"Outing" CIA folks...

[lewpac]

Remember the hissy-fit that the Dems and Libs threw when they made Valerie Plame their "lets get George Bush" tactic de jour?

Even though it was all a lie to cover for her traitor husband, every uber-lib Dem in Congress lost their frickin' minds over the "outing" of Valarie Plame....which turned out to nothing of the sort.

Now, "outing" of the CIA is in vogue, modern, cool and hip. Suddenly, if we don't support undermining our National Intel. folks, you're "out of step" and "un American.

Funny thing this new America of "change and hope"...........

[CowboyFan74]

More castrations:mad::mad:

[Cajuncowboy]

Remember the hissy-fit that the Dems and Libs threw when they made Valerie Plame their "lets get George Bush" tactic de jour?

Even though it was all a lie to cover for her traitor husband, every uber-lib Dem in Congress lost their frickin' minds over the "outing" of Valarie Plame....which turned out to nothing of the sort.

Now, "outing" of the CIA is in vogue, modern, cool and hip. Suddenly, if we don't support undermining our National Intel. folks, you're "out of step" and "un American.

Funny thing this new America of "change and hope"...........

Can't wait for this mistake to end.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Remember the hissy-fit that the Dems and Libs threw when they made Valerie Plame their "lets get George Bush" tactic de jour?

Even though it was all a lie to cover for her traitor husband, every uber-lib Dem in Congress lost their frickin' minds over the "outing" of Valarie Plame....which turned out to nothing of the sort.

Now, "outing" of the CIA is in vogue, modern, cool and hip. Suddenly, if we don't support undermining our National Intel. folks, you're "out of step" and "un American.

Funny thing this new America of "change and hope"...........

There is no crime or treason from Declassifying memos and documents through proper channels.

However ousting a Covert CIA agent through the media and denying doing it is another story.

And yes according to the investigation, the DOJ Special Counsel Fitzgerald found that she was in fact covert at the time and that is in his report.

According to Fitzgerald:

First, it was clear from very early in the investigation that Ms. Wilson qualified under the relevant statute (Title 50, United States Code, Section 421) as a covert agent whose identity had been disclosed by public officials, including Mr. Libby, to the press.
While not commenting on the reasons for the charging decisions as to any other persons, we can say that the reasons why Mr. Libby was not charged with an offense directly relating to his unauthorized disclosures of classified information regarding Ms. Wilson included, but were not limited to, the fact that Mr. Libby’s false testimony obscured a confident determination of what in fact occurred, particularly where the accounts of the reporters with whom Mr. Libby spoke (and their notes) did not include any explicit evidence specifically proving that Mr. Libby knew that Ms. Wilson was a covert agent. On the other hand, there was clear proof of perjury and obstruction of justice which could be prosecuted in a relatively straightforward trial.

[SuspectCorner]

There is no crime or treason from Declassifying memos and documents through proper channels.

However ousting a Covert CIA agent through the media and denying doing it is another story.

And yes according to the investigation, the DOJ Special Counsel Fitzgerald found that she was in fact covert at the time and that is in his report.

According to Fitzgerald:

First, it was clear from very early in the investigation that Ms. Wilson qualified under the relevant statute (Title 50, United States Code, Section 421) as a covert agent whose identity had been disclosed by public officials, including Mr. Libby, to the press.
While not commenting on the reasons for the charging decisions as to any other persons, we can say that the reasons why Mr. Libby was not charged with an offense directly relating to his unauthorized disclosures of classified information regarding Ms. Wilson included, but were not limited to, the fact that Mr. Libby’s false testimony obscured a confident determination of what in fact occurred, particularly where the accounts of the reporters with whom Mr. Libby spoke (and their notes) did not include any explicit evidence specifically proving that Mr. Libby knew that Ms. Wilson was a covert agent. On the other hand, there was clear proof of perjury and obstruction of justice which could be prosecuted in a relatively straightforward trial.

:spanking: < You go, BP.

[lewpac]

The only thing "covert" about Plame was her sex life in the bedroom.

Her and her old man are text book stooges for the political left lime light. They saw their window for their "15 minutes of fame" and milked it to the hilt. Two political whores..................

Bottom line...................where did it get them? If these two idiots were Republicans during the Clinton embarrassment, PMSNBC would've had them strung up and hanging from a tree before the sun came up..........

[BrAinPaiNt]

The only thing "covert" about Plame was her sex life in the bedroom.

Her and her old man are text book stooges for the political left lime light. They saw their window for their "15 minutes of fame" and milked it to the hilt. Two political whores..................

Bottom line...................where did it get them? If these two idiots were Republicans during the Clinton embarrassment, PMSNBC would've had them strung up and hanging from a tree before the sun came up..........

You can hem and haw and spew political rhetoric along with them after the fact...it does not however change the fact that according to the special counsel for the DOJ assigned to that investigation...she was at the time considered Covert Status.

