Madonna - Booed for opinions on Gypsies

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gEccvm4V2OSMe35MKuqkT39HbxvAD9ABA4VG0

Madonna booed in Bucharest for defending Gypsies

By ALINA WOLFE MURRAY (AP) – 6 hours ago

BUCHAREST, Romania — At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers.

The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe.

Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent.

Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies.

"There is generally widespread resentment against Gypsies in Eastern Europe. They have historically been the underdog," Radu Motoc, an official with the Soros Foundation Romania, said Thursday.

Roma, or Gypsies, are a nomadic ethnic group believed to have their roots in the Indian subcontinent. They live mostly in southern and eastern Europe, but hundreds of thousands have migrated west over the past few decades in search of jobs and better living conditions.

Romania has the largest number of Roma in the region. Some say the population could be as high as 2 million, although official data put it at 500,000.

Until the 19th century, Romanian Gypsies were slaves, and they've gotten a mixed response ever since: While discrimination is widespread, many East Europeans are enthusiastic about Gypsy music and dance, which they embrace as part of the region's cultural heritage.

That explains why the Roma musicians and a dancer who had briefly joined Madonna onstage got enthusiastic applause. And it also may explain why some in the crowd turned on Madonna when she paused during the two-hour show — a stop on her worldwide "Sticky and Sweet" tour — to touch on their plight.

"It has been brought to my attention ... that there is a lot of discrimination against Romanies and Gypsies in general in Eastern Europe," she said. "It made me feel very sad."

Thousands booed and jeered her.

A few cheered when she added: "We don't believe in discrimination ... we believe in freedom and equal rights for everyone." But she got more boos when she mentioned discrimination against homosexuals and others.

"I jeered her because it seemed false what she was telling us. What business does she have telling us these things?" said Ionut Dinu, 23.

Madonna did not react and carried on with her concert, held near the hulking palace of the late communist dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Her New York-based publicist did not immediately return an e-mail message sent by The Associated Press on Thursday seeking comment.

"It's contradictory: Romanians watch Gypsy soap operas, they like Gypsy music and go to Gypsy concerts," said Damian Draghici, a Grammy Award-winning Roma musician who has performed with James Brown and Joe Cocker.

"But there has been a wave of aggression against Roma people in Italy, Hungary and Romania, which shows me something is not OK," he told the AP in an interview. "The politicians have to do something about it. People have to be educated not to be prejudiced. All people are equal, and that is the message politicians must give."

Nearly one in two of Europe's estimated 12 million Roma claimed to have suffered an act of discrimination over the past 12 months, according to a recent report by the Vienna-based EU Fundamental Rights Agency. The group says Roma face "overt discrimination" in housing, health care and education.

Many do not have official identification, which means they cannot get social benefits, are undereducated and struggle to find decent jobs.

Roma children are more likely to drop out of school than their peers from other ethnic groups. Many Romanians label Gypsies as thieves, and many are outraged by those who beg or commit petty crimes in Western Europe, believing they spoil Romania's image abroad.

In May 2007, Romanian President Traian Basescu was heard to call a Romanian journalist a "stinky Gypsy" during a conversation with his wife. Romania's anti-discrimination board criticized Basescu, who later apologized.

Human rights activists say the attacks in Hungary, which began in July 2008, may be tied to that country's economic crisis and the rising popularity of far-right vigilantes angered by a rash of petty thefts and other so-called "Gypsy crime." Last week, police arrested four suspects in a nightclub in the eastern city of Debrecen.

Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Slovakia also have been criticized for widespread bias against Roma.

Madonna's outrage touched a nerve in Romania, but it seems doubtful it will change anything, said the Soros Foundation's Motoc.

"Madonna is a pop star. She is not an expert on interethnic relations," he said.

AP Writers Alison Mutler in Bucharest and William J. Kole in Vienna contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

------------

No question, to me, Madonna probably isn't the ideal representetive for Human Rights.

Having said this, it strikes me odd that we, as a Nation have so embraced so many European ideas and views. Yet, for the most part, Europe finds it very easy to critacise America for almost everything we do. However, if an American does the same to them, they look down on us.

I don't know. Perhaps Daschoo can help me gain a more clear understanding of this. I clearly don't get it.

[Doomsday101]

Entertainers tend to think they are more important than they really are.

[Temo]

I've never really known who the hell gypsies are, other than what disney movies have tried to tell me when I was younger.

