Illegals raid dismays Obama backers

[trickblue]

Link (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/26/raid-on-immigrants-alarms-obama-backers/)

Illegals raid dismays Obama backers
Rights groups see broken 'commitment' on illegals policy
by Stephen Dinan

Immigrant rights groups blasted President Obama on Wednesday for breaking what they called his "personal commitment" to change Bush-era immigration raids after U.S. authorities raided an engine machine shop in Washington state and detained illegal immigrants.

The Obama administration itself seemed taken aback by the raid by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, with Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano vowing to Congress that she would "get to the bottom of this."

"The secretary is not happy and this is not her policy," a Homeland Security official said Wednesday evening, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the secretary's review is ongoing.

White House spokesman Nick Shapiro said "these raids are not a long-term solution."

"Secretary Napolitano is conducting a thorough review of ICE, including enforcement," Mr. Shapiro said. "The president believes we must respect due process and our best values as we enforce the law. The real answer to our broken immigration system is to fix it. The president has said that we will start the immigration reform debate this year, and this continues to be the plan."

The raid in Bellingham, Wash., was the first major workplace enforcement action since Mr. Obama took office, but the second time a law enforcement action has angered the White House.

A similar backlash ensued earlier this month when the Drug Enforcement Administration raided medical marijuana dispensaries in California, despite Mr. Obama's campaign pledges not to interfere with state laws on the matter. In that instance, the White House said Mr. Obama hadn't put his people in place.

Homeland Security stepped up high-profile immigration work-site raids and took steps to improve border security after Congress in 2007 rejected President Bush´s immigration bill, which would have legalized illegal immigrants and rewritten the rules on future legal immigration.

During last year's presidential campaign, Mr. Obama criticized immigration work-site raids as "ineffective" and said the focus instead should be on employers who hire illegal immigrants.

Immigrant rights groups said this week's raid seemed to go against that.

"This was a fixture of our conversations and demands with him during the campaign. It has always been one that there would be a hold on the raids or a stop to the raids until there was a through review of its effectiveness and whether it has been a fiscally responsible course of action," said Cynthia Buiza, director of policy and advocacy at the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles. "This is all about holding public officials accountable to the things they promised during the campaign."

The National Council of La Raza urged supporters to call the White House and demand Mr. Obama lay out his immigration policy, while the National Immigration Forum said the raid was an unwelcome continuation of Bush administration policies.

"What are Latino and immigrant voters to think? They turn out in massive numbers and vote for change and yet 'change we can believe in' turns out to be 'business as usual,' " said Ali Noorani, executive director of the forum.

He called for a halt to the raids while Homeland Security conducts its review of immigration policies.

In a statement, ICE said the raid was the result of a gang investigation.

"Information derived from two gang members previously arrested in an ICE gang operation led to the initiation of the work-site investigation at Yamato Engine Specialists," said press secretary Kelly Nantel. "Follow-up investigation uncovered a potentially large number of illegally employed workers. ICE conducted the operation in order to identify and if appropriate, apprehend any unauthorized workers and to further determine potential criminal activity."

Mr. Noorani said "ankle chains and helicopters" were both used in the raid, but Ms. Napolitano denied in her testimony to the House Homeland Security Committee that helicopters were used.

She said she had been briefed on the raid, but still has many questions.

"I want to get to the bottom of this as well, so I've already issued those directives to ICE to get me some answers," she said.

She is still getting her key people in place. Mr. Obama nominated John Morton, a Justice Department official, to head ICE earlier this week.

Ms. Napolitano said she expects ICE actions at work sites to focus on employers "who intentionally and knowingly exploit the illegal labor market."

"That has impacts on American workers, it has impacts on wage levels, often has undue impacts on the illegal workers themselves, and our ICE efforts should be focused on those sorts of things and we should really have thought through the prosecutions that are going to result and the deportations that will result after any sort of work-force action," she said.

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, the California Democrat who questioned Miss Napolitano on the raids, said the laws need to be enforced but said raids, including Tuesday's, have swept up legal residents and citizens as well.

"There is concern that Americans have repeatedly, in the past years, been held in some cases for 10 and 11 hours against their will, and it does not seem to comport with the requirements of the law or the Constitution," she said, asking the secretary to address that issue in her review.

