Bristol Palin

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm here in D.C. this week and I have to say that the Bristol Palin thing is getting a great deal of air time.

I ask you guys, what do you think of this whole thing? Palin is saying, as I understand it, that abstinence is the best way to go. This is certainly not the first time we've heard this message but as I watch this thing, it seems to be polarizing people. On the one hand, you have those who are saying, "How stupid. She didn't adhere to this practice so how can she be anybody to try and tell anyone not to do what she has already done."

I understand this point of view but I can't say that I agree with it.

On the other hand, you have people saying, "Why not her? She is living the situation. Who better to warn young people of just how difficult it is?"

We have recovering alcoholics running AA programs. We have recovering addicts, former criminals, former gang members talking to like minded young people trying to educate them in this country.

What are your thoughts on this?

[BrAinPaiNt]

My thoughts are the GOP, or whoever is pushing this, is being kind of Silly throwing a Teenager out there for this...especially when they have complained how the media has attacked her. Then while she is doing this her baby's daddy is on another show saying they should teach about birth control as well.

Personally I think it would be in the Palin's best interest to stay low for a little while. Kind of hard to complain about the press attacking you if you keep going out there in the public to do things.

And I am not bashing the daughter here as I imagine it was not her idea but someone pushing her to do this and setting up the interviews and so on.

[ABQCOWBOY]

My thoughts are the GOP, or whoever is pushing this, is being kind of Silly throwing a Teenager out there for this...especially when they have complained how the media has attacked her. Then while she is doing this her baby's daddy is on another show saying they should teach about birth control as well.

Personally I think it would be in the Palin's best interest to stay low for a little while. Kind of hard to complain about the press attacking you if you keep going out there in the public to do things.

And I am not bashing the daughter here as I imagine it was not her idea but someone pushing her to do this and setting up the interviews and so on.

I am aware of no complaints by the Palin family on this issue. I am only aware of issues brought up during the campaign, which is different to me as Bristol had made no comments one way or the other at the time.

I am also not certain that this has anything to do with the GOP. From what I can tell, this is simply something Bristol Palin choose to be involved with. No formal support by the GOP, that I am aware of, has been publically stated.

[Doomsday101]

According to what I have heard this is something Bristol Palin wanted to do. She also did the interview with Greta and that was arranged by her and FOX not through her mother’s office or anyone else.

[TheCount]

I think the message is always more powerful coming from someone that has been there than someone that hasn't.

You see a guy dying from lung cancer warning against smoking, you're more likely to heed that message than some guy in a suit rattling off a list of potential dangers but neither side is really wrong. It's dangerous regardless of which person talks about it.

However Bristol's message has changed, considering just a couple of months ago she was saying abstinance wasn't a realistic option and her baby's father is still going around saying kids should learn about contraception.

I guess I just don't understand why you can't have both messages, not having sex is the only fool-proof way but you should still learn about contraception to avoid making the mistake Bristol made.

The argument gets divided by political lines too often, not neccesarily real world logic.

[DIAF]

I don't care about Bristol Palin, and neither should anyone else. This is not news, stop throwing her out there.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the message is always more powerful coming from someone that has been there than someone that hasn't.

You see a guy dying from lung cancer warning against smoking, you're more likely to heed that message than some guy in a suit rattling off a list of potential dangers but neither side is really wrong. It's dangerous regardless of which person talks about it.

However Bristol's message has changed, considering just a couple of months ago she was saying abstinance wasn't a realistic option and her baby's father is still going around saying kids should learn about contraception.

I guess I just don't understand why you can't have both messages, not having sex is the only fool-proof way but you should still learn about contraception to avoid making the mistake Bristol made.

The argument gets divided by political lines too often, not neccesarily real world logic.

I can not provide a link, nor can I even remember where or when I heard this but it seems that, during the campaign, when this was a hot topic, there was some reference to the fact that she and her boyfriend had used some sort of protection but it didn't work or something like that. I'm reaching here to try and remember so please excuse me if I don't have all the facts or they may be inaccurate. Anyway, that may be why she is saying no sex. I don't know. I do think it's good that she is doing this because I would think that, in light of her personal situation with the father (apparently out of the picture), she's at least making some money that can hopefully be used to take care of the child.

I don't know. You hate to see this situation with young people but it's going to happen. You just hope that some young people are paying attention.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't care about Bristol Palin, and neither should anyone else. This is not news, stop throwing her out there.

Good for you.

[DIAF]

Good for you.

Oh come off it. You conservative types screamed bloody murder that the press was talking about her during the campaign, calling it a non-story-non-issue-children-are-off-limits, now all of a sudden you do a 180 because the coverage is somewhat positive? Who cares. She's not running for office, she's never done anything noteworthy, she's just a teenage girl that had a kid who has a famous mom.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh come off it. You conservative types screamed bloody murder that the press was talking about her during the campaign, calling it a non-story-non-issue-children-are-off-limits, now all of a sudden you do a 180 because the coverage is somewhat positive? Who cares. She's not running for office, she's never done anything noteworthy, she's just a teenage girl that had a kid who has a famous mom.

Are you a parent?

[Doomsday101]

Oh come off it. You conservative types screamed bloody murder that the press was talking about her during the campaign, calling it a non-story-non-issue-children-are-off-limits, now all of a sudden you do a 180 because the coverage is somewhat positive? Who cares. She's not running for office, she's never done anything noteworthy, she's just a teenage girl that had a kid who has a famous mom.

As many of us would if the media attacked the Obama girls they should be off limits. In this case this is a project she wants to do during the campaign she was not saying or doing things to draw media attention and because of the tabloid stories and negative press yes that was wrong. Evidently you can't see the difference.

[ConcordCowboy]

Who in God's Name gives a flying Frick what Bristol Palin has to say on anything let alone abstinence.

[Doomsday101]

Who in God's Name gives a flying Frick what Bristol Palin has to say on anything let alone abstinence.

Maybe no one maybe someone will. That is normally how these type of messages work.

[ConcordCowboy]

Maybe no one maybe someone will. That is normally how these type of messages work.

Have plenty of Sex and use Condoms.

That should be her message.

:D

[Doomsday101]

Have plenty of Sex and use Condoms.

That should be her message.

:D

I don't know what her message will be. I have seen the one on one interview with her and she understands better than any of us guys the consequences. I commend her for putting herself out there and she will have to deal with the positive and negative comments that go along with it but it is her choice.

[Temo]

As far as Bristol Palin goes, if she feels abstinence-only education works, then I'm fine with her going around and saying as much.

However, I think the actual real-world evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only does not work, and I find that people who say otherwise aren't paying attention to the evidence but rather sticking to principle (which I do respect).

While telling kids to wait is obviously fine (because they should), the evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only education doesn't work. Texas, where virtually all the schools teach abstinence and abstinence alone, is very high on teen pregnancy. And it's been proven that communities big on preaching abstinence-only do not see the requisite results to justify its use.

[Doomsday101]

As far as Bristol Palin goes, if she feels abstinence-only education works, then I'm fine with her going around and saying as much.

However, I think the actual real-world evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only does not work, and I find that people who say otherwise aren't paying attention to the evidence but rather sticking to principle (which I do respect).

While telling kids to wait is obviously fine (because they should), the evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only education doesn't work. Texas, where virtually all the schools teach abstinence and abstinence alone, is very high on teen pregnancy. And it's been proven that communities big on preaching abstinence-only do not see the requisite results to justify its use.

