Administration delays move toward more offshore drilling

[CowboyWay]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6256378.html



WASHINGTON — Calling it a “headlong rush of the worst kind,” Interior Secretary Ken Salazar today put the brakes on a Bush administration proposal to expand offshore oil and gas drilling.
Salazar said President Barack Obama’s administration will wait until September to decide whether to expand offshore drilling and invited public comments on the Bush administration’s plan to open up as much as 300 million acres of coastal waters for oil and gas leases.
Salazar said his decision to review the contentious issue represented a “dramatic change from the last eight years, where you had a one-road highway to energy independence, which was drill, drill, drill.”
He said he will conduct a comprehensive review of oil and gas resources off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts and schedule public meetings before issuing a verdict.
“The additional time we are providing will give states, stakeholders, and affected communities the opportunity to provide input on the future of our offshore areas,” Salazar said in a news conference at the Interior Department, which oversees oil and gas drilling on public lands, including 1.7 billion acres on the outer continental shelf.
The Bush administration’s proposal—unveiled Jan. 16, days before George W. Bush left office—would allow oil and gas exploration in broad swaths of coastal waters that have long been off-limits to drilling, including along the west and east coasts. A public comment period on that draft had been set to close March 23.
Salazar’s announcement drew sharp criticism from the industry.
“The American people understand the imperative of producing more of our energy resources right here at home,” said Barry Russell, president of the Independent Petroleum Association. “We need to act quickly and aggressively to develop domestic energy resources that could provide energy, jobs and needed revenues for states. This unnecessary delay will hold America back.”
Mike Olsen, a former senior Interior Department official who helped develop the Bush administration’s plan, said the public has had ample opportunity to weigh in on the proposal.
“Given the domestic supply challenges we face, it’s hard to imagine what more can be accomplished by extending the comment period,” Olsen said.
Governments, environmental groups, industry interests, labor unions and individuals have lodged more than 150,000 comments on the Bush proposal, according to the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service.
Salazar sought to reassure energy executives, pledging that they will be part of the discussion and that it needs their expertise.
“The oil and gas industry should not see the Obama administration as their enemy,” Salazar said.
But he cautioned:“We need to be honest about our energy future. A drill-only approach onshore and offshore is not enough. We need a comprehensive energy plan.”
Democratic lawmakers who are writing a broad energy bill hailed the turnaround. The House Natural Resources Committee Wednesday is set to launch a series of hearings examining the best plan for tapping pockets of oil and gas along the coast.
During last year’s campaign,Obama said he supported some expanded offshore drilling, and Salazar signaled that the administration remains open to the idea.
“There may in fact be additional areas where we need to develop those resources,” Salazar said. But he added that the country needs “a portfolio of resources,” including conservation efforts, renewable energy production and advanced technology.:bow:

[ChldsPlay]

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[burmafrd]

Well this is payback for the support of the wacko's. And with gas prices low right now they can get away with it. Of course in a year or two that will change but by then the media will have another excuse for him.

[Aikbach]

That'll do wonders for the economy and the three million families involved in the oil field.

[Cajuncowboy]

This administration is a disaster. Absolute disaster. They can't get people to work for them who doesn't have legal problems, they can't stimulate the economy but they will spend like drunken fools, they decide that getting our own oil is a BAD idea at a time when the country needs jobs in the worst way and ween itself off foreign oil.

But hey, Change!

What a bill of goods this country bought.

Those that voted for this fool are simply innocent suckers.

[Bob Sacamano]

This administration is a disaster. Absolute disaster. They can't get people to work for them who doesn't have legal problems, they can't stimulate the economy but they will spend like drunken fools, they decide that getting our own oil is a BAD idea at a time when the country needs jobs in the worst way and ween itself off foreign oil.

But hey, Change!

What a bill of goods this country bought.

Those that voted for this fool are simply innocent suckers.

the problem is that all the voters voted for him

while he's just front-boy for the Democrats, whose proposal this all is, I doubt Obama did much to put it together, if any of it

[VCDefectors]

Gee, here I thought this was going to be a thread about anything but the stimulus bill. But here we are...the conservative trolls shooting off their cybermouths about how much they hate Obama. How original.

[trickblue]

Gee, here I thought this was going to be a thread about anything but the stimulus bill. But here we are...the conservative trolls shooting off their cybermouths about how much they hate Obama. How original.

and the left-wingers shooting their mouth off about... well... nothing as usual...

[VCDefectors]

and the left-wingers shooting their mouth off about... well... nothing as usual...

Get real. :rolleyes:

[trickblue]

Get real. :rolleyes:

Good advice for yourself...

[burmafrd]

Poor VC. by his short posts you can kind of tell he is getting depressed at seeing his messiah not exactly shining.

[Doomsday101]

What about the oil rig workers and those associated? Every rig employes many people as well as sub contractors and part manufacture most made here in the US are these jobs not as important?

[DaBoys4Life]

Gee, here I thought this was going to be a thread about anything but the stimulus bill. But here we are...the conservative trolls shooting off their cybermouths about how much they hate Obama. How original.

Can Obama do no wrong in your eyes?

[Cajuncowboy]

Gee, here I thought this was going to be a thread about anything but the stimulus bill. But here we are...the conservative trolls shooting off their cybermouths about how much they hate Obama. How original.

I thought from what Dopebama said the economy was the most important problem we have. And to not address those in the oil business who could provide jobs and increase the economy would be irresponsible.

But I know you feel that since Dopey has arrived he has been slipping fast in the old approval ratings polls that you thought were so important during the Bush administration.

[BrAinPaiNt]

In my perverted fantasies...when Sarah says Drill Baby Drill...I don't think about off shore drilling.

[Cajuncowboy]

In my perverted fantasies...when Sarah says Drill Baby Drill...I don't think about off shore drilling.

:laugh2:

Hello
Prevy McPerve.

[ologan]

In my perverted fantasies...when Sarah says Drill Baby Drill...I don't think about off shore drilling.

Libertine!!

[CowboyWay]

I don't know why the republicans are so shocked at this. Obama said he wants to see less drilling and more eco freindly solutions. Wind, solar, wave, etc.
We need to quit this ridiculous dependance on oil this country has. Drill baby drill is the stupidest thing in the world.

