How do we rebuild the Offensive Line

[ravidubey]

POSITION/ISSUES

Left Tackle
Starter: Flozell Adams.
Grade: B
The Hotel has been good but the quickest pass rushers can break around him at times. Flo's slower feet, enormous size, his college playing position, and even his better left-ear hearing suggest he's a better fit at RT. However he's pulling left tackle money and thus he and his agent may outwardly maintain that he's a left tackle.

Depth: Kurt Vollers, Torrin Tucker, Jacob Rogers.
Grade: C-
Thank the Lord Flozell has been so durable! Vollers starts at RT so you can't really qualify him as depth and Tucker's apparent slide and Rogers' lack of PT make this a very shaky position. Rogers may have been a solid college LT, but his total inability to play ahead of Vollers and Tucker combined with his nagging injuries suggest he isn't worth his 2nd round grade. Compare for example with the rookie progress of Jumbo Elliot, another Parcells' 2nd round OT (back in 1988), and things looks even worse. Jacob Rogers has a lot to prove in the 2005 offseason.

Left Tackle Overall grade: B-

Left Guard
Starter: Larry Allen
Grade: A-
Allen regained his strength, power, and legs in 2004, and for a while during Julius Jones' return you could see his passion and ability to dominate and take over the offense rekindled. Allen's only real downside projecting into 2005 is his age and whether the potential in the Cowboy offense can re-ignite this future HOFer's passion.

Depth: Tyson Walter, Matt Lehr
Grade: B-
Walter and Lehr have managed to stick around and even remain on the active roster which says alot about BP's faith in them. Unfortunately these guys are like a spare from a Honda Civic compared with the starter. Should Allen be unavailable, neither backup offers any range or even a changeup in ability beyond fresh legs. Fortunately again, Big Larry is so durable.

Left Guard Overall grade: B+


Center
Starter: Al Johnson
Grade: B+
The only knocks on Johnson really would be inexperience and maybe a lack of power. Johnson is proving to have been worth a 2003 2nd round choice.

Depth: Tyson Walter, Matt Lehr
Grade: A
Both are former starters at this position and that helps termendously.

Center Overall grade: B+

Right Guard
Starter: Andre Gurode
Grade: D+
It's too bad the OL has to have two sides. Gurode flashed talent in 2003, but has been inconsistent and often awful since then. Maybe it's coordination wit a nigh rookie in Johnson and the player of the week at RT, but Andre has to be considered a bust at this point. Parcells said he wouldn't let Gurode fail, but unless there's magic during the 2005 offseason he's about to become a liar in this case.

Depth: Matt Lehr, Ben Noll
Grade: B-
Personally I'm holding out hope that Stephen Peterson (on IR) provides quality depth or even starts next year. Noll is a complete mystery, otherwise see left guard writeup.

Right guard overall grade: D

Right Tackle
Starter: Kurt Vollers (wow)
Grade: D-
How is this possible? Dallas knew they needed help here but after some initial misfortune in FA, the Cowboys looked solely to the draft to solve this position. Rogers' to say the least has been one of 2004's big disappointments.

Depth: Jacob Rogers, Torrin Tucker
Grade: B-
See above.

Right Tackle overall grade: F

Right Tackle overall grade: C

I say find the best offensive lineman available in free agency and make him a starter. Then continue to address the OL in the draft.

Any specific thoughts?

[MichaelWinicki]

POSITION/ISSUES

Left Tackle
Starter: Flozell Adams.
Grade: B
The Hotel has been good but the quickest pass rushers can break around him at times. Flo's slower feet, enormous size, his college playing position, and even his better left-ear hearing suggest he's a better fit at RT. However he's pulling left tackle money and thus he and his agent may outwardly maintain that he's a left tackle.

Depth: Kurt Vollers, Torrin Tucker, Jacob Rogers.
Grade: C-
Thank the Lord Flozell has been so durable! Vollers starts at RT so you can't really qualify him as depth and Tucker's apparent slide and Rogers' lack of PT make this a very shaky position. Rogers may have been a solid college LT, but his total inability to play ahead of Vollers and Tucker combined with his nagging injuries suggest he isn't worth his 2nd round grade. Compare for example with the rookie progress of Jumbo Elliot, another Parcells' 2nd round OT (back in 1988), and things looks even worse. Jacob Rogers has a lot to prove in the 2005 offseason.

