Your view on the role of government

[VCDefectors]

I know there are quite a few of you who only want the government to provide a military and the "market" take care of the rest. And I'm sure everyone has some list, however small, of other bureaucratic needs you feel the government is better equipped to handle.

Me personally, I was actually relieved to know that after Wall Street took a big dump on the American public, that we have a government in place that is big and powerful enough to smooth out of the occasional rough sailing in Capitalist Land Inc. I absolutely love the Federal Reserve!! So what if they are not perfect. My only wish is that Bernake could wear a crown and have one of those mobile thrones that could be hoisted upon the backs of a few Wall Street boys.

I know some of you fear the future of America as eroding into a socialist pile of poop. And if the followers of such an assessment turn out to be correct, I say fear not. A little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody. Besides, what we may be witnessing may be inevitable anyway. The great Karl "Groucho" Marx had stated many times in many different ways that socialism is the inevitable consequence in a capitalist society. After all, it takes greater and greater doses of socialism to make capitalism work. Eventually communism will rear its ugly head back into the global mainstream.

That is the very thing that I am referring to when I give some of you a hard time about not living in reality. You rugged individualists out there might as well be making plans to build rockets to colonize the moon, because the old west frontier days and unbridled individual freedom have long been over. You know it and I know it. So relax. Have some fun with it. Learn to love drab colors and radical speeches.

OK, so that is my view on the role of government. Please kindly add yours. Feel free to disagree, but keep it above the cyber waistline and refrain from personal attacks. And if there happens to be some part of you that feels the irresistable urge to mock any part of this post, please know that this is just another one of those past scripts running in your brain (i.e. no basis in reality).

Thank you for your cooperation. -VCD

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://www.asseenontvguys.com/ProductImages/TATER_MITTS_AS_SEEN_ON_TV.jpg

If only the government invented and sold this great product.
We would solve all of our financial woes.

[ThaBigP]

I know there are quite a few of you who only want the government to provide a military and the "market" take care of the rest. And I'm sure everyone has some list, however small, of other bureaucratic needs you feel the government is better equipped to handle.

Me personally, I was actually relieved to know that after Wall Street took a big dump on the American public, that we have a government in place that is big and powerful enough to smooth out of the occasional rough sailing in Capitalist Land Inc. I absolutely love the Federal Reserve!! So what if they are not perfect. My only wish is that Bernake could wear a crown and have one of those mobile thrones that could be hoisted upon the backs of a few Wall Street boys.

I know some of you fear the future of America as eroding into a socialist pile of poop. And if the followers of such an assessment turn out to be correct, I say fear not. A little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody. Besides, what we may be witnessing may be inevitable anyway. The great Karl "Groucho" Marx had stated many times in many different ways that socialism is the inevitable consequence in a capitalist society. After all, it takes greater and greater doses of socialism to make capitalism work. Eventually communism will rear its ugly head back into the global mainstream.

That is the very thing that I am referring to when I give some of you a hard time about not living in reality. You rugged individualists out there might as well be making plans to build rockets to colonize the moon, because the old west frontier days and unbridled individual freedom have long been over. You know it and I know it. So relax. Have some fun with it. Learn to love drab colors and radical speeches.

OK, so that is my view on the role of government. Please kindly add yours. Feel free to disagree, but keep it above the cyber waistline and refrain from personal attacks. And if there happens to be some part of you that feels the irresistable urge to mock any part of this post, please know that this is just another one of those past scripts running in your brain (i.e. no basis in reality).

Thank you for your cooperation. -VCD

http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture97/boatmotor/product1.jpg

[JBond]

http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/troll.jpg

[DIAF]

go away

[burmafrd]

like that annoying fly that you just can't swat VC hangs around

[irvin4evs]

Since I'm not an enemy of the free market and believe in freedom, I believe the military should be abolished.

In all seriousness, I think government should take whatever role results in me having the most money possible.

[DFWJC]

Since I'm not an enemy of the free market and believe in freedom, I believe the military should be abolished.

In all seriousness, I think government should take whatever role results in me having the most money possible.

Taking the military away may do just the opposite.:eek:

[MetalHead]

His posts are now pure comedy.
If I'm feeling down,vcd will get me out of my blues.
He's that funny.

[iceberg]

9KCct4RwLNM

[Dallas]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/myfask/258Troll_spray.jpg

[vta]

http://www.asseenontvguys.com/ProductImages/TATER_MITTS_AS_SEEN_ON_TV.jpg

If only the government invented and sold this great product.
We would solve all of our financial woes.

:lmao2: :lmao2:

You need to sleep more at night.

[zrinkill]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/zrinkill/ackbar_its_a_trap.jpg


Please Ignore the Troll

[vta]

Please Ignore the Troll

How about the responses?
They're priceless. :lmao2:

[burmafrd]

National government: first and always first the National Defense. This SHOULD be done in a non partisian and non political manner. Congress should have its grubby hands kept out of the details. A national board of former officials and generals and admirals carefully selected and forbidden to ever work for any contractor or lobbyist would make recomendations. In this case it would be very difficult for the politicians and lobbyists to cause the trouble they do now.

The Federal Reserve: pretty much as it is now just do a better job of putting the right people in.

Interstate Commerce: definitly needs tweaking but the basic premise should hold that no one state can unduly differ from an established norm.

Welfare: WORKFARE ONLY. And frankly this should be left to the states to do=help with funding but NOT directed by national means.

Social Security: scale it back to what it was supposed to be = a supplement for widows and orphans and the like. Now it pays for college education and health care and god knows what else.

EPA: common sense should rule = no idealogues from either side allowed.

Education Department needs to be abolished. This is a state and local area.

Labor department also abolished. Ditto with above.

Transportation: I really do not have a lot of grief with their current structure: however I would make the NTSB the real muscle not the FAA. That would fix a lot of current problems.

State Department: weed out the idiots who somehow think the US should not come first in any consideration with any foreign government. That does not happen much as it is now.

Treasury Department: The structure is ok its just like the SEC that the people we have in it now are losers.

Health Department: Its not our business to tell people they cannot eat this or that because it is fattening or whatever. If the people are too stupid then they pay the price. Priorities and procedures need a wholesale over haul as regards the way we fund and pay for medical procedures. The point should be that people are taken care of in the most economical way possible.

Homeland Security: Frankly I think this was a mistake to pull in too many organizations like FEMA that really should NOT be part of it. Security and response to terrorists and terrorist incidents should be kept separate from Hurricanes and the like/ If there is some duplication of effort then in this case that is not a bad thing.

Customs and Immigrations: build the wall and put barbed wire on top and patrol it with enough agents or NG to make the border secure. If the rest of the world does not like that then they can stick it where the sun doesnt shine. Illegal Aliens will be hunted down and the ones hiring them fully prosecuted. Give them one chance to register and do it the right way and then after that they are treated like the criminals they are.

FBI and DEA and the rest of Federal Law enforcement need to prioritize what really hurts us and go after it.

[masomenos]

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/bayrachny/goblin.jpg

Edit: Oops, sorry, I guess that's a Goblin.

[ShiningStar]

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/bayrachny/goblin.jpg

Edit: Oops, sorry, I guess that's a Goblin.


its just a troll that didnt make it over the evolutionary hump. Think nothing of it, good work.

