My perfect draft scenario (includes Ellis trade)

[irvin4evs]

Doesn't include Mitch King, so the title is a lie (obviously).

Alright, so there's two trades; one is for a determined spot, the other is vague. Here they are.

-#68 (Cleveland) + Greg Ellis to the Bengals for #36

-Miami's 6th, Our two non-comp 5th rounders and our 4th rounder to move to the bottom of the 3rd.

This leaves us with eight draft picks. #36, #52, Detroit's 4th, the undetermined early 4th/late 3rd, and comp picks in the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds.


2nd round (#36): Clint Sintim, OLB Virginia
-I know everyone's got a major thing over Sidbury right now, but Sintim's experience in a sophisticated 3-4 means he can really push for a starting spot right away.

2nd round (#51): Jairus Byrd, CB/FS Oregon
-If we are serious about Scandrick at safety, we need another corner. If we aren't serious about Scandrick at safety, maybe this guy can play it. He also takes care of the void at punt returner.

Bottom of the 3rd round: Derrick Williams, WR Penn State
-This one is a stretch, but I'm hoping his poor workout and the more impressive numbers from the likes of Demetrius Byrd, Johnny Knox and Deon Butler can get him to fall to us. He's an ideal slot receiver and would improve our return game immensely.

4th round (Detroit): Jonathan Casillas, LB/SS Wisconsin
-I'm skeptical that he can't play next to James for us--he took on blockers well at Wisconsin and can still add weight while maintaining his fantastic speed. If he can't, he makes a decent project at safety and greatly improves our special teams coverage in the meantime.

5th round (comp): DeAndre Levy, LB Wisconsin
-This guy definitely CAN play next to James, and he can play at OLB, too. He has experience as an edge rusher and is a smart player with good athleticism. Apparently he has recently bulked up to the 240 range.

6th round (comp): Andy Kemp, G Wisconsin
-He may go earlier than this, but his poor workout times may make him drop. If he succeeds it will be because of his strength and smarts.

7th round (Detroit): Londen Fryar, CB Western Michigan
-Delmas' teammate has a good amount of experience and was pretty productive.

7th round (Comp): Terence Moore, S Troy
-Playing alongside Sherrod Martin, Moore picked off 6 passes last year.

[SLATEmosphere]

I like it alot..maybe instead of Casillas maybe Phillips or Jason Williams?

But overall I wouldn't be upset if this went down. I like Sintims experience is a 3-4 like Canty was.

[Chris in Arizona]

3 Wisconsin players?

So here's my mock then...

2 Clay Matthews ILB USC
3 Fili Moala DE USC
4a Cary Harris CB USC
4b Patrick Turner WR USC
5a Kyle Moore DE/OLB USC
5b Kevin Ellison S USC
6 Kaluka Maiava ILB USC
7a David Buehler K USC
7b Jeff Scweiger DE/OLB San Jose State (transferred from USC)

:)

Back to your mock, I'm not a Casillas fan at all. I think he would be okay as a WOLB in a 4-3 (Dexter Coakley) but that's it.

Sintim would be a great pick.

[RS12]

love the first three, hate the rest. Cant see them not taking a D Lineman. Also think whatever O Lineman they take will be a tackle or play multiple positions, Max Unger type. Dont see them taking three guys from Wisconsin.

[PokerPro]

2nd round (#36): Clint Sintim, OLB Virginia
-I know everyone's got a major thing over Sidbury right now, but Sintim's experience in a sophisticated 3-4 means he can really push for a starting spot right away.


I'll bet my 1st born child we WILL NOT be drafting an O.L.B. with our top pick, that's just RETARDED, why has EVERYONE forgot about Anthony Spencer?


One question, where's the N.T.?
N.T. shoudl and is our #1 priority in this draft, cause we have NO ONE else on our team other then Ratliff, and if he gets hurt we're SCREWED, so I will also bet my 2nd child we will be drafting a N.T. with one of our top 3 picks, that I can guarantee you, but NO WAY in a million years we don't draft ANY N.T. when we only have Ratliff on our team, unless you wanna count Junior Saavi who couldn't make our team last year, so N.T. WILL be one of our top 3 picks and NO WAY in a MILLION YEARS with or without Ellis would we use our top pick on an O.L.b.!
.