Left Tackle Overall grade: B-

Left Guard
Starter: Larry Allen
Grade: A-
Allen regained his strength, power, and legs in 2004, and for a while during Julius Jones' return you could see his passion and ability to dominate and take over the offense rekindled. Allen's only real downside projecting into 2005 is his age and whether the potential in the Cowboy offense can re-ignite this future HOFer's passion.

Depth: Tyson Walter, Matt Lehr
Grade: B-
Walter and Lehr have managed to stick around and even remain on the active roster which says alot about BP's faith in them. Unfortunately these guys are like a spare from a Honda Civic compared with the starter. Should Allen be unavailable, neither backup offers any range or even a changeup in ability beyond fresh legs. Fortunately again, Big Larry is so durable.

Left Guard Overall grade: B+


Center
Starter: Al Johnson
Grade: B+
The only knocks on Johnson really would be inexperience and maybe a lack of power. Johnson is proving to have been worth a 2003 2nd round choice.

Depth: Tyson Walter, Matt Lehr
Grade: A
Both are former starters at this position and that helps termendously.

Center Overall grade: B+

Right Guard
Starter: Andre Gurode
Grade: D+
It's too bad the OL has to have two sides. Gurode flashed talent in 2003, but has been inconsistent and often awful since then. Maybe it's coordination wit a nigh rookie in Johnson and the player of the week at RT, but Andre has to be considered a bust at this point. Parcells said he wouldn't let Gurode fail, but unless there's magic during the 2005 offseason he's about to become a liar in this case.

Depth: Matt Lehr, Ben Noll
Grade: B-
Personally I'm holding out hope that Stephen Peterson (on IR) provides quality depth or even starts next year. Noll is a complete mystery, otherwise see left guard writeup.

Right guard overall grade: D

Right Tackle
Starter: Kurt Vollers (wow)
Grade: D-
How is this possible? Dallas knew they needed help here but after some initial misfortune in FA, the Cowboys looked solely to the draft to solve this position. Rogers' to say the least has been one of 2004's big disappointments.

Depth: Jacob Rogers, Torrin Tucker
Grade: B-
See above.

Right Tackle overall grade: F

Right Tackle overall grade: C

I say find the best offensive lineman available in free agency and make him a starter. Then continue to address the OL in the draft.

Any specific thoughts?

It's not that tough.

Move Adams to the other tackle position, let Rogers play in his old spot, let Peterman challenge Gurode and either draft or sign another lineman.

[Juke99]

It's not that tough.

Move Adams to the other tackle position, let Rogers play in his old spot, let Peterman challenge Gurode and either draft or sign another lineman.

And rehire Hudson Houck...

:)

[Jon88]

It's not that tough.

Move Adams to the other tackle position, let Rogers play in his old spot, let Peterman challenge Gurode and either draft or sign another lineman.

Why not keep Adams where he is and let Rogers play RT?

[Yakuza Rich]

The pass blocking is good. Last time I checked, we ranked 13th in pass attempts per sack. Considering that 2 teams ahead of us throw for less yards per passing attempt and the average age of the QB was 28 years old for all of the teams ahead of us, I’d say the pass blocking is very very good.

The run blocking has been the problem. We simply can’t run effectively to the right. Not all of it is the right guard and right tackle’s fault. Both Allen and Adams tend to let their guy slip by too easily on runs to the right. And because we can’t run to the right effectively, that makes us one dimensional in our running game.

And from a pass protection standpoint, Gurode, Vollers, and Tucker have been pretty good for much of the season. It’s only the last couple of games they’ve seem to have fallen apart (actually, Vollers hasn’t been bad at all)

If anything, I’m more concerned about Gurode. He simply hasn’t been the run blocker that we had hoped for and his play seems to fizzle at the end of each year. And since it's been 3 years now, chances are he'll never get much better.

I think if we can get an improvement out of Gurode or whomever plays the right guard spot and get the entire O-Line to commit less penalties, there will be some major improvement.

Other than that, the only other problem I see with the O-Line is that they lack mobility. Not one of them can pull and get into open space worth a damn.


Rich……………..

:jints:

[Yakuza Rich]

Why not keep Adams where he is and let Rogers play RT?