[VCDefectors]

Shame on those of you trying to turn this into a troll thread. Let's just try to have a civil discussion, ok?

Now, to those who responded in a professional manner, I appreciate it. And kudos to the poster who said he wants the government that gives him the most money. At least that's being honest.

I realize there are some of you who just won't get over things that have been said about the military or whatever, but that can be handled through PMs. In fact, to show a willingness to let bygones be bygones, I am suspending the personal ban list. I think the people who were placed on it have had enough time to think about their actions, immaturity and how they only ended up hurting themselves. But I'm willingness to put all of that in the past. I hope those people can too.

[burmafrd]

Your fault VC and until you really and truly own up to it its nothing but posturing. You said things about our military that frankly to me is just about unforgiveable and if you dont own up to that and admit you have a real problem there then there is nothing to discuss in any way.

[sbark]

The root of the problem........is that the Left truely beleives the Govt does things better than the free market.........with the problem being the Govt has to take it from someone before giving it to the party in bed with them.....

in 1975, the great economist, Dr. Friedrich Von Hayek was interviewed by George Will. Dr. Von Hayek, a brilliant free market economist, was asked, "Dr. Von Hayek, why is it that so many intellectuals and particularly economists look at capitalism, they won't see the overwhelming prosperity and success that it has generated." He said he troubled over this for a long time trying to understand it, and the best that he could come up with was that, to intellectuals, it's all about control. The "fun" (for intellectual Liberals) is controlling things.........

[iceberg]

Shame on those of you trying to turn this into a troll thread. Let's just try to have a civil discussion, ok?

Now, to those who responded in a professional manner, I appreciate it. And kudos to the poster who said he wants the government that gives him the most money. At least that's being honest.

I realize there are some of you who just won't get over things that have been said about the military or whatever, but that can be handled through PMs. In fact, to show a willingness to let bygones be bygones, I am suspending the personal ban list. I think the people who were placed on it have had enough time to think about their actions, immaturity and how they only ended up hurting themselves. But I'm willingness to put all of that in the past. I hope those people can too.

please, keep me on ignore.

[zrinkill]

please, keep me on ignore.

Me too.

I tried accepting the trolls fake apology toward the military ..... and within a week he was mocking them and his own apology again.

He will never be off my personal troll list after he said the ones who his username represents are the true heroes as opposed to our Military men.

And now after starting thread after thread taking shots, he wants to "put it all aside"

Its laughable.

[iceberg]

Me too.

I tried accepting the trolls fake apology toward the military ..... and within a week he was mocking them and his own apology again.

He will never be off my personal troll list after he said the ones who his username represents are the true heroes as opposed to our Military men.

And now after starting thread after thread taking shots, he wants to "put it all aside"

Its laughable.

he's a neomaxizoondweetie.

[MetalHead]

Shame on those of you trying to turn this into a troll thread. Let's just try to have a civil discussion, ok?

Now, to those who responded in a professional manner, I appreciate it. And kudos to the poster who said he wants the government that gives him the most money. At least that's being honest.

I realize there are some of you who just won't get over things that have been said about the military or whatever, but that can be handled through PMs. In fact, to show a willingness to let bygones be bygones, I am suspending the personal ban list. I think the people who were placed on it have had enough time to think about their actions, immaturity and how they only ended up hurting themselves. But I'm willingness to put all of that in the past. I hope those people can too.

:lmao2:
Sometimes I come here and try to post something funny.I have had my moments,but in no way I'll ever be able to top this troll manifesto.
This is the Alpha and the Omega,the Mount Rushmore of trolling.
Hell,it's not called trolling anymore,it's Defecting from reason.

[BrAinPaiNt]

he's a neomaxizoondweetie.

You tell them john bender.:D

[mmillman]

Start here:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The sticking point seems to be general welfare. I fall on the side that the government should provide for the basics of general welfare. Food (safety) not supply it, medicines, power, water, roads, police, fire - essential services and I include health care in that group.

I don't know how but there are some that still argue for de-regulation of business etc..... but IMO the government is essential to regulating the essential services and that includes the financial industry. Call it socialism, or whatever you want but obviously unrestrained capitalism will not function.

[zrinkill]

The sticking point seems to be general welfare. I fall on the side that the government should provide for the basics of general welfare. Food (safety) not supply it, medicines, power, water, roads, police, fire - essential services and I include health care in that group.

I agree that if the government is gonna take so much in taxes from us that they are obliged to "take care" of those citizens who need to be taken care of.

Of course I think the tax laws right now are borderline theft ..... but thats another topic.

I don't know how but there are some that still argue for de-regulation of business etc..... but IMO the government is essential to regulating the essential services and that includes the financial industry. Call it socialism, or whatever you want but obviously unrestrained capitalism will not function.

I do not agree with that last statement as long as no laws are being broken.

If the Government would just uphold the laws that are already on the books and then "deregulate" businesses then we would be much better off.

IMNHO

[irvin4evs]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/zrinkill/ackbar_its_a_trap.jpg


Please Ignore the Troll


Just curious, do you know what a trap is?

[DIAF]

Just curious, do you know what a trap is?

I know where you are going with this, and If you continue to go there, you will out yourself as a gigantic NERD so you should probably just stop there.

Also, to VC, the only way "we" will get better is if you stop posting. Completely. And go away.

Please feel free to do that.

[trickblue]

Just curious, do you know what a trap is?

Just curious... do you know what he's referencing with that image?

[Hoofbite]

9KCct4RwLNM

I have that DVD. That movie has a cult following from what I hear. I bought it because it was so bad that I had to show others.

That movie is horribly great.

[Bob Sacamano]

I have that DVD. That movie has a cult following from what I hear. I bought it because it was so bad that I had to show others.

That movie is horribly great.

there's alot of storylines in that movie

[zrinkill]

Just curious... do you know what he's referencing with that image?

:laugh1:

I think he may be the only one on earth to not get it.

[Vintage]

LARGE gov't spending, LARGE increases in power of the office, GOV'T Interference in everything....


Oops. Sorry. Been busy following the Republicans/Democrats too much lately.

[DIAF]

Just curious... do you know what he's referencing with that image?

I'm pretty sure he does.

[VCDefectors]

Your fault VC and until you really and truly own up to it its nothing but posturing. You said things about our military that frankly to me is just about unforgiveable and if you dont own up to that and admit you have a real problem there then there is nothing to discuss in any way.

So you at least admit trolling my threads...that's nice. And if something I said a long time ago about the military is still bothering you, do as they do in the military...suck it up.

[theogt]

VCD = lewpac with a brain

[VCDefectors]

Me too.

I tried accepting the trolls fake apology toward the military ..... and within a week he was mocking them and his own apology again.

He will never be off my personal troll list after he said the ones who his username represents are the true heroes as opposed to our Military men.

And now after starting thread after thread taking shots, he wants to "put it all aside"

Its laughable.

Once again, if you don't like what I have to say in the threads that I start, then don't open them. Stop crying like a little baby.

And yes, in my warped way of thinking, it takes a lot of guts to stand up for one's beliefs, even if it means possible imprisonment or death. I don't necessarily agree or disagree and its not the point. I acknowledge the courage it takes to seek truth and follow wherever it takes you...vs...oh I don't know...following your nose to the world's largest bureacratic boyz club just because mommy, daddy, a preacher, a teacher, and a few slick government-sponsored ads told you it was a good idea.

