I Wanted To Do A Helmuth

[Hostile]

Now and then I like to play online poker. I have some friends that we get together and have a nice game now and then. I enjoy watching it on TV. I think Helmuth is a total putz, but last night I wanted to say some of the stuff he does. I refrained, but I also quit playing and watched a movie to try and calm down. Funny how Patton doesn't really calm you down.

Last night I couldn't sleep and was playing on Yahoo. Here's what happened.

We were 5 handed.

I get dealt Ace of Diamonds and Ace of Hearts.

So I bet when it's my turn (1st bet on Yahoo is always 2 bucks). I got raised twice, so I raised back. It gets all the way up to the max. 1 guy folds. Now we're 4 handed. Everyone else stays in for max on the deal.

Staying in for the max would lead you to believe you're facing some good hands. I was pretty sure no one else had a pair of bullets. But a weaker pair I could see.

The Flop comes down. 6 of spades, 4 of hearts, 8 of diamonds. No flush possible. A 5 and a 7 is a straight, but I can't believe anyone raises to the max pre-Flop with a 5 and a 7 in the hole. That's just stupid if someone did.

If anyone hit trips from a pocket pair there's nothing I can do. If they hit trips they sure bet a small pair. 8 was the high card on the Flop. I'm not sure I go max bet pre-Flop on a pair of 8s. So I am still assuming weaker pairs stayed with me or 2 very high cards, maybe an Ace with a kicker.

I bet again. Bets on the flop are 2 bucks too. I get raised twice again. So I raise and we push it to maximum again. 1 more guy folds. Now 3 handed.

Turn comes down and it's a 3 of clubs. Still in danger from a 5 and a 7, but I still can't believe someone bets max with that in the hole. I also think trips is still unlikely. So I push the action again.

Bets on the turn are 4 bucks per. Once again we keep raising to max bets. I'm thinking each guy has a high pair but are behind my bullets. I am feeling really good about my chances.

River is a 9 of hearts. Max bets all the way. No one folds. Show the cards.

One guy has an 8 and a 7 off suit, heart and spade. He pushed max bets with a pair of 8s hoping for a 5 on the river and when he didn't get it he still believed his 8s were best. He bet max before the flop with that hand. He's a freaking idiot. No other way to explain it.

The winning hand was a 4 of clubs and a 9 of clubs. He slopped out on the River and bet me max bets with a pair of 4s. He's an even bigger idiot who just happened to get uber lucky on the River.

I lost a pot of $261 that I can't believe anyone ever bet on in the first place. Much less pushed to the Max 4 straight betting turns.

In a money game I might have got arrested. I still can't believe that crap.

[lewpac]

Every other guy in the hand was an idiot..............but that's why the river card counts.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard "river rat", or some other term dismissing the river card.

But, if the card didn't count, then lets just not play it. Lets just stop at the turn. Granted, those guys had nothing after the turn, but there's another card coming. Stupid to play it? Yeah. Of course. But that's why Poker is STILL a game of chance. Gambling is what it's called I believe.

I got this one guy...........Has read every Poker book in the world. Believes in all the percentages, all the "rights and wrongs" of the game, knows all the "stragedies" and "science" of Poker. And, he's a chronic loser. Every weekend, the same story...............

"This IDIOT who doesn't know HOW to play POKER (Phil Helmuth) beats me on some bull**** turn or river card. He shoulda' NEVER played THAT hand". Blah, blah, blah...............

But what he doesn't account for, is that there's a REASON it's called a GAMBLE! Because the cards STILL have to come out for you, stragedy or no stradegy.

I play in Vegas probably 3 or 4 times a year. All Weekend. I CAN say that I've never lost money in Vegas playing poker. But, I'm not going to retire playing poker either. I know that there IS something to the science of if, because the Usual suspects are always at the final tables. Mike Madesow, Phil Helmuth, that Guy, etc................They know something that I don't know.

But I usually win at the local game. Because I don't play anything exotic or off the wall. I don't play any hand short of a garaunteed winning hand. I'll sit there for blind after bling after blind if I have to. Sometimes for an hour or two without betting.

The Bullets? Yeah, you got screwed. But it's STILL a game of chance, gambling. Bullets or no bullets..................