Nothing works unless you do it, you can teach kids about condoms all you want but if they do not use them it does them no good. Schools teach kids about drugs yet kids still do drugs. Abstinence is 100% fool prove but if kids choose not to then of course it will not work. I think kids are a bit smarter than what many adults think especially in today’s world.

[jimnabby]

A couple comments:

Bristol Palin is getting paid for this, as the "ambassador" for the Candie's Foundation, which encourages abstinence among teenagers. (The Candie's Foundation is run by Neil Cole, the head of Candie's (http://www.candies.com/) - no, I'm not kidding).

Not too long ago, Bristol said in an interview that expecting teens to be abstinent was "not realistic".

From Gail Collins' Op-Ed piece in the NYT today: “We contacted the governor’s office, and the next thing we knew Todd Palin was on the phone and said Bristol wanted to talk,” Cole said, explaining how his ambassador had been recruited. And indeed, there was Todd, beaming as his beautiful daughter stood in front of about 50 shrieking photographers, smiling a fixed smile.

Personally, I wonder how much of this is Bristol and how much is her parents pushing her into it (and I question how much she believes her message). It just seems to me like a bad idea for everyone involved, but hey, it's her business, so who am I to judge?

[ConcordCowboy]

Not too long ago, Bristol said in an interview that expecting teens to be abstinent was "not realistic".


Really?

Shocking.

http://hoosieraccess.com/files/2008/10/snl_really.jpg

[ScipioCowboy]

As far as Bristol Palin goes, if she feels abstinence-only education works, then I'm fine with her going around and saying as much.

However, I think the actual real-world evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only does not work, and I find that people who say otherwise aren't paying attention to the evidence but rather sticking to principle (which I do respect).

While telling kids to wait is obviously fine (because they should), the evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only education doesn't work. Texas, where virtually all the schools teach abstinence and abstinence alone, is very high on teen pregnancy. And it's been proven that communities big on preaching abstinence-only do not see the requisite results to justify its use.

I attended a high school in Texas where contraception was taught, and it still had a high number of pregnancies.

However, I'm at the point of not caring whether or not contraception is taught in schools. I plan to be the primary source for sex education in my child's life, regardless of school curriculum.

I also support Bristol Palin's abstinence-encouragement endeavors. It seems that certain prominent elements within the media have successfully perpetuated the idea that abstinence, even among high school students, is somehow abnormal. They're essentially glorifying sex among teens -- which is their right.

The opposition viewpoint should be made known as well, however.

For the record, I waited until marriage, and I didn't get married until after graduate school.

[burmafrd]

Only for those without morals I guess its ridiculous to talk about abstinence.
Actually I think it should be used as a chalenge: Can you abstain- do you have the self control and the self discipline to say no? How STRONG are you?
THAT is the way it should be taught.

[Temo]

Only for those without morals I guess its ridiculous to talk about abstinence.
Actually I think it should be used as a chalenge: Can you abstain- do you have the self control and the self discipline to say no? How STRONG are you?
THAT is the way it should be taught.

I have no problem with abstinence education, I said as much. Just that teaching abstinence-only is not beneficial to the kids.

And Scipio, we can argue personal anecdotes all day, but the fact is that all the evidence suggests communities that teach safe sex to some extent end up with fewer pregnancies.

[ScipioCowboy]

I have no problem with abstinence education, I said as much. Just that teaching abstinence-only is not beneficial to the kids.

And Scipio, we can argue personal anecdotes all day, but the fact is that all the evidence suggests communities that teach safe sex to some extent end up with fewer pregnancies.

This wasn't may argument. Not once did I venture a comparison between safe-sex and abstinence-only education.

I was chiding the media for its portrayal and glorification of teenage sex, and wishing that more efforts were made to present the other side of argument.

[TheCount]

I also support Bristol Palin's abstinence-encouragement endeavors. It seems that certain prominent elements within the media have successfully perpetuated the idea that abstinence, even among high school students, is somehow abnormal. They're essentially glorifying sex among teens -- which is their right.

Who is glorifying sex among teens more than the teens themselves?

[JBond]

I have no problem with abstinence education, I said as much. Just that teaching abstinence-only is not beneficial to the kids.

And Scipio, we can argue personal anecdotes all day, but the fact is that all the evidence suggests communities that teach safe sex to some extent end up with fewer pregnancies.

So with all this teaching going on about condoms, why has out of wedlock birthrate skyrocketed to over 60 percent? Why is teen pregnancy on the rise? I guess like most ideas put forth by the liberals, this too is a failure. Can't say I'm surprised. I am sure the liberal solution would to be to spend a few billion more of tax payers money to "fix" it and then it would get better. Right?

[Doomsday101]

Who is glorifying sex among teens more than the teens themselves?

I think TV, movie and ads do a great job of glorifying and making profit off sex, hell what do they say SEX sells and the days of Leave it to Beaver are gone. Don't get me wrong I don't blame TV or Movies as a sole problem but it is naive to think that TV and Movies do not have great influence.

[JBond]

A couple comments:

Bristol Palin is getting paid for this, as the "ambassador" for the Candie's Foundation, which encourages abstinence among teenagers. (The Candie's Foundation is run by Neil Cole, the head of Candie's (http://www.candies.com/) - no, I'm not kidding).



The girl has to earn a living. She does have a baby to feed.;)

[Hoofbite]

As far as Bristol Palin goes, if she feels abstinence-only education works, then I'm fine with her going around and saying as much.

However, I think the actual real-world evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only does not work, and I find that people who say otherwise aren't paying attention to the evidence but rather sticking to principle (which I do respect).

While telling kids to wait is obviously fine (because they should), the evidence is pretty clear that abstinence-only education doesn't work. Texas, where virtually all the schools teach abstinence and abstinence alone, is very high on teen pregnancy. And it's been proven that communities big on preaching abstinence-only do not see the requisite results to justify its use.

Great point. Abstinence only is a fairy tale.

However I differ about those who claim its the only way.

I don't have a lot of respect for someone who claims there is only 1 way despite evidence saying that way sucks and there being reasonable alternatives. That's just stubborn.

We have recovering alcoholics running AA programs. We have recovering addicts, former criminals, former gang members talking to like minded young people trying to educate them in this country.

I understand this point but those people who are educating were addicts. Not talking about the gang members/criminals.

Just the alcoholics and addicts. For those people, there is no middle ground when it comes doing what they are advocating against. There is no social drinking, there is no having a beer with dinner. Those people either don't drink or they get smashed. The are against drinking because that is the only way for them.

The addicts too. Smoking pot every now and then wasn't an option. It was hardcore or nothing. I know its just a line from a movie but that scene in half baked where Dave Chapelle introduces himself in the NA meeting and Bob Saget goes after him is pretty fitting.

For the majority of the people at NA and AA meetings, their addictions were damn near self destructive. They had to stop.

Palin saying abstinence is the only way just doesn't have the same effect IMO. Aside from the fact that NA and AA members strive to never drink or use again while Palin is probably going to have sex again at some point, it just doesn't seem genuine.

If she didn't get knocked up, she'd still be doing it.

Addicts make the choice to stop. Sure, some are forced into the programs but the ones who are taking part in educating youth are there by choice and a desire to stop.

[TheCount]

I think TV, movie and ads do a great job of glorifying and making profit off sex, hell what do they say SEX sells and the days of Leave it to Beaver are gone. Don't get me wrong I don't blame TV or Movies as a sole problem but it is naive to think that TV and Movies do not have great influence.

Well maybe but I don't know many movies or ads that show teenagers having sex.

[Dallas]

Bristol is a great kid and is doing her best to raise her child. Once things settled down and after the thing w/ Levi was called off, her views on this whole thing started to change.

