View Full Version : Rolling Stone John McCain Article
This is a really interesting article. I like how instead of nonsense they actually did some research, spoke to other heros in our armed forces and not some politicized sources. This guy John Dramesi sounds fascinating, anyone know more about him?
Rolling Stone John Mccain article (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain)
No responses? That's surprising. This was a really well written article that harkens back to the day when Rolling Stone didn't have cell phone ringer rankings in its back pages.
I know its long, but its all based on people he served with, went to school with, etc...a good read.
CowboyPrincess
10-19-2008, 06:56 PM
No responses? That's surprising. This was a really well written article that harkens back to the day when Rolling Stone didn't have cell phone ringer rankings in its back pages.
I know its long, but its all based on people he served with, went to school with, etc...a good read.
Make-Believe Maverick - That title alone made me not read it. I'm not going to waste my time reading something from Rolling Stone magazine that is diss'ing a true American hero. Whether you like his politics or not, he did serve his country proudly and paid a physical cost for it..
Now... If they wanna do an article on a musician like Jon Bon Jovi... thats a whole other story all together. Just hope they include lots of pics of that hottie
Sasquatch
10-19-2008, 07:37 PM
Make-Believe Maverick Whether you like his politics or not, he did serve his country proudly and paid a physical cost for it.
The title seems to take issue with McCain branding himself politically as a "maverick." Not sure what it has to do with his military service although the rest of the article does portray him in a rather unflattering light.
Furthermore, where was this high-mindedness when republican partisans denigrated John Kerry's military service four years ago?
Sasquatch
10-19-2008, 07:40 PM
a good read.
A very interesting portrait indeed.
CowboyPrincess
10-19-2008, 07:52 PM
The title seems to take issue with McCain branding himself politically as a "maverick." Not sure what it has to do with his military service although the rest of the article does portray him in a rather unflattering light.
Furthermore, where was this high-mindedness when republican partisans denigrated John Kerry's military service four years ago?
The fact that you would question me about John Kerry shows me that you aren't familiar with how he personally affected my life.
I really don't wanna get into the John Kerry thing again... I despise the man for what he did to his fellow soldiers- one being my late husband. I watched his words destroy several vets. Maybe he wouldn't have been denigrated if he had finished his service honorably. He brought that on himself
That's all I want to say about John Kerry. If you wanna debate him, look in the achieves for my posts about him cuz I'm not going there again. He's not worth another second of my time
Done
Sasquatch
10-19-2008, 10:32 PM
Maybe he wouldn't have been denigrated if he had finished his service honorably.
The man served his country at a time when many shirked their responsibilities. People can either respect that or not. It has nothing to do with his politics.
JRid21
10-20-2008, 01:29 AM
The title seems to take issue with McCain branding himself politically as a "maverick." Not sure what it has to do with his military service although the rest of the article does portray him in a rather unflattering light.
Furthermore, where was this high-mindedness when republican partisans denigrated John Kerry's military service four years ago?
I don't support McCain or Obama but I'm pretty sure McCain defended Kerry on Vietnam during the 2004 election
Heisenberg
10-20-2008, 01:32 AM
I don't support McCain or Obama but I'm pretty sure McCain defended Kerry on Vietnam during the 2004 election
If I'm not mistaken, Kerry asked McCain to be his running mate in 2004. They're pretty good friends or at least they were. I have no idea at the moment.
JRid21
10-20-2008, 02:12 AM
If I'm not mistaken, Kerry asked McCain to be his running mate in 2004. They're pretty good friends or at least they were. I have no idea at the moment.
It was rumored Kerry wanted him to be his running mate, however I'm pretty sure McCain has said on several occasions he would have declined. I'm also almost positive Kerry didn't want John Edwards as his running mate, at least according to Bob Shrum anyway. He said Kerry wanted to choose Dick Gephardt.
masomenos
10-20-2008, 02:27 AM
It was rumored Kerry wanted him to be his running mate, however I'm pretty sure McCain has said on several occasions he would have declined. I'm also almost positive Kerry didn't want John Edwards as his running mate, at least according to Bob Shrum anyway. He said Kerry wanted to choose Dick Gephardt.