[Q_the_man]

:bang2:

-Miami's 6th, Our two non-comp 5th rounders and our 4th rounder to move to the bottom of the 3rd.



Not even close to perfect, one reason why, U CANNOT TRADE COMP PICKS......Back to the drawing board......:banghead:

[SLATEmosphere]

:bang2:

Not even close to perfect, one reason why, U CANNOT TRADE COMP PICKS......Back to the drawing board......:banghead:

If you read closely it says "Two NON-COMP 5th rounders"..Don't worry I made that mistake too..

[TLCC]

I'll bet my 1st born child we WILL NOT be drafting an O.L.B. with our top pick, that's just RETARDED, why has EVERYONE forgot about Anthony Spencer?

.

I'll take this bet!!! Under, the following conditions. I believe the odds are the Cowboys won't take an OLB with the first pick. So I want 5-1 or 6-1 odds that they take an OLB with the first round pick. Now since I'm not going to have 5 or 6 kids I can't offer you my 5th or 6th born kid. So how about my wife's cat and a dollar off coupon for a Quizno sub.

[PokerPro]

I'll take this bet!!! Under, the following conditions. I believe the odds are the Cowboys won't take an OLB with the first pick. So I want 5-1 or 6-1 odds that they take an OLB with the first round pick. Now since I'm not going to have 5 or 6 kids I can't offer you my 5th or 6th born kid. So how about my wife's cat and a dollar off coupon for a Quizno sub.



I'll make any bet you'd like, of course it's the net and there's no way of paying other then a sig bet, but anyhting you want, cause there's nO FREAKIN WAY in a MILLION YEARS we use our top pick on CAREER BACKUP barring injury, if I did know you and we could bet, sure, I believe I would give you 6-1 odds on this, I am so confident there's no way in a million years we use a top pick on an O.L.B. that I'd probably give you 15-1 odds, cause we already have our starting bookends in place with Ware and Spencer.

[Bob Sacamano]

Derrick Williams did much better at his Pro Day, wasn't bothered by the flu like he was at the Combine

after the 1st 4 picks and up to Terrence Moore, not impressed

[PokerPro]

Derrick Williams did much better at his Pro Day, wasn't bothered by the flu like he was at the Combine

after the 1st 4 picks and up to Terrence Moore, not impressed

what did he run at pro day?

[punit328]

is the Casillas guy any relation to Tony Casillas by any chance? Anyways i like the pick, i would like to see us take a hybrid safety/LB. Wasnt Woodson a Hybrid when he first joined us?

[AbeBeta]

so Ellis' value is like a high 3rd round pick?

right.......

[TheCount]

I'll bet my 1st born child we WILL NOT be drafting an O.L.B. with our top pick, that's just RETARDED, why has EVERYONE forgot about Anthony Spencer?


One question, where's the N.T.?
N.T. shoudl and is our #1 priority in this draft, cause we have NO ONE else on our team other then Ratliff, and if he gets hurt we're SCREWED, so I will also bet my 2nd child we will be drafting a N.T. with one of our top 3 picks, that I can guarantee you, but NO WAY in a million years we don't draft ANY N.T. when we only have Ratliff on our team, unless you wanna count Junior Saavi who couldn't make our team last year, so N.T. WILL be one of our top 3 picks and NO WAY in a MILLION YEARS with or without Ellis would we use our top pick on an O.L.b.!
.

lol, alright Nostradamus. Relax.

[PokerPro]

lol, alright Nostradamus. Relax.

Don't need to be Nostradamus, all you need is COMMON SENSE to figure that one out.
Am I Nostradamus that we won't be picking a T.E./Q.B./R.B. with our top pick also, or is that just COMMON SENSE?

[SDogo]

what did he run at pro day?

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149105

[dbair1967]

so Ellis' value is like a high 3rd round pick?

right.......

Could be, depening on who's doing the trading.

A team desperate for pass rush help that didnt get one in round one or two might be very tempted to trade a 3rd for Ellis...someone say like, the Bengals. Or it could be a deal where they (whomever) gives us that fairly high 3rd and we give them Ellis and a late rd pick this yr or next yr.