I dont have an issue w/ what she is doing. It is better to hear this from a young teen going through it. Just because she is Sarah Palins daughter shouldn't be an excuse to attack her and judge her.

Bottom line. She's not hurting you or me. She isn't out bashing anyone. She is trying to do a good thing. So what Candies is involved. Im sure she was approached to speak about it. Who cares? Someone has to pay for the travel and expense of her telling her story.

I think kids can't be taught enough about sex education. They need to know about contraception and abstinence.

Some of you are just mean old men. You guys have already made up your mind on why she is doing this. You aren't at all sure about it, but hahah you got it all figured out.

Absolutely nothing wrong w/ what she is doing.

As far as her being attacked during the campaign. That was pure BS and wrong. She never put herself out on a platform. The media did that and then they also took it upon themselves to tear her up over it.

This is entirely different.

Fact: The only reason you mean old guys are even slightly interested and have opinion is BECAUSE and only BECAUSE she is Sarah Palin's daughter and the venom you have for her mother can now be turned toward this teen daughter of hers.

[Doomsday101]

Well maybe but I don't know many movies or ads that show teenagers having sex.

I am not talking about showing them having sex as much as selling sex to teenagers and the general public there are not many shows out there that sex does not have a big role in it. Sex is very much a part of the public view and has been for a while. There was a time when much of what is on today would never have been shown on public TV.

[Dallas]

Well maybe but I don't know many movies or ads that show teenagers having sex.


You know what he's talking about. He didn't say teen sex. He said sex in general and its all in the movies and on tv.


Don't be slow.

[JBond]

Well maybe but I don't know many movies or ads that show teenagers having sex.


yeah, your probably right. There is no sex on tv or in movies. What a crazy thought that is. Could you imagine if there was? wow. Then we would have a real problem.

[JBond]

Well maybe but I don't know many movies or ads that show teenagers having sex.

I am guessing you do not get out much. here is an example. Do I really need to post the other 78 million?
http://www.availableimages.com/images/previews/American%20Pie%20(1999).jpg

[DIAF]

No teen sex in movies? What? Where do you live, India?

[TheCount]

I am not talking about showing them having sex as much as selling sex to teenagers and the general public there are not many shows out there that sex does not have a big role in it. Sex is very much a part of the public view and has been for a while. There was a time when much of what is on today would never have been shown on public TV.

You're absolutely right on that account, I just don't know that they are being specifically targeted.

More than likely sex is targeting an audience old enough to actually have sex, you don't see a half naked woman selling a box of Fruit Loops.

In the time when what's on today wouldn't have been shown, there was still sex, or sex appeal, used in various forms of advertising, I'm talking as far back as the late 1800's.

If a child, and a teenager is by all accounts still a child, sees this and thinks it means it's okay for them to have sex, then there is something else missing from this picture that should advise against that assumption.

[TheCount]

I am guessing you do not get out much. here is an example. Do I really need to post the other 78 million?
http://www.availableimages.com/images/previews/American%20Pie%20%281999%29.jpg

That movie was rated R and the actors were not teenagers, it wasn't targeting teenagers it was targeting college students.

[Dallas]

That movie was rated R and the actors were not teenagers, it wasn't targeting teenagers it was targeting college students.


They just graduated high school and the parties they had did have freshmen and lower HS class kids there. Go re-watch the original AP.


Silly to argue this but I had to point that out.



College students. :laugh2:

[TheCount]

They just graduated high school and the parties they had did have freshmen and lower HS class kids there. Go re-watch the original AP.


Silly to argue this but I had to point that out.



College students. :laugh2:

I'm not sure what you're failing to grasp. The characters were teenagers graduation highschool, the ACTORS were all well past that age and the movie was RATED R, so it was TARGETING college students NOT teenagers.

[Temo]

So with all this teaching going on about condoms, why has out of wedlock birthrate skyrocketed to over 60 percent? Why is teen pregnancy on the rise? I guess like most ideas put forth by the liberals, this too is a failure. Can't say I'm surprised. I am sure the liberal solution would to be to spend a few billion more of tax payers money to "fix" it and then it would get better. Right?

Teen pregnancy has generally (until the last couple years, IIRC) been on the decline (http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/07/10/teen.pregnancy/index.html)... EXCEPT for places where abstinence-only is practiced.

Out of wedlock births are irrelevant to this issue, as that's more a product of a lower rate of marriages overall, as is a global phenomena.

[Temo]

Count, I generally respect your opinions, but I think you're reaching on this one. To suggest that there isn't a general feeling in the media that teen sexual activity is perfectly normal is really sticking your head in the sand.

(Now, whether this reflects public opinion, or forms it, is a separate discussion)

[TheCount]

Count, I generally respect your opinions, but I think you're reaching on this one. To suggest that there isn't a general feeling in the media that teen sexual activity is perfectly normal is really sticking your head in the sand.

(Now, whether this reflects public opinion, or forms it, is a separate discussion)

Well I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me, I work with advertising for a living so I get a little peeved when someone suggests we're responsible for their 15 year old getting in a car drunk and killing someone because they saw an advertisement for Budweiser during a football game.

If your kid sees a movie with a guy having sex with an Apple pie and burns his junk off trying it at home, well that's on him.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Have plenty of Sex and use Condoms.

That should be her message.

:D

ugh condoms, like washing feet with socks on

she should be telling girls "a pill a day keeps the baby away, have you taken your pill today".

[arglebargle]

Abstinance only working is a myth. It didn't work that well in the past either. It is just that the ways of dealing with it have changed. Formerly in the US, it was shotgun marriages, back alley abortions, year long 'visits to an aunt' with the baby put up for adoption, and the like.

The evidence clearly shows that abstinance only education does not work as well as other methods. Of course, since it is an ideological issue, that is dismissed in favor of, 'we just need to spend more money on it'.

Historically, around the world, there are many periods when teenagers were getting married and having kids at 13 and 14, as standard practice.

[JBond]

Abstinance only working is a myth. It didn't work that well in the past either. It is just that the ways of dealing with it have changed. Formerly in the US, it was shotgun marriages, back alley abortions, year long 'visits to an aunt' with the baby put up for adoption, and the like.

The evidence clearly shows that abstinance only education does not work as well as other methods. Of course, since it is an ideological issue, that is dismissed in favor of, 'we just need to spend more money on it'.

Historically, around the world, there are many periods when teenagers were getting married and having kids at 13 and 14, as standard practice.

Will you explain the other 100% full proof ways of not getting pregnant? The Pill, condoms, the abortion pill and the old catholic favorite, the rhythm method are a susceptible to failure. Not sticking your noodle into a fellow teenager is the only full proof way of preventing teenage pregnancy.

[arglebargle]

Will you explain the other 100% full proof ways of not getting pregnant? The Pill, condoms, the abortion pill and the old catholic favorite, the rhythm method are a susceptible to failure. Not sticking your noodle into a fellow teenager is the only full proof way of preventing teenage pregnancy.


So you think promoting mutual oral sex is a good alternative then? :)

[arglebargle]

Will you explain the other 100% full proof ways of not getting pregnant? The Pill, condoms, the abortion pill and the old catholic favorite, the rhythm method are a susceptible to failure. Not sticking your noodle into a fellow teenager is the only full proof way of preventing teenage pregnancy.


The point is, there are higher pregnancy rates in areas stressing only abstinance. On the large scale, it doesn't work. Doesn't mean you can't teach about it, using the very logic you have proposed. Some will, some won't.