Kerry wanted Hephardt. Bush got Cheney. Everyone wanted a Dick.
It makes me wonder if Larry Craig didn't just get confused.
Make-Believe Maverick - That title alone made me not read it. I'm not going to waste my time reading something from Rolling Stone magazine that is diss'ing a true American hero. Whether you like his politics or not, he did serve his country proudly and paid a physical cost for it..
Now... If they wanna do an article on a musician like Jon Bon Jovi... thats a whole other story all together. Just hope they include lots of pics of that hottie
First of all Rolling Stone has a history of impressive news articles. True today its a pop-culture big business rag just like any media based publication not named the Economist of Financial Times, etc....but every news outlet in this country is a joke from CNN to Fox to MSNBC...I mean look how they attacked this "Joe the Plumber" character but yet a VP candidate has not even been pursued for open questions (i.e. press conference). I don't care what side you vote for (or think the two party warfare is stupid like me) that's just scary and emblematic of why our nation is in the mess we are in. Big business controls our brains via the MSM.
Secondly, if you don't read something based on the title alone, that seems really short-sighted, does it not? I'm not trying to insult you at all, and I hope you don't take it that way. I'm just saying with any topic, to not read something because of its title doesn't seem like the best approach. That's like a Christian not reading the Bible because its called the Torah.
And its not like its some yokel "dissing a true American hero" it talks to for example, a fellow POW, a fellow hero, and his military peers. You know people not named Hannity or Olbermann just spouting out their own bs.
Finally, I completely agree with your statement: "Whether you like his politics or not, he did serve his country proudly and paid a physical cost for it.."
I never said anything contrary. I actually liked old McCain as he was more in the center and not selling his soul out (which it talks about in this article you refuse to read) But that has nothing to do with someone running for the highest executive office, Going through a tragedy should not absolve anyone from scrutiny, particularly in this case.
I am sorry to hear about your husband, that is a tremendous sacrifice and loss. I'm sad to know its happening to more families now as well.
Danny White
10-20-2008, 10:03 AM
Wow, that was a scathing article.
There's a lot of garbage, editorializing and psychobabble in there, but some pretty good insight as well.
It said some things that I've always felt about McCain. I've never bought into his "maverick" and "straight talk" schtick. He's always been out for himself first and foremost.
Some lines that nailed it, I believe:
... It is the story of a man who has consistently put his own advancement above all else, a man willing to say and do anything to achieve his ultimate ambition: to become commander in chief...
"John McCain made his reputation on the fact that he doesn't bend his principles for politics. That's just not true."
He was my last choice among Republicans to get the nomination... that said, he's a much much better option than Obama. If anyone ever put Obama's life under the same microscope that the Rolling Stone author just put McCain's under... it would likely shock a lot of people as well.
Wow, that was a scathing article.
There's a lot of garbage, editorializing and psychobabble in there, but some pretty good insight as well.
It said some things that I've always felt about McCain. I've never bought into his "maverick" and "straight talk" schtick. He's always been out for himself first and foremost.
Some lines that nailed it, I believe:
He was my last choice among Republicans to get the nomination... that said, he's a much much better option than Obama. If anyone ever put Obama's life under the same microscope that the Rolling Stone author just put McCain's under... it would likely shock a lot of people as well.
I'm sure you are correct there too. I don't know how much of what he's selling himself as he is just flatly lying on, but I figure for any of these people to get to where they are, they've got some skeletons in their closet.
The McCain article was enlightening in terms of what some of his peers said. i.e. party/fly boy, out of himself, living off of his parents name. Man, maybe his is like GW Bush, haha.
