Repubs Fire on Pelosi

[ShiningStar]

Republicans to Pelosi: Prove Your Case or Apologize to CIA

House Minority Leader John Boehner told FOX News that lying to Congress is a crime, so if Speaker Nancy Pelosi thinks agency officials did so, she needs to present evidence and have the Justice Department prosecute it or apologize for casting aspersions.



It's week two and Republicans aren't about to let House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's accusation that the CIA lied to Congress slip between the cracks.
House Minority Leader John Boehner told FOX News on Monday that "the ball is in the speaker's court." If she is accusing the CIA of lying, she "needs to come forward, either present evidence or do an apology, and let's get this behind us."
"Lying to Congress is a crime. Purposely misleading Congress is a crime. And if the speaker is accusing the intelligence community of lying to her or purposefully misleading her, then she ought to present that evidence, turn it over to the Justice Department, have them prosecute it," Boehner said.
But Boehner did not call for Pelosi's ouster.
"Let's not get too far down the road here. I'm not going to take anything off the table, but I do believe that -- that the ball is in her court. And she has to either put up or have an apology and move on," he said.
Pelosi caused a stir last week when she accused the CIA of misleading Congress about its use of enhanced interrogation techniques on terror detainees, particularly on Abu Zubaydah.
"Yes I am saying the CIA was misleading the Congress, and at the same time the (Bush) administration was misleading the Congress on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, to which I said that this intelligence doesn't support the imminent threat," Pelosi said at her weekly news conference on Thursday.
"Every step of the way the administration was misleading the Congress and that is the issue and that's why we need a truth commission," she said.
On Friday, CIA Director Leon Panetta issued a letter to CIA staff repeating his statement of a day earlier that the agency's response to congressional inquiries shows that "our contemporaneous records from September 2002 indicate that CIA officers briefed truthfully on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, describing 'the enhanced techniques that had been employed.' Ultimately, it is up to Congress to evaluate all the evidence and reach its own conclusions about what happened."
"I think that it's pretty clear that Mr. Panetta and the CIA believe that they were truthful in their briefings to Ms. Pelosi. There's been no reason to lie," Boehner said Monday.
According to a Rasmussen poll out on Monday, 43 percent of voters nationwide say they believe the CIA could have misled Pelosi about the use of waterboarding while 41 percent said that's unlikely. The belief and disbelief tracked closely with political party affiliation.
The poll of 1,000 likely voters taken over the weekend has a 3 percent margin of error. In it, 58 percent said they don't want any probes of how the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects.
Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., said that Pelosi either needs to prove her case or apologize.
"If indeed Nancy Pelosi has lied, which it seems to me that she has, then she either needs to resign or at the very least have a public and open apology to the CIA," Franks said.
Franks then accused Democrats, including Pelosi, of constantly undermining the Bush administration for political points.
"They held themselves completely unconstrained to the truth in all of those debates and it was I think damaging to our country and damaging to our national security, and it seems like now that they are in the supermajority, they've completely disinvited the truth from the entire discussion," Franks said.
"We could be facing nuclear jihad in the coming years, and being able to rely on what people say is of more and more importance to the American people," he added.
Franks acknowledged that for now it's more advantageous to Republicans for Pelosi to stay in office.
"Politically it might be better for us if she stays in because I think she's lost credibility with the American people, and it's easier for us to point out some of the foibles of the Democrat leadership with her in the leadership," he said.

[Yeagermeister]

Yeah good luck with that. :laugh2:

[Bob Sacamano]

everyone knows Pelosi is a POS, but this is just getting retarded

I think there's more important things for them to be worrying about

[Danny White]

Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., said that Pelosi either needs to prove her case or apologize.

This seems like a perfectly reasonable request, if you ask me.

[BadWolf]

I thought they were trying to shoot her, such a disappointment. I was going to say they should just get Cheney to do it, he could shoot her in the face from a whole 3 feet away.

