North Korea tests nuclear bomb !!

[Dallas]

BREAKING NEWS — North Korea announced Monday that it successfully carried out an underground nuclear test, weeks after threatening to restart its rogue atomic program.

The country's official Korean Central News Agency called Monday's test "part of measures to bolster its nuclear deterrent for self-defense."
President Lee Myung-bak convened an emergency security session. His spokesman, Lee Dong-kwan, confirmed that a nuclear test may have been carried out in the North.

Seismologists from the U.S., South Korea and Japan reported earthquakes in an northeastern area, where North Korea conducted a nuclear test in 2006.
A 4.7-magnitude earthquake was registered in northeastern North Korea at 9:54 a.m. (0054 GMT), the U.S. Geological Survey said.

The quake, measured at a depth of 6 miles underground, occurred 40 miles northwest of the city of Kimchaek, the USGS said.

The Japan Meteorological Agency also said it detected seismic activity Monday morning. "We are checking whether they were due to a nuclear test," agency official Gen Aoki said in Tokyo.

In Seoul, the Korea Institue of Geoscience and Mineral Resources reported a 4.5-magnitude quake in Kilju in North Hamgyong Province.
North Korea also carried out a nuclear test in October 2006 in Kilju, a test that drew sanctions from the United Nations and prompted five other nations to push negotiations on a nuclear disablement-for-aid pact with North Korea.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Andy Laine said the U.S. government had no confirmation of a new nuclear test.

"At this point we've seen the reports and we're trying to get more information, but we're not able to confirm at this time," Laine said.




Sabre rattling at it's finest. I wonder what Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton will do now.


"Shame on you North Korea......now take my hand."

[Rogah]

Sabre rattling at it's finest. I wonder what Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton will do now.But the question is what really can you do? They'll do the same thing we've been doing for 50+ years whenever North Korea rattled the sabre... they will condemn the action in the "harshest terms," propose new UN sanctions, etc, etc, and then not really do anything else.

[TheCount]

I don't get it, this happened in 2006 and they are just now figuring it out? Or they tested another nuclear weapon in the same place they tested one in 2006?

Nevermind, just read the story. A second test following one in 2006.

[masomenos]

I don't get it, this happened in 2006 and they are just now figuring it out? Or they tested another nuclear weapon in the same place they tested one in 2006?

They tested a new one.

[Ren]

The US should test a few of their own, on North Korea

[burmafrd]

Bush let the MODERATES talk him out of stronger action and this is where we are now. SO how much good did all that talk, do, MODERATES?

[ThaBigP]

I don't get it, this happened in 2006 and they are just now figuring it out? Or they tested another nuclear weapon in the same place they tested one in 2006?

Nevermind, just read the story. A second test following one in 2006.

That one pretty much went "burp" instead of "boom". By all accounts we could gather, it appeared to be an incomplete (or failed) nuclear detonation...most experts think only the high explosive package (that is supposed to set off the nuclear reaction) went off - way too small on the seismographs to be a complete nuclear detonation.

I think the difference here is, the skirt came all the way up...looks like a completely successful test.

[theogt]

North Korea tests nuclear weapon 'as powerful as Hiroshima bomb'

North Korea today risked further international isolation after it claimed to have successfully tested a nuclear weapon as powerful as the atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima.

The test comes less than two months after the North enraged the US and its allies by test firing a long-range ballistic missile.

The KNCA news agency, the regime's official mouthpiece, said: "We have successfully conducted another nuclear test on 25 May as part of the republic's measures to strengthen its nuclear deterrent."


Officials in South Korea said they had detected a tremor consistent with those caused by an underground nuclear explosion. The country's Yonhap news agency reported that the North had test fired three short-range missiles immediately after the nuclear test from a base on the east coast.

The underground atomic explosion, at 9.54am local time, created an earthquake measuring magnitude 4.5 in Kilju county in the country's north-east, reports said.

President Barack Obama called the test a matter of grave concern to all countries. "North Korea is directly and recklessly challenging the international community," Obama said in a statement. "North Korea's behaviour increases tensions and undermines stability in north-east Asia."

