Blistering Rock Music Used in Prisons to 'Break' Inmates

[Rowdy]

Musicians Protest Blistering Music Used in Prisons to 'Break' Inmates

Sept. 4, 2007: A guard tower of Camp Delta is seen at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Station in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba — Blaring from a speaker behind a metal grate in his tiny cell in Iraq, the blistering rock from Nine Inch Nails hit Prisoner No. 200343 like a sonic bludgeon.

"Stains like the blood on your teeth," Trent Reznor snarled over distorted guitars. "Bite. Chew."

The auditory assault went on for days, then weeks, then months at the U.S. military detention center in Iraq. Twenty hours a day. AC/DC. Queen. Pantera. The prisoner, military contractor Donald Vance of Chicago, told The Associated Press he was soon suicidal.

The tactic has been common in the U.S. war on terror, with forces systematically using loud music on hundreds of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, then the U.S. military commander in Iraq, authorized it on Sept. 14, 2003, "to create fear, disorient ... and prolong capture shock."


Now the detainees aren't the only ones complaining. Musicians are banding together to demand the U.S. military stop using their songs as weapons.

A campaign being launched Wednesday has brought together groups including Massive Attack and musicians such as Tom Morello, who played with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave and is now on a solo tour. It will feature minutes of silence during concerts and festivals, said Chloe Davies of the British law group Reprieve, which represents dozens of Guantanamo Bay detainees and is organizing the campaign.

At least Vance, who says he was jailed for reporting illegal arms sales, was used to rock music. For many detainees who grew up in Afghanistan — where music was prohibited under Taliban rule — interrogations by U.S. forces marked their first exposure to the pounding rhythms, played at top volume.

The experience was overwhelming for many. Binyam Mohammed, now a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay, said men held with him at the CIA's "Dark Prison" in Afghanistan wound up screaming and smashing their heads against walls, unable to endure more.


"There was loud music, (Eminem's) 'Slim Shady' and Dr. Dre for 20 days. I heard this nonstop over and over," he told his lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith. "The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night for the months before I left. Plenty lost their minds."

Rear Adm. David Thomas, the commander of Guantanamo's detention center, said the music treatment is not currently used at Guantanamo but added that he could not rule out its use in the future.

"I couldn't speculate and I wouldn't speculate but I can tell you it doesn't happen here at Guantanamo and it hasn't happened since I've been here," Thomas, who has been at Guantanamo for a half-year, told AP.

The spokeswoman for Guantanamo's detention center, Navy Cmdr. Pauline Storum, wouldn't give details of when and how music has been used at the prison.

FBI agents stationed at Guantanamo Bay reported numerous instances in which music was blasted at detainees, saying they were "told such tactics were common there."

According to an FBI memo, one interrogator at Guantanamo Bay bragged he needed only four days to "break" someone by alternating 16 hours of music and lights with four hours of silence and darkness.

Ruhal Ahmed, a Briton who was captured in Afghanistan, describes excruciating sessions at Guantanamo Bay. He said his hands were shackled to his feet, which were shackled to the floor, forcing him into a painful squat for periods of up to two days.

"You're in agony," Ahmed, who was released without charge in 2004, told Reprieve. He said the agony was compounded when music was introduced, because "before you could actually concentrate on something else, try to make yourself focus on some other things in your life that you did before and take that pain away.

"It makes you feel like you are going mad," he said.

Not all of the music is hard rock. Christopher Cerf, who wrote music for "Sesame Street," said he was horrified to learn songs from the children's TV show were used in interrogations.

"I wouldn't want my music to be a party to that," he told AP.

Bob Singleton, whose song "I Love You" is beloved by legions of preschool Barney fans, wrote in a newspaper opinion column that any music can become unbearable if played loudly for long stretches.

"It's absolutely ludicrous," he wrote in the Los Angeles Times. "A song that was designed to make little children feel safe and loved was somehow going to threaten the mental state of adults and drive them to the emotional breaking point?"

Morello, of Rage Against the Machine, has been especially forceful in denouncing the practice. During a recent concert in San Francisco, he proposed taking revenge on President George W. Bush.

"I suggest that they level Guantanamo Bay, but they keep one small cell and they put Bush in there ... and they blast some Rage Against the Machine," he said to whoops and cheers.

Some musicians, however, say they're proud that their music is used in interrogations. Those include bassist Stevie Benton, whose group Drowning Pool has performed in Iraq and recorded one of the interrogators' favorites, "Bodies."

"People assume we should be offended that somebody in the military thinks our song is annoying enough that played over and over it can psychologically break someone down," he told Spin magazine. "I take it as an honor to think that perhaps our song could be used to quell another 9/11 attack or something like that."

