Obama backs off Assault Rifle ban

[ConcordCowboy]

First 100 days: Assault weapons ban


Obama’s goal of permanently renewing the ban appears to be a longshot


By Pete Williams
Justice correspondent
NBC News


WASHINGTON - Campaigning before a church congregation on Chicago’s South Side one Sunday in July 2007, Barack Obama said an epidemic of big city violence was “sickening the soul of this nation.”

Among the potential cures, he said, was permanently reinstating a ban on assault weapons.

One-hundred days into his presidency, President Obama says it remains a goal. But it is one the White House has been forced to abandon.

Voices of agreement

President Obama and Vice-President Biden, “support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent,” the White House website declares. Shortly after taking office, members of the Obama cabinet added their voices of agreement.

At his first news conference as attorney general, Eric Holder said, “there are just a few gun-related changes what we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban.”

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton endorsed the idea during her trip to Mexico in late March. “These assault weapons, these military-style weapons, don’t belong on anyone’s street,” she said.

But the fire has gone out of President Obama’s goal of restricting the availability of firearms. “I don’t know of any plans,” said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs, to seek an assault weapons ban from Congress.

Attorney General Holder admitted as much when asked, during a recent session with reporters, whether he expected any push for a ban this year to curb the flow of guns from the United States to Mexico.

His answer could have come straight from the National Rifle Association: “I think what we’re going to do is to try to, obviously, enforce the laws on the books.”


Support evaporated

Congress imposed a ban on what it called assault weapons in 1994, outlawing the sale and importation of 19 military-style weapons, copycat models with similar features, and high-capacity ammunition magazines. In a compromise with Republicans, the Democrats who controlled Congress agreed to let it expire in ten years unless it was renewed. By 2004, with Republicans in charge, support had evaporated.

Democrats again control Congress, and a Democrat is once more in the White House, the same conditions that allowed the ban to be imposed 15 years ago. But the make-up of Congress is different, with little appetite for restricting gun ownership.

The Senate’s majority leader is a westerner, Harry Reid of Nevada also known as Senator Balless, where gun control is political poison. And though the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi also know as House Speaker Worthless, comes from the more liberal San Francisco, she has shown no enthusiasm for reviving the assault weapons ban because of opposition among her colleagues.


Sixty-five House Democrats wrote Attorney General Holder in mid-March, saying they “would actively oppose any effort to reinstate the 1994 ban” and predicting “a long and divisive fight” if the administration tried to push for one. Many of them represent rural districts, where gun control is no more popular than in Nevada.


By the time President Obama made his trip to Mexico, he conceded the battle would be futile. “None of us are any illusion that reinstating that ban would be easy.”

“What we’re focused on is how we can improve our enforcement of existing laws,” he said.

Straw buyers
Enforcement of the nation’s gun laws is primarily the responsibility of ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. Its agents and inspectors check to see that gun dealers obey laws governing sales. They look for evidence of “straw buyers” – people legally entitled to buy guns who then sell them to criminals or others who don’t want any records tying them to a specific gun.

ATF says such buyers are responsible for a large proportion of guns that wind up in the hands of violent drug cartels in Mexico.

“These illegal purchases,” ATF’s William Newell told Congress last month, are “a key source and supply of firearms for drug traffickers.”

The best way to improve enforcement of existing gun laws, said one veteran ATF agent, is to put more badges on the street.

“Give us more people to inspect gun dealers, looking for straw buyers, in the states where the guns smuggled into Mexico are coming from,” he says.


The number of ATF inspectors has remained remarkably flat in the past two decades, while support staffing has grown in other federal agencies, including the FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration.

ATF had 764 inspectors in 1990. It has 771 today.

The number of ATF agents has risen 32% during the same period, but it is a comparatively small agency. ATF has 2,441 agents today, compared to the FBI’s 13,040 and the DEA’s 5,235.

It’s no accident that the size of ATF’s inspections force has remained flat. The NRA has successfully fought efforts to expand inspections, claiming that licensed firearms dealers have been harassed.