[JBond]

So you think promoting mutual oral sex is a good alternative then? :)

You claimed abstinence working is a myth. Please explain how not having sex gets people pregnant.:confused:

[arglebargle]

You claimed abstinence working is a myth. Please explain how not having sex gets people pregnant.:confused:

Because people do not abstain. They have never abstained (with any regularity). Biologically, they are not designed to abstain.

Abstinance as a concept, works perfectly. Throw in real people and the concept all too often becomes conception.

[Doomsday101]

You're absolutely right on that account, I just don't know that they are being specifically targeted.

More than likely sex is targeting an audience old enough to actually have sex, you don't see a half naked woman selling a box of Fruit Loops.

In the time when what's on today wouldn't have been shown, there was still sex, or sex appeal, used in various forms of advertising, I'm talking as far back as the late 1800's.

If a child, and a teenager is by all accounts still a child, sees this and thinks it means it's okay for them to have sex, then there is something else missing from this picture that should advise against that assumption.

They have burger king selling sponge bob square pants with good looking women with square butts doing the booty hustle for a kid’s meal. :laugh2:

[vta]

Well I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me, I work with advertising for a living so I get a little peeved when someone suggests we're responsible for their 15 year old getting in a car drunk and killing someone because they saw an advertisement for Budweiser during a football game.

If your kid sees a movie with a guy having sex with an Apple pie and burns his junk off trying it at home, well that's on him.

You have nothing to be peeved about. Pointing out the very real inverse kinematics of advertising is legitimate.

There is a reason companies spend millions to advertise their product: because they do influence buyer choices.

Time, money and resources spent, identifying a demographic and selling to that demographic. Children, Teens, Adults & Seniors. Categorized, broken down and sold to.

It's already part and parcel of our society to sell, be it in straight forward advertising, which in it's highest form is anything but straight forward, or within movies, news and what passes for news on entertainment channels.

And if you're going to accept that advertising works in favor of the company, which without a doubt it does, then you'll have to accept it will also create un-intended consequences.

[Doomsday101]

Well I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me, I work with advertising for a living so I get a little peeved when someone suggests we're responsible for their 15 year old getting in a car drunk and killing someone because they saw an advertisement for Budweiser during a football game.

If your kid sees a movie with a guy having sex with an Apple pie and burns his junk off trying it at home, well that's on him.

No one said they are responsible but they do influence people kids especially. Hell I can remember when Happy Days came out and all the kids were dressing like the Fonz. Kids see things and are influenced by them and anyone who think there is no affect is being very naive. I’m not blaming TV but yes it has an influence and I don’t know how much more direct ads can be when MTV during shows like Road Rules has condom commercials and yes teen kids watch MTV road rules more than older people

[TheCount]

They have burger king selling sponge bob square pants with good looking women with square butts doing the booty hustle for a kid’s meal. :laugh2:

Is it wrong that I love that commercial? I mean phone-book implants? Come on. :lmao2:

[DIAF]

You claimed abstinence working is a myth. Please explain how not having sex gets people pregnant.:confused:

More like kids aren't going to do it. Teenagers are gonna do the business, no matter what. Abstinence only goes so far with some of them, for the others you better be ready to hand out contraceptives and start educating them about "safe" sex.

[ConcordCowboy]

ugh condoms, like washing feet with socks on

she should be telling girls "a pill a day keeps the baby away, have you taken your pill today".

I've never worn one.

Never will now that I'm married.

Pregnancy isn't the only thing...STD's are pretty bad too.

Now your second part...that's the way I've always been. :D

[ConcordCowboy]

Because people do not abstain. They have never abstained (with any regularity). Biologically, they are not designed to abstain.

Abstinance as a concept, works perfectly. Throw in real people and the concept all too often becomes conception.

This just seems so simple to understand...yet...

[Doomsday101]

Is it wrong that I love that commercial? I mean phone-book implants? Come on. :lmao2:

No it is not wrong that you like it but are you planning on buying a kids meal? It is for kids a meal with toys in it.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

For the record, I waited until marriage, and I didn't get married until after graduate school.

that explains everything :D

[CanadianCowboysFan]

In the abstinence only programs do you teach them that oral sex is fine, mutual masturbation, or just solo masturbation for your partner as a fair trade off for no intercourse?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Great point. Abstinence only is a fairy tale.

However I differ about those who claim its the only way.

I don't have a lot of respect for someone who claims there is only 1 way despite evidence saying that way sucks and there being reasonable alternatives. That's just stubborn.



I understand this point but those people who are educating were addicts. Not talking about the gang members/criminals.

Just the alcoholics and addicts. For those people, there is no middle ground when it comes doing what they are advocating against. There is no social drinking, there is no having a beer with dinner. Those people either don't drink or they get smashed. The are against drinking because that is the only way for them.

The addicts too. Smoking pot every now and then wasn't an option. It was hardcore or nothing. I know its just a line from a movie but that scene in half baked where Dave Chapelle introduces himself in the NA meeting and Bob Saget goes after him is pretty fitting.

For the majority of the people at NA and AA meetings, their addictions were damn near self destructive. They had to stop.

Palin saying abstinence is the only way just doesn't have the same effect IMO. Aside from the fact that NA and AA members strive to never drink or use again while Palin is probably going to have sex again at some point, it just doesn't seem genuine.

If she didn't get knocked up, she'd still be doing it.

Addicts make the choice to stop. Sure, some are forced into the programs but the ones who are taking part in educating youth are there by choice and a desire to stop.


There is no middle ground for Bristol Palin either. It's not as if she can put the baby back. It's a life time sentance and the challenges associated with raising children, IMO, rival anything you can face in life. I don't see the difference between the two.

[Hoofbite]

There is no middle ground for Bristol Palin either. It's not as if she can put the baby back. It's a life time sentance and the challenges associated with raising children, IMO, rival anything you can face in life. I don't see the difference between the two.

I see that but she could have used other forms of contraception and been perfectly fine.

I guess I equate her preaching abstinence to someone who has been court ordered into rehab preaching the "just say no" line. Not so credible because without the court order or pregnancy they would have continued on their ways.

I'm not saying she is doing a stupid thing. She's free to say that all she wants and I giver her some credit for doing it but I think she would have made a much better face for the contraception message.

[ScipioCowboy]

that explains everything :D

Explains what? Why I don't assess someone's character based on their apparel?:D

[ScipioCowboy]

Who is glorifying sex among teens more than the teens themselves?

Do you watch television?

Have you seen any shows centered around teenagers, such as Friday Night Lights? Or teen movies such as American Pie?

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not holding these shows solely responsible for the proliferation of teen sex, and I'm certainly not suggesting they be censured. Ultimately, sex is a matter of individual choice. Your sexual practices and the consequences you reap from them are no one's fault but your own.

However, I lament that certain prominent elements within media are not more responsible in their portrayal of teen sex. Teens are so inundated with sex that abstinence seems abnormal.

[TheCount]

Do you watch television?

Have you seen any shows centered around teenagers, such as Friday Night Lights? Or teen movies such as American Pie?

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not holding these shows solely responsible for the proliferation of teen sex, and I'm certainly not suggesting they be censured. Ultimately, sex is a matter of individual choice. Your sexual practices and the consequences you reap from them are no one's fault but your own.

However, I lament that certain prominent elements within media are not more responsible in their portrayal of teen sex. Teens are so inundated with sex that abstinence seems abnormal.

So if we pretend teenagers don't engage in sex by not showing it on television, you think teenagers will stop having sex then?

And again, American Pie was rated R, no teenagers should have seen it without an adult. If you don't know that your child somehow snuck out to watch it, chances are you wouldn't know if they were out having sex anyway.

