Downs: Team MVP? It's Larry Allen

[Maikeru-sama]

Michael Downs: Team MVP? It's Larry Allen

03:00 PM CST on Friday, November 19, 2004



Former Cowboys All-Pro safety Michael Downs offers insight, analysis and a peek behind the X's and O's every Friday exclusively on CowboysPlus.com. Downs, a Rice graduate, played safety for the Cowboys from 1981-88. Send questions for Downs' consideration to askdowns@dallasnews.com

There haven’t been many shining stars for the Cowboys this season. The veteran players brought in during the off-season have performed well at times. But no one has played exceptionally. With little hope for the playoffs, Bill Parcells may begin to look at younger players. Just this week, many experts suggested the player shuffle should have started in the second half of the Eagles game Monday night.

One player I have watched throughout the season is tackle Larry Allen. There should be no shuffling here. In his 11th year as a Cowboy, I would vote for Allen as the Cowboys’ MVP. Tight end Jason Witten would be a distant second.

Without fanfare, Allen has played consistently well each week. Not too many members of the media have noticed or at least talked or wrote about his performance. Just a few months ago, it appeared Allen was on his way out of the silver and blue.

Allen struggled through the 2003 season with injuries. Parcells even publicly questioned Allen’s desire and commitment to the team. His willingness to play while injured spoke volumes to me.

In this era of multimillion dollar contracts, you see a number of players who will sit out Sundays with seemingly minor discomforts. Pre-game and game analysts openly criticize such decisions. In part, I would agree with many of those questionable situations. I do believe that if a player can play, he should. Not playing when you are able is selfish.

On the other side, I know that many reported injuries are more serious in nature. In those cases, a player would be foolish and, again, selfish to play. He could end up shortening his career, and he could hinder the team’s effort to win on Sunday.

A year ago, I questioned Allen’s decision to play hurt. I still have visions of him limping off the field. I can see the medical staff asking Allen questions while he was grimacing with pain.

In 1988, I had a similar season. Early in the season, I suffered a torn groin muscle. Victor Scott was my backup, but he was already out with an injury. I played the rest of the season basically on one leg. Of course, I didn’t play well, but I felt an obligation to the team. Just like Allen’s situation, my performance was questioned at the end of the season. Those questions hurt. I will admit that it’s a little bit of ego, but it’s more about pride and commitment that inspires players to play hurt. Coaches must know this even if the public doesn’t.

I’m proud and little bit surprised that Allen has played so well this year. The great thing about his recovery is that Allen is a good guy. Physically, Allen is intimidating. Personality-wise, he is a soft, gentle husband and father. In an interview, Allen once told me of the special relationship he had with the grandmother who raised him. As he put it, “She was my heart.”

Allen credits his grandmother for keeping him out of trouble in the gang-infested streets of Compton, Calif. I didn’t expect such sentiments from this giant of a man. Unfortunately, Allen’s grandmother died during training camp his rookie season. He was so devastated that he was ready to walk away from football for good.

Eleven years later, we all can see what a shame that would have been. Allen has had a Hall of Fame career. He is arguably the Cowboys’ all-time best offensive lineman. This season has solidified his greatness.

Allen also told me how he approaches every season and every game. He explained that even after the two Super Bowls, the All-Pro and Pro Bowl selections, he still must “respect football” the same way he did as a rookie.

“There is always someone trying to replace you. And each week there’s a guy on the other side of the line trying to beat you," he said. "So I have to be a little afraid so that I will continue to work hard.”

I never questioned his work ethic, not even last year.

This week against an outstanding Raven defense I expect the same thing from Allen that I have grown to appreciate. He will give his all, injured or not. I hope his teammates are watching him as closely as I do. Larry Allen has a lot of physical ability, but he has a much bigger heart.

YOUR TURN

Q: The Cowboys' young defensive backs were overmatched Monday. Can they overcome the shellacking they received?

Darby, Atlanta

DOWNS: Darby, I don't think they will overcome their performance on Monday night for at least two reasons.

First, the secondary has had to shuffle players. Imagine coordinating a group of individuals who must be in step with one another, but each week there is a new member in the group. Players must learn each others' strengths and weaknesses. It often takes weeks, if not seasons, to achieve this.

Secondly, the secondary can't be feeling real confident right now. Mentally, the players will press to make plays, which could result in more mistakes. The secondary may look better this week against the Ravens because Baltimore's quarterback and receivers are not skilled. Overall, though, we can expect much of the same.

• • •
Q: Are the Cowboys' defensive backs playing physically enough against their opponents?

DOWNS: No. There were a number of plays throughout the season when they lacked a physical presence. Other than Roy Williams, the secondary seems undersized and not aggressive.

As a defensive back or any defensive player, you must have a "I will do whatever it takes to stop them from scoring" atttude. That's not to say that everyone will be a Ronnie Lott-type of player. But the Cowboys' secondary seems to be almost polite in its effort to keep the opposition out of the end zone.

LINK (http://www.cowboysplus.com/buzzbar/stories/111904cpbuzzdowns.715eef62.html)

[Maikeru-sama]

One player I have watched throughout the season is tackle Larry Allen. There should be no shuffling here. In his 11th year as a Cowboy, I would vote for Allen as the Cowboys’ MVP. Tight end Jason Witten would be a distant second.

And so the legend of Lawrence Allen continues....

JFYI, when Allen was 13 years old and growing up in Compton, he was once stabbed multiple times in the head and kneck by his 11 year old neighbor.

I will tell my kids and grandkids about this guy, arguably, the best player in Cowboys history....

