Whatever Little efficiency in stimulus bill is now gone...

[sbark]

Obama Order Allows Unions to Drive Up Cost of Gov’t Contracts (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/2009/02/08/obama-order-allows-unions-to-drive-up-cost-of-govt-contracts/)

February 8, 2009 | Filed Under Barack Obama (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/barack-obama/), Budget (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/budget/), Democrats/Leftists (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/democratsleftists/), Economy/Finances (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/economyfinances/), Government, Corruption (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/government-corruption/), Liberals (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/liberals/), Media Bias (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/media-bias/), News (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/news/), President (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/president/), Publius Contributor (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/publius-contributor/), Socialism (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/socialism/), Society/Culture (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/societyculture/), Taxes (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/taxes/), Unions (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/unions/), Warner Todd Huston (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/publius-contributor/warner-todd-huston/) |
-By Warner Todd Huston
The newest in his series Executive Orders that are little else but sops to unions was uncorked in Washington on Friday, February 6. This one ordered the use of union labor for large-scale federal construction projects, eliminating 84 percent of the American contractors that are not unionized.
Not only would this bill force unions on government projects, but the resulting rise in the costs of those projects would be incredible. This executive order — a re-establishment of a Clinton era order — will force federal projects to accept labor agreements and the resulting higher wages, benefits and collective-bargaining that comes with that.
Naturally, the unions love this order. But the exorbitant costs that will be forced upon federal projects will be a bitter pill to taxpayers.

It is also really an anti-worker policy as opposed to one that encourages American jobs. As president Kirk Pickerel (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151ap_obama_labor.html) of the Associated Builders and Contractors trade group reveals, “84 percent of U.S. construction workers do not belong to labor unions.”
Looks like Obama has once again created a policy that only benefits a tiny number of America’s work force to the detriment of most of America’s construction workers.

[MetalHead]

Obama Order Allows Unions to Drive Up Cost of Gov’t Contracts (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/2009/02/08/obama-order-allows-unions-to-drive-up-cost-of-govt-contracts/)

February 8, 2009 | Filed Under Barack Obama (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/barack-obama/), Budget (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/budget/), Democrats/Leftists (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/democratsleftists/), Economy/Finances (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/economyfinances/), Government, Corruption (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/government-corruption/), Liberals (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/liberals/), Media Bias (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/media-bias/), News (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/news/), President (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/president/), Publius Contributor (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/publius-contributor/), Socialism (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/socialism/), Society/Culture (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/societyculture/), Taxes (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/taxes/), Unions (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/unions/), Warner Todd Huston (http://conservablogs.com/publiusforum/category/publius-contributor/warner-todd-huston/) |
-By Warner Todd Huston
The newest in his series Executive Orders that are little else but sops to unions was uncorked in Washington on Friday, February 6. This one ordered the use of union labor for large-scale federal construction projects, eliminating 84 percent of the American contractors that are not unionized.
Not only would this bill force unions on government projects, but the resulting rise in the costs of those projects would be incredible. This executive order — a re-establishment of a Clinton era order — will force federal projects to accept labor agreements and the resulting higher wages, benefits and collective-bargaining that comes with that.
Naturally, the unions love this order. But the exorbitant costs that will be forced upon federal projects will be a bitter pill to taxpayers.

It is also really an anti-worker policy as opposed to one that encourages American jobs. As president Kirk Pickerel (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151ap_obama_labor.html) of the Associated Builders and Contractors trade group reveals, “84 percent of U.S. construction workers do not belong to labor unions.”
Looks like Obama has once again created a policy that only benefits a tiny number of America’s work force to the detriment of most of America’s construction workers.

Messiah boy definitely has it all wrong.

[TheCount]

Not that I agree, but wouldn't this also reduce the amount of construction work that illegal immigrants could get, or can they join unions as well? I don't know much about how construction work gets done.

[sbark]

drastically slows down the effects of the stimulus bill.......no way 16% of contractors can hanlde the advertised work load the govt wants to push out via the stimulus bill........essentially what Romney & CBO are saying......the effects of stimulus is too slow into the economy for reasons such as this.

now, unless a good share of the other 84% unionize..........

or unless the stimulus bill is really nothing but a spending bill 90% and only a 10% stimulus bill.........

[MetalHead]

drastically slows down the effects of the stimulus bill.......no way 16% of contractors can hanlde the advertised work load the govt wants to push out via the stimulus bill........essentially what Romney & CBO are saying......the effects of stimulus is too slow into the economy for reasons such as this.

now, unless a good share of the other 84% unionize..........

or unless the stimulus bill is really nothing but a spending bill 90% and only a 10% stimulus bill.........