The band's record label told AP that Benton did not want to comment further. Instead, the band issued a statement reading: "Drowning Pool is committed to supporting the lives and rights of our troops stationed around the world."

Vance, in a telephone interview from Chicago, said the tactic can make innocent men go mad. According to a lawsuit he has filed, his jailers said he was being held because his employer was suspected of selling weapons to terrorists and insurgents. The U.S. military confirms Vance was jailed but won't elaborate because of the lawsuit.

He said he was locked in an overcooled 9-foot-by-9-foot cell that had a speaker with a metal grate over it. Two large speakers stood in the hallway outside. The music was almost constant, mostly hard rock, he said.

"There was a lot of Nine Inch Nails, including 'March of the Pigs,"' he said. "I couldn't tell you how many times I heard Queen's 'We Will Rock You."'

He wore only a jumpsuit and flip-flops and had no protection from the cold.

"I had no blanket or sheet. If I had, I would probably have tried suicide," he said. "I got to a few points toward the end where I thought, `How can I do this?' Actively plotting, `How can I get away with it so they don't stop it?"'

Asked to describe the experience, Vance said: "It sort of removes you from you. You can no longer formulate your own thoughts when you're in an environment like that."

He was released after 97 days. Two years later, he says, "I keep my home very quiet."

[Rowdy]

I think this is one of the worst to hear over and over right here...

Bob Singleton, whose song "I Love You" is beloved by legions of preschool Barney fans, wrote in a newspaper opinion column that any music can become unbearable if played loudly for long stretches.

[Rowdy]

Music Used During U.S. Military Interrogations

U.S. military interrogators have often blasted music at detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. According to the British law group Reprieve, these are among the songs they have used most frequently:

• "Enter Sandman," Metallica.

• "Bodies," Drowning Pool.

• "Shoot to Thrill," AC/DC.

• "Hell's Bells," AC/DC.

• "I Love You," from the "Barney and Friends" children's TV show.

• "Born in the USA," Bruce Springsteen.

• "Babylon," David Gray.

• "White America," Eminem.

• "Sesame Street," theme song from the children's TV show.

Other bands and artists whose music has been frequently played at U.S. detention sites: Aerosmith, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Don McLean, Lil' Kim, Limp Bizkit, Meat Loaf, Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Tupac Shakur.

[BrAinPaiNt]

What no Deicide...I mean if you want to scare them and all. :laugh2:

[iceberg]

disturbed - down with the sickness. :)

[DaBoys4Life]

they should be happy someone is actually buying their crappy music.

[BrAinPaiNt]

they should be happy someone is actually buying their crappy music.

It's the government, they probably did not buy the music...it was probably the soldiers who had it or illegally downloaded it. I seriously doubt the government would even know who some of those bands were.

[Phrozen Phil]

As a musician, I'm appalled to see music used in torture. I'm appalled to see torture used at all. :mad:

[Cajuncowboy]

As a musician, I'm appalled to see music used in torture. I'm appalled to see torture used at all. :mad:

:laugh2:

Maybe we should put them up at the local Hilton hotel and give them manicures and pedicures until they break.

[DaBoys4Life]

It's the government, they probably did not buy the music...it was probably the soldiers who had it or illegally downloaded it. I seriously doubt the government would even know who some of those bands were.

Well then they should be happy that the government is using their music in order to benefit the world silly musicians.
:laugh2:

Maybe we should put them up at the local Hilton hotel and give them manicures and pedicures until they break.

I think thats what Obama is planning to do after he closes Guantanamo Bay.

As a musician, I'm appalled to see music used in torture. I'm appalled to see torture used at all. :mad:

:rolleyes:

[Phrozen Phil]

So how do you think these terrorist should be treated?

That's a fair question. I think that they are prisoners of war and should be afforde to same rights as any other prisoner of war in those circumstances.

[Yeagermeister]

I'd have been rocking along with most of those songs. Now real torture would be having to listen to Britney Spears over and over again. :bang2:

[DaBoys4Life]

That's a fair question. I think that they are prisoners of war and should be afforde to same rights as any other prisoner of war in those circumstances.

.....how do you figure that they're PoW?

[burmafrd]

Terrorists DO NOT DESERVE the same treatment SOLDIERS do. No surprise that you lefties some how think Terrorist equals SOLDIER.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Terrorists DO NOT DESERVE the same treatment SOLDIERS do. No surprise that you lefties some how think Terrorist equals SOLDIER.