The UN security council will hold an emergency meeting in New York later today to discuss its response to the latest escalation in the crisis. Obama and other leaders did not offer details on the council's possible response.

China, North Korea's key ally, said it was "resolutely opposed" to the test, urging its neighbour to avoid actions that would sharpen tensions and return to six-party arms-for-disarmament talks.

Japan, which considers itself high on the North's potential hit list, said it would seek a new resolution condemning the test.

Russian defence experts estimated the explosion's yield at between 10 and 20 kilotons, many times more than the 1 kiloton measured in its first nuclear test in 2006 and about as powerful as the bombs the US used against Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of the second world war. One kiloton is equal to the force produced by 1,000 tons of TNT.

The force of the blast made the ground tremble in the Chinese border city of Yanji, 130 miles away.

The North Korean news agency said the test had been "safely conducted on a new higher level in terms of its explosive power and technology of its control. The test will contribute to defending the sovereignty of the country and the nation and socialism and ensuring peace and security on the Korean peninsula and the region."

Gordon Brown described the test as "erroneous, misguided and a danger to the world". The prime minister added: "This act will undermine prospects for peace on the Korean peninsula and will do nothing for North Korea's security.

South Korea and Japan condemned the test, North Korea's second since it exploded its first nuclear device in October 2006 in defiance of international opinion. That test prompted the UN security to pass a resolution banning Pyongyang from activities related to its ballistic missile programme.

The South Korean president, Lee Myung-bak, convened a session of the country's security council after seismologists reported earthquakes in the Kilju region, site of the North's first nuclear test.

In Tokyo, Japan's chief cabinet secretary, Takeo Kawamura, said the test was "a clear violation of the UN security council resolution and cannot be tolerated".

North Korea had warned of a second nuclear test after the UN condemned its test-launch of a ballistic missile on 5 April and agreed to tighten sanctions put in place in 2006.

Pyongyang insisted it had put a peaceful communications satellite in orbit, but experts said the technology and methods were identical to those used to launch a long-range Taepodong-2 missile.

After the UN refused to apologise for condemning the launch, North Korea expelled international inspectors, threatened to restart its Yongbyon nuclear reactor – which it had agreed to start dismantling in 2007 – and walked away from six-party nuclear talks.

Today's test will add to fears that the North is moving closer to possessing the ability to mount a nuclear warhead on long-range missiles that are capable, in theory, of reaching Hawaii and Alaska.

"This test, if confirmed, could indicate North Korea's decision to work at securing actual nuclear capabilities," Koh Yu-hwan, a professor at Dongkuk University in Seoul, told Reuters.

"North Korea had been expecting the new US administration to mark a shift from the previous administration's stance, but is realising that there are no changes. It may have decided that a second test was necessary. [It] seems to be reacting to the US and South Korean administrations' policies."

Analysts believe the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, hopes to use the test to shore up support from the military amid mounting speculation that he is about to name one of his three sons as his successor.

Kim, 67, appears to be re-establishing his grip on power since reportedly suffering a stroke last August. Today's test is a direct challenge to attempts by Obama to engage the North and stem the spread of nuclear weapons.

Despite promising a fresh start to bilateral relations, Obama, who denounced last month's missile launch as "a provocation," has so far failed to persuade North Korean to enter into negotiations.

Kim Myong-chol, executive director of the Centre for Korean-American Peace in Tokyo, who is close to Pyongyang, said the test was a reminder that North Korea "is going it alone as a nuclear power".

"North Korea doesn't need any talks with America. America is tricky and undesirable," he said. "It does not implement its own agreements.

"We are not going to worry about sanctions. If they sanction us, we will become more powerful. Sanctions never help America; they are counter-productive … We don't care about America and what they say."

[Bob Sacamano]

penis-envy, that's all this is

[CowboyMcCoy]

penis-envy, that's all this is

Funny, yet still serious.