It is shocking that so many still believe she was not and argue that she was not.

[arglebargle]

You can hem and haw and spew political rhetoric along with them after the fact...it does not however change the fact that according to the special counsel for the DOJ assigned to that investigation...she was at the time considered Covert Status.

It is shocking that so many still believe she was not and argue that she was not.

Well, this sort of thing would have been anathema to conservatives and Republicans in the '60's-90's. Compromising intelligence agents and their chain of field work was something laid at other's doorsteps. So when it happens, in house, there must have been some good reason for it, right??

Unfortunately, this was the MO for action against anyone who broke ranks. Given the track record, I can't see why anyone would even wonder whether they would do something like this.

[burmafrd]

From the moment Plame married a FORMER US AMBASSADOR she could NO longer be used as a covert agent. That little FACT somehow got missed in the whole mess.

[DIAF]

From the moment Plame married a FORMER US AMBASSADOR she could NO longer be used as a covert agent. That little FACT somehow got missed in the whole mess.

How is that? Is there some sort of rule against making someone covert if they have a higher-profile spouse?

I think the stories of her and her husband openly talking about working for the CIA are much more damaging, although they couldn't be proven.

[burmafrd]

Another little FACT. Buried deep in Fitzgeralds final report he admitted that there never was any real crime committed in outing Plame. That was why no charges were filed. All they got was stupid Libby who forgot that in Washington its not what starts it all that catches you= its the cover up.

[burmafrd]

It is understood in the world of intelligence gathering and the world spys work in that you cannot have anyone connected to either a current or former diplomat involved. The whole diplomatic immunity thing then gets a whole lot more messy.

[ThaBigP]

There is no crime or treason from Declassifying memos and documents through proper channels.

However ousting a Covert CIA agent through the media and denying doing it is another story.

And yes according to the investigation, the DOJ Special Counsel Fitzgerald found that she was in fact covert at the time and that is in his report.

According to Fitzgerald:

First, it was clear from very early in the investigation that Ms. Wilson qualified under the relevant statute (Title 50, United States Code, Section 421) as a covert agent whose identity had been disclosed by public officials, including Mr. Libby, to the press.
While not commenting on the reasons for the charging decisions as to any other persons, we can say that the reasons why Mr. Libby was not charged with an offense directly relating to his unauthorized disclosures of classified information regarding Ms. Wilson included, but were not limited to, the fact that Mr. Libby’s false testimony obscured a confident determination of what in fact occurred, particularly where the accounts of the reporters with whom Mr. Libby spoke (and their notes) did not include any explicit evidence specifically proving that Mr. Libby knew that Ms. Wilson was a covert agent. On the other hand, there was clear proof of perjury and obstruction of justice which could be prosecuted in a relatively straightforward trial.

If you believe that, then why are you not waiving pitchfork and torch in the air demanding former SecState Colon Powell's chief of staff be indicted? He, after all, was the source of the leak. Not Libby, the fall guy. He was indicted for "perjury", in which his testimony did not match that of a reporter's. Neveryoumind that that same reporter's testimony did not match that of other reporters. It was cherry-picked to get an indictment.

Where the leak actually came from, Armitage:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/30/leak.armitage/index.html

Fitzgerald *knew* who the real leaker was, yet declined to persue any charges, and instead focused on the process crime of mismatching testimony in regards to Libby.

*If* the case that her "covert" status was so air-tight, then why no actual indictments over the actual charge that actually started the mess against the actual person who actually leaked, allegedly in violation of the covert-ops statute?

[BrAinPaiNt]

If you believe that, then why are you not waiving pitchfork and torch in the air demanding former SecState Colon Powell's chief of staff be indicted? He, after all, was the source of the leak. Not Libby, the fall guy. He was indicted for "perjury", in which his testimony did not match that of a reporter's. Neveryoumind that that same reporter's testimony did not match that of other reporters. It was cherry-picked to get an indictment.

Where the leak actually came from, Armitage:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/30/leak.armitage/index.html

Fitzgerald *knew* who the real leaker was, yet declined to persue any charges, and instead focused on the process crime of mismatching testimony in regards to Libby.

*If* the case that her "covert" status was so air-tight, then why no actual indictments over the actual charge that actually started the mess against the actual person who actually leaked, allegedly in violation of the covert-ops statute?

I already knew Armitage was the leak. I am not waving pitchforks either.

The point I was makings is the OP ranting and raving about something perfectly legal thorough proper channels and complaining about dems whining about the plame situation in the past. Two totally different scenarios.

[burmafrd]

The original intent was to protect overseas CIA agents from exposure which several lefties did do in the 70's. Somehow the covert status got expanded to include those that never left the US or ever actually acted in a covert operation. From all evidence I have ever heard, Plame was never ACTIVE as a covert agent. And technically the CIA is not supposed to operate in the US anyway. Though that kind of got ignored over the years.