Back in the day we called some of the same terrorists....freedom fighters, that was when they were, or currently are, on our side.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'd have been rocking along with most of those songs. Now real torture would be having to listen to Britney Spears over and over again. :bang2:

I think they did that already, or maybe it was that christine argrella (have no clue the girls name or the spelling).

[Phrozen Phil]

Back in the day we called some of the same terrorists....freedom fighters, that was when they were, or currently are, on our side.

I won't deny that it's a challenge, but if you take a prisoner in his own country that you're at war with, then are they not a prisoner of war? If you arrest people in other countries, declare them "enemy combatants", deny them any due process, take them halfway round the world, and then subject them to "waterboarding" or other "enhanced interrogation techniques" then you're just that much closer to a police state.

BP, as you alluded to, history tends to colour our perspective. Before the state of Israel was declared, the Jewish underground took several British Soldiers hostage. Are they now viewed as terrorists? It depends on who's side your on. In any event, when you detain people, you need to be held accountable for their treatment, no matter who you are.

[the kid 05]

What no Deicide...I mean if you want to scare them and all. :laugh2:

lol we want them to stay alive not kill them selfs. what about Six Feet Under?

[jimmy40]

Should use some of DLR's bluegrass. I amost killed myself when someone posted the youtube of that.

[morieeel]

Hmm, lets see which would I prefer.

Terrorist captured by american forces = forced to listen to washed up Rockers at a high decibal.

American prisoner captured by terrorist = mutilation, and wait, make sure too smile for the camera as we amputate your head....

[BrAinPaiNt]

lol we want them to stay alive not kill them selfs. what about Six Feet Under?

I would think they would understand sacrificial suicide from deicide.:laugh1:

How about Obituary and the End Complete.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Hmm, lets see which would I prefer.

Terrorist captured by american forces = forced to listen to washed up Rockers at a high decibal.

American prisoner captured by terrorist = mutilation, and wait, make sure too smile for the camera as we amputate your head....

Good thing we hold ourselves to a higher standard, although I think some wish we would lower ourselves to theirs if they had their way.

[Sasquatch]

Music Used During U.S. Military Interrogations

U.S. military interrogators have often blasted music at detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. According to the British law group Reprieve, these are among the songs they have used most frequently:

• "Enter Sandman," Metallica.

• "Bodies," Drowning Pool.

• "Shoot to Thrill," AC/DC.

• "Hell's Bells," AC/DC.

• "I Love You," from the "Barney and Friends" children's TV show.

• "Born in the USA," Bruce Springsteen.

• "Babylon," David Gray.

• "White America," Eminem.

• "Sesame Street," theme song from the children's TV show.

Other bands and artists whose music has been frequently played at U.S. detention sites: Aerosmith, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Don McLean, Lil' Kim, Limp Bizkit, Meat Loaf, Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Tupac Shakur.

Pretty weak playlist. If you really want to drive people mad play them Golden Dawn by Ministry over and over.

[arglebargle]

This is just the local soldiers administering field punishment. But don't worry; in some think tank somewhere (probably testing in a secret prison in Romania), the CIA is searching for the perfect 'break 'em down' music!

Wonder if the RIAA will be stepping in to require payments for the professional deployment of the music though....

[Phrozen Phil]

This is just the local soldiers administering field punishment. But don't worry; in some think tank somewhere (probably testing in a secret prison in Romania), the CIA is searching for the perfect 'break 'em down' music!

Wonder if the RIAA will be stepping in to require payments for the professional deployment of the music though....

Trust you to find the ulterior motive: Royalties!:laugh1:

[Phrozen Phil]

Hmm, lets see which would I prefer.

Terrorist captured by american forces = forced to listen to washed up Rockers at a high decibal.

American prisoner captured by terrorist = mutilation, and wait, make sure too smile for the camera as we amputate your head....

Let's be clear. Torture by either party is unacceptable. The issue is not the music, but the sleep deprivation and the reusulting trauma. Just have somebody keep you awake for 30 hours against your will and see how you feel.

[Hostile]

Good thing we hold ourselves to a higher standard, although I think some wish we would lower ourselves to theirs if they had their way.That isn't at all what he implied.

[BadWolf]

Let's be clear. Torture by either party is unacceptable. The issue is not the music, but the sleep deprivation and the reusulting trauma. Just have somebody keep you awake for 30 hours against your will and see how you feel.

Sounds like college to me.

[iceberg]

Sounds like college to me.

oh my god - the memories!

"i'm gonna go crash now"
10 minute later KNOCK KNOCK

kidnapped and forced into an evening of partying.

[BrAinPaiNt]

That isn't at all what he implied.

I said some...I did not say you when replying to his post.:cool:

[ninja]

Playing loud music played over and over could do harm? No way, look at today's youth ... never mind.