[ShiningStar]

penis-envy, that's all this is


its alrite man, everyone changes at their own pace. and so what if you dont, doesn't make you any less of a man.

[MetalHead]

They are testing 2 things:A bomb and Obama.

[ThaBigP]

Some seem confused as to why this is news now when it happened in '06 as well. Here's why: The last test in '06 was widely believed, after some analysis, to have been largely a failure. Either non, or partial, fission of the core.

Here's an article from back in '06 when France came out and delcared the first test a failure:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15217370/

With this latest test, there seems to no mistake whatsoever that this was a successful nuclear detonation, as far as I can tell.

[Jordan55]

North Korean Nuclear Test Catches U.S. by Surprise
One senior intelligence official says that even after the demonstration at the Punggye nuclear test site, the only evidence of activity that analysts could see in aerial imagery was a "couple of spoil sites," or large holes.
North Korea's decision to detonate a nuclear device underground Monday caught the United States by surprise, officials said.

"They didn't give us any warning whatsoever," one senior U.S. intelligence official who works on North Korean issues told FOX News.

Another official told Reuters that North Korea gave less than an hour's notice to the United States that it would carry out the test.

The official said the communist country made "no demands," and passed on the message that it would carry out the test through diplomats at the United Nations in New York City.

Step right up get your nuclear bomb information right here for the low low price, Iran you have first Dibs, and how many would you like to construct.
Sad part we were of course clueless on the event, Plan of action we definitely need to invite them over for dinner for open discussions.

[JBond]

North Korea source warns of new nuclear blasts

http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20090525/760/twl-north-korea-source-warns-of-new-nucl.html

Mon, May 25 12:26 PM

North Korea could carry out more nuclear tests if the United States continues attempts to intimidate Pyongyang, Itar-Tass news agency quoted an unidentified official in North Korea's embassy in Moscow as saying.

The source said new nuclear tests would take place "if the United States and its allies continue the policy of intimidation against North Korea," Tass reported.

North Korea said it successfully conducted a nuclear test on Monday, a move certain to further isolate the ly state, which argues it has no choice but to build an atomic arsenal to protect itself in a hostile world.

[JBond]

North Korea Tests Second Nuclear Device, Fires Short-Range Missiles

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124322074782250897.html

By EVAN RAMSTAD IN SEOUL and IAN JOHNSON IN BEIJING
Korea made its second test of a nuclear explosive on Monday and declared it was more destructive than the first, an advance that is likely to embolden Kim Jong Il's regime in rebuffing calls by the U.S. and others to halt its weapons program.

The country also launched three short-range missiles, including one from the same site from which it fired a long-range missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean seven weeks ago.

The actions show that the U.S. and other countries that for years have tried to persuade North Korea to give up its pursuit of nuclear weapons remain unable to get Pyongyang to bend to their will.

North Korea's detonation of a nuclear device is being taken more seriously by the international community than its long-range missile test of April 5, which Pyongyang defended as a satellite launch. Leaders of several countries, including the U.S., U.K., South Korea and Japan, immediately condemned Monday's actions.

President Barack Obama, in a statement, called the action a "matter of grave concern to all nations" and said North Korea was undermining stability in northeast Asia. "It will not find international acceptance unless it abandons its pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery," he said.

Speaking later in the Rose Garden of the White House, Mr. Obama called the tests "a blunt violation of international law" and said that Pyongyang has reneged on its commitment to abandon its nuclear ambitions, the Associated Press reported. The president said the U.S. would work with its allies to "stand up to" Pyongyang.

The United Nations Security Council scheduled an emergency meeting on Monday afternoon New York time to discuss the North's actions.

But it's unclear whether the U.S. and others will be able to muster a response strong enough to move Pyongyang from its stated goal of becoming recognized as a nuclear-weapons state.

One stumbling block has been China, North Korea's political ally and economic benefactor. It tamped down an effort by the United Nations Security Council to penalize the North's missile test in April.

The statement it issued Monday was nearly identical to its response to North Korea's first nuclear test in October 2006, saying it "is resolutely opposed to the test."