[DFWJC]

She's just a terrible House Speaker---regardless of your politics.

[DIAF]

More and more people think she's going to have to step down eventually, she's becoming an embarrassment. So let's have this kept in the news as long as possible, please.

[Jarv]

I think they should keep on the heat, had this been a republican it would be front page NY times to have them step down and resign your seat...

[ShiningStar]

I think they should keep on the heat, had this been a republican it would be front page NY times to have them step down and resign your seat...


I agree, they can go on and on about Cheney, but Pelosi, ohhh its not her fault.

[Hostile]

I thought they were trying to shoot her, such a disappointment. I was going to say they should just get Cheney to do it, he could shoot her in the face from a whole 3 feet away.He only shoots his friends.

[ConcordCowboy]

Bob Graham: I Wasn’t Told About Waterboarding Or EITs In My Briefing

Former Senator Bob Graham, who received a classified briefing on terror detainees during the same month in the fall of 2002 as Nancy Pelosi, was not briefed about the use of either waterboarding or enhanced interrogation techniques during the meeting, he claimed in an interview with me.

Graham’s assertion — his first public comments since the release of the intelligence document detailing torture briefings given to members of Congress — directly contradicts the document’s claim that he had been briefed on enhanced interrogation techniques, or EITs. Graham is now the second Dem official to deny on the record the document’s contents and raises questions about its claim that Pelosi had been told, which she has denied.

“I do not have any recollection of being briefed on waterboarding or other forms of extraordinary interrogation techniques, or Abu Zubaydah being subjected to them,” Graham told me by phone moments ago, in a reference to the terror suspect who had been repeatedly waterboarded the month before.

Graham is the only other Dem aside from Pelosi to get briefed in 2002, so they are both in effect asserting that no Dem was briefed on the use of EITs that year. The date of the next briefing was in February 2003.

Graham claimed he would have remembered if he’d been told about the use of torture. “Something as unexpected and dramatic as that would be the kind of thing that you would normally expect to recall even years later,” he said.

The documents released late last week state that Graham, then the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and ranking Republican Richard Shelby, were briefed on September 27, 2002 and given a “description of the particular EITs that had been employed” on Abu Zubaydah. The document says that Pelosi received a similar briefing earlier that month, though the letter accompanying the doc acknowledges that the CIA can’t vouch for its accuracy.

Graham denied being told about EITs, and argued that the presence of two staff members at the meeting (as indicated in the records) would have made it “highly unusual” for the briefers to divulge such sensitive info. “I don’t recall having had one of those kinds of briefings with staff present,” he said. “That would defeat the purpose of keeping a tight hold” on the info.

Graham, however, was circumspect on what was actually discussed, saying only that “the general topic had to do with detainee interrogations” but didn’t include any reference to EITs or waterboarding.

Graham’s claims come as evidence remains mixed about what Pelosi knew and when. Though she has denied being told that torture was being used, the CIA docs claim that a top Pelosi aide was told about it in the spring of 2003.

The CIA declined comment on Graham’s claim, but a U.S. official said: “CIA records indicate that several people, including former Senator Graham, were briefed on enhanced interrogation techniques.”

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/bob-graham-i-wasnt-told-about-waterboarding-or-eits-in-my-briefing/

[burmafrd]

Does not matter what they do as long as its a lib concord will shill for them/defending Pelosi= how low can you go?

ANd that site= daily kos has more credibility then a blog no matter who runs it(and that is a pretty sad thing to say in itself)

[Bob Sacamano]

burm, your running feud with Democrats on here is really fun to watch

keep it up

[MetalHead]

burm, your running feud with Democrats on here is really fun to watch

keep it up
+1...

[ConcordCowboy]

Does not matter what they do as long as its a lib concord will shill for them/defending Pelosi= how low can you go?

ANd that site= daily kos has more credibility then a blog no matter who runs it(and that is a pretty sad thing to say in itself)

Show me ONE...just ONE post on this forum where I have ever defended Pelosi.