They should have played Barry Manilow music, better yet videos. Go for the jugular.

Or some Boy George "Do you really want to hurt me?" Ouch!

Now, if they really wanted to do some damage, blast some political speeches from some of today's politicians. Let them listen to Barney Frank with his lisp talking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a couple of hours. Instant capitulation.

Or, make them listen to Oprah. Watching The View would probably fall under cruel and unusual punishment.

And we got plenty of movies to make you vomit. Or just let them walk down Hollywood Blvd and see "it" for themselves.

[morieeel]

Let's be clear. Torture by either party is unacceptable. The issue is not the music, but the sleep deprivation and the reusulting trauma. Just have somebody keep you awake for 30 hours against your will and see how you feel.

Sorry I have no "feel" for terrorist, but by all means feel away if you want....

[Hostile]

I said some...I did not say you when replying to his post.:cool:Why would you say me? I am defending him, not me. He did not imply we should stoop the levels of beheadings.

[MetalHead]

As a musician, I'm appalled to see music used in torture. I'm appalled to see torture used at all. :mad:


:lmao2:

Are you serious?

[ninja]

Let's be clear. Torture by either party is unacceptable. The issue is not the music, but the sleep deprivation and the reusulting trauma. Just have somebody keep you awake for 30 hours against your will and see how you feel.

Are you Canadian? If so, keep your opinions to your other fellow frostbitten Canadians. Must be brain-chilling cold up there in Canada.

If torture saves American lives, I'm for it. I don't give a rat's rear end about some terrorist's feelings.

On 9/11 3000 People will never hear another note of music thanks to those scumbag terrorists. Terrorist sympathizers make me sick.

Sleep depravation? The terrorist can have all the sleep he wants in jail AFTER I get my info.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Why would you say me? I am defending him, not me. He did not imply we should stoop the levels of beheadings.

I said YOU as in the person I was replying to....So if I was replying to someone named Joe I did not say YOU, JOE.

Hope that makes sense.

[adamc91115]

Boohoo... cry me a river. You're a prisoner, suck it up... Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

But anyway, theres a couple decent songs on that list. Whats the problem?

[Phrozen Phil]

Are you Canadian? If so, keep your opinions to your other fellow frostbitten Canadians. Must be brain-chilling cold up there in Canada.

If torture saves American lives, I'm for it. I don't give a rat's rear end about some terrorist's feelings.

On 9/11 3000 People will never hear another note of music thanks to those scumbag terrorists. Terrorist sympathizers make me sick.

Sleep depravation? The terrorist can have all the sleep he wants in jail AFTER I get my info.

I don't believe that you're opinion is shared by a majority of
Americans, but if it was, then it would be obvious why much of the world distrusts the last 8 years of American foreign policy. Lucky for all of us that real change may be coming.

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't believe that you're opinion is shared by a majority of
Americans, but if it was, then it would be obvious why much of the world distrusts the last 8 years of American foreign policy. Lucky for all of us that real change may be coming.

That's right. You sit up there protected by America, knowing full well that if anyone would attack you we would be the first to defend you and yet you could care less about 3000 American lives lost. You are more concerned with not disturbing the precious disposition of the terrorists.

What a joke.

[Cajuncowboy]

Back in the day we called some of the same terrorists....freedom fighters, that was when they were, or currently are, on our side.

Really? How many of those freedom fighters flew planes into our buildings? :rolleyes:

[Cajuncowboy]

:lmao2:

Are you serious?

Unfortunately he is. People like this do exist.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Really? How many of those freedom fighters flew planes into our buildings? :rolleyes:

Or how many freedom fighters were paid/supplied by us only to turn around and attack us. The same group that initiated the plans for the 9/11 attack were initially our unofficial allies against the russians....so there you go.

Furthermore the same people that were killing our soldiers in Iraq are now being paid by us to fight with us.

And the same dictator that we took out a few years ago was also supported, to some extent, by us.

So roll your eyes all you want.

[Cajuncowboy]

Or how many freedom fighters were paid/supplied by us only to turn around and attack us. The same group that initiated the plans for the 9/11 attack were initially our unofficial allies against the russians....so there you go.

Furthermore the same people that were killing our soldiers in Iraq are now being paid by us to fight with us.

And the same dictator that we took out a few years ago was also supported, to some extent, by us.

So roll your eyes all you want.

So you want to go by something 20-25 years ago and equate it with what's going on now????

Sure.

Makes perfect sense.

Again I say...How many of them flew planes into our buildings?

All you can EVER come up is this whole The other guy thing or hey, we were bad too kind of crap.

