Canada's Top Dr. : "We all agree that the system is imploding"

[ajk23az]

Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors

By Jennifer Graham (CP) – 1 day ago

SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."

The pitch for change at the conference is to start with a presentation from Dr. Robert Ouellet, the current president of the CMA, who has said there's a critical need to make Canada's health-care system patient-centred. He will present details from his fact-finding trip to Europe in January, where he met with health groups in England, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands and France.

His thoughts on the issue are already clear. Ouellet has been saying since his return that "a health-care revolution has passed us by," that it's possible to make wait lists disappear while maintaining universal coverage and "that competition should be welcomed, not feared."

In other words, Ouellet believes there could be a role for private health-care delivery within the public system.

He has also said the Canadian system could be restructured to focus on patients if hospitals and other health-care institutions received funding based on the patients they treat, instead of an annual, lump-sum budget. This "activity-based funding" would be an incentive to provide more efficient care, he has said.

Doig says she doesn't know what a proposed "blueprint" toward patient-centred care might look like when the meeting wraps up Wednesday. She'd like to emerge with clear directions about where the association should focus efforts to direct change over the next few years. She also wants to see short-term, medium-term and long-term goals laid out.

"A short-term achievable goal would be to accelerate the process of getting electronic medical records into physicians' offices," she said. "That's one I think ought to be a priority and ought to be achievable."

A long-term goal would be getting health systems "talking to each other," so information can be quickly shared to help patients.

Doig, who has had a full-time family practice in Saskatoon for 30 years, acknowledges that when physicians have talked about changing the health-care system in the past, they've been accused of wanting an American-style structure. She insists that's not the case.

"It's not about choosing between an American system or a Canadian system," said Doig. "The whole thing is about looking at what other people do."

"That's called looking at the evidence, looking at how care is delivered and how care is paid for all around us (and) then saying 'Well, OK, that's good information. How do we make all of that work in the Canadian context? What do the Canadian people want?' "

Doig says there are some "very good things" about Canada's health-care system, but she points out that many people have stories about times when things didn't go well for them or their family.

"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig.

"They have to look at the evidence that's being presented and will be presented at (the meeting) and realize what Canada's doctors are trying to tell you, that you can get better care than what you're getting and we all have to participate in the discussion around how do we do that and of course how do we pay for it."

Copyright © 2009 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.

link (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw)

[jrumann59]

YOu have to be wrong everything in canada is puppy dodgs and cotton candy. They have nary a care in the world since all is taken care of.

[ShiningStar]

YOu have to be wrong everything in canada is puppy dodgs and cotton candy. They have nary a care in the world since all is taken care of.


I believe, if I was told correctly, and no Democrat is wrong, that many a Americans whisk up to ol Canada for some good ol homestyle health care that takes care of all that ails you and sends you home like a rose bush.

[jrumann59]

I believe, if I was told correctly, and no Democrat is wrong, that many a Americans whisk up to ol Canada for some good ol homestyle health care that takes care of all that ails you and sends you home like a rose bush.

I only go up there for the beer.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Funny, I comment on the USA and am told to shut my face because I am not American yet you all feel free to comment on Canada.

[ScipioCowboy]

Funny, I comment on the USA and am told to shut my face because I am not American yet you all feel free to comment on Canada.

Has anyone participating in this thread actually told you to "shut your face"?

Because I sure haven't. And it's not as if you've actually ever "shut your face" so your point is moot.

[burmafrd]

I have and am happy to admit it.

When I lived in Watertown NY, which is about 30 miles from Canada, for seven years from 2001 thru 2008, the clinics around there every weekend were crowded- and 2/3 of the cars had Canadian License Plates. So none of this is a surprise to me.

[Rackat]

Funny, I comment on the USA and am told to shut my face because I am not American yet you all feel free to comment on Canada.
Oh shut your face, you're not...oh wait....never mind. You can comment on this if you want. :D

[zrinkill]

Funny, I comment on the USA and am told to shut my face because I am not American yet you all feel free to comment on Canada.

CanadianCowboysFan comments on USA = "Your soldiers are mindless robots", "You Americans who shop at walmart are trashy", "You are a warmongering nation"


ajk23az comments on canada = To post an article where canadians are saying their health care is imploding.


Sorry ........not the same thing.

[zrinkill]

As far as the topic of this thread.

All Countries could better their health care system.