- Mike G.

[MichaelWinicki]

Larry Allen being MVP of this sorry lot is truly like being the tallest dwarf in the circus...

[Maikeru-sama]

Larry Allen being MVP of this sorry lot is truly like being the tallest dwarf in the circus...

Doesn't matter....

The man could have easily just laid down and called it a season. Nice to know he is still playing with pride and not giving up. I dont know if he is MVP of the team, I have a hard time not giving it to Witten, but I respect Downs' opinion.

- Mike G.

[VirusX]

One player I have watched throughout the season is tackle Larry Allen. There should be no shuffling here. In his 11th year as a Cowboy, I would vote for Allen as the Cowboys’ MVP. Tight end Jason Witten would be a distant second.

Larry Allen is a guard =)

[Maikeru-sama]

[QUOTE=mickgreen58]
One player I have watched throughout the season is tackle Larry Allen. There should be no shuffling here. In his 11th year as a Cowboy, I would vote for Allen as the Cowboys’ MVP. Tight end Jason Witten would be a distant second.
[QUOTE]

Larry Allen is a guard =)

Yep he is a guard, but he did start his career playing Tackle, but that was years ago :D .

- Mike G.

[diehard2294]

LA has played well, but no way he is the MVP over Witten, especially Witten being a distant 2nd :confused:

[AdamJT13]

Q: Are the Cowboys' defensive backs playing physically enough against their opponents?

DOWNS: No.

Not that it would change the answer to the question, but I saw something kind of interesting/funny when I was reviewing the game tape from Monday's game. On the play when McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds before throwing that 60-yard pass that Freddie Mitchell caught over Nate Jones, Terrell Owens lined up in the slot on the right. Newman lined up across from him. Owens then went in motion to the left slot, and Newman followed (showing that it's man-to-man coverage). And when Owens came off the line of scrimmage, Newman chucked him so hard that Owens fell over. It never got a mention because of what happened on the rest of the play, but it was strange to see the 6-3, 230-pound Owens getting knocked right over by Newman (who blanketed him the rest of the play, too, which is why McNabb had to keep scrambling).

[Hostile]

And so the legend of Lawrence Allen continues....

JFYI, when Allen was 13 years old and growing up in Compton, he was once stabbed multiple times in the head and kneck by his 11 year old neighbor.

I will tell my kids and grandkids about this guy, arguably, the best player in Cowboys history....

- Mike G.
In my opinion Mick he is the best player ever to play here. Every other player who has come through this team that can be argued as the all time best at a position has some serious talent in the argument with them.

Larry Allen has only John Hannah as a comparison and most NFL types agree LA is the best ever at OG. If he had played his entire career at OG Hannah would barely be an afterthought. Hannah could have never been an All Pro at another position.

That's saying something because I truly admire John Hannah. I think his one on one battle swith Randy White may have been some of the best football I've ever seen. I wish we had played NE more often in those years.

I think LA at his best could have dominated any DE or DT in NFL History. He may not be what he once was but who is?

The man is great.

[Jimz31]

Not that it would change the answer to the question, but I saw something kind of interesting/funny when I was reviewing the game tape from Monday's game. On the play when McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds before throwing that 60-yard pass that Freddie Mitchell caught over Nate Jones, Terrell Owens lined up in the slot on the right. Newman lined up across from him. Owens then went in motion to the left slot, and Newman followed (showing that it's man-to-man coverage). And when Owens came off the line of scrimmage, Newman chucked him so hard that Owens fell over. It never got a mention because of what happened on the rest of the play, but it was strange to see the 6-3, 230-pound Owens getting knocked right over by Newman (who blanketed him the rest of the play, too, which is why McNabb had to keep scrambling).

Interesting.....you would think that MNF would have had a camera on TO and they should have shown what was happening to the receivers on that play.

If they did, I definately missed it.

But 14 seconds.....no way a DB can cover someone for that long.....let alone 7 seconds.

[ROMOSAPIEN9]

The Cowboys most valuable player so far this season, is CLEARLY Vinny Testaverde.

Hands down!

[Jimz31]

The Cowboys most valuable player so far this season, is CLEARLY Vinny Testaverde.

Hands down!

No, Dangit......It's McBriar!

[Chocolate Lab]

Interesting.....you would think that MNF would have had a camera on TO and they should have shown what was happening to the receivers on that play.

If they did, I definately missed it.

But 14 seconds.....no way a DB can cover someone for that long.....let alone 7 seconds.

Since that play will probably be shown all year, you may get to see it again... It's evident in the camera angle from the endzone (or that overhead camera they use) behind McNabb. Owens comes from the left side slot and goes across the middle, and Newman sort of punches him with both hands in his chest/side hard enough that it knocked him down.

Adam, if you see this, did you catch that at some point they started playing Newman man-on-man on Owens all over the field, at least part of the time? Earlier I'd thought it was after Owens' second TD, but now I think it was later than that, more the mid/late 2nd quarter. Actually, I think it wasn't long before that 14 second McNabb scramble. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought I noticed during the game.

[Nors]

Witten
Allen


Why is not Roy, Glover, Dat, Tnew in this discussion? That says it ALL

[AdamJT13]

Adam, if you see this, did you catch that at some point they started playing Newman man-on-man on Owens all over the field, at least part of the time? Earlier I'd thought it was after Owens' second TD, but now I think it was later than that, more the mid/late 2nd quarter. Actually, I think it wasn't long before that 14 second McNabb scramble. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought I noticed during the game.