Do it or shut up.

As a matter of fact I can't stand Pelosi.

But the fact of the matter is Graham keeps detailed notes...in his special notebooks...like everything he does from the time he gets up until the time he goes to bed...and has done this for 30 YEARS.

He has thousands of these notebooks.

So he asked the CIA to give him the dates that he was supposed to get some briefings from the CIA and out of 4 dates that they gave him...3 of those days he has NOTHING in his notes about any CIA briefing...as in they didn't happen or the CIA was mistaken.

So while I'm not defending Pelosi...now another person who keeps extremely detained notes on his life...EVERY day of his life...is now saying the same thing as Pelosi.

Something to think about...of course that would require you to actually think...so I'm not expecting much.

[Bob Sacamano]

LIBS!! go home!

[ConcordCowboy]

LIBS!! go home!

My work here is never done! :p:

[Rogah]

So while I'm not defending Pelosi...now another person who keeps extremely detained notes on his life...EVERY day of his life...is now saying the same thing as Pelosi.That's funny how you say "so while I'm not defending Pelosi" and then go on to do exactly that which you say you aren't doing :D :D :D

[ConcordCowboy]

That's funny how you say "so while I'm not defending Pelosi" and then go on to do exactly that which you say you aren't doing :D :D :D

That's not defending her.

I'm saying someone else had the same issue...and he kept VERY DETAILED NOTES.

Needs to be checked out before we hang her.

That's all.

Now if she's lying and she very well could be...then lets hang her. :p:

[ShiningStar]

That's not defending her.

I'm saying someone else had the same issue...and he kept VERY DETAILED NOTES.

Needs to be checked out before we hang her.

That's all.

Now if she's lying and she very well could be...then lets hang her. :p:


man he will defend her til the end.

And really, a politician lying? Surely you dont think she'd lie? Or any politician? What is your definition of lying? You know shes not telling you the truth, no one whos telling the truth tells that many stories. How many times does the truth have to come out.

A politician telling the truth, you crack me up.

[jwhardin]

We should very thankful that Biden and Pelosi never conceived children together.

[ajk23az]

We should very thankful that Biden and Pelosi never conceived children together.

The thought of that is just very disturbing. Thank you.

[SuspectCorner]

Next Republicans will be claiming Pelosi came up with the torture program herself and actually authored the "Torture Memos" - and don't forget extraodinary rendition and butt pyramids.

GOP: "Look at that shiny thing over there."

I'd love to see Pelosi forced out for deriliction in fulfilling her duties as House Minority Leader. But the Bush Adminstration is STILL the heaviest of the heavies in this blight on the American people.

[burmafrd]

Yeah sure suspect in your opinion which means squat.
If you and yours had been running things there would have been multiple 9/11 attacks on the US in the following years. In the end you would have been forced to do a lot of what Bush and company did right away- but in the meantime how many of OUR people would have died because of your so called high principals?

[ConcordCowboy]

man he will defend her til the end.

And really, a politician lying? Surely you dont think she'd lie? Or any politician? What is your definition of lying? You know shes not telling you the truth, no one whos telling the truth tells that many stories. How many times does the truth have to come out.

A politician telling the truth, you crack me up.

Show me where I have ever said politicians don't lie?

Just one post will do.

Seriously that is silly...beyond silly really.

[ShiningStar]

Show me where I have ever said politicians don't lie?

Just one post will do.

Seriously that is silly...beyond silly really.


You are the one who said if shes caught lying. I dont need a post i just want clarification, stop turning things around when you cant answer or appear to not want to.

Define your case for lying, she has lied 3 times already. Damn man even democrats are getting pissed. Stop the defending and just say it already, she screwed up and screwed up big.

[ConcordCowboy]

You are the one who said if shes caught lying. I dont need a post i just want clarification, stop turning things around when you cant answer or appear to not want to.