Our neighbors to the north have more problems than we but as far as socialized medicine they have come the closest to keeping their Liberties while pursuing it.

Unfortunately the actual care is below what we here in America would put up with. Which is what happens when you socialize something.

[JBond]

Imagine a socialistic system not working like promised. Wow. Who could have guessed?

[Kangaroo]

Imagine a socialistic system not working like promised. Wow. Who could have guessed?

hey but we did not know what we where talking about being opposed to the system.

The facts said we had no clue :rolleyes:

[ABQCOWBOY]

Funny, I comment on the USA and am told to shut my face because I am not American yet you all feel free to comment on Canada.

CC you swear up and down that the Canadian Healthcare system is just find yet this article seems to paint a different picture. I'd be more interested in your comments specific to what the article suggest.

[Phrozen Phil]

I'm going to chime in here with some recent, real-time experience with the Canadian Health Care system. About one month ago I made contact with my Physician regarding a mole that had changed on my leg. With the recent death of Jim Johnson, it was a reminder to get that little beast dealt with. I really didn't believe that it was any big deal, but my Doctor disagreed.

He did a punch biopsy that day and sent it to the lab for a look-see. Four days later, I received a call that there was concern over the results and that I needed to see a plastic surgeon to remove the affected area. I saw the plastic surgeon the next day, but was advised that there was concern over the depth of the potential growth and was referred to a general surgeon. I had an appointment two days later with the surgeon, who examined the area and scheduled surgery for the next day. I had a chunk taken out of my leg which was sent to the Provincial lab for detailed analysis. That was 9 days after my original appointment with my doctor.

My Doctor had also referred me to a Dermatologist, who saw me three days after my surgery. She examined me from head to toe to determine if there were any other areas of concern. She found another mole that did not appear to be benign and she removed it immediately. Two days later , I got the results of the specimen removed fro the surgery. I was advised that the margins of the specimen were clear and that no indications of an invasive melanoma were present.

My wife cried (she's a nurse) with relief and I now have a better understanding of skin cancer. I will see my doctor at the end of this month for a regular check-up and we'll review the whole picture at that time.

Do we have problems with health care here? You bet. Costs are hard to contain in any system, but we do manage to deal with that issue. Access fro rural folks is a challenge, but I don't think that's unique to Canada. As for public health care "imploding", I've heard that claim before in past decades, and I expect I'll hear it again. My point is , I did get the care I needed, in a timely fashion, and I expect I will again.

I have stated before that I don't know if a Universal system is possible in the U.S., for a variety of reasons, particularly if the political will isn't there. I just hope that people can get affordable access to care, and that a serious illness shouldn't lead to serious financial hardship.

My final wish is for all of you to deal with the kinds of skin cancer symptoms early that might arise. Actually, any cancer sympoms should be tended to. I don't know all the circumstances around CBZ40's illness, but I'd be pretty bummed if we lost somebody else here, particularly if it was preventable. Take care of yourselves.

[zrinkill]

I'm going to chime in here with some recent, real-time experience with the Canadian Health Care system. About one month ago I made contact with my Physician regarding a mole that had changed on my leg. With the recent death of Jim Johnson, it was a reminder to get that little beast dealt with. I really didn't believe that it was any big deal, but my Doctor disagreed.

He did a punch biopsy that day and sent it to the lab for a look-see. Four days later, I received a call that there was concern over the results and that I needed to see a plastic surgeon to remove the affected area. I saw the plastic surgeon the next day, but was advised that there was concern over the depth of the potential growth and was referred to a general surgeon. I had an appointment two days later with the surgeon, who examined the area and scheduled surgery for the next day. I had a chunk taken out of my leg which was sent to the Provincial lab for detailed analysis. That was 9 days after my original appointment with my doctor.

My Doctor had also referred me to a Dermatologist, who saw me three days after my surgery. She examined me from head to toe to determine if there were any other areas of concern. She found another mole that did not appear to be benign and she removed it immediately. Two days later , I got the results of the specimen removed fro the surgery. I was advised that the margins of the specimen were clear and that no indications of an invasive melanoma were present.

My wife cried (she's a nurse) with relief and I now have a better understanding of skin cancer. I will see my doctor at the end of this month for a regular check-up and we'll review the whole picture at that time.

Do we have problems with health care here? You bet. Costs are hard to contain in any system, but we do manage to deal with that issue. Access fro rural folks is a challenge, but I don't think that's unique to Canada. As for public health care "imploding", I've heard that claim before in past decades, and I expect I'll hear it again. My point is , I did get the care I needed, in a timely fashion, and I expect I will again.