When it came down to these two as possible president, I felt okay, just glad it wasn't Guliani (police state) or Huckabee (religious state) or Romney (rich get much richer). I was a big Paul backer. But the Palin choice...for those people saying Obama is un-American or whatever, they are just basing that on some reaches...I mean she was the key note speaker at a secessionist party's meeting, and said she agreed with them. And her husband has spit out some bs about our country. Combine that with the fact that I do personally feel intelligence should be a criteria, and 5 colleges, a community college, a sportscaster, and really the garbage that has come out of her mouth as really turned me off of that ticket. She could have had all that other stuff in her past (minus the secessionist stuff) and if she spoke intelligently about various subjects I'd be okay. But she just scares me. I could see her becoming of tool of big religion.
Sasquatch
10-20-2008, 11:58 AM
Collin Powell is supporting Obama despite knowing McCain for 25 years. I wonder if he sees in McCain many of the personality flaws touched upon by the article.
Maikeru-sama
10-20-2008, 12:01 PM
Personally, I think if you participate in something, whether it is something as trivial as the NFL or something as serious as serving your country, that it definately gives you a right to criticize.
John Kerry was in vietnam and fought for his country. Even though it offended alot of people, since he served, he had every right to speak his mind about the war effort.
ConcordCowboy
10-20-2008, 06:02 PM
After reading that...I'm even more convinced that Obama is the better man to be President.
Danny White
10-20-2008, 07:14 PM
After reading that...I'm even more convinced that Obama is the better man to be President.
If you wrote an article about Obama from that same hyper-critical perspective, looking for the most negative take possible at every possible turn, it would go something like this:
Barack Obama, born in Indonesia, was educated in a Madrassa where he learned the finer points of jihad. He was recruited for several suicide bombings, but he backed out at the last minute due to extreme cowardice. He then fled to the United States where he changed his name to "Barry" and played basketball in high school. Although he claims to have been a star, records show that he was, in reality, a bench warmer who fouled out of every game he ever played in.
After attending several Ivy League schools, where he was rumored to have engaged in heavy drug use and possible homosexual acts, Obama moved to Chicago. There he planned terrorist attacks with former Weather Underground leader William Ayers and engaged in massive voter fraud as the lead attorney for the radical organization ACORN.
He then quickly rose to political power by stabbing former allies in the back and accepting illegal campaign donations from the likes of Ayers and Tony Rezko. After planting salacious rumors concerning his Senate opponent, Jack Ryan, Obama managed to win election by similarly threatening similar smears against former football great Mike Ditka.
Since his election, Obama has missed almost every single vote cast in the U.S. Senate. Of those votes he has cast, he has clearly emerged as the most liberal member in this history of the United States. He also is rumored to have assisted in several partial birth abortions -- many of which he was likely the illegitimate father of.
So, how would you feel about Obama after reading a hatchet-job like that?
masomenos
10-20-2008, 07:22 PM
If you wrote an article about Obama from that same hyper-critical perspective, looking for the most negative take possible at every possible turn, it would go something like this:
Barack Obama, born in Indonesia, was educated in a Madrassa where he learned the finer points of jihad. He was recruited for several suicide bombings, but he backed out at the last minute due to extreme cowardice. He then fled to the United States where he changed his name to "Barry" and played basketball in high school. Although he claims to have been a star, records show that he was, in reality, a bench warmer who fouled out of every game he ever played in.
After attending several Ivy League schools, where he was rumored to have engaged in heavy drug use and possible homosexual acts, Obama moved to Chicago. There he planned terrorist attacks with former Weather Underground leader William Ayers and engaged in massive voter fraud as the lead attorney for the radical organization ACORN.
He then quickly rose to political power by stabbing former allies in the back and accepting illegal campaign donations from the likes of Ayers and Tony Rezko. After planting salacious rumors concerning his Senate opponent, Jack Ryan, Obama managed to win election by similarly threatening similar smears against former football great Mike Ditka.
Since his election, Obama has missed almost every single vote cast in the U.S. Senate. Of those votes he has cast, he has clearly emerged as the most liberal member in this history of the United States. He also is rumored to have assisted in several partial birth abortions -- many of which he was likely the illegitimate father of.So, how would you feel about Obama after reading a hatchet-job like that?