Things change you know. But you are kinda like the Obama of this board.
Obama wants to spread the wealth around. Fair or not.

You want to spread the blame around, fair or not.

[BrAinPaiNt]

So you want to go by something 20-25 years ago and equate it with what's going on now????

Sure.

Makes perfect sense.

Again I say...How many of them flew planes into our buildings?

All you can EVER come up is this whole The other guy thing or hey, we were bad too kind of crap.

Things change you know. But you are kinda like the Obama of this board.
Obama wants to spread the wealth around. Fair or not.

You want to spread the blame around, fair or not.

OBL was part of that group...he is the guy responsible for 9/11. So we should have learned our lesson but we did not.

We supported Saddam against Iran later we took him out.

However 20-25 years ago does NOT include the current soldiers in Iraq that were killing our soldiers until we started paying them to fight on our side.

Again, you can roll your eyes all you want but those are facts.

And this has nothing to do with Obama.

This has to do with terrible policy in the middle east through the last few presidential administrations not just W's.

But YOU asked the question and I answered...you love to ask questions but you never like the answers.

So again what I said is true...we call them freedom fighters when they are serving our interests and call them terrorists when they attack us...we did not call them terrorists when they were fighting against the russians or the Iranians.

Sometimes you are better off leaving some things alone.

[Cajuncowboy]

OBL was part of that group...he is the guy responsible for 9/11. So we should have learned our lesson but we did not.

We supported Saddam against Iran later we took him out.

However 20-25 years ago does NOT include the current soldiers in Iraq that were killing our soldiers until we started paying them to fight on our side.

Again, you can roll your eyes all you want but those are facts.

And this has nothing to do with Obama.

This has to do with terrible policy in the middle east through the last few presidential administrations not just W's.

But YOU asked the question and I answered...you love to ask questions but you never like the answers.

So again what I said is true...we call them freedom fighters when they are serving our interests and call them terrorists when they attack us...we did not call them terrorists when they were fighting against the russians or the Iranians.

Sometimes you are better off leaving some things alone.

This is about now, not 25 years ago.

This is about what they are doing now.

You don't like the facts to be pointed out.

They are our enemies now. We had an interest before. Now they are enemies and need to die.

What is so hard to understand about this? You live in a dream world sometimes, I swear.

[BrAinPaiNt]

This is about now, not 25 years ago.

This is about what they are doing now.

You don't like the facts to be pointed out.

They are our enemies now. We had an interest before. Now they are enemies and need to die.

What is so hard to understand about this? You live in a dream world sometimes, I swear.

And you need to learn how to read and comprehend.

My VERY quote...


Back in the day we called some of the same terrorists....freedom fighters, that was when they were, or currently are, on our side.

Learn to read...what I said is FACT.

Seems like YOU are the one who does not understand and leaves in a dream world...I swear.

Sometimes it is like talking to a brick wall in here.

[burmafrd]

I recomend that Brain do a little research into the Mujihadeen of the 80's.
And if he cannot tell the difference between them and Al Queeda then just ignore him.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I recomend that Brain do a little research into the Mujihadeen of the 80's.
And if he cannot tell the difference between them and Al Queeda then just ignore him.

Maybe you should do your own research. The Mujihadeen were the freedom fighters and after they beat the russians they turned to fighting amongst themselves and eventually turned into the Taliban.

But don't let that get in the way.

[burmafrd]

No YOU do some real research into HOW they fought and who was it actually doing the fighting. If you care to. But I doubt it/you just want to gas on here as regards the BS of relative morality.

[Phrozen Phil]

That's right. You sit up there protected by America, knowing full well that if anyone would attack you we would be the first to defend you and yet you could care less about 3000 American lives lost. You are more concerned with not disturbing the precious disposition of the terrorists.

What a joke.

Protected by America? Puhlease. I'm not terribly worried about being "attacked" by anybody. Unlike you, I don't arm myself to the teeth and believe that someone's out to kill me or end my way of life. My original purpose in responding to this thread was to respond to the notion that torture is "OK". I do not believe for an instant that using the techniques employed at Gitmo will make the world a safer place. Understanding why these people are so angry would be a good start. If it's simply about hate, then war will continue to be the course. If there are legitimate grievances, then they should be adddressed.

[burmafrd]

You are so full of it. Al Queeda HAS no legitimate grievences= they want POWER. Typical liberal who cannot see truth even when it slaps them in the face.

By the way brain there are some aspects of Rambo Part 3 that are actually very accurate as regards the situation in Afhghanistan in the 80's.

[BrAinPaiNt]

No YOU do some real research into HOW they fought and who was it actually doing the fighting. If you care to. But I doubt it/you just want to gas on here as regards the BS of relative morality.