The new test appears to undermine the longtime Chinese argument that Pyongyang's provocative actions are designed to get attention from the U.S.

Pyongyang has refused to acknowledge two offers for bilateral meetings from the Obama administration. And earlier this month, North Korean newspapers printed an interview from a person identified as a foreign ministry spokesman who said, "The recent measures we're taking to further strengthen our national defense are to keep the country's security and the nation's sovereignty, not to have a dialogue."

In an indication of the pressures Beijing can expect, the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, said during a visit to Shanghai that the test is "cause for great alarm."

"These reported tests underscore the message our congressional delegation planned to deliver to top Chinese government leaders during our meetings later this week: The Chinese must use their influence to help bring North Korea to the table for the six party talks," Ms. Pelosi said, referring to the diplomatic process in which the U.S., China and three other countries have tried since 2003 to persuade the North to halt the weapons pursuit.

"This is not an easy situation for China," said Zhang Yushan a researcher on North Korea at the Jilin Academy of Social Sciences in Changchun. "It's another step toward a nuclear weapons capability."

But China isn't alone in arguing that the primary purpose behind North Korea's weapons drive is to bargain for the security of the Kim regime. That view is entrenched among North Korea watchers elsewhere.

Koh Yu-hwan, professor of North Korea studies at Dongkuk University in Seoul, says he believes Pyongyang will eventually seek negotiations with other countries just as it did after undertaking weapons tests in the past. But he acknowledged, "North Korea may say it will just go on its own way."

In a statement announcing the test, North Korea's state media said the nuclear device's explosion was larger than the one it tested in October 2006, but it was not specific. The statement said the latest test answered "problems arising in further increasing the power of nuclear weapons."

Earthquake monitors in South Korea recorded a seismic event at the site of the North's test measuring 4.5 on the Richter scale, compared to a reading of 3.8 for the 2006 test.

A Russian news agency quoted a defense official there saying its military estimated the blast size of North Korea's explosive to be between 10 and 20 kilotons. North Korea's first nuclear device exploded with a force of less than one kiloton, experts in several countries concluded the weeks after it occurred. By contrast, the first nuclear device tested by the U.S. in July 1945 amounted to 20-kiloton of explosive.

Senior U.S. defense officials said it could take "a couple of days" to determine the magnitude of the test. The U.S. military uses various sensors, including a radiation-detecting airplane, to gauge nuclear tests such as North Korea's first detonation in 2006. They also monitor seismic activity on the Korean peninsula.

The Obama administration has said publicly in recent weeks that it expected a second North Korean nuclear test. Pyongyang itself announced its intention in April. And North Korea's long-range missile launch that month was seen also as a precursor to another atomic detonation. Senior U.S. officials said they've been limited in their ability to persuade the North Koreans not to take these actions.

On April 5, North Korea fired a multistage, long-range missile, which flew across Japan and landed in the Pacific Ocean. It flew farther than the two previous long-range missiles North Korea had tested, one in 1998 and the other in 2006.

In the seven weeks since then, North Korea has pulled out of six-nation aid-for-disarmament talks and kicked out international weapons inspectors. It had earlier detained with little explanation two American journalists it claims were infringing on its territory and a South Korean businessman working in an industrial park the two countries jointly run.

The country's behavior turned more outwardly aggressive last October after dictator Kim Jong Il recovered from a stroke. Since then, finding a successor for the 68-year-old leader has risen as an issue in Pyongyang and groups in North Korea's elite have begun jockeying for power, with military hardliners appearing to gain an edge.

North Korea's actions came as South Korea is coping with the death of former president Roh Moo-hyun, who killed himself on Saturday in despair after becoming ensnarled in a bribery investigation.

Mr. Roh's policy of few-questions-asked outreach to North Korea fell out of favor in the South when Pyongyang conducted its first test of a nuclear device while receiving aid from Seoul.

Mr. Roh's successor, Lee Myung-bak, won office in part by promising to take a harder line. He ended South Korea's unconditional assistance to North Korea last year, a step that cost the North about $300 million last year.