Well put. Rolling Stone, while sometimes entertaining, is wildly liberal. There was an entertaining article on Bush back in '04 though, it was a satirical piece describing what he really did during the "unaccounted" National Guard time.
Spoiler alert: He was a spy.
ConcordCowboy
10-20-2008, 09:18 PM
If you wrote an article about Obama from that same hyper-critical perspective, looking for the most negative take possible at every possible turn, it would go something like this:
Barack Obama, born in Indonesia, was educated in a Madrassa where he learned the finer points of jihad. He was recruited for several suicide bombings, but he backed out at the last minute due to extreme cowardice. He then fled to the United States where he changed his name to "Barry" and played basketball in high school. Although he claims to have been a star, records show that he was, in reality, a bench warmer who fouled out of every game he ever played in.
After attending several Ivy League schools, where he was rumored to have engaged in heavy drug use and possible homosexual acts, Obama moved to Chicago. There he planned terrorist attacks with former Weather Underground leader William Ayers and engaged in massive voter fraud as the lead attorney for the radical organization ACORN.
He then quickly rose to political power by stabbing former allies in the back and accepting illegal campaign donations from the likes of Ayers and Tony Rezko. After planting salacious rumors concerning his Senate opponent, Jack Ryan, Obama managed to win election by similarly threatening similar smears against former football great Mike Ditka.
Since his election, Obama has missed almost every single vote cast in the U.S. Senate. Of those votes he has cast, he has clearly emerged as the most liberal member in this history of the United States. He also is rumored to have assisted in several partial birth abortions -- many of which he was likely the illegitimate father of.
So, how would you feel about Obama after reading a hatchet-job like that?
After reading that...I'm even more convinced that Obama is the better man to be President.
:p:
MetalHead
10-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Rolling Stone Rag...
The despicable publication that is pro-everything that is wrong with this country?
The same rag that is so pro Obama they can't even hide it(Obama in their cover,zero words...look it up)?
Do you expect an unbiased article from that dumpster liner?
MetalHead
10-20-2008, 09:37 PM
Personally, I think if you participate in something, whether it is something as trivial as the NFL or something as serious as serving your country, that it definately gives you a right to criticize.
John Kerry was in vietnam and fought for his country. Even though it offended alot of people, since he served, he had every right to speak his mind about the war effort.
It's not that plain and simple.
I'm a veteran,and I'll never do what Kerry did.
Serving your country does not entitle you to act up like that.
Sasquatch
10-20-2008, 10:19 PM
It's not that plain and simple.
I'm a veteran,and I'll never do what Kerry did.
Serving your country does not entitle you to act up like that.
It wasn't just Kerry. Thousands of vets supported him. You just throw them under the bus because they don't follow your political orthodoxy?
Maikeru-sama
10-20-2008, 10:23 PM
It wasn't just Kerry. Thousands of vets supported him. You just throw them under the bus because they don't follow your political orthodoxy?
Yep.
Why would anyone care what people who dodged the draft had to say about Vietnam?
John Kerry had a right to say what he did, he was there, he served his country and felt compelled to speak out against it.
Yeah, it rubbed people the wrong way but I don't won't to hear people like Bush, a guy who didn't fight, try to label the guy as Anti-American.
Danny White
10-20-2008, 10:26 PM
After reading that...I'm even more convinced that Obama is the better man to be President.
:p:
Why do I get the idea that Obama could take a dump in a box and show it to you and it would make you more convinced that he's the better man to be President?
ConcordCowboy
10-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Why do I get the idea that Obama could take a dump in a box and show it to you and it would make you more convinced that he's the better man to be President?
Lighten Up Francis.
Danny White
10-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Lighten Up Francis.
Hey, I'm footloose and fancy-free...
Sounds like I may have hit a nerve, though.
masomenos
10-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Rolling Stone Rag...
The despicable publication that is pro-everything that is wrong with this country?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think is wrong with this country? Honest question, no strings. I'd be inclined to agree that Rolling Stone, and media in general, do more harm than good, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.
