the MSM because they are Ivy League?

[VietCowboy]

So... you are saying... that Ivy Leaguers aren't afforded more respect by the MSM because they are Ivy League?

what? There's nothing about respect, you have to earn it regardless of where you come from. There are jerks and idiots everywhere.

[Vintage]

Obama is left of the extreme left.


Failblog.org wishes to discuss this matter with you.

[ScipioCowboy]

what? There's nothing about respect, you have to earn it regardless of where you come from. There are jerks and idiots everywhere.

Ideally, you're absolutely right. You should have to earn it.

However, Trick, VTA, and I are discussing a specific type of elitism perpetuated by certain elements within both the American Left and the mainstream media. This brand of elitism intimates that true intellectualism is, for the most part, relegated to the East Coast and East Coast Academic Institutions, such as Ivy League Universities, and anyone who wishes to be regarded as an intellectual (rather than some rube from the sticks) must follow their examples.

Obviously, elitism exists in many different forms, but one particular form of elitism is disseminated far more vociferously than other forms.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not denigrating anyone with an East Coast or Ivy League education; it's a great accomplishment for which I have much respect. I'm simply refuting the notion that intellectualism can be defined so rigidly and myopically.

[VietCowboy]

Ideally, you're absolutely right. You should have to earn it.

However, Trick, VTA, and I are discussing a specific type of elitism perpetuated by certain elements within both the American Left and the mainstream media. This brand of elitism intimates that true intellectualism is, for the most part, relegated to the East Coast and East Coast Academic Institutions, such as Ivy League Universities, and anyone who wishes to be regarded as an intellectual (rather than some rube from the sticks) must follow their examples.

Obviously, elitism exists in many different forms, but one particular form of elitism is disseminated far more vociferously than other forms.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not denigrating anyone with an East Coast or Ivy League education; it's a great accomplishment for which I have much respect. I'm simply refuting the notion that intellectualism can be defined so rigidly and myopically.

no doubt there are stuck up people with an East Coast or Ivy League education. I guess I'm not really understanding what you mean by "follow their examples" to be regarded as an intellectual?

[Sasquatch]

Ladies and gentlemen... this is why we have problems in this country...

Us Southerners... well... we just aren't good/smart enough...

This is the perfect example of the Northeast elitist mentality...

I still love ya Sassy... you pompous arse... ;)

I did not denigrate Rice University in any way.

I simply stated the widely held opinion that an Ivy League degree confers more prestige than Rice whether it indicates a superior education or not.

All this because I claimed that, at the very least, Obama deserves respect for his academic achievements in response to a post that he has "accomplished nothing"?