Random Ridiculousness: White College Student Considers Himself African-American

[WoodysGirl]

I really didn't know where to post this, but I figured this was as good a place as any.

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http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/whiteboyafricanamerican.jpg (http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/whiteboyafricanamerican.jpg)



We know what you’re thinkin’. Not another Justin Timberlake (http://bossip.com/96822/jessica-biel-jealous-of-swirling-in-ciara-and-justin-video/), Jon B (http://bossip.com/103448/blast-from-the-past-wednesday-jon-b-featuring-sanaa-lathan-dont-say/), Eminem (http://http//bossip.com/111008/eminem-to-nick-cannon-carey-i-already-peed-on-mariah-ha/) wanna-be. Pop the top for moreSomeone should send this dude the “Perks and Benefits of Being White” manual.“A former New Jersey Medical School student, who described his ethnic background as “white, African-American,” is suing the school claiming that he had been racially discriminated against, according to the Associated Press. Paulo Serodio, a student at The University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, is Caucasian but told fellow classmates and school employees that since he was born in Mozambique, he identifies himself as “white, African-American.” At first his peers recommended that he stop but, soon after, he said he discovered fliers hung up around campus, mocking him. Plus, he was assaulted and his car was vandalized. “He technically is African-American though.
Source (http://dimewars.com/Blog/White-Man-wants-to-be-recognized-as-an-African-American.aspx?BlogID=ff115011-52b1-4097-acc6-8196943c657e)

[DIAF]

“A former New Jersey Medical School student

Ok, now this makes sense.

[DFWJC]

I really didn't know where to post this, but I figured this was as good a place as any.

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http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/whiteboyafricanamerican.jpg (http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/whiteboyafricanamerican.jpg)




We know what you’re thinkin’. Not another Justin Timberlake (http://bossip.com/96822/jessica-biel-jealous-of-swirling-in-ciara-and-justin-video/), Jon B (http://bossip.com/103448/blast-from-the-past-wednesday-jon-b-featuring-sanaa-lathan-dont-say/), Eminem (http://http//bossip.com/111008/eminem-to-nick-cannon-carey-i-already-peed-on-mariah-ha/) wanna-be. Pop the top for moreSomeone should send this dude the “Perks and Benefits of Being White” manual.“A former New Jersey Medical School student, who described his ethnic background as “white, African-American,” is suing the school claiming that he had been racially discriminated against, according to the Associated Press. Paulo Serodio, a student at The University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, is Caucasian but told fellow classmates and school employees that since he was born in Mozambique, he identifies himself as “white, African-American.” At first his peers recommended that he stop but, soon after, he said he discovered fliers hung up around campus, mocking him. Plus, he was assaulted and his car was vandalized. “He technically is African-American though.
Source (http://dimewars.com/Blog/White-Man-wants-to-be-recognized-as-an-African-American.aspx?BlogID=ff115011-52b1-4097-acc6-8196943c657e)

Legally, he would gain more benefits being classified a minority. :)

[WoodysGirl]

Legally, he would gain more benefits being classified a minority. :)
If you say so. I'm still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.

[PosterChild]

What is wrong with humans? *shakes head and just walks away*

[DFWJC]

If you say so. I'm still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.
:laugh1: me too

[ConcordCowboy]

Micheal has tried the opposite.

http://www.gemzies.com/upload/page_thumb/michael_jackson_before_and_after.jpg

[trickblue]

If you say so. I'm still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.

Well... you have bp... now just the 40 acres...

[TheCount]

I don't understand, is that actually a picture of him or are they mocking him?

His claim seems legit to me, he's not claiming to be black, he's claiming to be an African-American, which is true.

[DIAF]

I don't understand, is that actually a picture of him or are they mocking him?

His claim seems legit to me, he's not claiming to be black, he's claiming to be an African-American, which is true.

I think its just a random funny picture.

[Hoofbite]

Sucks for him that he pretty much got kicked out of school for it but this guy should have found a better way to describe it if he really felt the need to.

Maybe something along the lines of:

"African-American of Caucasian descent"

[Hoofbite]

I don't understand, is that actually a picture of him or are they mocking him?

His claim seems legit to me, he's not claiming to be black, he's claiming to be an African-American, which is true.

Pretty sure that isn't him.

I found this article on ABC and the dude is supposedly like 45

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7567291

[Jon88]

If you say so. I'm still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.

I didn't know that was promised to you.

[TheCount]

Pretty sure that isn't him.

I found this article on ABC and the dude is supposedly like 45

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7567291

Yeah I mean from that article I don't see why it's so comical, the thug life picture completely skews the article.

The man says he's a "White, African-American" and he was born and raised in Africa, I guess I just don't see the humor in the story itself, unless he's overstating the damages.

[WoodysGirl]

I don't understand, is that actually a picture of him or are they mocking him?

His claim seems legit to me, he's not claiming to be black, he's claiming to be an African-American, which is true.Just a random pic...

The guy has a legit claim. I think it shows a level of ignorance of certain people in America as it pertains to their knowledge of the world.

I didn't know that was promised to you.You didn't know? Thought everyone knew. Your bad.

[Jon88]

Just a random pic...

The guy has a legit claim. I think it shows a level of ignorance of certain people in America as it pertains to their knowledge of the world.

You didn't know? Thought everyone knew. Your bad.


Everyone knew that you were promised 40 acres and a mule? I doubt that.

[PosterChild]

I didn't bother to read the article till now and went the source. Of course he's technically correct if we insist on hyphenated identities.

Still a funny picture above.