[Temo]

Entertainers tend to think they are more important than they really are.

Most people think they and their opinions are more important than they really are. (See: most posters on political forums, haha). Celebrities just get a bigger microphone to express their opinions, so it's like shining a flashlight on their absurdity.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Is she wrong?

Not saying she is or is not. Just asking a question here.

[masomenos]

I didn't even know that Gypsies still existed.

[Doomsday101]

Most people think they and their opinions are more important than they really are. (See: most posters on political forums, haha). Celebrities just get a bigger microphone to express their opinions, so it's like shining a flashlight on their absurdity.

I'm not charging you money for my opinion. :lmao:

[TheCount]

I've never really known who the hell gypsies are, other than what disney movies have tried to tell me when I was younger.

Everything I know of Gypsies, I learned from Snatch.

[Doomsday101]

Is she wrong?

Not saying she is or is not. Just asking a question here.

I think it is an improper forum to lecture people. I would think people bought tickets to see a concert not the wisdom of a dingy blond who can barely live her own life.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think it is an improper forum to lecture people. I would think people bought tickets to see a concert not the wisdom of a dingy blond who can barely live her own life.

No question Dooms, and would not even consider contesting that point.

But, is she wrong on the issue at hand? Is her point wrong?

[arglebargle]

I think it is an improper forum to lecture people. I would think people bought tickets to see a concert not the wisdom of a dingy blond who can barely live her own life.

While it might not be the proper forum to lecture people, you are dead wrong on the dingy blonde. She's a very accomplished businesswoman who has fairly adroitly managed her career and has parleyed her musical fame into a number of different business ventures. Your are confusing the performance image with the actual person. Madonna is not a creation of some backroom svengali. She got where she is by her own sweat and brains.

[arglebargle]

Gypsies are the favorite ethnic scapegoat in various regions, mostly Eastern Europe. Some of it is based on real behavior, some not. IIRC Gypsies (Rom) were the second largest group to die in the WWII concentration camps.

Your basic wiki link on them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Oh, and Snatch was a great movie! Though the English Tinkers/Gypsies are somewhat removed from the main Gypsy lines.

[Phrozen Phil]

No question Dooms, and would not even consider contesting that point.

But, is she wrong on the issue at hand? Is her point wrong?

The Roma were among the victims of the Nazi holocaust in WWII. There's more information on various sources,(Google Gypsies) but they have had their problems in Europe, where thay are generally viewed as as quasi-criminal in some quarters. I agree that an entertainment venue in Eastern Europe may not have been the best choice to raise the issue, but there are problems with immigration. Not that you guys have ever had to deal with that.:rolleyes:

[bbgun]

Shut up and sing.

http://www.123imagehost.com/uploads/235-844-banspanking.jpg

[CowboyWay]

I don't know if she's wrong or right, but nobody beats Travolta running around telling everyone to conserve, and live a green lifestyle, all the while he's fueling his private 747 to take only himself from NY to LA.

I've always held alot of contempt for celebrities who get a particular forum (like an awards show), and feel as though they can preach to me thier political views.

You are an actor. You're last job was probably the dishwasher at the Waffle Hut. Why do I care about your opinion? Shut up, take your award, say thank you, and be on your way.

[trickblue]

I would be interested to know her stance on tramps and thieves as well...

[arglebargle]

:lmao2:

[bbgun]

Unless it's FARM AID or LIVE AID, I don't expect to be ambushed with a political message when I go to a concert. She brazenly disrespected her audience.

[arglebargle]

Unless you are an overtly politcal band or entertainer, it's usually counterproductive. You are there to entertain, and create a festive, exciting, and memorable experiance.

Of course, Madonna probably doesn't have to worry much about the cashflow effects of this on her overall portfolio.

[trickblue]

Unless you are an overtly politcal band or entertainer, it's usually counterproductive. You are there to entertain, and create a festive, exciting, and memorable experiance.

Of course, Madonna probably doesn't have to worry much about the cashflow effects of this on her overall portfolio.

Exactly... shut up and sing...

[JBond]

Shut up and sing.

http://www.123imagehost.com/uploads/235-844-banspanking.jpg

lol. I'm emailing this to my wife at work. It will be the first thing in her inbox tomorrow.

Does anyone know what happened to the Dixie Chicks?