Before the nuclear test was announced, North Korea's state media said that Kim Jong Il sent a message of condolence to Mr. Roh's family.

In Seoul, the benchmark Kospi sank as much as 6.3% by midmorning after North Korea announced the test. But the market recovered sharply to end just 0.2% lower at 1400.90.

Currency markets saw volatile trading but also recovered. The U.S. dollar jumped as high as 1,269 won, but pared gains and was recently at 1,248 won, compared with 1,247.4 won Friday.

Against the yen, the euro was buying 133.03 yen, after rising to 133.43 yen. The dollar was changing hands at 95.08 yen, from 94.85 yen on Friday.

—SungHa Park, John Murphy, Jay Solomon, Peter Spiegel and Dow Jones Newswires contributed to this article.

[MetalHead]

Bush let the MODERATES talk him out of stronger action and this is where we are now. SO how much good did all that talk, do, MODERATES?

Moderates=stand for nothing.Only positions,no principles.

[JBond]

Moderates=stand for nothing.Only positions,no principles.

They better take the correct position on this issue. I believe there are times when we can come together and this should be one of them.

I wonder if Obama will follow the policy set for by Clinton and used by Bush, of paying them to shut the hell up. I hope not. I wish we had taken a stronger stand during the last administration and we did not.

It's up to Obama to put a stop to this. We are being held hostage for money, food and oil by these tin pot dictators. We he do the right thing? Is this what many thought Biden may have been referring too?

Iran gave him the finger twice in a week, including today's announcement they will not negotiate with Obama. He has a lot on his plate. I pray he does the right things. If he make critical mistakes right now, there is no doubt the price to pay down the road will be huge.

[theogt]

Moderates=stand for nothing.Only positions,no principles.Git er done!

[Rogah]

Moderates=stand for nothing.Only positions,no principles.I disagree. I consider myself a level headed moderate, but I certainly don't hold back my opinions or lack principles. It's just that my principles don't fit neatly into a little box of "Conservative" or "Liberal".

Some issues, such as illegal immigration, I am probably to the right of Rush Limbaugh. Other issues, such as tax policy, I lean leftwards.

Also I don't take partisan stances where one party can do no right and the other can do no wrong. If someone does something good, whether it's Bush or Cheney or Obama or Biden, I give them due credit. I also give blame where it is due, no matter who does it.

[MetalHead]

I disagree. I consider myself a level headed moderate, but I certainly don't hold back my opinions or lack principles. It's just that my principles don't fit neatly into a little box of "Conservative" or "Liberal".

Some issues, such as illegal immigration, I am probably to the right of Rush Limbaugh. Other issues, such as tax policy, I lean leftwards.

Also I don't take partisan stances where one party can do no right and the other can do no wrong. If someone does something good, whether it's Bush or Cheney or Obama or Biden, I give them due credit. I also give blame where it is due, no matter who does it.

So you like to be taxed more.
The left is notorious for government growth and taxation...so,are you leftist when it comes to taxes?
I'm right wing,no doubt about it,and I believe in conservative principles.Less government=better for the citizen.Let the businessman in all of us triumph...right now I have an idea to start a business that no doubt it will be successful.
Lots of hard work ahead but I'm excited about the possibilities.
I will be successful...why should the government tax me based on my success?...are they encouraging lack of imagination?lack of effort?...
Let me remind everyone in this board that I came to the USA with my mom,luggage and $40 dollars in our pockets.We made it alright.
We own houses and extended family owns businesses.
We could not dream about doing so where we came from....God Bless this great land and I hope you heed the warnings.

[Rogah]

So you like to be taxed more.I have no problem paying taxes for the services our government provides. I'd rather pay for services than pull a California. I do have a problem with our government's excess spending and waste, but that's a separate matter. Also -and I guess this it what makes me one of those "unprincipled" moderates - I am the first to agree that there comes a point when taxes get so high it stifles growth, thus lowering overall tax revenues. I would not support going above and beyond that point. But neither do I just jump on board with any tax cut that gets suggested.
The left is notorious for government growth and taxation...so,are you leftist when it comes to taxes?Well, with all due respect, I didn't see the government (or our national debt) get much smaller in the past 8 years so I am not sure the right is any less "notorious" in that manner.