We didn't do that. I went through all of the Eagles' pass plays to see where Owens was on each play and who Newman was covering on each play.

Newman covered Owens on 12 pass plays. One was a 6-yard hitch to Owens, but it was wiped out by a penalty on the Eagles. Another pass to Owens was incomplete. On the other 10 times Newman was covering Owens, there was an incompletion to Pinkston, a 12-yard scramble by McNabb (who was looking for Owens but had to run instead), an incompletion to L.J. Smith, a 12-yard pass to Chad Lewis, a 59-yard pass to Pinkston, a 60-yard pass to Mitchell (when Newman chucked Owens to the ground coming off the line of scrimmage and McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds), another incompletion to L.J. Smith, a 6-yard pass to Westbrook, an incompletion to Chad Lewis (when McNabb was looking for Owens deep but had to dump off to the tight end) and an incompletion to Mitchell.

On the Eagles' pass plays, Owens lined up 11 times to the right (Newman's side), 11 times to the left (Lance Frazier's or Jacques Reeves' side) and 10 times in the slot. Out of the 10 times Owens lined up in the slot, Newman covered him once (he switched men with nickel back Nate Jones -- that was the play when Newman chucked Owens to the ground and McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds before throwing to Mitchell). Of the other nine times Owens was in the slot, he was covered twice by Nate Jones, twice by Roy Williams, four times by Tony Dixon and once by Dexter Coakley/Lynn Scott.

Owens' six catches went for 59 yards (TD) against Nate Jones from the right slot, 8 yards against Frazier from wide left, 17 yards against Frazier from wide left, 27 yards against Roy Williams (TD) in zone coverage from wide left, 16 yards (TD) against Dixon in zone coverage from the right slot and 7 yards against Frazier from wide left. The two incompletions to Owens came when he was being covered in the right flat by Newman and deep left by Frazier. (Owens also had a 6-yard catch on a quick hitch against Newman, but that was wiped out by a penalty.)

The Eagles had only three other completions to wide receivers -- 13 yards to Greg Lewis against Newman (while Owens was being covered by Tony Dixon), 59 yards to Pinkston against Jacques Reeves (while Newman was covering Owens) and 60 yards to Mitchell against Nate Jones (while Newman was covering Owens).

[Chocolate Lab]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. I thought I saw him shadowing him when Owens was in motion a few times, but I guess not. At least the one slot cover was a nice one... I wonder how often the 230 lb. Owens has gotten knocked to the ground. :)

[Ken]

We didn't do that. I went through all of the Eagles' pass plays to see where Owens was on each play and who Newman was covering on each play.

Newman covered Owens on 12 pass plays. One was a 6-yard hitch to Owens, but it was wiped out by a penalty on the Eagles. Another pass to Owens was incomplete. On the other 10 times Newman was covering Owens, there was an incompletion to Pinkston, a 12-yard scramble by McNabb (who was looking for Owens but had to run instead), an incompletion to L.J. Smith, a 12-yard pass to Chad Lewis, a 59-yard pass to Pinkston, a 60-yard pass to Mitchell (when Newman chucked Owens to the ground coming off the line of scrimmage and McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds), another incompletion to L.J. Smith, a 6-yard pass to Westbrook, an incompletion to Chad Lewis (when McNabb was looking for Owens deep but had to dump off to the tight end) and an incompletion to Mitchell.

On the Eagles' pass plays, Owens lined up 11 times to the right (Newman's side), 11 times to the left (Lance Frazier's or Jacques Reeves' side) and 10 times in the slot. Out of the 10 times Owens lined up in the slot, Newman covered him once (he switched men with nickel back Nate Jones -- that was the play when Newman chucked Owens to the ground and McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds before throwing to Mitchell). Of the other nine times Owens was in the slot, he was covered twice by Nate Jones, twice by Roy Williams, four times by Tony Dixon and once by Dexter Coakley/Lynn Scott.

Owens' six catches went for 59 yards (TD) against Nate Jones from the right slot, 8 yards against Frazier from wide left, 17 yards against Frazier from wide left, 27 yards against Roy Williams (TD) in zone coverage from wide left, 16 yards (TD) against Dixon in zone coverage from the right slot and 7 yards against Frazier from wide left. The two incompletions to Owens came when he was being covered in the right flat by Newman and deep left by Frazier. (Owens also had a 6-yard catch on a quick hitch against Newman, but that was wiped out by a penalty.)

The Eagles had only three other completions to wide receivers -- 13 yards to Greg Lewis against Newman (while Owens was being covered by Tony Dixon), 59 yards to Pinkston against Jacques Reeves (while Newman was covering Owens) and 60 yards to Mitchell against Nate Jones (while Newman was covering Owens).

As usual, great stuff Adam.

It really highlights the stupidity of not letting Newman Cover TO all over the field. I truly believe that our Defense would be better intantly if we did. While Newman hasn't been shutdown this year, he is the best we have and is above average as a cover corner. Why let the opposition pick their battles. Why not take the battle to them. We could be blitizing and not worrying about a guy like Pinkston burning the other corner. Make that guy beat you. 9 out of 10 times, he won't. Especially if we are bringing the heat on the QB.

I hope to see the Cowboys start to let newman shadow the other teams best wr. I think it will help with some of our defensive problems.

[MichaelWinicki]

We didn't do that. I went through all of the Eagles' pass plays to see where Owens was on each play and who Newman was covering on each play.