[ScipioCowboy]

So if we pretend teenagers don't engage in sex by not showing it on television, you think teenagers will stop having sex then?

I never said or implied this.

You seem to be arguing that advertising and media have no impact on teen behavior, and that there's never any variation in the percentage of teens having sex. Clearly, neither premise is true.

As VTA has already explained, if you accept the premise that advertising affects behavior, you must concede the possibility that such effects may not be limited to purchasing a product. They may, in fact, have a series of unintended consequences.

And again, American Pie was rated R, no teenagers should have seen it without an adult. If you don't know that your child somehow snuck out to watch it, chances are you wouldn't know if they were out having sex anyway.

I'm sorry, but this assertion is patently absurd. Teenagers see a lot of R-rated movies, and the issue is far more than just movies.

Once again, I'm not suggesting that anyone should be censured or that birth control should not be taught in schools. I'm merely lamenting the lack of responsibility in the media.

[the kid 05]

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/theremoteisland/2009/02/bristol-palin-baby-son.jpg

mifl is a bad word? just gotta get d-bag out of the way and move to alaska

[ABQCOWBOY]

I see that but she could have used other forms of contraception and been perfectly fine.

I guess I equate her preaching abstinence to someone who has been court ordered into rehab preaching the "just say no" line. Not so credible because without the court order or pregnancy they would have continued on their ways.

I'm not saying she is doing a stupid thing. She's free to say that all she wants and I giver her some credit for doing it but I think she would have made a much better face for the contraception message.

I think people might be forgetting what it's like to be 17 or 18. Think back to when you were that age. Could you have done the same kinds of things in her shoes? I don't know. I guess I just don't see the need to tear down the girl. She made a mistake, there is no doubt about that. If she had to do it all over again, I'm fairly certain she would do it another way. I don't pretend to understand the animosity towards this girl for saying what she is saying. I didn't understand it as I was watching it on TV these past few days either. She's an 18 year old kid with a baby, no father, trying to make her way. I can't imagine how scary that would have to be for a girl. Not that there aren't many out there in the world today in the same position because there are. I have two daughters of my own and I fear for them because I know kids are often not rational about these kinds of things. If it were my girls, I know I'd feel very badly for them. I don't see the harm in what she is doing. I wonder if her last name were not Palin, would she be viewed as harshly as she appears to be being viewed? She did a stupid thing but I can't see how what she's trying to do now is bad.

[Temo]

There is no middle ground for Bristol Palin either. It's not as if she can put the baby back. It's a life time sentance and the challenges associated with raising children, IMO, rival anything you can face in life. I don't see the difference between the two.

Having children=life sentence, gotcha :p:

JK. I'm 23 and not about to try to have kids anytime soon (or ever, maybe =/ ), but describing as a life time sentence is kinda funny, you have to admit :p

[TheCount]

I never said or implied this.

You seem to be arguing that advertising and media have no impact on teen behavior, and that there's never any variation in the percentage of teens having sex. Clearly, neither premise is true.

As VTA has already explained, if you accept the premise that advertising affects behavior, you must concede the possibility that such effects may not be limited to purchasing a product. They may, in fact, have a series of unintended consequences.

I never suggested advertising had no effect, I suggested that it was not an intentional affect and teenagers weren't being targeted into having teenage sex.

I also suggested that it's the roll of the family and parents to curb those unintentional effects, not the job of advertising to fix them.

I'm willing to admit advertising may have unintended consequences, are you willing to admit pollution may have some? ;)


I'm sorry, but this assertion is patently absurd. Teenagers see a lot of R-rated movies, and the issue is far more than just movies.

Once again, I'm not suggesting that anyone should be censured or that birth control should not be taught in schools. I'm merely lamenting the lack of responsibility in the media.

Absurd or not, the argument was not whether teenagers see R-rated movies, it was whether the movie was targeting teens, I'm not sure you read the entire discussion.

And again, I'll see it's not the media's job to teach responsibility. If actors playing teenagers happen to have sex as part of the story line of a television show, I just don't see how the message to teenagers is "You're abnormal if you don't do this."

I mean you brought up Friday Night Lights and the number of times I can remember seeing sex on that show between teenagers I can probably count on one hand and that's our of 3 seasons worth, not to mention that the consequences of the act was an important part of the story line regarding one of the characters where responsibility WAS in fact the message.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Just to throw an extra monkey wrench into the arguments.

Not all teen movies have actors that are older and playing roles of characters having sex.

On that 70's show the girl that played the spoiled girl was actually the youngest of the cast and really was underage at the start of the series.

In the movie Superbad, the guy who played McLovin was underage as well and during the scene where he is starting to have sex with one of the girls...his mother was actually on set to make sure nothing when wrong.

Just saying...Some actors portraying teens in movies, or shows, with sex...are actually teens.

Not really sure what it really has to do with Bristol Palin. Abstinence works if you practice it, problem is many do not practice it and she is a prime example of that.

[DIAF]

Just to throw an extra monkey wrench into the arguments.

Not all teen movies have actors that are older and playing roles of characters having sex.

On that 70's show the girl that played the spoiled girl was actually the youngest of the cast and really was underage at the start of the series.

In the movie Superbad, the guy who played McLovin was underage as well and during the scene where he is starting to have sex with one of the girls...his mother was actually on set to make sure nothing when wrong.

Just saying...Some actors portraying teens in movies, or shows, with sex...are actually teens.

Not really sure what it really has to do with Bristol Palin. Abstinence works if you practice it, problem is many do not practice it and she is a prime example of that.

BP sure does know a lot about underage sex. Just sayin'.

[BrAinPaiNt]

BP sure does know a lot about underage sex. Just sayin'.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/funny-pictures-angry-grey-cat-sulks.jpg

[ScipioCowboy]

I never suggested advertising had no effect, I suggested that it was not an intentional affect and teenagers weren't being targeted into having teenage sex.

I also suggested that it's the roll of the family and parents to curb those unintentional effects, not the job of advertising to fix them.

I'm willing to admit advertising may have unintended consequences, are you willing to admit pollution may have some? ;)

So, according to your reasoning, it's not my responsibility to limit my CO2 output or recycle. Rather, it's solely the responsibility of industry to create products that have no environmental impact.

I doubt you could would the above premise, and you would be justified in not doing so; once a person realizes that his actions are having certain negative consequences, he or she bears the responsibility of changing them, regardless of whether the consequences were intended or not.

If I realize I'm harming the environment by not recycling and I continue not recycling, I'm just as guilty as if my original intention was destroying the environment. This same principle is true for advertisers and media whose messages have unintended sexual consequences for youth...especially when their movies (such as American Pie) are directed at a largely teenage audience.

Absurd or not, the argument was not whether teenagers see R-rated movies, it was whether the movie was targeting teens, I'm not sure you read the entire discussion.

And again, I'll see it's not the media's job to teach responsibility. If actors playing teenagers happen to have sex as part of the story line of a television show, I just don't see how the message to teenagers is "You're abnormal if you don't do this."

I mean you brought up Friday Night Lights and the number of times I can remember seeing sex on that show between teenagers I can probably count on one hand and that's our of 3 seasons worth, not to mention that the consequences of the act was an important part of the story line regarding one of the characters where responsibility WAS in fact the message.

In Friday Night Lights, almost all of the main high school and teenage characters have had had sex -- Lyla, Riggins, Matt Serrason, Julie, Tyra, and Landry.

I can think of only one high school character in Friday Night Lights who hasn't had sex -- JD -- and he's a freshman who was added just last season.