I have stated before that I don't know if a Universal system is possible in the U.S., for a variety of reasons, particularly if the political will isn't there. I just hope that people can get affordable access to care, and that a serious illness shouldn't lead to serious financial hardship.

My final wish is for all of you to deal with the kinds of skin cancer symptoms early that might arise. Actually, any cancer sympoms should be tended to. I don't know all the circumstances around CBZ40's illness, but I'd be pretty bummed if we lost somebody else here, particularly if it was preventable. Take care of yourselves.


Thank you for your educated opinion on this matter.

I hope you are right and I hope that that is how it would work in the United States if socialized medicine is forced on us.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree. That's a pretty complelling story, in support of Candaian Healthcare.

Phil, why do you suppose a story like this would come out from Doig? Is this politics or does the Canadian Government have a problem, long term, with sustaining Nationalized Healthcare?

I am happy, however, that you have received good care with this. Cancer is always a scary thing. Good for you Phil.

[Phrozen Phil]

I agree. That's a pretty complelling story, in support of Candaian Healthcare.

Phil, why do you suppose a story like this would come out from Doig? Is this politics or does the Canadian Government have a problem, long term, with sustaining Nationalized Healthcare?

I am happy, however, that you have received good care with this. Cancer is always a scary thing. Good for you Phil.

If you look at the article, her comments are part of the process of taking an objective look at the delivery of health on a regular basis. The Canadian Medical Association has their annual get-together to do this, and asks a lot of hard questions. She is posing those kinds of questions. I know that it's hard to find a family doctor in my province, largely due to explosive economic growth over the past decade. The Alberta Provincial Government has provided incentives for physicians to come from other countires. We have three Doctors from South Africa who were given financial incentives to come here. They have now established family practices and are doing well. There is concern that this may be a form of "stealing" doctors from other countries that also have a doctor shortage, and that's also the kind of issue that the CMA examines.

As for sustaining publicly funded health care, it's always going to be a contentious issue, as it's expensive. I do believe that if you were to ask Canadians in general, they would not want to give it up. The issue of some private delivery is always something that systems examine, and it's certailnly possible that some hybrid form of public/private health care my emerge in Canada. The technology in medicine today is incredible, and the delivery and management of cost of those emerging technologies is probably the biggest challenge for any health care system.

Something to keep in mind: the Architects of the Canadian Health Care were, to a large degree, physicians.

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you look at the article, her comments are part of the process of taking an objective look at the delivery of health on a regular basis. The Canadian Medical Association has their annual get-together to do this, and asks a lot of hard questions. She is posing those kinds of questions. I know that it's hard to find a family doctor in my province, largely due to explosive economic growth over the past decade. The Alberta Provincial Government has provided incentives for physicians to come from other countires. We have three Doctors from South Africa who were given financial incentives to come here. They have now established family practices and are doing well. There is concern that this may be a form of "stealing" doctors from other countries that also have a doctor shortage, and that's also the kind of issue that the CMA examines.

As for sustaining publicly funded health care, it's always going to be a contentious issue, as it's expensive. I do believe that if you were to ask Canadians in general, they would not want to give it up. The issue of some private delivery is always something that systems examine, and it's certailnly possible that some hybrid form of public/private health care my emerge in Canada. The technology in medicine today is incredible, and the delivery and management of cost of those emerging technologies is probably the biggest challenge for any health care system.

Something to keep in mind: the Architects of the Canadian Health Care were, to a large degree, physicians.


Do you believe that Canada could support large influx of users like the U.S. deals with? I think specifically of Illegals. I know that Canada is seeing more illegals then previously but on a scale of say 20 to 30 million? I don't know how you deal with this kind of issue when you have a Nationalized Healthcare system. It's not as if they are going to make themselves available as tax paying citizens. It's hard to figure out how to deal with that. It's a concern, for me, in any nationalized healthcare plan.

[TheCount]

Do you believe that Canada could support large influx of users like the U.S. deals with? I think specifically of Illegals. I know that Canada is seeing more illegals then previously but on a scale of say 20 to 30 million? I don't know how you deal with this kind of issue when you have a Nationalized Healthcare system. It's not as if they are going to make themselves available as tax paying citizens. It's hard to figure out how to deal with that. It's a concern, for me, in any nationalized healthcare plan.