“Despite its crime-fighting mission,” a recent report from the Congressional Research Service dryly observed, “ATF’s business relationships with the firearms industry and larger gun-owning community have been a perennial source of tension.”

If new agents are hired, says the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre, “You need to make sure they’re directed to go after the bad guys, because owning firearms is a right in the United States, and what you don’t want to do is harass law abiding people.”

The NRA is on a roll. The Supreme Court ruled last year that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right of gun ownership, not merely the right of organized militias to arm themselves.


Unless the mid-term election brings a substantial change in the composition of Congress, an assault weapons ban has little chance of becoming law under Barack Obama, and ATF will not be able to count on a larger force of agents and inspectors.

Gun control, once considered a soccer-mom issue popular in suburban America, is again radioactive.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30389664/

[irvin4evs]

What is the point of assault rifles, again? So I can mow down 50 burglars who show up at my house? So I can turn a herd of deer into a colossus of smoldering lampshades?

[iceberg]

What is the point of assault rifles, again? So I can mow down 50 burglars who show up at my house? So I can turn a herd of deer into a colossus of smoldering lampshades?

so i can have one. what difference does it make to you? how come the way YOU think is the way you seem to feel EVERYONE should think?

btw - your ignorance is showing. assault rifles you and i can buy are single shot. 3 round bursts are law enforcement and military only.

[Danny White]

What is the point of assault rifles, again? So I can mow down 50 burglars who show up at my house? So I can turn a herd of deer into a colossus of smoldering lampshades?
Speaking of that...

What's the point of sports cars? What, you need to drive 100 mph or something? You think you're some kind of NASCAR driver?

And what's the point of 50 inch HD TVs? What, you can't see good enough on a 45 inch TV? What, regular reception isn't good enough for you... do you need more than 3 channels or something?



I have the mother of all assault rifles. It's a thing of beauty and a joy to shoot. I'm happy to hear that Obama and the Dems don't have the political support to pass this silly ban now. I hope it stays that way, but I'm not optimistic.

[iceberg]

Speaking of that...

What's the point of sports cars? What, you need to drive 100 mph or something? You think you're some kind of NASCAR driver?

And what's the point of 50 inch HD TVs? What, you can't see good enough on a 45 inch TV? What, regular reception isn't good enough for you... do you need more than 3 channels or something?

I have the mother of all assault rifles. It's a thing of beauty and a joy to shoot. I'm happy to hear that Obama and the Dems don't have the political support to pass this silly ban now. I hope it stays that way, but I'm not optimistic.

i just got a DPMS AR15 M4.

[ScipioCowboy]

What is the point of assault rifles, again? So I can mow down 50 burglars who show up at my house? So I can turn a herd of deer into a colossus of smoldering lampshades?

Read the Second Amendment. It effectively lays out the reasoning behind the right to keep and bear arms.

[trickblue]

What is the point of assault rifles, again? So I can mow down 50 burglars who show up at my house? So I can turn a herd of deer into a colossus of smoldering lampshades?

What is the point of 60" TV's... houses over 2000 square feet... SUV's... cars that go over 70 mph...

It's a right... it's all you need to know... you worry about yourself and let the rest of us exercise our second amendment rights...

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean we should have it taken away...

[BrAinPaiNt]

This can not be, I was assured by many paranoid people that he was going to go door to door and take all of our weapons away, not just assault weapons.

Oh Noes.

Puts on tin foil hat.:p:

[ConcordCowboy]

This can not be, I was assured by many paranoid people that he was going to go door to door and take all of our weapons away, not just assault weapons.

Oh Noes.

Puts on tin foil hat.:p:

Can the Apocalypse really happen now?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Can the Apocalypse really happen now?

http://www.ugo.com/filmtv/top11-classicrock/images/apocnow.jpg

The horror... the horror...

[arglebargle]

Read the Second Amendment. It effectively lays out the reasoning behind the right to keep and bear arms.