[poke]

have you seen the tv piece on the online indian gambling that was not on the up and up ?

cant remember what channel it was but makes you wonder.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

That was you?!?

[peplaw06]

I gave up playing online poker real quick. Too many people will play crap like that and win. It just pisses you off. I lasted about 3 months.

[lewpac]

I gave up playing online poker real quick. Too many people will play crap like that and win. It just pisses you off. I lasted about 3 months.

Yeah, the "on line" poker thing is fraught with a lot of crazy play.

The best games in Vegas are at the MGM Grand, NY-NY, and the Venetian.

The best game in Hawaii is at my house every Friday or Saturday night (or both). Usually, there's 2 to 4 thousand dollars floating around at any given night..................

[Sam I Am]

I used to play on Yahoo, but one night I got so upset I quit playing there.

I had 3 aces twice in a row and lost, heart flush lost, then a full house and lost again. Four straight winnable hands, yet I got beat four straight times by the same guy. Now, I understand some of those hands aren't the strongest, but to get beat like that with those hands four straight times by the same guy has about the same odds as drawing a royal flush.

I recently took my business to facebook. Just avoid the tables with the vulgar kids in it and I find it more enjoyable than Yahoo.

[Sam I Am]

Yeah, the "on line" poker thing is fraught with a lot of crazy play.

The best games in Vegas are at the MGM Grand, NY-NY, and the Venetian.

The best game in Hawaii is at my house every Friday or Saturday night (or both). Usually, there's 2 to 4 thousand dollars floating around at any given night..................

We play at work or with some guys by my house, but we play nickel and dime stuff. I'm just not into real gambling. $10-$20 buy-in just to keep you somewhat honest while we're playing.

[BrAinPaiNt]

A lot of people that play on Yahoo or other FREE poker sites don't care what they bet because they are not really losing any money.

Chances are if those guys were playing with real money they would never bet anywhere close to that and if they did...they would stop after they kept losing on average.

That's why playing for free online is usually not a good poker game because nobody cares and everybody will chase anything hoping to get lucky on the river.

We play, well we used to play, a good deal of quarter poker with a dollar max bet. Just something with the wife and inlaws. And I, and others, will chase cards because we know we will only lose a buck or two at most and for that you can take a risk of getting lucky.

However if we were playing for higher stakes most of us would not chase everything. Chances are we would mostly play tight with the occasional bluff.

[Yeagermeister]

Now and then I like to play online poker. I have some friends that we get together and have a nice game now and then. I enjoy watching it on TV. I think Helmuth is a total putz, but last night I wanted to say some of the stuff he does. I refrained, but I also quit playing and watched a movie to try and calm down. Funny how Patton doesn't really calm you down.

Last night I couldn't sleep and was playing on Yahoo. Here's what happened.

We were 5 handed.

I get dealt Ace of Diamonds and Ace of Hearts.



You lost me after that. :laugh1:

[Hostile]

I gave up playing online poker real quick. Too many people will play crap like that and win. It just pisses you off. I lasted about 3 months.Exactly right. There's no refining of your skills because there's no money on the line. It's the least real version of poker ever.

I am probably done playing online after that.

[Sam I Am]

Exactly right. There's no refining of your skills because there's no money on the line. It's the least real version of poker ever.

I am probably done playing online after that.

Actually, a skilled player will beat those guys too. In the end, it should be easier to take their money than another skilled players money. (even if it's virtual chips) It just takes more patience at times and zero patience when you've got a great hand.

[Hostile]

Actually, a skilled player will beat those guys too. In the end, it should be easier to take their money than another skilled players money. (even if it's virtual chips) It just takes more patience at times and zero patience when you've got a great hand.I win a hell of a lot more than I lose. I just am talking about a bad beat like that. They had no hands and played like they at least had something. I gave them way too much credit to put them on a weaker pair. I've actually played some very good hands on Yahoo and enjoyed myself. But that is about as crap as it gets. If I had lost to three 4s after the flop I could have handled it. I probably don't go max bet on a pair of 4s, but someone else may have a policy of betting any pair. It's the sheer fact that he had nothing until the River that galls me.

The only skill shown was mine and the 2 folds. The other 2 guys are complete morons.