Newman covered Owens on 12 pass plays. One was a 6-yard hitch to Owens, but it was wiped out by a penalty on the Eagles. Another pass to Owens was incomplete. On the other 10 times Newman was covering Owens, there was an incompletion to Pinkston, a 12-yard scramble by McNabb (who was looking for Owens but had to run instead), an incompletion to L.J. Smith, a 12-yard pass to Chad Lewis, a 59-yard pass to Pinkston, a 60-yard pass to Mitchell (when Newman chucked Owens to the ground coming off the line of scrimmage and McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds), another incompletion to L.J. Smith, a 6-yard pass to Westbrook, an incompletion to Chad Lewis (when McNabb was looking for Owens deep but had to dump off to the tight end) and an incompletion to Mitchell.

On the Eagles' pass plays, Owens lined up 11 times to the right (Newman's side), 11 times to the left (Lance Frazier's or Jacques Reeves' side) and 10 times in the slot. Out of the 10 times Owens lined up in the slot, Newman covered him once (he switched men with nickel back Nate Jones -- that was the play when Newman chucked Owens to the ground and McNabb scrambled around for 14 seconds before throwing to Mitchell). Of the other nine times Owens was in the slot, he was covered twice by Nate Jones, twice by Roy Williams, four times by Tony Dixon and once by Dexter Coakley/Lynn Scott.

Owens' six catches went for 59 yards (TD) against Nate Jones from the right slot, 8 yards against Frazier from wide left, 17 yards against Frazier from wide left, 27 yards against Roy Williams (TD) in zone coverage from wide left, 16 yards (TD) against Dixon in zone coverage from the right slot and 7 yards against Frazier from wide left. The two incompletions to Owens came when he was being covered in the right flat by Newman and deep left by Frazier. (Owens also had a 6-yard catch on a quick hitch against Newman, but that was wiped out by a penalty.)

The Eagles had only three other completions to wide receivers -- 13 yards to Greg Lewis against Newman (while Owens was being covered by Tony Dixon), 59 yards to Pinkston against Jacques Reeves (while Newman was covering Owens) and 60 yards to Mitchell against Nate Jones (while Newman was covering Owens).

Brilliant analysis Adam... Thank you for sharing that.

[Nors]

Brilliant analysis Adam... Thank you for sharing that.


We were torched for 49 freakin points,

Students - what was the lesson learned from Adams synopsis?

[MichaelWinicki]

We were torched for 49 freakin points,

Students - what was the lesson learned from Adams synopsis?


Sure we were torched. But Newman played decently. I think that's the bottom line.

Even the ugliest woman has at least one redeeming feature Nors... ;)

[MichaelWinicki]

We were torched for 49 freakin points,

Students - what was the lesson learned from Adams synopsis?


Plus Nors you don't like Adam anyways because everytime you get into with him he hands out a can whoop ***.

[Nors]

Sure we were torched. But Newman played decently. I think that's the bottom line.

Even the ugliest woman has at least one redeeming feature Nors... ;)

I'm of mind to start Tivo'g this and countering. Adam posts stuff and no one has the balls to counter, 49 team points allowed, Newman a stud all star that game? - I reserve judgement...........He's not lily white by any means this season.


I saw the team MVP thread and no one is voting for him?

[Nors]

Plus Nors you don't like Adam anyways because everytime you get into with him he hands out a can whoop ***.
on your part - nice out try

[wick]

I'm of mind to start Tivo'g this and countering. Adam posts stuff and no one has the balls to counter

Adam has been doing this for a long time, and is the best at what he does. You won't find anything to counter because he unfailingly sticks to facts instead of opinion.

[Hostile]

I'm of mind to start Tivo'g this and countering. Adam posts stuff and no one has the balls to counter, 49 team points allowed, Newman a stud all star that game? - I reserve judgement...........He's not lily white by any means this season.


I saw the team MVP thread and no one is voting for him?
Just an observation.

We played the 3-4 more than at any time since Parcells has been here and gave up those 49 points.

Why are you conveniently seeing only one side of the coin?

Very similar to after the Detroit game when you proclaimed running the ball and TOP as the way this team can win, but were strangely silent after the Cincy game.

When your theories backfire all you do is run and hide.

Adam never does. Anything he says is verifiable. All you have to do is find footage of the play to prove he is right.

Your theories fade like feathers in the wind because they have no basis in verifiable fact. Only your opinions.

Just like the skewed view that the 46 defense is a version of the 3-4. You have no facts to support it.

Like I said, just an observation.

[Chuck 54]

Larry Allen...MVP???? ARe you guys kidding me?

[AdamJT13]

Newman a stud all star that game? - I reserve judgement...........He's not lily white by any means this season.

Nope, he's been having a roller-coaster season, most glaringly with five touchdown passes allowed (although three of them came from 5 yards or less). But he's on a heck of a roll right now, with only one catch allowed in each of the past three games. Add those to the one catch he allowed against Cleveland and one catch he allowed against the Giants, and that's five games in which he allowed one catch. Last year, he had only three such games all season (against Detroit, the Eagles and the Giants). The difference last year was that in the entire regular season, he never allowed more than four catches in a game and allowed only one touchdown (a 7-yarder to Keyshawn).

By the way, if you don't think Newman played well Monday night, go back and watch the tape again. Surely you can find someone who has a copy.

[MichaelWinicki]

Just an observation.

We played the 3-4 more than at any time since Parcells has been here and gave up those 49 points.

Why are you conveniently seeing only one side of the coin?

Very similar to after the Detroit game when you proclaimed running the ball and TOP as the way this team can win, but were strangely silent after the Cincy game.