[WoodysGirl]

Everyone knew that you were promised 40 acres and a mule? I doubt that.
Everyone except you...

I can't help that you didn't know. Since you do now, you're now in the loop.

[Jon88]

Everyone except you...

I can't help that you didn't know. Since you do now, you're now in the loop.

Sounds great.

[Danny White]

Just a random pic...

The guy has a legit claim. I think it shows a level of ignorance of certain people in America as it pertains to their knowledge of the world.

You didn't know? Thought everyone knew. Your bad.

One of my best friends growing up has a white mother and a black father (his father was actually first generation African)... my friend himself is slightly light-skinned, but appearance-wise would be considered by anyone who met him to be "black" or "African-American" etc.

He then married a white woman and has had two children, one of which is so absolutely, completely white it's hard to imagine that he's the father (and before you joke that he may not be, he has genetically verified that he is in fact her father).

Anyway, this girl is 1/4 black, and by all rights should be able to state that she's African-American... but I guarantee you that she'll run in to this very same kind of flak growing up, going to college, etc if she tries to state that. Beyond even talking about affirmative action or anything like that, what happens if she tries to join the "Black Student Union" or some group like that?

It's just strange that in this day-and-age, with the melting pot we have that we're still defining people by their color.

[WoodysGirl]

One of my best friends growing up has a white mother and a black father (his father was actually first generation African)... my friend himself is slightly light-skinned, but appearance-wise would be considered by anyone who met him to be "black" or "African-American" etc.

He then married a white woman and has had two children, one of which is so absolutely, completely white it's hard to imagine that he's the father (and before you joke that he may not be, he has genetically verified that he is in fact her father).

Anyway, this girl is 1/4 black, and by all rights should be able to state that she's African-American... but I guarantee you that she'll run in to this very same kind of flak growing up, going to college, etc if she tries to state that. Beyond even talking about affirmative action or anything like that, what happens if she tries to join the "Black Student Union" or some group like that?

It's just strange that in this day-and-age, with the melting pot we have that we're still defining people by their color.I've read of this happening before.

I remember reading Victoria Rowell (actress) is biracial. I'm not totally clear on it all, but I think her father is white. She has no relationship with him. Anyway she had a child by a white man and her oldest daughter looks just like you describe your friend's daughter.

I remember reading about how she'd had an incident to where someone thought she had kidnapped her own daughter.

http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/warner_brothers/the_polar_express/victoria_rowell/polarpreg2.jpg

Edit: I don't see it being an issue if your friend's daughter wanted to join an organization. It's a matter of proving it though. I don't know why people would lie, but you have some who do.

I have a friend whose heritage isn't really clear. Story too long to really go into depth about it. However, she's one of the best people to have as a friend.

[DFWJC]

It's just strange that in this day-and-age, with the melting pot we have that we're still defining people by their color.

That's the bottom line. Why should it matter at this point? Why do they even allow a box to check what the heck someone's race is anyway? We should be past that at this point legally and socially.

I'm not saying be blind and I'm not saying people have natural biases....but I am saying distinquishing anyone by race does nothing but swing the pendelum of racism. Stop pushing it one way or the other and it will finally settle on it's own. Keep giving or taking away rights based on race and it will keep swinging.

[DFWJC]

Another thing that has gotten old is the inherently racist idea that if someone has any minority (at least for now minority in the USA) blood, they they are considered to be that race. Take Tiger Woods for example...why is he considered to be black...or even African Amercian? The whole idea seems ludicrous.

[vta]

Does he really have a legit claim to say that? Does the fact that John McCain was born in Panama make him Panamanian? Did being born in Switzerland make my Italian/Spanish wife Swiss? Not at all.

This is guy is of Portuguese descent, not Mozambican.

[Hoofbite]

Another thing that has gotten old is the inherently racist idea that if someone has any minority (at least for now minority in the USA) blood, they they are considered to be that race. Take Tiger Woods for example...why is he considered to be black...or even African Amercian? The whole idea seems ludicrous.

what?

[Hoofbite]

That's the bottom line. Why should it matter at this point? Why do they even allow a box to check what the heck someone's race is anyway? We should be past that at this point legally and socially.

I'm not saying be blind and I'm not saying people have natural biases....but I am saying distinquishing anyone by race does nothing but swing the pendelum of racism. Stop pushing it one way or the other and it will finally settle on it's own. Keep giving or taking away rights based on race and it will keep swinging.

Theres nothing wrong with distinguishing people based on their ethnic background. Saying someone is one race or the other is not disparaging in any way.

The problems arise when people DO treat people differently based on those categorizations.

Identifying people based on their race does not perpetuate racism. Treating people like **** in one way or another based on their race does.

[VietCowboy]

There are plenty of examples of students during applications to claim a long-lost ancestor of minority descent (of particular notice is Native American) when they no longer have any contact with those roots. A lot of schools try to have a diverse cohort, and that generally means when they ask for ethnicity/race, the person would be able to bring to that cohort a view from that background. Furthermore, while not always true, a lot of times, the students will be more likely to cater to the needs of their ethnic/racial groups than someone from a different cultural background.

Claiming you are of so-and-so background b/c your great-great-great grandmother may be so-and-so in order to get an edge in admissions is deceitful.

[masomenos]

Does he really have a legit claim to say that? Does the fact that John McCain was born in Panama make him Panamanian? Did being born in Switzerland make my Italian/Spanish wife Swiss? Not at all.

This is guy is of Portuguese descent, not Mozambican.