Define your case for lying, she has lied 3 times already. Damn man even democrats are getting pissed. Stop the defending and just say it already, she screwed up and screwed up big.

I'm not saying that she's not lying...in fact my first reaction to hearing her say this was...right...you're lying and in fact I still think she is.

But I do find it interesting that Graham would say the same thing.

And really one of the reasons I posted that article is that Rachel Maddow did a piece on it and talked about how he keeps his personal diary's.

I thought it was so weird...the guy keeps notes on EVERY little thing he does from the time he wakes until the time he goes to sleep.

Seemed almost like a sickness.

And he's saying that he asked for dates that he was briefed and the CIA gave him 4 and out of those 3 of them he's got nothing in his notes.

Which would go against everything he's done for over the last 30 years.

Now what does all this mean?

I don't know but I can't wait to find out.

[ShiningStar]

It means shes lying and the dems know it and they are trying to save her. If they just covered this up like Blagoa and Burris they would be over it by now.

[JBond]

I'm not saying that she's not lying...in fact my first reaction to hearing her say this was...right...you're lying and in fact I still think she is.

You could have stopped right there. :D

[ConcordCowboy]

It means shes lying and the dems know it and they are trying to save her. If they just covered this up like Blagoa and Burris they would be over it by now.

I'm sure there's going to be multiple people caught up in the wash when this is all over on both sides.

[ConcordCowboy]

You could have stopped right there. :D

Yes but it's my fascination with Graham's bookkeeping that kept me going. :D

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's interesting, I listened to an interview with James Moody this morning. Moody is a former FBI agent who recently retired from the Agency. According to Moody, there were only 3 or 4 people who actually saw the information that was gathered by the CIA with regards to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. According to Moody, most of what is being claimed by the FBI is supposition as nobody in the FBI, who has seen the results first hand, have made any official statements on the success or failure of the CIA's efforts in regards to EIT. I really think this is interesting since multiple FBI sources have indicated that EIT has not worked.

This, IMO, is why Cheney would like the classified doucuments released.

[ShiningStar]

I'm sure there's going to be multiple people caught up in the wash when this is all over on both sides.


why both sides? Not that i am defending republicans dont get me wrong, a politician is a politician.

[ConcordCowboy]

why both sides? Not that i am defending republicans dont get me wrong, a politician is a politician.

I'm talking about the whole investigation into torture not just Pelosi.

[ShiningStar]

I'm talking about the whole investigation into torture not just Pelosi.


WEll if thats the case, id make it all go away and do away with everything and let everyone suffer and cry for it. its all a cycle, no one wants guns til they are staring at one, no one wants cops til they need one, no one wants to pay for schools when they have no kids. just ugly after a while.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not saying that she's not lying...in fact my first reaction to hearing her say this was...right...you're lying and in fact I still think she is.

But I do find it interesting that Graham would say the same thing.

And really one of the reasons I posted that article is that Rachel Maddow did a piece on it and talked about how he keeps his personal diary's.

I thought it was so weird...the guy keeps notes on EVERY little thing he does from the time he wakes until the time he goes to sleep.

Seemed almost like a sickness.

And he's saying that he asked for dates that he was briefed and the CIA gave him 4 and out of those 3 of them he's got nothing in his notes.

Which would go against everything he's done for over the last 30 years.

Now what does all this mean?

I don't know but I can't wait to find out.

Well, I think that it's pretty clear Pelosi is lying. I mean, if you just listen to Panetta, it kinda confirms that the briefings took place. Leon Panetta is a Democrat who actually retired from Public Service and then came back to head up the CIA at the request of the President. He has nothing to gain or lose, IMO, in this whole thing and he has long standing ties to Pelosi since his California Political days. If the torture thing is found to have merits, it happened on somebody else's watch. If it proves to be that the torture worked, he's the head of the CIA so that's good for him. He is saying that the Agency keeps minutes of what is briefed and who is briefed. He's saying that he has records to prove that the CIA did not do what Pelosi claims. She's screwed herself and anybody who tries to defend her on this is probably going to waste serious political capitol. She is and always has been a political disaster waiting to happen. I'm just amazed that she has made it as far as she has without managing to decapitate herself before now. JMO of course.