When your theories backfire all you do is run and hide.

Adam never does. Anything he says is verifiable. All you have to do is find footage of the play to prove he is right.

Your theories fade like feathers in the wind because they have no basis in verifiable fact. Only your opinions.

Just like the skewed view that the 46 defense is a version of the 3-4. You have no facts to support it.

Like I said, just an observation.

LOL!

Yep, just an observation!

[Nors]

I didn't see us playing the 3-4 more than 6-8 plays last game. And it mostly worked or THEY RAN at it. It was the 4-3 getting no pressure and giving up the big plays.

Its lost on you odd man front and bringing multiple players into the box with many up and moving around. Causing confusion and the ability to blitz from many different angles. The 4-6 is no longer relevant as it was knocked out of existence by multiple wide formations :rolleyes:

Theories - thats BS - in fact We don't have personnel to run 4-3, lets stick with Zimmy's 4-3 as its #1, yes - #1 rated D was the mantra. Hell no, we don't need a RCB. The Law trade was a huge miscalculation by Boy Wonder and Superman.

We are all set at LB's! No change needed there. Al Singleton is undersized and sux. Maybe trading Coak was the way to ga, eh? Time to add impact LB's!

I still stand by moving to having ability to play 3-4. If that means getting personell. So freakin be it. We have 5 turnovers all season and are ranked #28 in the League. Thats all on yours 4-3, Don't try and spin that at 3-4 - LOL

Our Scouting department, player personnell and GM all need to be fired! See past 10 years as evidence. Even Parcells can't get by with this talent. 2004 draft right up there with 96/97/00/01! Free agent and drafting a colossal failure in that decade of work.

We were a better TEAM last year!

Cutting Carter was a MISTAKE. 7-2 at this juncture last year. This is a team sport and the team is not responding to the new leaders.

Hambrick was a better RB than the Lee/George/Anderson Tailback stuffed animal.

Isn't it neat we are $5M under cap! Doesn't Adam have a cute trick we can give our current players money and "sneak" Cap money in! WOOOHOOOO

Drew Henson to the Horror of all is not ready to play in the NFL.
Rush On Mr Outstanding - Put Henson in and lets cement a top 5 pick. It'll gear him up for next season. Charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hostile]

I didn't see us playing the 3-4 more than 6-8 plays last game. And it mostly worked or THEY RAN at it. It was the 4-3 getting no pressure and giving up the big plays.
Of course you didn't see it. That would force you to admit it wasn't working. Try watching just the 2nd quarter. It was a disaster.

Its lost on you odd man front and bringing multiple players into the box with many up and moving around. Causing confusion and the ability to blitz from many different angles. The 4-6 is no longer relevant as it was knocked out of existence by multiple wide formations :rolleyes:
Doesn't change anything of what I said. Not a single word. You claimed the 46 was a break off of the 3-4 and it flat out never was and never will be. That's a fact and nothing else you can say on the matter will change that fact. I'll drop this when you have the sack to admit you were wrong.

Theories - thats BS - in fact We don't have personnel to run 4-3, lets stick with Zimmy's 4-3 as its #1, yes - #1 rated D was the mantra. Hell no, we don't need a RCB. The Law trade was a huge miscalculation by Boy Wonder and Superman.
You're spin doctoring Nors. I have NEVER said stick to any defense, coordinator, scheme, etc. Not once, not ever. Go back and find it. I have sad we don't have the personnel for a 3-4 scheme RIGHT NOW. I have said making that switch qould require a major overhaul. I am not a proponent of the 4-3 defense as you seem to imagine. I am a proponent of good defense. I could give a rat's a** about what scheme. The fact of the matter is you don't have a freaking clue about what you preach.

We are all set at LB's! No change needed there. Al Singleton is undersized and sux. Maybe trading Coak was the way to ga, eh? Time to add impact LB's!
Show me where I have said this Nors. Bring up one solid point of fact for a change. How you interpret what other people say is nothing short of nonsense. It's really just that simple. If you will take the time to actually read you'll find that I am hoping for Derrick Johnson and think we can get some good LBs after round 1 as well. I am all for upgrading thsi and every position. I have never once in my life advocated standing pat at a position when we can get better. Just because that is your philosophy don't push it on to others Mr. Carter. Any time we can get better at any position I will want it to happen. Book it.

I still stand by moving to having ability to play 3-4. If that means getting personell. So freakin be it. We have 5 turnovers all season and are ranked #28 in the League. Thats all on yours 4-3, Don't try and spin that at 3-4 - LOL
You're a peach man. My 4-3? Yeah right. People are producing evidence that when we ran the 3-4 we stunk out loud, you want to erase that from the picture. Sorry, your myopia will not erase facts. If you want to turn a blind eye to things that's your business. Don't accuse me of it when you can't make it stick.

Our Scouting department, player personnell and GM all need to be fired! See past 10 years as evidence. Even Parcells can't get by with this talent. 2004 draft right up there with 96/97/00/01! Free agent and drafting a colossal failure in that decade of work.
Boo hoo hoo. Quit blubbering.

We were a better TEAM last year!
Kick the head Coach. There isn't a single fan in here who had anythign to do with it. Whine and cry to teh right people. Spare us this need for a pacifier.

Cutting Carter was a MISTAKE. 7-2 at this juncture last year. This is a team sport and the team is not responding to the new leaders.
If the team is not responding when the actual QB play is better then maybe they need to be cut too. Blame the right people.