It absolutely does, he shouldn't have been allowed to run for President.

[ThaBigP]

I don't understand, is that actually a picture of him or are they mocking him?

His claim seems legit to me, he's not claiming to be black, he's claiming to be an African-American, which is true.

Count (no pun intended) me on your side of the court.

Ahem...and please allow me to retort to the PC idiocy...and this is directed at nobody in particular, by the way:

This is nothing more than PC infantileness blowing up in the infants' faces. African-American simply means an American of African decent...Please for the love of God and all that is holy (using that phrase a lot lately...heh) point to the portion of the phrase African-American that indicates race....

My God folks, have we actually become this damn stupid as a people? If so, the Republic is doomed for sure. This reminds me of the person who publicly referred to an African (born, raised, lived all their lives) as an African-American-African to distinguish them from white Africans. Ethnocentricity, meet your cousin, nationalcentricity (is that even a word? It should be).

More stupidity...it now appears that not all Asians are actually equal. Or entitled to be called Asian. Only Orientals are allow.....wait, can't use that word in the US anymore. For some unexplainable reason, a word that literally means "eastern" is now racist. The opposite, Occidental, meaning "western", is OK and non-racist. We even have an Occidental College. Try imagining the oppose for a moment that doesn't result in catcals of RACIST! All of this makes perfect sense. Somehow. Anywho...Asians are now only those from the Far East, whereas Siberian Russians, Indians, Pakistanis and the like had to find new words to write on sticky notes to place upon their foreheads.

Seriously. I've lost just about any pretense of patience with the idiocy and stupidity of our modern culture. Hyperventilating obsession with the precise taxonomy of hyphenated race-nationalism labels out of one side of our mouths, while *****ing out of the other side to shout as loud as we can that we can't stand labels.

Chinaman = RACIST!
Irishman = just fine.
Oriental = HATEMONGER!
Occidental = what's the big deal
Asian = can't be from certain parts of Asia anymore, as the word is now reserved for others.
Mexican = starting to be considered a racist word as well in some quarters. Newsflash...it's a nationality.

The list goes on and on...

And for the record, American means somebody who is from the land mass stretching from Greenland to Tierra del Fuego. So, that African-American-Irish-Asian-Burmese-Caucasian-Ukranian just might be from Argentina for all we know. And we don't know. Because we've become a collection of idiots.

And the darndest thing of all, from my perspective? All of this PC wordsmithing amounts to one single thing...treating skin that is anything other than lilly-white as some type of handicap, never to be mentioned in polite conversation. Something to be utterly ashamed of. Height, eye, and hair color are fair game. For some reason. So every generation, when "that" word becomes associated with "that" skin color in the public's mind, we must hustle to change the language to something new. The old word becomes "RACIST!" and the new word "enlightened" and "compassionate". That lasts for but one generation, then the cycle resumes. Sorry folks, but that hacks me off something fierce, and is why there is so much incredulousness in this reply.

And just so everybody is clear, I'm not even talking about slang words invented specifically to incite. The words I've used, and are refering to, are regular-old words with regular-old meanings that have been deemed by the PC crowd to be suddenly (and with little rational explanation) as racist, bigoted, you name it.

[Temo]

Does he really have a legit claim to say that? Does the fact that John McCain was born in Panama make him Panamanian? Did being born in Switzerland make my Italian/Spanish wife Swiss? Not at all.

This is guy is of Portuguese descent, not Mozambican.

FTA: "Serodio said he is a third-generation African of Portuguese ethnicity whose great-grandfather emigrated to Mozambique. He came to the U.S. in 1984 after being accepted at New York University."

If he's 3rd generation African, then he's got more claim to being African-American than some blacks in America.

[Temo]

More stupidity...it now appears that not all Asians are actually equal. Or entitled to be called Asian. Only Orientals are allow.....wait, can't use that word in the US anymore. For some unexplainable reason, a word that literally means "eastern" is now racist. The opposite, Occidental, meaning "western", is OK and non-racist. We even have an Occidental College. Try imagining the oppose for a moment that doesn't result in catcals of RACIST! All of this makes perfect sense. Somehow. Anywho...Asians are now only those from the Far East, whereas Siberian Russians, Indians, Pakistanis and the like had to find new words to write on sticky notes to place upon their foreheads.

Chinaman = RACIST!
Irishman = just fine.
Oriental = HATEMONGER!
Occidental = what's the big deal
Asian = can't be from certain parts of Asia anymore, as the word is now reserved for others.
Mexican = starting to be considered a racist word as well in some quarters. Newsflash...it's a nationality.


You can't use Chinaman without being insulting because there's a perfectly good work to use for someone from China-- Chinese. Chinaman has been used as a derogatory term before to refer to Chinese people, and has that connotation. I have a ton of Asian friends and I use the term "Chinaman" jokingly with them all the time, but it's always done realizing that the connotation is bad and cannot be used in proper company.

I'm of Indian decent and have no problem being called Asian, even though that may confuse people who expect someone less dark.

I've never heard of anyone hating being called Mexican if they were Mexican.

[theogt]

If you say so. I'm still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule.

I didn't know that was promised to you.

You didn't know? Thought everyone knew. Your bad.

Everyone knew that you were promised 40 acres and a mule? I doubt that.

Everyone except you...

I can't help that you didn't know. Since you do now, you're now in the loop.:laugh1:

[Temo]

:laugh1:

Ya I enjoyed that too. WG got the best of that one :bow:

[ThaBigP]

You can't use Chinaman without being insulting because there's a perfectly good work to use for someone from China-- Chinese. Chinaman has been used as a derogatory term before to refer to Chinese people, and has that connotation. I have a ton of Asian friends and I use the term "Chinaman" jokingly with them all the time, but it's always done realizing that the connotation is bad and cannot be used in proper company.