As I have stated, and you can argue it all you want, the Taliban emerged from the Mujihadeen members who turned against each other after defeating the russians.

So some of the very same people we supported and called freedom fighters turned against us later.

Just like we supported Saddam to do our bidding and he turned against us.

And just like we started paying fighters in Iraq that were killing our soldiers to join our side.

So please.

[BrAinPaiNt]

You are so full of it. Al Queeda HAS no legitimate grievences= they want POWER. Typical liberal who cannot see truth even when it slaps them in the face.

By the way brain there are some aspects of Rambo Part 3 that are actually very accurate as regards the situation in Afhghanistan in the 80's.

Never said they were not freedom fighters...if some of you would actually learn to read you would see that I did say we called them freedom fighters but they later morphed into people we called terrorists and I bet you money that even if it was the Mujihadeen of the 80's but we were over there fighting them and the russians were backing them....then we would have called them terrorists instead of freedom fighters at the time.

[Phrozen Phil]

As I have stated, and you can argue it all you want, the Taliban emerged from the Mujihadeen members who turned against each other after defeating the russians.

So some of the very same people we supported and called freedom fighters turned against us later.

Just like we supported Saddam to do our bidding and he turned against us.

And just like we started paying fighters in Iraq that were killing our soldiers to join our side.

So please.

You've cut to the heart of the matter. The French in Indochina, the British in Palestine, the British in India, The French and British in Iraq and Iran, and the Frennch and the U.S. in Vietnam have all struggled to maintain a presence in which they sought to influence those areas , only to eventually leave, either voluntarily or involuntarily. you'd think we'd have learned by now.

[Hostile]

I said YOU as in the person I was replying to....So if I was replying to someone named Joe I did not say YOU, JOE.

Hope that makes sense.Okay.

[Hostile]

After Germany surrendered in WWII many Germans who were trying to kill our soldiers began to work for us and then with us.

Same with Italy and Japan.

[xWraithx]

disturbed - down with the sickness. :)

I've lost all respect I had for you.... TERRIBLE song and even WORSE band. wow.


I recommend As I Lay Dying and throw in some Pantera as well

[iceberg]

I've lost all respect I had for you.... TERRIBLE song and even WORSE band. wow.


I recommend As I Lay Dying and throw in some Pantera as well

excuse me while i go recover.

done.

[Rackat]

excuse me while i go recover.

done.
That took longer than expected.

[xWraithx]

excuse me while i go recover.

done.

actually I think the Disturbed de-tox program lasts a lot longer than that

[iceberg]

That took longer than expected.

i wanted to make sure and give it all the attention it deserved.

[xWraithx]

i wanted to make sure and give it all the attention it deserved.

lol @ you.

[Rack Bauer]

Maybe we should just film some of our soldiers cutting of their heads and have the tape played on the local news?


No, we're doing MUCH worse then that, we're making them listen to music! OH THE HORROR!


Some of you people need to grow a pair. Seriously. It's music. It isn't hurting anyone. It never has, and it never will.

[iceberg]

Maybe we should just film some of our soldiers cutting of their heads and have the tape played on the local news?


No, we're doing MUCH worse then that, we're making them listen to music! OH THE HORROR!


Some of you people need to grow a pair. Seriously. It's music. It isn't hurting anyone. It never has, and it never will.

you've obviously never listened to amy winehurst.

[davidyee]

Some of you people need to grow a pair. Seriously. It's music. It isn't hurting anyone. It never has, and it never will.

...from an individual who has never had to listen to his child play the Barney song all day long.

Take the one song you hate, lock yourself in a room and listen to it endlessly at loud volumes. I think you will eventually decide that it does hurt - physically and mentally.

Just a thought - I believe the military's use of this tactic was well researched and thought out. In order to break down an individual actively you would have to have people working on him round the clock 24/7/365. Gets a bit tedious.

Like everyone else they need to sleep also and they don't want to be in the physical presence of these prisoners all day so this tactic is passive torture.

Works while you aren't working.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Maybe we should just film some of our soldiers cutting of their heads and have the tape played on the local news?


No, we're doing MUCH worse then that, we're making them listen to music! OH THE HORROR!


Some of you people need to grow a pair. Seriously. It's music. It isn't hurting anyone. It never has, and it never will.

They are doing it for a reason, if it did nothing, they wouldn't use it.

Hurt physically...no way unless it screws up someone's ear drums...mentally...again they are doing it for a reason and if it did nothing why would they do it?

Just something to think about.

Throw me in a room and make me listen to loud country music...I might cut my ears off.:laugh1:

[xWraithx]

They are doing it for a reason, if it did nothing, they wouldn't use it.