In fact, it was implied that Lyla ended a relationship with one of her boyfriends because he wouldn't have sex with her.

What message do you think Friday Night Lights is sending when no character is capable of making it out of high school, much less into their 20s, without having sex?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Scip...just because you could not get any action as a young man, does not mean everybody else can not or does not.



;) :p:

[ScipioCowboy]

Scip...just because you could not get any action as a young man, does not mean everybody else can not or does not.



;) :p:

Oh, I could get it...if I wanted it. They were lined up outside Wal Mart.:D

[TheCount]

So, according to your reasoning, it's not my responsibility to limit my CO2 output or recycle. Rather, it's solely the responsibility of industry to create products that have no environmental impact.

I doubt you could would the above premise, and you would be justified in not doing so; once a person realizes that his actions are having certain negative consequences, he or she bears the responsibility of changing them, regardless of whether the consequences were intended or not.

If I realize I'm harming the environment by not recycling and I continue not recycling, I'm just as guilty as if my original intention was destroying the environment. This same principle is true for advertisers and media whose messages have unintended sexual consequences for youth...especially when their movies (such as American Pie) are directed at a largely teenage audience.



In Friday Night Lights, almost all of the main high school and teenage characters have had had sex -- Lyla, Riggins, Matt Serrason, Julie, Tyra, and Landry.

I can think of only one high school character in Friday Night Lights who hasn't had sex -- JD -- and he's a freshman who was added just last season.

In fact, it was implied that Lyla ended a relationship with one of her boyfriends because he wouldn't have sex with her.

What message do you think Friday Night Lights is sending when no character is capable of making it out of high school, much less into their 20s, without having sex?

How on earth does that glorify teenage sex? Is the meer fact that a show includes that as a part of the story line mean they are glorifying it? You've also conveniently forgotten other story lines where waiting to have sex and the consequences of sex were also brought up. The consequences of putting yourself in a dangerous situation with those older than you? To hear you tell it, all they do is have sex when in fact none of the characters are premiscuous and sex has always been used to further a story line, not as soft-core porn to sell the show.

This is obviously a pointless argument, you have your opinion and I have mine. You do seem to know the show pretty well though for someone who thinks it's a plague amongst the nations children.

[ScipioCowboy]

How on earth does that glorify teenage sex? Is the meer fact that a show includes that as a part of the story line mean they are glorifying it? You've also conveniently forgotten other story lines where waiting to have sex and the consequences of sex were also brought up. The consequences of putting yourself in a dangerous situation with those older than you? To hear you tell it, all they do is have sex when in fact none of the characters are premiscuous and sex has always been used to further a story line, not as soft-core porn to sell the show.

Hardly.

I'm merely commenting on an aspect of the show.

If the show were genuinely interested in encouraging teenagers to wait to have sex, why is it that not so much as one of the main characters is capable of getting out of high school before he or she has sex?

Whatever your perception of the storyline may be, it is negated by the actions of the characters.

Where's the balance? Where is the perfectly well-adjusted high school character who doesn't have sex?

The show glorifies teen sex because it presents teen abstinence as an abnormal behavior. If you truly want to be like everyone else, you need to have sex -- this is a message, intended or otherwise.

This is obviously a pointless argument, you have your opinion and I have mine. You do seem to know the show pretty well though for someone who thinks it's a plague amongst the nations children.

It's a catch-22. If I don't "know" the show, I'm accused of having insufficient knowledge of the subject matter to derive reliable conclusions. If I do "know" the show, I'm accused of watching it too much.

For the record, I never said or implied that Friday Night Lights was a "plague." I'm simply calling for more responsibility from the media in its portrayal of teen sex.

[Rogah]

More like kids aren't going to do it. Teenagers are gonna do the business, no matter what. Abstinence only goes so far with some of them, for the others you better be ready to hand out contraceptives and start educating them about "safe" sex.I see this argument quite frequently that "people are going to do X, no matter what" (where X equals marijuana, teen sex, booze, drugs, gamble, watch Eagles football, etc, etc) and I can't help but roll my eyes.

Yes, there are always going to be people doing X, no matter what. And there are always going to be people not doing X, no matter what. But there are always going to be those on the fence susceptible to being swayed in either direction depending on the stimuli.

So let's at least be honest enough to admit that the "stimuli" people face will have an impact on the choices some of them are making.

[TheCount]

Hardly.

I'm merely commenting on an aspect of the show.

If the show were genuinely interested in encouraging teenagers to wait to have sex, why is it that not so much as one of the main characters is capable of getting out of high school before he or she has sex?

Whatever your perception of the storyline may be, it is negated by the actions of the characters.

Where's the balance? Where is the perfectly well-adjusted high school character who doesn't have sex?

The show glorifies teen sex because it presents teen abstinence as an abnormal behavior. If you truly want to be like everyone else, you need to have sex -- this is a message, intended or otherwise.

Why would it be the job of the show to encourage teenagers to wait to have sex? What does that have to do with the core theme of the show?

The show is about drama not being well-adjusted, none of these characters live glamorous lives, each one is flawed. When the theme of the story is these kids trying to get out of the small town they live in and find their way and all you take away is that they are encouraging teen sex, you are obviously ignoring a lot.

You may want to discuss with your kid (if you have one) how Tyra started our as the promiscuous cheerleader and got herself together and tried her hardest despite coming from a pretty trashy family to be the first one to go to college and make something of her life when it would have been easier to stay and do nothing, how's that for a message to take away?

How about Jason losing everything and building himself back up, making a mistake and taking responsibility? Smash standing up for himself and his family, being respectful to his mother and watching him grow into a man? No? Well we can always go back to talking teenage sex I guess.

[Doomsday101]

I never suggested advertising had no effect, I suggested that it was not an intentional affect and teenagers weren't being targeted into having teenage sex.

I also suggested that it's the roll of the family and parents to curb those unintentional effects, not the job of advertising to fix them.

I'm willing to admit advertising may have unintended consequences, are you willing to admit pollution may have some? ;)




Absurd or not, the argument was not whether teenagers see R-rated movies, it was whether the movie was targeting teens, I'm not sure you read the entire discussion.

And again, I'll see it's not the media's job to teach responsibility. If actors playing teenagers happen to have sex as part of the story line of a television show, I just don't see how the message to teenagers is "You're abnormal if you don't do this."

I mean you brought up Friday Night Lights and the number of times I can remember seeing sex on that show between teenagers I can probably count on one hand and that's our of 3 seasons worth, not to mention that the consequences of the act was an important part of the story line regarding one of the characters where responsibility WAS in fact the message.

Only problem with the argument that it is up to the parents is movies, TV and ads do not give the parents a chance because they flood the air waves with questionable material. So continue to say it is not our responsiblity as an ad agentcy or movie or TV but when the parents are stacked aginst the odds they don't stand much of a chance.

[TheCount]

Only problem with the argument that it is up to the parents is movies, TV and ads do not give the parents a chance because they flood the air waves with questionable material. So continue to say it is not our responsiblity as an ad agentcy or movie or TV but when the parents are stacked aginst the odds they don't stand much of a chance.

My parents managed, you do what you can.

[vta]

There needs to be balance and there clearly is none.

The cards are stacked well in favor of commerce and not at all for the parents, short of tying the kid up and keeping him/her in the basement.

Advertising is incredibly intrusive and hard to get away from, be it commercials, telemarketers, every inch of floor space in every store, every other utterance out of the radio, billboards, vans, trucks, buses.