I'm of Indian decent and have no problem being called Asian, even though that may confuse people who expect someone less dark.

I've never heard of anyone hating being called Mexican if they were Mexican.

I am interested in forcing a serious, honest debate on this.

So....OK, "Chinaman" is derogatory in part because there is a perfect workaround, "Chinese". How about "Irish" as opposed to "Irishman"? Or, "French" as opposed to "Frenchman", or "English" as opposed to "Englishman"? In none of the other examples is adding "man" to the end of the word considered perjorative.

In other words...if you insist that "Chinaman" or any of the other common words I used as examples are perjorative, I demand to know why. Explain. Do not simply state "well, pop culture tells me so". And please do not take this as me jumping down your throat - this is not directed at anybody in particular, but rather PC pop-culture in general. I simply think it is about time that the majority of people in the US stand up and demand to know why we are having strings pulled like so many puppets. On a side note, the "Oriental" social faux pas, along with many of the others I mentioned, are only true in the US. In Europe and elsewhere, including England (sharing our native tounge, so no language barrier excuses), to refer to an East Asian as "Oriental" is no more outrageous than referring to somebody as a Welshman.

And another honest question...why is it that only people of color must come up with new words or phrases to describe themselves every generation in the US? Somebody please riddle me that.

As for the Mexicans hating being called Mexican, I did not say it was Mexicans who hated it. No Mexican I know hates that word, since they are, after all, Mexican. It comes from other quarters. All of this seems to me to come from other quarters.

I remember a day in high school debate when the issue started to drift towards "what do 'black' people want to be called", pressed by a couple of the other students. They honestly wanted to know what our teacher prefered to be called. Nothing vicious meant by them at all. And our teacher was reluctant to tread on that issue. One student said "Come on, really, what do you prefer to be called"? That's when I stood up and said "Aaron" (his name, obviously). THAT is the point of all of this from me. We spend so much time and energy waffling over this trendy catch-phrase for anybody with darker-than-lilly-white-skin that we miss the real point...we are all who we are, we all have names...hair color...hair type...eye color...eye shape...lip shape...nose shape....melanin content in our dermis...

BUT
FOR
GOD'S
SAKE
CAN
WE
JUST
GET
OVER
OURSELVES
FOR
JUST
ONE
MOMENT!

Edit: Again, Temo....any anger you see in my posts on this issue are for nobody here in particular. I simply cannot tell you or anybody else how absolutely through I am with this crap we call pop-culture and political correctness. It simply seems to me to be a means of breaking us all apart into pieces. Pieces that can be reassembled later in the shapes of somebody else's choosing. And in the end, we may not like the shapes they choose. That, of course, is merely echoing "1984", where Orwell brilliantly deconstructed the totalitarian mindset. To control people, you must first break them down and break them apart from each other. No association is allowed to stand but the servant (citizen) to their master (state).

[ThaBigP]

For the record...yes, I see that I took what was supposed to be a light-hearted and humorous thread down some heavy-handed trail. On the bright side, I'll be working my butt off this weekend and a little while thereafter, so you can rest assured I'll leave you in peace to ponder, poo-poo, or dismiss my replies as you see fit.

To be honest, I see some real difficult days ahead for us, perhaps dangerous days. I know my history. I see it being repeated. When the chips start falling, all we're going to have to cling to is one another and our common principles of human liberty and decency. I promise you if or when that day comes, race isn't going to matter, nor any cutesy pop-culture phrases we've hatched to describe and divide one another.

With that, everybody have a good weekend.

[masomenos]

To be honest, I see some real difficult days ahead for us, perhaps dangerous days. I know my history. I see it being repeated. When the chips start falling, all we're going to have to cling to is one another and our common principles of human liberty and decency. I promise you if or when that day comes, race isn't going to matter, nor any cutesy pop-culture phrases we've hatched to describe and divide one another.

With that, everybody have a good weekend.

I understand that you may not read this, due to your long weekend, but I'll respond anyway. Race, religion, class, it always matters; there's no event that unifies everyone against a common foe. When WWII came to our shores, we rounded up Japanese-Americans. After 9/11, people of Middle Eastern descent were targeted in hate crimes. When the chips start falling, the majority clings together by finding a common enemy in a minority. That's what history teaches us.

[tyke1doe]

Micheal has tried the opposite.

http://www.gemzies.com/upload/page_thumb/michael_jackson_before_and_after.jpg

Dat boy is siriusly messed up. ;)

[Temo]

Edit: Again, Temo....any anger you see in my posts on this issue are for nobody here in particular. I simply cannot tell you or anybody else how absolutely through I am with this crap we call pop-culture and political correctness. It simply seems to me to be a means of breaking us all apart into pieces. Pieces that can be reassembled later in the shapes of somebody else's choosing. And in the end, we may not like the shapes they choose. That, of course, is merely echoing "1984", where Orwell brilliantly deconstructed the totalitarian mindset. To control people, you must first break them down and break them apart from each other. No association is allowed to stand but the servant (citizen) to their master (state).

I don't mind discussing it, you don't have to explain to me that you're not being personal :D

But yea, I don't know if Irishman, Englishman, Frenchman has ever been used derogatorily, like Chinaman has been. And besides, people do use the more much more common "Irish", "English", and "French" when talking about people from those places, much as using "Chinaman" would less 'normal' than using "Chinaman".