That would require patience. Few fans have that.


Rich......................

[Kangaroo]

Move tucker inside where he belongs; he is a goodlinemen playing out of place as a rt he is better in limited space then he is having to cover so much ground.

You notice guys like strahan Tucker did well against it is the quick guys that require quick feet.

Tucker is mobile enough to be a sweeping and pulling guard and can play RT in a pinch but is better suited for inside play.

He will sure up the RG spot or LG if we decide to part with Allen who's performance was not an A+ this year it was a B almost c+ range. Allen is not worth his current contact but is not totaly bad either if he is cut it would not suprise me.

Second I am not sold on the oline coach either

[Tricky-22]

Funny that know one is talking about replacing LA anymore. I think that Peterman will take over for Gurode. That leaves the RT postition as the only one that really needs to be addressed. Hopefully Rogers can make the adjustment in the offseason.

I also think that moving Tucker inside is a good idea. Maybe behind Allen.

[boysfanindc]

If your going to move Flozell to the right side you better ask him for a big pay cut.

[Ken]

If your going to move Flozell to the right side you better ask him for a big pay cut.
I disagree with this.

The Eagles seem to be doing fine paying Runyan a ton of money to play RT.

I don't see Flo's contract as being a handicap in this.

If it mean Rodgers playing well at LT and suring up our Qb's blind side with FLO, let's do it.

If i'm not mistaken, didn't Flo start his career at RT for us?

[Mr Cowboy]

I still can't beleive that some of you want to move Flo to RT and GIVE Rogers the starting LT spot.

Rogers is a bust......he has not shown anything and is third string behind 2 FA's. When you draft a lineman in the first or second round, you expect them to play immediately. Look at the recent past.....Flo, Page, Gurode, Johnson (had he not been injured). It complete BS that he is used to the left side. Look at Tucker, he wasn't even a Tackle in college and he made the transition to RT. Larry Allen did it his rookie year, when Williams was in the car accident.

They screwed up picking Rogers......he is a bum.

[boysfanindc]

I disagree with this.

The Eagles seem to be doing fine paying Runyan a ton of money to play RT.

I don't see Flo's contract as being a handicap in this.

If it mean Rodgers playing well at LT and suring up our Qb's blind side with FLO, let's do it.

If i'm not mistaken, didn't Flo start his career at RT for us?

Runyan got $1,000,000 bonus Adams got a $10,000,000 signing bonus.

[diehard2294]

Gee I thought we drafted Rogers to be a right tackle :rolleyes: What a brilliant move :mule:

[InmanRoshi]

Yes, if you're a 2nd round draft pick and you're not starting you're rookie year then you must be a bust.
:rolleyes:

Now Andre Gurode ... there's a bust. I think he's a goner. You can hear the tinge of resignation in Parcells voice everytime he has to talk about him. I highly doubt Peterson is ready to start next year. He's given up. I'm all for testing the free agent waters to find a good value on a veteran OG who can fill in a year or two. Someone like Marco Rivera or David Dixon.

[Chocolate Lab]

I highly doubt Peterson is ready to start next year. He's given up.

I assume you meant that Parcells has given up on Gurode?... There hasn't been any bad news on Peterman's recovery from surgery, has there?

I do agree we get a FA guard anyway. They usually aren't too expensive.

[dbair1967]

Runyan got $1,000,000 bonus Adams got a $10,000,000 signing bonus.

your numbers for Runyun are off severely...he signed a huge deal when he originally signed with Philly...in fact I think at the time he signed it he was the highest paid tackle, whether it be left or roght tackle in the NFL

David

[Verdict]

Gurode's alleged strong suit when he was drafted was his run blocking. He doesnt seem to be much of a road grader at this point. Either the draftniks were wrong or he is less than motivated.

[Verdict]

When you draft a lineman in the first or second round, you expect them to play immediately.

They screwed up picking Rogers......he is a bum.


I respectfully disagree. Offensive line and defensive line are two areas that are hard for a rookie to crack the linup due to physical development. Robert Gallery was initially thought to be a possibly #1 pick overall. He had a hard time cracking the lineup in Oakland. It just takes time for a guy to be an impact offensive lineman. You may turn out to be right, Rogers might yet be a bust, but it's a little bit early to write him off just yet.