Put the energy into alterior means of power and you'll create 100 times the amount of jobs than some stupid oil rigs out in the ocean.

[Bizwah]

I don't know why the republicans are so shocked at this. Obama said he wants to see less drilling and more eco freindly solutions. Wind, solar, wave, etc.
We need to quit this ridiculous dependance on oil this country has. Drill baby drill is the stupidest thing in the world.

Put the energy into alterior means of power and you'll create 100 times the amount of jobs than some stupid oil rigs out in the ocean.

Why not drill why we continue to look for other means?

Think.

We are all in need NOW! It will take years to get oil refineries up and running, sure.....but we know it's there...we know it WILL be there.

Continue to look for alternatives.....but let's not put all our eggs in this basket. Finding a viable alternative may take years....more years than we can afford....

I think it's ridiculous to pan the people that want drilling. They're simply folks that want to keep prices down. At the same time, I think it's important to continue to find new ways to fuel our cars, homes, etc.....

Doing both will create more jobs than just going with one.

I'm like Romney....I'm an "all the above" guy when it comes to energy.

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't know why the republicans are so shocked at this. Obama said he wants to see less drilling and more eco freindly solutions. Wind, solar, wave, etc.
We need to quit this ridiculous dependance on oil this country has. Drill baby drill is the stupidest thing in the world.

Put the energy into alterior means of power and you'll create 100 times the amount of jobs than some stupid oil rigs out in the ocean.

First Obama said "We will look at off shore drilling."

That was when gas was 4.00 a gallon and he was looking for votes. Of course we all knew he was full of crap.

And until you can actually find your so called eco-friendly solutions and make wind mills that fit on the roof of your car, we need oil.

You may think that "drill baby drill" is stupid, but it shows your ignorance of reality.

The problem isn't our dependence on oil, it's our dependence on FOREIGN oil. And drilling here and drilling now will get us off that. Once you do that, you will put more people to work and solve half of our problem.

I have no problem with alternative sources of energy, heck I welcome them, but until you actually have the solution and have it in a marketable form that doesn't cost more to use than what it costs to produce, you haven't got a solution.

The only thing your solution will do is employ more government funded scientists to waste more money on stupid research that has proven in the past to lead to nowhere. (Global warming, embryonic stem cell etc).

[Rogah]

:laugh2:

Hello
Prevy McPerve."I am not a pervert!" - Official motto, National Association of Perverts

[Rogah]

I don't know why the republicans are so shocked at this. Obama said he wants to see less drilling and more eco freindly solutions. Wind, solar, wave, etc.
We need to quit this ridiculous dependance on oil this country has. Drill baby drill is the stupidest thing in the world. The problem is we can't just flip a switch and "quit this ridiculous dependance on oil" we have.

But even if I agreed with the above, it makes absolutely ZERO sense whatsoever not to use our own oil resources (off shore and ANWAR) while importing billions and billions of barrells daily.

The complete and utter ridiculousness of that logic borders on the infuriating. It's like going to the store and buying a brand new television when you have the identical TV in your basement, unused and collecting dust.

[Dallas]

I don't know why the republicans are so shocked at this. Obama said he wants to see less drilling and more eco freindly solutions. Wind, solar, wave, etc.
We need to quit this ridiculous dependance on oil this country has. Drill baby drill is the stupidest thing in the world.

Put the energy into alterior means of power and you'll create 100 times the amount of jobs than some stupid oil rigs out in the ocean.

Yessss!!!! GREEN FUEL!! That'll power your muscle car, huh? Going to drop some bad boy peanut fuel in it and still pull a 12 second 1/4 mile?

Let me know how that works out for ya there bruh.

Surrounded by idiots.

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080324/Villains/Lion-King-Scar_l.jpg

[Doomsday101]

First Obama said "We will look at off shore drilling."

That was when gas was 4.00 a gallon and he was looking for votes. Of course we all knew he was full of crap.

And until you can actually find your so called eco-friendly solutions and make wind mills that fit on the roof of your car, we need oil.

You may think that "drill baby drill" is stupid, but it shows your ignorance of reality.

The problem isn't our dependence on oil, it's our dependence on FOREIGN oil. And drilling here and drilling now will get us off that. Once you do that, you will put more people to work and solve half of our problem.

I have no problem with alternative sources of energy, heck I welcome them, but until you actually have the solution and have it in a marketable form that doesn't cost more to use than what it costs to produce, you haven't got a solution.

The only thing your solution will do is employ more government funded scientists to waste more money on stupid research that has proven in the past to lead to nowhere. (Global warming, embryonic stem cell etc).

I agree, in this economical hard times we are having these ideas of the evil oil company needs to end they are a life blood for this nation and while finding alternatives is a great thing to do lets don't act like we can just walk away from the need for oil. The problem is getting away from Foreign oil and we can make a decent dent in that by drilling for the oil we have right here in the US from off shore to ANWAR and with today’s technology do so in less evasive way than years ago

[Rogah]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7545/toon041108cxh1.gif

[CowboyWay]

Why not drill why we continue to look for other means?

Think.

We are all in need NOW! It will take years to get oil refineries up and running, sure.....but we know it's there...we know it WILL be there.

Continue to look for alternatives.....but let's not put all our eggs in this basket. Finding a viable alternative may take years....more years than we can afford....

I think it's ridiculous to pan the people that want drilling. They're simply folks that want to keep prices down. At the same time, I think it's important to continue to find new ways to fuel our cars, homes, etc.....

Doing both will create more jobs than just going with one.

I'm like Romney....I'm an "all the above" guy when it comes to energy.

We aren't in need of oil now. Thats just a lie. You want to keep oil prices down, offshore drilling has NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with it. There is no supply and demand problem.
The Supply and demand issue issue was made up by oil companies. Even the oil baron saudi's have said there is no supply problem.

You want to keep oil prices down, do something on wall street and put perameters in place to watch the ultra rich hedge funds from speculating that oil prices will keep going up, up, up, up, and up.

Thats the real reason oil was $4 a gallon. It had nothing to do with foriegn oil prices. Did you know that a barrel of oil was bought and sold over 40 times on wall street before the end users (exxons, etc) would get it? Do you know what that does to the price??