I agree with this and it is one of my biggest concerns as well. It's one thing to pay for the health care of fellow citizens and quite another to pay for people that are here illegally, which only hurts the system in its entirety.

I don't suppose it has been discussed how this would work under the system Obama is proposing, has it? Will you need proof you are a citizen to receive health care?

[Rackat]

Will you need proof you are a citizen to receive health care?
There is not even a requirement to have an ID to vote. The Far Left will not allow some form of proof of citizenship to obtain healthcare either.

[JBond]

Phrozen Phil, glad everything is good health wise. I appreciate you sharing your experience. In one of your responses you mentioned a shortage of family doctors. The illegal alien issue has also been raised. Do you believe the limits imposed on income by your system has led to your country having to import doctors just to get by? I know the US has a large number of foreign doctors but I believe it is for a different reason. Two of the doctors my family use on a regular basis happen to be Indian and both are excellent doctors.

[Phrozen Phil]

Phrozen Phil, glad everything is good health wise. I appreciate you sharing your experience. In one of your responses you mentioned a shortage of family doctors. The illegal alien issue has also been raised. Do you believe the limits imposed on income by your system has led to your country having to import doctors just to get by? I know the US has a large number of foreign doctors but I believe it is for a different reason. Two of the doctors my family use on a regular basis happen to be Indian and both are excellent doctors.

The illegal Alien issue is on that's hard to compare here because, frankly, the scale of that issue is, from what I read, ridiculously bigger in the U.S. than it is here. You guys have a significant population of people right next door who can simply walk across a road or cross a river to enter your country. To get to Canada, that proximity is simply not there. I think the issue in Canada with illegals is concentrated in the larger cities, where larger ethnic groups are present. Again, it's pretty hard to compare, given the differences in law and as noted earlier, in sheer numbers. I do note that the Canadian Government has recently made it mandatory for Mexican tourists (as well as those from the Czech Republic) to get visas prior to coming to Canada. This was done in response to a recent increase in refugee claimants.

In terms of importing doctors, there has been a shortage due to the oil related boom here. For the last several years, there were up to 20,000 people per month coming to Alberta. There wasn't just a shortage of Doctors that hit us, it was shortage of skilled labour and skilled para-professionals that created a strain on our infrastructure.

Your comment on the Indian Doctors you've seen is particularly interesting. I recently took a frind to Emeg and he was seen by a Kuwaiti Doctor, who was completing his Emergency residency in our local hospital. He indicated that getting a residency in a North American Hospital was a preferred option for many Mid East and South Asian Doctors, as there were incentives in both Canada and the U.S to complete their specialized residencies here. He planned to go backto Kuwait upon completion of his residency, as he disliked having to cook for himself and wash his own clothes, which he had never done prior to coming to Canada. He did indicate that several of his cohorts were exploring options in the U.S. and Canada. He did like not having to chase patients for payment, and was fairly positive about his experiences here. He did indciate, however, that if he chose to stay, he could likely make more money in the U.S., but felt that the differences was less than it might appear.

In terms of illegals getting treatment here, I'm unable to come up with real numbers to state the case either way. I suspect that it happens, but again, the difference in numbers between the two countries likely affect the picture.

[poke]

did my browser get redirected to an alternate PZ ??

thanks to ALL who have commented in this thread, great points made,
good questions asked, this is what i read this zone for.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

CC you swear up and down that the Canadian Healthcare system is just find yet this article seems to paint a different picture. I'd be more interested in your comments specific to what the article suggest.

I have never sworn it is just fine. I have no problem with it but as with any system there could be improvement. Whenever doctors complain about it, I know deep down it is because they want to get paid more.

I sure wish it had covered IVF for my wife and I because her inability to conceive was purely medically based from previous issues she had.

I never claimed it was the best system in the world but it does rank higher than the US system and everyone is covered (and top it off, we spend less per capita than the US system).

We also have longer life expectancy and generally are thinner and healthier.

Does that make our system better who knows.

You all just shouldn't be afraid of government run health systems, the entire western world cannot be wrong and you the only one that is right.

[JBond]

The illegal Alien issue is on that's hard to compare here because, frankly, the scale of that issue is, from what I read, ridiculously bigger in the U.S. than it is here. You guys have a significant population of people right next door who can simply walk across a road or cross a river to enter your country. To get to Canada, that proximity is simply not there. I think the issue in Canada with illegals is concentrated in the larger cities, where larger ethnic groups are present. Again, it's pretty hard to compare, given the differences in law and as noted earlier, in sheer numbers. I do note that the Canadian Government has recently made it mandatory for Mexican tourists (as well as those from the Czech Republic) to get visas prior to coming to Canada. This was done in response to a recent increase in refugee claimants.