[MichaelWinicki]

I respectfully disagree. Offensive line and defensive line are two areas that are hard for a rookie to crack the linup due to physical development. Robert Gallery was initially thought to be a possibly #1 pick overall. He had a hard time cracking the lineup in Oakland. It just takes time for a guy to be an impact offensive lineman. You may turn out to be right, Rogers might yet be a bust, but it's a little bit early to write him off just yet.


Well said.

Exactly the point.

Very few rookies can come in and make a measurable impact on the offensive line. Larry Allen was one of the few. Then you have guys like the Stone kid we drafted and lost who ended up being a pro-bowler. Oliver Ross is another guy we missed on.

[StateCollegeCowboy]

With Peterman 's injury, I don't expect him to be ready for full time duty next year. He will probably take over Allen's spot in two years. That leaves us with nobody to challenge Gurode next year.

I fully expect us to sign a Guard in FA next year to supplant Gurode. Hell, Gurode may not even make it out of TC.

[StateCollegeCowboy]

Well said.

Exactly the point.

Very few rookies can come in and make a measurable impact on the offensive line. Larry Allen was one of the few. Then you have guys like the Stone kid we drafted and lost who ended up being a pro-bowler. Oliver Ross is another guy we missed on.

I hope we keep Tucker and move him to guard. I think he will turn out to be one of those guys that we lose out on if we cut him.

[Dough Boy]

If your going to move Flozell to the right side you better ask him for a big pay cut.

As long as we are paying Jacob Rogers RT tackle money it all balances out. Your point would be correct if we were paying both Rogers and Adams LT money. We are not. Rogers is getting 2nd money. At this point, we should be indifferent.

[p1_]

If anything, I’m more concerned about Gurode. He simply hasn’t been the run blocker that we had hoped for and his play seems to fizzle at the end of each year. And since it's been 3 years now, chances are he'll never get much better.

I think if we can get an improvement out of Gurode or whomever plays the right guard spot and get the entire O-Line to commit less penalties, there will be some major improvement.

I keep wanting Bill to let Tucker give this spot a go. If Tucker is limited at tackle, perhaps he plays better in his natural (in college anyway) position inside at guard. I would be willing to bet he's as good as Gurode or better.

[p1_]

Well said.

Exactly the point.

Very few rookies can come in and make a measurable impact on the offensive line. Larry Allen was one of the few. Then you have guys like the Stone kid we drafted and lost who ended up being a pro-bowler. Oliver Ross is another guy we missed on.

Another one, starting left guard in KC (graduated from my alma mater):

54 Brian Waters
Position: G
Height: 6-3
Weight: 318
Born: 02/18/1977
College: North Texas
NFL Experience: 5

[Teague31]

SIGN WALTER JONES!!! I have been preaching this for weeks, sign him and move Flo to RT. Its called killing two birds with one stone folks. Seattle has had to franchise him the past 2 years but they won't have that luxury this year with Hassleback and Alexander also being FA's. Flo is an average LT but would be a dominant RT IMO. You can't move him for Rogers who can't even beat out Tucker and Vollers for a job. The addition of Jones would elevate the entire line- he is on par with Ogden for the best LT in the game.

[Eskimo]

Step #1 should be to get rid of Warhop. He has been terrible. This line is really playing well below their ability for the second straight year. They just don't work together well as a unit and Warhop has to bear the brunt of the burden for that.

Bring in a good OL coach. Let him to take a look at what we actually have on the roster and then decide what to do.

My take on things, though, is:

LT Rogers
LG Allen
C Johnson
RG ? (Gurode/Tucker/Peterman/Noll/FA/draft pick)
RT Flo

[Parcells Guy]

Matt Lehr was just released, thats step 1...

[p1_]

Warhop came in so highly touted. He has fallen in the eyes of most, what about the head coach? I wonder what Bill thinks about his OL coach?

I wonder what this fella is doing next year?




Name: Tony Wise
Title: Offensive Line
College: Ithaca College
NFL: 16th Season
Dolphins: Fourth Season




Tony Wise was named the Dolphins’ offensive line coach on January 15, 2001 by Head Coach Dave Wannstedt. Wise, a veteran of 15 seasons in the NFL coaching ranks, served in the same capacity with the Carolina Panthers for two seasons (1999-00) prior to his arrival in Miami.