[JBond]

God forbid the Department of Homeland Security enforces our laws. I understand Obama and his minions are in favor of illegals taking US citizens jobs and are in favor of identity theft, but to ridicule a department for doing their job is asinine.

[Doomsday101]

We really should not enforce immigration laws :rolleyes:

[Doomsday101]

God forbid the Department of Homeland Security enforces our laws. I understand Obama and his minions are in favor of illegals taking US citizens jobs and are in favor of identity theft, but to ridicule a department for doing their job is asinine.

He is against NAFTA but all in favor of having non US workers taking jobs here.

[tyke1doe]

God forbid the Department of Homeland Security enforces our laws. I understand Obama and his minions are in favor of illegals taking US citizens jobs and are in favor of identity theft, but to ridicule a department for doing their job is asinine.

Where did Obama say he was in favor of illegals taking U.S. jobs? :huh:

[Doomsday101]

Where did Obama say he was in favor of illegals taking U.S. jobs? :huh:

It is not what you say. Hell he can say what he wants it is about actions what will he do about illegal immigration? Will he take a tough stance I highly doubt it but we shall see.

[BrAinPaiNt]

It is not what you say. Hell he can say what he wants it is about actions what will he do about illegal immigration? Will he take a tough stance I highly doubt it but we shall see.

Who was the last president that was really tough on illegal immigration. Not just talking about it but actually doing something about it.

Just an honest question because it seems like they do a lot of talking but the problem never actually seems to get better and it seems to have been that way for some time.

Anymore I think it is nothing more than a political talking point during primaries and elections.

Sad really.

[tyke1doe]

It is not what you say. Hell he can say what he wants it is about actions what will he do about illegal immigration? Will he take a tough stance I highly doubt it but we shall see.

Ohhh. I see. He didn't say it. It's just the inference of some poster who doesn't like Obama.

Got it. ;)

[tyke1doe]

Who was the last president that was really tough on illegal immigration. Not just talking about it but actually doing something about it.

Just an honest question because it seems like they do a lot of talking but the problem never actually seems to get better and it seems to have been that way for some time.

Anymore I think it is nothing more than a political talking point during primaries and elections.

Sad really.

Agreed.

Bush didn't do much about it either. And the reason is simple: Republican and Democratic politicians may talk a good game, but they covet the Hispanic vote. And taking a hard stand against illegal immigration is basically conceding the Hispanic vote to the other party.

[Doomsday101]

Who was the last president that was really tough on illegal immigration. Not just talking about it but actually doing something about it.

Just an honest question because it seems like they do a lot of talking but the problem never actually seems to get better and it seems to have been that way for some time.

Anymore I think it is nothing more than a political talking point during primaries and elections.

Sad really.

I'm not arguing that at all you are right none have done a damn thing about it but that does not mean the American public should not continue to demand it. Illegals do not have the right to come to this country and take jobs period. If people want to go through a process and become citizens then great I wish the best to these people but when our boarders are being flooded with illegal it has to stop. In recent times dems have hollered punish business for hiring them now we have something called e-verify which would allow business to know if a person is here legal or not and yet it is the dems who are now opposed to this. It is like they want to punish business but not give business the tools to know who they are hiring

[tyke1doe]

I'm not arguing that at all you are right none have done a damn thing about it but that does not mean the American public should not continue to demand it. Illegals do not have the right to come to this country and take jobs period. If people want to go through a process and become citizens then great I wish the best to these people but when our boarders are being flooded with illegal it has to stop. In recent times dems have hollered punish business for hiring them now we have something called e-verify which would allow business to know if a person is here legal or not and yet it is the dems who are now opposed to this. It is like they want to punish business but not give business the tools to know who they are hiring

Right, because a good old fashion Social Security Number just doesn't cut it.

Somehow, I feel we've legislated common sense right out the door. Companies know when they're hiring illegals. They just dont want to know.

[Doomsday101]

No you don't get it you seldom do get it. I have seen what Obama ran on and it is pretty much the same watered down policy that we have and in some regards even weaker so yes he is not going to do a damn thing to stop it and if he is not going to stop then yes he has no issue with illegal’s coming to the US taking job. This BS of well bush did it? give me a break because Bush did not do it does not make it somehow alright. It is almost too funny the Obama crowd hollering about Bush but now use the excuse of saying well Bush did it? Chances are you don't live on a boarder state and have no clue what so ever of the affect it has and the cost it places on us.