But more to the point, words carry the significance that culture gives them, so I don't know that you can explicitly say you don't care what cultural norms are applicable.

Either way, I'm not sure that Chinaman is really all that bad of a word, but I can't pretend that it doesn't have a negative connotation.

[ShiningStar]

I don't mind discussing it, you don't have to explain to me that you're not being personal :D

But yea, I don't know if Irishman, Englishman, Frenchman has ever been used derogatorily, like Chinaman has been. And besides, people do use the more much more common "Irish", "English", and "French" when talking about people from those places, much as using "Chinaman" would less 'normal' than using "Chinaman".

But more to the point, words carry the significance that culture gives them, so I don't know that you can explicitly say you don't care what cultural norms are applicable.

Either way, I'm not sure that Chinaman is really all that bad of a word, but I can't pretend that it doesn't have a negative connotation.


Where has Chinaman been derogative? I have never heard that? Can you give me a for example or somewhere in history.

[arglebargle]

Where has Chinaman been derogative? I have never heard that? Can you give me a for example or somewhere in history.

For what its worth, here is the heading from Wiki:


"Chinaman is a term that refers to a Chinese man. Not defined as offensive by older dictionaries,[1][2] its use is nowadays discouraged by Asian American organizations and others,[3][4][5][6] and considered offensive by modern dictionaries. The term has been used without stated offensive intent,[3][6] and has also been used as a self-referential archetype by authors and artists of Asian descent."

Though there was also this little bit of old Americana there as well:

(In 1922) .... Washington's attorney general, in his argument, stated that Japanese people could not fit into American society because assimilation was not possible for "the Negro, the Indian and the Chinaman"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman


While useage can make innocuous words into fighting verbiage, it seems like chinaman is kinda low on the scale.

[ShiningStar]

For what its worth, here is the heading from Wiki:


"Chinaman is a term that refers to a Chinese man. Not defined as offensive by older dictionaries,[1][2] its use is nowadays discouraged by Asian American organizations and others,[3][4][5][6] and considered offensive by modern dictionaries. The term has been used without stated offensive intent,[3][6] and has also been used as a self-referential archetype by authors and artists of Asian descent."

Though there was also this little bit of old Americana there as well:

(In 1922) .... Washington's attorney general, in his argument, stated that Japanese people could not fit into American society because assimilation was not possible for "the Negro, the Indian and the Chinaman"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman


While useage can make innocuous words into fighting verbiage, it seems like chinaman is kinda low on the scale.


So who made it offensive, where was the meeting held, just being told its derogative doesnt mean it is. Why is that just because somewhere we're told or read it, its offensive.


Just another way to make sure we dont say anything to anyone in hopes of not offending them.

[vta]

So who made it offensive, where was the meeting held, just being told its derogative doesnt mean it is. Why is that just because somewhere we're told or read it, its offensive.


Just another way to make sure we dont say anything to anyone in hopes of not offending them.

A bunch of insecure saps... :laugh2:
People looking too hard for something to legitimize their existence.

[iceberg]

For what its worth, here is the heading from Wiki:

"Chinaman is a term that refers to a Chinese man. Not defined as offensive by older dictionaries,[1][2] its use is nowadays discouraged by Asian American organizations and others,[3][4][5][6] and considered offensive by modern dictionaries. The term has been used without stated offensive intent,[3][6] and has also been used as a self-referential archetype by authors and artists of Asian descent."

Though there was also this little bit of old Americana there as well:

(In 1922) .... Washington's attorney general, in his argument, stated that Japanese people could not fit into American society because assimilation was not possible for "the Negro, the Indian and the Chinaman"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman


While useage can make innocuous words into fighting verbiage, it seems like chinaman is kinda low on the scale.

this is pretty much bigp's point, near as i can tell. words that didn't used to be offensive now are. why? cause some people use the words in offensive manners? so if they eventually use the entire dictionary in an offensive manner are we going to quit talking completely?

[arglebargle]

this is pretty much bigp's point, near as i can tell. words that didn't used to be offensive now are. why? cause some people use the words in offensive manners? so if they eventually use the entire dictionary in an offensive manner are we going to quit talking completely?


BigP's point about a bit of oversensitivity is well taken. Someone can easilly use the term Chinaman without meaning anything disrespectful. On the other hand, words gain their meaning from their use. Useage controls what goes in the dictionary.

If I were to start insulting you by calling you a 'stupid fetcher', or a 'smelly Wizzian', and it caught on, it would be derogatory, regardless of previous meaning.

But, in the final analysis, you control your reaction to these things.

Though for all the 'damn sensitive modern wusses' folk, Eisenhower had mandatory cultural sensitivity training for all GIs going to England during WWII, and he fired generals for using cultural slurs against the English.

[iceberg]

BigP's point about a bit of oversensitivity is well taken. Someone can easilly use the term Chinaman without meaning anything disrespectful. On the other hand, words gain their meaning from their use. Useage controls what goes in the dictionary.

If I were to start insulting you by calling you a 'stupid fetcher', or a 'smelly Wizzian', and it caught on, it would be derogatory, regardless of previous meaning.

But, in the final analysis, you control your reaction to these things.

Though for all the 'damn sensitive modern wusses' folk, Eisenhower had mandatory cultural sensitivity training for all GIs going to England during WWII, and he fired generals for using cultural slurs against the English.

yea, but if everyone is looking out to be discriminated against cause it's trendy and they don't want to be left out, some words *some* may find offensive just need to be left alone and *they* need to get over it.