Danny White
10-20-2008, 11:37 PM
Just out of curiosity, what do you think is wrong with this country? Honest question, no strings. I'd be inclined to agree that Rolling Stone, and media in general, do more harm than good, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.
:p:
http://staging.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/rollingstone2.jpg
masomenos
10-20-2008, 11:38 PM
Hey, I'm footloose and fancy-free...
Sounds like I may have hit a nerve, though.
nwBbMXYDsXw
Sorry, just had to try the new embedding feature :D
masomenos
10-20-2008, 11:39 PM
:p:
http://staging.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/rollingstone2.jpg
What's wrong with Michael Moore? The guy's an American hero in my eyes, did you ever see...
I'm sorry, I can't keep a straight face
:laugh2:
Danny White
10-20-2008, 11:40 PM
nwBbMXYDsXw
Sorry, just had to try the new embedding feature :D
Pretty much sums up my entire 4 years in high school in rural Oregon.
Viper
10-20-2008, 11:45 PM
Personally, I think if you participate in something, whether it is something as trivial as the NFL or something as serious as serving your country, that it definately gives you a right to criticize.
John Kerry was in vietnam and fought for his country. Even though it offended alot of people, since he served, he had every right to speak his mind about the war effort.
I think Kerry , as well as any American had a right to speak against the war. What he didn't have a right to do is lie. What he didn't have a right to do was try to negotiate with the enemy.
JRid21
10-21-2008, 02:56 AM
What's wrong with Michael Moore? The guy's an American hero in my eyes, did you ever see...
I'm sorry, I can't keep a straight face
:laugh2:
I don't like a lot about Michael Moore but some of the stuff the guy does is pretty cool and I'm sure he's a decent man. That whole Westboro Baptist Church thing he did was very funny and as bad as it is to say it well deserved. Anyone ever seen the video of it?
masomenos
10-21-2008, 03:26 AM
I don't like a lot about Michael Moore but some of the stuff the guy does is pretty cool and I'm sure he's a decent man. That whole Westboro Baptist Church thing he did was very funny and as bad as it is to say it well deserved. Anyone ever seen the video of it?
I didn't see the Westboro Church video, but I'm sure Moore reamed them and deservedly so. The guys movies are always so one sided though and that's not something that I can really appreciate from a film maker. I thought that Bowling for Columbine was pretty informative and worth watching but Fahrenheit 9/11 was little more than attack job. I didn't see Sicko but I've always meant to get around to it.
I think Kerry , as well as any American had a right to speak against the war. What he didn't have a right to do is lie. What he didn't have a right to do was try to negotiate with the enemy.
or throw other soldiers under the bus to benefit his political career...but that is an entirely different subject obviously
JRid21
10-21-2008, 04:22 AM
I didn't see the Westboro Church video, but I'm sure Moore reamed them and deservedly so. The guys movies are always so one sided though and that's not something that I can really appreciate from a film maker. I thought that Bowling for Columbine was pretty informative and worth watching but Fahrenheit 9/11 was little more than attack job. I didn't see Sicko but I've always meant to get around to it.
That is one of my biggest problems with him, most of what he does is one sided. I'll find you the link and post it if it isn't against the rules. It is absolutely hilarious.
ConcordCowboy
10-21-2008, 08:01 AM
Hey, I'm footloose and fancy-free...
Sounds like I may have hit a nerve, though.
No I just find it hilarious that a man who thinks Palin would be the best choice to be President out of the four people still in this race questions my judgment on who I'd pick to be President.
:laugh2:
Danny White
10-21-2008, 09:50 AM
No I just find it hilarious that a man who thinks Palin would be the best choice to be President out of the four people still in this race questions my judgment on who I'd pick to be President.
:laugh2:
To each his own, I suppose.
I'm happy to have Palin representing my values in this election, and I assume you're happy to have Obama representing yours.
ConcordCowboy
10-21-2008, 10:43 AM
To each his own, I suppose.
I'm happy to have Palin representing my values in this election, and I assume you're happy to have Obama representing yours.
I don't think that's ever been in question.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.