[Doomsday101]

Right, because a good old fashion Social Security Number just doesn't cut it.

Somehow, I feel we've legislated common sense right out the door. Companies know when they're hiring illegals. They just dont want to know.

SS number? Are you kidding it is not hard to forge document it is done all the time. E-Verify will remove any doubt. Sorry no not always do companies know if they are hiring illegal’s or not and if you’re wrong get ready for the ACLU coming down on employers for questioning a person’s legality.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't care who does it. I just wish it would get fixed.

Heck I am even for fast tracking citizenship if they meet and maintain certain criteria or standards.

But man alive we do not seem to build walls or do much at the border. I would like to get that fixed and then work on the problem of those here.

Like I said...I don't care who does it, I just wish it was more action and less political talk about it.

[vta]

Immigrant rights groups...

:rolleyes:

I think I'll start a muggers rights group. Everyone should enjoy rights, whether or not they are abiding by the laws.

After that I'll start a car jackers rights group, and then a serial killers rights group.

[tyke1doe]

No you don't get it you seldom do get it. I have seen what Obama ran on and it is pretty much the same watered down policy that we have and in some regards even weaker so yes he is not going to do a damn thing to stop it and if he is not going to stop then yes he has no issue with illegal’s coming to the US taking job. This BS of well bush did it? give me a break because Bush did not do it does not make it somehow alright. It is almost too funny the Obama crowd hollering about Bush but now use the excuse of saying well Bush did it? Chances are you don't live on a boarder state and have no clue what so ever of the affect it has and the cost it places on us.

Well, that's your interpretation. I took issue with the emphathetic statement that he favored illegal immigrants taking jobs from American citizens.

As for "taking" jobs from Americans, you mean the jobs that most Americans don't want to do?

And, please, let's stop the "you don't have a clue" arguments. That doesn't nothing to bolster your position.

[Doomsday101]

I don't care who does it. I just wish it would get fixed.

Heck I am even for fast tracking citizenship if they meet and maintain certain criteria or standards.

But man alive we do not seem to build walls or do much at the border. I would like to get that fixed and then work on the problem of those here.

Like I said...I don't care who does it, I just wish it was more action and less political talk about it.

I have no problem with that either. I think the process can and should be speeded up. I'm not against people coming here I only expect people to come to this country legally and paying their fair share. We have a certain obligation to help the poor here we should not have be obligated to fund the poor coming from other countries here illegally but we do and it is costly for the cities and counties along the border.

[tyke1doe]

SS number? Are you kidding it is not hard to forge document it is done all the time. E-Verify will remove any doubt. Sorry no not always do companies know if they are hiring illegal’s or not and if you’re wrong get ready for the ACLU coming down on employers for questioning a person’s legality.

And it's not hard to do a government search on SS numbers either.

As I've said before, companies pretty much know whether they're hiring illegal immigrants or not.

[tyke1doe]

Oh, and for the record, I'm against illegal immigration too.

But the solution is not as simplistic as people want to make it seem.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Oh, and for the record, I'm against illegal immigration too.

But the solution is not as simplistic as people want to make it seem.

The problem IMO is not whether it is a simplistic or hard problem to work on...the problem IMO is that they talk and talk about it but never do anything about it.

What was it a year or two ago they passed some kind of bill to build a fence for a big stretch of the border but goofiest part was they never funded it so it was like...we are going to build a fence but we are not going to pay to get the fence that we are going to build.

Just crazy crap like that. Boy they will talk a big game around election times but soon it is just dropped after they get the votes.

[Doomsday101]

Well, that's your interpretation. I took issue with the emphathetic statement that he favored illegal immigrants taking jobs from American citizens.

As for "taking" jobs from Americans, you mean the jobs that most Americans don't want to do?

And, please, let's stop the "you don't have a clue" arguments. That doesn't nothing to bolster your position.

If you are not going to stop it then regardless if you say it or not does not mean a damn thing. I can say what I want if my actions are different then all the BS in the world does not change what the facts on the ground are.

[Doomsday101]

Oh, and for the record, I'm against illegal immigration too.