[burmafrd]

As is clear to anyone with a brain, BUsh was NOT a fiscal conservative and neither were any of the Republican leaders of the last 10 years. Once Newt and Trent Lott were no longer leaders we had no real fiscal conservative leadership at all.

[DIAF]

I disagree. I consider myself a level headed moderate, but I certainly don't hold back my opinions or lack principles. It's just that my principles don't fit neatly into a little box of "Conservative" or "Liberal".

Some issues, such as illegal immigration, I am probably to the right of Rush Limbaugh. Other issues, such as tax policy, I lean leftwards.

Also I don't take partisan stances where one party can do no right and the other can do no wrong. If someone does something good, whether it's Bush or Cheney or Obama or Biden, I give them due credit. I also give blame where it is due, no matter who does it.

uh oh

[MetalHead]

I have no problem paying taxes for the services our government provides. I'd rather pay for services than pull a California. I do have a problem with our government's excess spending and waste, but that's a separate matter. Also -and I guess this it what makes me one of those "unprincipled" moderates - I am the first to agree that there comes a point when taxes get so high it stifles growth, thus lowering overall tax revenues. I would not support going above and beyond that point. But neither do I just jump on board with any tax cut that gets suggested.
Well, with all due respect, I didn't see the government (or our national debt) get much smaller in the past 8 years so I am not sure the right is any less "notorious" in that manner.

I understand and respect your point.
You present them in an intelligent and respectful manner.
You are right about the last 8 years.I too disagreed with the way money was recklessly spent,however,in the conservative model,irresponsible spending is not the way to go.
Bush did not stick to those principles.
The Obama campaign saw it and ran with it under the Hope and Change mantra.Things were due to change
Too bad the vast majority of moderates who bought in that line did not see what was he talking about,or what Obama really meant by rebuilding America.
If you love America,why try to rebuild it,and to whose image?

[Rogah]

I understand and respect your point.
You present them in an intelligent and respectful manner.
You are right about the last 8 years.I too disagreed with the way money was recklessly spent,however,in the conservative model,irresponsible spending is not the way to go.I agree with what Conservatives say on spending. Problem is I don't see any of them doing what they say they want to do. All I know is Republicans had a lot of political power in the first half of this decade, and spending kept going up and up.

I think out of control spending is the biggest fiscal problem this country has. I favor a responsible tax policy coupled with responsible spending. I am not going to sit here and play the partisan blame game, I am just going to call 'em as I see 'em. Neither party has taken the lead on that issue and the problem is not with the Republican or with the Democrats. The problem is with the voters.

Unfortunately, in our country, it is political suicide to cut spending. Oh, eveyrone says they want to cut spending - until their sacred cows are on the table. Any pol that seriously proposes we cut education, human services, the military, whatever, will soon find themselves out of a job. And for that we have only ourselves to blame.

[JBond]

I agree with what Conservatives say on spending. Problem is I don't see any of them doing what they say they want to do. All I know is Republicans had a lot of political power in the first half of this decade, and spending kept going up and up.

I think out of control spending is the biggest fiscal problem this country has. I favor a responsible tax policy coupled with responsible spending. I am not going to sit here and play the partisan blame game, I am just going to call 'em as I see 'em. Neither party has taken the lead on that issue and the problem is not with the Republican or with the Democrats. The problem is with the voters.

Unfortunately, in our country, it is political suicide to cut spending. Oh, eveyrone says they want to cut spending - until their sacred cows are on the table. Any pol that seriously proposes we cut education, human services, the military, whatever, will soon find themselves out of a job. And for that we have only ourselves to blame.