[masomenos]

VCD = lewpac with a brain

Does that make it better, or worse?

[zrinkill]

Once again, if you don't like what I have to say in the threads that I start, then don't open them.

If you do not like what people say in your threads ...... then stop making stupid threads.

Stop crying like a little baby.

Who was the one crying about everyone picking on them kid?

[vta]

I'm pretty sure he does.

You people are killing me... what does it mean?

[ScipioCowboy]

You people are killing me... what does it mean?

nY0ClsW1QX4&feature=related

The reference in question is at roughly the 1:05 mark.

[vta]

nY0ClsW1QX4&feature=related

The reference in question is at roughly the 1:05 mark.

Ah, haha. Nice. Thanks for keeping me from wandering in ignorance.

[jrumann59]

Is VCD the same guy that states the military is not an honorable profession when compared to police, doctors, and firefighters.

[vta]

Is VCD the same guy that states the military is not an honorable profession when compared to police, doctors, and firefighters.

Yeah.

[jrumann59]

Yeah.

Thats all I needed to know to know the worth of this thread.

[zrinkill]

Is VCD the same guy that states the military is not an honorable profession when compared to police, doctors, and firefighters.

He actually said it was the same as working at McDonald's.

[VCDefectors]

Is VCD the same guy that states the military is not an honorable profession when compared to police, doctors, and firefighters.

I never said that. I've always contended that the military is as honorable as any other profession. But again, you digress.

[VCDefectors]

He actually said it was the same as working at McDonald's.

And what is exactly wrong with working at a McDonald's? Man, what's with this anti-burgerflipper attitude around here?

[burmafrd]

BS VC you are full of it. You deliberately insulted all those that served and we all know it. Stop lying.

[DaBoys4Life]

And what is exactly wrong with working at a McDonald's? Man, what's with this anti-burgerflipper attitude around here?

There's nothing wrong with working at Mcdonalds however to compare serving in the army to working at Mcdonalds is wrong. I'm pretty sure if you said that to someone who served IRL you'd be scrapping your teeth from ground but that's neither here nor there. I honestly don't understand why you aren't banned.

[neosapien23]

And what is exactly wrong with working at a McDonald's? Man, what's with this anti-burgerflipper attitude around here?


There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your family. However, it came off as insulting. You may not have not meant to come off like that, and hey **** happens. I am a combat vet, and was slighly insulted. However this best thing you could have done was man up, say my bad, and that would have been the end of it.

[Doomsday101]

I think the role of the federal government should be very small. I think their duty is to provide for the defense of this nation both foreign and domestic. I think more powers should go to state and city government. I firmly believe they should stay out of the business world since they have proven time again that they can't run a business I can't think of 1 single fed program that has not been mismanage, broke and or losing money

[zrinkill]

it came off as insulting. You may not have not meant to come off like that.


Yes he did ..... he even fake apologized when he angered some of the Veteran mods ..... of course he mocked that apology and acted like it was forced a few days later.

The guy is a one trick pony.

He is one of the few people on here who I really dislike and I too am surprised he has not been perma banned yet.

[Rogah]

I never said that. I've always contended that the military is as honorable as any other profession. But again, you digress.What you've said is (direct quote, your words): "I will make a point that I equally respect the soldier, the burger-flipper, the mechanic, the teacher, the sewage guy down the street."
And what is exactly wrong with working at a McDonald's? Man, what's with this anti-burgerflipper attitude around here?I don't think there is any shame in flipping burgers. But the guy who flips burgers isn't putting his life on the line and making tremendous sacrifices in order to protect and defend the freedoms people like you take for granted.

That's why the vast majority of Americans value and respect the members of the military. We understand their sacrifices and risks, and how much we all gain because of their dedication and commitment. That's why there are so many places with names like "Veteran Stadium" and "Soldier Field" but you won't find any "Burger Flipper Memorial Park."

[zrinkill]

What you've said is (direct quote, your words): "I will make a point that I equally respect the soldier, the burger-flipper, the mechanic, the teacher, the sewage guy down the street."
I don't think there is any shame in flipping burgers. But the guy who flips burgers isn't putting his life on the line and making tremendous sacrifices in order to protect and defend the freedoms people like you take for granted.

That's why the vast majority of Americans value and respect the members of the military. We understand their sacrifices and risks, and how much we all gain because of their dedication and commitment. That's why there are so many places with names like "Veteran Stadium" and "Soldier Field" but you won't find any "Burger Flipper Memorial Park."

This is a great post.

[iceberg]

What you've said is (direct quote, your words): "I will make a point that I equally respect the soldier, the burger-flipper, the mechanic, the teacher, the sewage guy down the street."
I don't think there is any shame in flipping burgers. But the guy who flips burgers isn't putting his life on the line and making tremendous sacrifices in order to protect and defend the freedoms people like you take for granted.

That's why the vast majority of Americans value and respect the members of the military. We understand their sacrifices and risks, and how much we all gain because of their dedication and commitment. That's why there are so many places with names like "Veteran Stadium" and "Soldier Field" but you won't find any "Burger Flipper Memorial Park."

shakespere to a dog man.

what i don't get is *nothing anyone says* will change vc's game. he's here to say the most stupid things imaginable and his return is only here to try and outstupid his last statement.

why?

so people will react. he's a reaction-junkie. pure and simple. since people have grown used to it and his game isn't pulling like he used to, he's stepped it up and gone into full obama worship mode. not because he really does, but because he knows the fish will bite the bait of total temptation.

if you want an idiot to go away, quit talking to them.

[Rogah]

if you want an idiot to go away, quit talking to them.I agree, and I have pretty much stopped responding to his posts. I mean, what can you really say to someone who writes "A little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody"...?

But I just want to make sure his words get accurately quoted so anyone who is new in here (or someone who just wasn't around at the time) understands exactly the type of person he is and the viewpoints he has. :D

[MetalHead]

shakespere to a dog man.

what i don't get is *nothing anyone says* will change vc's game. he's here to say the most stupid things imaginable and his return is only here to try and outstupid his last statement.

why?

so people will react. he's a reaction-junkie. pure and simple. since people have grown used to it and his game isn't pulling like he used to, he's stepped it up and gone into full obama worship mode. not because he really does, but because he knows the fish will bite the bait of total temptation.

if you want an idiot to go away, quit talking to them.

:laugh2:
For some reason that word today got a giggle out of me.

[VCDefectors]

BS VC you are full of it. You deliberately insulted all those that served and we all know it. Stop lying.

Insulted? As if you truly care about the opinions of some anonymous dude on the Internet. Now, who's full of it? Uh, that would be you.

[VCDefectors]

There's nothing wrong with working at Mcdonalds however to compare serving in the army to working at Mcdonalds is wrong. I'm pretty sure if you said that to someone who served IRL you'd be scrapping your teeth from ground but that's neither here nor there. I honestly don't understand why you aren't banned.

Oh great, another tough-guy rant. Is it any wonder why certain stereotypes get promoted?