But the solution is not as simplistic as people want to make it seem.

It is simpler than you think. You can protect the boarder better than we do. We have military bases in places like Georgia? I don't think Georgia has anything to be concerned with they are not seeing their state invaded. You can deport those who are here illegally. You can allow local law enforcement the ability to arrest those here illegally and you can allow the local courts to enforce it. You can also fine business who are knowingly hiring illegal’s, give them the ability to know who they are hiring remove any doubt and if they still do it then hit them with big fines.

[Rogah]

Well, that's your interpretation. I took issue with the emphathetic statement that he favored illegal immigrants taking jobs from American citizens.

As for "taking" jobs from Americans, you mean the jobs that most Americans don't want to do? This is one of the biggest logical fallacies we often see repreated. There is no such thing as a job "Americans don't want to do" - especially in this economy.

If there were no illegals, there would still be plenty of people to fill the rolls of employment. The only problem is that employers would have to do silly things like actually pay their employees on the books instead of under the table (FICA, Soc. Sec., payroll taxes, insurance, unemployment, etc.)
Oh, and for the record, I'm against illegal immigration too.

But the solution is not as simplistic as people want to make it seem.Well, 99% of the population will say they are "against illegal immigration." The question is, what measures are you willing to support in order to deal with the problem? That's usually where everyone disagrees.

Illegal immigration is the one subject where I turn into a raving, right-wing nutcase. So don't get me started :D

[JBond]

Where did Obama say he was in favor of illegals taking U.S. jobs? :huh:

His decision to not enforce our laws says all we need to know. He has instructed law enforcement to ignore immigration laws. What is so hard to figure out? Are you just trying to sound stupid or is your liberal mental disorder acting up? Obama made a personal commitment to not enforce our laws.

You lame deal about jobs Americans won't do is stupid. Why would they take lower paying jobs when they get their house, utilities, food, medical care, and spending money all for free. What incentive is there for them to get a job? Obama has planned it this way for a reason.

If democrats had to stop giving tax payers money away to buy votes they would never win another election.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Who was the last president that was really tough on illegal immigration. Not just talking about it but actually doing something about it.

Just an honest question because it seems like they do a lot of talking but the problem never actually seems to get better and it seems to have been that way for some time.

Anymore I think it is nothing more than a political talking point during primaries and elections.

Sad really.

Teddy Rosevelt didn't cut em much slack.

:laugh2:

[Dallas]

Where did Obama say he was in favor of illegals taking U.S. jobs? :huh:

If you want to defend that, then please defend the HLS policy on not enforcing our immigration laws.

God forbid this POS administration enforces anything. This country is going further down the toilet every day.


Please defend her stance on enforcement Tyke. We are waiting.

[JBond]

Ohhh. I see. He didn't say it. It's just the inference of some poster who doesn't like Obama.

Got it. ;)

Did you even read the article? This was a raid that had to do with gang activity. Obama and his people were critical of this particular raid. Why is Obama against cracking down on gang members? How much did they contribute to his campaign to deserve special treatment?

[DaBoys4Life]

"What are Latino and immigrant voters to think? They turn out in massive numbers and vote for change and yet 'change we can believe in' turns out to be 'business as usual,' " said Ali Noorani, executive director of the forum.

Oh look and a surprisingly high amount of spanish people voting in the border states....

[ABQCOWBOY]

The problem IMO is not whether it is a simplistic or hard problem to work on...the problem IMO is that they talk and talk about it but never do anything about it.

What was it a year or two ago they passed some kind of bill to build a fence for a big stretch of the border but goofiest part was they never funded it so it was like...we are going to build a fence but we are not going to pay to get the fence that we are going to build.

Just crazy crap like that. Boy they will talk a big game around election times but soon it is just dropped after they get the votes.


As I recall BP, it died because of the cost associated with it. Now, I realize that was then and this is now but it's just weired how budget issues and cost issues were considered more closely then as opposed to now. Today, cost is an after thought. Then, it was not. As I recall, the Democratic House killed that Bill because it never received the funding.

[BrAinPaiNt]

As I recall BP, it died because of the cost associated with it. Now, I realize that was then and this is now but it's just weired how budget issues and cost issues were considered more closely then as opposed to now. Today, cost is an after thought. Then, it was not. As I recall, the Democratic House killed that Bill because it never received the funding.