[arglebargle]

Dang trendy bandwagooneers! :D

[ChldsPlay]

So who made it offensive, where was the meeting held, just being told its derogative doesnt mean it is. Why is that just because somewhere we're told or read it, its offensive.


Just another way to make sure we dont say anything to anyone in hopes of not offending them.

I've always wondered the same thing about ****, ****, *****, ***, etc. Who says they're bad? Not I. To me there is no such thing as a bad word, it's all in the context. And I feel if someone gets offended by a word someone says, then it's their own fault for being such a wuss and caring about whatever someone else says or thinks so much that they let it affect them so much.

And I agree with BigP. African-American is and always has been the dumbest way to refer to the name of a race.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm Blackanese

[ChldsPlay]

I'm Blackanese

I'm Caucavajobelgirish.

[ChldsPlay]

This whole thread just makes me think of the scene in Clerks 2. "I'm taking it back!"

[Bob Sacamano]

This whole thread just makes me think of the scene in Clerks 2. "I'm taking it back!"

it reminds me of "Road Trip"

esp. the part where one of the white guys ends up being a part of a black fraternity

[Danny White]

Where has Chinaman been derogative? I have never heard that? Can you give me a for example or somewhere in history.

tktNZpUTMoQ

[vta]

tktNZpUTMoQ

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

No more yankee my wankee, Donger need food!

[theogt]

Where has Chinaman been derogative? I have never heard that? Can you give me a for example or somewhere in history.What backwoods redneck part of the country did you crawl out of?

Please, go back.

[ShiningStar]

tktNZpUTMoQ


okay but where does that say "Chinaman" is derogatory? That doesnt answer the question.

[WoodysGirl]

tktNZpUTMoQ
My favorite 80s movie..

[Danny White]

My favorite 80s movie..

What's happening, hot stuff?

[iceberg]

My favorite 80s movie..

never saw it. bits and pieces yea, but never saw it.

fav 80s movies thought - to divert.

caddyshack
breakfast club
stripes

[lewpac]

Micheal has tried the opposite.


http://www.gemzies.com/upload/page_thumb/michael_jackson_before_and_after.jpg

Born a poor black boy. Wants to die a rich white woman................

[ShiningStar]

What backwoods redneck part of the country did you crawl out of?

Please, go back.


and yet the question isnt answered and you provided what you do best--- nothing.

[Danny White]

okay but where does that say "Chinaman" is derogatory? That doesnt answer the question.
I posted the video because I can't hear that word without thinking of that movie.

However, I do think it gets to the root of question. I don't think "Chinaman" is a slur so much as it's an antiquated way of speaking of a race of people. In the clip, it's funny because it's a crusty old fart who's making the comment.

Some terms just fall out of favor over time, not because their etymology is inherently racist, but because the context and even the era surrounding the popular usage of the word is associated with less-than-favorable feelings towards the group being described.

Words like "coloreds," "japs," "injuns," etc come to mind as similar examples.

It's interesting that you bring up "Irishman" as an example of a term that is common and acceptable. You really don't hear it used much anymore... and it can be considered derogatory if coupled with other negative stereotypes of that race: "He drinks like an Irishman," "He cusses like an Irishman," "I slept like an Irishman last night," etc...

I hate political correctness as much as anyone, but a lot of this stuff is just common courtesy. If a group of people no longer wants to be referred to by a certain name or term, why continue calling them that?

It's one of the reasons I detest the name "Redsk*ns" so much.

[ShiningStar]

I posted the video because I can't hear that word without thinking of that movie.

However, I do think it gets to the root of question. I don't think "Chinaman" is a slur so much as it's an antiquated way of speaking of a race of people. In the clip, it's funny because it's a crusty old fart who's making the comment.

Some terms just fall out of favor over time, not because their etymology is inherently racist, but because the context and even the era surrounding the popular usage of the word is associated with less-than-favorable feelings towards the group being described.

Words like "coloreds," "japs," "injuns," etc come to mind as similar examples.

It's interesting that you bring up "Irishman" as an example of a term that is common and acceptable. You really don't hear it used much anymore... and it can be considered derogatory if coupled with other negative stereotypes of that race: "He drinks like an Irishman," "He cusses like an Irishman," "I slept like an Irishman last night," etc...

I hate political correctness as much as anyone, but a lot of this stuff is just common courtesy. If a group of people no longer wants to be referred to by a certain name or term, why continue calling them that?

It's one of the reasons I detest the name "Redsk*ns" so much.

So what you are saying is that in due time it becomes bad to call people that regardless if they take offense to it or not. So if 1 person mocks the term Irishman than its bad for eveyone else to say it because now the term irishman is associated with a negative stereotype.

You have a problem with Redskins because people who were being killed by Indians called them Redskins, probably because they didnt know what else to call them, but since it was bad in the movies, its bad to call Indians Redskins now?

OOOO how things have fallen.

[trickblue]

So what you are saying is that in due time it becomes bad to call people that regardless if they take offense to it or not. So if 1 person mocks the term Irishman than its bad for eveyone else to say it because now the term irishman is associated with a negative stereotype.

You have a problem with Redskins because people who were being killed by Indians called them Redskins, probably because they didnt know what else to call them, but since it was bad in the movies, its bad to call Indians Redskins now?

OOOO how things have fallen.

Yes... taking offense is a flavor of the day thing now...

[ShiningStar]

Yes... taking offense is a flavor of the day thing now...