[Sam I Am]

I win a hell of a lot more than I lose. I just am talking about a bad beat like that. They had no hands and played like they at least had something. I gave them way too much credit to put them on a weaker pair. I've actually played some very good hands on Yahoo and enjoyed myself. But that is about as crap as it gets. If I had lost to three 4s after the flop I could have handled it. I probably don't go max bet on a pair of 4s, but someone else may have a policy of betting any pair. It's the sheer fact that he had nothing until the River that galls me.

The only skill shown was mine and the 2 folds. The other 2 guys are complete morons.

It happens. I've pulled flushes, straights, and boats on the river before. Sometimes it takes guts to stay in, but everything has to be right to do it. If the raises are rolling and I'm looking for an inside straight and all thats left is the river card, I'm probably folding before it drops. Of course, I'm quite pissed off when my card falls after I've folded! :mad:

The one thing I learned when playing morons is don't bluff! They will call it everytime. :laugh2: Thats what makes beating them so easy. When you do have a hand, you wipe them out.

[peplaw06]

It happens. I've pulled flushes, straights, and boats on the river before. Sometimes it takes guts to stay in, but everything has to be right to do it. If the raises are rolling and I'm looking for an inside straight and all thats left is the river card, I'm probably folding before it drops. Of course, I'm quite pissed off when my card falls after I've folded! :mad:

The one thing I learned when playing morons is don't bluff! They will call it everytime. :laugh2: Thats what makes beating them so easy. When you do have a hand, you wipe them out.

There's no such thing as bluffing in online FREE poker. Like Hos said, he had the best hand BY FAR until the last card. Yeah that happens, but when it's fake money, they'll stay in with 9-4 offsuit against your bullets, because they don't care. They've got nothing to lose. That's not poker. When you have nothing to lose, it's not gambling.

[Hostile]

It happens. I've pulled flushes, straights, and boats on the river before. Sometimes it takes guts to stay in, but everything has to be right to do it. If the raises are rolling and I'm looking for an inside straight and all thats left is the river card, I'm probably folding before it drops. Of course, I'm quite pissed off when my card falls after I've folded! :mad:

The one thing I learned when playing morons is don't bluff! They will call it everytime. :laugh2: Thats what makes beating them so easy. When you do have a hand, you wipe them out.I've slopped out on the River too. Anyone who has played a long time has. I'm not even talking about that.

You have a 4 and a 9 pre flop. How hard are you going to push that if I am not biting? Are you going to push a bluff all in if you raise me and I raise back? If so, then 90% of the time I am going to take your money. 5% of the time I am going to fold if I have nothing, and 5% of the time you will slop out and win.

To stay in for 4 bets and go max bets every time only to slop out burns my panties.

The other guy have an 8/7 off suit was every bit as bad. The problem with online poker is nothing is at stake so it is fake bravado and luck only. There's no skill in betting all you can and lucking out on the River.

I respect if someone plays a hand well and beats me. I can't respect when someone plays stupidly and does.

I mentioned Helmuth because of his Poker Brat persona. Last year he was in a hand against a guy and he said "I couldn't have played queen ten this well could I?" Those 2 cards would give him a straight on the flop. It just so happened those were the exact 2 cards of the guy he was in the hand against had. So Helmuth told him that the queen ten is a good play, and he also basically tipped his hand that he did not have those 2 cards. Then when the guy wins the hand Helmuth was furious that the guy called his raise from the blind with a queen ten. He went off on a rant that made him look truly ridiculous.

In that case he had no point. Which is often the case with Helmuth. If someone played this scenario live against him he would be indicted for double murder.

[Doomsday]

AA is worthless in low stakes LIMIT poker unless you flop a set.

Once the flop comes, both the 49 and 87 are correct to call there is $40 in the pot and the 87 is going to win it 35% of the time and the 49 about 18% and they are getting 20 to 1 on a $2 call. I could even see a raise from the 87, he still has the right odds to make it a profitable raise, even if it is 4 bet on the flop it would be $8 to win $80 which he will do 35% of the time. That said they should be just check calling the flop and turn.

[Temo]

A lot of people that play on Yahoo or other FREE poker sites don't care what they bet because they are not really losing any money.



This. Hey Lewpac, I used to play over at MGM grand in vegas, you play 5-10 there at all?

[big dog cowboy]

A lot of people that play on Yahoo or other FREE poker sites don't care what they bet because they are not really losing any money.