It's one of those things that I get the feeling is nothing but lip service and election talking points by both sides.

I know I find it frustrating and I imagine you guys down there close to the border have to find it maddening.

[ScipioCowboy]

I don't care who does it. I just wish it would get fixed.

Heck I am even for fast tracking citizenship if they meet and maintain certain criteria or standards.

But man alive we do not seem to build walls or do much at the border. I would like to get that fixed and then work on the problem of those here.

Like I said...I don't care who does it, I just wish it was more action and less political talk about it.

Those types of suggestions are normally laughed down and decried as xenophobic or racist.

[Doomsday101]

It's one of those things that I get the feeling is nothing but lip service and election talking points by both sides.

I know I find it frustrating and I imagine you guys down there close to the border have to find it maddening.

Yes it is maddening. Many here in Texas feel as I do that if the US Government will not do their job then the State of Texas should.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Those types of suggestions are normally laughed down and decried as xenophobic or racist.

...and?

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's one of those things that I get the feeling is nothing but lip service and election talking points by both sides.

I know I find it frustrating and I imagine you guys down there close to the border have to find it maddening.


I'll be honest with you BP. The thing that I find insulting is the fact that illegal immigration and the amount of work and aid that results from that immigration is significant. I honestly don't have a problem with illegals trying to get work that most Americans probably wouldn't do. I mean, I know that there is a balance, of sorts, behind that whole thing.

However, illegals come over, they get paid under the table, they don't pay taxes, they send this money home and they have children here in the states. Now, those children become the responsability of the State Tax Payers. So, we put them through school, we feed them, we tend to their medical needs and they grow up with all the benifits of an American Citizen.

This is a cost that we take care of. It's a kind of trade of. They do the work most Americans wont. In return, they receive the benifits outlined above. It's not a great life, I understand that but then again, it's much better then they have in Mexico and it's all tax free. One Generation suffers so that the follow on gets opportunity.

Now, the Left comes in and basically says that this is not good enough. They want more but they have no concept of how it really works. Most Mexicans, don't want to become citizens. They want the ability to have their children taken care of while still being able to work tax free. Most of these illegals don't have the education or the where with all to get higher paying jobs so becoming a citizen is a disadvantage to them. They will still get the same jobs but they will have to pay taxes. This is not what they want.

So, now we have Government coming in and telling us what needs to happen. They will make us fund all sorts of programs designed to help these illegals get ahead, so to speak, but the illegals will not take advantage of it because they don't want to be citizens. Of course, their are some who would like to be citizens but those folks go through the process of becoming citizens so it's a different set of circumstances for them. I just think it's rediculous. All that will end up happening is that we will be forced to pay for these programs, the illegals will take advantage of what is given but they will never become citizens so it will basically be like throwing money away.

I'm just glad it's Friday.

:)

[DaBoys4Life]

Yes it is maddening. Many here in Texas feel as I do that if the US Government will not do their job then the State of Texas should.

...and?

Get sued for protecting your property and family?

[BrAinPaiNt]

ABQ...this is one of those things that you will find we pretty much agree with as a whole. :cool:

[ScipioCowboy]

...and?

It's the reason the wall proposal doesn't get more traction. In the '96 election, Pat Buchanan ran on a platform that included building a wall along the border. He was derided mercilessly.

I'm not denouncing the idea. I'm only explaining why it hasn't happened yet.

[BrAinPaiNt]

It's the reason the wall proposal doesn't get more traction. In the '96 election, Pat Buchanan ran on a platform that included building a wall along the border. He was derided mercilessly.

I'm not denouncing the idea. I'm only explaining why it hasn't happened yet.

Yet in the last primary I believe the majority in the republican primary were making immigration and border security one of the top issues.

Then that topic was barely even spoken about during the whole presidential election (of course the economy took over).

There are ways to go about it. Some people might go too far when talking about it and get attached rightfully so, others if done in the correct way don't need to worry about it because people would see through any cries of racism.

Personally if someone thinks I am a racist because I would better border security and better solutions to illegal immigration (or heck even to enforce existing laws)...that's on them because I know I am not a racist and I detest those that are.