I take offense to that, i want a 250,000 word essay of an apology to me and everyone else that hasnt taken offense to a word yet and than kindly reminding them they must take offense to something whether it hurts them or not.


:p::p:

[Danny White]

So what you are saying is that in due time it becomes bad to call people that regardless if they take offense to it or not. So if 1 person mocks the term Irishman than its bad for eveyone else to say it because now the term irishman is associated with a negative stereotype.
No, I think nothing of the sort.

You have a problem with Redskins because people who were being killed by Indians called them Redskins, probably because they didnt know what else to call them, but since it was bad in the movies, its bad to call Indians Redskins now?

OOOO how things have fallen.

You're getting slightly warmer here, although I don't recall using "the movies" as any sort of justification.

Listen, Redsk*n is a slur... plain and simple. I can understand using a term like that back when they were the "enemy" -- similar to the use of "jap." Or of using a dismissive term like "colored" back when people really didn't consider them to be equal.

That isn't the case any more. Indians and Japanese aren't our enemies. Blacks are equal.

There's really not much of a purpose in using terms to describe them that are considered offensive.

I'm as conservative as they come, but I don't see why courtesy is such a controversial opinion. Do we need to prove that we not politically correct so badly that we lose our civility and manners?

[ShiningStar]

No, I think nothing of the sort.



You're getting slightly warmer here, although I don't recall using "the movies" as any sort of justification.

Listen, Redsk*n is a slur... plain and simple. I can understand using a term like that back when they were the "enemy" -- similar to the use of "jap." Or of using a dismissive term like "colored" back when people really didn't consider them to be equal.

That isn't the case any more. Indians and Japanese aren't our enemies. Blacks are equal.

There's really not much of a purpose in using terms to describe them that are considered offensive.

I'm as conservative as they come, but I don't see why courtesy is such a controversial opinion. Do we need to prove that we not politically correct so badly that we lose our civility and manners?


First of all "colored" wasnt dismissive, some people might have used it that way, but jerks come in all colors.

Second we called them colored, because thats what some wanted to be called. What term do you think President Lincoln used to refer as the group of black people when he wanted to let them know they were free? The term was Negro. Its not a 4 letter word, but that was the term that was used. Its no more offensive than any other word except for how you use it.

I can call you a nice guy, or I can call you a niiiiiiiiiiice guy and than roll my eyes. Nice guy is a nice guy, but how you use it might be the way people take it.

For example :) has gone from being ":" and ")" to what i say in an email, dont take it the wrong way :). its stupid as the day is long, but we've become so used to taking everything in an offensive manner or afraid to offend that we need stupid symbols in emails to let the reader know we're smiling and not being offensive. ;)

Its hard just keeping up with out own langauge much less who gets offended by what. I think people have gone so far to not be offensive its painful just to listen to them talk.

I still believe nothing has come from using the term Chinaman to now using the term Chinese dude. I believe fear has taken over some of the minds so bad its even starting debates of dated terms that people still get riled up about.

And jap might be a term offensive to Americans that dont want to call Japanese people japs, but its currently used amonst Jewish people refering to daughters as "Japs" Jewish American Princess. So i dont know if we should tell another group of people to not use their term because it offends white people who take offense of it being used on Japanese people.

And for any WWII vets out there, chances are real good Japanese people are their enemies for life, war or no war.

[WoodysGirl]

First of all "colored" wasnt dismissive, some people might have used it that way, but jerks come in all colors.

Second we called them colored, because thats what some wanted to be called. What term do you think President Lincoln used to refer as the group of black people when he wanted to let them know they were free? The term was Negro. Its not a 4 letter word, but that was the term that was used. Its no more offensive than any other word except for how you use it.

I won't speak for others, but depending on the person, I'd be upset if you came up to me and called me "colored". An elderly white woman called me that once, my friend and I looked at each other and held our peace in front of her. My friend and I talked about it between ourselves.

If it was a younger person, then there would be dialogue. Not in anger, but there would be a discussion.

Sometimes what was once acceptable, simply isn't anymore. I don't see that as PC, I just see that as evolving with the times.

[ShiningStar]

I won't speak for others, but depending on the person, I'd be upset if you came up to me and called me "colored". An elderly white woman called me that once, my friend and I looked at each other and held our peace in front of her. My friend and I talked about it between ourselves.

If it was a younger person, then there would be dialogue. Not in anger, but there would be a discussion.

Sometimes what was once acceptable, simply isn't anymore. I don't see that as PC, I just see that as evolving with the times.


So what we're saying is everyone needs to get a memo depending on the times. If an elderly woman called you color because during her time it was the right thing to do and you hold your peace because you took offense to it. Really? Did you give her a cell phone or black berry so she can get the updated words to not offend anyone? Should elderly get email so they can keep up with the times.

Couldnt you have said no ma'am this is my name and you can refer to me as that?

Should I hold my peace if an elderly black lady calls me a white guy? Should i get her a cell phone with updates on what to call peach colored euro centric people of mix decent? Should i be offended because she forgot to add Native American too? Where does it end?

The reason i dont call all Black people african americans because one lady had told me thats what i had to call them. So i said when did that meeting come about, we had to call them negros to color to black, to african american regardless if they come from there. I said what if a black person is Jamacian, Do i say African American and wait for the response, do i say black reginonal warm climate fellow? Whats the new term if they dont come Africa?

[WoodysGirl]

So what we're saying is everyone needs to get a memo depending on the times. If an elderly woman called you color because during her time it was the right thing to do and you hold your peace because you took offense to it. Really? Did you give her a cell phone or black berry so she can get the updated words to not offend anyone? Should elderly get email so they can keep up with the times.