Thomas Sowell sums it up in one line.
This stimulus package is like mailing a letter to the fire dept. to tell them your house is on fire.

[irvin4evs]

Unions are the enemy? LOL.

[sbark]

Unions are the enemy? LOL.

as is the pattern of every leftist group. Unions, Enviro, Education,Warmers,Fannie Mae,....they all start out in the best of objectives and intentions.....I remember as a child when Enviro meant not throwing garbage out the window....now it is prevention of Energy sources to an entire civilzation...except for AlGore and B.Frank......

but they all grow to be virtual religions and outliving and outgrowing the nobel beginnings.... And we know how the left abhors any religion.......:p:


"A liberal is a socialist with a wife and two children." - Source Unknown (http://www.answers.com/topic/unknown-source)

[irvin4evs]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

[MetalHead]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

Go tell that to GM.

[irvin4evs]

GM failed because they were morons, not because of unions.

There were a hell of a lot more unions 40 years ago, and they weren't failing.

[MetalHead]

GM failed because they were morons, not because of unions.

There were a hell of a lot more unions 40 years ago, and they weren't failing.

Why don't you offer your extraordinary intelligence to them instead of posting here with the rest of the clueless right wing populace?

[ThaBigP]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

Speaking of dumb little theories...

[ThaBigP]

GM failed because they were morons, not because of unions.

There were a hell of a lot more unions 40 years ago, and they weren't failing.

So, employing 50,000 employees but being on the hook for health insurance for over 1,000,000 is a good thing, eh? "Dumb little theories" indeed.

[ScipioCowboy]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

This is a crass generalization that borders on the ridiculous.

I would agree that unions are a necessity. However, as with any institution or convention of man, they're not always good. Whenever you deem an organization infallible, you're giving them a dangerous amount of power.

[Rogah]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with that naive belief regarding unions. I don't think a single aspect of our economy is "always good - no exceptions." I think unionized labor bears a large brunt of the problems facing our domestic auto industry (as well as the executives that signed very short sighted collective bargaining agreements).

[burmafrd]

Is it just me or are his posts actually deteriorating?

[Kangaroo]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

That is funny texas is a non Union state because we are a right to work state an our economy overall has not been as hard hit as other parts of the US.

Funny how our homes cost less than in Union states cough cough Chicago and our cost of living is cheaper overall than cough cough place Like New York.

Funny how Texas has more people moving here looking for work

There is a reason after going back home for 1 year my Dad said now I remember why I left this fbomb place (he was working for a Union was a requirement of the job)

[sbark]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

.....the workers inside the unions are the strength...among the best in the world......Support the Union workers.......

Its the Union mngt itself that has sold out to collectivism...Mngt is in the hunt for money under the guise of "helping the downtrodden"----age old socialist ruse......all under the blanket of the evil Corptn's

There is a reason Unions as a percent of labor force has been in a steady decline to decades. The only sector keeping numbers in double digits is that most Federal Employees are Unionized.....

[ThaBigP]

Like somebody else posted, unions are like pretty much any other contemporary, out-of-control program...started with the best of intentions and to address real problems. They, like government progams, have simply clawed well beyond the territory they were created to address.

[sbark]

That is funny texas is a non Union state because we are a right to work state an our economy overall has not been as hard hit as other parts of the US.

Funny how our homes cost less than in Union states cough cough Chicago and our cost of living is cheaper overall than cough cough place Like New York.

Funny how Texas has more people moving here looking for work

There is a reason after going back home for 1 year my Dad said now I remember why I left this fbomb place (he was working for a Union was a requirement of the job)

Whenever Govt throws money at a sector..be it College Education, Infrastructure, Agriculture...........the cost to do business just raises by the amount of govt money injected......

best example is the govt always wanting to help everyone get a college education........the Univ.s just raise the tuition to eat up the "help" from the govt.......Govt throws money at Agric.---the rents and Machinery prices just go up to absorb it.........the Net profit in Ag over long term remains the same, but the risk of loss moves up.

Obama wants Unionized contractors to get all the govt bids..........only 16% of contractors are unionized......what do you think will be the level of bids with 84% of the competition sitting on the sidelines....

with that ratio.......even Jerry Jones might win a superbowl.

[TheCount]

That is funny texas is a non Union state because we are a right to work state an our economy overall has not been as hard hit as other parts of the US.