Hambrick was a better RB than the Lee/George/Anderson Tailback stuffed animal.
Myy, how quickly you turn on your own opinions and act like they aren't yours. Just weeks ago, George was our salvation. Now it was a guy who last year you were all over too. Living in the past make you feel better?

Isn't it neat we are $5M under cap! Doesn't Adam have a cute trick we can give our current players money and "sneak" Cap money in! WOOOHOOOO
AdamJT13 is a poster on a message board not Jiminy Cricket to Jerry Jones' wallet.

Drew Henson to the Horror of all is not ready to play in the NFL.
Rush On Mr Outstanding - Put Henson in and lets cement a top 5 pick. It'll gear him up for next season. Charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How do you type and suck your thumb at the same time? Amazing.

[MichaelWinicki]

Of course you didn't see it. That would force you to admit it wasn't working. Try watching just the 2nd quarter. It was a disaster.


Doesn't change anything of what I said. Not a single word. You claimed the 46 was a break off of the 3-4 and it flat out never was and never will be. That's a fact and nothing else you can say on the matter will change that fact. I'll drop this when you have the sack to admit you were wrong.


You're spin doctoring Nors. I have NEVER said stick to any defense, coordinator, scheme, etc. Not once, not ever. Go back and find it. I have sad we don't have the personnel for a 3-4 scheme RIGHT NOW. I have said making that switch qould require a major overhaul. I am not a proponent of the 4-3 defense as you seem to imagine. I am a proponent of good defense. I could give a rat's a** about what scheme. The fact of the matter is you don't have a freaking clue about what you preach.


Show me where I have said this Nors. Bring up one solid point of fact for a change. How you interpret what other people say is nothing short of nonsense. It's really just that simple. If you will take the time to actually read you'll find that I am hoping for Derrick Johnson and think we can get some good LBs after round 1 as well. I am all for upgrading thsi and every position. I have never once in my life advocated standing pat at a position when we can get better. Just because that is your philosophy don't push it on to others Mr. Carter. Any time we can get better at any position I will want it to happen. Book it.


You're a peach man. My 4-3? Yeah right. People are producing evidence that when we ran the 3-4 we stunk out loud, you want to erase that from the picture. Sorry, your myopia will not erase facts. If you want to turn a blind eye to things that's your business. Don't accuse me of it when you can't make it stick.


Boo hoo hoo. Quit blubbering.


Kick the head Coach. There isn't a single fan in here who had anythign to do with it. Whine and cry to teh right people. Spare us this need for a pacifier.


If the team is not responding when the actual QB play is better then maybe they need to be cut too. Blame the right people.


Myy, how quickly you turn on your own opinions and act like they aren't yours. Just weeks ago, George was our salvation. Now it was a guy who last year you were all over too. Living in the past make you feel better?


AdamJT13 is a poster on a message board not Jiminy Cricket to Jerry Jones' wallet.


How do you type and suck your thumb at the same time? Amazing.

My God Hos old buddy I think Nors had made you snap...

But you did make some good points.

[MichaelWinicki]

I didn't see us playing the 3-4 more than 6-8 plays last game. And it mostly worked or THEY RAN at it. It was the 4-3 getting no pressure and giving up the big plays.

Its lost on you odd man front and bringing multiple players into the box with many up and moving around. Causing confusion and the ability to blitz from many different angles. The 4-6 is no longer relevant as it was knocked out of existence by multiple wide formations :rolleyes:

Theories - thats BS - in fact We don't have personnel to run 4-3, lets stick with Zimmy's 4-3 as its #1, yes - #1 rated D was the mantra. Hell no, we don't need a RCB. The Law trade was a huge miscalculation by Boy Wonder and Superman.

We are all set at LB's! No change needed there. Al Singleton is undersized and sux. Maybe trading Coak was the way to ga, eh? Time to add impact LB's!

I still stand by moving to having ability to play 3-4. If that means getting personell. So freakin be it. We have 5 turnovers all season and are ranked #28 in the League. Thats all on yours 4-3, Don't try and spin that at 3-4 - LOL

Our Scouting department, player personnell and GM all need to be fired! See past 10 years as evidence. Even Parcells can't get by with this talent. 2004 draft right up there with 96/97/00/01! Free agent and drafting a colossal failure in that decade of work.

We were a better TEAM last year!

Cutting Carter was a MISTAKE. 7-2 at this juncture last year. This is a team sport and the team is not responding to the new leaders.

Hambrick was a better RB than the Lee/George/Anderson Tailback stuffed animal.

Isn't it neat we are $5M under cap! Doesn't Adam have a cute trick we can give our current players money and "sneak" Cap money in! WOOOHOOOO

Drew Henson to the Horror of all is not ready to play in the NFL.
Rush On Mr Outstanding - Put Henson in and lets cement a top 5 pick. It'll gear him up for next season. Charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nors... all you did was beat the "Eddie George" drum.

Now he sucks.

Welcome to the "GROEG" club Norsy!

[Nors]

George weeks ago was our only solution.

In fact the only game we've won in a month and a half featured pounding him in there. At that point the season was not lost.

Season now lost, all bets off.

3-4 is brewing and coming. The entire board other than a few was mesmerized by the #1 D last year and this great 4-3 D youthought you HAD.

Fact is it sucks, creates no turnovers and creates no pressure and is #28 in the league now.

[Nors]

"We don't need a RCB"

Hows that working out!

[MichaelWinicki]

George weeks ago was our only solution.

In fact the only game we've won in a month and a half featured pounding him in there. At that point the season was not lost.

Season now lost, all bets off.

3-4 is brewing and coming. The entire board other than a few was mesmerized by the #1 D last year and this great 4-3 D youthought you HAD.