And the funny thing is, the Second Amendment would definitely seem to support more militaristic weapons ownership. :)

I don't hunt, and the only weapons I am really interested in and collect are military ones.

[ConcordCowboy]

http://www.ugo.com/filmtv/top11-classicrock/images/apocnow.jpg

The horror... the horror...

Nice.

[ScipioCowboy]

And the funny thing is, the Second Amendment would definitely seem to support more militaristic weapons ownership. :)

I don't hunt, and the only weapons I am really interested in and collect are military ones.

Most definitely.

To be honest, I've always been envious of the Swiss model. Switzerland has very few professional soldier. An armed citizenry is the country's primary protection; consequently, its citizens are allowed fully automatic weapons.

A citizen army is probably unrealistic for a country of our size and power, but it's noble concept nonetheless.

[irvin4evs]

Let's not compare weapons designed to kill things in a rapid succession with petty luxury items. Thanks.

And I'm not the person who will take seriously analogies of excess. I don't support any of the things you people talk about. See a trend? I don't see the inherent virtue of doing something just cuz I ****ing can.

Read the Second Amendment. It effectively lays out the reasoning behind the right to keep and bear arms.

To fight the federal government? You won't do that.

The logic of the 2nd Amendment makes equally justified the possession of nukes. Go ahead and tell me how it doesn't.

[Danny White]

Let's not compare weapons designed to kill things in a rapid succession with petty luxury items. Thanks.



You're right. There's no right to own petty luxury items in the Bill of Rights.

[irvin4evs]

The Constitution and Bill of Rights as a whole is a very ambiguous document made several eras ago. I don't understand the dogma towards it.

Even the 1st amendment we all love so much was never meant to actually be granted to us. it was expected that the states would crush all acts of sedition, leaving the federal government uninvolved and the 1st amendment as it is worded preserved.

[ScipioCowboy]

To fight the federal government? You won't do that.

I won't? According to whom?

This is humorous. First, you say this:

And I'm not the person who will take seriously analogies of excess.

Then, you say this:

The logic of the 2nd Amendment makes equally justified the possession of nukes. Go ahead and tell me how it doesn't.

Talk about excess. Your point is absurd. How many people in the US actually have the wealth and means to acquire a nuclear weapon?

The topic of nuclear weapons is an interesting one. A few years ago, I read an article at MSNBC.com. It stated that any threat of a nuclear attack on American soil would probably involve a dirty bomb rather than an actual nuclear warhead.

A dirty bomb consists of radioactive materials strapped to a conventional explosive. When the bomb explodes, it throws the radioactive material into the air, and disperses it over a wide radius, poisoning and killing many people without causing substantial damage to buildings and infrastructure.

Now, here's the canker: The radioactive material necessary to create the bomb is so prevalent in industry that it's virtually unregulated and accessible to almost anyone. So, literally anybody can make these bombs.

Once again, gun control only provides the illusion of security, not actual security. You question the virtue of doing something just because you can. Similarly, I question the virtue of circumventing our constitutional rights (either via anti-gun legislation or illegal wiretaps) solely to engender a false feeling of safety.

[SuspectCorner]

so i can have one. what difference does it make to you? how come the way YOU think is the way you seem to feel EVERYONE should think?

btw - your ignorance is showing. assault rifles you and i can buy are single shot. 3 round bursts are law enforcement and military only.

So explain why some perps have the kind that mow down under-gunned cops and herds of civilians with a ferocity.

[SuspectCorner]

Read the Second Amendment. It effectively lays out the reasoning behind the right to keep and bear arms.

To my way of thinking, there is no reason for a civilian to have a high-capacity automatic weapon other than to kill men. In bunches.

[ScipioCowboy]

So explain why some perps have the kind that mow down under-gunned cops and herds of civilians with a ferocity.

Because they acquire them illegally, regardless of gun laws.