In terms of importing doctors, there has been a shortage due to the oil related boom here. For the last several years, there were up to 20,000 people per month coming to Alberta. There wasn't just a shortage of Doctors that hit us, it was shortage of skilled labour and skilled para-professionals that created a strain on our infrastructure.

Your comment on the Indian Doctors you've seen is particularly interesting. I recently took a frind to Emeg and he was seen by a Kuwaiti Doctor, who was completing his Emergency residency in our local hospital. He indicated that getting a residency in a North American Hospital was a preferred option for many Mid East and South Asian Doctors, as there were incentives in both Canada and the U.S to complete their specialized residencies here. He planned to go backto Kuwait upon completion of his residency, as he disliked having to cook for himself and wash his own clothes, which he had never done prior to coming to Canada. He did indicate that several of his cohorts were exploring options in the U.S. and Canada. He did like not having to chase patients for payment, and was fairly positive about his experiences here. He did indciate, however, that if he chose to stay, he could likely make more money in the U.S., but felt that the differences was less than it might appear.

In terms of illegals getting treatment here, I'm unable to come up with real numbers to state the case either way. I suspect that it happens, but again, the difference in numbers between the two countries likely affect the picture.


Thank you for clarifying. I agree a tremendous economic boom can lead to some shortages especially in skilled area's. That makes a lot of sense. Seeing how the US is afraid of using it's natural resources in a manner similar to your country, I do not think that particular problem will plague us.

Every year that goes by and the US ignores the influx of more and more illegals, many carrying diseases that were mostly wiped out here years ago, means the problem will get worse. There is no magic cure all for what ails the US.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Phrozen Phil, glad everything is good health wise. I appreciate you sharing your experience. In one of your responses you mentioned a shortage of family doctors. The illegal alien issue has also been raised. Do you believe the limits imposed on income by your system has led to your country having to import doctors just to get by? I know the US has a large number of foreign doctors but I believe it is for a different reason. Two of the doctors my family use on a regular basis happen to be Indian and both are excellent doctors.


We do have a shortage of family doctors but that is mostly out in the hinterland. I have a family doctor but it is hard to get in to see her so when I have a minor ailment, I just go to a local clinic.

Income limits do not lead to us importing, we have pretty strict standards I believe re foreign trained doctors getting their certification.

[JBond]

I never claimed it was the best system in the world but it does rank higher than the US system and everyone is covered (and top it off, we spend less per capita than the US system).

We also have longer life expectancy and generally are thinner and healthier.


I really wish you would stop quoting rankings from such entities as the UN. No rational person takes anything they say seriously. These numbers have been debated and debunked numerous times here and else where. If you wish to have a coherent discussion where you might change some minds, think long and hard about how Phrozen Phil responded in this thread. He was able to have a civil back and forth with several people that are known Conservatives. It's not impossible you know.

Edit: thanks for your response to my question to Phil. I posted the above before I saw your response. My thoughts on the WHO and UN stand though.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I really wish you would stop quoting rankings from such entities as the UN. No rational person takes anything they say seriously. These numbers have been debated and debunked numerous times here and else where. If you wish to have a coherent discussion where you might change some minds, think long and hard about how Phrozen Phil responded in this thread. He was able to have a civil back and forth with several people that are known Conservatives. It's not impossible you know.

Edit: thanks for your response to my question to Phil. I posted the above before I saw your response. My thoughts on the WHO and UN stand though.


actually it is, reactionaries will always hate what a progressive says and vice versa.

[Rackat]

actually it is, reactionaries will always hate what a progressive says and vice versa.
Progressives are only conservatives waiting for their ideas to be implemented.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Progressives are only conservatives waiting for their ideas to be implemented.

nicely put

[JBond]

actually it is, reactionaries will always hate what a progressive says and vice versa.

reactionaries and progressives. Do you mean Conservatives and liberals? If so why the name game?

How about Capitalists and socialists?

[ScipioCowboy]

I have never sworn it is just fine. I have no problem with it but as with any system there could be improvement. Whenever doctors complain about it, I know deep down it is because they want to get paid more.