[daschoo]

I don't know. Perhaps Daschoo can help me gain a more clear understanding of this. I clearly don't get it.

to be honest my knowledge of romania extends to that their capital is bucharest and which soccer teams celtic can be drawn against in the europa league this season.

i would agree with the general concesus of being pretty pissed off if i'd paid money to go to a concert only to have political opinions rammed down my throat (U2 would be the exception because you know to expect that). but then i'd be pretty pissed off if i'd paid money to go see madonna in the first place.

[WarC]

Entertainers tend to think they are more important than they really are.

Quoted for truth.

[TheRat]

No question, to me, Madonna probably isn't the ideal representetive for Human Rights.

Having said this, it strikes me odd that we, as a Nation have so embraced so many European ideas and views. Yet, for the most part, Europe finds it very easy to critacise America for almost everything we do. However, if an American does the same to them, they look down on us.

I don't know. Perhaps Daschoo can help me gain a more clear understanding of this. I clearly don't get it.
Eastern Europe and Western Europe are very different culturally. Don't confuse the two.

[TheRat]

Exactly... shut up and sing...
I don't think that statement is very bright. The more attention that can be brought to oppressed people's around the world the better off we all are. What she did can only help the Roma, whether you like her personally or not, it was a noble thing she did.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Eastern Europe and Western Europe are very different culturally. Don't confuse the two.

I doubt you've been to either.

Never the less, your statement is irrelevant. Re-read and get back to me.

Thank you.

[TheRat]

Entertainers tend to think they are more important than they really are.
People take notice of what she says (as evidence by you commenting on it) and she is using her platform to bring attention to an oppressed minority in Eastern Europe, which many people in America don't know about. How is that bad?

[zrinkill]

I doubt you've been to either.

Never the less, your statement is irrelevant. Re-read and get back to me.

Thank you.

:muttley:

[TheRat]

to be honest my knowledge of romania extends to that their capital is bucharest and which soccer teams celtic can be drawn against in the europa league this season.

i would agree with the general concesus of being pretty pissed off if i'd paid money to go to a concert only to have political opinions rammed down my throat (U2 would be the exception because you know to expect that). but then i'd be pretty pissed off if i'd paid money to go see madonna in the first place.
Why are you siding with people who oppress gypsies? Those people at that Madonna concert deserved to berated for being bigoted scum, no matter who was doing the berating.

[TheRat]

I doubt you've been to either.

I've been to Western Europe.


Never the less, your statement is irrelevant. Re-read and get back to me.

What's your point. You just said Europe in general, and the article itself discussed almost exclusively Eastern Europe.


Thank you.

De nada.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I've been to Western Europe.


What's your point. You just said Europe in general, and the article itself discussed almost exclusively Eastern Europe.



De nada.

I asked about America and why we break our necks (Liberals) to try and be more like them when clearly, they do not like us, do not respect us and have their own cultural issues.

You pointed out the difference between Eastern Block and Western Europe. Way to nail the subject matter.

Try again.

[TheRat]

I asked about America and why we break our necks (Liberals) to try and be more like them when clearly, they do not like us, do not respect us and have their own cultural issues.

You pointed out the difference between Eastern Block and Western Europe. Way to nail the subject matter.

Try again.
Um actually the whole article was about Eastern Europe's oppression of the gypsies. Then you said:

Having said this, it strikes me odd that we, as a Nation have so embraced so many European ideas and views. Yet, for the most part, Europe finds it very easy to critacise America for almost everything we do. However, if an American does the same to them, they look down on us.

How is Western Europe relevant at all to the article you posted?

Try again.

[Hoofbite]

Shut up and do whatever it is you call singing.

http://www.123imagehost.com/uploads/235-844-banspanking.jpg

Little fix there.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Um actually the whole article was about Eastern Europe's oppression of the gypsies. Then you said:

Having said this, it strikes me odd that we, as a Nation have so embraced so many European ideas and views. Yet, for the most part, Europe finds it very easy to critacise America for almost everything we do. However, if an American does the same to them, they look down on us.

How is Western Europe relevant at all to the article you posted?

Try again.

OK, I don't do stupid Rat.

Clearly you have no answer to the question I asked. Just leave it alone.

[TheRat]

OK, I don't do stupid Rat.

Clearly you have no answer to the question I asked. Just leave it alone.
Liberals want to adopt certain things (not all) from Europe because they work. Whether they like us or not is not relevant, however Europeans have had a much more favorable view of America as of late so your premise in that regard is not valid. So there is my answer.