[VCDefectors]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your family. However, it came off as insulting. You may not have not meant to come off like that, and hey **** happens. I am a combat vet, and was slighly insulted. However this best thing you could have done was man up, say my bad, and that would have been the end of it.

Actually, that is a pretty fair position on your part. But once again, it doesn't really have anything to do with the original topic. Please PM me if you would like to discuss military stuff further.

[iceberg]

Oh great, another tough-guy rant. Is it any wonder why certain stereotypes get promoted?

and why should you care about someone anonymous guy on the internet?

gosh you're full of it.

[VCDefectors]

I think the role of the federal government should be very small. I think their duty is to provide for the defense of this nation both foreign and domestic. I think more powers should go to state and city government. I firmly believe they should stay out of the business world since they have proven time again that they can't run a business I can't think of 1 single fed program that has not been mismanage, broke and or losing money

I agree with the Jeffersonian perspective on empowering the states. I think its naive, though, to suggest that government should stay out of business. Its one of those great American myths that get promoted by Dittoheads to give ignorant people a fixed target to vent their puny frustrations. The American government and big business have always been lovers.

[zrinkill]

Oh great, another tough-guy rant. Is it any wonder why certain stereotypes get promoted?

And what stereotype are you?

I could tell you, but I do not want to get an infraction tonight.

[VCDefectors]

Yes he did ..... he even fake apologized when he angered some of the Veteran mods ..... of course he mocked that apology and acted like it was forced a few days later.

The guy is a one trick pony.

He is one of the few people on here who I really dislike and I too am surprised he has not been perma banned yet.

Again, nothing to do with the original topic. I politely asked everyone to refrain from personal attacks, and here you are...

[VCDefectors]

And what stereotype are you?

I could tell you, but I do not want to get an infraction tonight.

You could also just PM all of your frustrations, disagreements, rants, or whatever you wish to me. Instead, here you are...

[zrinkill]

Instead, here you are...

Which is why you start these foolish threads.

[VCDefectors]

What you've said is (direct quote, your words): "I will make a point that I equally respect the soldier, the burger-flipper, the mechanic, the teacher, the sewage guy down the street."

Thank you.

I don't think there is any shame in flipping burgers. But the guy who flips burgers isn't putting his life on the line and making tremendous sacrifices in order to protect and defend the freedoms people like you take for granted.[/b]


Actually, before one can pick up a weapon and defend a post, or a country, one has to have the physical strength to do it. Yes, you can't defend something on an empty stomach for very long. Hence, why the role of a burger-flipper or a farmer is equally vital to this great nation of ours.

That's why the vast majority of Americans value and respect the members of the military. We understand their sacrifices and risks, and how much we all gain because of their dedication and commitment. That's why there are so many places with names like "Veteran Stadium" and "Soldier Field" but you won't find any "Burger Flipper Memorial Park."

Give it a little time. If Jerry Jones can't get a naming rights deal going soon, the new Cowboys stadium arches will become Golden...complete with a big statue of Ronald the Child Molester.

[VCDefectors]

Which is why you start these foolish threads.

For which you find irresistable. Please try to control youself and state something in reference to the original topic.

Thank you in advance.

[VCDefectors]

shakespere to a dog man.

what i don't get is *nothing anyone says* will change vc's game. he's here to say the most stupid things imaginable and his return is only here to try and outstupid his last statement.

why?

so people will react. he's a reaction-junkie. pure and simple. since people have grown used to it and his game isn't pulling like he used to, he's stepped it up and gone into full obama worship mode. not because he really does, but because he knows the fish will bite the bait of total temptation.

if you want an idiot to go away, quit talking to them.

I see you still haven't learned how to control your behavior since the last time I placed you on the personal ban list. That's too bad.

[VCDefectors]

and why should you care about someone anonymous guy on the internet?

gosh you're full of it.

Again, either you have something relevant to add to the original topic of this thread, or you don't. Please try harder.

[Rogah]

Actually, before one can pick up a weapon and defend a post, or a country, one has to have the physical strength to do it. Yes, you can't defend something on an empty stomach for very long. Hence, why the role of a burger-flipper or a farmer is equally vital to this great nation of ours. It statements like these that make me believe - and I mean I honestly believe - that you are really an ultra-Conservative that just makes the posts you do so as to make Liberals look bad. I mean, seriously... no one could possibly be that ridiculous and disrespectful. That's why I have, for the most part, stopped responding to your posts. I know you don't really believe the nonsense you write, so I read your posts for entertainment value but I don't take them seriously at all.

You're like a Stephen Colbert, only where he is a Liberal doing a parody of a Conservative to make them look foolish, you are a Conservative doing a parody of a Liberal.

[VCDefectors]

It statements like these that make me believe - and I mean I honestly believe - that you are really an ultra-Conservative that just makes the posts you do so as to make Liberals look bad. I mean, seriously... no one could possibly be that ridiculous and disrespectful. That's why I have, for the most part, stopped responding to your posts. I know you don't really believe the nonsense you write, so I read your posts for entertainment value but I don't take them seriously at all.

You're like a Stephen Colbert, only where he is a Liberal doing a parody of a Conservative to make them look foolish, you are a Conservative doing a parody of a Liberal.

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you disagree with here. For the record, and I believe that I have been more or less consistent about it, that I find the roles that we've all discussed (the soldier, the burger-flipper, the farmer, etc.., etc..) to be all equivalent in terms of importance to society. There is no "best" or "most important" occupation, IMO.

But once again, please demonstrate how this is relevant to the original topic.

[zrinkill]

You're like a Stephen Colbert, only where he is a Liberal doing a parody of a Conservative to make them look foolish, you are a Conservative doing a parody of a Liberal.

I think you are confusing talent with stupidity.

[Rogah]

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you disagree with here.I already have, many times. And since I know you don't honestly, seriously believe the things you are saying (after all, no one could possibly be that disrespectful and ridiculous), I have no problem letting my statements stand as they are.
But once again, please demonstrate how this is relevant to the original topic.This thread has long since strayed from the original topic and since you have gladly participated in these tangential discussions, you not going to have much success currying sympathy for all the off topic ramblings.

[Rogah]

I think you are confusing talent with stupidity.I'm tellin' ya, I think I am on to something here. He is everything that Conservatives accuse Liberals of being. He openly scorns the military (but praises those who dodged the draft), he openly supports Communist and Socialist policy ("a little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody") and he has gone quite a bit "over the top" with regard to his support of Obama.

IMHO, it is more likely he is a Conservative trying to make Liberals look bad than a Liberal honestly professing what he feels.

[VCDefectors]

I already have, many times. And since I know you don't honestly, seriously believe the things you are saying (after all, no one could possibly be that disrespectful and ridiculous), I have no problem letting my statements stand as they are.

This is where you clearly cross the line from refuting an opinion to resorting in personal attacks.

This thread has long since strayed from the original topic and since you have gladly participated in these tangential discussions, you not going to have much success currying sympathy for all the off topic ramblings.

I only participated to the degree that I felt an attempt to get this thing back on topic could help. But it seems more clear to me that you and a few others are intentionally dragging this thread through the mud in an attempt to stir up trouble. I have already been told by a couple of moderators that you guys have been warned about this.