[irvin4evs]

Well now I feel bad about myself.

[RESIN8]

If we spend another first day pick on an OLB we will concede that Spencer will follow in the footsteps of Booby. And for those who hate the idea of Chung, wait till you see Byrd in action.

[silverbear]

Doesn't include Mitch King, so the title is a lie (obviously).

Alright, so there's two trades; one is for a determined spot, the other is vague. Here they are.

-#68 (Cleveland) + Greg Ellis to the Bengals for #36

-Miami's 6th, Our two non-comp 5th rounders and our 4th rounder to move to the bottom of the 3rd.

This leaves us with eight draft picks. #36, #52, Detroit's 4th, the undetermined early 4th/late 3rd, and comp picks in the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds.


2nd round (#36): Clint Sintim, OLB Virginia
-I know everyone's got a major thing over Sidbury right now, but Sintim's experience in a sophisticated 3-4 means he can really push for a starting spot right away.

2nd round (#51): Jairus Byrd, CB/FS Oregon
-If we are serious about Scandrick at safety, we need another corner. If we aren't serious about Scandrick at safety, maybe this guy can play it. He also takes care of the void at punt returner.

Bottom of the 3rd round: Derrick Williams, WR Penn State
-This one is a stretch, but I'm hoping his poor workout and the more impressive numbers from the likes of Demetrius Byrd, Johnny Knox and Deon Butler can get him to fall to us. He's an ideal slot receiver and would improve our return game immensely.

4th round (Detroit): Jonathan Casillas, LB/SS Wisconsin
-I'm skeptical that he can't play next to James for us--he took on blockers well at Wisconsin and can still add weight while maintaining his fantastic speed. If he can't, he makes a decent project at safety and greatly improves our special teams coverage in the meantime.

5th round (comp): DeAndre Levy, LB Wisconsin
-This guy definitely CAN play next to James, and he can play at OLB, too. He has experience as an edge rusher and is a smart player with good athleticism. Apparently he has recently bulked up to the 240 range.

6th round (comp): Andy Kemp, G Wisconsin
-He may go earlier than this, but his poor workout times may make him drop. If he succeeds it will be because of his strength and smarts.

7th round (Detroit): Londen Fryar, CB Western Michigan
-Delmas' teammate has a good amount of experience and was pretty productive.

7th round (Comp): Terence Moore, S Troy
-Playing alongside Sherrod Martin, Moore picked off 6 passes last year.

A little too defense heavy there, I think, yet it doesn't address the NT position... I'm thinking 3 LBs and 3 DBs is a bit of overkill...

[silverbear]

3 Wisconsin players?

So here's my mock then...

2 Clay Matthews ILB USC
3 Fili Moala DE USC
4a Cary Harris CB USC
4b Patrick Turner WR USC
5a Kyle Moore DE/OLB USC
5b Kevin Ellison S USC
6 Kaluka Maiava ILB USC
7a David Buehler K USC
7b Jeff Scweiger DE/OLB San Jose State (transferred from USC)

:)

Well, that's just absurd... a more realistic, and effective, draft would look like this:

1) Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB, Texas... you package the Boys' second, third, both fourths, a fifth and a sixth with Greg Ellis to move up into the top 10 to get him...

5) Quan Cosby, WR/KR, Texas... compensatory pick...

6) Roy Miller, NT, Texas... compensatory pick...

7a) Ryan Palmer, CB, Texas...

7b) Derrick Dockery, OG, Texas...

Championship... :D

Actually, all 5 of those players would stand a good chance of making the 53 man roster...

[silverbear]

what did he run at pro day?

A little under 4.4 seconds, from what I've read... a considerable improvement from what he ran at the combine, which IIRC was just under 4.65...

He also did 3 more lifts on the bench than he did at the combine...

[Bob Sacamano]

A little under 4.4 seconds, from what I've read... a considerable improvement from what he ran at the combine, which IIRC was just under 4.65...

He also did 3 more lifts on the bench than he did at the combine...