[ScipioCowboy]

To my way of thinking, there is no reason for a civilian to have a high-capacity automatic weapon other than to kill men. In bunches.

...which, unfortunately, has become necessary at times throughout mankind's sordid history.

[arglebargle]

...Once again, gun control only provides the illusion of security, not actual security. You question the virtue of doing something just because you can. Similarly, I question the virtue of circumventing our constitutional rights (either via anti-gun legislation or illegal wiretaps) solely to engender a false feeling of safety.


:hammer:

[SuspectCorner]

Because they acquire them illegally, regardless of gun laws.

Is it actually pretty easy to legally acquire, say, an AK47 on the US market - at gunshows in particular? And then is it also pretty easy to illegally convert that weapon back to full-on auto?

[ScipioCowboy]

Is it actually pretty easy to legally acquire, say, an AK47 on the US market - at gunshows in particular? And then is it also pretty easy to illegally convert that weapon back to full-on auto?

A number of semi-automatic rifles can be converted to rapid fire relatively easily.

For that matter, it's a fairly simple procedure to make deadly explosives using everyday household chemicals.

As I said in another post, the safety is purely illusory.

[SuspectCorner]

A number of semi-automatic rifles can be converted to rapid fire relatively easily.

For that matter, it's a fairly simple procedure to make deadly explosives using everyday household chemicals.

As I said in another post, the safety is purely illusory.

I think I understand your point that those who wish to kill can find multiple avenues to vent that desire. I was just thinking that, in a standoff situation between cops and a lone wolf killer, the perp might be easier to take down if he was armed with a pipe bomb instead of being girded with a kevlar jacket and armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. And I promise this isn't a lame attempt at sarcasm.

[jwhardin]

Law enforcement hasn't shown an ability to stop much of anything, not even existing gun laws. They can only investigate after some criminal violates your home or business. And yes I would fight against an abusive federal government, just as my ancestors did during the revolution and my great great uncles and great grandfather did in the civil war.

[ThaBigP]

This can not be, I was assured by many paranoid people that he was going to go door to door and take all of our weapons away, not just assault weapons.

Oh Noes.

Puts on tin foil hat.:p:

Don't get too cozy just yet...while the legislation may not have legs at the moment, he has already run down to Mexico and said we need an international treaty regulating gun ownership and transfers.

For the Progressives, if you as an individual won't walk their line voluntarily, they pass laws to make you walk the line. If the legislature doesn't come through, they give it to the courts to force you to walk the line. If that fails, international treaties will do the job, and those are the hardest of all to back out of.

[ThaBigP]

This can not be, I was assured by many paranoid people that he was going to go door to door and take all of our weapons away, not just assault weapons.

Oh Noes.

Puts on tin foil hat.:p:

On another note, while you're adorning your head with a tin-foil hat to mock the 2nd Amendment folks, riddle me this:

He stated himself he wanted this ban.

He tried to get some legs on the legislation.

Congress, however, is reluctant to take a swing at that hornet's nest.

And, all of that (at least to you), constitutes "proof" that Obama doesn't want the gun ban? And that those who suggested he wanted one were crazy?

[ThaBigP]

The Constitution and Bill of Rights as a whole is a very ambiguous document made several eras ago. I don't understand the dogma towards it.

Even the 1st amendment we all love so much was never meant to actually be granted to us. it was expected that the states would crush all acts of sedition, leaving the federal government uninvolved and the 1st amendment as it is worded preserved.

My God, what bad movie do you get your history and Constitutional theory from?

[DIAF]

BUT I WAS TOLD OBAMA WAS GOING TO COME FOR MY GUNS!

mind = blown

world = shattered

[Bonecrusher#31]

Perps BEWARE

I won't miss you with my AK-74 but if I do my wife will be blazing 2--9MM's Tauruses at you !!!!

Stay away from Crusher's crib.

and when I'm out I always carry a concealable 9MM Kahr everywhere I go.