Hurt physically...no way unless it screws up someone's ear drums...mentally...again they are doing it for a reason and if it did nothing why would they do it?

Just something to think about.

Throw me in a room and make me listen to loud country music...I might cut my ears off.:laugh1:

cutting your ears off wouldn't do anything except add to the pain

you'd have to stab your eardrum to affect hearing

[BrAinPaiNt]

cutting your ears off wouldn't do anything except add to the pain

you'd have to stab your eardrum to affect hearing

Unless you cut your ears off and let the blood drain down into your ear holes and then take your fingers and jam them into your remaining ear holes until the ear drum busts and the blood drains down further and then.... Starting to sound like a cannibal corpse lyrics.

Or six feet under lyrics from the song non existence...

I'm gonna cut out my eyes
And rip out my tongue
I should just puncture my ears
I'm not alive now

[xWraithx]

Unless you cut your ears off and let the blood drain down into your ear holes and then take your fingers and jam them into your remaining ear holes until the ear drum busts and the blood drains down further and then.... Starting to sound like a cannibal corpse lyrics.

Or six feet under lyrics from the song non existence...

I'm gonna cut out my eyes
And rip out my tongue
I should just puncture my ears
I'm not alive now

:laugh2:

Psychiatrist: Brainpaint, have a seat right over there....

[hairic]

I had to remove some things from my reading list (can't keep up). Relevant to the thread, so I'll at least post it here.

"SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE INQUIRY INTO THE TREATMENT OF DETAINEES IN U.S. CUSTODY"

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2008/Detainees.121108.pdf

[burmafrd]

Yeah just another liberal dem wanting to blame Bush for something.
Nothing new hear. same ol bs.

[Cajuncowboy]

Protected by America? Puhlease. I'm not terribly worried about being "attacked" by anybody. Unlike you, I don't arm myself to the teeth and believe that someone's out to kill me or end my way of life. My original purpose in responding to this thread was to respond to the notion that torture is "OK". I do not believe for an instant that using the techniques employed at Gitmo will make the world a safer place. Understanding why these people are so angry would be a good start. If it's simply about hate, then war will continue to be the course. If there are legitimate grievances, then they should be adddressed.

#1 Don't really know what anyone would want in Canada so you are probably right, no point in going in there. After all, you do have folks risking their lives to get into canada. :rolleyes:

#2 YOU said "As a musician you were appalled by the use of music as torture."

So, you just don't want us to do ANYTHING to get information from these guys.

And "understanding" these guys would do exactly what? Would we have to change our ways and what we think is best for our country so they don't want to slaughter us?

Talk about grand ignorance.

[Cajuncowboy]

And you need to learn how to read and comprehend.

My VERY quote...



Learn to read...what I said is FACT.

Seems like YOU are the one who does not understand and leaves in a dream world...I swear.

Sometimes it is like talking to a brick wall in here.

You said it, and meant it as if we are some kind of hypocrites because25 years ago things were different.

Things change. You then claimed it was because of bad policy we are now facing these guys.

But what if you had a friend 25 years ago and you helped him out of some jams. But then last week he turned around and stole from you and killed someone in your familiy.

Would you blame yourself for being friends with him 25 years ago. Would that have been bad policy or would you blame the guy?

[burmafrd]

Brain will of course claim its different. Just like we were once at war with England now they are the best friends we have. The world moves on. The leaders of the Mujahadeen of the 80's were NOT the ones that started the Taliban or AL Queeda. But don't let little things like facts get in the way of another anti US or more honestly ANTI Republican rant.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain will of course claim its different. Just like we were once at war with England now they are the best friends we have. The world moves on. The leaders of the Mujahadeen of the 80's were NOT the ones that started the Taliban or AL Queeda. But don't let little things like facts get in the way of another anti US or more honestly ANTI Republican rant.

Actually they were...except for Al Quada which had backing from pakistan...another country we still deal with.

Too bad you guys don't understand the concept that if you keep helping terrorists (oops freedom fighters) they wind up later being terrorists against us.

I know that is too hard to fathom.

geez.

[ninja]

Brain will of course claim its different. Just like we were once at war with England now they are the best friends we have. The world moves on. The leaders of the Mujahadeen of the 80's were NOT the ones that started the Taliban or AL Queeda. But don't let little things like facts get in the way of another anti US or more honestly ANTI Republican rant.

Bingo. Brain loves to push his anti-Republican agenda in each and every thread. Who knows, maybe some kid stole his girlfriend in 3rd grade or something and later became a Republican. Mention Republicans, and Brain just keeps going and going like that Energizer Bunny. Maybe some shrink can figure out his hatred for Republicans. Brain's act has gotten old here and everyone is onto him. You can expect him to post the same old anti-Republican drivel (and underwear references).