[VCDefectors]

I'm tellin' ya, I think I am on to something here. He is everything that Conservatives accuse Liberals of being. He openly scorns the military (but praises those who dodged the draft), he openly supports Communist and Socialist policy ("a little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody") and he has gone quite a bit "over the top" with regard to his support of Obama.

IMHO, it is more likely he is a Conservative trying to make Liberals look bad than a Liberal honestly professing what he feels.

I'm tellin' ya, I think I'm on to something here. Rogah is really off-topic today!!!

[ThaBigP]

Once again, if you don't like what I have to say in the threads that I start, then don't open them. Stop crying like a little baby.

And yes, in my warped way of thinking, it takes a lot of guts to stand up for one's beliefs, even if it means possible imprisonment or death. I don't necessarily agree or disagree and its not the point. I acknowledge the courage it takes to seek truth and follow wherever it takes you...vs...oh I don't know...following your nose to the world's largest bureacratic boyz club just because mommy, daddy, a preacher, a teacher, and a few slick government-sponsored ads told you it was a good idea.

This is why you FAIL.

Read your original post:

I know there are quite a few of you who only want the government to provide a military and the "market" take care of the rest. And I'm sure everyone has some list, however small, of other bureaucratic needs you feel the government is better equipped to handle.

Me personally, I was actually relieved to know that after Wall Street took a big dump on the American public, that we have a government in place that is big and powerful enough to smooth out of the occasional rough sailing in Capitalist Land Inc. I absolutely love the Federal Reserve!! So what if they are not perfect. My only wish is that Bernake could wear a crown and have one of those mobile thrones that could be hoisted upon the backs of a few Wall Street boys.

I know some of you fear the future of America as eroding into a socialist pile of poop. And if the followers of such an assessment turn out to be correct, I say fear not. A little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody. Besides, what we may be witnessing may be inevitable anyway. The great Karl "Groucho" Marx had stated many times in many different ways that socialism is the inevitable consequence in a capitalist society. After all, it takes greater and greater doses of socialism to make capitalism work. Eventually communism will rear its ugly head back into the global mainstream.

That is the very thing that I am referring to when I give some of you a hard time about not living in reality. You rugged individualists out there might as well be making plans to build rockets to colonize the moon, because the old west frontier days and unbridled individual freedom have long been over. You know it and I know it. So relax. Have some fun with it. Learn to love drab colors and radical speeches.

OK, so that is my view on the role of government. Please kindly add yours. Feel free to disagree, but keep it above the cyber waistline and refrain from personal attacks. And if there happens to be some part of you that feels the irresistable urge to mock any part of this post, please know that this is just another one of those past scripts running in your brain (i.e. no basis in reality).

Perhaps it is you who should...I dunno...abandon your personal beliefs and sate yourself with drab colors, bossa nova music, and our "radical speeches". After all, it's the prescription you promote as the cure for our ills.

Oh, but I digress. That has a "basis in reality", which you lack. You're just trolling. And therefore, making stuff up as you go, even if it contradicts what you yourself posted earlier, is just dandy.

http://www.haverodwilltravel.com/images/Trolling%202.jpg

[VCDefectors]

This is why you FAIL.

Read your original post:

Perhaps it is you who should...I dunno...abandon your personal beliefs and sate yourself with drab colors, bossa nova music, and our "radical speeches". After all, it's the prescription you promote as the cure for our ills.

Oh, but I digress. That has a "basis in reality", which you lack. You're just trolling. And therefore, making stuff up as you go, even if it contradicts what you yourself posted earlier, is just dandy.



I would be more than happy to examine any contradictions pointed out to me. But that doesn't make me a troll. And once again, no relevancy to the original topic.

[zrinkill]

http://fast1.onesite.com/fans.wwe.com/user/fronk180/yoda_fail.jpg

[Rogah]

This is where you clearly cross the line from refuting an opinion to resorting in personal attacks. If you consider anything I've said to be a personal attack, then you really need to develop thicker skin, my friend. What exactly is the part that offends you the most?
I only participated to the degree that I felt an attempt to get this thing back on topic could help. But it seems more clear to me that you and a few others are intentionally dragging this thread through the mud in an attempt to stir up trouble. I have already been told by a couple of moderators that you guys have been warned about this.Then you've been misinformed - at least as far as me personally receiving any sort of warning (I can't speak as to whether or not anyone else has). My comments are very tame. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable if I compared you to sewage workers?
I'm tellin' ya, I think I'm on to something here. Rogah is really off-topic today!!!Guilty as charged, but this is hardly the first thread where I have done that. I routinely get involved in discussions that are off topic within a thread. I think that's something we all do.

[VCDefectors]

Guilty as charged, but this is hardly the first thread where I have done that. I routinely get involved in discussions that are off topic within a thread. I think that's something we all do.

True, we all veer off-topic from time to time, but it is obvious that some here are blantantly doing so to bring down a thread, something that the moderators have given warnings about.

[ScipioCowboy]

True, we all veer off-topic from time to time, but it is obvious that some here are blantantly doing so to bring down a thread, something that the moderators have given warnings about.

Well, despite the blatancy of their actions and subsequent consequences, they don't seem to be stopping or even slowing their endeavors to "bring down" your threads.

Perhaps the moderators aren't being as tenacious or vigilant in their warnings as they've led you to believe. Or, perhaps they're giving you the ol' bureaucratic run around.

Or, perhaps you're just full of it.:D

[masomenos]

http://www.amateurillustrator.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/ogre.jpg

edit: Damnit, I guess that's an Ogre. I just can't seem to get this right.

[VCDefectors]

Well, despite the blatancy of their actions and subsequent consequences, they don't seem to be stopping or even slowing their endeavors to "bring down" your threads.

Perhaps the moderators aren't being as tenacious or vigilant in their warnings as they've led you to believe. Or, perhaps they're giving you the ol' bureaucratic run around.

Or, perhaps you're just full of it.:D

I'm only repeating what I have been told. While I don't wish anyone ill harm here, I do believe that those certain people have been warned about their behavior.

[Viper]

F_RZTusUzM8

[BrAinPaiNt]

lumqCF2YU1g

[zrinkill]

I'm only repeating what I have been told. While I don't wish anyone ill harm here, I do believe that those certain people have been warned about their behavior.

Nope.

I have "been assured" that the mods know your game better than anyone.

[DIAF]

hey, lets post some pictures of cats! BP, you start!

[BrAinPaiNt]

hey, lets post some pictures of cats! BP, you start!

I posted a great our gang clip and nobody comments on it....so to heck with all of you. ;) :p:

[trickblue]

hey, lets post some pictures of cats! BP, you start!

http://tcor.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/worlds-ugliest-cat.jpg

I can haz cheeseburger?

[Doomsday101]

I agree with the Jeffersonian perspective on empowering the states. I think its naive, though, to suggest that government should stay out of business. Its one of those great American myths that get promoted by Dittoheads to give ignorant people a fixed target to vent their puny frustrations. The American government and big business have always been lovers.

Oh please with your myth BS Government can't run any programs without major cost over runs if not the for the fact they can raise taxes at will to pay for these programs these programs could not survive. Government is at it's best when it gets out of the way of people and business. If a Business can't make it on it's own then it deserves to fail.