You go and drill offshore now, yeah, you'll create some jobs, but what it really does is slow the development of the eco freindly technology.

Who wants to invest in wind/solar/wave, when a gallon of gas is $1.30? NOBODY. But when the price shoots up to $4 over a 4 month span, everyone in the world wants eco power. But then its too late, because nobody has been working on it. Why? Gas is $1.30

You want "Change", you have to invest in it NOW, and if you invest in it, it will create an incredible number of jobs. But it doesn't happen overnight. We need a sustained commitment to it. We will get there.

[Dallas]

We aren't in need of oil now. Thats just a lie. You want to keep oil prices down, offshore drilling has NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with it. There is no supply and demand problem.
The Supply and demand issue issue was made up by oil companies. Even the oil baron saudi's have said there is no supply problem.

You want to keep oil prices down, do something on wall street and put perameters in place to watch the ultra rich hedge funds from speculating that oil prices will keep going up, up, up, up, and up.

Thats the real reason oil was $4 a gallon. It had nothing to do with foriegn oil prices. Did you know that a barrel of oil was bought and sold over 40 times on wall street before the end users (exxons, etc) would get it? Do you know what that does to the price??

You go and drill offshore now, yeah, you'll create some jobs, but what it really does is slow the development of the eco freindly technology.

Who wants to invest in wind/solar/wave, when a gallon of gas is $1.30? NOBODY. But when the price shoots up to $4 over a 4 month span, everyone in the world wants eco power. But then its too late, because nobody has been working on it. Why? Gas is $1.30

You want "Change", you have to invest in it NOW, and if you invest in it, it will create an incredible number of jobs. But it doesn't happen overnight. We need a sustained commitment to it. We will get there.

Gas is not 1.30$ a gallon. I paid 2.51 this morning to fill up the car. You live in Texas. Texas has some of the most advanced oil refineries in the country. How about you move to a place that has less of that refining potential and where the refineries are producing the maximum fuel the can. Move to those areas and see how much you are paying for gas.

The more and more I read your posts, the more and more I can attest you don't understand the market.

[Doomsday101]

We aren't in need of oil now. Thats just a lie. You want to keep oil prices down, offshore drilling has NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with it. There is no supply and demand problem.
The Supply and demand issue issue was made up by oil companies. Even the oil baron saudi's have said there is no supply problem.

You want to keep oil prices down, do something on wall street and put perameters in place to watch the ultra rich hedge funds from speculating that oil prices will keep going up, up, up, up, and up.

Thats the real reason oil was $4 a gallon. It had nothing to do with foriegn oil prices. Did you know that a barrel of oil was bought and sold over 40 times on wall street before the end users (exxons, etc) would get it? Do you know what that does to the price??

You go and drill offshore now, yeah, you'll create some jobs, but what it really does is slow the development of the eco freindly technology.

Who wants to invest in wind/solar/wave, when a gallon of gas is $1.30? NOBODY. But when the price shoots up to $4 over a 4 month span, everyone in the world wants eco power. But then its too late, because nobody has been working on it. Why? Gas is $1.30

You want "Change", you have to invest in it NOW, and if you invest in it, it will create an incredible number of jobs. But it doesn't happen overnight. We need a sustained commitment to it. We will get there.

We are not in need of oil now? As for alternative it will be the Exxon\Mobil the shells and BP who will be a big part of providing alternative energy. If the US stopped all oil use today our entire economy would go so far down the drain we would be nothing but a 3rd world country and yes we need to look ahead to the future and these energy companies know this as well but there is no magic bullet wind/solar and waves is not going to get our needs taken care of alone it will take things like Nuclear as well. Even a big oil man like T Boone Pickens know this and he has not sold his investments in the oil industry as he is making investments in alternatives as well.

[CowboyWay]

Yessss!!!! GREEN FUEL!! That'll power your muscle car, huh? Going to drop some bad boy peanut fuel in it and still pull a 12 second 1/4 mile?

Let me know how that works out for ya there bruh.

Surrounded by idiots.



Surrounded by idiots indeed.

http://s689.photobucket.com/albums/vv255/cmrench/?action=view&current=Green-muscle-cars2_550x413.jpg
Global warming and worries about fuel prices have prompted demand for diesel cars and conversions.
This 1965 Chevy Impala was retrofitted to run on biodiesel for MTV's show Pimp My Ride. When it raced a Lamborghini in a quarter-mile drag race, the show's producers were afraid the Lamborghini would win by a large margin, but the biodiesel car dusted it.
The Impala was overhauled by Jonathan Goodwin, a biodiesel conversion specialist and founder of alternative energy start-up SAE Energy. Goodwin specializes in turning muscle cars into eco-friendly machines.

[CowboyWay]

Gas is not 1.30$ a gallon. I paid 2.51 this morning to fill up the car. You live in Texas. Texas has some of the most advanced oil refineries in the country. How about you move to a place that has less of that refining potential and where the refineries are producing the maximum fuel the can. Move to those areas and see how much you are paying for gas.

The more and more I read your posts, the more and more I can attest you don't understand the market.

Before gas has inched back up, a month or two ago, I paid $1.34 per gallon. I don't know where you live, and don't care. Its a moot point.

If you are paying $2.51 today, then 6 months ago, you were paying well over 4. The argument is the same. Nobody wants to invest in alternate energy when fuel is cheap. Nobody wants to invest in it, unless they are paying ridiculously high amounts for fossil fuels.

Tell the world that you're going to invest billions of dollars in finding alternate forms of energy and watch what happens. Crude will drop so fast it will make your head spin. Why? Because they want it to dirt cheap so nobody works too hard to find alternatives. And when people aren't focused on alternatives, barrels of crude will go back up.

Its a sick cycle that will never end until all the oil is used.

It sounds like you don't understand the markets. Its basic economics. You threaten to cut me off as a vendor to you, I'm going to do everything in my power to keep you using me. Even if that means I cut the price for a while.

Now THATS supply and demand.