Overall in Wise’s three seasons with the Dolphins, the team’s offensive line has yielded an average of less than 28 sacks a year and has led the way for the two highest individual single-season rushing totals in team history. The 83 sacks that the Dolphins have allowed over this three-year span is the sixth-lowest total in the NFL.

In 2002, the Dolphins’ offensive line paved the way for a running game which was first in the AFC and second in the NFL, averaging 156.4 yards per contest. The unit also allowed only 25 sacks, fourth-fewest in the AFC and seventh in the NFL. In 2001, the Dolphins’ offensive line allowed just 27 sacks, tied for fifth-fewest in the NFL.

In Wise’s first year with the Panthers, the offensive line led a rushing attack that averaged 4.3-yards per rush attempt, the fifth-best figure in the league. Prior to his stint in Carolina, Wise worked with Wannstedt for six years with the Chicago Bears. He was the team’s offensive line coach from 1993-94, and added the title of assistant head coach from 1995-98. In four of those six seasons, the Bears ranked in the top ten in the NFL in fewest sacks allowed, including a number one finish in 1995 (15 sacks).

Wise embarked on his NFL coaching career in 1989 with the Dallas Cowboys, and guided that club’s offensive line through 1992. In his final season there, Wise’s unit allowed the second-fewest sacks in the NFL (23) as Dallas captured the first of two straight Super Bowl titles.

Wise began his coaching career in 1973 tutoring the outside linebackers at Albany State. He then spent a year each at Bridgeport, Central Connecticut and Washington State, before moving on to the University of Pittsburgh, where he served from 1977-78, and worked with former Dolphins Head Coach Jimmy Johnson and Wannstedt. Wise joined the Oklahoma State staff in 1979, and had a five-year stint with the Cowboys. During that time, Johnson was the head coach and Wannstedt served on the staff as well. He then spent one year at Syracuse (1984), before re-joining Johnson and Wannstedt at the University of Miami from 1985-88, where he was part of the Hurricanes’ 1987 National Championship team.

From 1969-72, Wise was an offensive lineman at Ithaca College, where he also lettered in lacrosse. He also played on the school’s hockey team. Prior to that, he attended Shaker High School in his hometown of Latham, N.Y.

[boysfanindc]

Rogers will be the RT next year, I for the life of me can not figure out how people have already deemed him a bust.

DT & OT & G take time to develop. Can we give him one more year?

[MichaelWinicki]

SIGN WALTER JONES!!! I have been preaching this for weeks, sign him and move Flo to RT. Its called killing two birds with one stone folks. Seattle has had to franchise him the past 2 years but they won't have that luxury this year with Hassleback and Alexander also being FA's. Flo is an average LT but would be a dominant RT IMO. You can't move him for Rogers who can't even beat out Tucker and Vollers for a job. The addition of Jones would elevate the entire line- he is on par with Ogden for the best LT in the game.


And takes a huge chunk out of our cap space....

No way.

Like Parcells has said, the defense needs more fixing at this point. Big money should be spent at DT and DE. Then CB and FS need to be addressed. Then we need a reserve RB and another RB, not too mention the QB situation. Anything left over can be spent on the OL. We've already got a 2nd round OT and a 3rd OG who've yet to play a down on the offensive line.

[SuspectCorner]

don't jump the gun on rogers playing LT. teams generally want their best tackle manning that position. that would be flo. rogers can't even crack the lineup at RT. you can make all kindsa excuses for rogers but he has proven zilch. he is persona non grata as far as i'm concerned. also, the cowboys had better get a plan in place for when larry allen falls off the face of the earth. larry's legs are about gone. probowl schmobowl - another guy elected on reputation. he is not in the same zip code of where he used to play. he had a better year this year than last. but it wasn't anything to write home about. larry is getting old and has lost his base.

[Mr Cowboy]

I respectfully disagree. Offensive line and defensive line are two areas that are hard for a rookie to crack the linup due to physical development. Robert Gallery was initially thought to be a possibly #1 pick overall. He had a hard time cracking the lineup in Oakland. It just takes time for a guy to be an impact offensive lineman. You may turn out to be right, Rogers might yet be a bust, but it's a little bit early to write him off just yet.