I sure wish it had covered IVF for my wife and I because her inability to conceive was purely medically based from previous issues she had.

I never claimed it was the best system in the world but it does rank higher than the US system and everyone is covered (and top it off, we spend less per capita than the US system).

We also have longer life expectancy and generally are thinner and healthier.

Does that make our system better who knows.

You all just shouldn't be afraid of government run health systems, the entire western world cannot be wrong and you the only one that is right.

It's not a matter of right and wrong. It's a matter of advantages and disadvantages -- the strengths and weaknesses inherent to each system.

A universal healthcare system will not prevent Americans from stuffing their faces at Jim's All You Can Eat Buffet.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

reactionaries and progressives. Do you mean Conservatives and liberals? If so why the name game?

How about Capitalists and socialists?

I thought in the world according to reactionaries, liberal = socialist?

Ashton Kucher on Bill Maher made a good point last night though when he was commenting on right wingers in the US complaining about "socialism" in other medical systems. He said the right wing inthe US didn't mind asking the "socialists" in Canada and Britain to help fight the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (yes I know Canada declined to join the war in Iraq).

BTW, you always spell conservative wrong. In the US there aren't Conservatives, they are conservatives as there is no Conservative party.

Capitalist should also not be capitalized.

[Rogah]

I thought in the world according to reactionaries, liberal = socialist?

Ashton Kucher on Bill Maher made a good point last night though when he was commenting on right wingers in the US complaining about "socialism" in other medical systems. He said the right wing inthe US didn't mind asking the "socialists" in Canada and Britain to help fight the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (yes I know Canada declined to join the war in Iraq).How exactly is that a "good point"..? I don't see any relevance in opposing socialized medicine with asking a country who happens to have socialized medicine for help in a war.
BTW, you always spell conservative wrong. In the US there are Conservatives, they are conservatives as there is no conservative party.

Capitalist should also not be capitalized.BTW, you spelled "in the" wrong. They are actually 2 words and there should be a space between then "n" and the "t".

See how silly it is to be spelling Nazi..? We are not writing formal publications here and we all make spelling mistakes - good Lord knows I make plenty of my own. I guess criticism of spelling is the last resort of those who are unable to respond to the point at hand.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

He had to have deliberately put a big C on conservative and a small l on liberal. He did the same with capitalist and socialist.

Personally, I wish your 45 million uncovered individuals would get coverage, it would increase their health. However, for some reason, the rest of you do not want to help your less fortunate. That is a choice.

I just don't see why there is such anger at your town halls where people who really will not be effected are apoplectic over it.

Damn people, no reason to give yourselves a coronary over it. As Stitch Jones in Heartbreak Ridge would say "it ain't worth dying for".

[JBond]

http://www.710kcmo.com/Portals/5/images/toon072409.gif

[Rogah]

He had to have deliberately put a big C on conservative and a small l on liberal. He did the same with capitalist and socialist.The smart thing to do is not to show that it bothers you. Just ignore it.
Personally, I wish your 45 million uncovered individuals would get coverage, it would increase their health. However, for some reason, the rest of you do not want to help your less fortunate. That is a choice.And I wish your citizens didn't have to wait 9 months to get a blood test. Meanwhile here in America, if any one of those 45 million individuals (including the illegals) needs emergency treatment, they will get it and they will get it without any significant delay.
I just don't see why there is such anger at your town halls where people who really will not be effected are apoplectic over it. Shouldn't that be "affected" with an "a" and not "effected" with an "e"...? I never did terribly well in English, so I am sure someone far wiser could answer. I know how important spelling is to you so I am sure you will let me know if I am mistaken... Anyway...

With all due respect, this is a very ignorant statement. Obama is proposing the largest overhaul of public entitlements in our lifetime. To say the people at the town halls will not be affected is just wrong. Not only will it create taxes and deficits for us and our children unlike anything we have ever experienced, but the overwhelming majority of citizens will eventually be forced into the government's system one way or another.

[ScipioCowboy]

I thought in the world according to reactionaries, liberal = socialist?

Ashton Kucher on Bill Maher made a good point last night though when he was commenting on right wingers in the US complaining about "socialism" in other medical systems. He said the right wing inthe US didn't mind asking the "socialists" in Canada and Britain to help fight the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (yes I know Canada declined to join the war in Iraq).


This comment doesn't even make sense. Alliances are often formed between countries with different forms of government.

Socialized medicine and military alliances are not in any way comparable.