Fact is it sucks, creates no turnovers and creates no pressure and is #28 in the league now.


Yeah I remember that 31 carries for 99 yards.

Even I could have gotten 100 on 31 carries.

[MichaelWinicki]

"We don't need a RCB"

Hows that working out!


Yeah, I notice how well Law is playing this year...

It would have been really neat paying him all that money to hang around the infirmary.

[Hostile]

"We don't need a RCB"

Hows that working out!
When did I ever say that Nors? Provide a link.

[MichaelWinicki]

When did I ever say that Nors? Provide a link.


He "knew" what you really meant... :D

[Hostile]

George weeks ago was our only solution.

In fact the only game we've won in a month and a half featured pounding him in there. At that point the season was not lost.

Season now lost, all bets off.

3-4 is brewing and coming. The entire board other than a few was mesmerized by the #1 D last year and this great 4-3 D youthought you HAD.

Fact is it sucks, creates no turnovers and creates no pressure and is #28 in the league now.
I notice you did nothing to even attempt to refute anything I brought up. Not a single thing. Not that I am surprised.

[Hostile]

He "knew" what you really meant... :D
Another Nostadamus? Beautiful.

Roast for dinner.

[MichaelWinicki]

I notice you did nothing to even attempt to refute anything I brought up. Not a single thing. Not that I am surprised.


And you expected him to?

Hos... you silly man you!

[Hostile]

And you expected him to?

Hos... you silly man you!
Color me crazy, I still believe that when you take a stance on something you ought to have the grapefruits to back up your stance.

Not my problem if he likes looking like a eunuch.

[Nors]

Nors... all you did was beat the "Eddie George" drum.

Now he sucks.

Welcome to the "GROEG" club Norsy!


It was to be a 1-2 punch with our Stud Jules Jones. How was I to know in June that Milk Jones was an osteoperosis victim? Only once has Parcells committed to George as feature back and he went 99.

George is not the problem with this team at 3-6 point.

[Nors]

Yeah, I notice how well Law is playing this year...

It would have been really neat paying him all that money to hang around the infirmary.

Law or the other CB I wanted WINFIELD MAJOR UPGRADES!
But not going RCB blew up in your Faces.

Cut the not answering crap. Some people can't sit on the computer 24/7 like you two do.

Computer tough guys - oooohhhhhh

Post of the week "We don't need a RCB" :confused: HAHA
U funny

[Nors]

When did I ever say that Nors? Provide a link.

The mods abilities - priceless

[Hostile]

The mods abilities - priceless
What Mod abilities?

You maintained I claimed we were set at RCB. I am maintaining I have NEVER said that.

The burden of proof is upon you since you made the accusation. Prove it. Go into my profile click the link called "find all posts by" and find the proof.

If you are maintaining I have edited a post where I said this provide the link. It will clearly showed "edited by Hostile" and a time and date stamp. Without that as even circumstantial evidence you have no case.

You tossed out an accusation, placed it right at my doorstep, and you cannot prove it as usual.

Just like the 46 being a product of a 3-4. When are you going to have the sack to admit you were wrong on that one? I am still waiting for you to show me where any one of Dent, Hampton, Perry, or McMichael played as a LB for even 1 play. Which one played LB Nors? That was the front 4 of the 46. Show your evidence. Wow me or admit you were completley off base....again.

[Nors]

On first - I know
Just like the 46 being a product of a 3-4. When are you going to have the sack to admit you were wrong on that one? I am still waiting for you to show me where any one of Dent, Hampton, Perry, or McMichael played as a LB for even 1 play. Which one played LB Nors? That was the front 4 of the 46. Show your evidence. Wow me or admit you were completley off base....again.[/QUOTE]

All I ever said was the 4-6 had attributes similar to a 3-4. Move on. Its all about having guys up in the box moving all around. Unpredictable and aggressive.

You asked for and love the 4-3 - you got it. A nice and cute cover 2 version. Its beautifull man!

[Hostile]

On first - I know
Just like the 46 being a product of a 3-4. When are you going to have the sack to admit you were wrong on that one? I am still waiting for you to show me where any one of Dent, Hampton, Perry, or McMichael played as a LB for even 1 play. Which one played LB Nors? That was the front 4 of the 46. Show your evidence. Wow me or admit you were completley off base....again.

All I ever said was the 4-6 had attributes similar to a 3-4. Move on. Its all about having guys up in the box moving all around. Unpredictable and aggressive.

You asked for and love the 4-3 - you got it. A nice and cute cover 2 version. Its beautifull man!
It's real simple Nors.

You were wrong on the 46.

You accused me of not wanting a RCB and were also wrong again.

You are completely incapable of proving either claim because you have no evidence versus a mountain of evidence on my side.

Like I said, it is simple...You Were Wrong. 100% Wrong.

The sooner you can admit that the better you will look. By all means continue to look foolish if you wish. You're quite good at it.

[MichaelWinicki]

Law or the other CB I wanted WINFIELD MAJOR UPGRADES!
But not going RCB blew up in your Faces.

Cut the not answering crap. Some people can't sit on the computer 24/7 like you two do.

Computer tough guys - oooohhhhhh

Post of the week "We don't need a RCB" :confused: HAHA
U funny


Nors... you make me laugh! Seriously!

Come'on you have almost as many posts as I do!

"Computer tough guys"... that's good.

[Hostile]

Hos, you're nothing more than a "computer tough guy". I've heard about folks like you. :D
Old monitors make great dumbells for curls.