Anyhow, back to the point I was making. Within the same post in which you posted an article about how Eastern Europeans oppress gypsies you talk about Europeans looking down their noses at us when they are just as bad. You clearly mixed up Western and Eastern Europeans, which is why your post didn't make any sense whatsoever.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Liberals want to adopt certain things (not all) from Europe because they work. Whether they like us or not is not relevant, however Europeans have had a much more favorable view of America as of late so your premise in that regard is not valid. So there is my answer.

Anyhow, back to the point I was making. Within the same post in which you posted an article about how Eastern Europeans oppress gypsies you talk about Europeans looking down their noses at us when they are just as bad. You clearly mixed up Western and Eastern Europeans, which is why your post didn't make any sense whatsoever.

I didn't mix anything up. I simply asked a question. You made the distinction between East and West.

As for the things that work, well, once I see those things, I'll get back to you on how much I like them or not.

[TheRat]

I didn't mix anything up. I simply asked a question. You made the distinction between East and West.

Your question is suspiciously irrelevant to the article you posted.

[JBond]

Liberals want to adopt certain things (not all) from Europe because they work. Whether they like us or not is not relevant, however Europeans have had a much more favorable view of America as of late so your premise in that regard is not valid. So there is my answer.

Anyhow, back to the point I was making. Within the same post in which you posted an article about how Eastern Europeans oppress gypsies you talk about Europeans looking down their noses at us when they are just as bad. You clearly mixed up Western and Eastern Europeans, which is why your post didn't make any sense whatsoever.

What in the hell are you talking about? European models work but the people who are suffering under them want them?

[trickblue]

I don't think that statement is very bright. The more attention that can be brought to oppressed people's around the world the better off we all are. What she did can only help the Roma, whether you like her personally or not, it was a noble thing she did.

Are you brain damaged... or just dense... that was a DIG...

For the record... I am, and have always been "green"... and I guarantee you much more than you...

All this... and still a conservative...

Now... if you want to talk bright... let's go mother****er...

[ABQCOWBOY]

Are you brain damaged... or just dense... that was a DIG...

For the record... I am, and have always been "green"... and I guarantee you much more than you...

All this... and still a conservative...

Now... if you want to talk bright... let's go mother****er...

Going out with a bang huh?.....


:laugh2:

[ABQCOWBOY]

Your question is suspiciously irrelevant to the article you posted.

Yes, if I would have changed my user name and then posted it, it would have been Sinister.

:laugh2:

[trickblue]

Going out with a bang huh?.....


:laugh2:

There are different factions... those that care about their beliefs... and those that care about party affiliation...

Rat is a party guy... and a dumb mother****er in that respect...

He isn't an intellectual idiot by any means... but he is an idiot in regards to party affiliation...

I'm liking this filter now... :D

[ScipioCowboy]

Your question is suspiciously irrelevant to the article you posted.

Pot. Kettle.

You do understand this is a message board, right? Threads constantly go off in directions that are only tangentially related.

[CowboyDan]

...right, well back to the point......I think it's not only acceptable, but also a good idea for celebs to have an opinion on things because they have an audience and may just open some people's eyes to things they otherwise wouldn't know are happening in the world. Madonna, Bono, Bruce Springsteen, John Lennon, Neil Young, Pearl Jam, John Mellencamp, Paul Simon, Pink Floyd, Rage Against the Machine, to name a small few who are quite vocal about how they view the world......hell they've traveled it and have seen alot of stuff first hand in this country and others that most people haven't seen. Now do you have to agree with it? No. But should they be able to voice their opinions? I think so. What a meaningless existence if you shut down your true feelings on a subject when speaking up might just make a difference. To me, that's a life wasted.

[TheCount]

I asked about America and why we break our necks (Liberals) to try and be more like them when clearly, they do not like us, do not respect us and have their own cultural issues.

You pointed out the difference between Eastern Block and Western Europe. Way to nail the subject matter.

Try again.

I know a few "europeans", and saying "they do not like us" is a HUGE generalization. Most everyone I met when I took a semester abroad during college liked the US and were quite nice to me and I do them.

I don't think anyone is breaking their necks to try to be like them, but pretending you live in a bubble won't help either, it's important to take the temperature of the world.