Is Ashton Kutcher what passes for insightful commentary on Maher's program?

[Phrozen Phil]

And I wish your citizens didn't have to wait 9 months to get a blood test. Meanwhile here in America, if any one of those 45 million individuals (including the illegals) needs emergency treatment, they will get it and they will get it without any significant delay.


I'm a little confused here. Are you saying Canadians have to wait nine months for a blood test? As for emergency treatment, I believe that similar protocols regarding emergency teatment exist in most countries, up to the point where a patient is "stable", which is admittedly a subjective term.

[Rogah]

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying Canadians have to wait nine months for a blood test?The "9 months for a blood test" statement was meant to be a hyperbolic reference to the fact that in Canada, they have rationed care and long waits for routine procedures. It was not meant to be taken 100% literally and I apologize if my hyperbole was unclear.
As for emergency treatment, I believe that similar protocols regarding emergency teatment exist in most countries, up to the point where a patient is "stable", which is admittedly a subjective term.I agree. Which is why someone making the point that America's 45 million uninsured are completely left out in the cold simply is not a valid point. Even those without insurance in America will still get emergency care when needed.

[zrinkill]

http://www.710kcmo.com/Portals/5/images/toon072409.gif


:lmao2::bow::laugh2:

[iceberg]

He had to have deliberately put a big C on conservative and a small l on liberal. He did the same with capitalist and socialist.

Personally, I wish your 45 million uncovered individuals would get coverage, it would increase their health. However, for some reason, the rest of you do not want to help your less fortunate. That is a choice.

I just don't see why there is such anger at your town halls where people who really will not be effected are apoplectic over it.

Damn people, no reason to give yourselves a coronary over it. As Stitch Jones in Heartbreak Ridge would say "it ain't worth dying for".

increasing coverage wouldn't increase health, just options when sick.

and you have no idea what i do for the "less fortunate" but seeing as you wizz on them coming out of wal mart, it's not like you're one to offer up examples of goodwill to "the lesser class".

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying Canadians have to wait nine months for a blood test? As for emergency treatment, I believe that similar protocols regarding emergency teatment exist in most countries, up to the point where a patient is "stable", which is admittedly a subjective term.

He's probably referring to a stupid video that alleged you have to wait nine months for a blood test. I've never had to wait for one, you get your form, go to the lab whenever you want and voila, get my test.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

increasing coverage wouldn't increase health, just options when sick.

and you have no idea what i do for the "less fortunate" but seeing as you wizz on them coming out of wal mart, it's not like you're one to offer up examples of goodwill to "the lesser class".

you are so cute when you're angry.

[Phrozen Phil]

increasing coverage wouldn't increase health, just options when sick.
and you have no idea what i do for the "less fortunate" but seeing as you wizz on them coming out of wal mart, it's not like you're one to offer up examples of goodwill to "the lesser class".

Maybe we need to think of health care not just in terms of treatment, but health education as well. I'm always amazed at the poor level of hygiene when dealing with some of my client families. In talking to my wife,(the nurse) she gets frustrated when peole seem unable to execute post-op folllow up in terms of dressing change, injury care etc. The good news has been that some of the outreach public health programs do make some difference. I've made some of my clients go out and wash their hands before their appointment. I do it nicely, but with H1N1 lurking, I don't apologize.

In terms of options with better coverage, is that a bad thing or does it create other issues in terms of cost? I'm not sure that everybody should get an MRI, just because they want one.

[iceberg]

you are so cute when you're angry.

but i'm not angry. : )

[ScipioCowboy]

but i'm not angry. : )

Just truthful.

[iceberg]

Just truthful.

well that seems to make some OTHER people angry. : )

[ScipioCowboy]

well that seems to make some OTHER people angry. : )

Last week, I was shopping at Wal Mart, and I found a special edition DVD Friday 13th Part 3 that includes a 3-D version of the movie and two pairs of 3-D glasses.

Needless to say, I'm now the proud owner of a piece of 1980s Americana.

:laugh2:

[ShiningStar]

Last week, I was shopping at Wal Mart, and I found a special edition DVD Friday 13th Part 3 that includes a 3-D version of the movie and two pairs of 3-D glasses.

Needless to say, I'm now the proud owner of a piece of 1980s Americana.

:laugh2:


you were an odd child werent you? I thought Candian said its horrible and trashy to shop at Walmart?