FYI, Derrick was battling the flu at the Combine

thought maybe you didn't know, alot of people don't

[Zaxor]

No disrepect meant to the OP but I don't like it at all

[dmoore]

You get points for the Fryer pick. He has been very good the past couple of years at WMU. I have a feeling he's going to stick around somewhere.

[slotshot]

I am surpised I didn't see more nay-sayers with regards to the value of Ellis and trading him and our traded-for 3rd for a very high second. I would LOVE it, don't get me wrong, but I don't see that much value for Ellis. Perhaps Ellis and Crayton or Hurd?? Also, if we traded up that high I would want to go for one of those OTs.

My 2 cents.

[irvin4evs]

It's definitely wishful thinking, hence the thread title.

Still, the league has been going nuts giving huge contracts to mediocre DE's lately (including the Bengals), and I thought the Zimmer connection might make it happen.

[jterrell]

Don't need to be Nostradamus, all you need is COMMON SENSE to figure that one out.
Am I Nostradamus that we won't be picking a T.E./Q.B./R.B. with our top pick also, or is that just COMMON SENSE?

If we trade Ellis we will almost certainly be drafting a DE/OLB very high.

Spencer is on the roster but we have 2 OLB/DE on the roster other than Ellis. So it is a definite need area.

And what has Spencer done to prove he deserves to be a starting OLB? His practice habits and off the field are a concern, his production has been nearly nil and he hasn't been healthy.

The only thing keeping the calls of bust from being attached to him are the fact everyone hates Greg Ellis and we have Barbie Carpenter to really define bust for us.

The guy has 70 total tackles an 4.5 sacks over 2 years. In the same span Ellis has 67 tackles and 20.5 sacks.

The next DE/OLB drafted AFTER Spencer? Lamarr Woodley... in 2 years he has 74 tackles and 15.5 sacks.

[jterrell]

It's definitely wishful thinking, hence the thread title.

Still, the league has been going nuts giving huge contracts to mediocre DE's lately (including the Bengals), and I thought the Zimmer connection might make it happen.

A team that wants Ellis will probably need a pass rusher right this second to help them win. A team like the Redskins makes a lot of sense. Or the Patriots.

Someone with lots of picks and a desire to win now.

The Bengals are going to be bad for a while.

All that said as a 3rd down DE Greg Ellis should have legit NFL value, I can see him being traded provided it returns us a DE/OLB.

[L-O-Jete]

A team that wants Ellis will probably need a pass rusher right this second to help them win. A team like the Redskins makes a lot of sense. Or the Patriots.

Someone with lots of picks and a desire to win now.

The Bengals are going to be bad for a while.

All that said as a 3rd down DE Greg Ellis should have legit NFL value, I can see him being traded provided it returns us a DE/OLB.


Ellis to the pats for one of their gazillion 2nd rounders :laugh1:

[Chris in Arizona]

I keep thinking we will deal Ellis to Carolina. If (once) they lose Peppers they are going to need a quick fix at DE and Ellis would fill that. Plus, he played his college ball at North Carolina and is from there as well.


I'm not saying we will trade him for Peppers. I'm just suggesting they would have an interest in him once they move Peppers.

[AbeBeta]

Could be, depening on who's doing the trading.

A team desperate for pass rush help that didnt get one in round one or two might be very tempted to trade a 3rd for Ellis...someone say like, the Bengals. Or it could be a deal where they (whomever) gives us that fairly high 3rd and we give them Ellis and a late rd pick this yr or next yr.

why would a desperate team a) not have gone after a free agent or b) not just package those picks to move up in the draft and get someone 12 years younger?

[dalengal]

Why no nose tackle?:stop:

[dwmyers]

A team that wants Ellis will probably need a pass rusher right this second to help them win. A team like the Redskins makes a lot of sense. Or the Patriots.

Someone with lots of picks and a desire to win now.

The Bengals are going to be bad for a while.

All that said as a 3rd down DE Greg Ellis should have legit NFL value, I can see him being traded provided it returns us a DE/OLB.

I suspect Ellis is at the age (33 now, 34 when the season starts) where he has more value to us than he does to anyone else.

Grant Wistrom.. where is he these days? Vonnie Holliday, whom some trumpeted as a superior Greg Ellis.. What team is he playing with?