All patrons are safe when I'm around. Just hit the deck !!!!!!












and yes I have a concealed weapons permit:)

[iceberg]

So explain why some perps have the kind that mow down under-gunned cops and herds of civilians with a ferocity.

do i really need to?

1. i bought mine legally.
2. criminals won't, banned or not.

i can't believe some people really ask that question.

[iceberg]

To my way of thinking, there is no reason for a civilian to have a high-capacity automatic weapon other than to kill men. In bunches.

again - a show of ignorance here (of the topic, not you suspect).

i cannot buy an automatic weapon. you cannot buy one. they are illegal.

the weapons in question are single fire versions of the ones that do 3 round bursts now. the fully automatic i believe (my ignorance here perhaps) are not around much as people wasted ammo and they were made to 3 round bursts.

i DO NOT have a fully automatic weapon. criminals will but they're criminals and if they can get illegal guns NOW banning the ones i can get won't stop them, will it?

[iceberg]

I think I understand your point that those who wish to kill can find multiple avenues to vent that desire. I was just thinking that, in a standoff situation between cops and a lone wolf killer, the perp might be easier to take down if he was armed with a pipe bomb instead of being girded with a kevlar jacket and armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. And I promise this isn't a lame attempt at sarcasm.

fine - now go after the criminals, NOT the law abiding citizens who DO NOT purchase the fully auto versions. you keep using the criminals as your example of why *i* can't buy a gun that isn't even what *they* have and it's a seriously mixed analogy.

you seem to want to mitigate down to the extreme and that only hurts the people who abide by the laws and just want the gun. you seem to feel everyone who purchases one of those guns is gonna go ape-caca and take out towns with a fully automatic weapon OF WHICH they did not buy.

you're talking 2 different scenarios here.

[BrAinPaiNt]

do i really need to?

1. i bought mine legally.
2. criminals won't, banned or not.

i can't believe some people really ask that question.

Why would they not buy them just like others do, in gun shows say in Virginia where you have no back ground check and in some cases never show an ID at all?

Why not buy them like that? Probably much cheaper for them then buying them off the black market.

[iceberg]

Why would they not buy them just like others do, in gun shows say in Virginia where you have no back ground check and in some cases never show an ID at all?

Why not buy them like that? Probably much cheaper for them then buying them off the black market.

oh, could be. but suspect seems to think i can go buy a fully automatic assault rifle and i can't. not legally.

yet if he's mad the criminals have them now banning the lesser version of that rifle won't slow them down at all, would it? that's my point really.

[BrAinPaiNt]

oh, could be. but suspect seems to think i can go buy a fully automatic assault rifle and i can't. not legally.

yet if he's mad the criminals have them now banning the lesser version of that rifle won't slow them down at all, would it? that's my point really.

But the point has also been made that it is not that hard to turn some semi autos into fully autos and I bet there are a lot of fully autos out there that were bought as semi...no facts to back that up but I imagine I am not too far off the mark on that one.

[iceberg]

But the point has also been made that it is not that hard to turn some semi autos into fully autos and I bet there are a lot of fully autos out there that were bought as semi...no facts to back that up but I imagine I am not too far off the mark on that one.

of that i have no idea what it would take but that's a good point. i still wouldn't punish the innocent cause the criminals will get the guns anyway.

[Jarv]

Why would they not buy them just like others do, in gun shows say in Virginia where you have no back ground check and in some cases never show an ID at all?

Why not buy them like that? Probably much cheaper for them then buying them off the black market.

Is that really true ? I have a pistol permit and own a few guns, ironically I don't own a working pistol, but you need a permit here in CT to buy a rifle or shotgun.

I think that is a separate matter and people should not be allowed to buy any firearms without the proper documentation, which has nothing to do with a ban.

How the heck can people buy guns at a trade show without ID or proper permits ? I swear I've never heard of that !

[ThaBigP]

But the point has also been made that it is not that hard to turn some semi autos into fully autos and I bet there are a lot of fully autos out there that were bought as semi...no facts to back that up but I imagine I am not too far off the mark on that one.