[CanadianCowboysFan]

you were an odd child werent you? I thought Candian said its horrible and trashy to shop at Walmart?

I said it was horrible and trashy to buy CLOTHES or shampoo at Wal Mart.

Clothes there have no style, no panache, no flair. The shampoo products do nothing for your hair. Shampoo should only be bought at a salon.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Last week, I was shopping at Wal Mart, and I found a special edition DVD Friday 13th Part 3 that includes a 3-D version of the movie and two pairs of 3-D glasses.

Needless to say, I'm now the proud owner of a piece of 1980s Americana.

:laugh2:

Unfortunately for you, you bought one of the worst movies of that series. Parts 2, 4, 6 and 8 (which I think was Jason Takes Manhattan) were far better.

Part 1 was pretty good too, especially where his mom was beheaded.

[Phrozen Phil]

Last week, I was shopping at Wal Mart, and I found a special edition DVD Friday 13th Part 3 that includes a 3-D version of the movie and two pairs of 3-D glasses.

Needless to say, I'm now the proud owner of a piece of 1980s Americana.

:laugh2:

To each their own. I thought they were just bloody awful. All of them. Having said that, perhaps it can be agreed that they are a piece of 1980's Americana, just like Leisure Suits are part of 1970's Americana.;)

[CanadianCowboysFan]

well the genre was good for simulated sex scenes

[iceberg]

I said it was horrible and trashy to buy CLOTHES or shampoo at Wal Mart.

Clothes there have no style, no panache, no flair. The shampoo products do nothing for your hair. Shampoo should only be bought at a salon.

in all fairness you only said clothes. shampoo i suppose came later. :)

for clothes, if jeans, i'm not that picky. wranglers relaxed fit are fine for me and much cheaper at a walmart/target. when i buy nicer clothes i usually hit kingsizedirect. : )

shampoo - well i've had a full head of hair all my life and the nicest stuff it's seen is paul mitchell at times. for the most part suave humacent is fine w/conditioner. lately i got on another Aussie kick and am using their shampoo/conditioner.

to me this is just taste/preference but i don't believe the stuff you pay $20 a bottle for is 4x better than what i get for $5 anywhere else.

[iceberg]

To each their own. I thought they were just bloody awful. All of them. Having said that, perhaps it can be agreed that they are a piece of 1980's Americana, just like Leisure Suits are part of 1970's Americana.;)

oh good god - now i wanna talk about retro-americana computer games!

1. zork - all of 'em
2. hitchhikers guide through the galaxy - same thing more or less

how do you show a door tea and no tea at the same time? never got past that door.

but one classic game that got so screwed on it's "rebirth" - leisure suit larry.

[ScipioCowboy]

Unfortunately for you, you bought one of the worst movies of that series. Parts 2, 4, 6 and 8 (which I think was Jason Takes Manhattan) were far better.

Part 1 was pretty good too, especially where his mom was beheaded.

I already own parts 1, 2, and 8. Part 3 is memorable because it was the first movie in which Jason donned the hockey mask.

[masomenos]

If I didn't know any better, I would think that this whole page was part of the "What's the Nerdiest Thing About You" thread.

:D

[ScipioCowboy]

If I didn't know any better, I would think that this whole page was part of the "What's the Nerdiest Thing About You" thread.

:D

No. That's in the Reagan thread.

[Rogah]

I said it was horrible and trashy to buy CLOTHES or shampoo at Wal Mart.

Clothes there have no style, no panache, no flair. The shampoo products do nothing for your hair. Shampoo should only be bought at a salon.Clang clang clang...

[TheRat]

In other words, Ouellet believes there could be a role for private health-care delivery within the public system.

That's too the left of what the progressives in the House are proposing, which is a public plan with in a private system. Nowhere in the article do they say they want to go to a completely privatized system like what we have now. Seems like Ouellet is proposing something on the order of what the French have. Remember Canadians have a single payer system right now.

[ABQCOWBOY]

My wife buys shampoo for 5 times more then it's worth at a "Salon".

I buy the jumbo bottle or whatever is priced best at Sams Club.

I guess I don't have much style of culture going on either.

May as well go home and drink 4 or 5 beers.

:laugh2:

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I already own parts 1, 2, and 8. Part 3 is memorable because it was the first movie in which Jason donned the hockey mask.

good point, he wore the cloth mask in Part 2. If I remember correctly, he was hanged at the end of Part 3 but then showed himself to the hot girl that he wasn't dead.