I've never played on-line, but I have heard that is very true.

[Hostile]

There's no such thing as bluffing in online FREE poker. Like Hos said, he had the best hand BY FAR until the last card. Yeah that happens, but when it's fake money, they'll stay in with 9-4 offsuit against your bullets, because they don't care. They've got nothing to lose. That's not poker. When you have nothing to lose, it's not gambling.That is my whole rant right there. I was playing poker. They were wasting my time.

[SLATEmosphere]

I play online poker on Pokerstars with real money and I'm up a grand. Started with 200$!. I don't even touch fake money poker because the play couldnt be more polar opposite. When your playing 75$ buy ins the intelligence of players suddenly goes up. I love it.

I've gotten some absolute terrible beats that made me throw my chair against the wall. Went straight though the wall.LOL

I played a heads up tourny with 100$ on the line. My hand was dealt Ace of diamonds and King of Diamonds. I bet.He raises. I call. Flop comes up 7 of Diamonds, 5 of Diamonds and 9 of Spades. I'm feeling good with my possible nut flush. He bets. I raise.He calls. Turn card comes up 2 of Diamonds. Got my nut Flush on the turn!!. I bet high. He raises. I go all in.He calls. The computer shows me that his cards are 7 of Clubs and 2 of hearts.

River comes up 2 of Clubs. He hit 2 consecutive 2's. Full House. Beats my nut Flush. I couldn't play for a week after that.

[Doomsday]

Two of the worse bad beats Ive ever taken both happened in the same day.

One was playing Omaha. I had 7789 on a flop of 456 vs a guy with AK66. I flopped the absolute nuts, but he had outs the turn was a 7, making as big of a favorite as you can be. I still had the nut straight but now I also I had over set to his 3 6s. Of coarse the river was another 6 and I went broke.

About 2 hours later I had JJ in hold'em and was playing heads up vs a guy with 99. The flop came J23. I bet out and called. The turn was a 9 we both ended up all-in and wouldnt you know it the river is another 9. I lost to one outers twice in one session, pretty sickening when you consider he had like .1% chance on winning the hand on the flop.

[Temo]

I play online poker on Pokerstars with real money and I'm up a grand. Started with 200$!. I don't even touch fake money poker because the play couldnt be more polar opposite. When your playing 75$ buy ins the intelligence of players suddenly goes up. I love it.

I've gotten some absolute terrible beats that made me throw my chair against the wall. Went straight though the wall.LOL

I played a heads up tourny with 100$ on the line. My hand was dealt Ace of diamonds and King of Diamonds. I bet.He raises. I call. Flop comes up 7 of Diamonds, 5 of Diamonds and 9 of Spades. I'm feeling good with my possible nut flush. He bets. I raise.He calls. Turn card comes up 2 of Diamonds. Got my nut Flush on the turn!!. I bet high. He raises. I go all in.He calls. The computer shows me that his cards are 7 of Clubs and 2 of hearts.

River comes up 2 of Clubs. He hit 2 consecutive 2's. Full House. Beats my nut Flush. I couldn't play for a week after that.

I hate to say this without knowing the pot/implied odds the whole way, but his play appears to be perfectly fine.

[FloridaRob]

I used to think it was just the limit but I have seen one outers in No Limit games that kill me inside but I have learned to control my emotions now. I play a lot of no limit poker and have lost $2000 on one hand on a one outer.

At the time you want the call. You don't want them to fold. I had to learn that if I have no problem taking their money when they make a stupid play and lose, I can't pull a Helmuth when they win one.

Also, I will never play online poker again. Too many wierd things happen consistently online that rarely happens in real games. Set over set over set happens a lot online. It rarely happesn in a real game.

[Dawgs0916]

I used to think it was just the limit but I have seen one outers in No Limit games that kill me inside but I have learned to control my emotions now. I play a lot of no limit poker and have lost $2000 on one hand on a one outer.

At the time you want the call. You don't want them to fold. I had to learn that if I have no problem taking their money when they make a stupid play and lose, I can't pull a Helmuth when they win one.

Also, I will never play online poker again. Too many wierd things happen consistently online that rarely happens in real games. Set over set over set happens a lot online. It rarely happesn in a real game.