True...many semi-auto variants are precisely that...just a variant of a rifle that is manufactured in both fully-auto and select-fire variants. Changing out the firing mechanism is all it takes. That, however, is already illegal unless licensed to do so (and it's very difficult to get one of those licenses...not like getting a CFL). In fact, with modification any semi-auto pistol, shotgun, or rifle can be made fully automatic. Does it therefore follow that semi-auto weapons should be banned?

If so, got some bad news for you - it's easier to mix alcohol and an automobile and kill dozens at a time if one so chooses. Are automobile bans and prohibition coming back then?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Is that really true ? I have a pistol permit and own a few guns, ironically I don't own a working pistol, but you need a permit here in CT to buy a rifle or shotgun.

I think that is a separate matter and people should not be allowed to buy any firearms without the proper documentation, which has nothing to do with a ban.

How the heck can people buy guns at a trade show without ID or proper permits ? I swear I've never heard of that !

Yes I saw some story on this. There were some students that lost friends or relatives during the VT campus shooting.

They got together and pushed some bill that had something to do with gun show sales in Virginia that looked like it was going to pass but just fell short by a vote or two.

The story I saw showed people going into a gun show and they talked to someone that just bought a gun that said that they were asked to show their ID but did not want to so the guy selling the guns just said he would add on $15.00 to the total price and they agreed. So I must clarify that It appears they are supposed to do this but it would also appear that it is not really enforced.

[ScipioCowboy]

of that i have no idea what it would take but that's a good point. i still wouldn't punish the innocent cause the criminals will get the guns anyway.

Gun control is an intrinsically flawed concept. It assumes erroneously (in my opinion) that crime can be curbed by attempting to regulate a means of violence rather than the source of violence: human behavior.

Gun control is undone because it fails to account for two points:

1) Those who would commit crimes and violent acts don't obey the laws.

2) Humankind possesses an almost boundless creativity for causing destruction and creating means for destruction.

Humans don't require firearms to kill and murder; some of the worst massacres in human history -- even in modern times -- were done without guns. Causing great devastation is as easy as filling a truck with manure and jet fuel, and driving it into a building.

It's been done.

[BrAinPaiNt]

True...many semi-auto variants are precisely that...just a variant of a rifle that is manufactured in both fully-auto and select-fire variants. Changing out the firing mechanism is all it takes. That, however, is already illegal unless licensed to do so (and it's very difficult to get one of those licenses...not like getting a CFL). In fact, with modification any semi-auto pistol, shotgun, or rifle can be made fully automatic. Does it therefore follow that semi-auto weapons should be banned?

If so, got some bad news for you - it's easier to mix alcohol and an automobile and kill dozens at a time if one so chooses. Are automobile bans and prohibition coming back then?

Yes I know it is illegal to do that, the point I was making is that people say criminals don't go and buy guns legally...well in cases like gun shows in virginia they very well can go and buy them like that and make the changes afterwards.

It would be much easier and cheaper to buy like that and then modify later...that is my only point.:)

[ScipioCowboy]

Yes I know it is illegal to do that, the point I was making is that people say criminals don't go and buy guns legally...well in cases like gun shows in virginia they very well can go and buy them like that and make the changes afterwards.

It would be much easier and cheaper to buy like that and then modify later...that is my only point.:)

Are you trying to tell us something? Are you stockpiling?:eek:

[BrAinPaiNt]

Are you trying to tell us something? Are you stockpiling?:eek:

:laugh2:

No but I do know that my father in law did that very thing years ago. Now he sold all of his rifles a few years ago.

[iceberg]

Yes I know it is illegal to do that, the point I was making is that people say criminals don't go and buy guns legally...well in cases like gun shows in virginia they very well can go and buy them like that and make the changes afterwards.

It would be much easier and cheaper to buy like that and then modify later...that is my only point.:)

well *i* never said criminals won't buy guns legally, i just said if they're going to break laws, making it illegal won't stop them.