I'm all for personal responsibility of the individual, it's just too bad that principle does not apply to the advertisers.

We have a brazenly hypocritical society right now.
On one hand the mere utterance of a racial slur, sexually derogatory remark, and you can expect someone to be fired. Why? Because it can promote hate and intolerance. Really? So easily influenced???

Yet you can't get away from being sold gratuitous violence and sex at every turn, be it movies, games, perfumes, jewels, food, etc; and woe to the Puritan who complains; the cries of 'Censorship' and a sudden adherence to something 'American' is clarion. The tender vulnerabilities are miraculously transformed into sound minds able to differentiate between 'entertainment' and reality

[vta]

My parents managed, you do what you can.

Managed what?

[Doomsday101]

My parents managed, you do what you can.

Yes you do what you can but don't act like others should not share in the responsibility while putting out questionable material for the dollar without no concerns what so ever. I'm not for censorship but I do think Hollywood and those in the entertainment business should do a better job of policing themselfs. These actors and actresses love talking about how bad the world is and how bad the US is why don't they do more to help make things better instead of feeding off the BS they put out.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Only problem with the argument that it is up to the parents is movies, TV and ads do not give the parents a chance because they flood the air waves with questionable material. So continue to say it is not our responsiblity as an ad agentcy or movie or TV but when the parents are stacked aginst the odds they don't stand much of a chance.

This does not sound like personal resposibility to me...it sounds like outsourcing the lack of good parenting, making the TV and computer the baby sitter and then blaming the tv or computer when it goes wrong.

Kind of reminds me of all of those foolish parents trying to blame this music or that music for their sons or daughters killing themselves instead of looking into the mirror.

Most tv's or cable boxes today come with option to allow the parents to bar channels or shows from being played on the tv.

[vta]

This does not sound like personal resposibility to me...it sounds like outsourcing the lack of good parenting, making the TV and computer the baby sitter.

Most tv's or cable boxes today come with option to allow the parents to bar channels or shows from being played on the tv.

Are there options to allow parents to bar certain aspects in a public place? A mall, grocery store, drug store, bus kiosk? The bus itself? The side of the road?

The amount space afforded for advertising far exceeds a parents options.

[Dallas]

This does not sound like personal resposibility to me...it sounds like outsourcing the lack of good parenting, making the TV and computer the baby sitter and then blaming the tv or computer when it goes wrong.

Kind of reminds me of all of those foolish parents trying to blame this music or that music for their sons or daughters killing themselves instead of looking into the mirror.

Most tv's or cable boxes today come with option to allow the parents to bar channels or shows from being played on the tv.

How do you block the Sunday 1pm PenisMercials? :D

[BrAinPaiNt]

How do you block the Sunday 1pm PenisMercials? :D

Extended Sunday School? ;)

[Doomsday101]

This does not sound like personal resposibility to me...it sounds like outsourcing the lack of good parenting, making the TV and computer the baby sitter and then blaming the tv or computer when it goes wrong.

Kind of reminds me of all of those foolish parents trying to blame this music or that music for their sons or daughters killing themselves instead of looking into the mirror.

Most tv's or cable boxes today come with option to allow the parents to bar channels or shows from being played on the tv.

I'm talking about giving parents more options yes you could block out alot problem is it is a lot. I'm not for censorship I do think the industry has a responsibility to do a better job of policing themselfs not saying anyone should do it for them. I'm also not letting bad parents off the hook only give good parents a fighting chance. In the end the entertainment business does not have to do a damn thing but they only show there own hypocrisy as these actors and actress talk the talk and yet make money off of some of the BS they put out. As I said at the start the entertainment business has great influence in young peoples lives.

[Aikbach]

I'm tired of politics, wake me up when both parties implode and a rash of competent classical liberal/ libertarian minded leaders emerge.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm tired of politics, wake me up when both parties implode and a rash of competent classical liberal/ libertarian minded leaders emerge.

So you are saying you want to sleep forever?:p:

[TheCount]

Are there options to allow parents to bar certain aspects in a public place? A mall, grocery store, drug store, bus kiosk? The bus itself? The side of the road?

The amount space afforded for advertising far exceeds a parents options.

Yeah, it's called a condom.

Don't have children if you're scared that your child will have to face the real world and make decisions in that world.

[ScipioCowboy]

Why would it be the job of the show to encourage teenagers to wait to have sex? What does that have to do with the core theme of the show?

Why is it "the job of the show" to inundate us with teenagers having sex? If the "core theme" of the show cannot be explored without every single major high school character being sexually active, perhaps we should question the value and underlying nature of that theme.

There are ways of exploring sensitive issues such as teen sex while still showing balance and not marginalizing abstinence.

Consider Vladimir Nabokov's literary masterpiece Lolita -- quite possibly the best English prose every written. The book explores one of the most aberrant and revolting sexual practices, pedophilia, through the eyes of an unapologetic pedophile. Yet, it still manages to treat the issue in a worthy, balanced manner.

The show is about drama not being well-adjusted, none of these characters live glamorous lives, each one is flawed. When the theme of the story is these kids trying to get out of the small town they live in and find their way and all you take away is that they are encouraging teen sex, you are obviously ignoring a lot.

You may want to discuss with your kid (if you have one) how Tyra started our as the promiscuous cheerleader and got herself together and tried her hardest despite coming from a pretty trashy family to be the first one to go to college and make something of her life when it would have been easier to stay and do nothing, how's that for a message to take away?

How about Jason losing everything and building himself back up, making a mistake and taking responsibility? Smash standing up for himself and his family, being respectful to his mother and watching him grow into a man? No? Well we can always go back to talking teenage sex I guess.

You have a habit of responding to what you think people are saying rather than what they're actually saying.

No one has denied that Friday Night Lights explores issues other than sex. No one has denied that Friday Night Lights is a quality show even.

I'm simply pointing out the irresponsible and unbalanced manner in which it addresses sex among high school students. This portrayal of teen sex is not absolved from criticism simply because it contributes to the "core theme" of the show. That's a remarkably shallow way of treating the topic, and ignores the myriad of possible societal implications.

[vta]

Yeah, it's called a condom.

Don't have children if you're scared that your child will have to face the real world and make decisions in that world.

I have nothing to be afraid of, but thanks for trying to bring this down to below dirt level. Perhaps you should revisit your assertion that your parents 'managed', eh? You're failing on so many levels.

[SultanOfSix]

Why would it be the job of the show to encourage teenagers to wait to have sex? What does that have to do with the core theme of the show?

The show is about drama not being well-adjusted, none of these characters live glamorous lives, each one is flawed. When the theme of the story is these kids trying to get out of the small town they live in and find their way and all you take away is that they are encouraging teen sex, you are obviously ignoring a lot.

Well, I haven't seen the show, and so I can't weigh in on the notion that it glorifies pre-marital sex, but the mere fact that it is prominent and common in show, psychologically and subliminally suggests or even inculcates in the mind of the viewers that it is "normal". Now, whether this is due to the show reflecting society, or certain elements in the media promoting a certain lifestyle, that is a chicken and the egg thing. I just know that change is gradual, and it can be good, or it can be deceptively good, but it is in fact bad. As Malcolm X once said, "I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he's wrong, than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil." These changes need to be intellectually assessed and not merely promoted because certain elements in the media have more power. Now, this becomes a question of ethics so I'm not going to start expressing my opinion on what is good or what is bad. The point is, the media has an effect whether one likes it or not, and if it is being watched by millions of people every week, it is going carry its message - whatever that may be - into the general populace. Some people have are smart enough and have the time to critically review things. Others are just working on living.