[CowboyWay]

We are not in need of oil now? As for alternative it will be the Exxon\Mobil the shells and BP who will be a big part of providing alternative energy. If the US stopped all oil use today our entire economy would go so far down the drain we would be nothing but a 3rd world country and yes we need to look ahead to the future and these energy companies know this as well but there is no magic bullet wind/solar and waves is not going to get our needs taken care of alone it will take things like Nuclear as well. Even a big oil man like T Boone Pickens know this and he has not sold his investments in the oil industry as he is making investments in alternatives as well.

No, no, no. Of course we are in need of it. Our economy is based on it. My point was that the oil companies tried to tell us about emerging markets, and supply and demand back when gas was $4 per gallon. But that was a flat out lie.
OPEC, and any other arab oil man flat out said that that was untrue. They said there was plenty of oil, and nobody was doing without. Speculators brought the oil to those all time highs. Hedge funds, with super rich people getting richer.

[Dallas]

Surrounded by idiots indeed.

http://s689.photobucket.com/albums/vv255/cmrench/?action=view&current=Green-muscle-cars2_550x413.jpg
Global warming and worries about fuel prices have prompted demand for diesel cars and conversions.
This 1965 Chevy Impala was retrofitted to run on biodiesel for MTV's show Pimp My Ride. When it raced a Lamborghini in a quarter-mile drag race, the show's producers were afraid the Lamborghini would win by a large margin, but the biodiesel car dusted it.
The Impala was overhauled by Jonathan Goodwin, a biodiesel conversion specialist and founder of alternative energy start-up SAE Energy. Goodwin specializes in turning muscle cars into eco-friendly machines.

As for the race, it's not surprising that an 800hp car beats a ~500hp car on a 1/4 mile straight line race, it doesn't really prove much. Would have been more interesting to have two decent performing cars of the same type, one on bio-fuel and one not.

The weight/horepower ratio of the Impala is simply better. They did a bottom up retro on the Impala. This means they lost a ton of weight so that they had a chance against the Gallardo. They then added 300 more HP to it. :D

That, and you also have to see how the gears/transmission are/is setup. Oink oink, obviously they had a guy from GM with them. It's no real wonder the Gallardo lost, it's not setup for drag racing, the Impala however is.

We probably should not get into the specifics of how the Impala was built for a 1/4 mile race where the Gallardo isn't made or setup to run a 1/4 mile?


Again - idiots.

[Kangaroo]

As for the race, it's not surprising that an 800hp car beats a ~500hp car on a 1/4 mile straight line race, it doesn't really prove much. Would have been more interesting to have two decent performing cars of the same type, one on bio-fuel and one not.

The weight/horepower ratio of the Impala is simply better. They did a bottom up retro on the Impala. This means they lost a ton of weight so that they had a chance against the Gallardo. They then added 300 more HP to it. :D

That, and you also have to see how the gears/transmission are/is setup. Oink oink, obviously they had a guy from GM with them. It's no real wonder the Gallardo lost, it's not setup for drag racing, the Impala however is.

We probably should not get into the specifics of how the Impala was built for a 1/4 mile race where the Gallardo isn't made or setup to run a 1/4 mile?


Again - idiots.

I will trust you on this I am not a car guy

[Bizwah]

We aren't in need of oil now. Thats just a lie. You want to keep oil prices down, offshore drilling has NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with it. There is no supply and demand problem.
The Supply and demand issue issue was made up by oil companies. Even the oil baron saudi's have said there is no supply problem.

We aren't in need now?

How do you fuel your car? I use oil everyday. I NEED it. We all NEED it.

Everyone agrees that we need to do something about energy. Simple laws of supply and demand say that when supply goes up....demand goes down...and prices go down with it.

Drillng can only help prices.

You want to keep oil prices down, do something on wall street and put perameters in place to watch the ultra rich hedge funds from speculating that oil prices will keep going up, up, up, up, and up.

Thats the real reason oil was $4 a gallon. It had nothing to do with foriegn oil prices. Did you know that a barrel of oil was bought and sold over 40 times on wall street before the end users (exxons, etc) would get it? Do you know what that does to the price??

I'm for this too. Again, why must it be one extreme or the other?

And you're pretty naive if you think that the sole reason for oil prices going up was due to oil speculators.

No...it had plenty to do with the oil cartels gouging prices.

You go and drill offshore now, yeah, you'll create some jobs, but what it really does is slow the development of the eco freindly technology.

Creating jobs is bad? And, I fail to see how drilling will slow the development of eco-friendly technology.

Who wants to invest in wind/solar/wave, when a gallon of gas is $1.30? NOBODY. But when the price shoots up to $4 over a 4 month span, everyone in the world wants eco power. But then its too late, because nobody has been working on it. Why? Gas is $1.30

I think if you poll Americans, you'd get 100% of the people to say they would like to invest in wind/solar/or wave technology. Again, lame arguement. You can't say that we should stop drilling because we won't find new "clean" fuels.

The real difference between you and me is this: I am not willing to risk $4.00 a gallon gas (which played a HUGE role in hurting the economy) for a long period of time, to cross my fingers hoping that a "new" technology will come along and help free us all of oil.

You appear to be willing to risk this.....

You want "Change", you have to invest in it NOW, and if you invest in it, it will create an incredible number of jobs. But it doesn't happen overnight. We need a sustained commitment to it. We will get there.

I agree....invest in it now....but let's not forget the millions of Americans that depend on oil everyday. Let's not forget the farmer that has to fuel their combines and tractors to bring in their crops....let's not forget the truck drivers that may lose their jobs due to sky rocketing fuel costs....let's not forget the families that depend on oil to heat their homes.

Drilling will help keep prices down....drilling will help these families put bread on the table.

Continue to look for alternatives....have grants and incentives from the govt to find these fuels.

Look at it like this.....

Let's say we find a new fuel tomorrow. What happens?

Do we suddenly have relief overnight?

No...it will take years of more research to make sure it's safe. It will take years for car companies to make cars that regular folks can even afford....and it will take even longer to replace the infrastructure needed to support a new fuel. Take Hydrogen Fuel Cells....Even if they improve this technology to where it's efficient enough to make sense for everyone, it would take years to put enough fueling stations across the country for it to make sense for Americans.