[Rackat]

http://tcor.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/worlds-ugliest-cat.jpg

I can haz cheeseburger?
Oh, man. Is that a Crat? Kinda like a Liger only it's a cat/rat mix. :laugh2:

[iceberg]

I'm only repeating what I have been told. While I don't wish anyone ill harm here, I do believe that those certain people have been warned about their behavior.

not me to you.

go find another skirt to hide behind boy.

[MetalHead]

Perhaps you can explain what it is that you disagree with here. For the record, and I believe that I have been more or less consistent about it, that I find the roles that we've all discussed (the soldier, the burger-flipper, the farmer, etc.., etc..) to be all equivalent in terms of importance to society. There is no "best" or "most important" occupation, IMO.

But once again, please demonstrate how this is relevant to the original topic.

When they start naming streets,building statues after burger flippers,then we can talk.
When the start giving away Medals of Honor for fry duties,then we can talk.
When you understand that there is a reason Veterans get their own holiday,apart from Labor Day,then we can talk.
When you can read this,thank a teacher.
And as you read it in english,thank a soldier.

[vta]

http://tcor.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/worlds-ugliest-cat.jpg

I can haz cheeseburger?

That's just wrong... someone is going to hell for that. :laugh2:

[VCDefectors]

When they start naming streets,building statues after burger flippers,then we can talk.
When the start giving away Medals of Honor for fry duties,then we can talk.
When you understand that there is a reason Veterans get their own holiday,apart from Labor Day,then we can talk.
When you can read this,thank a teacher.
And as you read it in english,thank a soldier.

Well, it looks like I'm not going to be able to get this thread back on track. So be it. Let's do this thing and get it over with.

THE BURGER-FLIPPER MANIFESTO
by VCD

The burger-flipper is really only a metaphor or a type of food producer.

Now stop and think about it.

Civilization is only possible because of a division of labor. In terms of food, this means that there is a small segment of people that produce enough surplus food to feed its society. This allows for the division of labor, including the development of the military occupation. Without a division of labor, you have no real need (cause) for a society, nor the need to protect it.

And so it goes...Now, you argue that our great nation is nothing without its military and soldiers willing to die for its existence. I say that we must thank the food producer first. No matter how small our chances of survival are without a military, chances of survival without food is absolute zero. No contest. The burger flipper is just a part of this food production process. I could have used the term butcher, or fishcatcher, or breadmaker. It doesn't really matter.

THE END

[DIAF]

THE END

Sooooo....does this mean you are leaving now?

[zrinkill]

Well, it looks like I'm not going to be able to get this thread back on track. So be it. Let's do this thing and get it over with.

THE BURGER-FLIPPER MANIFESTO
by VCD

The burger-flipper is really only a metaphor or a type of food producer.

Now stop and think about it.

Civilization is only possible because of a division of labor. In terms of food, this means that there is a small segment of people that produce enough surplus food to feed its society. This allows for the division of labor, including the development of the military occupation. Without a division of labor, you have no real need (cause) for a society, nor the need to protect it.

And so it goes...Now, you argue that our great nation is nothing without its military and soldiers willing to die for its existence. I say that we must thank the food producer first. No matter how small our chances of survival are without a military, chances of survival without food is absolute zero. No contest. The burger flipper is just a part of this food production process. I could have used the term butcher, or fishcatcher, or breadmaker. It doesn't really matter.

THE END


Took him long enough to come up with this nonsense.

To bad for him that everyone knows what he was really trying to say the first time he compared our soldiers to burger flippers.

Fail again kid.

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[VCDefectors]

Took him long enough to come up with this nonsense.

To bad for him that everyone knows what he was really trying to say the first time he compared our soldiers to burger flippers.

Fail again kid.

Yeah, its nonsense to argue that food is more essential to human survival than having a military. What was I thinking? :laugh2:

[DIAF]

I guess not.

[zrinkill]

Yeah, its nonsense to argue that food is more essential to human survival than having a military. What was I thinking?

The fact that you thought of this "reasoning" months after the fact is what is nonsense.

No one is falling for it.


But by all means keep laughing ..... we certainly will at you.

[burmafrd]

Yes it is since without a military to protect it someone can steal or destroy your food and you are dead. Its little things like that that make us laugh at you VC.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yeah, its nonsense to argue that food is more essential to human survival than having a military. What was I thinking? :laugh2:

Sometimes it is better to just admit your mistake of your original intention, apologize for it and move on. That or just drop it all together. Because until that point you will never be taken seriously and rightfully so.

You dug your own hole and until you can climb back out of it you are just wasting everyone's time and you only have yourself to blame for it since you seem to be too stubborn to move on or do the right thing about it.

Like it, don't like it, harsh to say but like Paul Harvey would say, that's the way it is.

[burmafrd]

Its kind of like watching a really dumb dog chase parked cars isn't it?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Its kind of like watching a really dumb dog chase parked cars isn't it?

Yes it is. Oh...you were talking about VC...well the answer is the same, yes it is.

[VCDefectors]

Sometimes it is better to just admit your mistake of your original intention, apologize for it and move on. That or just drop it all together. Because until that point you will never be taken seriously and rightfully so.

You dug your own hole and until you can climb back out of it you are just wasting everyone's time and you only have yourself to blame for it since you seem to be too stubborn to move on or do the right thing about it.

Like it, don't like it, harsh to say but like Paul Harvey would say, that's the way it is.

I'm not sure what original intention you are referring to. And it seemed to me that I was the one trying to do the right thing here (stick to the original topic), why a few others started in on their usual trolling.

And no, I don't agree about any hole that I need to dig myself out of. I have apologized for the things that needed to be apologized for and all of that is in the past for me. On the other hand, there are a few people here still whining about their feelings being hurt about things said a long time ago. They are the ones who need to dig themselves out of their own hole and move on.

And that, my good friend, is really the way it truly is.

If you think that I am trying to pull one over you, think again.

[MetalHead]

I'm not sure what original intention you are referring to. And it seemed to me that I was the one trying to do the right thing here (stick to the original topic), why a few others started in on their usual trolling.

And no, I don't agree about any hole that I need to dig myself out of. I have apologized for the things that needed to be apologized for and all of that is in the past for me. On the other hand, there are a few people here still whining about their feelings being hurt about things said a long time ago. They are the ones who need to dig themselves out of their own hole and move on.

And that, my good friend, is really the way it truly is.

If you think that I am trying to pull one over you, think again.

Stop the brown nosing...BP is not your friend.

[VCDefectors]

Stop the brown nosing...BP is not your friend.

Dude, this isn't high school...:lmao:

[iceberg]

Dude, this isn't high school...:lmao:

then why do you keep trolling here?

[VCDefectors]

then why do you keep trolling here?

I was about ready to ask you the same question.

[iceberg]

I was about ready to ask you the same question.

still stealing material i see.

[JBond]

Start here:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The sticking point seems to be general welfare. I fall on the side that the government should provide for the basics of general welfare. Food (safety) not supply it, medicines, power, water, roads, police, fire - essential services and I include health care in that group.

I don't know how but there are some that still argue for de-regulation of business etc..... but IMO the government is essential to regulating the essential services and that includes the financial industry. Call it socialism, or whatever you want but obviously unrestrained capitalism will not function.