[BrAinPaiNt]

Bingo. Brain loves to push his anti-Republican agenda in each and every thread. Who knows, maybe some kid stole his girlfriend in 3rd grade or something and later became a Republican. Mention Republicans, and Brain just keeps going and going like that Energizer Bunny. Maybe some shrink can figure out his hatred for Republicans. Brain's act has gotten old here and everyone is onto him. You can expect him to post the same old anti-Republican drivel (and underwear references).

And yet I am nowhere near the level of it than you or burm and your hate fest for all things not GOP. Hello Kettle.:laugh1:

At least I vote for republicans that deserve my vote, I doubt any of you would do the same for a dem that was a better candidate.

BTW...bonds medicated powder will help with that diaper rash.

[Cajuncowboy]

And yet I am nowhere near the level of it than you or burm and your hate fest for all things not GOP. Hello Kettle.:laugh1:

At least I vote for republicans that deserve my vote, I doubt any of you would do the same for a dem that was a better candidate.

BTW...bonds medicated powder will help with that diaper rash.

I'd vote for a Democrat if he held my views on important issues. Most people would I believe.

[burmafrd]

I am a conservative FIRST. All too many of the leaders of the Republican party over the last 5-7 years are NOT TRUE CONSERVATIVES. But that still makes it a better party then the flaming liberals haven the Democrats.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'd vote for a Democrat if he held my views on important issues. Most people would I believe.

How many have you voted for?

I can guarantee you I have voted for only one Democrat in my voting life and that includes gov, senate, cong.

I have voted republican or indie in all except that one time.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I am a conservative FIRST. All too many of the leaders of the Republican party over the last 5-7 years are NOT TRUE CONSERVATIVES. But that still makes it a better party then the flaming liberals haven the Democrats.

If you were a conservative FIRST, you would not have voted for W the second time or McCain this time.

So it would seem you are a conservative Second or third compared to a GOP over Dem FIRST.

[Cajuncowboy]

How many have you voted for?

I can guarantee you I have voted for only one Democrat in my voting life and that includes gov, senate, cong.

I have voted republican or indie in all except that one time.

I voted for A few on the state and local level.

It's just that most of the dems don't share my views generally.

I like Zell miller if that means anything.

[burmafrd]

Brain are you really awake? I was given a choice (and I mean a choice that meant something unlike people voting libertarian or othewise THROWING AWAY THEIR VOTE) of either Obama or Mccain, or Kerry or Bush. Its called the lesser of two evils. Realistic people understand that. Do you?
Bush was a social conservative but a fiscal liberal. Ouch. McCain- well the less said the better. Still I chose them over the democratic disasters.
Not liking the choice but understanding the need to CHOOSE - not run away and hide like all too many have.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Brain are you really awake? I was given a choice (and I mean a choice that meant something unlike people voting libertarian or othewise THROWING AWAY THEIR VOTE) of either Obama or Mccain, or Kerry or Bush. Its called the lesser of two evils. Realistic people understand that. Do you?
Bush was a social conservative but a fiscal liberal. Ouch. McCain- well the less said the better. Still I chose them over the democratic disasters.
Not liking the choice but understanding the need to CHOOSE - not run away and hide like all too many have.

Which means you are not a conservative FIRST, you are a Party member FIRST because you chose to vote party over another party even though the member was about fiscally conservative as the one in office and less socially conservative.

You are not conservative FIRST...end of story.

[burmafrd]

WOnder what you are smoking-if you think Kerry was not a far left wing guy as far as social parts went. Fiscally we already knew that. I voted for the most conservative person in each- are you so immersed in your hatred of Republicans that you cannot figure that out?

[BrAinPaiNt]

WOnder what you are smoking-if you think Kerry was not a far left wing guy as far as social parts went. Fiscally we already knew that. I voted for the most conservative person in each- are you so immersed in your hatred of Republicans that you cannot figure that out?

You are the one so immersed in party and it is not even close.

Unlike you, I voted for a real conservative...which is amazing since you are spouting how you are conservative first. Fact is you are Party first.

[burmafrd]

No brain you THREW AWAY YOUR VOTE by using it on someone who had no chance to do anything. So if anyone should be looking for an excuse it should be you. But then you are like all too many today- all style and no substance. Its all for show- nothing meaningful is done. That is what you get for voting for anyone other then those that have a chance to win. I used my vote to try and go in a better direction then the one that won. I used my vote on someone who had a CHANCE to win while you just wasted it.