Again....try to ease the burden of cost as much as possible on Americans. Give them jobs at the refineries. At the same time, research, research, develop, develop to create jobs.

This solution makes the most sense.

[CowboyWay]

Again - idiots.


I didn't post the story because it beat the Gallardo, I posted it to show that when you put your mind to something, you can do it. If a muscle car can be eco friendly, than we can create eco friendly fuel sources. (or at the very least not use nearly as much as we do)

(me shaking my head)

[Dallas]

I didn't post the story because it beat the Gallardo, I posted it to show that when you put your mind to something, you can do it. If a muscle car can be eco friendly, than we can create eco friendly fuel sources. (or at the very least not use nearly as much as we do)

(me shaking my head)


My point wasn't that it couldnt be done, but that it is not economical to do it. Everyone wants green energy and fuel. We differ on how you get to it, is all.

I am for drilling and putting our resources into cleaner fuels and more efficient energies.

But again, I am for tapping all of our resources while we develop the alternatives. That was all I was trying to say. ;)

[trickblue]

As for the race, it's not surprising that an 800hp car beats a ~500hp car on a 1/4 mile straight line race, it doesn't really prove much. Would have been more interesting to have two decent performing cars of the same type, one on bio-fuel and one not.

The weight/horepower ratio of the Impala is simply better. They did a bottom up retro on the Impala. This means they lost a ton of weight so that they had a chance against the Gallardo. They then added 300 more HP to it. :D

That, and you also have to see how the gears/transmission are/is setup. Oink oink, obviously they had a guy from GM with them. It's no real wonder the Gallardo lost, it's not setup for drag racing, the Impala however is.

We probably should not get into the specifics of how the Impala was built for a 1/4 mile race where the Gallardo isn't made or setup to run a 1/4 mile?


Again - idiots.

http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/Worst_Oscars/cousinvinny1_502.jpg

"'Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55, the 327 didn't come out till '62. And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till '64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center". :D

[Hoofbite]

This might be a little off topic but wasn't there like a 10 year time frame on getting any benefit from drilling now?

I've always wondered why in the hell it would take that long. Does anyone know?

How can it really take that long to start benefitting?

I mean, didn't it take less from the time that Kennedy said we were going to the moon until we actually landed there?

I realize you can't just fart out an oil rig and start sucking it out of the ground but goodness, 10 years?

As far as the thread goes, I'm not really sold either way on drilling or not drilling. At a 10 year wait, would we really be doing a lot of good right now by drilling? For the purposes of getting the economy rolling, would allowing them to drill right now have that big of an impact? I don't know if it would so I am asking you guys for what you think.

[Rogah]

This might be a little off topic but wasn't there like a 10 year time frame on getting any benefit from drilling now?

I've always wondered why in the hell it would take that long. Does anyone know?I don't really know for certain how long it would take, but I do know that one of the arguments used to oppose drilling is "we won't even see any benefits from drilling for another 10 years or so." Of course, they've been saying that since the mid-90's.

Think about it. :D

[burmafrd]

It should not take 10 years. HOWEVER with all the ro s the environmental wacko's have managed to convince th government to put in place before you can do anything ("studies", etc) it would probably be at least a year or two before they could even drill the first test well. THen with more studies needed if they do indeed find a lot of oil. And so on.
Realistically it should take no more then 6 months to start drilling test wells ANYWHERE. Another 6 months to do that and evaluate the area. Then 2-3 years to get production. So honestly if we started right now in ANWAR or offshore we would see actual oil in the system in 3-4 years.

Cowboy makes me laugh. "we do not need oil right now"

Has there been a dumber post recently?

[Kangaroo]

This might be a little off topic but wasn't there like a 10 year time frame on getting any benefit from drilling now?

I've always wondered why in the hell it would take that long. Does anyone know?

How can it really take that long to start benefitting?

I mean, didn't it take less from the time that Kennedy said we were going to the moon until we actually landed there?

I realize you can't just fart out an oil rig and start sucking it out of the ground but goodness, 10 years?

As far as the thread goes, I'm not really sold either way on drilling or not drilling. At a 10 year wait, would we really be doing a lot of good right now by drilling? For the purposes of getting the economy rolling, would allowing them to drill right now have that big of an impact? I don't know if it would so I am asking you guys for what you think.

Here is the issue we lack the number of Rigs to drill that many wells that quickly period my last Oil Company i worked for a couple years ago extended contracts on Oil Rigs that we where not ready to drill yet. It is a tricky business you have to buy the lease on the property get the data process look at it ok you got a good idea there is oil there now is there infrastructure built out enough to get it to where it needs if not is the cost to get it there worth it if not when will the natrual expansion of the infrastructure be cost effective to get it to where it needs to go.

There is risk as well hitting a dry hole and some other stuff. Most of the Midsize and smaller companies get partners to offset the risk. A offshore rig is going to budget out about 95+ million so what happens is Small company A sends out feelers sometimes even to the Big guys so Company B says he might be interested so you show them your data negotiate the risk. So company A says ok we want you to out up 30% of the 95+ million on this well and for that you get 30% of all the oil pumped from this well.

All that takes time and then you have start scheduling a rig if you have one which maybe two years out then do you have a driller that knows what he is doing and a crew and that's not even talking about all the other vendor stuff you need depending on the well type everything else you have to coordinate with vendors. Materials like shaft and bits, sand if they are doing fractueres which is pretty much the norm today etc etc.

It is not just ooh oil lets plop down here because there is also a lot of Government regualtions etc as well.

[Cajuncowboy]

We aren't in need of oil now. Thats just a lie. You want to keep oil prices down, offshore drilling has NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to do with it. There is no supply and demand problem.
The Supply and demand issue issue was made up by oil companies. Even the oil baron saudi's have said there is no supply problem.

You want to keep oil prices down, do something on wall street and put perameters in place to watch the ultra rich hedge funds from speculating that oil prices will keep going up, up, up, up, and up.

Thats the real reason oil was $4 a gallon. It had nothing to do with foriegn oil prices. Did you know that a barrel of oil was bought and sold over 40 times on wall street before the end users (exxons, etc) would get it? Do you know what that does to the price??