There is a huge difference from promoting the general welfare to taking from anyone with a little success through hard work and giving it to proven failures. There is no such thing as unrestrained capitalism in the United States. Name one industry that has zero government restraints. You can't. I am sorry you need someone to take care of you. With a little hard work maybe someday you will be able to take care of yourself.

[Royal Laegotti]

I know there are quite a few of you who only want the government to provide a military and the "market" take care of the rest. And I'm sure everyone has some list, however small, of other bureaucratic needs you feel the government is better equipped to handle.

Me personally, I was actually relieved to know that after Wall Street took a big dump on the American public, that we have a government in place that is big and powerful enough to smooth out of the occasional rough sailing in Capitalist Land Inc. I absolutely love the Federal Reserve!! So what if they are not perfect. My only wish is that Bernake could wear a crown and have one of those mobile thrones that could be hoisted upon the backs of a few Wall Street boys.

I know some of you fear the future of America as eroding into a socialist pile of poop. And if the followers of such an assessment turn out to be correct, I say fear not. A little hammer and sickle never hurt anybody. Besides, what we may be witnessing may be inevitable anyway. The great Karl "Groucho" Marx had stated many times in many different ways that socialism is the inevitable consequence in a capitalist society. After all, it takes greater and greater doses of socialism to make capitalism work. Eventually communism will rear its ugly head back into the global mainstream.

That is the very thing that I am referring to when I give some of you a hard time about not living in reality. You rugged individualists out there might as well be making plans to build rockets to colonize the moon, because the old west frontier days and unbridled individual freedom have long been over. You know it and I know it. So relax. Have some fun with it. Learn to love drab colors and radical speeches.

OK, so that is my view on the role of government. Please kindly add yours. Feel free to disagree, but keep it above the cyber waistline and refrain from personal attacks. And if there happens to be some part of you that feels the irresistable urge to mock any part of this post, please know that this is just another one of those past scripts running in your brain (i.e. no basis in reality).

Thank you for your cooperation. -VCD

Can I just call you V.D., it seems to fit you better!

[WarC]

I had an instructor for a class titled "American History Since 1945". The first week of class she dedicated to this one question: "What is the purpose of government?".

The purpose of government is to protect the ruling class.

In a capitalist, free market society; The ruling class are the business owners and the wealthy.

[DFWJC]

I had an instructor for a class titled "American History Since 1945". The first week of class she dedicated to this one question: "What is the purpose of government?".

The purpose of government is to protect the ruling class.

In a capitalist, free market society; The ruling class are the business owners and the wealthy.
Nonsense....

[WarC]

Nonsense....

Give me an example in history of a government that did anything else.

Whether its a monarchy, an oligarchy, a republic, anything.

[trickblue]

I had an instructor for a class titled "American History Since 1945". The first week of class she dedicated to this one question: "What is the purpose of government?".

The purpose of government is to protect the ruling class.

In a capitalist, free market society; The ruling class are the business owners and the wealthy.

Oh brother... :rolleyes:

[WarC]

Oh brother... :rolleyes:

:D

It's totally open ended, I ask the same of you. Give me an example of any government in the history of mankind that did anything else...

Humans coordinate themselves into social ladders, social hierarchies; The purpose of government is to protect the social hierarchy so that it can continue to operate, its goal is the proliferation of that social hierarchy. Now the top of the social hierarchy may change...The ruling class may be a hereditary nobility, it may be a business class of elected officials, it may be based entirely on age and social position, as in the classical Greek oligarchial city states...But it is always the same.

[zrinkill]

:D

It's totally open ended, I ask the same of you. Give me an example of any government in the history of mankind that did anything else...

Humans coordinate themselves into social ladders, social hierarchies; The purpose of government is to protect the social hierarchy so that it can continue to operate, its goal is the proliferation of that social hierarchy. Now the top of the social hierarchy may change...The ruling class may be a hereditary nobility, it may be a business class of elected officials, it may be based entirely on age and social position, as in the classical Greek oligarchial city states...But it is always the same.


So basically you can justify your argument by changing what qualifies as the "ruling class"


http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/photo/david_koechner.jpg
You and VCdefector should go out on a date ..... have some chicken .... maybe some ***, see what happens.

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And yes I know you are joking ..... just wanted to use an "Anchorman" quote.


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[JBond]

I had an instructor for a class titled "American History Since 1945". The first week of class she dedicated to this one question: "What is the purpose of government?".

The purpose of government is to protect the ruling class.

In a capitalist, free market society; The ruling class are the business owners and the wealthy.

These pathetic leftist teachers are filling our kids heads with this type of garbage from day one. Have you read the Constitution? The Federalist papers?

[trickblue]

:D

It's totally open ended, I ask the same of you. Give me an example of any government in the history of mankind that did anything else...

Humans coordinate themselves into social ladders, social hierarchies; The purpose of government is to protect the social hierarchy so that it can continue to operate, its goal is the proliferation of that social hierarchy. Now the top of the social hierarchy may change...The ruling class may be a hereditary nobility, it may be a business class of elected officials, it may be based entirely on age and social position, as in the classical Greek oligarchial city states...But it is always the same.

I think in respect to the wealthy/industrial sector BENEFITING most, that is true.

Not because they are more important, but because the infrastructure must be protected for the benefit of ALL citizens...

Some, like your instructor, will construe that to be protecting the rich/business owners, when in fact it is protecting the welfare of everyone...

[WarC]

So basically you can justify your argument by changing what qualifies as the "ruling class"

Yes, basically. You'd have to argue that there are not in fact different government types inorder to argue that there are not in fact different ruling classes. Aren't there different government types? Is a republic not a different type of government than a hereditary monarchy?

[WarC]

Some, like your instructor, will construe that to be protecting the rich/business owners, when in fact it is protecting the welfare of everyone...

She was (and as far as I know) still is a voting Republican. Hung a bloodied civil war flag in her classroom, loved Lincoln...

Our system is good because our "ruling class" depends on a healthy consumer inorder to prosper. It feeds off the working/consuming class (the vast majority of us). This whole recession is a remarkable example of it...The housing bubble popped, which froze credit and hit the stock markets hard, all of which hurts the consuming/working class (the folks using credit and buying houses). The whole system suffers because of it. In that I'm in complete agreement with you.

That doesn't necessarily hold true for other government types, whose ruling classes don't rely as heavily upon a strong consuming/working class inorder to prosper, such as a hereditary monarchy. Tsarist Russia for instance, and their huge "serf" underclass, or even India's caste system are examples of that.

[WarC]

These pathetic leftist teachers are filling our kids heads with this type of garbage from day one. Have you read the Constitution? The Federalist papers?

How is it a leftist argument?


Yes and yes.


BTW She was and is a voting Republican.

Yes you can be Republican and think critically of government at the same time. Most of the Republicans on this board are heavily critical of this administration yet my calling the wealthy in this country the "ruling class" is outrageous.


Relax the trigger fingers comrades. :laugh2:

[trickblue]

She was (and as far as I know) still is a voting Republican. Hung a bloodied civil war flag in her classroom, loved Lincoln...

Our system is good because our "ruling class" depends on a healthy consumer inorder to prosper. It feeds off the working/consuming class (the vast majority of us). This whole recession is a remarkable example of it...The housing bubble popped, which froze credit and hit the stock markets hard, all of which hurts the consuming/working class (the folks using credit and buying houses). The whole system suffers because of it. In that I'm in complete agreement with you.