[sacase]

There is no crime or treason from Declassifying memos and documents through proper channels.

However ousting a Covert CIA agent through the media and denying doing it is another story.

And yes according to the investigation, the DOJ Special Counsel Fitzgerald found that she was in fact covert at the time and that is in his report.

According to Fitzgerald:

First, it was clear from very early in the investigation that Ms. Wilson qualified under the relevant statute (Title 50, United States Code, Section 421) as a covert agent whose identity had been disclosed by public officials, including Mr. Libby, to the press.
While not commenting on the reasons for the charging decisions as to any other persons, we can say that the reasons why Mr. Libby was not charged with an offense directly relating to his unauthorized disclosures of classified information regarding Ms. Wilson included, but were not limited to, the fact that Mr. Libby’s false testimony obscured a confident determination of what in fact occurred, particularly where the accounts of the reporters with whom Mr. Libby spoke (and their notes) did not include any explicit evidence specifically proving that Mr. Libby knew that Ms. Wilson was a covert agent. On the other hand, there was clear proof of perjury and obstruction of justice which could be prosecuted in a relatively straightforward trial.

First, I work with a former CIA Chief of Station, who would argue differnt.

Second, if your married to an ambassador, your no longer in "Cover" status.

[Rogah]

The whole Plame thing was blown way the heck out of proportion. Was it proper to release her name? No, it wasn't. But let's not act like she was working deep undercover in the Kremlin and then get a date with a firing squad or anything like that.

[DIAF]

The whole Plame thing was blown way the heck out of proportion. Was it proper to release her name? No, it wasn't. But let's not act like she was working deep undercover in the Kremlin and then get a date with a firing squad or anything like that.

Obviously. The special counsel had what, 2 years and all he could come up with was a weak-*** lying under oath charge against Scooter Libby?

[burmafrd]

The libs made such a big deal about how much white water cost. Did anyone ever count up how much plamegate cost- and they got one single lousy conviction there?

[tyke1doe]

Remember the hissy-fit that the Dems and Libs threw when they made Valerie Plame their "lets get George Bush" tactic de jour?

Even though it was all a lie to cover for her traitor husband, every uber-lib Dem in Congress lost their frickin' minds over the "outing" of Valarie Plame....which turned out to nothing of the sort.

Now, "outing" of the CIA is in vogue, modern, cool and hip. Suddenly, if we don't support undermining our National Intel. folks, you're "out of step" and "un American.

Funny thing this new America of "change and hope"...........

Exactly which CIA agent was "outted" by name? :huh:

[burmafrd]

More to the point many CIA personel were mentioned by name on the memos. But of course you don't care do you?

[RumblinTumblinWitten]

Remember the hissy-fit that the Dems and Libs threw when they made Valerie Plame their "lets get George Bush" tactic de jour?

Even though it was all a lie to cover for her traitor husband, every uber-lib Dem in Congress lost their frickin' minds over the "outing" of Valarie Plame....which turned out to nothing of the sort.

Now, "outing" of the CIA is in vogue, modern, cool and hip. Suddenly, if we don't support undermining our National Intel. folks, you're "out of step" and "un American.

Funny thing this new America of "change and hope"...........
Hmmm, declasifying legal memos on torture techniques that the general public was already aware of is not quite the same thing as outing an undercover CIA op for political reasons to get back at her husband.

[RumblinTumblinWitten]

More to the point many CIA personel were mentioned by name on the memos. But of course you don't care do you?

Plame was undercover and had to quit her job because her work was compromised. Any other legal ativity for the CIA that these people may be engaging in wasn't compromised.

Furthemore, outing Plame was done to get back at her husband for saying the Bush administration was lying about Iraq getting yellow cake uranium from Niger. And as it turns out he was right.

[DFWJC]

Remember the hissy-fit that the Dems and Libs threw when they made Valerie Plame their "lets get George Bush" tactic de jour?

Even though it was all a lie to cover for her traitor husband, every uber-lib Dem in Congress lost their frickin' minds over the "outing" of Valarie Plame....which turned out to nothing of the sort.

Now, "outing" of the CIA is in vogue, modern, cool and hip. Suddenly, if we don't support undermining our National Intel. folks, you're "out of step" and "un American.

Funny thing this new America of "change and hope"...........

I can't believe I haven't given that slant some thought...you're absolutely right. The hypocrisy is way out of control.

I realize that it is more complicated than that, but your point is valid.

[burmafrd]

If you would bother to get your info from somewhere other then daily kos and the like you would know Plame was NEVER an active agent. She was NEVER an actual covert operative though she was classified as one. AND once she became the wife of a former ambassador as I have mentioned she would never be one anyway.
As it turned out Wilson was also mostly wrong in what he claimed- Saddam had tried in the past to get yellow cake from niger. Just not recently.