[JBond]

LIBS!! go home!

LOL! I don't think it took. They are still posting. Try it again.

Actually this place would be quite boring without them. I would be stuck chatting with radical right wingers like DIAF all day.;)

[ConcordCowboy]

Well, I think that it's pretty clear Pelosi is lying. I mean, if you just listen to Panetta, it kinda confirms that the briefings took place. Leon Panetta is a Democrat who actually retired from Public Service and then came back to head up the CIA at the request of the President. He has nothing to gain or lose, IMO, in this whole thing and he has long standing ties to Pelosi since his California Political days. If the torture thing is found to have merits, it happened on somebody else's watch. If it proves to be that the torture worked, he's the head of the CIA so that's good for him. He is saying that the Agency keeps minutes of what is briefed and who is briefed. He's saying that he has records to prove that the CIA did not do what Pelosi claims. She's screwed herself and anybody who tries to defend her on this is probably going to waste serious political capitol. She is and always has been a political disaster waiting to happen. I'm just amazed that she has made it as far as she has without managing to decapitate herself before now. JMO of course.

She could leave now with my blessing.

[burmafrd]

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1899778,00.html?cnn=yes

When even time says she knew what have you to say now?

[ConcordCowboy]

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1899778,00.html?cnn=yes

When even time says she knew what have you to say now?

"Pelosi, a career politician, has all too often filled the role of the bumbler in 2009."

I would say that's being very kind.

[burmafrd]

Can you imagine how much heat Pelosi would get if she were republican?

[Kangaroo]

Can you imagine how much heat Pelosi would get if she were republican?

I still hate her

[SuspectCorner]

It's a leadpipe cinch that Pelosi is lying because the CIA has NEVER been guilty of a fabrication or inexactitude... that's if we don't bother to remember (or were never aware of): the CIA's "non-involvement" in the 1973 Chilean coup, the Baptist missionaries whose plane was shot down during the Peruvian drug interdiction program of 2001, "slam dunk" Iraqi WMDs, former CIA deputy inspector general Mary McCarthy's report to the Washington Post that she "became convinced that on multiple occasions the agency had not given accurate or complete information to its congressional overseers" about interrogation practices, CIA "records" not really jibing with those of one of our country's most meticulous politician/diarists - Sen. Bob Graham, and especially Iran-Contra.

Except for a naive few, most of us realize the CIA is actually actively engaged IN THE BUSINESS OF LYING. We just tend to hope they spend more time lying to our enemies than to WE THE PEOPLE.

So, please spare us the "CIA as an unmitigable source of truth" crap. Seriously.

[burmafrd]

AND once again Suspect shills for a known liar in Pelosi.
And tries DESPERATELY to deflect the facts by attacking the CIA.
Typical liberal response to unpleasant reality.

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's a leadpipe cinch that Pelosi is lying because the CIA has NEVER been guilty of a fabrication or inexactitude... that's if we don't bother to remember (or were never aware of): the CIA's "non-involvement" in the 1973 Chilean coup, the Baptist missionaries whose plane was shot down during the Peruvian drug interdiction program of 2001, "slam dunk" Iraqi WMDs, former CIA deputy inspector general Mary McCarthy's report to the Washington Post that she "became convinced that on multiple occasions the agency had not given accurate or complete information to its congressional overseers" about interrogation practices, CIA "records" not really jibing with those of one of our country's most meticulous politician/diarists - Sen. Bob Graham, and especially Iran-Contra.