Couldnt you have said no ma'am this is my name and you can refer to me as that?

Should I hold my peace if an elderly black lady calls me a white guy? Should i get her a cell phone with updates on what to call peach colored euro centric people of mix decent? Should i be offended because she forgot to add Native American too? Where does it end?I think you've finally jumped the shark. No reason to really engage this discussion any further.

I think Danny White had it right when suggesting it's common courtesy, so that's where it will end for me.

[DFWJC]

I won't speak for others, but depending on the person, I'd be upset if you came up to me and called me "colored". An elderly white woman called me that once, my friend and I looked at each other and held our peace in front of her. My friend and I talked about it between ourselves.

If it was a younger person, then there would be dialogue. Not in anger, but there would be a discussion.

Sometimes what was once acceptable, simply isn't anymore. I don't see that as PC, I just see that as evolving with the times.

Makes sense. In past generations "colored" was not derogatory in any way--nor meant to be so. Sounds funny now, because everyone is "colored". Even now, I'm sure someone saying it wouldn't be ill-willed...it's just a very outdated term and pretty non-PC at this point.

On the other hand, I was at dinner in The Hague a few months ago with a table full of Europeans (Dutch, German, and Brits) and Africans (Gabon) and they all thought it was odd that we use the term "Black" in the US to describe someone of African descent. They thought that it was in poor taste--saying why would you call Obama "black"...he's not black at all.

I just told them that the term for some reason was somewhat acceptable just as "white" does not fit really for caucasions but is most often used. It's all silly really.

[ShiningStar]

I believe its because we take so much offense to every little thing, other people dont converse because they dont know what to say to each other and how to not offend someone.

I think the PC world exploded and its just to personal offenses now. Much easier than keeping everyone up to date, due to region, religion, sex, etc etc.

[daschoo]

On the other hand, I was at dinner in The Hague a few months ago with a table full of Europeans (Dutch, German, and Brits) and Africans (Gabon) and they all thought it was odd that we use the term "Black" in the US to describe someone of African descent. They thought that it was in poor taste--saying why would you call Obama "black"...he's not black at all.

thats weird. i guess it varies from place to place but over here coloured would be the PC thing to say where as refering to someone as black is very un-PC. to the extent that schools no longer have blackboards they now have chalkboards and the song has changed from bah bah black sheep to baa baa happy sheep. my opinion would be that as someone stated earlier the way the word is delivered is usualy more important than the word itself (with some obvious exceptions) for example if an englishman was to refer to me as jock the way and context in which it was said would determine my reaction.

edited because i couldn't spell baa for some reason :blush:

[Danny White]

So i dont know if we should tell another group of people to not use their term because it offends...

There's an important distinction here that I want to make.

I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say "we" -- but I certainly don't want anything I've said to be misconstrued in thinking that I favor the government making laws to make words illegal.

I'm just talking about myself personally.

If I'm using a word to describe a group of people and then I find out that the word is offensive or has become offensive, then I am going to change my personal behavior and stop using that word out of common courtesy. That just makes sense to me.

But I'm not going to go out of my way to force others to accept my way of thinking. I may state my opinion, but that's about it.

The Redsk*n thing would be an exception, but I think most people on this forum can figure out where I'm coming from with that. :)

[DFWJC]

thats weird. i guess it varies from place to place but over here coloured would be the PC thing to say where as refering to someone as black is very un-PC. .

Actually, it sounds as though they (my Euro and African biz dinner quests in Holland) agree with you completely.

[daschoo]

Actually, it sounds as though they (my Euro and African biz dinner quests in Holland) agree with you completely.

they do. i was meaning its weird that we (me and your guests on one side and americans on the other) have the complete opposite set of standards for the two words

[arglebargle]

.....

If I'm using a word to describe a group of people and then I find out that the word is offensive or has become offensive, then I am going to change my personal behavior and stop using that word out of common courtesy. That just makes sense to me.
....


Sadly, what you describe is a little too often an uncommon courtesy.

[DFWJC]

they do. i was meaning its weird that we (me and your guests on one side and americans on the other) have the complete opposite set of standards for the two words

I missed my afternoon coffee....soooo kinda slooowww.

[ChldsPlay]

I think I take offense to the words fat, obese, overweight, hefty, chunky, husky, large, round, spare-tire, big, huge, chubby, belly, etc.

I decree that from now on, all non-skinny folk shall be referred to as Bad-*** Americans, regardless of whether or not they're from the Americas. Anything else is just offensive.

[Bob Sacamano]

I think I take offense to the words fat, obese, overweight, hefty, chunky, husky, large, round, spare-tire, big, huge, chubby, belly, etc.

I decree that from now on, all non-skinny folk shall be referred to as Bad-*** Americans, regardless of whether or not they're from the Americas. Anything else is just offensive.

same here

[vta]

I think I take offense to the words fat, obese, overweight, hefty, chunky, husky, large, round, spare-tire, big, huge, chubby, belly, etc.

I decree that from now on, all non-skinny folk shall be referred to as Bad-*** Americans, regardless of whether or not they're from the Americas. Anything else is just offensive.

same here

A couple of 'bad-*****', eh?
:D

[Bob Sacamano]

A couple of 'bad-*****', eh?
:D

bad-***** UNITE!! cannonball!!

[Viper]

bad-***** UNITE!! cannonball!!

yeah, I heard you're fat...:D

[WarC]

this thread needs some icy hot stuntage.