[vta]

As Malcolm X once said, "I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he's wrong, than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil."

Very well put and so true.

[TheCount]

I have nothing to be afraid of, but thanks for trying to bring this down to below dirt level. Perhaps you should revisit your assertion that your parents 'managed', eh? You're failing on so many levels.

Below dirt? What are you even talking about.

Well, I haven't seen the show, and so I can't weigh in on the notion that it glorifies pre-marital sex, but the mere fact that it is prominent and common in show, psychologically and subliminally suggests or even inculcates in the mind of the viewers that it is "normal". Now, whether this is due to the show reflecting society, or certain elements in the media promoting a certain lifestyle, that is a chicken and the egg thing. I just know that change is gradual, and it can be good, or it can be deceptively good, but it is in fact bad. As Malcolm X once said, "I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he's wrong, than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil." These changes need to be intellectually assessed and not merely promoted because certain elements in the media have more power. Now, this becomes a question of ethics so I'm not going to start expressing my opinion on what is good or what is bad. The point is, the media has an effect whether one likes it or not, and if it is being watched by millions of people every week, its going carry it message - whatever that may be - into the general populace.

That's just the thing, it happens on the show but it is far from prominent or common on the show. The show is three years in at this point, there are plenty of other more prominent aspects to the show than sex.

My assertion throughout this has NEVER been that the media doesn't have an effect on society. The original conversation was whether teenagers were being TARGETED, which implies intent.

[vta]

Below dirt? What are you even talking about.

Your inability to form a reasoned response based on something better than poorly aimed potshots.

[SultanOfSix]

My assertion throughout this has NEVER been that the media doesn't have an effect on society. The original conversation was whether teenagers were being TARGETED, which implies intent.

Well, obviously its a show about teenagers in a particular environment, so it does target teenagers. What the intent of the promotion is more difficult to assess, and I can't really form an opinion on what message the show's creators are trying to spread because i haven't seen enough of it.

[TheCount]

Your inability to form a reasoned response based on something better than poorly aimed potshots.

What potshot exactly? I don't even know who you are. My condom comment was meant as a joke, don't make it out to be more than it was. I don't know anything about you to even consider insulting you, really.

Well, obviously its a show about teenagers in a particular environment, so it does target teenagers. What the intent of the promotion is more difficult to assess, and I can't really form an opinion on what message the show's creators are trying to spread because i haven't seen enough of it.

If you've read the book or seen the movie you know the basic gist, it's about kids and adults growing up in a small town in Texas where football is everything. The sort of place where people that played for the team 40 years ago and never got out of the town still go to the games and if you can't make it in football, you never leave.

[vta]

What potshot exactly? I don't even know who you are. My condom comment was meant as a joke, don't make it out to be more than it was. I don't know anything about you to even consider insulting you, really.

None of us know who the other is on here, that doesn't come into the equation really. But if you say it's a joke, it's a joke; I'll take you at your word.

[arglebargle]

Some interesting arguements in this thread so far. Made me go and look up some info.

•By age 15, only 13% of teens have ever had sex. However, by the time they reach age 19, seven in 10 teens have engaged in sexual intercourse.

•A sexually active teen who does not use contraceptives has a 90% chance of becoming pregnant within a year.

•At most recent sex, 83% of teen females and 91% of teen males used contraceptives. These proportions represent a marked improvement since 1995, when only 71% of teen females and 82% of teen males had used a contraceptive method at last sex.


Anyway, here are a bunch of different links to reports on this subject, so if you want to read up on it you can. In an aside, I worked for one of the groups that did the polling that is often referred to in these reports. I can report that they were very professional and thorough. I remember that they wanted really 'un-intimidating' people working on the project, and they came up with a method to get the information that was much more private than the usual ones.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ATSRH.html

http://www.childtrends.org/Files/Child-Trends-2008_08_13_FS_TeenSexQuiz.pdf

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-10-18-teens-sex_x.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/15/AR2005091500915.html

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/sexual-reproductive/2008/09/03/on-teens-and-sex-wheres-the-love.html

[ABQCOWBOY]

Having children=life sentence, gotcha :p:

JK. I'm 23 and not about to try to have kids anytime soon (or ever, maybe =/ ), but describing as a life time sentence is kinda funny, you have to admit :p

My Son posts on this board. I am not affraid for him to read what I have posted. It is a life time sentance. They are always your children and you are always there parents. That is how it works.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/theremoteisland/2009/02/bristol-palin-baby-son.jpg

mifl is a bad word? just gotta get d-bag out of the way and move to alaska

technically, she is too young to be a ****, she is a yummy mummy

[Hoofbite]

This does not sound like personal resposibility to me...it sounds like outsourcing the lack of good parenting, making the TV and computer the baby sitter and then blaming the tv or computer when it goes wrong.

Kind of reminds me of all of those foolish parents trying to blame this music or that music for their sons or daughters killing themselves instead of looking into the mirror.

Most tv's or cable boxes today come with option to allow the parents to bar channels or shows from being played on the tv.
:hammer:

Couldn't agree more. If parents don't take part in teaching their kids, its their own fault. Avoiding telling your kids something because you think it is too sensitive of a subject is being ignorant. Be it sex, alcohol, drugs or whatever topic there is, anyone who thinks their kid is too young to understand the topic and proceeds to provide that child with unrestricted access to television and the internet is failing.

If not through the parents then kids will find out through some other source. Personally, I don't how any parent could actively decide to avoid topics like this.

Seems pretty obvious.

[Hoofbite]

My Son posts on this board. I am not affraid for him to read what I have posted. It is a life time sentance. They are always your children and you are always there parents. That is how it works.
You make it sound like punishment.....:laugh2:

"ABQ, for you devious acts against society I hereby sentance you to a lifetime of parenting".

[masomenos]

You make it sound like punishment.....:laugh2:

"ABQ, for you devious acts against society I hereby sentance you to a lifetime of parenting".

Well, in all fairness, Obama did say that having a baby could be a punishment.

eNzmly28Bmg

:o:

[Hoofbite]

Well, in all fairness, Obama did say that having a baby could be a punishment.

eNzmly28Bmg

:o:

I see what you did there........

[ABQCOWBOY]

You make it sound like punishment.....:laugh2:

"ABQ, for you devious acts against society I hereby sentance you to a lifetime of parenting".

If this is what you hear when you read my posts, so be it. I am secure in what I've said and for Bristol Palin, I think it is accurate.

[TheCount]

If this is what you hear when you read my posts, so be it. I am secure in what I've said and for Bristol Palin, I think it is accurate.

I think he was just joking with you since you used the word "sentence", as in a jail sentence.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think he was just joking with you since you used the word "sentence", as in a jail sentence.

You are probably correct but in the conversation central to the thread, I think it might be more accurate then we know. Bristol Palin is probably more fortunate then the huge majority of unwed mothers out there. However, if you look at this from the perspective of the average unwed teen mother, I'm pretty sure that it probably does seem like a sentence many times. That's not something to be ashamed of IMO. It's simply part of the overall problem. At age 17 or what have you, most of those young Mothers spend a great deal of time realizing what they are missing. Many are probably struggling to have any sort of life, outside of the responsibilities of the child. I'm certain many regret the situations all together. It doesn't make them bad Mothers. It simply means that they are coming to the realizations of exactly what it means to be an unwed, single teenage mother. That's not an easy thing to be sure. I imagine that this feeling is probably even more intensified when that Mother may be in the unfortunate position of having to much month at the end of the money.

It has to feel this way, to a certain extent. It's only natural IMO. That's really all I'm saying.