Let me run it by you again:

Larry Allen started his rookie year at other than his natural position, RT
Flozell Adams started his rookie year at other than his natural position, RG
Solomon Page started his rookie year at other than his natural position RG
Andre Gurode started his rookie year at other than his natural position, C
Al Johnson started his second year, ( mised his rookie season with injury) every game.
Jacob Rogers, has seen the field once this year, on special teams. Can not beat out two free agents because he only plays left tackle. What a wuss!

And Gallery has started every game this year, and at other than his natural position.

Why is it our players need time to develop and other teams players are ready to go?

[p1_]

Let me run it by you again:

Larry Allen started his rookie year at other than his natural position, RT
Flozell Adams started his rookie year at other than his natural position, RG
Solomon Page started his rookie year at other than his natural position RG
Andre Gurode started his rookie year at other than his natural position, C
Al Johnson started his second year, ( mised his rookie season with injury) every game.
Jacob Rogers, has seen the field once this year, on special teams. Can not beat out two free agents because he only plays left tackle. What a wuss!

And Gallery has started every game this year, and at other than his natural position.

Why is it our players need time to develop and other teams players are ready to go?

Plus I have heard time and time again that top tier linemen are the most readily inserted into the game without extended transitioning. He needs to be on the field, whether its guard or tackle. There are opportunities present today, if he were able. If Tucker's was capable as a rook, Rogers should be.

[The Curly One]

Flosmell B+ well that is a little optimistic, he has had a bunch of penalties this year. I do agree moving him to the right side might be better.

Al Johnson B+ Agreed

Gurode D+ He is not that bad, he has been quietly doing his job this year. Now last year he blocked good but had way too many penalties. He is doing better there now.

Right Tackle needs work - Agreed - Put Flosmell over there.

Where I completly disagree is with the Left Guard position Larry Allen. He gets beat almost every single passing play and is left there looking stupid while the play goes on around him. If I bought the team I would cut LA so fast it would make your head spin. And I guarentee you nobody will pick him up. He is useless, all of the other teams know that. That is the most useless starter on the entire team with the possible exception of Eddie George. Even Vinny is better. In fact if we cut Vinny, Eddie and LA today they would never play a single down again in the NFL. They are not good enough at that age to play on any other team. Fact. They are not good enough to play for the Cowboys and they are losers.
Nothing good will happen for our Qb until we put a blocker in the hole that Larry Allen opens for the defense. That is also where Troy Hambrick is really missed because he did an excellent job of stopping or slowing LA's missed blocks. Sometimes he ran the ball to.
Watch next week on the passing plays as the defense runs over, around and through LA to get to our QB. Watch as they make LA their Beeatch. Torrin Tucker misses a block and everyone wants his head. LA misses a block and nobody says anything.
Curly

[SuspectCorner]

Flosmell...

Curly

that's a pretty good one curly. somebody should start a contest thread dedicated to disparaging nicknames for some of our LEAST popular/favorite players. it might be pretty funny and it would probably be a healthy vent for all the steam under collars around here lately. no player, coach, or owner should be considered "off limits". but they MUST have been with the cowboys at some point this season.

[Jimz31]

Let me run it by you again:

Larry Allen started his rookie year at other than his natural position, RT
Flozell Adams started his rookie year at other than his natural position, RG
Solomon Page started his rookie year at other than his natural position RG
Andre Gurode started his rookie year at other than his natural position, C
Al Johnson started his second year, ( mised his rookie season with injury) every game.
Jacob Rogers, has seen the field once this year, on special teams. Can not beat out two free agents because he only plays left tackle. What a wuss!

And Gallery has started every game this year, and at other than his natural position.

Why is it our players need time to develop and other teams players are ready to go?

Cuz we are the Dallas Frickin' Cowboys....we are like fine wine. The longer the player sits around, the better he gets.....just ask BP. That's his philosophy with the QB position at least. :eek: :D

[Mr Cowboy]

Cuz we are the Dallas Frickin' Cowboys....we are like fine wine. The longer the player sits around, the better he gets.....just ask BP. That's his philosophy with the QB position at least. :eek: :D


You got a point there...........

[jdnalls]

Why not keep Adams where he is and let Rogers play RT?
Hmm... maybe it could be because Rogers sucks at RT.