You go and drill offshore now, yeah, you'll create some jobs, but what it really does is slow the development of the eco freindly technology.

Who wants to invest in wind/solar/wave, when a gallon of gas is $1.30? NOBODY. But when the price shoots up to $4 over a 4 month span, everyone in the world wants eco power. But then its too late, because nobody has been working on it. Why? Gas is $1.30

You want "Change", you have to invest in it NOW, and if you invest in it, it will create an incredible number of jobs. But it doesn't happen overnight. We need a sustained commitment to it. We will get there.

This kind of thinking got us 4 dollar gas. Dangerous thinking.

[CowboyWay]

[INDENT]


My point wasn't that it couldnt be done, but that it is not economical to do it. Everyone wants green energy and fuel. We differ on how you get to it, is all.

I am for drilling and putting our resources into cleaner fuels and more efficient energies.

But again, I am for tapping all of our resources while we develop the alternatives. That was all I was trying to say. ;)

I hear you. I just believe that while it may not be the most efficient thing right now (going green). It will be in time. Just like a DVD player cost a grand when they first developed them and sold them. After a while, the technology is so simple and easy, that you can buy one for $40.

I just don't want to wait until the worlds oil is depleted before some people take this stuff seriously. Just my opinion.

[CowboyWay]

This kind of thinking got us 4 dollar gas. Dangerous thinking.


No. Putting you head in the sand while the fat cats on wall street who weren't regulated decided to play roulette with our economy gave us $4 gas.

And we all know how you feel about regulation.

[Cajuncowboy]

No. Putting you head in the sand while the fat cats on wall street who weren't regulated decided to play roulette with our economy gave us $4 gas.

And we all know how you feel about regulation.

Dude, ignorant talk like "We don't need oil no" is what did it. People like you who moaned over drilling that caused us to go to foreign sources for our oil and to refine it a well caused it.

You don't have the first clue on earth what you are talking about.

HAve you figured out how to get that windmill on the roof of your car yet?

[Hoofbite]

Bruce Willis, Ben Afleck, Michael Clark Duncan and Steve Buscemi (sp?) could drill us a winner in no time flat.

[Doomsday101]

No, no, no. Of course we are in need of it. Our economy is based on it. My point was that the oil companies tried to tell us about emerging markets, and supply and demand back when gas was $4 per gallon. But that was a flat out lie.
OPEC, and any other arab oil man flat out said that that was untrue. They said there was plenty of oil, and nobody was doing without. Speculators brought the oil to those all time highs. Hedge funds, with super rich people getting richer.

Oil companies did not jack up the price congress (dem lead) had several hearing on this and found no wrong doing by the oil companies. Speculators as in investors in the oil market yes they can cause the prices to rise and fall just like any other commodity on the market however it is not US investors alone it is speculators around the world and with the rising need of oil by China and India as well as the US it did cause prices to go up and now with less demand due in large part of the economy prices have gone down.

None of this however has anything to do with drilling oil in our own country so that we are getting less from overseas. I'll add one other fact to this while many think the majority comes from SA the truth is we import more oil from Canada than any other country.

[JBond]

This administration is a disaster. Absolute disaster. They can't get people to work for them who doesn't have legal problems, they can't stimulate the economy but they will spend like drunken fools, they decide that getting our own oil is a BAD idea at a time when the country needs jobs in the worst way and ween itself off foreign oil.

But hey, Change!

What a bill of goods this country bought.

Those that voted for this fool are simply innocent suckers.

I still want to know who is pulling the strings behind the curtain. Socialist community organizers do not become President of the United States. I still want to know where he got 700 million dollars during the election. That would be the best place to start looking for the man behind the curtain.

[JBond]

No. Putting you head in the sand while the fat cats on wall street who weren't regulated decided to play roulette with our economy gave us $4 gas.

And we all know how you feel about regulation.

Are you saying the energy industry and banking industry are not regulated? Just checking.

[DIAF]

Dude, ignorant talk like "We don't need oil no" is what did it. People like you who moaned over drilling that caused us to go to foreign sources for our oil and to refine it a well caused it.

You don't have the first clue on earth what you are talking about.

HAve you figured out how to get that windmill on the roof of your car yet?

Neither of you do, actually. You are both wrong. 4 dollar-a-gallon gas did not come from foreign dependence on oil. OPEC likes charging as much as they can for their crude, but even they were worried about the price being too high as speculators drove it up to unprecedented highs. Too high a price eventually leads to less demand and less volume going out of the storehouse.

Yes, we DO need the oil. Drilling in our own backyard WILL lead to lower oil prices. Drastically lower? Probably not, but I'd rather we drill for as much of our own oil as we can before we buy it from other places. Most people agree, it's probably best to have as much of a commodity on hand as possible, and drilling seems to have the support of the majority of Americans last time polls were taken (granted, this was before the price plunged).

[Kangaroo]

Dude, ignorant talk like "We don't need oil no" is what did it. People like you who moaned over drilling that caused us to go to foreign sources for our oil and to refine it a well caused it.

You don't have the first clue on earth what you are talking about.

HAve you figured out how to get that windmill on the roof of your car yet?

By the way that windmill need oil for lubrication and some hydraulic fluid which is based on oil so hey can not use the windmill either

[CowboyWay]

Cowboy makes me laugh. "we do not need oil right now"

Has there been a dumber post recently?

Yeah. Pretty much every time you post.

"We do not need oil right now"....

Talk about pulling a sentence out of context. Wow.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JBond]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7545/toon041108cxh1.gif

So true. Thank god we have new leadership with fresh ideas.;)

[Cajuncowboy]

Neither of you do, actually. You are both wrong. 4 dollar-a-gallon gas did not come from foreign dependence on oil. OPEC likes charging as much as they can for their crude, but even they were worried about the price being too high as speculators drove it up to unprecedented highs. Too high a price eventually leads to less demand and less volume going out of the storehouse.

Yes, we DO need the oil. Drilling in our own backyard WILL lead to lower oil prices. Drastically lower? Probably not, but I'd rather we drill for as much of our own oil as we can before we buy it from other places. Most people agree, it's probably best to have as much of a commodity on hand as possible, and drilling seems to have the support of the majority of Americans last time polls were taken (granted, this was before the price plunged).