Welcome to my world. I kept reading Full Tilt had a good flop rate, and was the most legit site there was.

I lost 270 dollars, throughout the whole summer. I know thats nothing to you, but to me that is half a month's rent for me.

Never go on a poker binge after getting dumped lmao.

[FloridaRob]

Two of the worse bad beats Ive ever taken both happened in the same day.

One was playing Omaha. I had 7789 on a flop of 456 vs a guy with AK66. I flopped the absolute nuts, but he had outs the turn was a 7, making as big of a favorite as you can be. I still had the nut straight but now I also I had over set to his 3 6s. Of coarse the river was another 6 and I went broke.

About 2 hours later I had JJ in hold'em and was playing heads up vs a guy with 99. The flop came J23. I bet out and called. The turn was a 9 we both ended up all-in and wouldnt you know it the river is another 9. I lost to one outers twice in one session, pretty sickening when you consider he had like .1% chance on winning the hand on the flop.

those are not bad beats, those are just horrible luck. If either of those happened to me I would kindly get up from the table and live to play another day. Some days, whatever card you need to get there will get there and you sense it and know it. Other days you know that the one card to get to beat you will get there too. Those are the days you have to minimize your losses.

[Doomsday]

those are not bad beats, those are just horrible luck. If either of those happened to me I would kindly get up from the table and live to play another day. Some days, whatever card you need to get there will get there and you sense it and know it. Other days you know that the one card to get to beat you will get there too. Those are the days you have to minimize your losses.

No argument there, sometimes those days turn into weeks. I took me a while to figure it out but eventually I learned that there are going to be big swings, you just have to be able to stay focused and keep making good decisions. It was a hard lesson to learn though. My worse streak was losing 8 times in a row with AA vs either KK, QQ or JJ when I was getting people allin preflop. Eventually you realize the odds are going to even out and you might win the next 20 of those situations. Still frustrating!

[FloridaRob]

doomsday, I know it goes in circles but it seems my bad luck has a much bigger loop. One suck out I did have was a few months ago, I have pocket AA with about $1200 in front of me. The guy behind me at the button has me covered. It is a 2-5 no limit so I raise it to $70. He smooth calls. I am real leary of him but his calling lets me know he has a good hand. I figured if he had KK he might have reraised but he just calls. Guy under the Gun calls too so already building s big pot. The guy under the gun has about $600 in front of him.

the flop comes K-6-3. Guy under the gun bets $200.00, I raise to $600 to put the guy all in and the guy behind me hesitates for a second then says all in. It is all my chips. I hesitate for about 10 seconds and talked my self into the fact he has A-K so I should still be in the lead. I call. Everybody turns up their cards. the guy in 1st position has pocket 6 flopped middle set, the guy behind me did not have A_K but had pocket Kings. I felt sick. There was only one Ace in teh deck left. Turn is a brick and the river is tada- the case Ace. They heard me yahoo across the casino. Over $3000 in the pot was mine. The guy that lost threw his chips at me and cursed me like there was no tomorrow. I did not care. It was one time I crapped out on somebody for a good size pot.

winning a pot like that the way I won it is almost better than Sex. Well at my age, I think it might even be better.

[Doomsday]

Good story, not sure why the guy with KK is pissed at you. Hard to play your hand any differently, he did a good job trapping with his KK and got unlucky. I always hate people who get mad when both people play the hand correctly and one guy happens to get lucky.

I think we all feel like our loop is bigger, that is what makes it so hard to just keep making tough decisions. It is hard to block out the losses and not let them influence your decision making, I struggle with that every time I play.

[Hostile]

Good story, not sure why the guy with KK is pissed at you. Hard to play your hand any differently, he did a good job trapping with his KK and got unlucky. I always hate people who get mad when both people play the hand correctly and one guy happens to get lucky.

I think we all feel like our loop is bigger, that is what makes it so hard to just keep making tough decisions. It is hard to block out the losses and not let them influence your decision making, I struggle with that every time I play.I agree with every word here.

We should set up a small league to play with some members from this thread as the only invitees sometime. be fun to play and shoot the crap.

[Doomsday]

I agree with every word here.

We should set up a small league to play with some members from this thread as the only invitees sometime. be fun to play and shoot the crap.

I would be down for doing something like that.