You are 100% correct. It is a major problem. I can't remember the last time government actually cut something. They may slow the rate of growth in certain areas, but rarely to they make legitimate cuts. My whole premise is the Government has more than enough money to carry out it's obligations as outlined in the Constitution. They just need to learn how to spend it better.

[burmafrd]

Well according to libs cuts in the increase are cuts in spending.

[Doomsday101]

Good thing we are giving them a warning. Bad N. Korea :laugh2: Hopefully this starts to wake up Obama that these are the people we are dealing with and talk is not going to change who they are and what their ambitions are.

[Temo]

They do this every 2 years or so.

[BigWillie]

Good thing we are giving them a warning. Bad N. Korea :laugh2: Hopefully this starts to wake up Obama that these are the people we are dealing with and talk is not going to change who they are and what their ambitions are.

Perhaps we should put them on a list with Iran. That will show them who is boss!

[Doomsday101]

Perhaps we should put them on a list with Iran. That will show them who is boss!

No we take out their nuclear capability and leave no doubt who the boss is as you say in your own words. Talk with these countries is meaningless it changes nothing what so ever by now I would think even the simplest minded person could figure this out. I think simply you give them a choice of lifting embargos in return you abandoned the course you are seeking or option 2 we continue to harsh embargos and we take out your nuclear ability. Then again I don’t believe in saber rattling I think we need to say what we mean and mean what we say

[arglebargle]

They can drop a nuke in Seoul with a 155 howitzer. They've been working on stealth boats and mini-subs for decades. And they are lunatics. They might fire off one of those nukes and take out Tokyo.

Nothing will happen there until the Chinese put their foot down. But the N. Korean mad dog is useful as a bargaining tool.

[Ren]

I'm sure a strongly worded letter from the UN will solve this, sure it didn't work the other 2357342824975 times but i got a good feeling about this one :laugh2:

[burmafrd]

They do not have a nuclear weapon 155. That is a very complicated and intricate device for that size and they do not have anywhere near that capeability. Right now odds are their weapons are still too large for any of their missiles. It will probably take a few more years to shrink them down to that size. RIght now the only way they could deliver a nuke is by aircraft.

[Rogah]

They can drop a nuke in Seoul with a 155 howitzer. They've been working on stealth boats and mini-subs for decades. And they are lunatics. They might fire off one of those nukes and take out Tokyo.

Nothing will happen there until the Chinese put their foot down. But the N. Korean mad dog is useful as a bargaining tool.As we've learned, their technology is roughly where ours was in the mid-40's. I do not consider "stealth boats and mini-subs" to be anywhere near a real possibility for them.

If anything, I would be more worried about a nuke being smuggled into the country via some sort of shipping container, instead of using conventional weaponry.

[arglebargle]

Ahem....

"Dimensions: L 10-20m, Displacement <80t
Armament: 2 x torpedoes (21” or 12.75”), light AAA
Speed: 40kts +

Although no hard evidence exists and North Korea employs stealthy torpedo boats, and or submersible torpedo boats, this is far from implausible because it certainly has exported both types of unit to Iran in early 2000s.

The vessels supplied to Iran included 10 Tir Class stealth boats (similar to the artist’s impression above), 10 smaller Peykaap class torpedo boats (which ,may be semi-submersible), and 3-6 fully submersible “Taedong” torpedo boats.

Finding such small boats on Google Earth is very difficult and imprecise but at least three boats closely resembling the Tir class in general layout can be seen at 39 09 38 N, 127 26 40 E. Google Earth screen grab comparison with Iranian Tir Class: http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/516/tircompzw9.png The slightly smaller boats moored alongside the North Korean suspected “Tir” resemble Peykaaps."

and

"North Korea appears to have a Fast Attack Craft with significant radar signature reduction characteristics. That NK possesses stealth technology is not all that surprising since they exported torpedo boats with these features to Iran in about 2002 (Tir and Peykaap classes). But we’ve seen no evidence substantiating that NK operates similar stealthy torpedo boats.