Actually, you are.

The 4.00 gas came from the speculators who were primarily looking at what OPEC did, you are right, however, had this country not been dependent on this oil, do you think that speculation would have driven the price that high?

[Cajuncowboy]

By the way that windmill need oil for lubrication and some hydraulic fluid which is based on oil so hey can not use the windmill either

:laugh2:

I guess we will need to hire midgets to stand on the top of the car to spin the wheel when the wind can't.

Cool. More jobs.

:D

[DIAF]

Actually, you are.

The 4.00 gas came from the speculators who were primarily looking at what OPEC did, you are right, however, had this country not been dependent on this oil, do you think that speculation would have driven the price that high?

And you are a fool if you think that we've got enough oil under us to negate speculation. As opposed to 4.00 gas, we might have had 3.85. Also, assume we don't buy any oil from OPEC. Assume we get it from Canada instead. You think we are going to get some kind of discount on it? Heck no, they are going to charge as much as they can.

Drilling is NOT the answer to our problem. However, every little bit helps.

[Cajuncowboy]

And you are a fool if you think that we've got enough oil under us to negate speculation. As opposed to 4.00 gas, we might have had 3.85. Also, assume we don't buy any oil from OPEC. Assume we get it from Canada instead. You think we are going to get some kind of discount on it? Heck no, they are going to charge as much as they can.

Drilling is NOT the answer to our problem. However, every little bit helps.

With the halt on exploration and drilling and refining in this country over the last several decades, please regale us with your wisdom on how you know we don't have enough oil to negate the foreign speculators?

I'll save you the time, you don't.

Just blowing smoke like always.

Drilling may not be the TOTAL answer but it will take us at least 75% of the way there. Only a lunatic would be against us getting our own natural resources in favor of importing it.

[DIAF]

With the halt on exploration and drilling and refining in this country over the last several decades, please regale us with your wisdom on how you know we don't have enough oil to negate the foreign speculators?

I'll save you the time, you don't.

Just blowing smoke like always.

Drilling may not be the TOTAL answer but it will take us at least 75% of the way there. Only a lunatic would be against us getting our own natural resources in favor of importing it.

75% of the way there? Wow. Talk about not knowing what one is talking about. Even the most optimistic geologist estimates something like 31 billion barrels of feasibly recoverable oil under our soil and 86 billion offshore under protected areas. We use, as a nation, 7.5 billion barrels a year (using 2007 as the example, this is doubtless to go up in the future). Factor in the time required to drill for it, and we aren't looking at a whole lot. Also factor in the projected need for oil here, in China, in India, etc. and you'll realize that as more oil is discovered, its demand will always be going up, up, up in the meantime. Is it worth doing, yeah. But its not going to be a silver bullet.


Only a lunatic would be against us getting our own natural resources in favor of importing it.

Nice strawman. I said nothing of the sort, and in fact, said that I was for EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

[Dallas]

75% of the way there? Wow. Talk about not knowing what one is talking about. Even the most optimistic geologist estimates something like 31 billion barrels of feasibly recoverable oil under our soil and 86 billion offshore under protected areas. We use, as a nation, 7.5 billion barrels a year (using 2007 as the example, this is doubtless to go up in the future). Factor in the time required to drill for it, and we aren't looking at a whole lot. Also factor in the projected need for oil here, in China, in India, etc. and you'll realize that as more oil is discovered, its demand will always be going up, up, up in the meantime. Is it worth doing, yeah. But its not going to be a silver bullet.



Nice strawman. I said nothing of the sort, and in fact, said that I was for EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

All you keep saying is everyone knows nothing and you have all the answers.


What I can't figure out at all about you is that I don't know how you ever parted that Red Sea that was in your way back then. I just can't put my finger on it.

Just think of how efficient we would be now if we could only harness the GAS coming out of your dairy-air. Im sure we could get what, 50-80 mpg from it?:p:

Just because you yell louder and say no doesn't make you the king of knowledge.

So please stop w/ "I got it all fingered out" content you keep tossing up like golden boogers. It begins to annoy after a while.

[Cajuncowboy]

75% of the way there? Wow. Talk about not knowing what one is talking about. Even the most optimistic geologist estimates something like 31 billion barrels of feasibly recoverable oil under our soil and 86 billion offshore under protected areas. We use, as a nation, 7.5 billion barrels a year (using 2007 as the example, this is doubtless to go up in the future). Factor in the time required to drill for it, and we aren't looking at a whole lot. Also factor in the projected need for oil here, in China, in India, etc. and you'll realize that as more oil is discovered, its demand will always be going up, up, up in the meantime. Is it worth doing, yeah. But its not going to be a silver bullet.

I may have not expressed myself clearly. (one of the problems with internet posting) When I say 75% I am referring to the opportunities for our energy issues. We use approx. that amount of our energy dependence on oil. And the drilling our own resources is a major player in that. The remaining 25% or so is in other forms of energy.



Nice strawman. I said nothing of the sort, and in fact, said that I was for EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Again not real clear, but I was referring to those who don't think we need to drill at all, like CW and others have stated.

You and I have our definable differences but I will apologize for including that in the reply to you. That was my bad.

[DIAF]

All you keep saying is everyone knows nothing and you have all the answers.


What I can't figure out at all about you is that I don't know how you ever parted that Red Sea that was in your way back then. I just can't put my finger on it.

Just think of how efficient we would be now if we could only harness the GAS coming out of your dairy-air. Im sure we could get what, 50-80 mpg from it?:p:

Just because you yell louder and say no doesn't make you the king of knowledge.

So please stop w/ "I got it all fingered out" content you keep tossing up like golden boogers. It begins to annoy after a while.

Thanks for this post, which was totally relevant to this discussion.

In case you didnt notice, CC was the one that tossed out the "You don't know anything" gem first. But I assume he gets a pass. It's only blowing smoke and know-it-all-ness when it disagrees with your positions.