And As I said you clearly do not care about the identities of CIA employees being outed in those memos.

[RumblinTumblinWitten]

If you would bother to get your info from somewhere other then daily kos and the like you would know Plame was NEVER an active agent. She was NEVER an actual covert operative though she was classified as one. AND once she became the wife of a former ambassador as I have mentioned she would never be one anyway.
As it turned out Wilson was also mostly wrong in what he claimed- Saddam had tried in the past to get yellow cake from niger. Just not recently.

And As I said you clearly do not care about the identities of CIA employees being outed in those memos.

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Hence, lie.

[DIAF]

More to the point many CIA personel were mentioned by name on the memos. But of course you don't care do you?

To be fair, they probably don't have covert status.

[burmafrd]

So its fine to spout their identity anyway?

[burmafrd]

So rumbling, since you humiliated yourself with other stupid posts you must feel good with that one, right?

[DIAF]

So its fine to spout their identity anyway?

Legally speaking? Yes.

[burmafrd]

And of course that is all you care about right?

[DIAF]

It's all that matters in this particular discussion, since this whole thread is about comparing the Valarie Plame "leak" with declassifying CIA documents and memos.

[burmafrd]

Lets see: Fitzgerald in the end decided no crime had been committed as regards the law about so called covert status agents identity being leaked.
Technically no law is broken about the memo's identifying CIA workers. I guess maybe its not politically correct to wonder if while something is legal maybe its not RIGHT?

[DIAF]

Lets see: Fitzgerald in the end decided no crime had been committed as regards the law about so called covert status agents identity being leaked.
Technically no law is broken about the memo's identifying CIA workers. I guess maybe its not politically correct to wonder if while something is legal maybe its not RIGHT?

Perhaps you should go back a page or so and get my thoughts on the Plame matter. But no matter what I think about it, "legally" (technically) Valerie Plame had covert status. None of these people mentioned in the CIA memos did (to our knowledge, anyways).

So you are going from an argument of "no big deal" about Plame's outing to some sort of outrage at democrats releasing CIA memos with people's names on them. I wouldn't exactly call that consistent.

For the record, i give about three craps about either of these situations.

[RumblinTumblinWitten]

Lets see: Fitzgerald in the end decided no crime had been committed as regards the law about so called covert status agents identity being leaked.
Technically no law is broken about the memo's identifying CIA workers. I guess maybe its not politically correct to wonder if while something is legal maybe its not RIGHT?
Scooter Libby lied under oath and obstructed justice, hence we will never know what really happened because they were lying to the prosecutors.

[RumblinTumblinWitten]

So rumbling, since you humiliated yourself with other stupid posts you must feel good with that one, right?
not really sure what posts you are referring to. Maybe this occurred in your conservative fantasy land (like Faux news).

[DIAF]

Scooter Libby lied under oath and obstructed justice, hence we will never know what really happened because they were lying to the prosecutors.

BS.

Scooter Libby lied under oath to cover ***, but Fitzgerald had NOTHING. NOTHING. Two years and lying under oath is all he could come up with. If his entire case was to be built on what one person's testimony was, he has NO case.

[DIAF]

not really sure what posts you are referring to. Maybe this occurred in your conservative fantasy land (like Faux news).

This is some seriously weak lumber being swung. Is this the alternate account of VC or something?

[burmafrd]

Actually VC is worse- but the edge there is NOT great.
Its easy to identify the really sad ones- they have this fantasy about Fox that somehow Daily Kos and such are supposedly more accurate. Pathetic.

[RumblinTumblinWitten]

BS.

Scooter Libby lied under oath to cover ***, but Fitzgerald had NOTHING. NOTHING. Two years and lying under oath is all he could come up with. If his entire case was to be built on what one person's testimony was, he has NO case.
Why did he lie then? Someone is being a little naive.

[DIAF]

Why did he lie then? Someone is being a little naive.

To cover someone's (or his own) ***, of course. Someone is being a little STUPID here if they think that lying is a slam-dunk for guilt, especially since NOTHING. ELSE. COULD. BE. PROVEN.

You have nothing. Just like Fitzgerald had. NOTHING.

[sacase]

Plame was undercover and had to quit her job because her work was compromised. Any other legal ativity for the CIA that these people may be engaging in wasn't compromised.

Furthemore, outing Plame was done to get back at her husband for saying the Bush administration was lying about Iraq getting yellow cake uranium from Niger. And as it turns out he was right.

Plame was NOT in "cover" status. You cannot be in "cover", if your husband is an ambassador. Period. Her work was not comprimised at all. She didn't have to quit because she was not in a protected position. CIA agents get burned all the time, its a part of the job. Worst case, they get reassigned to a position that doesn't require them to be in cover status. But Plame was already there, so it didnt' matter.