Except for a naive few, most of us realize the CIA is actually actively engaged IN THE BUSINESS OF LYING. We just tend to hope they spend more time lying to our enemies than to WE THE PEOPLE.

So, please spare us the "CIA as an unmitigable source of truth" crap. Seriously.


CIA admitted that they do lie. They lie any time they believe it is in the best interests of the U.S. However, they are not lying here. They have minutes and timelines of what was discussed, who it was discussed with and when the discussions took place. These records are reviewable by the President and if the CIA were lying about this, the President would undoubtedly protect Pelosi in this situation. She is way too important to the President and his future plans. By law, the CIA must brief Congressional appointees of the Security Commission on what is happening with our Intelligence Operations. If they don't, they can be prosecuted. CIA is not lying here. That, to me, is the underlying fact.

[burmafrd]

suspect will claim all the evidence is faked. He cannot admit one of his libs is a lying piece of crap.

[Rogah]

It's a leadpipe cinch that Pelosi is lying because the CIA has NEVER been guilty of a fabrication or inexactitude... that's if we don't bother to remember (or were never aware of): the CIA's "non-involvement" in the 1973 Chilean coup, the Baptist missionaries whose plane was shot down during the Peruvian drug interdiction program of 2001, "slam dunk" Iraqi WMDs, former CIA deputy inspector general Mary McCarthy's report to the Washington Post that she "became convinced that on multiple occasions the agency had not given accurate or complete information to its congressional overseers" about interrogation practices, CIA "records" not really jibing with those of one of our country's most meticulous politician/diarists - Sen. Bob Graham, and especially Iran-Contra.

Except for a naive few, most of us realize the CIA is actually actively engaged IN THE BUSINESS OF LYING. We just tend to hope they spend more time lying to our enemies than to WE THE PEOPLE.

So, please spare us the "CIA as an unmitigable source of truth" crap. Seriously.You points are valid, which is why I think the statements of Leon Panetta carry a lot of weight in this instance. I'm sure you'll admit Panetta isn't exactly a Republican shill, so when he criticizes Pelosi's statements, it carries a bit more sway than if he was just another Republican playing partisan politics.

[SuspectCorner]

You points are valid, which is why I think the statements of Leon Panetta carry a lot of weight in this instance. I'm sure you'll admit Panetta isn't exactly a Republican shill, so when he criticizes Pelosi's statements, it carries a bit more sway than if he was just another Republican playing partisan politics.

The problem is that Panetta wasn't anywhere NEAR the operations of the CIA during the time frame in question. The fact that Panetta can read and recite CIA records - in no way ensures those records as accurate.

[SuspectCorner]

suspect will claim all the evidence is faked. He cannot admit one of his libs is a lying piece of crap.

Ease up there, burm. I'm no shill for Pelosi and don't like her whether she's lying or not. She's another gutless pol to me. Just a high-ranking gutless pol.. for now, anyway.

But you'd be begging to have her back if my boy Dennis Kucinich was the acting Majority Leader. :D

[peplaw06]

They put this to a vote today in the house.

Pelosi is claiming the CIA is lying, so they said "we'll open up an investigationof the CIA. If they're lying, we want to know."

The Dems voted it down. LOL.

[bbgun]

Pinocchio, Snow White, and Superman are out for a stroll in town one day. As they walked, they come across a sign: "Beauty contest for the most beautiful woman in the world."

"I am entering!" said Snow White. After half an hour she comes out and they ask her, "Well, how'd ya do?"

"First Place!" said Snow White.

They continue walking and they see a sign: "Contest for the strongest man in the world."

"I'm entering," says Superman. After half an hour, he returns and they ask him, "How did you make out?"

"First Place," answers Superman. "Did you ever doubt?"

They continue walking when they see a sign: "Contest! Who is the greatest liar in the world?" Pinocchio enters.

After half an hour he returns with tears in his eyes.

"What happened?" they asked.

"Who the hell is this Nancy Pelosi?" asked Pinocchio.