Sometimes you got to get that W mentality and say...screw what others think.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yet in the last primary I believe the majority in the republican primary were making immigration and border security one of the top issues.

Then that topic was barely even spoken about during the whole presidential election (of course the economy took over).

There are ways to go about it. Some people might go too far when talking about it and get attached rightfully so, others if done in the correct way don't need to worry about it because people would see through any cries of racism.

Personally if someone thinks I am a racist because I would better border security and better solutions to illegal immigration (or heck even to enforce existing laws)...that's on them because I know I am not a racist and I detest those that are.

Sometimes you got to get that W mentality and say...screw what others think.


The reason the Republicans didn't really make this a major issue is the same reason the Democrats want to pass this rediculous Amnisty Bill. The Republicans wanted and needed the Hispanic Vote so they didn't want to push that issue.

Now, the Democrats, IMO, are trying to consolidate their Party Power Structure in the U.S. They believe that if you allow more Illegals into this country, for a song and dance, then they will create a strong Pro Democratic Vote for the forseeable future. They also believe that they can create a whole new taxible population source. They are wrong on both sides of this issue IMO.

JMO of course

[ShiningStar]

Oh, and for the record, I'm against illegal immigration too.

But the solution is not as simplistic as people want to make it seem.


Are you still for the fact that everyone is mad at the agency for doing its job tho. You come quickly to the defense of Obama, but hes still irked they did their job.

Thats where i have the beef with. That this people did their job and now they get hounded for doing it.

[Doomsday101]

Get sued for protecting your property and family?

Not enough people stand up and say enough is enough. I don't blame the boarder issue on Obama as BP said this has been going on for a long time and every year political season promises are made but never kept. Enough is enough respect our sovereignty.

[ZeroClub]

Obama's approach to illegal immigration focuses on employers who hire illegals immigrants rather than on work-site enforcement. Apparently there are some headstrong folks in Homeland Security who think that their opinions matter more than the President's. So now they'll get nailed for their arrogance. As well they should.

[Doomsday101]

Obama's approach to illegal immigration focuses on employers who hire illegals immigrants rather than on work-site enforcement. Apparently there are some headstrong folks in Homeland Security who think that their opinions matter more than the President's. So now they'll get nailed for their arrogance. As well they should.

His approch is employers? then allow them the tool of e-verify. Right now Washington is not doing a damn thing about it and at this point and time it is still the law and it should be enforced.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Obama's approach to illegal immigration focuses on employers who hire illegals immigrants rather than on work-site enforcement. Apparently there are some headstrong folks in Homeland Security who think that their opinions matter more than the President's. So now they'll get nailed for their arrogance. As well they should.


At what point do the concerns of the citizens become of importance? I mean, I understand what you are saying but policy designed to make Homeland Security pay, at the expense of the citizens is not good policy.

At the end of the day, they all work for us. From the President on down, they all work for us. That is a singular fact that nobody seems to care about anymore and that's sad. I think the President and Congress should realize that the approach they seem to be taking is not any better then the one they seem to be pissed off over.

[Doomsday101]

At what point do the concerns of the citizens become of importance? I mean, I understand what you are saying but policy designed to make Homeland Security pay, at the expense of the citizens is not good policy.

At the end of the day, they all work for us. From the President on down, they all work for us. That is a singular fact that nobody seems to care about anymore and that's sad. I think the President and Congress should realize that the approach they seem to be taking is not any better then the one they seem to be pissed off over.

He can go after business all he wants but at the end of the day these people are still illegal and do not belong here. This is our country and our laws should be respected. If any of us go to another country we are expected to abide by their laws why should it be any different here? I'm sick of the Washington DC run a round and the bleeding heart liberals. You want these people to have a better life in Mexico? Then fix Mexico don’t pander to them!!!

[Rogah]

You know what I would love? If the United States government treated Mexican illegals the way the Mexican government treated their Guatemalan illegals.

[jimmy40]

It's one of those things that I get the feeling is nothing but lip service and election talking points by both sides.

I know I find it frustrating and I imagine you guys down there close to the border have to find it maddening.http://holamun2.com/files/images/attachments/2007/08/they-cant-deport-us-all.jpg

[Doomsday]

Oh, and for the record, I'm against illegal immigration too.

But the solution is not as simplistic as people want to make it seem.