The armament of this craft is not clear, except that there is a medium caliber main gun mounted on the foredeck and a smaller AAA turret on the aft deck. News source estimates are a 56mm gun and a 30mm gun – I’d guess that “56mm” refers to the more conventional 57mm. There is no apparent missile launchers but these could be incorporated into the superstructure to anti-ship missiles can’t be ruled out. The sensor fit appears minimal but then again the radar mast may be retractable as per other NK origin stealth and submersible boats.

The hull is very wide suggesting that it is a multi-hull or even a hovercraft. A key Korean news source describes it as a “hovercraft” but after careful consideration of the photo and satellite evidence I believe it to be a surface effect ship (SES) similar in principle to the infamous Soviet ‘Bora’ class, or for a more modern and stealthy comparison, the Norwegian Skjold class. SES’ are generally very fast which supports the news source’s 90km (48kts) estimate – which is damn fast. In simple terms SES combine a catamaran hull with an air cushion similar to a hovercraft between the hulls – consequently it is understandable that a non-military source may describe it as a hovercraft when translating into English. Indeed North Korea has a large number of hovercraft which it has been producing since 1987, but in this case the absence of a visible external propeller points away from ‘pure’ hovercraft and towards SES. "

etc.....


http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71120&highlight=Bluffer%92s+guide%3A+North+Korean+Naval+ Power+2007

[WarC]

NK is arguably in the last years of Kim Jong Il's reign, only their second supreme leader after Kim Sung Il. The increased military saber rattling could be the party's way of securing the country for that transitional period. I bet the NK gov't is as concerned about civilian uprising as it is any foreign interventionism, because its been a system on its last legs since the early 90's.

It's a really sad country. I saw a very recent documentary filmed inside NK, the filmmakers pretended to be tourists and crossed over from China. Seemed like a bleak place. Country full of robots. I remember they toured some kind of education ministry and the Computer texts there looked like they were from the late 70's or early 80's...And they attribute everything, including those western Computer books, to "our dear leader".

The party there controls things to such an extent that they move older populations out of Pyongyang so that the citizenry in the urban areas seem more youthful and fruitful. It's kind of crazy actually, the social engineering that goes on there.

I have a feeling that that military would fall pretty flat if it ran up against tough resistance straight away. It seems like the people are very de-moralized. They're more Gulf War Iraq than they are Imperial Japan, if you know what I mean.

[WarC]

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=70000

This is an old threard from 2007 on the Iranian Navy, showing some characteristics, stats, and pics of those ships NK sold to Iran in 2002, the "Peykaap" torpedo launching fast attack boat and the Taedong-B and -C.

If the Iranians are buying this stuff off NK, it goes to show that NK is actually quite advanced when it comes to completely sovereign military tech...Which is, in the end, perhaps not that surprising as communist/stalinist nationstates are supposedly supposed to be economically/technologically completely self-sufficient/self-driven, although it rarely seems to work out...

Taedong-B/-C, torpedo carrying 'stealth' fast attack boat, POSSIBLY SUBMERSIBLE:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4343/taedongfg4.jpg


Paykaap, torpedo carrying fast attack boat:

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7352/peykaapjm5.jpg

[BigWillie]

They can drop a nuke in Seoul with a 155 howitzer. They've been working on stealth boats and mini-subs for decades. And they are lunatics. They might fire off one of those nukes and take out Tokyo.

Nothing will happen there until the Chinese put their foot down. But the N. Korean mad dog is useful as a bargaining tool.

North Korea will never have the gonads to drop a nuke. The minute that nuclear fallout hits China and Russia, they will be wiped off the map while we sit back and laugh.

Even in WW2, fallout from the atomic bomb reached the west coast, although it was not heavy amounts.

MAD can be a beautiful thing to watch. These people are all consumed with the idea of having obscene amounts of power. Nuclear bombs sitting in reserve give them power. However, nuclear bombs going off leaves them with no power since they will be dead.

North Korea are like the Redskins to us. They try to act important and once in a while they actually do get on our nerves, but they are really irrelevant.

[PullMyFinger]

Looks like we may have to go there and teach them a lesson, some people never learn.