Funny how our homes cost less than in Union states cough cough Chicago and our cost of living is cheaper overall than cough cough place Like New York.

Funny how Texas has more people moving here looking for work

There is a reason after going back home for 1 year my Dad said now I remember why I left this fbomb place (he was working for a Union was a requirement of the job)

I'm not sure unions are even remotely the reason why homes would be cheaper in Texas vs Chicago. Then again, Texas is a state and Chicago is just one city.

[ThaBigP]

I'm not sure unions are even remotely the reason why homes would be cheaper in Texas vs Chicago. Then again, Texas is a state and Chicago is just one city.

It isn't just unions, my friend. Where one finds heavy unionization, one also finds a state or city with a "social program to cure whatever hurts ya". Tons of 'em. And heavy taxation (as well as double taxation) to help pay for all of this madness. The result? Productivity in those areas have declined due to the cost of not only doing business, but simply living there. Is it any wonder why somebody in New York would demand a union to negotiate higher wages? With all of the regulation and taxation there, you can't even *live* there on anything less than 100k/year. You'd live like a king or queen in Texas or another fiscally conservative state. And that is the "arse bite" for those demanding unionization. Fine, you'll get to negotiate super-high salaries and plush benefits packages. Don't go crying then when your industry can't compete with others not so inclined. And also don't go crying when the cost of living in your city/state skyrockets so that you are left with less than you had before in terms of purchasing power.

[MetalHead]

Is it just me or are his posts actually deteriorating?
Corroded minds yield deteriorating posts.
A rule in common sense.

[sbark]

Is it just me or are his posts actually deteriorating?

.....you cannot reason a man out of something, that he did not reason himself into........

[irvin4evs]

It isn't just unions, my friend. Where one finds heavy unionization, one also finds a state or city with a "social program to cure whatever hurts ya". Tons of 'em. And heavy taxation (as well as double taxation) to help pay for all of this madness. The result? Productivity in those areas have declined due to the cost of not only doing business, but simply living there. Is it any wonder why somebody in New York would demand a union to negotiate higher wages? With all of the regulation and taxation there, you can't even *live* there on anything less than 100k/year. You'd live like a king or queen in Texas or another fiscally conservative state. And that is the "arse bite" for those demanding unionization. Fine, you'll get to negotiate super-high salaries and plush benefits packages. Don't go crying then when your industry can't compete with others not so inclined. And also don't go crying when the cost of living in your city/state skyrockets so that you are left with less than you had before in terms of purchasing power.

Hahaha.

Suburbs cost less to live in than cities. This has nothing to do with unions.

If your logic made any sense at all, then the cost of living is going down all the time and was astronomically higher forty years ago.

[iceberg]

Is it just me or are his posts actually deteriorating?

like cotton candy on a rainey day...

[ThaBigP]

Hahaha.

Suburbs cost less to live in than cities. This has nothing to do with unions.

If your logic made any sense at all, then the cost of living is going down all the time and was astronomically higher forty years ago.

Captain clueless, read my post. I didn't say "suburbs are cheaper than cities!". I said heavily unionized areas also tend to be heavily socialized and bear a disproportionate tax burden, driving out production (i.e. tax the tax base into extinction).

[Kangaroo]

I'm not sure unions are even remotely the reason why homes would be cheaper in Texas vs Chicago. Then again, Texas is a state and Chicago is just one city.

Illinois period but that was my bad train of thought typing. Yes I know what house cost in Illinois I have relatives there and we are able to generally get more house for the money.

[ThaBigP]

like cotton candy on a rainey day...

Someone left the cake out in the rain.
I don't know if I can take it...
'cause it took so long to bake it...
and I'll never have that recipe...again....ohhhhh NOOOOOOO!!!!

[Kangaroo]

Hahaha.

Suburbs cost less to live in than cities. This has nothing to do with unions.

If your logic made any sense at all, then the cost of living is going down all the time and was astronomically higher forty years ago.

Bull malarkey lets go there lets talk the cost of Chicago suburbs like Clarendon Hills my uncle sold a 20 year old house no bigger than mine for like 400k I pay 92k for mine in a Houston Suburb (CyFair area) in a nicer part of town not a large house but about the same size. For 400k I could buy a 4000sq foot house and have money leftover hell i could custom build a lot of house including things like solar etc.