Maybe not but condemning the actions of immigration authorities for doing their jobs is ridiculous.

Obama's approach to illegal immigration focuses on employers who hire illegals immigrants rather than on work-site enforcement. Apparently there are some headstrong folks in Homeland Security who think that their opinions matter more than the President's. So now they'll get nailed for their arrogance. As well they should.

Well Obama's wishes dont supersede the Laws of this country if homeland security knows that there are illegals they should make every effort to find them and send em home, if that means going to businesses that are known to employ them, then so be it.

I have a novel idea. Instead of spending a trillion dollars a year on health care, education etc. for illegals, how about we use that money to get them out and keep them out of our country unless they come here through legal means.

Another problem with that hardly ever gets mentioned is that a lot of illegals come here to work and end up sending a lot of the money they make back to Mexico to support their families there, which means it isnt being funneled back into our economy.

[ZeroClub]

Maybe not but condemning the actions of immigration authorities for doing their jobs is ridiculous.

Well, they aren't doing their jobs, are they? What they are doing isn't working.

The current administration wants to try a different approach and is pissed that the authorities are continuing with their ineffective ham-fisted raids -- and doing so with full knowledge that their actions are at odds with what the President wants them to do.

That's what this is about.

[burmafrd]

They are enforcing the law the only way they are allowed to at this time. So ZERO you want them to just sit on their hands and ignore law breaking. BRILLIANT.
And you say its not working. How do YOU know that? read it on daily kos or on Move On. ORg?
These people are breaking the law. The government agency that is tasked with enforcing that law is being told to ignore it. ANd you are OK with that?

[trickblue]

Well, they aren't doing their jobs, are they? What they are doing isn't working.

The current administration wants to try a different approach and is pissed that the authorities are continuing with their ineffective ham-fisted raids -- and doing so with full knowledge that their actions are at odds with what the President wants them to do.

That's what this is about.

It's hard to do your job when those in power discourage you from doing so...

The myriad of lawsuits, "immigrant" rights groups and politicians wanting Latino votes puts those in the immigration departments behind the eight ball. It's a prime example of why government shouldn't have their greedy, inept fingers in every aspect of our lives...

The president, whoever he may be, has no right to circumvent our constitutional rights in order to promote a power agenda...

I am married to an immigrant. A woman that went through the proper channels to become a citizen of this country. Nothing makes her more angry than those that circumvent our laws and then use the courts and our money to stay here illegally...

[JBond]

Well, they aren't doing their jobs, are they? What they are doing isn't working.

The current administration wants to try a different approach and is pissed that the authorities are continuing with their ineffective ham-fisted raids -- and doing so with full knowledge that their actions are at odds with what the President wants them to do.

That's what this is about.

So what is wrong with E-verify? Why is that a bad idea? Why are the liberals not making it mandatory? Follow up with job site visits and fine the crap out of the violators. But you must make E-verify mandatory. You must cover both ends. Libs are all about government solutions and this is one of the few that may show some results. You must reduce the incentive to try to come here illegally. There are legal means to achieve citizenship.

[ZeroClub]

So what is wrong with E-verify? Why is that a bad idea? Why are the liberals not making it mandatory? Follow up with job site visits and fine the crap out of the violators. But you must make E-verify mandatory. You must cover both ends. Libs are all about government solutions and this is one of the few that may show some results. You must reduce the incentive to try to come here illegally. There are legal means to achieve citizenship.

There is a variety of concerns about E-verify (error rate -- legals who are not confirmed as legal due to data errors --, costs, the (in)ability of system to support rapid expansion, privacy issues, etc. ... here's something from the CATO Institute on the topic - http://www.cato.org/dailypodcast/podcast-archive.php?podcast_id=781).

During the election, Obama mentioned interest in an electronic verification system. Apparently Napolitano was on board with E-verify when she was Governor of Arizona. ... so maybe it'll happen.

But with everything else that's going on these days, I can't imagine that E-verify would crack the administration's list of top 10 things that need to be addressed ASAP.

[tyke1doe]

Maybe not but condemning the actions of immigration authorities for doing their jobs is ridiculous.

When did I do that? :huh:


Well Obama's wishes dont supersede the Laws of this country if homeland security knows that there are illegals they should make every effort to find them and send em home, if that means going to businesses that are known to employ them, then so be it.