[TheRat]

There are different factions... those that care about their beliefs... and those that care about party affiliation...

Rat is a party guy... and a dumb mother****er in that respect...

He isn't an intellectual idiot by any means... but he is an idiot in regards to party affiliation...

I'm liking this filter now... :D
I said that statement wasn't bright. I didn't say you weren't bright. I hope you can show me the same respect.

[TheRat]

Pot. Kettle.

You do understand this is a message board, right? Threads constantly go off in directions that are only tangentially related.
It was not only within the same post, but it was the original post.

[zrinkill]

Pot. Kettle.

You do understand this is a message board, right?

Be careful ...... suddenly 3 or 4 "new" usernames may show up to agree with him against you.

[daschoo]

Why are you siding with people who oppress gypsies? Those people at that Madonna concert deserved to berated for being bigoted scum, no matter who was doing the berating.

i agree to an extent. i'm not saying gypsies should be victimised. what i'm saying is that as a performer in front of people who have paid over the odds to see you perform you would maybe be better sticking to performing and then make your political points on tv/newspapers/blogs.

[TheRat]

i agree to an extent. i'm not saying gypsies should be victimised. what i'm saying is that as a performer in front of people who have paid over the odds to see you perform you would maybe be better sticking to performing and then make your political points on tv/newspapers/blogs.
Why do you care so much about bigots not getting their money's worth?

[daschoo]

Why do you care so much about bigots not getting their money's worth?

so every single person at that concert was a bigot that deserved to have their expensive night ruined?

[Doomsday101]

People take notice of what she says (as evidence by you commenting on it) and she is using her platform to bring attention to an oppressed minority in Eastern Europe, which many people in America don't know about. How is that bad?

It is her concert she can do what she wants however for many people they buy tickets to see a show not get a political lecture from a woman who can barely run her own life. So don't be shocked when these entertainers get booed off the stage when they do it

[TheRat]

so every single person at that concert was a bigot that deserved to have their expensive night ruined?
If you were a bigot you night would be ruined by Madonna pointing out that you are a bigot. If you are not a bigot and support an end to discrimination among gypsies, how would your night be ruined by what she said? That doesn't make any sense.

[TheRat]

It is her concert she can do what she wants however for many people they buy tickets to see a show not get a political lecture from a woman who can barely run her own life. So don't be shocked when these entertainers get booed off the stage when they do it
If someone boos an entertainer off stage for bringing attention to bigotry then that person is probably a bigot, so they deserve to have their night ruined.

[Doomsday101]

If you were a bigot you night would be ruined by Madonna pointing out that you are a bigot. If you are not a bigot and support an end to discrimination among gypsies, how would your night be ruined by what she said? That doesn't make any sense.

People believe or not pay money to be entertained not lectured. Again it is her concert she can do whatever she wants the people who paid their money also have a right to boo the bubble head off stage for turning a night they expected to be entertained into a political rally

[Doomsday101]

If someone boos an entertainer off stage for bringing attention to bigotry then that person is probably a bigot, so they deserve to have their night ruined.

And she deserves to be booed, they do not depend on her to make a living on the other hand she does depend on an audience to make hers. I'm sorry if you think Madonna is the voice of the people she is nothing but an entertainer

[daschoo]

If you were a bigot you night would be ruined by Madonna pointing out that you are a bigot. If you are not a bigot and support an end to discrimination among gypsies, how would your night be ruined by what she said? That doesn't make any sense.

say you go to the opera. during the show they break off from it to start talking about a devisive subject that you personally agree with. the mood of the crowd turns nasty as some start to boo the performers and others start arguing with those that are booing. would you not be a little annoyed that your entertainment which you have paid a considerable amount for has been marred? would you not be a little confused as to why the opera had chosen to tackle a devisive issue unexpectadly in front of an audience who have paid to see their show?

[TheRat]

say you go to the opera. during the show they break off from it to start talking about a devisive subject that you personally agree with. the mood of the crowd turns nasty as some start to boo the performers and others start arguing with those that are booing. would you not be a little annoyed that your entertainment which you have paid a considerable amount for has been marred? would you not be a little confused as to why the opera had chosen to tackle a devisive issue unexpectadly in front of an audience who have paid to see their show?
No I wouldn't be mad. Because bigotry is a serious problem, and it is more important for attention to be brought to that subject than for me to be entertained for a couple of hours.