I mean come on Suburbs from area to area and when we talk about cities we also talk about the metropolitan area in general but please keep on digging your hole deeper

[TheCount]

With all of the regulation and taxation there, you can't even *live* there on anything less than 100k/year. You'd live like a king or queen in Texas or another fiscally conservative state. And that is the "arse bite" for those demanding unionization. Fine, you'll get to negotiate super-high salaries and plush benefits packages. Don't go crying then when your industry can't compete with others not so inclined. And also don't go crying when the cost of living in your city/state skyrockets so that you are left with less than you had before in terms of purchasing power.

So you believe that every place where the cost of living is high, it's due to unions? That makes no sense.

[ThaBigP]

So you believe that every place where the cost of living is high, it's due to unions? That makes no sense.

Like I said to the "Irvin" guy, go back to my post...but read again this time. I said unions were part of a systemic problem (at least the modern incarnation of them), and where one finds unions one also usually finds multiple social safety nets and a burdenson taxcode driving workers and work out of the state or municipality.

Seriously, do you guys just make up what other people say to make the arguments easier to refute? That's called making a "straw man".

[iceberg]

Like I said to the "Irvin" guy, go back to my post...but read again this time. I said unions were part of a systemic problem (at least the modern incarnation of them), and where one finds unions one also usually finds multiple social safety nets and a burdenson taxcode driving workers and work out of the state or municipality.

Seriously, do you guys just make up what other people say to make the arguments easier to refute? That's called making a "straw man".

i wanna straw pony....

[TheCount]

Seriously, do you guys just make up what other people say to make the arguments easier to refute? That's called making a "straw man".

That's rich coming from you considering you can't have a conversation with someone without acting like they slapped your sister.

[ScipioCowboy]

i wanna straw pony....

How about a big straw statue that stands several stories high? Then, we can place you at the very top, set it on fire, and sing praises to Barack Obama.

(Yes. I'm lifting the above scenario from a movie entitled, The Wicker Man.:D)

[ThaBigP]

http://myiq2xu.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/strawman.jpgThat's rich coming from you considering you can't have a conversation with someone without acting like they slapped your sister.

[ThaBigP]

i wanna straw pony....

http://www.reggie.net/albums/727/3535336-180.jpg

Wait, didn't the Greeks build one of those? :D

[iceberg]

ok, fine. a straw pegasus.

[ThaBigP]

ok, fine. a straw pegasus.

IT AIN'T GOT NO WINGS (or "it ain't got no wangs" for the proper Texas accent)! heh. Looks like a straw mascot for a condom company...

[CowboyMcCoy]

Not that I agree, but wouldn't this also reduce the amount of construction work that illegal immigrants could get, or can they join unions as well? I don't know much about how construction work gets done.

This seems like it's strictly unionizing government labor in cases that call for outside labor. So, it'd seem like your assumption would be correct.

[burmafrd]

BUT don't the libs think the illegals aren't so there should be no problem?

[trickblue]

Unions are always good. No exceptions. It's not a coincidence that the decline of the union and the failure of wages to match worker productivity over the past 40 years happened at the same time.

Congrats on your dumb little theory.

That is the single dumbest post in the history of the PZ... congrats...

[ThaBigP]

This seems like it's strictly unionizing government labor in cases that call for outside labor. So, it'd seem like your assumption would be correct.

I think he's talking about unions among the construction companies that might bid for these government contracts. That being the case, these wouldn't be "government" unions, nor would it be "government" labor, as the government simply contracts out to private companies for construction projects. The government doesn't have nationalized construction companies that are government employees...at least not yet (or at least none that I'm aware of - in Texas we do have state maintenance crews under DOT if I'm not mistaken). "Government" unions would more accurately describe the Postal Workers' Union, or the NEA (etc), who are unions representing workers actually employed by the state or federal government rather than a private employee working on a government contract.

[CowboyMcCoy]

I think he's talking about unions among the construction companies that might bid for these government contracts. That being the case, these wouldn't be "government" unions, nor would it be "government" labor, as the government simply contracts out to private companies for construction projects. The government doesn't have nationalized construction companies that are government employees...at least not yet (or at least none that I'm aware of - in Texas we do have state maintenance crews under DOT if I'm not mistaken). "Government" unions would more accurately describe the Postal Workers' Union, or the NEA (etc), who are unions representing workers actually employed by the state or federal government rather than a private employee working on a government contract.

True. Then it seems like something just isn't right about that, fundamentally.

[ABQCOWBOY]

ok, fine. a straw pegasus.


I would not let you have a Pony of any kind. No telling what your plans are for that poor innocent animal might be. :laugh2:

Your crazy like Pelosie if you think your getting a Pegasus out of this deal.

:D