And let's impose penalties against the businesses that hire these illegal immigrants also? You with that?


I have a novel idea. Instead of spending a trillion dollars a year on health care, education etc. for illegals, how about we use that money to get them out and keep them out of our country unless they come here through legal means.

And let's also crack down on businesses that hire illegals. And while we're at it, let's get both Republican and Democratic politicians to stop winking at the problem because they want the Hispanic vote and have them adopt legislation to take care of the problem. And let's get all these Americans whose jobs are being taken from illegals to apply for these jobs and stop treating them as if they're beneath them? And how about if we know we're buying from illegals to stop doing so just because the products are cheaper?



Another problem with that hardly ever gets mentioned is that a lot of illegals come here to work and end up sending a lot of the money they make back to Mexico to support their families there, which means it isnt being funneled back into our economy.

That's really not the fault of the illegals. That's the fault of employers who are paying strictly cash. If an illegal or any person is paid via a work check, that money should be taxed - which means it is funneled back into the economy.

Aside from that, you can't tell people how they spend their money. You really don't want to go down that road do you?

[tyke1doe]

Are you still for the fact that everyone is mad at the agency for doing its job tho. You come quickly to the defense of Obama, but hes still irked they did their job.

I merely asked where did Obama say he was in favor of illegal immigration. That's not defending Obama.


Thats where i have the beef with. That this people did their job and now they get hounded for doing it.

That's a separate beef from my point. I don't criticize the government for doing its job.

[ShiningStar]

I merely asked where did Obama say he was in favor of illegal immigration. That's not defending Obama.



That's a separate beef from my point. I don't criticize the government for doing its job.


He said it by telling the americans, as least the story i read on here, that he was putting money aside for mexicans that run here when the and if the country collapses, as if to say we know you are going to run here so ill have the money ready for you to gorge upon when you arrive. Houses to the left, money to the right, jobs provided, and dont worry about a thing.

Yeah, Obama pretty much told us illegals will be taken care of.

[tyke1doe]

He said it by telling the americans, as least the story i read on here, that he was putting money aside for mexicans that run here when the and if the country collapses, as if to say we know you are going to run here so ill have the money ready for you to gorge upon when you arrive. Houses to the left, money to the right, jobs provided, and dont worry about a thing.

Yeah, Obama pretty much told us illegals will be taken care of.

Link please?

[Rack Bauer]

We really should not enforce immigration laws :rolleyes:

Exactly. So the president isn't happy cuz Customs is doing their job?


Someone tell me... why do illegal immigrants have rights? They aren't citizens of our country, they should have no US specific rights. They should get their basic human rights, that's it. Let their own countries worry about their rights.

[ShiningStar]

Link please?


http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146738


read that, brb with more

[tyke1doe]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146738


read that, brb with more

That link doesn't support your contention that Obama is putting away money for Mexicans that run here. :confused:

The story basically states that the Democrats struck down the E-verification. Now you may disagree with that, but is the stimulus bill where that should be discussed and addressed something as serious as illegal immigration, especially when even its critics question its reliability?

U.S. Rep. John Spratt, a Democrat from York County, S.C., has voted for verification systems and supported the House bill with the E-Verify provision included. But he noted, “I don't think E-Verify should be made mandatory until it is made accurate and reliable.”

[Doomsday]

And let's impose penalties against the businesses that hire these illegal immigrants also? You with that?

I am all for imposing penalties for business that hire illegals or any person who doesnt have a valid Social Security Number or Work Visa. These companies are breaking the law.


That's really not the fault of the illegals. That's the fault of employers who are paying strictly cash. If an illegal or any person is paid via a work check, that money should be taxed - which means it is funneled back into the economy.

Aside from that, you can't tell people how they spend their money. You really don't want to go down that road do you?

Im not saying it is the fault of illegals that they are sending money back to Mexico but I am saying that it definitely contributes the overall economy, even if it is a minor influence.

I think it irritates most citizens that we are stuck fitting the bill for people who break into our country. As far as Im concerned the only rights illegals have is the right to get out of our Country. The problem is going to get worse and worse until the US takes a hard line against illegal immigration or Mexico some how becomes something besides a third world country(wishful thinking).