[MichaelWinicki]

It's real simple Nors.

You were wrong on the 46.

You accused me of not wanting a RCB and were also wrong again.

You are completely incapable of proving either claim because you have no evidence versus a mountain of evidence on my side.

Like I said, it is simple...You Were Wrong. 100% Wrong.

The sooner you can admit that the better you will look. By all means continue to look foolish if you wish. You're quite good at it.


I've heard about you "computer toughs". :D

[ravidubey]

Larry has not been a tackle for quite some time and has only played in one Superbowl, not two. But Downs is right about Allen; he's been the one guy Dallas can count on to be consistent.

[Nors]

Larry has not been a tackle for quite some time and has only played in one Superbowl, not two. But Downs is right about Allen; he's been the one guy Dallas can count on to be consistent.

Team MVP's

Witten and Allen. Our tough guy 4-3 D totally sux.

[ravidubey]

Team MVP's

Witten and Allen. Our tough guy 4-3 D totally sux.

We don't have the personnel to run either the 4-3 or 3-4, IMO! Our front seven has been between horrible and average since 1997. Who cares if they can chase down runs to the outside when they can't dominate a game, rush the passer, cover TE's, or stop powerful running between the tackles!

Darren Woodson has been hugely valuable over the years; this season has put an exclamation point after that statement!

[davidyee]

Law or the other CB I wanted WINFIELD MAJOR UPGRADES!
But not going RCB blew up in your Faces.

Cut the not answering crap. Some people can't sit on the computer 24/7 like you two do.

Computer tough guys - oooohhhhhh

Post of the week "We don't need a RCB" :confused: HAHA
U funny

What the hell are you doing here? Good lord, if it pisses you off so much to watch this team then stop watching and stop coming here.

I noticed in Adam's posting that all he did was break down some plays in the game. What's the big deal to you? If you felt his breakdown was incorrect you're welcome to go to the tape and refute his version.

You need to find a more constructive version of yourself here what were are seeing is childish.

[Waffle]

The Law trade was a huge miscalculation by Boy Wonder and Superman.There is ZERO EVIDENCE that the Cowboys and Patriots even discussed a Law trade this off season. None. It doesn't mean they didn't...there is just no evidence that they did. If I say the sky is pink, it doesn't make it so. I am respectfully asking that you never mention Ty Law again until you answer why you think Bill Belichek and Scott Pioli, your own self-proclaimed dream team of scouting, did not extend Ty Law's contract?

It is my contention that Law, a thirtysomething CB who's skills and and ability to stay healthy are now an issue, was not extended a contract by BB and SP because of his age and their belief that he's past his prime. So instead of extending his contract to relieve his $10 million cap figure, I believe they are biting the bullet now and absorbing his cap hit in the short term because his days are numbered in New England. This means less "dead money" for them when he's released/traded. What's your take?

You might be shocked, but I actually agree with you that New England should trade him to somebody, ASAP. But he's probably going to get cut just like they did Milloy and he'll become an UFA because of his salary. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a FA incentive laden contract where a majority of his money is based on playing time and his production...I think we could live with that. Anyone who thinks he's worth a first round draft pick is in a fantasyland in my opinion.

We paid the price, but Jerry learned from the Joey Galloway trade and he doesn't want to repeat a colossal mistake like that again. The days of trading first round picks for cap busting, injury prone, thirtysomething players that play skill positions based on speed are hopefully over for the Cowboys.

[Nors]

There is ZERO EVIDENCE that the Cowboys and Patriots even discussed a Law trade this off season. None. It doesn't mean they didn't...there is just no evidence that they did. If I say the sky is pink, it doesn't make it so. I am respectfully asking that you never mention Ty Law again until you answer why you think Bill Belichek and Scott Pioli, your own self-proclaimed dream team of scouting, did not extend Ty Law's contract?

It is my contention that Law, a thirtysomething CB who's skills and and ability to stay healthy are now an issue, was not extended a contract by BB and SP because of his age and their belief that he's past his prime. So instead of extending his contract to relieve his $10 million cap figure, I believe they are biting the bullet now and absorbing his cap hit in the short term because his days are numbered in New England. This means less "dead money" for them when he's released/traded. What's your take?

You might be shocked, but I actually agree with you that New England should trade him to somebody, ASAP. But he's probably going to get cut just like they did Milloy and he'll become an UFA because of his salary. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a FA incentive laden contract where a majority of his money is based on playing time and his production...I think we could live with that. Anyone who thinks he's worth a first round draft pick is in a fantasyland in my opinion.

We paid the price, but Jerry learned from the Joey Galloway trade and he doesn't want to repeat a colossal mistake like that again. The days of trading first round picks for cap busting, injury prone, thirtysomething players that play skill positions based on speed are hopefully over for the Cowboys.

If they can win with Earth Wind and Fire and the Gay guy at corner. Maybe Law is freed up for us in 2005! at no cost.

[Waffle]

If they can win with Earth Wind and Fire and the Gay guy at corner. Maybe Law is freed up for us in 2005! at no cost.
"No cost" is good. Now we're talking, Nors!!

[MichaelWinicki]

If they can win with Earth Wind and Fire and the Gay guy at corner. Maybe Law is freed up for us in 2005! at no cost.


BTW, Winfield at 6 years for $34 million dollars would have been an expensive upgrade for a guy that hasn't even had a "wiff" of a pro-bowl.

If Bill himself has inferred that he wasn't worth it.

[MichaelWinicki]

"No cost" is good. Now we're talking, Nors!!


"No Cost" IS good.