[Rogah]

75% of the way there? Wow. Talk about not knowing what one is talking about. Even the most optimistic geologist estimates something like 31 billion barrels of feasibly recoverable oil under our soil and 86 billion offshore under protected areas. We use, as a nation, 7.5 billion barrels a year (using 2007 as the example, this is doubtless to go up in the future). Factor in the time required to drill for it, and we aren't looking at a whole lot.Whu-huh..? Using your own numbers, we have 117 billion barrells of reserves (which is probably understated, but I won't go there here), which would supply us for 15 years. If you ask me, that is a lot.
Also factor in the projected need for oil here, in China, in India, etc. and you'll realize that as more oil is discovered, its demand will always be going up, up, up in the meantime. Is it worth doing, yeah. But its not going to be a silver bullet.Demand will be going up, up, up anyway... so there is no reason to say (paraphrasing) "we shouldn't drill because that will increase demand."

[DIAF]

Whu-huh..? Using your own numbers, we have 117 billion barrells of reserves (which is probably understated, but I won't go there here), which would supply us for 15 years. If you ask me, that is a lot.
Demand will be going up, up, up anyway... so there is no reason to say (paraphrasing) "we shouldn't drill because that will increase demand."

Again, its like some of you aren't reading my posts. I'm not saying we SHOULDNT drill. I'm saying we should.

[burmafrd]

ONLY MORONS are against drilling where oil has already been found in the past: Alaska, off the coasts of California, Florida and in the Gulf of Mexico.

Of course these morons include most libs and emvironmental wacko's.

And all this green bs. THERE HAS BEEN HOW MANY BILLIONS THROWN AT GREEN ENERGY FOR HOW LONG?
Not just here but around the world. Europe especially. And where are all these great breakthroughs Cowboy is seeming to count on?
NOWHERE NEAR.
WE NEED MORE OIL from sources closer and more secure. THE ONLY ONES THAT QUALIFY are what I already mentioned- places that have oil already there.

Because of the wacko's there are no current wells in many places that might have a lot of gas and oil. ALL the DATA is DECADES OLD.
And since then we have learned how to drill better and capture a much greater percentage of the oil that is down there. And we keep getting better at it.
So only the stupid would think there is LESS down there then was thought years ago. AND every single one of those old estimates were shown to be LOW everywhere else. THere is yet to be one of those that OVERESTIMATED what was down there.

So we have enough oil for certain to last us at least 15-20 years. RIght on our shores and on our soil.
ONLY THE STUPID are against getting it.

[DIAF]

So only the stupid would think there is LESS down there then was thought years ago. AND every single one of those old estimates were shown to be LOW everywhere else. THere is yet to be one of those that OVERESTIMATED what was down there.

So we have enough oil for certain to last us at least 15-20 years. RIght on our shores and on our soil.
ONLY THE STUPID are against getting it.

The bolded part isn't entirely accurate. I remember back in the late 80s the gov't estimate of untapped oil reserves was lowered signicantly, like 30% due to the number of strikeouts that companies were drilling on land thought to be goldmines of crude. I remember this because my father's company was one of those that was drilling those dry holes, and the business went bust in late '88 and set our family on a path to misery that didn't end until the mid-90s.

[burmafrd]

And it was then revised upwards later on. NOT to mention the drilling restrictions were already taking hold and already much of the data was aging.

[Cajuncowboy]

The bolded part isn't entirely accurate. I remember back in the late 80s the gov't estimate of untapped oil reserves was lowered signicantly, like 30% due to the number of strikeouts that companies were drilling on land thought to be goldmines of crude. I remember this because my father's company was one of those that was drilling those dry holes, and the business went bust in late '88 and set our family on a path to misery that didn't end until the mid-90s.

Drop shooting dry holes happens in the oil industry, especially with independent companies, more so than major companies. Most of my mother's side of the family have been in the oi industry for over 60 years. And that's always been an issue. The problem is that sometimes they hit, but the majority of the time they miss. That is why it is such a gamble for smaller companies. It was more likely that your father's company was one of those who didn't have the technology to have a better strike rate. That's not an indictment of his company, just a matter of fact that many of those companies faced.

[DIAF]

Drop shooting dry holes happens in the oil industry, especially with independent companies, more so than major companies. Most of my mother's side of the family have been in the oi industry for over 60 years. And that's always been an issue. The problem is that sometimes they hit, but the majority of the time they miss. That is why it is such a gamble for smaller companies. It was more likely that your father's company was one of those who didn't have the technology to have a better strike rate. That's not an indictment of his company, just a matter of fact that many of those companies faced.

That's probably true, but the thing about the 30% lower estimate was big news to the industry back then, so much so that a kid who was 13 at the time remembers it 20 years later.

[Kangaroo]

ONLY MORONS are against drilling where oil has already been found in the past: Alaska, off the coasts of California, Florida and in the Gulf of Mexico.

Of course these morons include most libs and emvironmental wacko's.

And all this green bs. THERE HAS BEEN HOW MANY BILLIONS THROWN AT GREEN ENERGY FOR HOW LONG?
Not just here but around the world. Europe especially. And where are all these great breakthroughs Cowboy is seeming to count on?
NOWHERE NEAR.
WE NEED MORE OIL from sources closer and more secure. THE ONLY ONES THAT QUALIFY are what I already mentioned- places that have oil already there.

Because of the wacko's there are no current wells in many places that might have a lot of gas and oil. ALL the DATA is DECADES OLD.
And since then we have learned how to drill better and capture a much greater percentage of the oil that is down there. And we keep getting better at it.
So only the stupid would think there is LESS down there then was thought years ago. AND every single one of those old estimates were shown to be LOW everywhere else. THere is yet to be one of those that OVERESTIMATED what was down there.

So we have enough oil for certain to last us at least 15-20 years. RIght on our shores and on our soil.
ONLY THE STUPID are against getting it.

The two biggest improvements is horizontal drilling and fractures and we can also do CO2 flooding as well in some old areas (on shore oil is all i know for this unless they came up with a way for offshore I have not heard about) I do it in the Medical field the last couple years before that was 10 years for Oil Companies.

[burmafrd]

Technology for relatively mature industries (whichis what the Oil business is) usually moves along steadily- occasionally with a big jump but usually incremental. The tech at getting the oil out of the ground has followed that path pretty much. We refine the techniques. So any estimate that was made 30-40 years ago will be in reality much lower then what we can get right now.