That doesn't necessarily hold true for other government types, whose ruling classes don't rely as heavily upon a strong consuming/working class inorder to prosper, such as a hereditary monarchy. Tsarist Russia for instance, and their huge "serf" underclass, or even India's caste system are examples of that.

If she presented it in that form then I can agree as that is what I was essentially saying. Your initial synopsis was a bit vague... ;)

In regards to the second point, that's right as well, but I was referring to the US in my response. It is certainly a different animal when a different flavor of government/society is in place...

[Vintage]

I had an instructor for a class titled "American History Since 1945". The first week of class she dedicated to this one question: "What is the purpose of government?".

The purpose of government is to protect the ruling class.

In a capitalist, free market society; The ruling class are the business owners and the wealthy.


Agreed.

Every gov't turns into that at some point.

Its why every government is a bad government. "Democracies" are merely the best of the worst.

[Rogah]

That doesn't necessarily hold true for other government types, whose ruling classes don't rely as heavily upon a strong consuming/working class inorder to prosper, such as a hereditary monarchy. Tsarist Russia for instance, and their huge "serf" underclass, or even India's caste system are examples of that.It seems to me that you are using circular logic. It's like you're saying the government protects rich people the most because rich people have more to lose than poor people. The statement may be true from a certain point of view, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the purpose of government is to exclusively look after the interests of just the wealthier citizens or the "ruling class".

In our country, the government protects the rights and the interests of everybody. We are all equal in the eyes of the law - which may seem like no big deal to us today but it was a pretty radical concept at the time. Now yes, I know that in reality wealthy people are much better able to work the system than a poor person, but that can only be done to a certain extent. If a rich guy gets caught murdering a poor guy, he's going to go to jail.

[JBond]

It seems to me that you are using circular logic. It's like you're saying the government protects rich people the most because rich people have more to lose than poor people. The statement may be true from a certain point of view, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the purpose of government is to exclusively look after the interests of just the wealthier citizens or the "ruling class".

In our country, the government protects the rights and the interests of everybody. We are all equal in the eyes of the law - which may seem like no big deal to us today but it was a pretty radical concept at the time. Now yes, I know that in reality wealthy people are much better able to work the system than a poor person, but that can only be done to a certain extent. If a rich guy gets caught murdering a poor guy, he's going to go to jail.

http://the511.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/madoff.jpg

[Rogah]

http://the511.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/madoff.jpgI hear that guy is selling some of his Mets tickets on eBay - good deals can be had..!! :D

[CowboyMcCoy]

These pathetic leftist teachers are filling our kids heads with this type of garbage from day one. Have you read the Constitution? The Federalist papers?

And the rest of you bury your head in the sand and hide from the truth.

[CowboyMcCoy]

Yes, basically. You'd have to argue that there are not in fact different government types inorder to argue that there are not in fact different ruling classes. Aren't there different government types? Is a republic not a different type of government than a hereditary monarchy?

You'll learn quickly, Zrin and reason can't be said within the same breath. You just can't....
:laugh2:

[DIAF]

Pathetic Leftist Teachers?

So teachers are the enemy now?

[CowboyMcCoy]

Oh brother... :rolleyes:

Wow. All I can say is WOW.

[trickblue]

Wow. All I can say is WOW.

Why is that... did you not read my explanation?

[CowboyMcCoy]

Why is that... did you not read my explanation?

Representative democracy is almost all about protecting the ruling class. Think about it. There is one reason for this--LOBBYISTS.

Until people rid themselves of this Supreme Government mentality vs. National Initiative Referenda mentality, it won't get any better either.

Lobbyists, and their influence on laws and legislation, tell all we need to know about this. There is money, for those in the ruling class, to legislate the truck loads of complex tax law. Because then, only the select few can navigate through it all while making any sense.

I'm not going to rant, but think about lobbyists here.

[Doomsday101]

Representative democracy is almost all about protecting the ruling class. Think about it. There is one reason for this--LOBBYISTS.

Until people rid themselves of this Supreme Government mentality vs. National Initiative Referenda mentality, it won't get any better either.

Lobbyists, and their influence on laws and legislation, tell all we need to know about this. There is money, for those in the ruling class, to legislate the truck loads of complex tax law. Because then, only the select few can navigate through it all while making any sense.

I'm not going to rant, but think about lobbyists here.

I don't have as much of an issue with lobbyist they are sent to Washington to make their concerns known to political leaders. I have more of an issue with a political leader who is for sale than the lobbyist who is offering money. I think it easy to paint all lobbyists as evil and up to no good but they also serve as knowledgeable people in the fields they represent which can be beneficial to a political leader with little or no background in that certain field.

[zrinkill]

You'll learn quickly, Zrin and reason can't be said within the same breath. You just can't....
:laugh2:


I see the idiotic ramblings of Benny have returned.

[Vintage]

I see the idiotic ramblings of Benny have returned.


Is that Ben_n_Austin?

I kinda missed slapping him around.

[VCDefectors]

I had an instructor for a class titled "American History Since 1945". The first week of class she dedicated to this one question: "What is the purpose of government?".

The purpose of government is to protect the ruling class.

In a capitalist, free market society; The ruling class are the business owners and the wealthy.

Careful comrade,

Some people here will simply not tolerate any criticism of the Walmart way of life.

[JBond]

Pathetic Leftist Teachers?

So teachers are the enemy now?

Just the pathetic ones like Obama's buddy Bill Ayers. At least he claims he is a unrepentant terrorist. The Chicago school district is really rocking out the test scores, aren't they?

[DIAF]

Just the pathetic ones like Obama's buddy Bill Ayers. At least he claims he is a unrepentant terrorist. The Chicago school district is really rocking out the test scores, aren't they?

You think Chicago is bad? Just look at Atlanta City Schools.

Anyways, Chicago, Atlanta, and any other large city public school system is gonna be crap, by and large because of money. Lots of minorities, lots of poor = no local tax dollars for education = poor schools.

Professors like Bill Ayers are the exception, and not the rule when it comes to teachers. I won't deny that the teaching profession tends to attract more liberal types because it appeals to certain sensibilities, but I'd hardly argue that they are out to brainwash foot soldiers for some evil liberal cause.

[JBond]

You think Chicago is bad? Just look at Atlanta City Schools.

Anyways, Chicago, Atlanta, and any other large city public school system is gonna be crap, by and large because of money. Lots of minorities, lots of poor = no local tax dollars for education = poor schools.

Professors like Bill Ayers are the exception, and not the rule when it comes to teachers. I won't deny that the teaching profession tends to attract more liberal types because it appeals to certain sensibilities, but I'd hardly argue that they are out to brainwash foot soldiers for some evil liberal cause.

The Kansas City schools lost their accreditation years ago and were taken over by the state and they have gotten progressively worse. Insane school boards are the big issue here. And yes teacher unions are the other major part of the problem. School vouchers are the solution, but I think we have had that conversation already.

[zrinkill]

Careful comrade,

Some people here will simply not tolerate any criticism of the Walmart way of life.

And the victim card is played early today.

[burmafrd]

He has nothing else to play.